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#13401 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:25

Yes, but as Webber doesnt have a clue how to write, its very likely Benson summed up the points he wanted to mention and asked Webber for his opinion. Very easy to spritz your own agenda then, if you pardon me the Bruno-slang.


How do you know wether Webber can write or not, very arrogant and presumptuous.

That is not how the BBC works. You could probably get away with it once but you'd be found out very quickly by peer review and sign off authority. The BBC is very risk averse when it comes to assigned opinion.

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#13402 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:27

Good, so both Benson and Webber are tossers. :rotfl:

#13403 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:34

How do you know wether Webber can write or not, very arrogant and presumptuous.

That is not how the BBC works. You could probably get away with it once but you'd be found out very quickly by peer review and sign off authority. The BBC is very risk averse when it comes to assigned opinion.



Well, perhaps it is but I think we can safely assume Webber isnt settling down an hour behind his PC to do an attempt at article writing for the BBC nor is he known for holding a degree in journalistic skills. Besides, the article mentions that he was talking to Andrew Benson.

And Im sure the BBC is very risk averse on assigned opinions, that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.

What we do know is that Benson isnt the most unbiased motorsport journalist, and hence my and other posters scepticism.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 September 2011 - 13:36.


#13404 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:40

Well, perhaps it is but I think we can safely assume Webber isnt settling down an hour behind his PC to do an attempt at article writing for the BBC nor is he known for holding a degree in journalistic skills. Besides, the article mentions that he was talking to Andrew Benson.

And Im sure the BBC is very risk averse on assigned opinions, that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.

What we do know is that Benson isnt the most unbiased motorsport journalist, and hence my and other posters scepticism.


I said it sounds like dictation.

It still has to reflect the opinions of MW, otherwise you would find very quickly one of these;

A u turn and apology
The end of the MW column
The end of benson.

Why would benson want to discuss tennis or qpr?

#13405 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:47

that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.


Benson; "Mark, this is what you think, m'kay?"

#13406 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:53

I said it sounds like dictation.

It still has to reflect the opinions of MW, otherwise you would find very quickly one of these;

A u turn and apology
The end of the MW column
The end of benson.

Why would benson want to discuss tennis or qpr?



Well sure but you can ask about how he sees the schumacher incident in a lot of ways, all of wich would produce different answers, no?

Do you think the audience saw a nice battle?

Do you think this is good for F1?

Does this spell the return of Schumacher?

How do you rate Schumacher and Hamilton?

or

Did you think the moves warranted a penalty?

Did Schumacher cross a line?

Did it ruin Hamiltons race?

Was it ruining an otherwise good battle?

Etc. Many, many ways to spin this without harming the BBC, Bensons or Webbers feelings.


#13407 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 15:04

Well sure but you can ask about how he sees the schumacher incident in a lot of ways, all of wich would produce different answers, no?

Do you think the audience saw a nice battle?

Do you think this is good for F1?

Does this spell the return of Schumacher?

How do you rate Schumacher and Hamilton?

or

Did you think the moves warranted a penalty?

Did Schumacher cross a line?

Did it ruin Hamiltons race?

Was it ruining an otherwise good battle?

Etc. Many, many ways to spin this without harming the BBC, Bensons or Webbers feelings.


No because it's not sustainable, you could only do it once otherwise...

"Mate it's Mark Webber, you made me look like a bitter dick (or sycophant), if you do that again that's the end of the column. ok?....drrrrrrrrr."

BBC editors beat up on Benson for being unprofessional.

What you're proposing is that you can see something that whole of the BBC editing and peer review process can't see.

or it's not there?

p.s. we're right on the edge of O.T., will we get referred to stewards or just a warning?

Edited by Number62, 15 September 2011 - 15:08.


#13408 AirWebber

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 16:15

Mark Webber is a joke. After what he did to Massa he have come to talk about MS driving, when they even didn't touch with Lewis. :down: I have other opinion about Australians.

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#13409 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 16:58

No because it's not sustainable, you could only do it once otherwise...

"Mate it's Mark Webber, you made me look like a bitter dick (or sycophant), if you do that again that's the end of the column. ok?....drrrrrrrrr."

BBC editors beat up on Benson for being unprofessional.

What you're proposing is that you can see something that whole of the BBC editing and peer review process can't see.

or it's not there?

p.s. we're right on the edge of O.T., will we get referred to stewards or just a warning?


Youre right, its ot but i will say this as the last mention: it is sustainable if it were the true words of Webber. He doesnt seem like a guy making a problem over big words. Likewise the endorsing of Alonso's move while Vettel made an official complaint could be making Webber look like s cry baby. So no, lots of different ways to spin the article without creating tensions.

And I do wonder if bbc-editors check what Benson writes. His love in, straight adressing drivers instead of the readers wouldv been deleted by any self respecting broadcast organisation.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 September 2011 - 16:59.


#13410 baddog

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 22:54

We are a long way off 'Michael Schumacher' as a topic here.. but Ill give my ten-pence worth. Mark has turned in and taken out several drivers, and is one of the more aggressive drivers we have seen in the last decade. These comments are grossly hypocritical, Michael did nothing on Sunday that Mark wouldn't do in a second.

#13411 SeanValen

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 00:26

We are a long way off 'Michael Schumacher' as a topic here.. but Ill give my ten-pence worth. Mark has turned in and taken out several drivers, and is one of the more aggressive drivers we have seen in the last decade. These comments are grossly hypocritical, Michael did nothing on Sunday that Mark wouldn't do in a second.



Webber crashed out of the Monza showpiece after just four laps, following a collision with Felipe Massa - a result that virtually ends his chance of catching Red Bull team-mate Sebastian Vettel in the Drivers' Standings.

The attention of the race was oin Michael, people enjoyed seeing him race Hamilton-who has been the racer since he left, and put on some moves that Ham and others have tried and even gotten away with worse.

Webber basically has come to a deadend, last year he was able to get on top of the car for some gps, but so did Trulli against Alonso in 2004, HHF did a decent 1999 season, Webber igrew up watching Schumacher, and admitted recording Schumacher's wins and taping over races he lost, he is a MS fan, and making him the subject of his comments lately, just shows his own inconsistent f1 career, he is struggeling even in the top car of the year to show Vettel some sort of fight, it's not good for him, especially if he's going to be ending his career with redbull.

When Schumacher is the attention, all other drivers who perform badly like Webber hide behind the collective media pinpoint of Schumacher, when this happens, Schuey's had a strong race for sure. Just like old times with DC and Jacques having shots at Mike in the press, then failing in races. :drunk:

This is interesting, because of this is what happens if Mercedes can hang at the front in the future more, then the legend that is Schumacher bascially makes everyone else lesser of a story, so it would make sense to join in collective media praise/or bashing of Schumacher, be just like old times, you can sense that returned in Monza, that Schumacher-Hamilton attention got everyone on the edge of their seats, no one was interested in another vettel or webber performance, a ferrari win would of been nice with Alonso, but the Hamilton and Schumacher thing gave something fans have been wanting since Michael retired, a up front tussle with pretty much this generations arguebly's most talented-Hamilton-the yellow Senna helment just makes it almost as close as you'll get to some sort of Senna/Schumacher duel, and Ham is a great qualifyer just like Senna, so it's almost the next best thing, what's Mark Webber's race compared to that? His race was bascially rubbish, and I don't think he has the words for himself, talking Schuey is more easier, why not.

If Vettel won the race and Schumacher was in the redbull, and crashed Massa out, I'm sure the retirement rreaction would be sky high for Michael, but not webber. Webberi is getting away with some pretty dismal performances this year, and I was one of the fans of his performances last year, I think he's inconsistent now and again, and has occassional rounds of top performances, he reminds me a little of David Couthard now in his latter years, as Kimi came to Mclaren, and the rules/cars changed, DC sort of faded out, and that was with mclarens not even going for wins some of the time, webber is in a top car. Schumacher has been out of the sport and came back-relearn, what's Webber's reasonings. he was never consistent top performer, only 2010 reshaped people's perceptions of him, but not every seasn can keep that up.

Edited by SeanValen, 16 September 2011 - 01:00.


#13412 ivand911

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 13:10

http://i30.fastpic.r...8ad93e28c07.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic..._dtm_2011-1.jpg
http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!


#13413 GreyArrow

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 13:16

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Brilliant - not seen those before.

#13414 zelpre

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:00

hope schumi gets on seventh place in WDC after Singapore.

#13415 arknor

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:17

hope schumi gets on seventh place in WDC after Singapore.

strong track for nico so might be a tough one for msc

#13416 Number62

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:34

What does this mean ( twitter, but I can't find the original source)?

47% de Los alemanes opinan que Schumacher debiria retirarse



#13417 Spa95

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:04

What does this mean ( twitter, but I can't find the original source)?

47% de Los alemanes opinan que Schumacher debiria retirarse

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.

Edited by Spa95, 16 September 2011 - 15:05.


#13418 Number62

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:11

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.


Thanks, looks like it should say end 2012 anyway so no biggie.

#13419 AirWebber

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:18

http://www.focus.de/...aid_665914.html

Google

SID Poll: Schumacher to quit
Almost every other sports fan in Germany leads to the seven-time Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher after a withdrawal of the current season.

47.2 percent recommend the 42-year-old who quit his motor racing career to become final. The outcome of a representative survey of market and opinion research institute promit on behalf of the Sports Information Service (SID) as part of the SID monitors sport. The contract with Mercedes Champions of the record runs from late 2012.

Almost one third (32.2 percent), however want to Schumi, currently eighth in the championship look overall, even in the coming year on the Formula 1 Grand Prix circuits.
A change in the DTM to his brother Ralf Schumacher in favor of just 8.5 percent.

Edited by AirWebber, 16 September 2011 - 15:19.


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#13420 Tardis40

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 16:08

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.


That's 47% of the Germans who allegedly took the survey, not 47% of all Germans. And one whale of a sloppy photoshop on the picture of Michael LOL

Edited by Tardis40, 16 September 2011 - 16:09.


#13421 spacekid

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 17:26

I really don't understand these continual calls for Schumi to retire. In the past half a season or so he's shown that he's really getting to grips with being back in the sport. In Monaco, Canada, Spa and Monza we've seen some really strong driving, I dare say as good as anyone could manage in the Mercedes.

Sure there's been some wobbly moments getting back into the groove, and the car is a bit rubbish, but Michael is far from embarrasing himself at the moment. In fact I'd say he'd be rather happier with his performances at the moment than Webber or Massa, who both occupy race seats higher up the grid.

#13422 Rol

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 18:00

This German poll is practically good for nothing. If you wish I can create a netpoll still today, on which 98,3% of respondants will say Michael Schumacher should be the next US President.

What is much more telling, is Michael being all over the media for weeks now. Vettel has practically become the youngest double-WCC, with a superb drive in Monza, and still attention is focusing on Michael primarely.

And why? Beside Michael being a living F1 legend, his driving in Spa and Monza showed a lot for those who have an eye for F1.
He was so much more relaxed and focused then before, no sign of pushing over the limit or deconcentration. His drive was cool, tactical and precise. Michael is mentally back to the top!

What made the difference? We can only guess, maybe Spa and Monza favoring MB-GP was a factor, but I suspect more significant development behind. Maybe their project with Mercedes is more secure for some reason. I would not rule out a contract extension for 2013, and a significant budget increase from Mercedes side, including some personell, who are key in the eyes of Micheal.

We will see.






#13423 zelpre

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:51

Lauda doffs famous cap to Schumacher

"I take my cap off to his performances of the last two races"



http://motorsport.ne...cher,30080.html

#13424 cheapracer

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:00

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season.


Did they ask Michael?




#13425 Rol

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:11

http://motorsport.ne...cher,30080.html


thanks for the article. :wave:
Lauda's opinion is really worth to pay attention to. He is one of the few out there, who are outspoken and equally ready to praise or criticize Michael.

#13426 cheapracer

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:22

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html

#13427 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:54

that was 2004, when montoya and schumacher had this type of fight each race.
some people (including brundle) have forgot what hard racing is.
hopefully hamilton and schumacher will have more fights like the one in monza. they are 2 fantastic racers

#13428 Number62

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:56

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html


What?

#13429 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 14:11

he considers pushing somebody out as clean racing and blames the driver going for room that was not there

he clearly forgot about this with lewis's move

#13430 Number62

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 14:20

he considers pushing somebody out as clean racing and blames the driver going for room that was not there

he clearly forgot about this with lewis's move


He compliments Schumacher for defending by STAYING ON THE RACING LINE. Confirming;

1. The ability to race hard AND fair (even for Scumacher)
2. Brundles commentative integrity

Bravo.

#13431 sharo

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 15:56

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html


OT: Thanks for the link, Oh! the sound of V10 in anger ...

But it is clearly seen how in 6 years the perception of tough racing has faded into something castrated .

#13432 Craven Morehead

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 16:26

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html


Absolutely agree with your observation. :up:

Also hilarious to see DC in classic form outbraking himself, running into the back of people, and mowing the infield grass. :lol:

#13433 TheBunk

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 17:11

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html



Great spot. Expose the double standard commentators +1 :up:

#13434 TheBunk

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 17:11

OT: Thanks for the link, Oh! the sound of V10 in anger ...



Yup. Some sound.

#13435 Number62

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 18:19

Great spot. Expose the double standard commentators +1 :up:


http://www.bbc.co.uk...ss-introduction

Maybe you should address your concerns to the director general and ofcom. I expect they could do with a good laugh.

#13436 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 18:36

OT: Thanks for the link, Oh! the sound of V10 in anger ...

But it is clearly seen how in 6 years the perception of tough racing has faded into something castrated .

how many penalties were awarded back then?? how many stop&go, drivethrough whatever (for racing, not for speeding, jump starting, yellow flags etc).
I can only remember one which was a terrible call (against montoya in a fight with schumacher, malaysia I think)

today there isn't a race where somebody in a field doesn't get a penalty for "causing an accident".

and what is really pissing off is that lewis is a great racer just because he goes for gaps that sometimes aren't there...or people are not so determined to keep him behind. he got into trouble in canada twice..against jenson crashing and against michael on braking for the hairpin (I think that was a very hard move by michael).

he knows and accepts there is this risk. people love him for that...michael is the same type of racer. very hard racers have a lot of fans and enemies but I would expect fans of hard racing to understand hard defending as well as hard attacking.

#13437 arknor

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 01:22

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ss-introduction

Maybe you should address your concerns to the director general and ofcom. I expect they could do with a good laugh.

ive been hammering the bbc complaints compartment with 9281 emails per minute since monza ended using a email bomber :rotfl:

#13438 TheBunk

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 03:38

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ss-introduction

Maybe you should address your concerns to the director general and ofcom. I expect they could do with a good laugh.


Ah, its only 6 races and then hel be quiet for 50% of the 2012 season. Winning!

#13439 cheapracer

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 09:14

He compliments Schumacher for defending by STAYING ON THE RACING LINE. Confirming;

1. The ability to race hard AND fair (even for Scumacher)
2. Brundles commentative integrity

Bravo.


Read this post \/

But it is clearly seen how in 6 years the perception of tough racing has faded into something castrated .


Indeed but I was also pointing to Brundle's seemingly different view in recenttimes on MS as well - don't know if he changed "with the times" or other personal reasons.


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#13440 Sakae

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:41

It was good to see an old race again.

They really liked JB, and gave him every benefit of doubt. I liked especially references like - he was leading first nine laps, and now he is on "sensible" 15 sec (gap pace behind Schumacher) in second place.

Or this one - he is "really" on Schumacher's case. (JB cutting gap from 17 to 14 or thereabouts to Schumacher, who was in traffic).

Man of the race, of course, ... JB.

#13441 cheapracer

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:43

Man of the race, of course, ... JB.


Schumacher held 4 or 5 drivers in high esteem back then and Button was one of them.


#13442 puxanando

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 10:49

Schumacher held 4 or 5 drivers in high esteem back then and Button was one of them.



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:cool:

#13443 Sakae

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 11:37

Schumacher held 4 or 5 drivers in high esteem back then and Button was one of them.



Man of that race was Schumacher, and credit also goes to a Ferrari team.

#13444 DutchCruijff

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 13:42

"I don't give a damn about suggestions," he retorted when asked if he was pondering staying in F1 after 2012.

http://www.itv.com/f...plans-yet-3927/


Pardon me if I'm reading too much into the "then I will find out afterwards" but that reads like he wants to stay on afterwards but it depends on Mercedes.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 18 September 2011 - 13:44.


#13445 arknor

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 14:01

didnt mdercedes already say he has the option of +1 year if he wants it awhile back?

#13446 EdwardCullen

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 15:18

Schumacher held 4 or 5 drivers in high esteem back then and Button was one of them.

Yup , i remember
he rated Kimi first, then Alonso and Button was around 4th i think


#13447 cheapracer

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 18:18

Yup , i remember
he rated Kimi first, then Alonso and Button was around 4th i think


I said "high esteem" not ranking - try Prost, Senna, Button and Hakkinen.

Any other driver he was always very clinical when they were discussed.

#13448 DutchCruijff

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 18:40

Cynical?

Anyway, only a couple of days ago he was praising him:-

“Even if maybe he is two per cent below the level of his peak, he is still a phenomenal talent,” the German legend told news agency SID, adding in an interview with fashion magazine Vogue: “He can fight for the world championship again in the right car.”


He does have an option if he pleases to stay on, arknor, but I can't see it being as simple as that i.e Button and McLaren.

#13449 cheapracer

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 18:58

Cynical?


Clinical and Cynical may be confusing to you but I have no problem differentiating them.


#13450 Urawa

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 18:39

Interview with him in tomorrows Sportbild (print)

- he doesn´t feel as "fas"t and "perfect" anymore but good enough to compete in F1
- winning is not important, to feel that one did everything possible after the race is the satisfaction
- no chance for 2012 championship but wins "should be possible"
- 2012 will be more exciting as the gap to Red Bull will shrink (generally, he wasn´t asked why he believes that)
- they made enormous improvements at the beginning of the year but it was made too fast for the possibilities Mercedes had
- developments had to be reverted, the car was unable to cope with cartain things

Edited by Urawa, 20 September 2011 - 18:42.