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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#14051 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:23

Because the incident is being discussed in multiple threads, the Hamilton/Schumacher incident has been split. Please continue here; http://forums.autosp...howtopic=155333

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#14052 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:25

I can't believe this shit. Not for the first time Sauber team outsmart other teams. Take their strategist and fire MGP strategist.

Situation at the moment:
http://www.fia.com/e...ssification.pdf
They say all 4 guys have 2 laps?

http://www.fia.com/e...ying-speeds.pdf
http://www.fia.com/e...ifying-trap.pdf
http://www.fia.com/e...ing-sectors.pdf

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2011 - 08:37.


#14053 BRK

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:46

I think Q2 times are deleted after the session, all cars that haven't started a flying lap are classified according to the car numbers, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's done.

#14054 sharo

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:51

I think Q2 times are deleted after the session, all cars that haven't started a flying lap are classified according to the car numbers, I'm pretty sure that's the way it's done.

No logic in that, IMO.


#14055 spacekid

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:51

If Schumi is 8th then surely Kobi has to start from 7th on the hard tyres he set his Q3 'lap' on. He can't have his cake and eat it... or can he?

That will be crucial for the start.

#14056 sharo

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:55

I think the ordering applies if several drivers have not posted a single valid timed lap for the whole session. But once they have registered timed laps, their times count.
Of course I can't be sure. Too many rules, too many clarifications on them.

Edited by sharo, 08 October 2011 - 08:55.


#14057 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 08:55

If Schumi is 8th then surely Kobi has to start from 7th on the hard tyres he set his Q3 'lap' on. He can't have his cake and eat it... or can he?

That will be crucial for the start.

He only started, but didn't finish. So, he can chose his tyres I think.


#14058 Schumacher7

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:00

He only started, but didn't finish. So, he can chose his tyres I think.

Surely if he gets placed higher on the grid because of that lap then those are the tyres he will have to start on?

#14059 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:13

Surely if he gets placed higher on the grid because of that lap then those are the tyres he will have to start on?

He didn't set time, so he can start on the tyres he chose I think.


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#14060 BRK

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:13

No logic in that, IMO.


I'd agree, though I think that's the way it's been for a while now. Remember when we had Friday qualifying a few years ago, drivers had to head out in reverse order of their finishing positions in the last grand prix, which made no sense whatsoever other than that the winner and podium finishers were likely to get a big advantage as a result of the rubber laid down by the rest.

#14061 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:16

byronf1: Grid still not official which is unusual. stewards pondering over positions around 10th I rather.
27 minutes ago by Byron Young

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2011 - 09:16.


#14062 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:38

If Koba set a fast lap on primes and will be 7th than he has to start on primes.

#14063 ali.unal

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:42

If Koba set a fast lap on primes and will be 7th than he has to start on primes.

But he didn't complete that time either. I think every one has a free tyre choice.

#14064 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:43

If Koba set a fast lap on primes and will be 7th than he has to start on primes.

Primes , no primes, Michael need to overtake him at the start. Or first lap after 130R. Taking no prisoners tomorrow.  ;)

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2011 - 09:44.


#14065 sharo

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:44

Yep, and most logical for me they should start in the order they arrived at Q3. Had Kobayashi posted any valid time in Q3, only then there's ground to move him forward.

#14066 Augurk

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:44

Primes , no primes, Michael need to overtake him at the start. Or first lap after 130R.

In any case, he shouldn't stay too close behind an SSS!

(Suddenly-stopping-Sauber)

#14067 Tarzaan

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:46

byronf1: Grid still not official which is unusual. stewards pondering over positions around 10th I rather.
27 minutes ago by Byron Young



Maybe Hamilton are under investigation.

#14068 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:48

In any case, he shouldn't stay too close behind an SSS!

(Suddenly-stopping-Sauber)

Yeah, never stay behind Sauber in the corner, out of the corner.


#14069 Igorr

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:30

if he is 7th, he is taking webber 100% considering how good he is on the starts, and how bad webber is.

#14070 FlashMaster

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:37

@F1Lite REVISED JAPAN GP GRID: 1. Vettel 2. Button 3. Hamilton 4. Massa 5. Alonso 6. Webber 7. Kobayashi 8. Schumacher 9. Senna 10. Petrov. #F1


Well done MGP!

#14071 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:44

Well done MGP!

Idiots. Wasn't it necessary Michael to wait so long after they saw what Koba did? He just needed to do the same and to cover Koba.


#14072 Wade

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:48

Bravo! Hurray!

They strike again. What a surprise!

smfh.

#14073 Urawa

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 10:57

it shouldn´t change the end result for tomorrow if everything is going to plan but still really unnecessary and makes it a bit harder to achieve P7

#14074 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:36

I don't really see the fuss. It's not 2010 here...cars can pass each other and Michael has a faster one plus DRS. He's also a great starter but it's pretty much the same 7th or 8th

#14075 sharo

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:37

I don't fully agree. Having Koba starting behind is not the same as having him right in front of your nose (and wing) :)

#14076 Juan Kerr

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:44

Michael will out-drag Kob into the first corner but Kob will probably get all 'japanese' in the heat of the moment and go slamming into someone (Massa?), Michael will stick tight to the inside of turn 1 and 2 like he did in 2005 and probably pick off Massa who will have already been picked off by Alonso. That's may educated prediction.

#14077 Lelouch

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 12:12

Can anyone tell us how many engines has Michael used up to now?

#14078 cheapracer

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 13:06

Michael will out-drag Kob into the first corner but Kob will probably get all 'Japanese' in the heat of the moment


No, MS is on the dirty side and to be honest I think it may be a blessing that Koba is in front.



#14079 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 13:19

Schumacher said that there's little difference between the "dirty" and the "clean" side at this track.

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#14080 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 13:24

Can anyone tell us how many engines has Michael used up to now?

He used them all, now he just reuse engines. No new engines. I think only Renault guys have new engine left.

Edited by ivand911, 08 October 2011 - 13:25.


#14081 Longtimefan

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 15:01

I'm quite dreading the start.

I know Michael is very good here but with Bruno behind him and Kamui in front I think it will be a miracle if he doesn't lose a front wing or some parts on the 1st lap. :|

#14082 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 15:20

Second race in a row Merc screwed up strategy wise. Meh

#14083 weston

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:29

Second race in a row Merc screwed up strategy wise. Meh


On the starting grid slow starter Webber is in front of him. Kamui "Kamikaze" Kobayashi is next to him. Petrov is at the rear wing. Perfect storm.

#14084 ivand911

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:37

On the starting grid slow starter Webber is in front of him. Kamui "Kamikaze" Kobayashi is next to him. Petrov is at the rear wing. Perfect storm.

Why to do it easy, when you can do it the hard way. I hope he will careful at the start.


#14085 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:41

What the heck...some of you should focus on rallying. Wow Ms has to race...

Guess what, that's what he does best. It's not like he's 10 spot bellow car's potential

#14086 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 16:50

Actually, "slow starter" Webber is a good chance for him. His best way out of the mess that is likely to happen at the start. We can certainly agree that behind third row, the VP, KK, BS, AS quartet is a ticking bomb at the start. Also, I am quite interested in the start of NR. It is a very telling part of racecraft not to get into trouble when you start from the last spot, with a relative frontrunner car. He should be ok, but has to keep his cool.

#14087 Unbiased

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 17:24

Schumacher and Kobayashi are 2 of the best starters so they probably won't exchange positions at the start. They will both pass Webber and whoever has a problem. And later on in the race Schumacher gets Kobayashi because he is in the much faster car or in the pits.

Been a long time since I was excited about an F1 race, the setting is perfect, let's go :up:



#14088 spacekid

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 17:24

Actually, "slow starter" Webber is a good chance for him. His best way out of the mess that is likely to happen at the start.


Unfortunately I see it differently to this. If Webber starts slow Schumi is directly behind him. Its a narrow track and Schumi will have nowhere to go except stay behind Webber. What he needs is Webber to make a lightning start and follow him, thats the best chance to get ahead of Kobi. If he gets stuck behind the never pitting Sauber its all over.


#14089 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 17:38

Unfortunately I see it differently to this. If Webber starts slow Schumi is directly behind him. Its a narrow track and Schumi will have nowhere to go except stay behind Webber. What he needs is Webber to make a lightning start and follow him, thats the best chance to get ahead of Kobi. If he gets stuck behind the never pitting Sauber its all over.


IMHO, it isn't that narrow. But still, you could be right, although I hope not. we will see tonight, morning, dawn, whatever.

#14090 Tardis40

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 18:03

Schumacher will figure on getting Webber at the start. What he has to worry about is Petrov rear-ending him.

#14091 ali.unal

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 18:22

Schumacher said that there's little difference between the "dirty" and the "clean" side at this track.

Which reminds me 1990 Japanese GP.

#14092 Lelouch

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 19:01

Schumacher will figure on getting Webber at the start. What he has to worry about is Petrov rear-ending him.


If he manages to put Webber between him and the rest after the start it will be great ( woops Massa vs Webber is crossing my mind now :p )
It's really like a ticking bomb behind him so i just hope he can edge KK and Webber at the start and despite being on the dirty side i think a great first lap is possible as the grid is, that hamilton massa alonso webber quarter can give him a chance me thinks..

//Edit: thnx for the engine info ivand911 :)

Edited by Lelouch, 08 October 2011 - 19:02.


#14093 arknor

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:21

If he manages to put Webber between him and the rest after the start it will be great ( woops Massa vs Webber is crossing my mind now :p )
It's really like a ticking bomb behind him so i just hope he can edge KK and Webber at the start and despite being on the dirty side i think a great first lap is possible as the grid is, that hamilton massa alonso webber quarter can give him a chance me thinks..

//Edit: thnx for the engine info ivand911 :)

schumacher will probably get taken out before the first chicane

Edited by arknor, 08 October 2011 - 20:22.


#14094 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 20:23

schumacher will probably get taken out before the first chicane

Huh?

#14095 Kubiccia

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 21:15

Schumacher and Kobayashi are 2 of the best starters so they probably won't exchange positions at the start. They will both pass Webber and whoever has a problem. And later on in the race Schumacher gets Kobayashi because he is in the much faster car or in the pits.

I think Sauber will be faster than Mercedes on race pace. :well:

#14096 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 21:25

I think Sauber will be faster than Mercedes on race pace. :well:


Why would you say that? I had seen no data that underlines this. (genuine question)

Edited by Szoelloe, 08 October 2011 - 21:25.


#14097 george1981

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 21:59

I think MS will angle his car towards the middle of the track when lining up on the grid and as soon as he gets going will put himself in the middle of the track. That way should Webber get a bad start (which wouldn't be a surprise) MS will be able to pass him.

#14098 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 22:09

I think MS will angle his car towards the middle of the track when lining up on the grid and as soon as he gets going will put himself in the middle of the track. That way should Webber get a bad start (which wouldn't be a surprise) MS will be able to pass him.


Now that's quite specific. Will be an interesting start to watch. :)


#14099 Lelouch

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 22:44

schumacher will probably get taken out before the first chicane


yeah right that's too probable indeed, MGP messing up, losing one position on the grid, the signs are ominous i know but i want to have peaceful thoughts before going to bed! :p


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#14100 Kubiccia

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 23:59

Why would you say that? I had seen no data that underlines this. (genuine question)

Sauber was already almost as quick as Mercedes in qualifying and the difference between qualy pace and race pace have always been big regarding Sauber and Mercedes, this year.

I mean, Sauber always is much better in races than in qualifying and conversely, Mercedes is always better in qualifying than races. Plus, tire wear is high in Suzuka and Mercedes is a tire eater while Sauber is very gentle to the tires.

As a result, if nobody ahead of Schumi, in the grid, have a DNF, then I think 8th is the best possible.