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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#15201 BRK

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:31

I beg to differ, BRK. As Buttoneer correctly pointed out, this is Christian/European tradition to pay respect. I do however agree with you (being in attendance myself in the past to a such event), that in cumulative noise at such gatherings sometimes timing is off, and people miss the moment.

I have seen Schumacher taking his cap off several times in the past to pay respect, which is why I believe what ivan said, that after RTL interview that took prior the minute silence, he was probably rushed to make a picture, was one of the last to arrive, and before he realized what is going on there was a photo shot done. This is very plausible explanation.

I was trying to search internet about this subject, but this is the only place I came accross, which is making a deal out of it. So, at the conclusion I do not know what happened exactly, but watching a man for years, my bet is on misunderstanding, and not worth further discussion.


What I meant is that the same happens everywhere in the world, including say India, Arabia, SE Asia, etc. I've seen people standing up with bowed heads and caps off to mark a minute's silence at many of these countries for different reasons (such as after a terrorist attack, natural disaster, etc) Regardless of religious beliefs or cultural background people do remove their caps sometimes as a mark of respect, it's not limited to Europe. So viewed from that perspective I would say that on Sunday a lot of people simply chose not to take their hats off, not at all out of ignorance or cultural background but because of personal preference. (and I was one of them) So long as you're sincere with your mourning (I can tell you that there was pin-drop silence at the circuit and not a single soul stirred) I don't think it matters whether you take your hat or sunglasses off.

Agreed with the rest! The pics clearly prove Michael was in a hurry.

To get away from a senseless invented drama:

Schumi was always on the track a genius with moments of madness. However one of the greatest reactions I have seen in recent F1 was the way in which he went into the garage in that dark day in Suzuka 2006 when a blown engine meant his dream of another title were shredded with no fault of his own. You really could feel behind the TV screen that mental strenght, that head held high, his complete leadership when he stepped in and raised the spirits, congratulating his mechanics with a friendly smile on his face.

In Brazil he then went to give it all and after suffering that flat tyre he just went in, out and went off once again to give it all he it. All that had something strangely heroic and touching, a challenge against all the odds and loyality to himself and the team to the last inch of the track of the last lap.


:up:



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#15202 Wade

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:33

Posted Image

Look at that a-hole Schumacher vandalizing the poor hat! He has no respect at all to the company that produced it. What a classless **** :down:

#15203 cheapracer

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:45

To get away from a senseless invented drama:


Yep, time to put a lid on it.

Posted Image

Edited by cheapracer, 02 November 2011 - 07:47.


#15204 ali.unal

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 09:01

However one of the greatest reactions I have seen in recent F1 was the way in which he went into the garage in that dark day in Suzuka 2006 when a blown engine meant his dream of another title were shredded with no fault of his own. You really could feel behind the TV screen that mental strenght, that head held high, his complete leadership when he stepped in and raised the spirits, congratulating his mechanics with a friendly smile on his face.



#15205 Hacklerf

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:45

Hes the man, watching that again reminds me how gutted at the time i was, but Schumi manages to keep his head up, and thank the team :up:

Edited by Hacklerf, 02 November 2011 - 10:45.


#15206 merschu

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:29

A person on f1technical posted this:

He clearly stated that pitting earlier is a definite advantage in the later part of the race and he could only gain on Rosberg because he had been able to nurse his tyres and keep a competitive pace for longer than his teammate.He clearly said ,Rosberg had no choice but had to come in as his tyres were gone by then.He specially mentioned his experienced race engineers for hitting the sweet spot perfectly in setup AND on RTL he JUST stopped short of accusing the team of sabotage to his Qualy efforts.He clearly stated that his setup choices could explain a small gap in Qualy but he expressed his surprise of things happening just on his car again anad again like wheels out of balance in the last two qualies with 40g of imbalance...Again something unheard of in Schumachers career but this is the second time he is putting forward accusations towards the team not doing a proper job or even actively destroying his Qualy efforts..


Is this true? Has someone from here watched that interview on RTL? What did Schumi say during the whole interview?

Edited by merschu, 02 November 2011 - 11:30.


#15207 Jejking

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:40

Got a link?

Edit: found it @ http://www.f1technic...=286698#p286698 . Let's see.

If someone can scoop up that interview, audio/video, that'd be helpful.

Edited by Jejking, 02 November 2011 - 11:44.


#15208 Math89

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:43

I'm pretty sure that if he said those words our experts would have picked that one instead of the 'Michael not taking his hat of' story. If it was true it would have been on most websites... Media made a very big deal out of the 'the big joy is not there right now' line after Turkey so I doubt they would just skip this one...



#15209 Jejking

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:45

What is, can still be :p We might be at the virge of an exploding media frenzy.

#15210 BRK

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:59

Interesting, though I'm not really surprised considering I and a few others have been pointing this out from the outset. Really sucks when you have issues in qualifying race after race, malfunctioning KERS, DRS, loose wheel nuts. The bit about unhealthy balance is pretty interesting, too.

#15211 spacekid

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 13:09

The Mercedes team have certainly been sloppy with both cars. Nico has also suffered a wheel falling off, if I remember.

However, in all the time I have watched Schumi he has never, ever used the press as a means of expressing a problem with the team. I'd be very surprised if he were to start now. If there is a problem I'm sure it will all be discussed behind closed doors.

#15212 Jomyboy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 13:59

Who is the greatest driver in Formula1? Here's Murray's Interview

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


WOW!!!!

#15213 weston

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 14:17

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event.  ;)

#15214 Group B

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 14:30

Who is the greatest driver in Formula1? Here's Murray's Interview

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


WOW!!!!

:clap:

#15215 ivand911

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 14:33

I watched RTL interview on Saturday and MS only said that he don't understand where the difference come from and they need to investigate it. There wasn't any accusations. I guess he expected to be closer to Nico. Speedwise. marcush from f1technical is expressing his opinion here(he JUST stopped short of). This is how he feel it.
On Sunday after the race MS said that his car was perfectly balanced for the race.

Edited by ivand911, 02 November 2011 - 14:36.


#15216 BRK

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 14:48

Who is the greatest driver in Formula1? Here's Murray's Interview

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded


WOW!!!!


Absolutely fantastic. :up: The man has followed motorsport for over 60 years, he's seen them all drive, without exception. I'll take this legend's word over anybody else's. Even on a forum such as this where there's no shortage of Schumacher-haters Michael came out on top as the best driver of all time.

I'd say in his opinion Schumacher>Fangio>Senna. Absolute honour. :cool:

#15217 sharo

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 15:07

Although I am a devoted MS fan since the start, I really do not like any driver to be declared "The greatest of all times". Times change and every prominent name, every champion has been great in his own time and his own way.


#15218 Tardis40

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 15:17

What is, can still be :p We might be at the virge of an exploding media frenzy.


Can you imagine what would happen if a picture surfaced of Michael scratching his balls?


#15219 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 17:51

Just looking at some other onboard starts on youtube, you can see that at Spa Schumacher did the exact same thing as here, using his KERS only on the straight after Eau Rouge. Then again, I guess the choice comes more naturally there, with the short distance to the first corner and the very slow speed that corner is taken at.

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#15220 Sakae

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:33

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event.;)

What, no Massa and Hamilton party? That will be boring, but then, maybe Russian will want to prove himself, and to that aim will take Schumacher out in the front of his home crowd.

#15221 scarletf12002

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:42

Wow indeed! A nice moment when he the old boys & gestured to himself as well!

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event. ;)



#15222 scarletf12002

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:44

Wow indeed! A nice moment when he the old boys & gestured to himself as well!


Oops Sorry meant Murray walker interview but think u could guess that!

#15223 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:39

Although I am a devoted MS fan since the start, I really do not like any driver to be declared "The greatest of all times". Times change and every prominent name, every champion has been great in his own time and his own way.


Well said Mate.` :up:

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event. ;)


Phhhtttt - Foregone conclusion - Jos will win it.




#15224 hero

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:55

Absolutely fantastic. :up: The man has followed motorsport for over 60 years, he's seen them all drive, without exception. I'll take this legend's word over anybody else's. Even on a forum such as this where there's no shortage of Schumacher-haters Michael came out on top as the best driver of all time.

I'd say in his opinion Schumacher>Fangio>Senna. Absolute honour. :cool:


Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

#15225 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:40

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?

#15226 holiday

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:43

I'd say in his opinion Schumacher>Fangio>Senna. Absolute honour. :cool:


Can't compare drivers of different generations, at least not with a gap of five decades. And if we are relativistic about it, a GP win only proves that the winner was the best on that day, in that machinery, on that track and under those climatic and other chance circumstances, nada más. A WDC is then only the driver who had the most of these good moments expressed in points, nada más. But whatever.




#15227 Augurk

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:51

Can't compare drivers of different generations, at least not with a gap of five decades. And if we are relativistic about it, a GP win only proves that the winner was the best on that day, in that machinery, on that track and under those climatic and other chance circumstances, nada más. A WDC is then only the driver who had the most of these good moments expressed in points, nada más. But whatever.

Surely you must agree that a driver with 7 wdc & 91 wins, all spread across two decades has shown to be the best in so many different occasions, under so many different circumstances, in so many different machines that surely qualifies him to be in the running for the best of all times?

#15228 Sakae

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:27

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

Murray is a convert, because there were times it was hard to listen to him during a race commentary. He was (and still might be) Hill's fan, and initially could not stand sight of Schumacher.

#15229 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:28

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?


That would depend on where he was rated allowing for the age, geography etc. of the 'Rater'.

I would fully expect a Brazilian to put Senna at number one and never surprised when a Brit puts Clark at number one so sure, if Walker had MS at say, number 4 for example, it would be understandable and of no surprise.

One list I saw once had MS at number 6, I think that's unacceptable for example.

Edited by cheapracer, 03 November 2011 - 09:32.


#15230 arknor

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:35

Murray is a convert, because there were times it was hard to listen to him during a race commentary. He was (and still might be) Hill's fan, and initially could not stand sight of Schumacher.

murrays always been like that hes probably the most impartial commentator the sport is ever going to get.

he never came across as having an agenda like DC and brundle do

#15231 salamin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:02

fan video / india start / (you can see MS passing Torro Rossos around 0:50)!

#15232 hero

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:10

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?


Wrong and it was not even my point.

#15233 Boing 2

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:22

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?


To be fair, there have been many equally well liked and respected people who have critisised Schumacher and recieved a never ending torrent of personal abuse for it.

#15234 schubacca

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 13:48

As a massive MS fan, I will say this:

MS is ONE of the greatest F1 drivers ever.



#15235 seahawk

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:06

MS is probably the best German driver in modern F1, not more not less.

#15236 holiday

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:30

Surely you must agree that a driver with 7 wdc & 91 wins, all spread across two decades has shown to be the best in so many different occasions, under so many different circumstances, in so many different machines that surely qualifies him to be in the running for the best of all times?


Absolutely, MS has more claim to be the best F1 driver ever than almost everyone else. Still, I'd like to go with the tier system instead when it comes to covering the entire f1 history. In this system I have no time for people who deny that MS belongs to the top ten, even top five.

But a definite ranking like #1 = x, #2 = y, #3 = z...impossible, too many variables. And in any case, MS has 7 WDCs to his belt, he does not need these Golden Ananas rankings anyway.

#15237 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:46

Absolutely, MS has more claim to be the best F1 driver ever than almost everyone else. Still, I'd like to go with the tier system instead when it comes to covering the entire f1 history. In this system I have no time for people who deny that MS belongs to the top ten, even top five.

But a definite ranking like #1 = x, #2 = y, #3 = z...impossible, too many variables. And in any case, MS has 7 WDCs to his belt, he does not need these Golden Ananas rankings anyway.

:up:
It's absolutely impossible to prove who's the greatest, or even make a top 3 or 5. Most of us haven't even seen many of the candidates except in a few old clips.

#15238 schubacca

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:24

Yep,

Everyone has an opinion....

Sir Jackie always seems to bring up that MS spins too much in practice.

But, I cannot fault any names that he gives (although Moss is a tad questionable for me....

#15239 ali.unal

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:26

Yep,

Everyone has an opinion....

Sir Jackie always seems to bring up that MS spins too much in practice.

But, I cannot fault any names that he gives (although Moss is a tad questionable for me....

I am very sorry. After I posted that message which you replied, I thought it would be better to open a thread about it.

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#15240 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:28

To be fair, there have been many equally well liked and respected people who have critisised Schumacher and recieved a never ending torrent of personal abuse for it.


Thats just not true, I have neither liked nor respected you ever.


#15241 BRK

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:37

^ :lol:

Not a stretch to say Schumacher fans are among the wittiest around (which I associate with high levels of IQ and mental capacity, a la Schumacher himself ;) ), truly livens up the thread.



Anyway, Walker clearly stated that was his opinion, as far as opinions go there are no ifs and buts. I agree most of these legends would be very close in terms of pace. I do respect the opinion of a man that has probably seen and followed F1 for longer than even some TNFers on here, though, so it's an honour that he thinks - in his opinion, which I respect- MS was the greatest of them all. :)

#15242 Sakae

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:39

:up:
It's absolutely impossible to prove who's the greatest, or even make a top 3 or 5. Most of us haven't even seen many of the candidates except in a few old clips.

Another list, what a suprise; I have list on my own, if anyone is interested.

Yes, my boyhood model for driving my car around our kitchen was Louis Chiron, but my first F1 visit which launched interest that lasted ever since was in 1974, South Africa.

Edited by Sakae, 03 November 2011 - 15:40.


#15243 Boing 2

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:04

Thats just not true, I have neither liked nor respected you ever.


As usual you're taking it all far too seriously, lighten up petal. :kiss:

#15244 Fortymark

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:15

One list I saw once had MS at number 6, I think that's unacceptable for example.


Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:


#15245 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:39

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

:lol: :rolleyes:
Good old Forty. A dozen times your conspiracy theories have been distamtled and a dozen times you pop back repeating them like a goldfish discovering a new bowl every ten seconds.

#15246 arknor

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 17:49

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

like alonso? vettel?
oh wait :rolleyes: hamilton? oh wait hes getting whipped by a driver who schumachers whipping boy rubens almost beat to the championship :rotfl:

#15247 ivand911

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 17:53

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

Don't worry, if they have finished the same number races this year, MS would beat Nico for sure.
Who is Clark? Rindt? Ascari? Anyone see them driving? I personally didn't see Fangio, old Villenueve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda driving? They are more like legends, but nobody know if they are good at all? Maybe they are good ,but don't have results to make them great.
Everybody knows MS is the best, because we saw him driving. I am watching F1 since around 1991/92(full season). First race that I remember was Hungary 1986. That times we were watching only Hungary races, and not every time. I don't feel robed because I didn't see Clark, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Moss driving. Not at all. And in my list they don't exist. This guys in one team with MS will look like amateurs.

Edited by ivand911, 03 November 2011 - 17:59.


#15248 Schumacher7

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:15

fan video / india start / (you can see MS passing Torro Rossos around 0:50)!

He didn't make the overtake stick there though as he went wider through the first corner, he took them later on the lap.

#15249 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:36

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1

Hang on there a moment, Schumacher got comprehensively out pointed by Rosberg last season, and this season sees Schumacher struggling mightily to get on even terms with the young talented Rosberg. So even if Schumacher does manage to eek out a higher points tally this season (with the aid of Ross and team orders it would now appear) it does not mean that Schumacher is better then the winless Mr. Rosberg. The combined points tallies for the past two seasons is Rosberg 217 Schumacher 142, Schumacher's total points deficit since he was teamed with young Mr. Rosberg is 75 points. If and when Schumacher manages to even up those numbers then we could say he has reached the same level as Rosberg. That leaves a long row to hoe for Schumacher, even with Ross in his corner screwing Rosberg at every turn it will still be a long time before Schumacher can manage to erase that enormous deficit, at the moment Schumacher is not even a match for Rosberg and may never be.

Now consider this Schumacher has toiled two seasons as Rosberg's number two and in that time he has yet to manage a points total in either of those years that is greater then the total deficit for the two season period in question. Holy Crap!
Looking at the numbers this way it would seem obvious that Schumacher is currently a mid pack driver (flattered by teamorders) Combine that with all the ugly baggage that comes with Schumacher, and it becomes very clear that Schumacher is not and never will be among the great drivers of F1. Drivers like Senna Villeneuve, Clark, Alonso, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda! … Schumacher’s spotted record and his total sportsmanship fail over the years completely and entirely excludes him for consideration imho. That is not even mentioning the fact that he can't best Rosberg without Ross hamstringing Nico. Schumacher among the greats ....pfffft not a chance.


Edited by SlateGray, 04 November 2011 - 00:42.


#15250 sharo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:42

:rotfl:
They say a good laugh (thanks SlateGray) is healthy but this one seems to be overdosed for me.