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#13301 Tarzaan

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:52

Ah, once again I'm in the minority. Blocking isn't racing to me. 'Gentlemen racing'? Why, how old-fashioned of a driver to follow the rules or allow a superior car to pass. Or queer! :rolleyes: If that was exciting, then you must have loved Bernoldi holding up Coulthard for most of the Monaco race. Ex-citing!
If MS and LH were battling for every corner, THAT would have been exciting. Blocking - ugh! Brawn wouldn't have been on the radio if these were legal moves. I'm not much of a Ham fan. But MS makes him look like a choir boy! And, again, like Earnhart, it bothers me more because they both had tremendous talent, and tarnished their legacy with dirty racing.

And to those who say DRS has ruined F1 - we all have our beliefs. To me, it is a simple mechanism to overcome turbulence, and allow passing. If the passed car is truly superior, it will repass on the next lap. If you are not within a second, it doesn't affect the race. Artificial? Maybe, but it's far from the pointless Nascar-type passing. I'm loving it!



Senna-Mansell Monaco 92...

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#13302 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:54

...and the difference in gearing helped a bunch!

Yeah the Merc was weak in the corners and faster on the straights, and the Mac had the better cornering speed but bounced off the limiter once in the slipstream. Both drivers had opposite setups that made this sort of battle possible. Great stuff.

#13303 sharo

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:04


All the time I was thinking how Michael manages to keep the car on track through the curves at that speed and so little rear end downforce.
Both drivers drove at top level, I am not a Hamilton fan but always give him credit when he shows his abilities to drive at the edge too.

Edited by sharo, 13 September 2011 - 08:04.


#13304 Craven Morehead

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:10

Yeah the Merc was weak in the corners and faster on the straights, and the Mac had the better cornering speed but bounced off the limiter once in the slipstream. Both drivers had opposite setups that made this sort of battle possible. Great stuff.


Sums it up nicely. :up:

#13305 KiloWatt

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:16

He sure did but we need to also recognise Hamilton's skill in attacking on Sunday. He gave Schumacher alot to think about and showed he wasn't afraid to try a move when he needed to. Schumacher defended hard and we were gifted such a great battle IMO. :)


You speak the truth. We can all agree that there's only a handfull of drivers with which you can race quite this hard. You certainly wouldn't do it with either Fag packets or, heaven forbid, Kobayashi.

#13306 KiloWatt

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:17

DC: Michael took is as far as he could.
http://planetf1.com/...Far-As-He-Could

#13307 ali.unal

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:20

DC: Michael took is as far as he could.
http://planetf1.com/...Far-As-He-Could

Interesting. He did exactly the opposite in BBC Forum and during coverage.

#13308 penta1998

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:22

DC: Michael took is as far as he could.
http://planetf1.com/...Far-As-He-Could


Speaking of PF1, http://planet-f1.com...-Winners-Losers got me laughing. MS is one of their losers of the race. Now how is that possible.

#13309 ivand911

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:33

Speaking of PF1, http://planet-f1.com...-Winners-Losers got me laughing. MS is one of their losers of the race. Now how is that possible.

Read the comments, fans are not stupid. They tell AD what they think about him.


#13310 Clatter

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:34

Speaking of PF1, http://planet-f1.com...-Winners-Losers got me laughing. MS is one of their losers of the race. Now how is that possible.


If you bothered to read what they have written then perhaps you would understand.

#13311 ivand911

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:38

If you bothered to read what they have written then perhaps you would understand.

He is not the only one who don't understand. 90% from the comments are negative about the article. Fans want what MS give them. Period. Maybe you can understand that.


#13312 black magic

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 08:58

well at least should be ranked up there with arnoux and villeneuve in france way back when

#13313 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:13

Anyone have a video of his start onboard or his overtake on Alonso?

#13314 Frans

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:17

MS is one of their losers of the race. Now how is that possible.



Well, let me explain. If it was in it's Ferrari or Benneton era, he wouldn't neven bother to finish in that position, would park his car, be grumpy and very dissatisfied.

Now at Mercedes, he smiles like a Farmer with tooth-pain, and waves and it happy (??) with his 5th position. hehehehe, ...

And as a matter of fact. didn't he drive in 2nd place of the race at some point. ? Finishing 5th after that is kinda sucky. I mean, didn't he drop 4 places from there? And he still is lucky those 4 competitors from lap one were eliminated, Rosberg would be easily in front of him if I watch the rest of the results of this season so far, and so would Petrov. And maybe even more drivers. But hey, have a good time with that unbelievable, incredible, AMAZING 5th place. (pfffffft, gna gnagna)

But also, Schumacher got two warnings over the radio, regarding his strange and dangerous driving. FROM HIS TEAM BOSS, hahahaha, like a little kid what is doing something he is not allowed to do. While he is the oldest fart out there! He should be ashamed of himself. But he doesn't have those DNA gene's in his body, so don't worry, he won't.

Like a little kiddo, he told the media "Race Control didn't give me the call. So it was all ok." No duude, your DADDY gave you the call TWICE, that's much better eh? HAHA. Michael will never change, that's for sure. And even in that slow Mercedes car, he can be a danger for the drivers, AND the people who come and watch the Grand Prix. Beware if he is around, danger lurks all around ya! With Michael in the race, a chance of a lose flying F1 car-part is ALWAYS there!


Jos in the Arrows performed better than Schumacher in the Mercedes, and the Arrows was NOT the 4th best team on the grid, NEVER was. KaTjinga!

Edited by Frans, 13 September 2011 - 09:23.


#13315 GoRacing

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:26

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/58826.html

Jenson should just shut up. He was so far behind Lewis and MS that he could not have possibly known what was happening. He was just waiting (as he normally does) for Lewis and MS to dice it out and when MS' tyres were shot and he was about to pit, Jenson passes him and then talks as though it was the greatest pass of all time. What bullsh*t.

#13316 Frans

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:51

Didn't the McLaren boys showed "Old Number 7" who's fastest when it counts most? At the Finish?

Might the fastest driver be in front, so to speak. :wave:

#13317 salamin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 09:53

good for you chubby

#13318 puxanando

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:04

Schumi moves on fernando

#13319 ivand911

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:12

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/58826.html

Jenson should just shut up. He was so far behind Lewis and MS that he could not have possibly known what was happening. He was just waiting (as he normally does) for Lewis and MS to dice it out and when MS' tyres were shot and he was about to pit, Jenson passes him and then talks as though it was the greatest pass of all time. What bullsh*t.

Forget him. We know him how he drove all race behind MS in Bahrain 2010, also Spain 2010. He didn't overtake him then. He can overtake with DRS only. And we remember him before 2009. He didn't show then even the half of what MS is showing now.

Edited by ivand911, 13 September 2011 - 10:15.


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#13320 Beyond

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:13

guys I was there in monza near the first corner. michael was fantastic, he managed to block every attempt to pass by lewis and he was braking even later than him. superb race.

#13321 Beyond

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:15

Didn't the McLaren boys showed "Old Number 7" who's fastest when it counts most? At the Finish?

Might the fastest driver be in front, so to speak. :wave:

I'm sorry but lewis was heavily beaten this time. a fantastic battle and michael showed him how to resist. lewis was really pissed off after the race because he couldnt make a move and he got passed 2 times by michael.

#13322 anachronox

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:17

Didn't the McLaren boys showed "Old Number 7" who's fastest when it counts most? At the Finish?

Might the fastest driver be in front, so to speak. :wave:


Not yet, its been 11 years since Mclaren boys are trying to win a Championship! :blush:

#13323 Clatter

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:17

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/58826.html

Jenson should just shut up. He was so far behind Lewis and MS that he could not have possibly known what was happening. He was just waiting (as he normally does) for Lewis and MS to dice it out and when MS' tyres were shot and he was about to pit, Jenson passes him and then talks as though it was the greatest pass of all time. What bullsh*t.


And yet another clueless post from someone who I doubt has ever sat in an F1 car let alone drive one. :rolleyes:

#13324 salamin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:22

11 mins of pure racing!

#13325 anachronox

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:24

And yet another clueless post from someone who I doubt has ever sat in an F1 car let alone drive one. :rolleyes:


How is your recovery going Robert? Hope to see you back in the F1 car soon :wave:

#13326 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:25

And yet another clueless post from someone who I doubt has ever sat in an F1 car let alone drive one. :rolleyes:


Of course. Jenson's comments have nothing to do with the McLaren PR machine kicking in. Funny thing to read the press conference and then that interview in the Sun.



#13327 salamin

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:27

Schumi moves on fernando


onboard

#13328 Clatter

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:29

Of course. Jenson's comments have nothing to do with the McLaren PR machine kicking in. Funny thing to read the press conference and then that interview in the Sun.


Comments often change when they have had time to sit back and reflect, but to suggest JB couldn't see what was happening and had no idea what was going on is simply laughable.

Just for the record before any accusations are pasted around, I didn't have any real problems with MS's driving.

#13329 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:38

Comments often change when they have had time to sit back and reflect, but to suggest JB couldn't see what was happening and had no idea what was going on is simply laughable.


I was talking generally about Jenson's comments.

And what could possibly change his view after the press conference? He witnessed the fight for 10 laps or so. He knew at that moment if what Michael did was illegal or not.

For me it's nothing more than McL PR to protect the blessed son.

#13330 ivand911

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 10:39

From PF1, full MS -team radio:
http://planetf1.com/...er-Of-Toad-Hall

"Engineer: Michael, we're concerned you might get a penalty for blocking.

Michael: Why?

Engineer: Because Race Control just warned us you were blocking.

Michael: Blocking? Why - it's my own team-mate?

Engineer: No, it's Hamilton. That yellow helmet is Hamilton not Nico.

Michael: Oh (pause) I can't see anything in my mirrors.

Engineer: Are the mirrors broken?

Michael: No, somebody has stuck a nice photo of Kobayashi in the left mirror and Petrov in the right mirror.

Engineer: Can you repeat that?

Michael: Only joking - hang on a second, we're coming up to Ascari ...Yes! And again he fails to take The Schum! Get in there mein Sohn!

Engineer: Michael, you have to stop blocking.

Michael: We are having a nice battle.

Engineer: Charlie doesn't see it that way.

Michael: You know I wonder if I can get him onto the grass this lap...

Engineer: If you don't stop blocking I'm going to get Ross.

Michael: Not listening!

Ross: Michael, this is Ross. You have to leave room for Lewis at Ascari

Michael: There is plenty of room.

Ross: You need to leave a car's width of tarmac, not just a car's width between yours and the barrier.

Michael: This really is a nice lot of fun.

Ross: Michael, you have to leave Lewis room, if you collide-

Michael: He'll get the blame. He always gets the blame for everything. It won't be a problem.

Ross: We had enough trouble with Rubens last year.

Michael: Schum, Schum, Schum Schum, Schuuuuuuuuuum!

Ross: If you don't move over I'll tell people about 1994.

Michael: Er...you know, I think my tyres are going off.

[Ends]"
:p

Edited by ivand911, 13 September 2011 - 10:39.


#13331 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:12

From clip the apex:

Most overtaking moves (season):

Jenson Button 67
Michael Schumacher 59
Mark Webber 58
Felipe Massa 55
Sebastien Buemi 52

Of course, Button has 26 from Canada.

#13332 arknor

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:15

From clip the apex:

Most overtaking moves (season):

Jenson Button 67
Michael Schumacher 59
Mark Webber 58
Felipe Massa 55
Sebastien Buemi 52

Of course, Button has 26 from Canada.

they wont count first lap overtakes as no other site ever has..

schumacher has 35overtakes on the first lap so far

#13333 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:17

From PF1, full MS -team radio:
http://planetf1.com/...er-Of-Toad-Hall

Very funny :lol:
The sad part is the comments on that page from a bunch of whiners who don't have a sense of humour. Give over guys and have a laugh. :)

#13334 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:33

"Michael: Only joking - hang on a second, we're coming up to Ascari ...Yes! And again he fails to take The Schum! Get in there mein Sohn!"

That is exactly how I imagine him to be in the helmet

Edited by DutchCruijff, 13 September 2011 - 11:42.


#13335 Sakae

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 11:37

Very well said. It was beautiful to watch. As someone else said, MS showed more spirit than the entire grid combined. People can say what they want, you don't win 7WDC by being a pussy and a pushover. MS did exactly what he had to do. On a track where the W02s weaknesses were less evident, Lewis got to know the real Schumacher. And he finally met up with someone that gave him exactly what he's been giving to the rest of the field.



Not even close. Lewis has to hope for Michael to stay in a lesser car, because in equal machinery Lewis would end up in tears; at least that's the feeling I have.

Edited by Sakae, 13 September 2011 - 11:38.


#13336 Jordana

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:16

Not even close. Lewis has to hope for Michael to stay in a lesser car, because in equal machinery Lewis would end up in tears; at least that's the feeling I have.



And not only Lewis, few others would have the time of their lives if they had to fight Schumi in similar machinery! And wait and see if Mercedes can build a good car for next season, if they do... We'll have fun... :p

#13337 KiloWatt

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 12:31

Not even close. Lewis has to hope for Michael to stay in a lesser car, because in equal machinery Lewis would end up in tears; at least that's the feeling I have.


Not sure with which part you disagree. I'm sort of implying the same thing.

#13338 anachronox

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 13:11

Not even close. Lewis has to hope for Michael to stay in a lesser car, because in equal machinery Lewis would end up in tears; at least that's the feeling I have.


Surprisingly Lewis has kept quiet about the Monza weekend, I am guessing he must be feeling embarassed that he couldnt pass Michael for all those laps!

I only wish that Mercedes builds a capable car next year!

#13339 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 13:34

I'm sorry but lewis was heavily beaten this time. a fantastic battle and michael showed him how to resist. lewis was really pissed off after the race because he couldnt make a move and he got passed 2 times by michael.

Yeah but Lewis passed Michael twice aswell and finished the race ahead of him so in my book Lewis won in the end and collected more points out of the race. Both drivers drove their socks off but all this criticism of Lewis not being able to overtake is ridiculous. He did overtake and yes he did make errors previously. It was an exciting race but yet again there is this need to make one driver out to be the loser. Get over it.

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#13340 z2z

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 13:55

Surprisingly Lewis has kept quiet about the Monza weekend, I am guessing he must be feeling embarassed that he couldnt pass Michael for all those laps!

thr nothing to be embarrassed about. I think it is positive from Lewis. :up:

All Hail Kaiser :smoking:

#13341 dynomoman2

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 14:01

thr nothing to be embarrassed about. I think it is positive from Lewis. :up:

All Hail Kaiser :smoking:



People want Michael to just pull over and let someone by? F1 is a girls sport these days. Michael is a true racer, that's why he makes it hard to overtake him. F1 will die if it keeps going along the lines of push a button and overtake and don't get in my way, boo hoo. :wave:

Edited by dynomoman2, 13 September 2011 - 14:01.


#13342 EdwardCullen

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 14:02

Yeah but Lewis passed Michael twice aswell and finished the race ahead of him so in my book Lewis won in the end and collected more points out of the race. Both drivers drove their socks off but all this criticism of Lewis not being able to overtake is ridiculous. He did overtake and yes he did make errors previously. It was an exciting race but yet again there is this need to make one driver out to be the loser. Get over it.

And Michael did overtake him back twice on track aswell and once out of the pits and that too with a vastly inferiror car to Mclaren's WC contenting car! :up:

#13343 sharo

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 14:30

thr nothing to be embarrassed about. I think it is positive from Lewis. :up:

All Hail Kaiser :smoking:

Me too. It takes two to tango. They fought at close distance some 20 laps without crashing out and into each other. And thanks to the combination of set-ups of their cars on Sunday without great advantage for one of them. Nothing to be embarrassed about.

#13344 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 15:22

Yeah but Lewis passed Michael twice aswell and finished the race ahead of him so in my book Lewis won in the end and collected more points out of the race. Both drivers drove their socks off but all this criticism of Lewis not being able to overtake is ridiculous. He did overtake and yes he did make errors previously. It was an exciting race but yet again there is this need to make one driver out to be the loser. Get over it.

I agree, both of them really raced hard and lewis won the battle.
it must have cost him some more time/positions than the ideal but he's not a machine and he took a more cool headed approach.
I think both of them really enjoyed the fight.

#13345 TheBunk

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 15:31

Me too. It takes two to tango. They fought at close distance some 20 laps without crashing out and into each other. And thanks to the combination of set-ups of their cars on Sunday without great advantage for one of them. Nothing to be embarrassed about.


In the quest of promoting F1, I wish Mclaren, Hamilton, DC and Brundle would be so cheerful too. Like you said, nothing to be embarrassed about. More, Hamilton wanted an epic fight with Schumacher, now he has one for the files. Good for him.

#13346 Raelene

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 22:35

Yeah but Lewis passed Michael twice aswell and finished the race ahead of him so in my book Lewis won in the end and collected more points out of the race. Both drivers drove their socks off but all this criticism of Lewis not being able to overtake is ridiculous. He did overtake and yes he did make errors previously. It was an exciting race but yet again there is this need to make one driver out to be the loser. Get over it.



I think you have been very fair in your assessment on this race, but I did laugh at the highlighted bits :wave:

#13347 fieraku

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 23:03


Before Schumacher came back into f1, Hamilton always said that Schumacher was the driver he wanted to race against, and that even included Senna, and now he's raced with him, he'll value that Monza race more then many would believe in the years ahead,
even Alonso knows and recently talked about Schumaher's 20th anniversary, that it was Alonso's on track tusssles with Schumacher, that will largely be remembered, Hamilton knows the same, and so does Schumacher, clearly enjoyed racing with a fellow racer on a level that isn't possible with most other drivers.

My first thought when I was seeing the battle. "Wish granted". He can show it to his grand kids one day, look granpa had one of the most intense battles of 2011 versus one of the Greats.

To all Schumi fans saying Lewis got owned,shame on you. What you needed to see "that" to still believe the old man got it given the right circumstances? Did ya'll miss Canada?

#13348 fieraku

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 23:15

From PF1, full MS -team radio:
http://planetf1.com/...er-Of-Toad-Hall


Michael: No, somebody has stuck a nice photo of Kobayashi in the left mirror and Petrov in the right mirror.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Story of MS and his comeback.He finally gets to battle the other guy that can battle to the limit and everyone is mad/sad. I seriously think the MS/LH battle will be talked for ages.
PURE RACING!!!

#13349 Raelene

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 01:03

Ivan

that PF1 radio transmission was actually quite funny :clap: :clap:

#13350 Kucki

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 17:48

From watching his whole F1 career, his fights against Senna, Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Alonso and other Champions, his struggle at Ferrari and then multiple titles with them. To his retirement and then this comeback.

Schumachers second F1 career always seemed a little tentative to me, he seemed just a tiny bit too much relaxed. As he could not impress over Rosberg and until his critics got louder and louder, it seemed like there was no way Schumachers comeback could do anything but disapoint in the publics eye. It was almost like he was expected to come back and win right away or soon after.

Maybe even because of these expectations, his approach and driving didnt seem as hungry and uncompromising as it was in his first career. Although it seemed to me personally like he was doing a "good" job so far, his famous critics got louder and louder, until it reached a point this summer, where it seemingly came from all the directions, calls for retirement!

With his back against the wall, his attitude seemed to change, it was almost like, now he got something to prove again!

His great drive in Spa and Monza, looked not only impressive but totally determined and most of all fearless. The way he closed the door on Hamilton at Curva Grande... he knew if Hamilton would not back out it would be him who would hit the wall hard. The way he defended with a knife between his teeth was the good old Schumacher we love to hate. Something changed in his attitude over this summer break, his great comeback at Spa from the back of the field, and his impressive drive at Monza, gets you excited about whats next to come from him. Even as a not-Schumacher Fan, a win or even a 8th title with Mercedes in his age and in this era would be you know how historically amazing.

Edited by Kucki, 14 September 2011 - 17:53.