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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#13651 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:34

I am glad that Michael is OK.

:up:

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#13652 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:35

video

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:35.


#13653 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:35

That wasn't what he said AT ALL. Come back when you've actually seen the interview.


What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

#13654 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:40

What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

way off the line? he was going for the inside line to overtake
but perez kept on pushing...but i think Perez had to brake early...he ws 3.5 sec slower than Schmy on the previous lap
thats what happened....Perez with old tyres brakes early and MS didnt expect someone to brake that early
just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board

#13655 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:41

What I meant was that I do not believe Perez lifted any different. Michael has so much experience that he should not have been way off line the way hje was. Shame that it ended an otherwise good race for him.

Perez previous lap was apperantly 3.5 seconds slower than Michaels - it's obvious that there was a huge difference between the freshness of their tyres which would result in earlier braking, lifting off, etc. on Perez's part. It's a normal racing incident caused by the huge difference in used and new tyres we are having this year.

Edited by Spa95, 25 September 2011 - 14:43.


#13656 FenderJaguar

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:47

FFS fans - if you can't see that this was Michael's own fault - get a haircut. And you the same people who probably think he was "defending" so well in the last race. You can't have double standards. Michael should have used his head and waited but he got too hot and too close in a bad place.

#13657 zelpre

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

Still hope for 6th place in WDC.

#13658 Pizdek

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

Retire old man, pls.

Just retire and give a younger one place in this shit car.

#13659 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:48

FFS fans - if you can't see that this was Michael's own fault - get a haircut. And you the same people who probably think he was "defending" so well in the last race. You can't have double standards. Michael should have used his head and waited but he got too hot and too close in a bad place.


:up: :up:

Experience shoul have shown here but this time it did not.

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#13660 Tarzaan

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:49

This accident was similar to the Heidfeld-Koba(also Sauber) crash from Montreal.

#13661 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:51

Perez previous lap was apperantly 3.5 seconds slower than Michaels - it's obvious that there was a huge difference between the freshness of their tyres which would result in earlier braking, lifting off, etc. on Perez's part. It's a normal racing incident caused by the huge difference in used and new tyres we have this year.

thats exactly what Schumy said

here is the lap times
lap 27
Nico - 1.55.082
Perez - 1.56.172
MS - 1.53.096

lap 28
Nico - 1.55.509
Perez -1.57.354
MS - 1.54.080

lap 29
Nico - 1.58.170
Perez - 1.56.795
MS - 1.54.496

and then bam!

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 14:53.


#13662 Urawa

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:52

Funnily nothing happens when he has to fight with the likes of Hamilton, Button, Webber, Massa but once drivers like Petrov, Kobayashi, Perez are involved.
No coincidence here of course.

#13663 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:53

thats exactly what Schumy said

here is the lap times
lap 27
Nico - 1.55.082
Perez - 1.56.172
MS - 1.53.096

lap 28
Nico - 1.55.509
Perez -1.57.354
MS - 1.54.080

lap 29
Nico - 1.58.170
Perez - 1.56.795
MS - 1.54.496

and then bam!

Yep, but Konsta is already ignoring our posts. :lol:

#13664 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:53

Good race, shame for the accident. Wasn't worth it, really, Perez was clearly slower and would've been easy prey in the next lap. But then again, all other "slow" drivers (aka "running a different race") left room to the faster car todays, bar this situation.


Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

#13665 H2H

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:54


Perez defended with old tyres and did leave the line on the inside a bit later than expected. Schumi dived in a bit too early. Sometimes racing is like that

#13666 dav115

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

Brake testing isn't racing.

#13667 ninno

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

bad luck and even more bad move for Michael.. another possible good race but then something like that happens.. will see there is more yet to come in next races :up:

#13668 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:55

I guess you guys are all right you, but on the heat of the moment you get too disappointed to point out the facts like the condition of perez's tyres etc.. So i say it was indeed Michael's fault but MGP shouldn't have got him in all that in the first place. It's just a real shame when i saw him getting that fastest lap i was hoping for a good result and i think 5th was within his reach. Mistakes and bad strategy calls will cost him 7th WDC position at this rate and imho he deserves it more than Rosberg does.

#13669 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:56

way off the line? he was going for the inside line to overtake


Which means he was off the racing line.

but perez kept on pushing...but i think Perez had to brake early...he ws 3.5 sec slower than Schmy on the previous lap

Was he pushing or braking early? you can't do both.

just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board


It seems that you have the telemetry from the grid with u, care to share with us? :wave:



#13670 Afterburner

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:56

Why is it when Schumacher fights against faster cars he gets a standing ovation but when a slowercar fights against him there's uproar for ruining his race?

You can't praise MS for being racy then demand the rest of the grid just waves the guy through when he's on their tail.

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

#13671 sharo

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 14:59

Main responsibility and blame lies on Michael. Misjudged the situation. I'm sure he'll make a note for himself.

He's not the only one caught by a Sauber, I was thinking maybe there's something in their engine/KERS management which produces a greater braking effect on lifting.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

One was under acceleration, the other under braking.

Edited by sharo, 25 September 2011 - 15:00.


#13672 z2z

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:00

IMO its mistake on Schumacher's part presuming perez braking point. May be prerez lifted off early but Schu still must have been cautious.

Sadly it didn't rain !!

#13673 Konsta

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:02

Yep, but Konsta is already ignoring our posts. :lol:


I did not - what I meant that Michael s experience should have avoided the crash. He hit Perez straight in the rear - not sideways approaching the corner under braking. I still stand fast that MS was quick and it was shame that his race ended - but that his own over-eagerness caused that.

#13674 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:03

thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board

It seems that you have the telemetry from the grid with u, care to share with us? :wave:

yes i have and everyone saw ....its called onboard graphics, showing where everyone brakes and accelrates!
i will give you a clue...it is Red for brake and green for accleleration....Red=brake , green=accelrate...red - green , brake accelrate ..understood ? isnt it magical? :lol:
another clue its on the left side of the screen and one more clue is that you can hear brrrrrrrrrrrraaawwaaaamm when they accelrate :lol: and you can hear Dum brrr dum brrrrrrrrr when they brake :lol:
if you want anymore clue to understand, i will help you out :wave:

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 15:04.


#13675 Beyond

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:03

Clearly michael's fault, he was too close to perez and shouldve been more cautious. that's a rookie mistake, a real pity because he's been so fast in races but still loses to rosberg with this accidents.

#13676 Augurk

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

I suppose the cruel irony in all this is that the move Perez used against him was eerily similar to Schumi's move to keep Hamilton behind at the Curva Grande last race. :p

Wonder what you said at Hungary last year.

This was Schumachers fault in misjudging the Saubers braking point, yet I can't help but feel these Saubers are turning into dangerous road blocks with their race strategies. It's happened too often that someone taps them from behind.

Anyway great race pace, pity he lost here, probably 6th place was achievable. On to Suzuka where he should definitely have great pace.

#13677 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

I did not - what I meant that Michael s experience should have avoided the crash. He hit Perez straight in the rear - not sideways approaching the corner under braking. I still stand fast that MS was quick and it was shame that his race ended - but that his own over-eagerness caused that.

his tyre hit Perez right rear tyre....thats NOT hitting straight in the rear
if he hit straight in the rear Perez's car would have damaged...he just hit the rear tyres...thats why Perez was able to continue with a tyre change.

#13678 Wilgot

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:06

Whichever way anyone tries to spin it, this one was Schumi's fault, end of story. He had all the track in the world on his left, and could've used it if he wanted to. It's my personal opinion that, judging from his pace just before the accident, he would've easily finished the race ahead of Rosberg. Woulda-coulda-shoulda, in the end, though. Better luck next time.

Main responsibility and blame lies on Michael. Misjudged the situation. I'm sure he'll make a note for himself.

He's not the only one caught by a Sauber, I was thinking maybe there's something in their engine/KERS management which produces a greater braking effect on lifting.

Completely agree with you guys. He didn't have to get right on the back of Rosberg as he was way faster. Should've played that one better.

With that said, I think Perez on his old tyres was defending a little harder than he had to, both against Rosberg and against Schumi. What's the deal with Sauber and their super long stints? Lol.


#13679 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:07

Brake testing isn't racing.


Who was brake testing? blind assumptions are not the same as facts.

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#13680 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:10

This was Schumachers fault in misjudging the Saubers braking point, yet I can't help but feel these Saubers are turning into dangerous road blocks with their race strategies. It's happened too often that someone taps them from behind.


agreed


#13681 Spa95

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:11

I don't know how you can 'judge' the braking & accelerating of a car that is 3.5 seconds slower than your car. It's like throwing a couple of GP2 cars on the grid for shits and giggles.

Shit happened this afternoon, thats all.

Edited by Spa95, 25 September 2011 - 15:12.


#13682 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:12

It seems that you have the telemetry from the grid with u, care to share with us? :wave:

yes i have and everyone saw ....its called onboard graphics, showing where everyone brakes and accelrates!
i will give you a clue...it is Red for brake and green for accleleration....Red=brake , green=accelrate...red - green , brake accelrate ..understood ? isnt it magical? :lol:
another clue its on the left side of the screen and one more clue is that you can hear brrrrrrrrrrrraaawwaaaamm when they accelrate :lol: and you can hear Dum brrr dum brrrrrrrrr when they brake :lol:
if you want anymore clue to understand, i will help you out :wave:


If it's all so clear then why sneer and demend telemetry from other posters when they claim brake testing didn't happen?

I don't seem to be privy to this wealth of information that you mention would you bee so kind as to show me a screen grab of the graphics showing a driver braking in the race at 50m and a screen grab of Perez braking at 100m?



#13683 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:12

I don't know how you can 'judge' the braking & accelerating of a car that is 3.5 seconds slower than your car. It's like throwing a couple of GP2 cars on the grid for shits and giggles.

Shit happened this afternoon, thats all.

:up: :up: :up:

#13684 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:16

If it's all so clear then why sneer and demend telemetry from other posters when they claim brake testing didn't happen?

I don't seem to be privy to this wealth of information that you mention would you bee so kind as to show me a screen grab of the graphics showing a driver braking in the race at 50m and a screen grab of Perez braking at 100m?

please read what i posted porperly and argue with me

way off the line? he was going for the inside line to overtake
but perez kept on pushing...but i think Perez had to brake early...he ws 3.5 sec slower than Schmy on the previous lap
thats what happened....Perez with old tyres brakes early and MS didnt expect someone to brake that early
just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board


Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 15:18.


#13685 Lelouch

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:18

I don't know how you can 'judge' the braking & accelerating of a car that is 3.5 seconds slower than your car. It's like throwing a couple of GP2 cars on the grid for shits and giggles.

Shit happened this afternoon, thats all.


That's where the team should come in selecting a strategy that will help the driver avoid a situation like this. Michael's judgement was wrong and there are excuses for that but MGP didn't do anything to help him today

#13686 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:18

just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board



Posted Image

This is 100M away from the corner? smallest 100m I've ever seen :wave:



[edit] 100m is the length of a football pitch

Edited by Boing 2, 25 September 2011 - 15:21.


#13687 jj2728

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:19

Oops.....bang.....racing incident nothing more.

#13688 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:20

please read what i posted porperly and argue with me


Where's the screen graphics showing Perez braking at 100m?


If you're going to make things up you're going to look foolish kiddo.


#13689 puxanando

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:20

rrrrrummms.................................

#13690 eoin

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:20

Wonder what you said at Hungary last year.

This was Schumachers fault in misjudging the Saubers braking point, yet I can't help but feel these Saubers are turning into dangerous road blocks with their race strategies. It's happened too often that someone taps them from behind.

Anyway great race pace, pity he lost here, probably 6th place was achievable. On to Suzuka where he should definitely have great pace.


Agreed, Schumacher's fault and we will see more of these type of accidents. I believe I said something similar earlier on in the season- the tyre drop-off makes for interesting racing but it's going to cause accidents. At certain points in the race there was about 10s a lap difference between the fastest and slowest and a 6s gap between the fastest and the teams 4-6th in the constructors.

#13691 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:22

Where's the screen graphics showing Perez braking at 100m?


If you're going to make things up you're going to look foolish kiddo.

where did i say he braked at 100 meters?? :o
i said accident occured just after 100 meter board
here is my orginal quote

just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board

Posted Image

Edited by EdwardCullen, 25 September 2011 - 15:26.


#13692 Afterburner

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:25

One was under acceleration, the other under braking.

I meant coming off the corner--Perez didn't swing back to the apex at Singapore like Schumi did at Monza, though he did take a wide exit to hold Schumi off like Schumi did to Hamilton at Curva Grande. Or maybe Perez was actually trying to get out of Schumacher's way and Schumacher misjudged it. Either way, Michael paid for it in the end.

Wonder what you said at Hungary last year.

I wasn't here for the firestorm that surely must have erupted over that. :p I don't want to open a can of worms with this, but to answer your question, Schumacher was 100% within his right to defend the way he did at Hungary 2010. Barichello should've gone the other way or backed out if he didn't think he could make it. Ditto to Schumacher at Singapore.

I don't know how you can 'judge' the braking & accelerating of a car that is 3.5 seconds slower than your car. It's like throwing a couple of GP2 cars on the grid for shits and giggles.

Shit happened this afternoon, thats all.

:rotfl:

It's hard to judge, yeah, but judgment is a part of racing. Schumi misjudged here and paid for it, period.

Can't wait for next race--I'm fairly certain Michael will definitely be one up on Nico at Suzuka.

#13693 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:32

where did i say he braked at 100 meters?? :o
i said accident occured just after 100 meter board
here is my orginal quote
Posted Image


thats what happened....Perez with old tyres brakes early and MS didnt expect someone to brake that early
just look at where the accident occured, it was just after 100 meter board .. thats the corner where everyone brakes at or after 50 meter board


So he causes an accident at 100m by braking early but doesn't brake at 100m? Lay off the crack pipe son :kiss:

also, that accident happened just before 50m not just after 100m. You might want to look up a word called 'perspective'

Posted Image





#13694 chrisaix

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:36

Hi guys new here. Schumi fan since 96. Ive been following this forums for quiteba while. Im disappointed for schumi, just looking forward to suzuka, one of schumi's favorite track.

#13695 BRK

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:37

Perez was a moving chicane in that Sauber, it's like throwing in an HRT on the lead lap and watching all hell break loose. Midjudjed or not, a car moving that slowly and braking so early is a danger to the competitors, if he was any slower he ought to have been disqualified.

#13696 Boing 2

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:42

Perez was a moving chicane in that Sauber, it's like throwing in an HRT on the lead lap and watching all hell break loose. Midjudjed or not, a car moving that slowly and braking so early is a danger to the competitors, if he was any slower he ought to have been disqualified.


http://en.mclarenf-1.....el Schumacher

He was 2.6 seconds slower than Schumacher the previous lap, you really think anyone more than 2 secs a lap off the pace should be disqualified?


#13697 Augurk

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:43

I wasn't here for the firestorm that surely must have erupted over that. :p I don't want to open a can of worms with this, but to answer your question, Schumacher was 100% within his right to defend the way he did at Hungary 2010. Barichello should've gone the other way or backed out if he didn't think he could make it. Ditto to Schumacher at Singapore.

Woops, sorry for misjudging you there. We 100% agree on both incidents! :up:

#13698 EdwardCullen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:44

So he causes an accident at 100m by braking early but doesn't brake at 100m? Lay off the crack pipe son :kiss:

where the hell did i say the accident occured AT 100m???????????? :rolleyes: how many times i have to say this! :evil:
and where did i tell he braked at 100 m ????
wtf is wrong with you, maybe you are the one on crack KID!..i know you are just baiting me coz i completely owned you on the previous post about telemetry :lol:

also, that accident happened just before 50m not just after 100m. You might want to look up a word called 'perspective'

Posted Image

Nice trick to post a picture AFTER THE ACCIDENT OCCURED
look at my pic, thats the point where the front wing hits Perez (see MS' Front wing cracking)
Thats the point where accident occured.... and it is just after the 100 meter borad!
Posted Image

#13699 marchi-91

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:45

Retire old man, pls.

Just retire and give a younger one place in this shit car.



What you mean the young one that's actually more embarrassing for Mercedes then the old man. At least Michael gives it everything. Rosberg putters around until he feels threatened by Michael and try's to drive him off the road. The points may lay in Rosbergs favor but for everybody that watches the racing, it's clear to see that he's not even a patch on a 42 year old Michael let alone a future world champion. He cares only to beat Michael, and that is simply not good enough. Perhaps try and beat your team mate, but also actually try and improve as a driver.


I seriously cannot see how anybody can say Rosberg is one of the best drivers in F1. Fisichella mark II

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#13700 carbonfibre

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 15:45

Schumacher today was again faster then Nico, he would have been ahead of Nico a lot earlier had it not been for the strange pit strategy but that can happen.

He should have played it smarter and should have waited before passing Perez but things like this can happen, Perez was way way slower and he just didn't expected him to brake/lift so early i guess. Though luck but as i said he has proved to be on track again and on the pace. I can't wait for Suzuka with a Schumacher in this form. :)