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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#14301 engel

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:06

Button: SU SU (10) SU (20) MN (36) 3
Alonso: SU SU (10) SU (21) MN (37) 3
Vettel: SU SU (9) SU (19) MN (33) 3
Webber: SU SU (10) SU (19) MN (34) 3
Hamilton: SU SU (8) SU (21) MN (35) 3
Schumacher: SU SU (9) SN (24) MN (41) 3
Massa: SU SU (11) SU (22) MN (36)

It is strange how MS managed to use the soft tyres longer than anyone. His second pitstop was forced by safety car. Or it come in the best moment for MS? I don't think it was only because of having one new set and one only two laps old set.


Michael was being visibly very easy on the car on Ss, which were a lot of the "damage" at least temp wise happens

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#14302 Igorr

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:12

yea he had a very good tyre management on the last sting, considering the last 15 laps 0.5 seconds in front of massa and managing to maintain that gap every lap was incredible. Watching the sectors timing on f1 live timing for 20 laps was intense... they were very close

#14303 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 10 October 2011 - 13:30

Since Spa Michael has a great pace, so this is not a one time thing. I am very hopeful of next year, that MGP will produce a better car. Imagine Nico and Michael mixing in the top 3 teams, it'll be an epic season.


Since Spain I say, well not "great pace" but better than Rosberg.

Recently he's had great pace as you say, maybe he's found a way with the tyres.

#14304 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:34

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?

source: http://www.f1pulse.c...ed-webbers-race

#14305 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:43

He is not blaming MS.

#14306 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:00

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?

source: http://www.f1pulse.c...ed-webbers-race


Does he mean that MS was lucky that the contact did not puncture his rear tyre? :rolleyes:

Edited by GoRacing, 11 October 2011 - 12:00.


#14307 cheapracer

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 12:09

What a loser Webber is. He now blames Schumacher for his misfortunes. What does he mean when he says Michael got away with it?


Maybe that MS didn't spin or cut his rear tyre, MS got very sideways.

But what was Webber doing behind MS - "..as I was trying to come back through the pack,” Webber said. - seems to be his story for the whole year, the guy should be fighting for second - is it Mark Barichelo or Rubens Webber?

Enjoying the Jenson thread too, old timers doing well at the moment but while there came across the quotes of Jackie "you know I was a Grand Prix driver and in my day .." Stewart and Eddie Irvine both who were adamant that Button would never be able to touch Hamilton - consistent aren't they (relative to this thread) :lol:


#14308 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:24

Since Spain I say, well not "great pace" but better than Rosberg.

Recently he's had great pace as you say, maybe he's found a way with the tyres.

he's also outscored nico from china on

#14309 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:30

The most pleasing thing is how MS is maximizing the potential of the car during races by getting the set ups more or less correct. He's said this over the last 3-4 races. I hope the trend continues and it bodes well if the car is better next year.

#14310 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:35

The most pleasing thing is how MS is maximizing the potential of the car during races by getting the set ups more or less correct. He's said this over the last 3-4 races. I hope the trend continues and it bodes well if the car is better next year.


Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.

#14311 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:40

Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.

#14312 schubacca

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:45

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.


Fair enough :)

#14313 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:46

I think that might be a bit of a stretch, yes. :p He's getting the most he can out of the car at the moment, but I still feel we won't know if he's completely 'back' until he beats Rosberg in a race-winning car.

If this happens, I won't be surprised if you demand a new title in order to be sure. :p
I don't care if he's completely or partially back. I simply enjoy the fact that he does what few men can do at his age.

#14314 salamin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:46

Is it too much to say that he is perhaps driving as competently as any of the front runners in F1 at the moment?

I think that he is really extracting the most out of the machinery.


I think the success of the last few races might be down to some extrem setups, like Monza and Japan.
Driving with less RW promotes oversteering which is to MS's liking, and helped him in booth cases to fend of McLarens/Ferraris.
However it's still a secret to me how he did a purple S3 in Suzuka, considering he didn't use DRS and had primes on (shitty acceleration out of chicane).

#14315 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:52

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.

#14316 ali.unal

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:54

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.

Is that possible Michael set up his car for S3 just to be able to defend when the car behind got its DRS active? If he's 1 second behind at 130R, he would extend the gap once DRS is active on the straight. Err.

#14317 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:56

The great sector times in S3 were key in holding Massa behind him, seeing how they just preceded the DRS zone.


Yes, I think he will do the same in Korea. Set up his car to be fastest in S1 with the straights and then use his skill to keep faster cars behind in S2 and S3 (i.e. if this situation arises).

#14318 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 13:56

Is that possible Michael set up his car for S3 just to be able to defend when the car behind got its DRS active? If he's 1 second behind at 130R, he would extend the gap once DRS is active on the straight. Err.


Judging from the live timing that's what was happening when Massa chased him.

Edited by sharo, 11 October 2011 - 13:57.


#14319 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:01

If this happens, I won't be surprised if you demand a new title in order to be sure. :p
I don't care if he's completely or partially back. I simply enjoy the fact that he does what few men can do at his age.

Mate, in the F1 world, there's perhaps nothing I want to see more than Schumacher winning a WDC on merit for Mercedes. :p

And I agree about just enjoying watching him race. It's likely that without a race-winning car, we won't see him on the top step of the podium again, so as long as he's got the machinery he has now, I'm enjoying every decent points finish as if it were a podium from days of old. :lol:

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#14320 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:01

If you watched Massa's onboard he was hitting the rev limiter on the pit straight. Something's funny about the way Schumi is setting up the car. I mean if other cars are hitting the rev limiter and are no where close to pass you then you are running some serious high revs. Which makes me ponder, I know Suzuka is a fast circuit but it would be hurting him a lot more in terms of lap time if he goes for such high revs. I guess he can drive faster if he gets his gearing down.

#14321 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:02

......
as if it were a podium from days of old. :lol:

Same here :)

#14322 salamin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:05

If you watched Massa's onboard he was hitting the rev limiter on the pit straight. Something's funny about the way Schumi is setting up the car. I mean if other cars are hitting the rev limiter and are no where close to pass you then you are running some serious high revs. Which makes me ponder, I know Suzuka is a fast circuit but it would be hurting him a lot more in terms of lap time if he goes for such high revs. I guess he can drive faster if he gets his gearing down.


well his S1 times were kinda shitty (with the esses requiring lot of DF) - but it seems to have worked out :up:

#14323 GoRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:08

well his S1 times were kinda shitty (with the esses requiring lot of DF) - but it seems to have worked out :up:


I guess he could have gone faster in S1, but he was lifting so much to preserve tyres, but as you say, it worked!

#14324 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:14

If only someone could figure out if he is running less wing or higher revs or maybe a combo of both. If you are gonna take it easy through the Ss to protect your tyres then i guess you don't want that much wing anyway. Does having more wing protect your tyres???

#14325 arknor

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:21

If only someone could figure out if he is running less wing or higher revs or maybe a combo of both. If you are gonna take it easy through the Ss to protect your tyres then i guess you don't want that much wing anyway. Does having more wing protect your tyres???

on the odd onboard in the S's he was almost lifting off completely, i think he just didnt ant to kil his tyres, he had the fastest last sector time off the race though by a couple of tenths i think it was :up:

so even if he was losing time he would more than likely have been making it up

#14326 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:22

If only someone could figure out if he is running less wing or higher revs or maybe a combo of both. If you are gonna take it easy through the Ss to protect your tyres then i guess you don't want that much wing anyway. Does having more wing protect your tyres???

you can't run higher revs since you're rev-capped.
I think he runs a bit less rear downforce and a bit longer gearing for 7th

#14327 Jomyboy

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:30

you can't run higher revs since you're rev-capped.
I think he runs a bit less rear downforce and a bit longer gearing for 7th



oops, thanks for correcting me on that one. Longer Gear Ratios!!!!

But can anyone answer me on this please, if you are intending to take it easy with the tyre and not go flat out through corners why would anybody want to run more wing???

#14328 salamin

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:34

oops, thanks for correcting me on that one. Longer Gear Ratios!!!!

But can anyone answer me on this please, if you are intending to take it easy with the tyre and not go flat out through corners why would anybody want to run more wing???


I'd guess:
more wing > more DF/grip > more speed through corners w/o sliding too much which destroys tyres

#14329 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 14:57

actually more wing means less sliding at the same speed -> less tyre wear

#14330 arknor

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 15:07

actually more wing means less sliding at the same speed -> less tyre wear

more grip = more heat in the tyres to though, i think pretty much every team had a problem with tyres overheating in suzuka and schumacher found a solution to this problem

#14331 Kubiccia

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:36

Is anybody interested in Schumacher onboards from Suzuka qualifying and FP?



#14332 arknor

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:44

Is anybody interested in Schumacher onboards from Suzuka qualifying and FP?

no i would love to see massa onboards when he was chasing schumacher though :(

#14333 dav115

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 17:50

Is anybody interested in Schumacher onboards from Suzuka qualifying and FP?

Does it show the Hamilton incident in Q3? *Edit* Either way I'd love to see them if you have a link :) .

Edited by dav115, 11 October 2011 - 17:50.


#14334 Poep

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:07

I doubt he set the car up specially for Sector 3. How do guys you explain his sector time in Qualifying? They were not outstanding enough to say he set it up for that sector.....right?

#14335 sharo

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 18:32

Didn't post time in Q3. We can't be sure.

#14336 Tarzaan

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 20:18

Hill doubts Vettel can rival Schumacher

Damon Hill has cast doubts on Sebastian Vettel's ability to take seven world titles in a more competitive era of F1 racing.

http://www.crash.net...schumacher.html

#14337 exmayol

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 22:19

These never ending talks of more competetive F1 is BS. Ferrari / MS dominance is what made everyone else look less competetive.

#14338 arknor

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 00:05

These never ending talks of more competetive F1 is BS. Ferrari / MS dominance is what made everyone else look less competetive.

same as the drivers are better than ever rubbish..

you telling me alonso , webber , button, rubens massa... are now super awesome compared to the schumacher era? if anything its less competitive because theres more pay drivers than ever and only 1 team is winning everything.

atleast in the schumacher years he always had a rival

#14339 Jomyboy

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 04:56

The Schumacher era was something totally different. I guess the MS/Ferrari combo had just about the same advantage as Vettel/RBR are having now. The only difference being, back then they were too perfect. In a world when the probability of something going wrong is quite high, you have a six-sigma certified season. Vettel and RBR may have won this season easily, but it certainly does not look anywhere close to the domination of Schumi/Ferrari days. People talk about the pack being a whole lot more competitive now. I don't think its as easy as that. When Schumacher retired in 2006, the grid started looking a whole lot more competitive. 2007-2008-2009 seasons were mega simply because you never knew what was going to happen come raceday or even championship wise. Suddenly F1 became as competitive as it was during the mansell-prost-senna years. I can't remember where I heard it, but it was Alonso who said that with Schumacher as a competitor everything had to be perfect. I guess what he meant was that to win against Schumacher as a competitor you had to be on the game day in and day out. And now things have changed. Maybe in the years to come Vettel may become better as a driver and may even outshine Schumacher, but currently it doesn't require perfection to win a title.

All in all, the FIA knew how good and how deadly the Schumacher/Ferrari combo had begun and they tried bloody hard to beat them. I don't think that can ever be said of any driver in the history of motorsport where the FIA comes out with new rules simply to stop somebody winning. Okay maybe there was some back channel tough talking with Williams after the 92 season, but I think Williams had missed the deadline to fill in the entry or something and the FIA said that if you still wanted in you needed to get rid of the active suspension. So as might as the Williams were, they still goofed up :)

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#14340 BRK

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:02

These never ending talks of more competetive F1 is BS. Ferrari / MS dominance is what made everyone else look less competetive.


This. If Schumacher hadn't made it to F1 imagine the kind of 'competitive era' we would've seen, Hakkinen, Hill, JV, Montoya, Raikkonen, Alonso, all world champions, three-way battles for the championship between McLaren, BMW-Williams and Renault. Hell, even DC would've had a title! Exciting. :smoking: Which is what we're seeing today..

#14341 GoRacing

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:48

Does it show the Hamilton incident in Q3? *Edit* Either way I'd love to see them if you have a link :) .


I would like to see it too, please post it.

#14342 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:01

I think a PM would be better for us, if you post it in public it will be deleted in hours

#14343 blager

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 10:26

Is anybody interested in Schumacher onboards from Suzuka qualifying and FP?

Count me in

#14344 Fourjays

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:05

Just wanted to say that I've been really impressed with Schumacher in the last few races. I was never a fan of his (grudgingly respected him) but I have found myself beginning to support him this year. Would really like to see Schumacher do well, especially given how hard many pundits have been on him since his comeback.

#14345 Sakae

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:20

The Schumacher era was something totally different. I guess the MS/Ferrari combo had just about the same advantage as Vettel/RBR are having now.

Advantage? To me 'advantage' sounds like very unfair gift. Facts however are, that Ferarri was actually very slow with Alesi and Gerhard behind the wheel. Lauda call them idiots once, if I recall. Point is, with Schumacher, Byrne, Brawn and others they improve it as the F1 competition demands and expects. There was no "advantage" handed to them, but they did simply better job than Williams, McLaren and others building the team and the car, and reap the results as they should at the end. Good car, good driver, and you have it. No advantage in that.

#14346 Group B

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:23

Just wanted to say that I've been really impressed with Schumacher in the last few races. I was never a fan of his (grudgingly respected him) but I have found myself beginning to support him this year. Would really like to see Schumacher do well, especially given how hard many pundits have been on him since his comeback.

:up:
Grandpa's determination has been excellent. He'll never be as good as 10 years ago, but he's stuck at it over the last 18 months and is now both giving Rosberg real problems and mixing it with the tail end of the top six.

#14347 SpeedyS

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:50

Is anybody interested in Schumacher onboards from Suzuka qualifying and FP?

Would be appreciated. Missed most of the weekend being away

#14348 TheMortalBard

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 12:52

:up:
Grandpa's determination has been excellent. He'll never be as good as 10 years ago, but he's stuck at it over the last 18 months and is now both giving Rosberg real problems and mixing it with the tail end of the top six.


I don't know if there is any way to gauge if he is as good as 10 years ago apart from a very generalized observation that his 'advanced' age has affected some of his abilities. That may apply to a normal person but MS (and most of the modern F1 drivers) don't adhere to the normal fitness standards. Today when I see Rubens and Michael side by side, Michael looks way more fitter. I think if there is enough motivation and the fitness is there, he will almost be at the same level as before. Debatable but that's just my opinion. I don't think Mika was unfit when he retired. He just lost the motivation.

What we are seeing now with MS is what he always had. Grim determination. It's a quality that a lot of fans didn't like about him (in addition to the fact that he was a bit naughty a couple of times in his career) but I am a huge fan because he is flawed. He doesn't know when to give up. This quality of him has taken him to great heights and also created some moments of madness. He was rightly criticized for some of those actions but who among us hasn't done something stupid. I am just glad to see him race. He is the last of the 'Old Guard'. As a fan, I will savor each race he competes in. Whether he wins again or not .. well .. that is yet to be seen.

Since his comeback, he has taken his time to understand where he needs to improve. He has taken in a loooooot of criticism. A lot of it was unfair apart from the Barrichello incident. But he has just worked hard and focused on getting to the front. Beating Rosberg has never been an objective for him. I am one of those fanatics who watches the live timing page while watching the race and I can confidently say that when it comes to race pace, MS has the edge over Nico this year. Nico should be worried. Should MS beat Nico this year, Nico's stock will fall.

#14349 Boing 2

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 13:07

Advantage? To me 'advantage' sounds like very unfair gift. Facts however are, that Ferarri was actually very slow with Alesi and Gerhard behind the wheel. Lauda call them idiots once, if I recall. Point is, with Schumacher, Byrne, Brawn and others they improve it as the F1 competition demands and expects. There was no "advantage" handed to them, but they did simply better job than Williams, McLaren and others building the team and the car, and reap the results as they should at the end. Good car, good driver, and you have it. No advantage in that.


I think you need to go and watch 1995 again, they weren't slow they just had horrible reliability (IIRC 16 DNF's in one year). They were actually contenders for multiple race wins, Suzuka, Spa, Monza and took close seconds in Argentina, San marino, Nurburgring, Silverstone as well as an actual win in Canada. With better reliability they could have been serious contenders.

Your second point is confusing two different arguments, if you build a better car than everyone else then your driver has an advantage clearly. You may fully deserve that advantage as a team but you can't claim not to have one.

Edited by Boing 2, 12 October 2011 - 13:07.


#14350 sharo

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 13:44

Even when you have a better car you need a driver who is able to deliver and materialize your constructors effort into results, most of the time and with good predictability.