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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#13401 ivand911

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:02

Mate, those collumns are written by ghost writers. Probably Andrew Benson.

At the end:
"Mark Webber was talking to BBC Sport's Andrew Benson. Read his exclusive column every Thursday."

Edited by ivand911, 15 September 2011 - 09:02.


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#13402 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:03

There you go :) (hadnt even read it entirely)

#13403 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:05

Well Schumacher is pushing the limits and Webber is pushing Massa. :rotfl:

I do think Webber is one of the last one's that should talk about safe driving.

#13404 as65p

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:06

Was it out for long enough to have real impact?


Well, wasn't it something like "3 SC laps give you one additional racing lap"? Roughly, and of course depending on the track. Not 100 percent sure, though.

#13405 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:08

Well, wasn't it something like "3 SC laps give you one additional racing lap"? Roughly, and of course depending on the track. Not 100 percent sure, though.

Unless it's Rosberg, apparently, but that's another thread entirely.

#13406 ivand911

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:18

Well, wasn't it something like "3 SC laps give you one additional racing lap"? Roughly, and of course depending on the track. Not 100 percent sure, though.

Guys, Ross Brawn explain that you don't save fuel now with SC. They burnt the excess fuel. Right answer is MS wouldn't have fuel problem, because first he didn't push really hard after Lewis pass. Second, maybe he fill car with enough fuel? Third, we don't hear all messages when teams tell their drivers to save fuel. So, we get wrong picture and some of you make wrong conclusion from this. Maybe 80% from the drivers need to save fuel at some stage of the race or they will finish with excess fuel which is not good for their speed. I am just surprised why then don't share with us when Trulli need to save fuel or Liuzzi or D'Ambrosio? Just shocked. :lol: I am sure that you like me, are worried when this guys run out of fuel.

Edited by ivand911, 15 September 2011 - 09:21.


#13407 as65p

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:27

Guys, Ross Brawn explain that you don't save fuel now with SC. They burnt the excess fuel.


Yeah, I was wondering about that too recently, they could of course do that to save weight for the rest of the race. Point is, an SC phase gives you options, you could go risky and burn fuel to save weight, or the opposite, save fuel so you can attack all race.

All in all there are many variables at play here for each driver/team/car combo and we hardly have enough info to judge. All we see is the end result, if it somehow goes wrong.

For Monza, we can only conclude that both MS and Hamilton (especially Hamilton, as he was pushing right through the end) had enough fuel, despite their intense battle.

#13408 as65p

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:30

Unless it's Rosberg, apparently, but that's another thread entirely.


Hm, maybe in Belgium they did with him like ivand911 suggested, chosing the risky option to make the car lighter.

#13409 walkindude

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 09:58

Love seeing the controversial Schumi back.It does get him at a higher level.No more Mr. Nice Guy please

#13410 Sakae

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:14

Problem is as I see it, that men who live at the performance-edge challenge more than one factor; next to speed, regulations, ethics, safety, personal desires, etc. Not all of us on the outside can always comprehend fine nuances on which side of the line he is. The ambiguity is not necessary evil, or illegal, but simply not understood well as it is not a domain we live in.

Edited by Sakae, 15 September 2011 - 10:14.


#13411 ali.unal

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:28

Love seeing the controversial Schumi back.It does get him at a higher level.No more Mr. Nice Guy please

I had thought the same when he overtook Alonso after SC came in at Monaco 2010 race. I felt he had to include himself into the fight between new kids on the block group so that he could find that last spark. The old Schumacher, the never-ever-given-up Schumacher, the ruthless and always opportunist Schumacher. Well, rest of that season proved me wrong. I hope these last two races of him won't do the same.

#13412 GoRacing

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 10:35

Well Schumacher is pushing the limits and Webber is pushing Massa. :rotfl:

I do think Webber is one of the last one's that should talk about safe driving.


I fully agree, how ironic that in the same race, Mark's driving was so bad and was himself lucky to escape any penalty for his stupid move on Massa.

#13413 ivand911

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:02

Mark Webber is a joke. After what he did to Massa he have come to talk about MS driving, when they even didn't touch with Lewis. :down: I have other opinion about Australians.

#13414 Tardis40

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 11:36

I do think Webber is one of the last one's that should talk about safe driving.


Yeah, now that Coulthard is retired.

#13415 MightyMoose

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:10

That column is just another continuation of Andrew Benson's agenda against MS.

The problem is the average person reads it and thinks "Oooh, nasty Schumacher up to his usual tricks" whereas the truth is not quite as blatant as that. To use MW's column for his own agenda is journalistic bias of an appalling nature, but to be expected by certain members of the BBC of which Benson is clearly a vocal member.

Given MW is far from an angel on the track (though he does appear to have calmed down since Valencia 2010), as previously mentioned, he was quite lucky to avoid a sanction for the Massa crash - guess that evens out the LH ambush at Canada on him!

Worth noting though that MW needed a substantial amount of 'filling' for the column, guess that's what happens when you only last 10% of the race!!!!

I'd hate to think what may happen if MS drives a race like LH did @ Monaco, Benson would probably have to wipe down his laptop.....

#13416 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:17

Well, apparently he is doing his job :
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/94553

With a shit car it's those few moments (along with him in Canada and Spa, and Nico in China(?) and Spa) that at least somewhat save the Merc season.

#13417 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 12:53

That column is just another continuation of Andrew Benson's agenda against MS.

The problem is the average person reads it and thinks "Oooh, nasty Schumacher up to his usual tricks" whereas the truth is not quite as blatant as that. To use MW's column for his own agenda is journalistic bias of an appalling nature, but to be expected by certain members of the BBC of which Benson is clearly a vocal member.

Given MW is far from an angel on the track (though he does appear to have calmed down since Valencia 2010), as previously mentioned, he was quite lucky to avoid a sanction for the Massa crash - guess that evens out the LH ambush at Canada on him!

Worth noting though that MW needed a substantial amount of 'filling' for the column, guess that's what happens when you only last 10% of the race!!!!

I'd hate to think what may happen if MS drives a race like LH did @ Monaco, Benson would probably have to wipe down his laptop.....


Having worked for the BBC I can tell you that is tosh. Benson wouldn't last 10 seconds if he was using Webbers column for his own agenda. The libel police would be all over it and will always demand webber (or his assigned attorney) has sign off on final copy. Even if it is ghost written. Looks more like dictation to me.



#13418 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:18

Having worked for the BBC I can tell you that is tosh. Benson wouldn't last 10 seconds if he was using Webbers column for his own agenda. The libel police would be all over it and will always demand webber (or his assigned attorney) has sign off on final copy. Even if it is ghost written. Looks more like dictation to me.



Yes, but as Webber doesnt have a clue how to write, its very likely Benson summed up the points he wanted to mention and asked Webber for his opinion. Very easy to spritz your own agenda then, if you pardon me the Bruno-slang.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 September 2011 - 13:18.


#13419 arknor

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:19

Yes, but as Webber doesnt have a clue how to write, its very likely Benson summed up the points he wanted to mention and asked Webber for his opinion. Very easy to spritz your own agenda then, if you pardon me the Bruno-slang.

doubt webber even ever sees it more than likely whoever handles his PR sees it..
same as most twitter accounts and facebook pages arent actually anyone but the persons PR

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#13420 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:25

Yes, but as Webber doesnt have a clue how to write, its very likely Benson summed up the points he wanted to mention and asked Webber for his opinion. Very easy to spritz your own agenda then, if you pardon me the Bruno-slang.


How do you know wether Webber can write or not, very arrogant and presumptuous.

That is not how the BBC works. You could probably get away with it once but you'd be found out very quickly by peer review and sign off authority. The BBC is very risk averse when it comes to assigned opinion.

#13421 Diablobb81

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:27

Good, so both Benson and Webber are tossers. :rotfl:

#13422 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:34

How do you know wether Webber can write or not, very arrogant and presumptuous.

That is not how the BBC works. You could probably get away with it once but you'd be found out very quickly by peer review and sign off authority. The BBC is very risk averse when it comes to assigned opinion.



Well, perhaps it is but I think we can safely assume Webber isnt settling down an hour behind his PC to do an attempt at article writing for the BBC nor is he known for holding a degree in journalistic skills. Besides, the article mentions that he was talking to Andrew Benson.

And Im sure the BBC is very risk averse on assigned opinions, that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.

What we do know is that Benson isnt the most unbiased motorsport journalist, and hence my and other posters scepticism.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 September 2011 - 13:36.


#13423 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:40

Well, perhaps it is but I think we can safely assume Webber isnt settling down an hour behind his PC to do an attempt at article writing for the BBC nor is he known for holding a degree in journalistic skills. Besides, the article mentions that he was talking to Andrew Benson.

And Im sure the BBC is very risk averse on assigned opinions, that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.

What we do know is that Benson isnt the most unbiased motorsport journalist, and hence my and other posters scepticism.


I said it sounds like dictation.

It still has to reflect the opinions of MW, otherwise you would find very quickly one of these;

A u turn and apology
The end of the MW column
The end of benson.

Why would benson want to discuss tennis or qpr?

#13424 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:47

that still doesnt rule out Benson telling Webber what points he wanted to discuss and work it out in Mark Webbers Column.


Benson; "Mark, this is what you think, m'kay?"

#13425 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 13:53

I said it sounds like dictation.

It still has to reflect the opinions of MW, otherwise you would find very quickly one of these;

A u turn and apology
The end of the MW column
The end of benson.

Why would benson want to discuss tennis or qpr?



Well sure but you can ask about how he sees the schumacher incident in a lot of ways, all of wich would produce different answers, no?

Do you think the audience saw a nice battle?

Do you think this is good for F1?

Does this spell the return of Schumacher?

How do you rate Schumacher and Hamilton?

or

Did you think the moves warranted a penalty?

Did Schumacher cross a line?

Did it ruin Hamiltons race?

Was it ruining an otherwise good battle?

Etc. Many, many ways to spin this without harming the BBC, Bensons or Webbers feelings.


#13426 Number62

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 15:04

Well sure but you can ask about how he sees the schumacher incident in a lot of ways, all of wich would produce different answers, no?

Do you think the audience saw a nice battle?

Do you think this is good for F1?

Does this spell the return of Schumacher?

How do you rate Schumacher and Hamilton?

or

Did you think the moves warranted a penalty?

Did Schumacher cross a line?

Did it ruin Hamiltons race?

Was it ruining an otherwise good battle?

Etc. Many, many ways to spin this without harming the BBC, Bensons or Webbers feelings.


No because it's not sustainable, you could only do it once otherwise...

"Mate it's Mark Webber, you made me look like a bitter dick (or sycophant), if you do that again that's the end of the column. ok?....drrrrrrrrr."

BBC editors beat up on Benson for being unprofessional.

What you're proposing is that you can see something that whole of the BBC editing and peer review process can't see.

or it's not there?

p.s. we're right on the edge of O.T., will we get referred to stewards or just a warning?

Edited by Number62, 15 September 2011 - 15:08.


#13427 AirWebber

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 16:15

Mark Webber is a joke. After what he did to Massa he have come to talk about MS driving, when they even didn't touch with Lewis. :down: I have other opinion about Australians.

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#13428 TheBunk

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 16:58

No because it's not sustainable, you could only do it once otherwise...

"Mate it's Mark Webber, you made me look like a bitter dick (or sycophant), if you do that again that's the end of the column. ok?....drrrrrrrrr."

BBC editors beat up on Benson for being unprofessional.

What you're proposing is that you can see something that whole of the BBC editing and peer review process can't see.

or it's not there?

p.s. we're right on the edge of O.T., will we get referred to stewards or just a warning?


Youre right, its ot but i will say this as the last mention: it is sustainable if it were the true words of Webber. He doesnt seem like a guy making a problem over big words. Likewise the endorsing of Alonso's move while Vettel made an official complaint could be making Webber look like s cry baby. So no, lots of different ways to spin the article without creating tensions.

And I do wonder if bbc-editors check what Benson writes. His love in, straight adressing drivers instead of the readers wouldv been deleted by any self respecting broadcast organisation.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 September 2011 - 16:59.


#13429 baddog

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 22:54

We are a long way off 'Michael Schumacher' as a topic here.. but Ill give my ten-pence worth. Mark has turned in and taken out several drivers, and is one of the more aggressive drivers we have seen in the last decade. These comments are grossly hypocritical, Michael did nothing on Sunday that Mark wouldn't do in a second.

#13430 SeanValen

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 00:26

We are a long way off 'Michael Schumacher' as a topic here.. but Ill give my ten-pence worth. Mark has turned in and taken out several drivers, and is one of the more aggressive drivers we have seen in the last decade. These comments are grossly hypocritical, Michael did nothing on Sunday that Mark wouldn't do in a second.



Webber crashed out of the Monza showpiece after just four laps, following a collision with Felipe Massa - a result that virtually ends his chance of catching Red Bull team-mate Sebastian Vettel in the Drivers' Standings.

The attention of the race was oin Michael, people enjoyed seeing him race Hamilton-who has been the racer since he left, and put on some moves that Ham and others have tried and even gotten away with worse.

Webber basically has come to a deadend, last year he was able to get on top of the car for some gps, but so did Trulli against Alonso in 2004, HHF did a decent 1999 season, Webber igrew up watching Schumacher, and admitted recording Schumacher's wins and taping over races he lost, he is a MS fan, and making him the subject of his comments lately, just shows his own inconsistent f1 career, he is struggeling even in the top car of the year to show Vettel some sort of fight, it's not good for him, especially if he's going to be ending his career with redbull.

When Schumacher is the attention, all other drivers who perform badly like Webber hide behind the collective media pinpoint of Schumacher, when this happens, Schuey's had a strong race for sure. Just like old times with DC and Jacques having shots at Mike in the press, then failing in races. :drunk:

This is interesting, because of this is what happens if Mercedes can hang at the front in the future more, then the legend that is Schumacher bascially makes everyone else lesser of a story, so it would make sense to join in collective media praise/or bashing of Schumacher, be just like old times, you can sense that returned in Monza, that Schumacher-Hamilton attention got everyone on the edge of their seats, no one was interested in another vettel or webber performance, a ferrari win would of been nice with Alonso, but the Hamilton and Schumacher thing gave something fans have been wanting since Michael retired, a up front tussle with pretty much this generations arguebly's most talented-Hamilton-the yellow Senna helment just makes it almost as close as you'll get to some sort of Senna/Schumacher duel, and Ham is a great qualifyer just like Senna, so it's almost the next best thing, what's Mark Webber's race compared to that? His race was bascially rubbish, and I don't think he has the words for himself, talking Schuey is more easier, why not.

If Vettel won the race and Schumacher was in the redbull, and crashed Massa out, I'm sure the retirement rreaction would be sky high for Michael, but not webber. Webberi is getting away with some pretty dismal performances this year, and I was one of the fans of his performances last year, I think he's inconsistent now and again, and has occassional rounds of top performances, he reminds me a little of David Couthard now in his latter years, as Kimi came to Mclaren, and the rules/cars changed, DC sort of faded out, and that was with mclarens not even going for wins some of the time, webber is in a top car. Schumacher has been out of the sport and came back-relearn, what's Webber's reasonings. he was never consistent top performer, only 2010 reshaped people's perceptions of him, but not every seasn can keep that up.

Edited by SeanValen, 16 September 2011 - 01:00.


#13431 ivand911

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 13:10

http://i30.fastpic.r...8ad93e28c07.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic..._dtm_2011-1.jpg
http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!


#13432 GreyArrow

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 13:16

http://www.youtube.c...layer_embedded#!

Brilliant - not seen those before.

#13433 zelpre

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:00

hope schumi gets on seventh place in WDC after Singapore.

#13434 arknor

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:17

hope schumi gets on seventh place in WDC after Singapore.

strong track for nico so might be a tough one for msc

#13435 Number62

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 14:34

What does this mean ( twitter, but I can't find the original source)?

47% de Los alemanes opinan que Schumacher debiria retirarse



#13436 Spa95

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:04

What does this mean ( twitter, but I can't find the original source)?

47% de Los alemanes opinan que Schumacher debiria retirarse

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.

Edited by Spa95, 16 September 2011 - 15:05.


#13437 Number62

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:11

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.


Thanks, looks like it should say end 2012 anyway so no biggie.

#13438 AirWebber

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 15:18

http://www.focus.de/...aid_665914.html

Google

SID Poll: Schumacher to quit
Almost every other sports fan in Germany leads to the seven-time Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher after a withdrawal of the current season.

47.2 percent recommend the 42-year-old who quit his motor racing career to become final. The outcome of a representative survey of market and opinion research institute promit on behalf of the Sports Information Service (SID) as part of the SID monitors sport. The contract with Mercedes Champions of the record runs from late 2012.

Almost one third (32.2 percent), however want to Schumi, currently eighth in the championship look overall, even in the coming year on the Formula 1 Grand Prix circuits.
A change in the DTM to his brother Ralf Schumacher in favor of just 8.5 percent.

Edited by AirWebber, 16 September 2011 - 15:19.


#13439 Tardis40

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 16:08

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season. Source is the german sport news agency, which also conducted the survey*.

http://www.motorspor...n_11091604.html

* Another useless survey.


That's 47% of the Germans who allegedly took the survey, not 47% of all Germans. And one whale of a sloppy photoshop on the picture of Michael LOL

Edited by Tardis40, 16 September 2011 - 16:09.


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#13440 spacekid

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 17:26

I really don't understand these continual calls for Schumi to retire. In the past half a season or so he's shown that he's really getting to grips with being back in the sport. In Monaco, Canada, Spa and Monza we've seen some really strong driving, I dare say as good as anyone could manage in the Mercedes.

Sure there's been some wobbly moments getting back into the groove, and the car is a bit rubbish, but Michael is far from embarrasing himself at the moment. In fact I'd say he'd be rather happier with his performances at the moment than Webber or Massa, who both occupy race seats higher up the grid.

#13441 Rol

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 18:00

This German poll is practically good for nothing. If you wish I can create a netpoll still today, on which 98,3% of respondants will say Michael Schumacher should be the next US President.

What is much more telling, is Michael being all over the media for weeks now. Vettel has practically become the youngest double-WCC, with a superb drive in Monza, and still attention is focusing on Michael primarely.

And why? Beside Michael being a living F1 legend, his driving in Spa and Monza showed a lot for those who have an eye for F1.
He was so much more relaxed and focused then before, no sign of pushing over the limit or deconcentration. His drive was cool, tactical and precise. Michael is mentally back to the top!

What made the difference? We can only guess, maybe Spa and Monza favoring MB-GP was a factor, but I suspect more significant development behind. Maybe their project with Mercedes is more secure for some reason. I would not rule out a contract extension for 2013, and a significant budget increase from Mercedes side, including some personell, who are key in the eyes of Micheal.

We will see.






#13442 zelpre

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:51

Lauda doffs famous cap to Schumacher

"I take my cap off to his performances of the last two races"



http://motorsport.ne...cher,30080.html

#13443 cheapracer

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:00

47% percent of germans want Michael Schumacher to retire at the end of the season.


Did they ask Michael?




#13444 Rol

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:11

http://motorsport.ne...cher,30080.html


thanks for the article. :wave:
Lauda's opinion is really worth to pay attention to. He is one of the few out there, who are outspoken and equally ready to praise or criticize Michael.

#13445 cheapracer

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:22

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html

#13446 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:54

that was 2004, when montoya and schumacher had this type of fight each race.
some people (including brundle) have forgot what hard racing is.
hopefully hamilton and schumacher will have more fights like the one in monza. they are 2 fantastic racers

#13447 Number62

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 13:56

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html


What?

#13448 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 14:11

he considers pushing somebody out as clean racing and blames the driver going for room that was not there

he clearly forgot about this with lewis's move

#13449 Number62

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 14:20

he considers pushing somebody out as clean racing and blames the driver going for room that was not there

he clearly forgot about this with lewis's move


He compliments Schumacher for defending by STAYING ON THE RACING LINE. Confirming;

1. The ability to race hard AND fair (even for Scumacher)
2. Brundles commentative integrity

Bravo.

#13450 sharo

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 15:56

Listen to exactly what Brundle has to say about Schumacher at 1.20 and 3.40 and compare it to recent commentry - guess different nationality of the driver who is disposed makes all the difference ...

http://v.youku.com/v...U5MjMwOTcy.html


OT: Thanks for the link, Oh! the sound of V10 in anger ...

But it is clearly seen how in 6 years the perception of tough racing has faded into something castrated .