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#15201 Sakae

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:33

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event.;)

What, no Massa and Hamilton party? That will be boring, but then, maybe Russian will want to prove himself, and to that aim will take Schumacher out in the front of his home crowd.

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#15202 scarletf12002

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:42

Wow indeed! A nice moment when he the old boys & gestured to himself as well!

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event. ;)



#15203 scarletf12002

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 18:44

Wow indeed! A nice moment when he the old boys & gestured to himself as well!


Oops Sorry meant Murray walker interview but think u could guess that!

#15204 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:39

Although I am a devoted MS fan since the start, I really do not like any driver to be declared "The greatest of all times". Times change and every prominent name, every champion has been great in his own time and his own way.


Well said Mate.` :up:

"Russian Formula 1 star Vitaly Petrov has signed up to compete at the 2011 Race Of Champions in Düsseldorf. Vitaly will become the first driver from Eastern Europe to compete at the event... He joins a star-studded field that includes three F1 world champions for ROC 2011 at Düsseldorf’s ESPRIT arena on December 3-4. Competing alongside Vitaly... will be Michael Schumacher, Sebastian Vettel and Jenson Button amongst others..."

That will be an action-packed event. ;)


Phhhtttt - Foregone conclusion - Jos will win it.




#15205 hero

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 06:55

Absolutely fantastic. :up: The man has followed motorsport for over 60 years, he's seen them all drive, without exception. I'll take this legend's word over anybody else's. Even on a forum such as this where there's no shortage of Schumacher-haters Michael came out on top as the best driver of all time.

I'd say in his opinion Schumacher>Fangio>Senna. Absolute honour. :cool:


Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

#15206 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:40

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?

#15207 holiday

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:43

I'd say in his opinion Schumacher>Fangio>Senna. Absolute honour. :cool:


Can't compare drivers of different generations, at least not with a gap of five decades. And if we are relativistic about it, a GP win only proves that the winner was the best on that day, in that machinery, on that track and under those climatic and other chance circumstances, nada más. A WDC is then only the driver who had the most of these good moments expressed in points, nada más. But whatever.




#15208 Augurk

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:51

Can't compare drivers of different generations, at least not with a gap of five decades. And if we are relativistic about it, a GP win only proves that the winner was the best on that day, in that machinery, on that track and under those climatic and other chance circumstances, nada más. A WDC is then only the driver who had the most of these good moments expressed in points, nada más. But whatever.

Surely you must agree that a driver with 7 wdc & 91 wins, all spread across two decades has shown to be the best in so many different occasions, under so many different circumstances, in so many different machines that surely qualifies him to be in the running for the best of all times?

#15209 Sakae

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:27

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?

Murray is a convert, because there were times it was hard to listen to him during a race commentary. He was (and still might be) Hill's fan, and initially could not stand sight of Schumacher.

#15210 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:28

Whats the bet you would have called him a silly old coot if he had rated Schumacher lower?


That would depend on where he was rated allowing for the age, geography etc. of the 'Rater'.

I would fully expect a Brazilian to put Senna at number one and never surprised when a Brit puts Clark at number one so sure, if Walker had MS at say, number 4 for example, it would be understandable and of no surprise.

One list I saw once had MS at number 6, I think that's unacceptable for example.

Edited by cheapracer, 03 November 2011 - 09:32.


#15211 arknor

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:35

Murray is a convert, because there were times it was hard to listen to him during a race commentary. He was (and still might be) Hill's fan, and initially could not stand sight of Schumacher.

murrays always been like that hes probably the most impartial commentator the sport is ever going to get.

he never came across as having an agenda like DC and brundle do

#15212 salamin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:02

fan video / india start / (you can see MS passing Torro Rossos around 0:50)!

#15213 hero

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:10

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?


Wrong and it was not even my point.

#15214 Boing 2

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:22

What's the bet it really knaws your liver when such a well liked and respected figure speaks so well of Michael?


To be fair, there have been many equally well liked and respected people who have critisised Schumacher and recieved a never ending torrent of personal abuse for it.

#15215 schubacca

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 13:48

As a massive MS fan, I will say this:

MS is ONE of the greatest F1 drivers ever.



#15216 seahawk

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:06

MS is probably the best German driver in modern F1, not more not less.

#15217 holiday

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:30

Surely you must agree that a driver with 7 wdc & 91 wins, all spread across two decades has shown to be the best in so many different occasions, under so many different circumstances, in so many different machines that surely qualifies him to be in the running for the best of all times?


Absolutely, MS has more claim to be the best F1 driver ever than almost everyone else. Still, I'd like to go with the tier system instead when it comes to covering the entire f1 history. In this system I have no time for people who deny that MS belongs to the top ten, even top five.

But a definite ranking like #1 = x, #2 = y, #3 = z...impossible, too many variables. And in any case, MS has 7 WDCs to his belt, he does not need these Golden Ananas rankings anyway.

#15218 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 14:46

Absolutely, MS has more claim to be the best F1 driver ever than almost everyone else. Still, I'd like to go with the tier system instead when it comes to covering the entire f1 history. In this system I have no time for people who deny that MS belongs to the top ten, even top five.

But a definite ranking like #1 = x, #2 = y, #3 = z...impossible, too many variables. And in any case, MS has 7 WDCs to his belt, he does not need these Golden Ananas rankings anyway.

:up:
It's absolutely impossible to prove who's the greatest, or even make a top 3 or 5. Most of us haven't even seen many of the candidates except in a few old clips.

#15219 schubacca

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:24

Yep,

Everyone has an opinion....

Sir Jackie always seems to bring up that MS spins too much in practice.

But, I cannot fault any names that he gives (although Moss is a tad questionable for me....

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#15220 ali.unal

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:26

Yep,

Everyone has an opinion....

Sir Jackie always seems to bring up that MS spins too much in practice.

But, I cannot fault any names that he gives (although Moss is a tad questionable for me....

I am very sorry. After I posted that message which you replied, I thought it would be better to open a thread about it.

#15221 cheapracer

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:28

To be fair, there have been many equally well liked and respected people who have critisised Schumacher and recieved a never ending torrent of personal abuse for it.


Thats just not true, I have neither liked nor respected you ever.


#15222 BRK

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:37

^ :lol:

Not a stretch to say Schumacher fans are among the wittiest around (which I associate with high levels of IQ and mental capacity, a la Schumacher himself ;) ), truly livens up the thread.



Anyway, Walker clearly stated that was his opinion, as far as opinions go there are no ifs and buts. I agree most of these legends would be very close in terms of pace. I do respect the opinion of a man that has probably seen and followed F1 for longer than even some TNFers on here, though, so it's an honour that he thinks - in his opinion, which I respect- MS was the greatest of them all. :)

#15223 Sakae

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 15:39

:up:
It's absolutely impossible to prove who's the greatest, or even make a top 3 or 5. Most of us haven't even seen many of the candidates except in a few old clips.

Another list, what a suprise; I have list on my own, if anyone is interested.

Yes, my boyhood model for driving my car around our kitchen was Louis Chiron, but my first F1 visit which launched interest that lasted ever since was in 1974, South Africa.

Edited by Sakae, 03 November 2011 - 15:40.


#15224 Boing 2

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:04

Thats just not true, I have neither liked nor respected you ever.


As usual you're taking it all far too seriously, lighten up petal. :kiss:

#15225 Fortymark

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:15

One list I saw once had MS at number 6, I think that's unacceptable for example.


Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:


#15226 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 16:39

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

:lol: :rolleyes:
Good old Forty. A dozen times your conspiracy theories have been distamtled and a dozen times you pop back repeating them like a goldfish discovering a new bowl every ten seconds.

#15227 arknor

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 17:49

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

like alonso? vettel?
oh wait :rolleyes: hamilton? oh wait hes getting whipped by a driver who schumachers whipping boy rubens almost beat to the championship :rotfl:

#15228 ivand911

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 17:53

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1 :drunk:

Don't worry, if they have finished the same number races this year, MS would beat Nico for sure.
Who is Clark? Rindt? Ascari? Anyone see them driving? I personally didn't see Fangio, old Villenueve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda driving? They are more like legends, but nobody know if they are good at all? Maybe they are good ,but don't have results to make them great.
Everybody knows MS is the best, because we saw him driving. I am watching F1 since around 1991/92(full season). First race that I remember was Hungary 1986. That times we were watching only Hungary races, and not every time. I don't feel robed because I didn't see Clark, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Moss driving. Not at all. And in my list they don't exist. This guys in one team with MS will look like amateurs.

Edited by ivand911, 03 November 2011 - 17:59.


#15229 Schumacher7

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:15

fan video / india start / (you can see MS passing Torro Rossos around 0:50)!

He didn't make the overtake stick there though as he went wider through the first corner, he took them later on the lap.

#15230 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:36

Not really. One could argue that 1)Fangio, 2)Clark, 3)Senna, 4)Prost, 5) insert anybody else of the group Ascari, Rindt, Villeneuve, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda, etc to Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton is better than 6) Schumacher

Lets just wait and see if Schumacher actually can beat an teammate on equal status before hailing him as the best thing ever happened to F1

Hang on there a moment, Schumacher got comprehensively out pointed by Rosberg last season, and this season sees Schumacher struggling mightily to get on even terms with the young talented Rosberg. So even if Schumacher does manage to eek out a higher points tally this season (with the aid of Ross and team orders it would now appear) it does not mean that Schumacher is better then the winless Mr. Rosberg. The combined points tallies for the past two seasons is Rosberg 217 Schumacher 142, Schumacher's total points deficit since he was teamed with young Mr. Rosberg is 75 points. If and when Schumacher manages to even up those numbers then we could say he has reached the same level as Rosberg. That leaves a long row to hoe for Schumacher, even with Ross in his corner screwing Rosberg at every turn it will still be a long time before Schumacher can manage to erase that enormous deficit, at the moment Schumacher is not even a match for Rosberg and may never be.

Now consider this Schumacher has toiled two seasons as Rosberg's number two and in that time he has yet to manage a points total in either of those years that is greater then the total deficit for the two season period in question. Holy Crap!
Looking at the numbers this way it would seem obvious that Schumacher is currently a mid pack driver (flattered by teamorders) Combine that with all the ugly baggage that comes with Schumacher, and it becomes very clear that Schumacher is not and never will be among the great drivers of F1. Drivers like Senna Villeneuve, Clark, Alonso, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda! … Schumacher’s spotted record and his total sportsmanship fail over the years completely and entirely excludes him for consideration imho. That is not even mentioning the fact that he can't best Rosberg without Ross hamstringing Nico. Schumacher among the greats ....pfffft not a chance.


Edited by SlateGray, 04 November 2011 - 00:42.


#15231 sharo

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:42

:rotfl:
They say a good laugh (thanks SlateGray) is healthy but this one seems to be overdosed for me.



#15232 schubacca

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:48

Hang on there a moment, Schumacher got comprehensively trashed by Rosberg last season, a total spanking, a complete schooling did Schumacher receive at the gifted hands of Mr. Rosberg, and this season sees Schumacher struggling mightily to get on even terms with the young talented Rosberg. So even if Schumacher does manage to eek out a higher points tally this season (with the aid of Ross and team orders it would now appear) it does not mean that Schumacher is better then the winless Mr. Rosberg. The combined points tallies for the past two seasons is Rosberg 217 Schumacher 142, Schumacher's total points deficit since he was teamed with young Mr. Rosberg is 75 points. If and when Schumacher manages to even up those numbers then we could say he has reached the same level as Rosberg. That leaves a long row to hoe for Schumacher, even with Ross in his corner screwing Rosberg at every turn it will still be a long time before Schumacher can manage to erase that enormous deficit. So at the moment Schumacher is not even a match for Rosberg and may never be.

Now consider this Schumacher has toiled two seasons as Rosberg's number two and in that time he has yet to manage a points total in either of those years that is greater then the total deficit for the two season period in question. Holy Crap!
Looking at the numbers this way it would seem obvious that Schumacher is currently a mid pack driver (flattered by teamorders) Combine that with all the ugly baggage that comes with Schumacher, punting, cheating, chopping, parking…. and it becomes very very clear that Schumacher is not and never will be among the great drivers of F1. Drivers like Senna Villeneuve, Clark, Alonso, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda! … Schumacher’s spotted record and his total sportsmanship fail over the years completely and entirely excludes him for consideration. That is not even mentioning the FACT that he can't best Rosberg without Ross hamstringing Nico. Schumacher among the greats ....pfffft not a chance.


That was a good laugh......

Using the performance of a 41 year old (in 2010) to characterize ALL of his career?

Misrepresenting the narrowing of that gap by a 42 year old, by your own flights of fancy (team orders?) in 2011?

Criticizing MS's ruthlessness ontrack, while simultaneously lauding Senna.....?

Man..... Like others have said....

You Know MS is Back When Utter BS Like This Emerges :)

#15233 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 18:56

Hang on there a moment, Schumacher got comprehensively trashed by Rosberg last season, a total spanking, a complete schooling did Schumacher receive at the gifted hands of Mr. Rosberg, and this season sees Schumacher struggling mightily to get on even terms with the young talented Rosberg. So even if Schumacher does manage to eek out a higher points tally this season (with the aid of Ross and team orders it would now appear) it does not mean that Schumacher is better then the winless Mr. Rosberg. The combined points tallies for the past two seasons is Rosberg 217 Schumacher 142, Schumacher's total points deficit since he was teamed with young Mr. Rosberg is 75 points. If and when Schumacher manages to even up those numbers then we could say he has reached the same level as Rosberg. That leaves a long row to hoe for Schumacher, even with Ross in his corner screwing Rosberg at every turn it will still be a long time before Schumacher can manage to erase that enormous deficit. So at the moment Schumacher is not even a match for Rosberg and may never be.

Now consider this Schumacher has toiled two seasons as Rosberg's number two and in that time he has yet to manage a points total in either of those years that is greater then the total deficit for the two season period in question. Holy Crap!
Looking at the numbers this way it would seem obvious that Schumacher is currently a mid pack driver (flattered by teamorders) Combine that with all the ugly baggage that comes with Schumacher, punting, cheating, chopping, parking…. and it becomes very very clear that Schumacher is not and never will be among the great drivers of F1. Drivers like Senna Villeneuve, Clark, Alonso, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda! … Schumacher’s spotted record and his total sportsmanship fail over the years completely and entirely excludes him for consideration. That is not even mentioning the FACT that he can't best Rosberg without Ross hamstringing Nico. Schumacher among the greats ....pfffft not a chance.

:lol:
How's Jacques lately, Slate? Still a has-been, never-was, only won in a hyper car, made a clown of himself at BAR, long since forgotten turd? :eek: I can understand your wild-eyed rants to be fair, given that Michael looks FAR more competitive at 42 than your hero did at 32 :lol:

#15234 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 19:13

How's Jacques lately, Slate? Still a has-been, never-was, only won in a hyper car, made a clown of himself at BAR, long since forgotten turd? I can understand your wild-eyed rants to be fair, given that Michael looks FAR more competitive at 42 than your hero did at 32

I see you cannot refute any of the elements of my post so you attack wee Jacques. Here is a link to the Villeneuve thread. <a href="http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=107692" target="_blank">http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=107692</a>

Edited by SlateGray, 04 November 2011 - 00:45.


#15235 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 19:38

I see you cannot refute any of the elements of my post so you attack one of victims of Schumacher’s ugly sportsmanship failures instead, nice, classy …. childish. Here is a link to the current Villeneuve thread. <a href="http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=107692" target="_blank">http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=107692</a>

Your 'arguments' can be refuted all day long Slate, but since you're long since proven to be wilfuly obtuse and not remotely interested in debate, only flaim bating, it would be a abject waste of 10 minutes typing. Far more fun to hold up a mirror reflecting your posting method :wave:

#15236 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 19:56

Your 'arguments' can be refuted all day long Slate, but since you're long since proven to be wilfuly obtuse and not remotely interested in debate, only flaim bating, it would be a abject waste of 10 minutes typing. Far more fun to hold up a mirror reflecting your posting method

So you say you can but you really cannot, leaving you with nothing.
Did I get the numbers wrong? Was difference greater or lesser then the numbers indicate? Perhaps there is an error, if so please accept my apologies did Schumacher not cheat and ram and chop and park ... did those things not happen?

Edited by SlateGray, 04 November 2011 - 00:47.


#15237 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 19:58

Well, you do have a point: he isn't among the greatest.

He is the greatest.

#15238 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 20:54

So you say you can but you really cannot, leaving you with nothing.
Did I get the numbers wrong? Was the beating handed to Schumacher greater or lesser then the numbers indicate? Perhaps there is an error, if so please accept my apologies did Schumacher not cheat and ram and chop and park ... did those things not happen? Do you Schumacher supporters really want to consider him among the greats when he can't even beat a winless journeyman? Refute away …. Oh sorry forgot the truth cannot be refuted. Guess you will just have to live with Schumacher warts and all.

And there you go, proving my point perfectly. Spinning like Tony Blair on steroids you cutely imply MS at 42 is the MS that should be judged for 'greatness' and brush off his opponent as a winless jouneyman as if it's widely accepted he's useless. Part one of that claim is catestrophically flawed, part two is very highly debatable, and the whole is exactly the sort of myopic inflamatory idiocy that got you banned for trolling and is the reason you have absolutely no credibility. That's the truth, warts 'n all.

#15239 baddog

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 20:55

Slatey is no troll. One of the most consistently wrongheaded posters over a 10 year period I have ever seen, but a genuine guy nonetheless.

Oh and when Michael finishes ahead this year it will mean he is better than Rosberg right now. Significantly better in fact, given that the points-loss from fortune have been skewed against him not towards him. F1 works in seasons.. they even award a trophy for each one of those ;)

And lets face it Michael isnt going to get worse and Nico isnt going to get better. last year was as good as it gets for Nico in that partnership. No wonder he is flailing in the press.

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#15240 Afterburner

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 21:02

I see you cannot refute any of the elements of my post so you attack one of victims of Schumacher’s ugly sportsmanship failures instead, nice, classy …. childish.

Let's see... because of that move, Schumacher gets DSQ'd, Villeneuve becomes WDC.

"Victim"? :rotfl:

Do you Schumacher supporters really want to consider him among the greats when he can't even beat a winless journeyman? Refute away …. Oh sorry forgot the truth cannot be refuted. Guess you will just have to live with Schumacher warts and all.

Right--and 'warts and all', including his arguably lousy comeback, Adelaide '94, Jerez '97, Monaco '06, Schumacher is still one of my favourite drivers, if not my favourite (hard choice between him and Vettel). :)

He set a new benchmark in terms of success throughout his career, due in part to the team he built at Ferrari. If you can't understand the magnitude of Schumacher's achievements and the impact they had on F1, then I'm sorry. After reading some of your posts from years ago, I know that you aren't completely incapable of objectivity--why is it then, that when it comes to the topic of MS, you choose to make posts like this rather than being balanced about it? You'll make far more friends than enemies that way, even among people who disagree with you. ;)

#15241 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 21:51

Slatey is no troll. One of the most consistently wrongheaded posters over a 10 year period I have ever seen, but a genuine guy nonetheless.

Oh and when Michael finishes ahead this year it will mean he is better than Rosberg right now. Significantly better in fact, given that the points-loss from fortune have been skewed against him not towards him. F1 works in seasons.. they even award a trophy for each one of those ;)

And lets face it Michael isnt going to get worse and Nico isnt going to get better. last year was as good as it gets for Nico in that partnership. No wonder he is flailing in the press.


Thanks for the support baddog, I know you to be a lover of F1 and a fan of quality driving as am I.
I also know you are a supporter of Michael Schumacher which makes your support of "Slatey" all the more appreciated. I have noticed that you are one of the few posters that look at the facts square in the face even if you don't like the facts and base your judgements on rational thought. You take the time to understand others points of view and counter with your always well written and balanced opinions. Thank you for that.
I don't see that from any of the other Schumacher supporters, all we ever get from them is knee jerk attacks on posters who's message they cannot or will not engage. Simply attack the messenger, call names, or cry to the admins. While I admit my posting about Schumacher is very one sided it is only as a counter to those that think Schumacher is the best ever. When faced with points to the contrary do these Schumacher supporters try to refute, challenge, dispute or disprove? No they call names and throw sticks and stones. The surest sign of a failed position. Hats off to you baddog I just wish there where more rational supporters of Schumacher on this board, but there in lies the rub, being rational and a Schumacher supporter is a unnatural mix it would seem.

#15242 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:00

Thanks for the support baddog, I know you to be a lover of F1 and a fan of quality driving as am I.
I also know you are a supporter of Michael Schumacher which makes your support of "Slatey" all the more appreciated. I have noticed that you are one of the few posters that look at the facts square in the face even if you don't like the facts and base your judgements on rational thought. You take the time to understand others points of view and counter with your always well written and balanced opinions. Thank you for that.
I don't see that from any of the other Schumacher supporters, all we ever get from them is knee jerk attacks on posters who's message they cannot or will not engage. Simply attack the messenger, call names, or cry to the admins. While I admit my posting about Schumacher is very one sided it is only as a counter to those that think Schumacher is the best ever. When faced with points to the contrary do these Schumacher supporters try to refute, challenge, dispute or disprove? No they call names and throw sticks and stones. The surest sign of a failed position. Hats off to you baddog I just wish there where more rational supporters of Schumacher on this board, but there in lies the rub, being rational and a Schumacher supporter is a unnatural mix it would seem.

Why not stop the hypocrisy and address your critics then? For example, do you honestly think it a fair, sensible and objective argument to suggest that MS can't be considered among the greats because he (at 42) can't beat a winless jouneyman (Rosberg)?

#15243 Raelene

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:05

know you to be a lover of F1 and a fan of quality driving as am I.


that's an absolute load of crap - you are not a lover of F1 - you are just someone that likes to come in here and flame and stir. If you were a love rof F1, you would not do that

#15244 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:13

Why not stop the hypocrisy and address your critics then? For example, do you honestly think it a fair, sensible and objective argument to suggest that MS can't be considered among the greats because he (at 42) can't beat a winless jouneyman (Rosberg)?

Considering all the crowing his supporters do, "the greatest ever blah blah blah" the answer is yes I think it a fair, sensible and objective argument to suggest that Schumacher cannot be considered among the greats. He is just not that good. Can't even beat "barbie"

If you review my posting you will see that it is his dangerous and offside behaviour, that excludes him for me, not the fact that he is being slightly shaded by Rosberg.
To be a real champion you not only need to know how to win but you also need to know how to lose with dignity. Schumacher lacks that ability he is a classic example of a me generation poor sport. You can mention Senna all you like but it is just not the same Senna was not a consistent, serial offender the way Schumacher is (RB against the wall last year comes to mind as a fresh transgression) His flaws out weigh his accomplishments for me.

Edited by SlateGray, 04 November 2011 - 00:49.


#15245 Wi000

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:14

Thanks for the support........................
................it would seem.

Question Slatey,: when are you going to talk about Michael Schumacher instead of his supporters?
While I'm at it can you confirm that you're not Tony Dodgins like some idiot (pay attention Bieberventura) claimed?

#15246 SlateGray

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:16

Why not stop the hypocrisy and address your critics then? For example, do you honestly think it a fair, sensible and objective argument to suggest that MS can't be considered among the greats because he (at 42) can't beat a winless jouneyman (Rosberg)?

Sorry missed something in my first reply.
Would you be so kind as to point out an example of SlateGray's "hypocrisy"
You might want to look up the definition first however.

#15247 Raelene

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:19

I'm glad I support someone - warts and all and don't expect perfection.

I also like the fact that I can see recognise and appreciate talent - whether I like the person or not - Lewham perfect examples - don't like him at all, but he is super talented.


Edited by Raelene, 03 November 2011 - 22:21.


#15248 Schumacher7

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:34

This is one of the reasons why Michael Schumacher is and always will be my favourite driver, because he's so controversial and gets people so annoyed and so amazed that they hate and love him religiously, respectively.

#15249 Group B

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 22:41

Considering all the crowing his supporters do, "the greatest ever blah blah blah" the answer is yes I think it a fair, sensible and objective argument to suggest that Schumacher cannot be considered among the greats. He is just not that good. Can't even beat "barbie"

If you review my posting you will see that it is his dangerous and offside behaviour, cheating, chopping, punting, parking... that excludes him for me, not the fact that he is being schooled by Rosberg.
To be a real champion you not only need to know how to win but you also need to know how to lose with dignity. Schumacher lacks that ability he is a classic example of a me generation poor sport. You can mention Senna all you like but it is just not the same Senna was not a consistent, serial offender the way Schumacher is (RB against the wall last year comes to mind as a fresh transgression) His flaws out weigh his accomplishments for me.

There you go again; firstly to resort to your ceaselessly repeated punting, parking, piffle instead of answering the question, then you slip in another 'fact' that isn't one. I'll bet you any figure you'd like to name that if you asked 100 pit lane experts whether NR was currently 'schooling' MS the vast majority would say otherwise; to anyone remotely objective it's clearly very close between them and if anyone has had a slight edge as the season progressed it's MS.

Getting back to the original question, can you seriously not understand that a given sportsman's 'greatness' (performance wise) is judged by the level he produces in his peak years? You don't say that Sampras isn't great based on how he played in his last year, or Tiger Woods is a journeyman because he hasn't got close to winning a major lately. And who, apart from you, is convinced NR is so crap anyway? According to a current thread Ferrari are sniffing around him.


#15250 Sakae

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 23:02

Hang on there a moment, Schumacher got comprehensively trashed by Rosberg last season, a total spanking, a complete schooling did Schumacher receive at the gifted hands of Mr. Rosberg, and this season sees Schumacher struggling mightily to get on even terms with the young talented Rosberg. So even if Schumacher does manage to eek out a higher points tally this season (with the aid of Ross and team orders it would now appear) it does not mean that Schumacher is better then the winless Mr. Rosberg. The combined points tallies for the past two seasons is Rosberg 217 Schumacher 142, Schumacher's total points deficit since he was teamed with young Mr. Rosberg is 75 points. If and when Schumacher manages to even up those numbers then we could say he has reached the same level as Rosberg. That leaves a long row to hoe for Schumacher, even with Ross in his corner screwing Rosberg at every turn it will still be a long time before Schumacher can manage to erase that enormous deficit. So at the moment Schumacher is not even a match for Rosberg and may never be.

Now consider this Schumacher has toiled two seasons as Rosberg's number two and in that time he has yet to manage a points total in either of those years that is greater then the total deficit for the two season period in question. Holy Crap!
Looking at the numbers this way it would seem obvious that Schumacher is currently a mid pack driver (flattered by teamorders) Combine that with all the ugly baggage that comes with Schumacher, punting, cheating, chopping, parking…. and it becomes very very clear that Schumacher is not and never will be among the great drivers of F1. Drivers like Senna Villeneuve, Clark, Alonso, Ascari, Rindt, Peterson, Stewart, Lauda! … Schumacher’s spotted record and his total sportsmanship fail over the years completely and entirely excludes him for consideration. That is not even mentioning the FACT that he can't best Rosberg without Ross hamstringing Nico. Schumacher among the greats ....pfffft not a chance.

Have you been secretly in training at an other forum? Your conditioning is impecable, and your dislike of Schumacher has lost nothing of its edge.