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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#13751 exmayol

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 20:33

Great pace from MS but unfortunately a costly mistake. Onto the next race...

What puzzled me is 3 seconds NR to MS gap before 2nd pitstop becoming 8 seconds after... how could have MS lost 5 seconds in two laps???

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#13752 Tardis40

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 20:37

Well mate, there are those here who believe that MS can walk on water and turn same into wine.....


No, everybody know only hamilton can do that!



#13753 Diablobb81

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 20:37

Great pace from MS but unfortunately a costly mistake. Onto the next race...

What puzzled me is 3 seconds NR to MS gap before 2nd pitstop becoming 8 seconds after... how could have MS lost 5 seconds in two laps???


Same as first pitstop : tires were gone and he had to wait for Slowy to do his pitstop. Of course why they waited for 2 laps at the second pit stop is a mystery.

If that was the race strategy (guy in front gets to pit first) then it made no sense to not do a Q3 lap. They should have battled it out who is in front.

But as i said : if they would have pitted Michael first both drivers would have been on a good strategy. But they screwed Michael.

Edited by Diablobb81, 25 September 2011 - 20:39.


#13754 Bunchies

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 20:39

Hahaha, I was cursing the Sauber's too for never pitting. First Kobayashi running very long on his first set (holding up Michael) and then Perez on his second set.


Hey, don't worry about it. We're cursing their strategy over in the Sauber camp too! Our boys don't really seem to be on it in the past few races. Sorry, I think we both hope they do better, for everyone's benefit.

#13755 SeanValen

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 20:49


He left the track at 5am before race day,
Clearly fast in the race, and the trend which I was hestitant on saying earlier, but always thought would happen, clearly faster in the race, while Nico likes his qualifying stats to be high, he isn't reflecting his qualifying speed is Nico most of the time, and apart from a few tracks like Valancia-China, Michael has found something many were worried about last year, his race speed at various tracks, I've seen Rosberg struggle more then last year.

Michael is a threat pace wise, I knew there was to come from him from last year, the rest is about waiting for mercedes to get better, MS is on the ball, fast, racey professional, impressive, his comeback in 2010 had way too many variables to content with and explain, this year however, apart from mercedes not going for podiums/wins, speed is not the problem from him, he's added a element of enterttment for 4th/5th/6th/8th places that clearly rosberg can't provide, we got loads of competitive champions with MS in the mix, the MS and Ham fight in Monza was talking point, this era is golden, enjoy.

Rain would of been interesting on that track at night, one day we'll get it.

#13756 sosidge

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 21:09

He was 3 seconds off Schumacher's pace, I said had he been going any slower, he probably ought to have been disqualified and black flagged for being a mobile chicane hindering other drivers and dangerous driving. Like losing a wing and still continuing. Although it's fair enough that MS got a reprimand. As for the braking I guess you either didn't watch the race or missed the part post-race where Schumacher himself said Perez appeared to lift off too early.

Either that, or these days Teflonso fanboy pond **** are also blind and deaf, together with all the other stuff they've built up quite the reputation for.


It must really spoil your fun when they let those 23 other cars start the GP, eh?

#13757 Group B

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 21:21

Me thinks he screwed his own race very nicely. His second retirement is now a year over due.

Fact is Roseberg has whipped is backside for two years.

:rolleyes:
Outstanding trolling, but then I wouldn't expect anything else. Only a TROLL would deny MS was faster today, just as only a TROLL would fail to recognise that MS has, at the very least matched KR in recent races, and only a TROLL would be in this thread calling for MS' retirement on a day when Hamilton smashed into his umpteenth victim of the season.

#13758 Clay

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 21:26

:rolleyes:
Outstanding trolling, but then I wouldn't expect anything else. Only a TROLL would deny MS was faster today, just as only a TROLL would fail to recognise that MS has, at the very least matched KR in recent races, and only a TROLL would be in this thread calling for MS' retirement on a day when Hamilton smashed into his umpteenth victim of the season.


I personally don't think he's slow, and I also think he's increasing his speed in comparison to Nico. Also I don't see a reason for him to retire (and honestly I don't care). But said this his crash today was greatly stupid no matter how much excuses he wants to come up. That's why he got the reprimand and not Perez.

Edited by Clay, 25 September 2011 - 21:27.


#13759 Group B

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 21:32

I personally don't think he's slow, and I also think he's increasing his speed in comparison to Nico. Also I don't see a reason for him to retire. But said this his crash today was greatly stupid no matter how much excuses he wants to come up. That's why he got the reprimand and not Perez.

His fault? Yes, perhaps, but essentially a racing incident. Whoever's fault it's a great shame as he was looking mighty quick today, again outshining Nico, and heading for some excellent points. That's the most frustrated I've been since his return, which I think reflects the fact that he was looking a little reminiscent of the old MS.

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#13760 Clay

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 21:38

His fault? Yes, perhaps, but essentially a racing incident.


Agreed about that tho.

#13761 Sakae

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 22:26

Just for reference - has Webber received warning for similar hit? (Was it last year or the previous one)?

#13762 Tardis40

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 00:32

Just ignore the twits. Silence is the best antidote to them.

:)


#13763 cheapracer

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:33

Just for reference - has Webber received warning for similar hit? (Was it last year or the previous one)?


Not the same - Kova was being lapped has to get out of the way while Perez was rightfully in front and allowed to defend.


#13764 cheapracer

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:44

Me thinks he screwed his own race very nicely. His second retirement is now a year over due.

Fact is Roseberg has whipped is backside for two years.


Reality is a bitch


#13765 Scotracer

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:46

Michael was driving very well after his first 'poor' start of the year (i.e. he didn't make up any places!). After each pitstop he was catching Nico lap after lap and would have passed him had he not tried to reach for the stars.

#13766 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:48

Not the same - Kova was being lapped has to get out of the way while Perez was rightfully in front and allowed to defend.


Actually Kovaleinen wasn't beng lapped in that incident, Webber was out of position after an early pitstop.

Ultimately, it isn't relevant to ask why other similar incidents weren't penalised. The only relevant question is whether the incident in question should have been penalised.

#13767 sanW10

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:27

both the Sauber cars have caused similar accident, twice for MS (UK & Singapore) & one with Heidfield in Canada
well theoretically it seems their car are weak in corners, but i still doubt it, maybe Perez learns 'defensive' driving from Koba :p
Why dont MGP ask FIA to take a look at Sauber' telemetry to see whether it was an 'genuine' incident?

#13768 ArchangelX

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:36

Hi all first post here, been a lurker for awhile though.

I think Michael is right...it was a racing incident...Perez braked earlier than he thought he was, Michael was just too close. BOom. That's it and end of story.

I really enjoy watching qualifying laps. I was watching the Singapore q-laps, and something struck me as interesting...if you compare Vettel's Q-lap to Michael's Q-lap...it's really amazing to see how much faster Michael is in some places, where as he loses out slightly in others. In fact, in many places, he looks smoother than Vettel does. It's pretty interesting stuff. I wish I could see the telemetry. I'm sure it tells an interesting story.

#13769 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:42

both the Sauber cars have caused similar accident, twice for MS (UK & Singapore) & one with Heidfield in Canada
well theoretically it seems their car are weak in corners, but i still doubt it, maybe Perez learns 'defensive' driving from Koba :p
Why dont MGP ask FIA to take a look at Sauber' telemetry to see whether it was an 'genuine' incident?


There is one constant in these collisions... Michael Schumacher. Stop the preposterous accusations of a Sauber culture of brake testing, look at the driver who has spent almost two seasons crashing into other cars with regularity.

Schumacher is past it. But nobody in Mercedes or at the FIA has the balls to tell him. One swallow (Monza) does not a summer make.

#13770 engel

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:44

Sauber doesn't have an EBD, their car performs quite differently on corner entry/exit that pretty much any other around it in terms of laptimes. That catches people out, often.

#13771 ArchangelX

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:46

There is one constant in these collisions... Michael Schumacher. Stop the preposterous accusations of a Sauber culture of brake testing, look at the driver who has spent almost two seasons crashing into other cars with regularity.

Schumacher is past it. But nobody in Mercedes or at the FIA has the balls to tell him. One swallow (Monza) does not a summer make.


I really have to laugh when I read stuff like this. He's out there, racing at ungodly speeds with people half his age, and he's only a few tenths of a second off in some parts, which can be attributed to the vehicle he's driving. It's racing, mistakes happen, sometimes they happen alot, sometimes not at all. But saying that Schumacher is past it is so unbelievably asinine.

Such a grandiose statement. He's just as fast as any of the top drivers out there...he's got quite awhile to go before he's "past it".

I love couch racers.

Edited by ArchangelX, 26 September 2011 - 09:47.


#13772 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:58

I really have to laugh when I read stuff like this. He's out there, racing at ungodly speeds with people half his age, and he's only a few tenths of a second off in some parts, which can be attributed to the vehicle he's driving. It's racing, mistakes happen, sometimes they happen alot, sometimes not at all. But saying that Schumacher is past it is so unbelievably asinine.

Such a grandiose statement. He's just as fast as any of the top drivers out there...he's got quite awhile to go before he's "past it".

I love couch racers.


You admit yourself that he is off the pace and crashes a lot.

I wonder how bad he needs to be before you acknowledge that he is past it.

Couch fans eh?

#13773 ArchangelX

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:01

You admit yourself that he is off the pace and crashes a lot.

I wonder how bad he needs to be before you acknowledge that he is past it.

Couch fans eh?


LOL...people like you are the reasons why I hate forums. You're telling me a guy that is consistently within the top 10 is past his prime? Jeez...end of discussion for me, enjoy your e-hate.

#13774 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:03

You admit yourself that he is off the pace and crashes a lot.


Off the pace in regards to whom?

#13775 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:05

Off the pace in regards to whom?


Rosberg, obviously.

#13776 ArchangelX

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:10

Rosberg, obviously.


ROFL...did you even look at the times? Do you pay attention to any of the race? Michael was consistently faster than Rosberg by the mid-pack of the race. I think right up to the accident, he was much, much faster than both Perez and Rosberg.

#13777 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:10

Rosberg, obviously.


Care to bring some numbers into discussion?

For example in the last race they were close to equal in quali and Michael was miles faster in the race.

Which is the trend this season : Nico is faster in quali, Michael in race.

#13778 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:15

ROFL...did you even look at the times? Do you pay attention to any of the race? Michael was consistently faster than Rosberg by the mid-pack of the race. I think right up to the accident, he was much, much faster than both Perez and Rosberg.


While running behind them you mean? And then crashing into Perez, which was Schumachers fault entirely.

The MS fans reel out this long list of excuses and justifications for how fast he was here and how fast he was there and how the team made a mistake and how other drivers got in his way. It's all nonsense. He is architect of his own successes and his own failures. He is consistently outpaced in qualifying by Rosberg, often starts well but slips back, and often ends up making contact with another driver.

The points don't lie.

Edited by sosidge, 26 September 2011 - 10:16.


#13779 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:18

While running behind them you mean? And then crashing into Perez, which was Schumachers fault entirely.

The MS fans reel out this long list of excuses and justifications for how fast he was here and how fast he was there and how the team made a mistake and how other drivers got in his way. It's all nonsense. He is architect of his own successes and his own failures. He is consistently outpaced in qualifying by Rosberg, often starts well but slips back, and often ends up making contact with another driver.


So now reality is an excuse? He was miles faster but was hampered by a bad strategy. You dispute that?

And the last part is nonsense. His contacts were actually when he was at the back for various reasons not when he was fighting at the front.

Points don't lie : 10 points back with one more DNF. So tragic. If at Singapore Merc wouldn't have used an idiotic strategy to accommodate Rosberg he would have been in front.

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 September 2011 - 10:21.


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#13780 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:26

So now reality is an excuse? He was miles faster but was hampered by a bad strateg. ou dispute that?

And the last part is nonsense. His contacts were actually when he was at theback for various reasons not when he was fighting at the front.


This is a spectacular excuse. Being at the back does not justify hitting other cars.

If MS wants to fight at the front he needs to start doing a better job in the car. If he is as fast as you all like to believe he needs to start beating Rosberg on Saturday, and beating him again on the Sunday. No excuses.

#13781 arknor

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:27

While running behind them you mean? And then crashing into Perez, which was Schumachers fault entirely.

The MS fans reel out this long list of excuses and justifications for how fast he was here and how fast he was there and how the team made a mistake and how other drivers got in his way. It's all nonsense. He is architect of his own successes and his own failures. He is consistently outpaced in qualifying by Rosberg, often starts well but slips back, and often ends up making contact with another driver.

The points don't lie.

yea which is why in the race hw was 1-2 secondas a lap fastet than rosberg and only kept behind rosberg because of the team making sure rosberg stayed in the front with the pitstop stratergies..

you are a blatant troll GTFO

Edited by arknor, 26 September 2011 - 10:30.


#13782 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:29

This is a spectacular excuse. Being at the back does not justify hitting other cars.


What excuse? I just pointed out that your post was wrong.

He had plenty of fights at the front in the 4th best car.

And Michael being in the position to fight with Perez had nothing to do with him. It was a simple team cockup.

#13783 Craven Morehead

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:40

The points don't lie.


Yep, you are right: Rosberg 62, Schumacher 52. That's pretty darn close. In other words Nico has scored 54 % of Mercedes points this year & Michael has scored 46%. These numbers are very similar to Jenson and Lewis who have contibuted 53% & 47 % respectively to Macca's overall tally. Yet I don't hear people crying out for Lewis' retirement.

I'd say he's doing pretty good for an old man who's well past it. Felipe Massa, Mark Webber, among other fine drivers would do well to put up similar percentages.

#13784 sosidge

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:40

yea which is why in the race hw was 1-2 secondas a lap fastet than rosberg and only kept behind rosberg because of the team making sure rosberg stayed in the front with the pitstop stratergies..

you are a blatant roll GTFO


More excuses. Michael needs to take results into his own hands. He needs to do a timed lap on Saturday to get in front of Rosberg on the grid. If he is fast in the race, he needs to put himself in front of Rosberg on the track, why should the team do it for him in the pits? The lead car gets the strategy pick.

And if he is fast, he needs to make those positions up without crashing into people. He was at fault for contact with Perez, he was at fault many times before.


#13785 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:45

More excuses. Michael needs to take results into his own hands. He needs to do a timed lap on Saturday to get in front of Rosberg on the grid. If he is fast in the race, he needs to put himself in front of Rosberg on the track, why should the team do it for him in the pits? The lead car gets the strategy pick.


They (team + Michael) decided that it was best to save a set for the race. But this strategy would have worked only if he wouldn't have needed to wait 1-2 laps on gone tires to pit (like it happened).

So the correct strategy would have been to pit Michael first and earlier on the first pitstop. This way neither driver would have been affected. And it probably wouldn't have changed track positions between the drivers. So they would still fight in on track but under similar conditions. Rosberg although being painfully slow was pampered by the team.

And this is a fact : Michael's race was screwed by the strategy. With a good strategy he could have ended 6th.

Edited by Diablobb81, 26 September 2011 - 10:47.


#13786 EdwardCullen

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:53

i think he would have finished 5th again behind Lewis..with his pace he could have overtaken Di resta easily.

#13787 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:56

stop feeding the monkeys guys

#13788 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:59

i think he would have finished 5th again behind Lewis..with his pace he could have overtaken Di resta easily.


Lewis finished 5th.

#13789 EdwardCullen

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 11:15

Lewis finished 5th.

oh sorry my mistake :blush: :lol:

#13790 arknor

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:02

Lewis finished 5th.

but without the safety car caused by michael would he?

#13791 Clay

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:16

stop feeding the monkeys guys


I don't know why every single one of you have the need to insult people who disagree with Schumi fans like that. Well, actually I do know... :lol: But I'm tired of reporting. :stoned:

#13792 sharo

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:22

I don't know why every single one of you have the need to insult people who disagree with Schumi fans like that. Well, actually I do know... :lol: But I'm tired of reporting. :stoned:

Very much doubt you actually know. Better say you think you know.
Otherwise you are just one of the gang going like a broken record "he should go, he should go".

#13793 Group B

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:28

While running behind them you mean? And then crashing into Perez, which was Schumachers fault entirely.

The MS fans reel out this long list of excuses and justifications for how fast he was here and how fast he was there and how the team made a mistake and how other drivers got in his way. It's all nonsense. He is architect of his own successes and his own failures. He is consistently outpaced in qualifying by Rosberg, often starts well but slips back, and often ends up making contact with another driver.

The points don't lie.

Yeah, Rosberg certainly had his number in the last race, and the one before, and the one before that ... :rolleyes:



#13794 BRK

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 13:01

I don't know why every single one of you have the need to insult people who disagree with Schumi fans like that. Well, actually I do know... :lol: But I'm tired of reporting. :stoned:


Because of trolls like you, naturally. People that are rude, don't apply their brains and don't think twice before shooting their mouths off, accusing others of making things up.

You've been here a day and are already camping out on the Schumacher thread: what makes you think anyone takes you seriously? You don't run the thread and Schumacher isn't going to quit being quick and rubbing it in, you can wring your hands all you want and swear at the screen, only going to get yourself banned sooner or later, taking a couple of posters down with you I guess. Here's a hint: my ignore list is full of 20 or so Alonso-fanboys, and all bar a couple are banned from the forum. They all came in all guns blazing trolling on the MS and LH threads, nothing new here.


To the others: Schumacher has been quicker than his teammate for 2-3 races now, he's been quite strong all season long but it hadn't paid off until Spa. If I wanted to be unreasonable I could say if there's anyone that ought to retire it's Rosberg, for being slow, going backwards in the races, and impotent when it comes to the actual racing. Let's see some quality defending from him of the kind Schumacher displayed at Monza, for starters.

#13795 schubacca

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 13:04

Well done for Rosberg :)

I think that MS lost an opportunity, but that is racing....

#13796 salamin

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 13:04

Because of trolls like you, naturally. People that are rude, don't apply their brains and don't think twice before shooting their mouths off, accusing others of making things up.

You've been here a day and are already camping out on the Schumacher thread: what makes you think anyone takes you seriously? You don't run the thread and Schumacher isn't going to quit being quick and rubbing it in, you can wring your hands all you want and swear at the screen, only going to get yourself banned sooner or later, taking a couple of posters down with you I guess. Here's a hint: my ignore list is full of 20 or so Alonso-fanboys, and all bar a couple are banned from the forum. They all came in all guns blazing trolling on the MS and LH threads, nothing new here.


To the others: Schumacher has been quicker than his teammate for 2-3 races now, he's been quite strong all season long but it hadn't paid off until Spa. If I wanted to be unreasonable I could say if there's anyone that ought to retire it's Rosberg, for being slow, going backwards in the races, and impotent when it comes to the actual racing. Let's see some quality defending from him of the kind Schumacher displayed at Monza, for starters.


AMEN

#13797 Clay

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 13:53

Because of trolls like you, naturally. People that are rude, don't apply their brains and don't think twice before shooting their mouths off, accusing others of making things up.

You've been here a day and are already camping out on the Schumacher thread: what makes you think anyone takes you seriously? You don't run the thread and Schumacher isn't going to quit being quick and rubbing it in, you can wring your hands all you want and swear at the screen, only going to get yourself banned sooner or later, taking a couple of posters down with you I guess. Here's a hint: my ignore list is full of 20 or so Alonso-fanboys, and all bar a couple are banned from the forum. They all came in all guns blazing trolling on the MS and LH threads, nothing new here.


To the others: Schumacher has been quicker than his teammate for 2-3 races now, he's been quite strong all season long but it hadn't paid off until Spa. If I wanted to be unreasonable I could say if there's anyone that ought to retire it's Rosberg, for being slow, going backwards in the races, and impotent when it comes to the actual racing. Let's see some quality defending from him of the kind Schumacher displayed at Monza, for starters.


I only said Schumacher did something dangerous and that he was the one to be blame. Never used any kind of swearing or rude language.
If you think I'm wrong that's ok, but insulting over and over again it's not really fair. I guess as I'm right you guys need to rage and insult...

And sorry, this is not a support thread isn't it? YOU don't own this thread so people coming here to bring criticism upon Schumacher doesn't mean we are trolling.

So I'll keep on reporting so then it's up to the mods to decide or just allow you to do that. :)

Edited by Clay, 26 September 2011 - 14:10.


#13798 sanW10

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 14:23

Sauber doesn't have an EBD, their car performs quite differently on corner entry/exit that pretty much any other around it in terms of laptimes. That catches people out, often.

hmmm, didnt think of EBD.

#13799 sharo

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 14:27

Calm down please. One may use the finest language and still be the perfect troll. Same applies with overdoing it with reports.
Have you read the whole thread? I doubt it very much.
But if you have, then you should know which people are here for trolling and who is for a civilized discussion. We are from different parts of the world, carrying different cultures, but it's easy to distinguish good intend from bad.

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#13800 sharo

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 14:30

hmmm, didnt think of EBD.

I also missed that fact and thought there may be something different in their engine/KERS management which results in greater braking effect when lifting.