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#14501 cheapracer

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 07:40

Mercedes continue to be incompetent in qualifying. 12th isnt too bad though, we shall see tomorrow.


Mate getting a bad tyre happens to every team and every driver through their careers and more than once. On the flip side it's gotten this bad tyre out of the way rather than having it find it's way onto the car during the race.


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#14502 GoRacing

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 07:57

MGP used SS in the long runs. Other team used S(like FI). Don't know about STR. But I get strange feeling that S tyres was faster in this long run. Or just MGP try to save them as much as they can.
About Qualy the right choice was : feel the vibration, at the end of out lap go to the box , change for new set of SS and go out again and do the fast lap. He have time for this. This way they will check other (used for only one lap) set and will prepare it for tomorrow. Simple.


I agree, he had time to come back in, change tyres and go back out. Maybe he thought he would still make it with whatever time he set, he certainly seem to imply that during his BBC interview. He thought he would improve by 1/2 sec from his Q1 time, which would have been sufficient.


For the race, better option might be to start with softs and then use SS later in the race. I'm sure FI and/or Torro Rosso will do that.

Edited by GoRacing, 15 October 2011 - 08:01.


#14503 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:06

I am just pissed off for them so easily give up on Q3. No real effort, like it doesn't matter. Really it doesn't matter to much, but Q3 will be better. For us Qually finish to early, there is nothing else to watch really. It is other question that he would probably stay all Q3 in the box. Oh, well it is nothing that one rocket start can't resolve.

Edited by ivand911, 15 October 2011 - 08:07.


#14504 ali.unal

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:23

I am just pissed off for them so easily give up on Q3. No real effort, like it doesn't matter. Really it doesn't matter to much, but Q3 will be better. For us Qually finish to early, there is nothing else to watch really. It is other question that he would probably stay all Q3 in the box. Oh, well it is nothing that one rocket start can't resolve.

I think it's all down to tyres and relative competitiveness of Mercedes to top teams and Renault/FI/Sauber gang. They are alone in 4th so why bother for being 7th by 0,1s or 1s. That doesn't make any difference. I agree they should at least try, but tyre situation forces them to double think and check everything strategicwise. Rosberg could have got Alonso for 6th spot, but then again 7 is better than 6, so.

On the other hand, I think it was a pretty decent qualifying for once. All top teams were on track trying to do hot laps. I enjoyed it.

#14505 FlashMaster

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:28

He just has to start on PRIMES as the options last less than 10 laps but I guess these amateurs at MGP will let him start on options.

#14506 zelpre

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:29

MGP used SS in the long runs. Other team used S(like FI). Don't know about STR. But I get strange feeling that S tyres was faster in this long run. Or just MGP try to save them as much as they can.
About Qualy the right choice was : feel the vibration, at the end of out lap go to the box , change for new set of SS and go out again and do the fast lap. He have time for this. This way they will check other (used for only one lap) set and will prepare it for tomorrow. Simple.


Yep, I don't understand it too...


For the race, better option might be to start with softs and then use SS later in the race. I'm sure FI and/or Torro Rosso will do that.


Not sure if Softs are good for the start since Michael can gain the most positions there. And also he starts on the dirty side of grid...


#14507 sharo

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:35

..............
This way they will check other (used for only one lap) set and will prepare it for tomorrow. Simple.

Tyres are not the same after one cycle of heating-cooling. There are chemical and physical processed which take place in the compound. And while with BS tyres they could condition them for the race I think this is not the case with Pirelli rubber.

#14508 Beyond

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:36

12th is bad but on this track and with many pitstops a good recover is very possible

#14509 zelpre

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:42

Rain for tomorrow's race possible? I SO HOPE FOR IT!

http://www.gpupdate....-rain-possible/

Edited by zelpre, 15 October 2011 - 08:43.


#14510 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:45

Tyres are not the same after one cycle of heating-cooling. There are chemical and physical processed which take place in the compound. And while with BS tyres they could condition them for the race I think this is not the case with Pirelli rubber.

Last race in Suzuka MS said , I have one almost new set(two laps old). So, I guess 1 lap old is even better. In the race will not matter so much as in Qualy how old is the tyre. And the tyres already have this one cycle of heating-cooling with putting them in heating blankets? They put heated tyres on the car(around 100 degree) from the car they put them in heating blankets and I think they stay there until they use them in the race, heated all the time? Or they are not heated after Qualy to the next day before race start? So, even like that they made one cycle of heating-cooling , without going into the car.

Edited by ivand911, 15 October 2011 - 08:48.


#14511 sharo

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:49

Surface temperatures (at least, don't know about internal t) get higher than 100oC to the point of rubber actually melting. This makes difference.
Michael probably had in mind the contact surface rubber thickness, as the Pirellis lose a lot of material every lap.


#14512 GoRacing

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:53

Rain for tomorrow's race possible? I SO HOPE FOR IT!

http://www.gpupdate....-rain-possible/


Sorry to disappoint you, but that forecast is from last year!

#14513 GoRacing

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 08:56

Yep, I don't understand it too...



Not sure if Softs are good for the start since Michael can gain the most positions there. And also he starts on the dirty side of grid...


Ross mentioned that they debated changing tyres, but I guess it was MS' call from what we heard via Team Radio, he seemed to say "I'll do it anyway".

Edited by GoRacing, 15 October 2011 - 08:56.


#14514 zelpre

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:01

Sorry to disappoint you, but that forecast is from last year!


Oh -.-

#14515 cheapracer

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:20

Sorry to disappoint you, but that forecast is from last year!


No rain expected at the track.





#14516 Massa_f1

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:33

This is really disappointing. I got up at 6am to see this!?! Why can't MSC catch a break in quali?!?!



Yea me to. As soon as Q2 ended i was back in bed though. Disappointing.

#14517 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:38

Yea me to. As soon as Q2 ended i was back in bed though. Disappointing.

The whole season is disappointing. Two seconds slower than McLaren? How retarded this team have to be? MGP is slightly better than LRGP, FI, Sauber.

Edited by ivand911, 15 October 2011 - 09:39.


#14518 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:44

2 seconds slower than Mclaren here but running them very close at another fast track just 3 races ago....

Hopefully the DRS will work well for both drivers tomorrow, it should do they have enough opportunities to use it.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 15 October 2011 - 09:45.


#14519 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:48

2 seconds slower than Mclaren here but running them very close at another fast track just 3 races ago....

Hopefully the DRS will work well for both drivers tomorrow, it should do they have enough opportunities to use it.

Yeah, one second slower at Monza. If Nico start well he will probably never use DRS(faster car will run away), MS will use it more.

Edited by ivand911, 15 October 2011 - 09:50.


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#14520 Lelouch

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:16

The only thing i don't like about this season concerning Michael is that every Saturday i catch myself praying that he won't crash on Sunday.. :-/

#14521 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:17

"Jenson Button is keeping his fingers crossed that Sebastian Vettel does not lose his second place slot on the grid for the Korean Grand Prix for cutting the track - because he does not want to start on the dirty side of the track."
This doesn't sound good for place 12.

#14522 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:25

I was thinking about the same.

Bring it! :D

#14523 fisssssi

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:30

"Jenson Button is keeping his fingers crossed that Sebastian Vettel does not lose his second place slot on the grid for the Korean Grand Prix for cutting the track - because he does not want to start on the dirty side of the track."
This doesn't sound good for place 12.


Don't worry, they will just drive down the left hand side of the track during the warm up tomorrow morning to clean it up.

#14524 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 11:44

Don't worry, they will just drive down the left hand side of the track during the warm up tomorrow morning to clean it up.

They don't do warm up anymore.
Vettel said that S are better than SS, And he will use SS only at the start and after that only S. So, MS can start with SS tomorrow.


#14525 spacekid

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 12:15

Damn shame about today. I really hope Michael gets all his quali car snafus out the way this year so next year there are no more of these problems.

I think tomorrow could be tricky, those Torro Rossos are looking much better and the Findias often race with the Mercs now. 8th would be a great result all things considered.

#14526 Wade

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 13:13

Let's do this, Schumi. Best of luck!

#14527 cheapracer

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 13:30

Aprox lap time 100 seconds.

50 laps x 2 seconds.

FFS, I just hope both Benz don't suffer the indignity of being lapped.

#14528 BRK

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 13:53

A SC should help delay that eventuality..

I think it could be a good race, Merc aren't too bad with straightline speed should should be ample opportunity for overtaking. Though I'm a bit worried about the pit exit.

#14529 Igorr

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 14:38

something tells me that Michael will be in front of Nico after the 1st lap

#14530 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 16:59

"Jenson Button is keeping his fingers crossed that Sebastian Vettel does not lose his second place slot on the grid for the Korean Grand Prix for cutting the track - because he does not want to start on the dirty side of the track."
This doesn't sound good for place 12.


It's one of the shortest runs from start/finish straight to Turn 1, so I don't think he will lose many places, maybe just one.

Although the first Turn is quite tight and tricky, I expect a first turn collision involving a fair few cars

#14531 Tardis40

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 17:10

Considering the highest he could reasonably expect to finish is P7, I don't see any problem with his grid position. He'll get half of them back at the start, and will have lots of new rubber for the race.

#14532 spacekid

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 17:33

Considering the highest he could reasonably expect to finish is P7, I don't see any problem with his grid position. He'll get half of them back at the start, and will have lots of new rubber for the race.


Unfortunately I don't share your optimism. As mentioned above, its a very short sprint to the start and starting from the dirty side it will be tough to make up places.

Regards the rubber the super softs are expected to melt like action man under a magnifying glass tomorrow, so having extra sets of those is no help - the majority of the race is expected to be run on softs and everyone has equal numbers of them. Except Red Bull, who were weirdly slow on their super softs in Q1.

He should be ok for some points, but I'm fearful of the first corner. It gets really tight around there, could go well, could go very badly.

#14533 zelpre

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:14

Something tells me that tomorrow won't be a good day for Michael. I'm not really optimistic for the race. I'm really worried about the start...

#14534 Tardis40

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:26

Unfortunately I don't share your optimism.


Now, now, we've got to keep a positive attitude, until the bitter end! lol


#14535 zelpre

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 19:36

Now, now, we've got to keep a positive attitude, until the bitter end! lol


Bah in the situation he is, P7 is now very optimistic. And P7 for me is waste of time. I mean, last races Michael really had the pace, Massa is always reachable and so he is in the championship, but if this qualifications...Meh.

I say P6 - pass Nico and one of the top 3 teams, then I'm satisfied.

Edited by zelpre, 15 October 2011 - 20:15.


#14536 ivand911

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:37

I hope difference from both sides will be not so big. They drive not very much on dry. No other series run there I think. Track was dirty, rain washed it. Ideal line is not exactly over right starting positions. In Suzuka MS start very well from position 8th. First corner will be tricky ,but he can take one more position on the long straight.

#14537 F1Champion

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:45

Reliability related DNFs : 1 (Japan) vs 3 (Hungary, Italy for FA and Bahrain for Fisichella)


You forget the massive piston issues that Ferrari had at the beginning of the season, they had to lower the power of the engine to make it last. The engine overheated once or twice meaning lower revs (and a grid place penalty).

On balance the Renault was fast from the start of the season to the end, no tyre issues, no handling issues, no need to play catch up from the start of the season unlike Ferrari.

Edited by F1Champion, 15 October 2011 - 21:00.


#14538 arknor

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 20:49

The only thing i don't like about this season concerning Michael is that every Saturday i catch myself praying that he won't crash on Sunday.. :-/

on the early morning races like korea etc i find my self wondering wether its worth getting up or wether schumacher will be out of the race in the first few corners...

i didnt bother getting up yesterday for qualifying and im glad i didnt , hopefully i wont regret waking up at 6am tommorow

#14539 Sakae

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:02

Michael will bring that lawnmover right up there... :) (Oh boy, what a year).

Edited by Sakae, 16 October 2011 - 02:06.


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#14540 Wade

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:08

So I see a lot of negativity in this thread.......but I understand why. Just hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. Whatever happens, im behind MS's back.



#14541 Sakae

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 02:12

So I see a lot of negativity in this thread.......but I understand why. Just hope for the best, and prepare for the worst. Whatever happens, im behind MS's back.

...just for the record, I have never doubted that Schumacher does his very best under any circumstances, but right now he is dancing with the devil, and that needs to be fixed. Maybe in 2012, maybe in 2013.

Edited by Sakae, 16 October 2011 - 02:15.


#14542 zelpre

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 05:31

30mins left to the race. Let's hope for a stunning start, all the best for Michael.

EDIT: very cloudy, rain is possible!!

Edited by zelpre, 16 October 2011 - 05:40.


#14543 ivand911

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 05:45

Waiting for the magic.
Grid girls little naked for the weather.
MS with SS!

Edited by ivand911, 16 October 2011 - 06:01.


#14544 Richardc

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:18

:( not shaping up for a great race unless there's a downpour.

#14545 Richardc

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:33

**** petrov

#14546 Sof1

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:33

OMG!!! PETROV!!!!

#14547 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:33

Great. And he made some awesome laps before the pitstops.

#14548 DutchCruijff

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:34

ARGH **** OFF PETROV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#14549 DisruptioN

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:34

IDIOTA


#14550 BRK

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Posted 16 October 2011 - 06:34

Another race ruined by a bloody rookie-at-heart in the midfield.