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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#14251 ali.unal

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:44

Well, I just don't like, never liked, the way VresiBerba is treating Schumacher's way of driving or legacy for that matter or his comeback, but that doesn't mean whatever he's saying should be interpreted as trolling or bashing. I kind of agree with him in that Schumacher didn't do "what a start", but a good one. Not bad, not particularly great as opposed to starts he made this year, but a respectable one. He was right there with Webber, nearly overtook him. Nice effort.

What caught my eye more in the race is the ability of him coping with the tyres when team forgot to change front wing settings. He was very slow along esses, trying to protect them. That is a very good sign for 2012 in terms of tyre management and understanding. Giving me hope that he could stay on board 2013 onwards, which would give VresiBerba plenty of opportunity also staying on board and spending more time in Schumacher's thread(s).

Pun intended.
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#14252 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:45

now looking forward to Korea, another track that Schumi likes, and was very close to the podium last year, so it should be interesting.

Was a bit fortunate with the Webber and Rosberg crash mind you.

#14253 JtP1

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:47

The most impressive thing about MS in Japan was that he set the fastest 3rd sector time of the race. That being the bit that contains the 130R. So no lack of total commitment there.

#14254 salamin

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:49

The most impressive thing about MS in Japan was that he set the fastest 3rd sector time of the race. That being the bit that contains the 130R. So no lack of total commitment there.


and it was on primes IIRC

#14255 TheBunk

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:49

The most impressive thing about MS in Japan was that he set the fastest 3rd sector time of the race. That being the bit that contains the 130R. So no lack of total commitment there.


I liked his controlled, clever thinking throughout too. This is why he won 7 titles.

#14256 ali.unal

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 12:52

The most impressive thing about MS in Japan was that he set the fastest 3rd sector time of the race. That being the bit that contains the 130R. So no lack of total commitment there.

And don't forget the chicane. Sebastian Vettel was behind Jenson Button in his hot lap of qualifying until the chicane, where he earned his pole position due to better line he took compared to Button.

I remember Ross Brawn saying that there was nothing to choose between two drivers in high speed sections but Nico managed to gain time on Schumacher in slow corners. Schumacher must have made a step forward on that area too. OK, 130R is a quite fast corner but with these engines, any driver could go there flat out. It's the chicanes and technical corners that would do create the difference. I believe this wasn't Schumacher's strong suit after his comeback. Now, he seems to find his groove on that too. Very very promising.

#14257 Igorr

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:14

Was a bit fortunate with the Webber and Rosberg crash mind you.

well you could say that, plus vetted had an engine problem, but still the pace was very good, he also managed to overtook button in the race, so it remains to be seen. Time will tell :)
It is still very hard to get more than P7 in the race unless some of the front guys have issues. If its a case like today, with good strategy and consistent race-pace, i think that even P5 is possible, considering how close he was to hamilton at the late stage of the race.

Edited by Igorr, 09 October 2011 - 13:14.


#14258 george1981

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:36

I think MS strong result may have been due to Nico starting at the back meaning that both drivers were on completely different strategies and the team didn't have to compromise one driver over another.

#14259 ivand911

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:52

I think MS strong result may have been due to Nico starting at the back meaning that both drivers were on completely different strategies and the team didn't have to compromise one driver over another.

This help too. They usually compromise MS race for Nico, who as we know usually start ahead. But, with MS recent form he wouldn't have problem to catch and pass Nico in the race. In Singapore MS was just one driver away to do this.


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#14260 Jejking

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 13:58

What the BBC commentators mentioned in the race when Schumacher was leading it, he was the oldest one (of all time?) to be ahead of the rest since Jack Brabham in 196x? Can someone elaborate?

#14261 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 14:11

I see that Brabham won a race in 1970, aged 43 and 339 days.

#14262 ivand911

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 14:11

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#14263 spacekid

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 14:36

Well, I just don't like, never liked, the way VresiBerba is treating Schumacher's way of driving or legacy for that matter or his comeback, but that doesn't mean whatever he's saying should be interpreted as trolling or bashing. I kind of agree with him in that Schumacher didn't do "what a start", but a good one. Not bad, not particularly great as opposed to starts he made this year, but a respectable one. He was right there with Webber, nearly overtook him. Nice effort.


Agree entirely. Sometimes its hard to separate a posters attitude/history from the fact they have a point. The start was fine, not the best of the season. It doesn't do to get bogged down in semantics like that, the bickering just clutters the place up.

I agree with the rest of your post too. Schumi is now in tune with this formula and showed he understands what he needs to do to get the best race performance from the car. I actually think he is improving and can get better than he is at the moment.


#14264 Rol

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 15:09

Brilliant drive from Michael, 10/10 for me!
P6 is great, having a bit of luck with the SC and none of it at the start :cool:

I think his start was perfect. Taking the outside line was the best decision and he was already ahead of Webber, which would have given him P6 at turn 2. It was only the Ferraris which ruined these tactics, since the one on the outside at turn 1 got behind at the inside of turn 2, and thus Michael had to back off before Webber. Bad luck here, but anyway Michael managed it beautifully, taking all the risks that made sense, but not more this time.

His 3rd stint of softs was also great, nicely taking care of tyres to gain P6 from Massa. Obviously he was lucky to have Rosberg holding up Hamilton and Massa, but this needed also a Schumi at his best, taking 1,5 secs/lap of them. If only Rosberg could defend position one more lap, Schumi have had a good chance of taking P5 from Hamilton.

Michael is clearly back to the form he once had. :cool: I am not so sure about Mercedes, it still seems to be a clear No4, and not quite getting closer in lap times to the top teams. What they seemed to have changed is to put Micheal on a set-up that makes him super fast in overtaking zones. They probably compromise qualifying and race lap times, but that way the have a good chance of keeping gained positions at starts and SC periods. Looks like in spite of DRS, overtaking Michael in a Mercedes is not a piece of cake like it used to be in the beginning of the year. So I bet Mercedes race tactics is improving, but overall the car is only slightly improving, I do not know how much the general speed can be improved for the 2012 car. How much difference will Costa, Willis and all the new recruits make? Anyway Michael's enormous work surely deserves a championship contending car.






#14265 Paco

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 18:13

Could be. I know this isn't the thread for NR but I think it would be a mistake to go to Ferrari. McLaren are happy with their current lineup, Webber stays for 2012 at RBR.



:p

Hamilton beginning to look a bit like Vilenueve.


how so??? McLaren are still a tier 1 team. Williams was on old Meca engine and then he left to form his own team.. 1x champion is about the only comparison to be had.

#14266 BRK

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 20:09

how so??? McLaren are still a tier 1 team. Williams was on old Meca engine and then he left to form his own team.. 1x champion is about the only comparison to be had.


Just an impression, I think there's parallels to be found. Both enormously talented and exploded into the sport, quickly polarized the fanbase (hype or not), then somehow began to fade away for a number of reasons that were not always out of their control. More importantly I think Hamilton's beginning to lose his position and popularity within McLaren with Button's arrival, something that I honestly think did happen with JV at BAR. (especially after they took Panis onboard) Also get the feeling Hamilton's about to take a serious decision that could ruin his career (like moving to RBR on a spur, say if the McLaren-LH relationship sours further or, conversely, sticking with McL even if their fortunes tumble in the years to come) Too much speculation but just a gut feeling, that's all.

I think 2011 was just a blip for Hamilton, though, I'm sure he'll be back in form next year. Anyway, wrong thread, sorry for the OT.

#14267 cheapracer

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 22:49

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Tell me what troubles you Grasshopper..


#14268 Sakae

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 22:52

Tell me what troubles you Grasshopper..

In Japan this gesture means only one thing, namely, NO!

#14269 HaPe

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 23:11

No. I saw him rocket passed Kobayashi, who stalled, and nearly stopped. Shumi basically started 7th and was 7th after the first lap. That isn't something to WOW over. But then again, as little there is to WOW over Shumi these days, I guess this is as good as it gets.

Ridiculous. :rotfl:

He startet 8th ...and challenged Webber who started 6th(!!) into the first corner.
Can't call that anything but a very good start

#14270 exmayol

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 00:00

Now with MS clearly getting on top of his game I hope the next MGP car will at least shorten the gap to the leaders. Podiums and possibly wins will come naturally then.

#14271 BiH

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 00:47

schumacher is definitely on his game again


don't know if everyone has onboard channel highlights available but

when schumacher was leading the race and there was onboard with button as he caught up with schumacher


going into hairpin button was right on schumacher rear wing, jenson attempted to go deeper under braking and cut on inside to use the fresher tyres traction like everyone was doing all race

but wise schumacher knew what button had in mind positioned his car and prevented inside line of hairpin

Edited by BiH, 10 October 2011 - 00:48.


#14272 Craven Morehead

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 06:12

Yes, he's definitely looking very good these days. Good for him. I'd love to see him back on the podium. Hope MGP can give him a decent car soon because he's not getting any younger. It would be great if he could take the fight to the big three teams.

#14273 teejay

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 06:22

Im liking MS v2 - still fighting, still got skill. Good to see him lead a race.

#14274 Igorr

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 06:29

Since Spa Michael has a great pace, so this is not a one time thing. I am very hopeful of next year, that MGP will produce a better car. Imagine Nico and Michael mixing in the top 3 teams, it'll be an epic season.

#14275 salamin

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 09:49

MS the oldest driver to lead a race since 1970

#14276 GoRacing

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 09:49

Korea is going to be an even bigger exercise in tyre management with SS and softs. Pirelli is expecting SS to degrade very quickly and have openly said they would like teams to run much of their races on softs. This could be the race where even top teams in Q3 could choose to do their qualifying on the softs. I fully expect MS to do this.

#14277 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 10:39

MS the oldest driver to lead a race since 1970

Watch out for the next season. He will beat this record every race. I hope.


#14278 ivand911

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 12:59

Button: SU SU (10) SU (20) MN (36) 3
Alonso: SU SU (10) SU (21) MN (37) 3
Vettel: SU SU (9) SU (19) MN (33) 3
Webber: SU SU (10) SU (19) MN (34) 3
Hamilton: SU SU (8) SU (21) MN (35) 3
Schumacher: SU SU (9) SN (24) MN (41) 3
Massa: SU SU (11) SU (22) MN (36)
Sutil: SU SN (8) SU (23) MN (37) 3
Di Resta: SU SN (10) SU (24) MN (35)
Barrichello: SU SU (12) SN (24) MN (37) 3
Kovalainen: SN SU (10) SU (22) MN (37) 3
Trulli: SN SU (11) SU (24) MN (38) 3
Glock: SN SU (12) SU (19) MN (36) 3
D’Ambrosio: SN SU (13) SU (23) MN (37) 3
Ricciardo: SN SU (11) SU (22) MN (38)

It is strange how MS managed to use the soft tyres longer than anyone ahead of him. His second pitstop was forced by safety car. Or it come in the best moment for MS? I don't think it was only because of having one new set and one only two laps old set.

Edited by ivand911, 10 October 2011 - 13:06.


#14279 sharo

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:02

He had to. There was a comment here that the mechanics forgot to tune the angle of his front wing.

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#14280 engel

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:06

Button: SU SU (10) SU (20) MN (36) 3
Alonso: SU SU (10) SU (21) MN (37) 3
Vettel: SU SU (9) SU (19) MN (33) 3
Webber: SU SU (10) SU (19) MN (34) 3
Hamilton: SU SU (8) SU (21) MN (35) 3
Schumacher: SU SU (9) SN (24) MN (41) 3
Massa: SU SU (11) SU (22) MN (36)

It is strange how MS managed to use the soft tyres longer than anyone. His second pitstop was forced by safety car. Or it come in the best moment for MS? I don't think it was only because of having one new set and one only two laps old set.


Michael was being visibly very easy on the car on Ss, which were a lot of the "damage" at least temp wise happens

#14281 Igorr

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:12

yea he had a very good tyre management on the last sting, considering the last 15 laps 0.5 seconds in front of massa and managing to maintain that gap every lap was incredible. Watching the sectors timing on f1 live timing for 20 laps was intense... they were very close

#14282 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:30

Since Spa Michael has a great pace, so this is not a one time thing. I am very hopeful of next year, that MGP will produce a better car. Imagine Nico and Michael mixing in the top 3 teams, it'll be an epic season.


Since Spain I say, well not "great pace" but better than Rosberg.

Recently he's had great pace as you say, maybe he's found a way with the tyres.

#14283 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:34

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?

source: http://www.f1pulse.c...ed-webbers-race

#14284 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:43

He is not blaming MS.

#14285 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:00

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?

source: http://www.f1pulse.c...ed-webbers-race


Does he mean that MS was lucky that the contact did not puncture his rear tyre? :rolleyes:

Edited by GoRacing, 11 October 2011 - 12:00.


#14286 cheapracer

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:09

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?


Maybe that MS didn't spin or cut his rear tyre, MS got very sideways.

But what was Webber doing behind MS - "..as I was trying to come back through the pack,” Webber said. - seems to be his story for the whole year, the guy should be fighting for second - is it Mark Barichelo or Rubens Webber?

Enjoying the Jenson thread too, old timers doing well at the moment but while there came across the quotes of Jackie "you know I was a Grand Prix driver and in my day .." Stewart and Eddie Irvine both who were adamant that Button would never be able to touch Hamilton - consistent aren't they (relative to this thread) :lol:


#14287 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:24

Since Spain I say, well not "great pace" but better than Rosberg.

Recently he's had great pace as you say, maybe he's found a way with the tyres.

he's also outscored nico from china on

#14288 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:30

The most pleasing thing is how MS is maximizing the potential of the car during races by getting the set ups more or less correct. He's said this over the last 3-4 races. I hope the trend continues and it bodes well if the car is better next year.

#14289 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:35

The most pleasing thing is how MS is maximizing the potential of the car during races by getting the set ups more or less correct. He's said this over the last 3-4 races. I hope the trend continues and it bodes well if the car is better next year.


Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.

#14290 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:40

Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.

#14291 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:45

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.


Fair enough :)

#14292 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:46

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.

If this happens, I won't be surprised if you demand a new title in order to be sure. :p
I don't care if he's completely or partially back. I simply enjoy the fact that he does what few men can do at his age.

#14293 salamin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:46

Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.


I think the success of the last few races might be down to some extrem setups, like Monza and Japan.
Driving with less RW promotes oversteering which is to MS's liking, and helped him in booth cases to fend of McLarens/Ferraris.
However it's still a secret to me how he did a purple S3 in Suzuka, considering he didn't use DRS and had primes on (shitty acceleration out of chicane).

#14294 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:52

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.

#14295 ali.unal

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:54

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.

Is that possible Michael set up his car for S3 just to be able to defend when the car behind got its DRS active? If he's 1 second behind at 130R, he would extend the gap once DRS is active on the straight. Err.

#14296 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:56

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.


Yes, I think he will do the same in Korea. Set up his car to be fastest in S1 with the straights and then use his skill to keep faster cars behind in S2 and S3 (i.e. if this situation arises).

#14297 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:56

Is that possible Michael set up his car for S3 just to be able to defend when the car behind got its DRS active? If he's 1 second behind at 130R, he would extend the gap once DRS is active on the straight. Err.


Judging from the live timing that's what was happening when Massa chased him.

Edited by sharo, 11 October 2011 - 13:57.


#14298 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:01

If this happens, I won't be surprised if you demand a new title in order to be sure. :p
I don't care if he's completely or partially back. I simply enjoy the fact that he does what few men can do at his age.

Mate, in the F1 world, there's perhaps nothing I want to see more than Schumacher winning a WDC on merit for Mercedes. :p

And I agree about just enjoying watching him race. It's likely that without a race-winning car, we won't see him on the top step of the podium again, so as long as he's got the machinery he has now, I'm enjoying every decent points finish as if it were a podium from days of old. :lol:

#14299 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:01

If you watched Massa's onboard he was hitting the rev limiter on the pit straight. Something's funny about the way Schumi is setting up the car. I mean if other cars are hitting the rev limiter and are no where close to pass you then you are running some serious high revs. Which makes me ponder, I know Suzuka is a fast circuit but it would be hurting him a lot more in terms of lap time if he goes for such high revs. I guess he can drive faster if he gets his gearing down.

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#14300 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:02

......
as if it were a podium from days of old. :lol:

Same here :)