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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#13651 arknor

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 13:54

I do think it was Perez fault.. but Michael at the same time should have given a bit more margin into that corner .. had much more opportunity downstream to get him.

yea i think the top drivers need to start treating rookies like rookies and beeing uber cautious around them especially the saubers

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#13652 Paco

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 13:57

yea i think the top drivers need to start treating rookies like rookies and beeing uber cautious around them especially the saubers


:up:

#13653 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:07

yea i think the top drivers need to start treating rookies like rookies and beeing uber cautious around them especially the saubers


Agreed, getting past him was just a matter of time but i can't blame him for being impatient with all the trouble MGP got him in

#13654 baddog

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:09

I don't think its perez fault, its something about the sauber.. they have been hit up the back multiple times this year by various drivers.

That said, Michael will be far from unhappy, once again he overdrove the car and outdrove his teammate.

#13655 sharo

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:10

Sh.. happens. Come Suzuka.

#13656 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:11

Schumy was 3.5 sec faster than Perez on the previuos lap
And 2 sec faster than Nico

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:13.


#13657 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:14

I do think it was Perez fault.. but Michael at the same time should have given a bit more margin into that corner .. had much more opportunity downstream to get him.


I disagree - Michael was way .off the line. There is no way he could have done anything productive that corner. I also do not think Perez break-tested as MS suggested. 100 % MS fault - sad that it ended an otherwise interesting race methinks

#13658 Longtimefan

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:14

Great shame, Schumi was driving well.

The Stewards need to examine the telemetry from the sauber.


#13659 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:17

wheel to wheel racing sometimes leads to that. sh!t happens

he's had so much action -> came through the field in spa, fighting wheel to wheel with lewis and a lot of fights and overtakes today after his first pit stop (terribly timed going from 2.5 to 12 sec to Rosberg)



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#13660 Tarzaan

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:18

Schumy was 3.5 sec faster than Perez on the previuos lap
And 2 sec faster than Nico



Would be good to know that Peres braks early or not.

#13661 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:19

I disagree - Michael was way .off the line. There is no way he could have done anything productive that corner. I also do not think Perez break-tested as MS suggested. 100 % MS fault - sad that it ended an otherwise interesting race methinks

It seems that you have the telemetry from the saber with u, care to share with us?

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:24.


#13662 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:20

I also do not think Perez break-tested as MS suggested.

He did?

No he didn't :rolleyes:

Edited by Spa95, 25 September 2011 - 14:20.


#13663 Birelman

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:20

That was so dumb, sure, Perez could have been nicer, but with Schumacher's experience, he should have seen that coming a mile back. :down:

#13664 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:25

I also do not think Perez break-tested as MS suggested. 100 % MS fault

That wasn't what he said AT ALL. Come back when you've actually seen the interview.

#13665 Sakae

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:25

I am glad that Michael is OK.

#13666 lykaschufan

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:27

I am glad that Michael is OK.



Same here; I was worried for a moment looking at the massive impact.

#13667 zelpre

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:31

Standard = Shitty pit calls, better pace than nico and incident.

#13668 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:32

That was so dumb, sure, Perez could have been nicer, but with Schumacher's experience, he should have seen that coming a mile back. :down:

interesting
a schumacher incident and you pop around.
how about a word about his performance level, spa race etc?

#13669 Wilgot

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:33

Anyone got on-board footage from the crash?

#13670 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:34

I am glad that Michael is OK.

:up:

#13671 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:35

video

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:35.


#13672 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:35

That wasn't what he said AT ALL. Come back when you've actually seen the interview.


What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

#13673 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:40

What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

way off the line? he was going for the inside line to overtake
but perez kept on pushing...but i think Perez had to brake early...he ws 3.5 sec slower than Schmy on the previous lap
thats what happened....Perez with old tyres brakes early and MS didnt expect someone to brake that early
just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board

#13674 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:41

What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

Perez previous lap was apperantly 3.5 seconds slower than Michaels - it's obvious that there was a huge difference between the freshness of their tyres which would result in earlier braking, lifting off, etc. on Perez's part. It's a normal racing incident caused by the huge difference in used and new tyres we are having this year.

Edited by Spa95, 25 September 2011 - 14:43.


#13675 FenderJaguar

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:47

FFS fans - if you can't see that this was Michael's own fault - get a haircut. And you the same people who probably think he was "defending" so well in the last race. You can't have double standards. Michael should have used his head and waited but he got too hot and too close in a bad place.

#13676 zelpre

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

Still hope for 6th place in WDC.

#13677 Pizdek

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

Retire old man, pls.

Just retire and give a younger one place in this shit car.

#13678 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

FFS fans - if you can't see that this was Michael's own fault - get a haircut. And you the same people who probably think he was "defending" so well in the last race. You can't have double standards. Michael should have used his head and waited but he got too hot and too close in a bad place.


:up: :up:

Experience shoul have shown here but this time it did not.

#13679 Tarzaan

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:49

This accident was similar to the Heidfeld-Koba(also Sauber) crash from Montreal.

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#13680 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:51

Perez previous lap was apperantly 3.5 seconds slower than Michaels - it's obvious that there was a huge difference between the freshness of their tyres which would result in earlier braking, lifting off, etc. on Perez's part. It's a normal racing incident caused by the huge difference in used and new tyres we have this year.

thats exactly what Schumy said

here is the lap times
lap 27
Nico - 1.55.082
Perez - 1.56.172
MS - 1.53.096

lap 28
Nico - 1.55.509
Perez -1.57.354
MS - 1.54.080

lap 29
Nico - 1.58.170
Perez - 1.56.795
MS - 1.54.496

and then bam!

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:53.


#13681 Urawa

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:52

Funnily nothing happens when he has to fight with the likes of Hamilton, Button, Webber, Massa but once drivers like Petrov, Kobayashi, Perez are involved.
No coincidence here of course.

#13682 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:53

thats exactly what Schumy said

here is the lap times
lap 27
Nico - 1.55.082
Perez - 1.56.172
MS - 1.53.096

lap 28
Nico - 1.55.509
Perez -1.57.354
MS - 1.54.080

lap 29
Nico - 1.58.170
Perez - 1.56.795
MS - 1.54.496

and then bam!

Yep, but Konsta is already ignoring our posts. :lol:

#13683 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:53

Good race, shame for the accident. Wasn't worth it, really, Perez was clearly slower and would've been easy prey in the next lap. But then again, all other "slow" drivers (aka "running a different race") left room to the faster car todays, bar this situation.


Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

#13684 H2H

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:54


Perez defended with old tyres and did leave the line on the inside a bit later than expected. Schumi dived in a bit too early. Sometimes racing is like that

#13685 dav115

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

Brake testing isn't racing.

#13686 ninno

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

bad luck and even more bad move for Michael.. another possible good race but then something like that happens.. will see there is more yet to come in next races :up:

#13687 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

I guess you guys are all right you, but on the heat of the moment you get too disappointed to point out the facts like the condition of perez's tyres etc.. So i say it was indeed Michael's fault but MGP shouldn't have got him in all that in the first place. It's just a real shame when i saw him getting that fastest lap i was hoping for a good result and i think 5th was within his reach. Mistakes and bad strategy calls will cost him 7th WDC position at this rate and imho he deserves it more than Rosberg does.

#13688 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:56

way off the line? he was going for the inside line to overtake


Which means he was off the racing line.

but perez kept on pushing...but i think Perez had to brake early...he ws 3.5 sec slower than Schmy on the previous lap

Was he pushing or braking early? you can't do both.

just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board


It seems that you have the telemetry from the grid with u, care to share with us? :wave:



#13689 Afterburner

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:56

Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

#13690 sharo

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:59

Main responsibility and blame lies on Michael. Misjudged the situation. I'm sure he'll make a note for himself.

He's not the only one caught by a Sauber, I was thinking maybe there's something in their engine/KERS management which produces a greater braking effect on lifting.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

One was under acceleration, the other under braking.

Edited by sharo, 25 September 2011 - 15:00.


#13691 z2z

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:00

IMO its mistake on Schumacher's part presuming perez braking point. May be prerez lifted off early but Schu still must have been cautious.

Sadly it didn't rain !!

#13692 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:02

Yep, but Konsta is already ignoring our posts. :lol:


I did not - what I meant that Michael s experience should have avoided the crash. He hit Perez straight in the rear - not sideways approaching the corner under braking. I still stand fast that MS was quick and it was shame that his race ended - but that his own over-eagerness caused that.

#13693 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:03

thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board

It seems that you have the telemetry from the grid with u, care to share with us? :wave:

yes i have and everyone saw ....its called onboard graphics, showing where everyone brakes and accelrates!
i will give you a clue...it is Red for brake and green for accleleration....Red=brake , green=accelrate...red - green , brake accelrate ..understood ? isnt it magical? :lol:
another clue its on the left side of the screen and one more clue is that you can hear brrrrrrrrrrrraaawwaaaamm when they accelrate :lol: and you can hear Dum brrr dum brrrrrrrrr when they brake :lol:
if you want anymore clue to understand, i will help you out :wave:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 15:04.


#13694 Beyond

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:03

Clearly michael's fault, he was too close to perez and shouldve been more cautious. that's a rookie mistake, a real pity because he's been so fast in races but still loses to rosberg with this accidents.

#13695 Augurk

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

Wonder what you said at Hungary last year.

This was Schumachers fault in misjudging the Saubers braking point, yet I can't help but feel these Saubers are turning into dangerous road blocks with their race strategies. It's happened too often that someone taps them from behind.

Anyway great race pace, pity he lost here, probably 6th place was achievable. On to Suzuka where he should definitely have great pace.

#13696 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

I did not - what I meant that Michael s experience should have avoided the crash. He hit Perez straight in the rear - not sideways approaching the corner under braking. I still stand fast that MS was quick and it was shame that his race ended - but that his own over-eagerness caused that.

his tyre hit Perez right rear tyre....thats NOT hitting straight in the rear
if he hit straight in the rear Perez's car would have damaged...he just hit the rear tyres...thats why Perez was able to continue with a tyre change.

#13697 Wilgot

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

Main responsibility and blame lies on Michael. Misjudged the situation. I'm sure he'll make a note for himself.

He's not the only one caught by a Sauber, I was thinking maybe there's something in their engine/KERS management which produces a greater braking effect on lifting.

Completely agree with you guys. He didn't have to get right on the back of Rosberg as he was way faster. Should've played that one better.

With that said, I think Perez on his old tyres was defending a little harder than he had to, both against Rosberg and against Schumi. What's the deal with Sauber and their super long stints? Lol.


#13698 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:07

Brake testing isn't racing.


Who was brake testing? blind assumptions are not the same as facts.

#13699 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:10

This was Schumachers fault in misjudging the Saubers braking point, yet I can't help but feel these Saubers are turning into dangerous road blocks with their race strategies. It's happened too often that someone taps them from behind.


agreed


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#13700 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:11

I don't know how you can 'judge' the braking & accelerating of a car that is 3.5 seconds slower than your car. It's like throwing a couple of GP2 cars on the grid for shits and giggles.

Shit happened this afternoon, thats all.

Edited by Spa95, 25 September 2011 - 15:12.