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#15551 sharo

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:48

Points taken but a race to forget for Michael. Struggled the whole race.
Hope Brazil will be different.

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#15552 Richardc

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:49

Yeah, it was boring and not great race by him. But it didn't actually cost him more than 1 position, so no problem really. Brazil is next, and i'll wish for rain.

#15553 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:49

+1 position, not bad. FI very fast, they catch MGP. Good that Sutil eat his tyres.

#15554 Dalton007

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:50

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.

#15555 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:51

Horrible race, decent result.

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.



Actually today was the exception.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 November 2011 - 14:51.


#15556 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:51

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.

Not really. Look India is that what you talk about. Schooling.


#15557 arknor

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:51

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.

read the thread title your posting in the wrong one

#15558 Urawa

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:57

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.


Worst finishing result for Michael since Germany(!) and best result for Nico since Spa (together with India).
Talking about "normal service"

#15559 Mastah

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 14:59

I waited for the race to finish, because after quali usual suspects were talking usual BS "different set-up oriented towards race". Yeah, race results showed that :rolleyes:. Trashed in quali, trashed in race. One Mercedes was fighting with Ferrari, the second with Schumi behind the wheel was defending against Force India :down:.

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#15560 Kubiccia

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:06

Normal service resumed :) Rosberg schooled Michael.

In the need for attention? :rotfl:



#15561 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:25

I waited for the race to finish, because after quali usual suspects were talking usual BS "different set-up oriented towards race". Yeah, race results showed that :rolleyes:. Trashed in quali, trashed in race. One Mercedes was fighting with Ferrari, the second with Schumi behind the wheel was defending against Force India :down:.

Can you remind me which driver was beaten by Jaime(STR) in Korea?
Any words from MS? He didn't speak on RTL again.

Edited by ivand911, 13 November 2011 - 15:34.


#15562 zelpre

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:26

Michael just had an interview for BBC. He had a puncture at the end of the race. He said that Nico had better tyres at the start..and that his tyres unfortunately gone quite fast. He lost some aerodynamic parts, didn't know what was happening with the car and so lost some balance because of that.

Weekend to forget I would say, let's move on in Brazil, hopefully with a strong weekend and hopefully gets 7 points more than Nico.

Edited by zelpre, 13 November 2011 - 15:27.


#15563 ali.unal

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:28

Schumacher was very down. I think this weekend Rosberg was just better than him. He (Rosberg) also made a point by setting his fastest lap in the very last lap, trying to give a message, I'd guess.

#15564 HaPe

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:28

I waited for the race to finish, because after quali usual suspects were talking usual BS "different set-up oriented towards race". Yeah, race results showed that :rolleyes:. Trashed in quali, trashed in race. One Mercedes was fighting with Ferrari, the second with Schumi behind the wheel was defending against Force India :down:.

Well ... in a bit of defense:
Schumachers DRS was not working properly in qualifying.

Schu has changed rear wing on his car, problem with DRS
http://twitter.com/#!/Jamesallenonf1/s...701941488582656

In the race it was also notable that MSC lost his laptime mostly in sector 2 (where the 2 long straights are) - so still problems with rear wing (although cannot be just DRS then in the race)?
First stint was clearly Rosbergs. First half of second stint, Schumacher drove constantly slightly better laptimes than Rosberg. Later then, Rosberg turned around and drove bit faster than Schumacher - but still the lap time difference was small.
Schumacher drove more constant while Rosbergs laptimes were more up and down (with some very fast laps within though).
Then in stint 3 the strategy was splitted with pitstop timing so hard to compare ... but it has to be noted that Schumachers laptimes got rather slower to the end - and since he stopped the car after the cheqeured flag on the track it hints that he had to save fuel in the last stint?

Edited by HaPe, 13 November 2011 - 15:29.


#15565 Konsta

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:36

Well ... in a bit of defense:
Schumachers DRS was not working properly in qualifying.

Schu has changed rear wing on his car, problem with DRS
http://twitter.com/#!/Jamesallenonf1/s...701941488582656

In the race it was also notable that MSC lost his laptime mostly in sector 2 (where the 2 long straights are) - so still problems with rear wing (although cannot be just DRS then in the race)?
First stint was clearly Rosbergs. First half of second stint, Schumacher drove constantly slightly better laptimes than Rosberg. Later then, Rosberg turned around and drove bit faster than Schumacher - but still the lap time difference was small.
Schumacher drove more constant while Rosbergs laptimes were more up and down (with some very fast laps within though).
Then in stint 3 the strategy was splitted with pitstop timing so hard to compare ... but it has to be noted that Schumachers laptimes got rather slower to the end - and since he stopped the car after the cheqeured flag on the track it hints that he had to save fuel in the last stint?


TBH Nico´s ups and downs were from fast to faster when Michael´s laps were slowish throughout the race. How come Michael can know that Nico´s tires were better instead of driver just being better??

#15566 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:38

TBH Nico´s ups and downs were from fast to faster when Michael´s laps were slowish throughout the race. How come Michael can know that Nico´s tires were better instead of driver just being better??

Maybe he mean that Nico started with SN and MS was with SU(used). Is it so hard?


#15567 HaPe

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:39

TBH Nico´s ups and downs were from fast to faster when Michael´s laps were slowish throughout the race.

No, not in stint 2.
For example: While MSC was lapping contantly around 1:46.0, Nico was doing 1.46.3, 1.46.1, 1.46.3, ..etc. .then suddenly a 1:45.8 ... and back to 1:46.+

How come Michael can know that Nico´s tires were better instead of driver just being better??

Less laps on it?! Pretty easy counting (and knowing how much quali laps on a tire does cost).

HaPe

Edited by HaPe, 13 November 2011 - 15:42.


#15568 Paco

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:48

Its all double talk. Tires this .. tires that. Rear wing this.. rear wing that..

Nico simply was more comfortable all weekend. Really no big deal as Merc is still 4th best so .. doesn't make any difference as they are near a podium anyway. I wish the drivers would simply just state the obvious... we as a team were simply not good enough again this weekend. Got the most out of it we could but it's still not enough.

#15569 Paco

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:51

Schumacher was very down. I think this weekend Rosberg was just better than him. He (Rosberg) also made a point by setting his fastest lap in the very last lap, trying to give a message, I'd guess.



If you believe that.. then he is an absolute fool. Ross and Co. should be... WTF.. you had the speed all along you just nailed a quick one at the end to prove a point. Shame on you.. :mad: :mad: :mad: I'd take him in the back and whip him silly if he was driving for me and doing some stupid crap like that considering they are in no position to show boat..

Edited by Paco, 13 November 2011 - 15:52.


#15570 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:58

What happen with MS and RTL? Love lost?

#15571 Mastah

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:58

Can you remind me which driver was beaten by Jaime(STR) in Korea?


That race where there was only one Mercedes at the end, so we don't know what kind of pace the car had :rolleyes:? Today there were two cars racing from beginning to the end, so we have a clear comparison: one driver was able to race with much faster Ferrari, second one had to defend against much slower Force India.



Michael just had an interview for BBC. He had a puncture at the end of the race. He said that Nico had better tyres at the start..and that his tyres unfortunately gone quite fast.


But someone (ivan?) said yesterday he saved his tyres by driving slowly in quali :lol:. Does not compute :lol:.



Maybe he mean that Nico started with SN and MS was with SU(used). Is it so hard?


And you want to discuss with no knowledge of rules? Both drivers had timed, competetive laps, in Q3, so they both had used softs at the start.

#15572 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:00

What happen with MS and RTL? Love lost?


He had a short pre-race interview, so who knows.

#15573 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:04

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."

So another troll who has no clue about F1.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 November 2011 - 16:06.


#15574 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:07

That race where there was only one Mercedes at the end, so we don't know what kind of pace the car had :rolleyes:? Today there were two cars racing from beginning to the end, so we have a clear comparison: one driver was able to race with much faster Ferrari, second one had to defend against much slower Force India.

But someone (ivan?) said yesterday he saved his tyres by driving slowly in quali :lol:. Does not compute :lol:.

And you want to discuss with no knowledge of rules? Both drivers had timed, competetive laps, in Q3, so they both had used softs at the start.

This don't mean that Nico can't start with tyres with less laps on them?
And according to you , driver is the only one who is responsible for car speed?
And one Ferrari was 42 sec ahead of the other Ferrari. Today FI was not very slow.



#15575 Urawa

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:08

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."


Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.


#15576 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:10

Hehe Michael. Love how this once King of the F1 mountain looks like a rookie at times, is it really him or someone who's had plastic surgery to look like him, yet is not that f1 skilled hehe

Just kidding, but I wish he had a fast car...

#15577 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:12

Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.

First stint was not so bad, difference 0,2 to 0,5 sec. Last two laps tyres were gone(they have to pit earlier). Not sure about that tyres have only 6 laps on them. And loosing aero parts doesn't help too. MS lost 6 sec in India in the first stint ,now he lost 8 sec. So, this was not the problem.


#15578 spa08

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:13

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."

So another troll who has no clue about F1.


If Michael was quicker in qualifying he wouldn't be having these issues, no excuse!

#15579 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:13

Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.


Michael had to nurse them so he could get in the pitwindow but he also had to defend. So his tires were completely destroyed by the end of the first stint without being able to go fast.

In the second stint Michael managed to keep Nico's pace for a while but Nico was in the end faster and had preserved tires better. So much better set up for Nico.

Overall a bad weekend but he lost still achieved the most for the team.

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#15580 exmayol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:41

Not the best weekend for MS but not the worst either. He'll do better in Brazil.

#15581 HaPe

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:48

If Michael was quicker in qualifying he wouldn't be having these issues, no excuse!

Good morning.....
Schumacher had another DRS malfunction during qualifying yesterday (changed rear wing before the race).

HaPe

#15582 Mastah

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 17:04

This don't mean that Nico can't start with tyres with less laps on them?


New softs are NEW, therefore with no (fast) laps done on them whatsoever. So they both started the race on used tyres, not like you wanted to insinuate that Schumi was disadvanteged due to new softs which supposedly his team mate had.

Today FI was not very slow.


It was much slower car than Mercedes. 8 tenths in quali, 5 tenths on average in race (7-8 tenths if they would be on the same strategy as Mercedes). How can you lose to that much slower car? By performing badly, which we saw today by Michael.

#15583 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 17:55

It was much slower car than Mercedes. 8 tenths in quali, 5 tenths on average in race (7-8 tenths if they would be on the same strategy as Mercedes). How can you lose to that much slower car? By performing badly, which we saw today by Michael.

STR is even slower than MGP. Ask Nico how he lost from Jaime? Or Lewis last race(beaten by MGP)? Nico have lost to the DIR and Sutil too in earlier races. MS didn't lost today to the Sutil even if his car was not in the best set up/shape.

Edited by ivand911, 13 November 2011 - 17:56.


#15584 marcoferrari

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 18:03

Because he don't have driver that he likes. He is professional troll.


Exactly... He is constantly trolling in Schumacher, Senna, Alguersuari and Sutil threads... :down:

#15585 Muz Bee

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:03

No, not in stint 2.
For example: While MSC was lapping contantly around 1:46.0, Nico was doing 1.46.3, 1.46.1, 1.46.3, ..etc. .then suddenly a 1:45.8 ... and back to 1:46.+


Less laps on it?! Pretty easy counting (and knowing how much quali laps on a tire does cost).

HaPe


Looks to me like you are writing your own facts in there. I've looked at the times and neither driver was clicking off consistent lap times in stint 2. Looks like Rosberg was holding back with the tyres after the first pitstop but then from lap 34 Michael's times started to fall away relative to Nico's at nearly 0.5. Final stint of course Nico had only 7 laps left so he could give it everything in his efforts to catch Massa.

It all points to tyre management being a huge part of race pace but today Nico was able to manage and race his teammate. It's frustrating that tyre preservation prevents us seeing a driver's true ability from a speed perspective. It certainly looks like NR has a clear edge on raw pace but MS can sometimes massage the race strategy and tyre degradation.

#15586 black magic

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:26

this was never going to be a michael weekend. not his style of track - more point and squirt with lots of slow corners.

nico did a better job all weekend

as for being spanked, michael slowing at the end made it closer than it was.

michael start 8 finish 7, rosberg start 7 finish 6 - only because seb dnf. not much to get excited about really.

will calm the naysayers - so good luck to them. looking at nico come across immediately to cover michael claerly he has now focused solely on beating michael such is the pressure that has been steadily building.

no its not michael of 2001 but then most of us have got used to that concept and enjoy the glimpses of the maestro we get - such as battling hamilton and his first lap performances. this wmust be his first for ages where he did not end lap 1 ahead of anyone(guess seb is technical pass in reality and rosberg got back past)

#15587 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:18

Looks to me like you are writing your own facts in there. I've looked at the times and neither driver was clicking off consistent lap times in stint 2. Looks like Rosberg was holding back with the tyres after the first pitstop but then from lap 34 Michael's times started to fall away relative to Nico's at nearly 0.5.

I explicitely talked about the beginning of stint 2, not the whole. I also wrote that Nico turned it around later in stint 2.
Furthermore this was all written from memory of watching the livetiming and not with the comfort of an "excel sheet" with the laptimes available now.

Here are the laps that I had in mind (21-27)
MSC 1:46.098 1:46.091 1:46.191 1:45.800 1:45.689 1:46.111 1:45.844
ROS 1:46.104 1:46.241 1:46.072 1:46.129 1:46.142 1:45.767 1:46.180

U still want to say I write "my own facts"?

#15588 holiday

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:31

Rosberg was faster and if the gap between Mercedes and the rest of the pack were less pronounced, Schumacher might not even have been able to hold on his 7th place. Still, he showed his racer heart in the first lap with essentially slower pace/car. Let us move on to Interlagos where MS has a long history of destroying the local heros.

#15589 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:37

Good morning.....
Schumacher had another DRS malfunction during qualifying yesterday (changed rear wing before the race).

HaPe


Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

#15590 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:40

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p


Of course, Merc changed the rear wing to get some exercise. :rolleyes:

#15591 puxanando

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:41

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

:lol: And this giving him his number of luck and much more than Britney!

#15592 ivand911

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:01

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

It is not like every other team don't have problems with them. Button, Senna, else. But, of course MS devices must work flawlessly. Because why?

Edited by ivand911, 14 November 2011 - 10:02.


#15593 Wade

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:18

MS wins "ZOMG TEAM ORDERS!!!111 TIS SO UNFAIR!!!1111"

MS loses "ZOMG OLD MAN SCHUMACHER SUCKS RETIRE!!!!1111"

#15594 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:22

It is not like every other team don't have problems with them. Button, Senna, else. But, of course MS devices must work flawlessly. Because why?


You should know best how much more often it's claimed that MS KERS/F-duct/DRS was stuck compared to Rosberg in the same car. Why?

#15595 sharo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:26

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

So, by your logic, we should not believe that Button's KERS didn't work either.
Nico may be a bit faster, bur when there is a significant difference, there's something else besides the old man should retire mantra. And you know it perfectly well, which makes you look way too low for your intelligence.

Anyway, keep going, this thread can in no way go any lower.

#15596 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:26

You should know best how much more often it's claimed that MS KERS/F-duct/DRS was stuck compared to Rosberg in the same car. Why?


Because he had more technical problems?

Unbelievable suggestion, in know.

#15597 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:05

Because he had more technical problems?

Unbelievable suggestion, in know.


Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

#15598 sharo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:20

Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

You make too generous generalizations about his fans though. There are so many factors and facts we do not know. Therefore jumping to and repeating definite conclusions either way (pro and con) is not a serious attitude. There is no official info, just my personal observation, but for those 2 years Nico has been the one to get the new parts, the new chassis, etc., while Michael usually had to wait. Also from development POV Michael is the more suitable of the pair for experimenting with the car - both from pure experience and feedback ability and from a psychological view, since he has nothing to prove ATM and only a prospect for a real challenge to the front is what could make this change.
Finally, it may be that he still cannot master the car on a street type circuit with slow corners and EBD system which requires a different driving style.

#15599 arknor

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:23

Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

schumacher was testing 2012 parts during the practice sessions and didnt find enough time to get a proper setup for the race.

why do you think bell was at the circuit and not the factory?  ;)  ;) ;)

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#15600 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 16:59

Not unbelievable, just... strange.

Back in 2000-2001 when Barrichello had a lot more technical issues than Schumacher there was NEVER a suspect of this not being true.
Instead the Schumacher haters exxagerated about Barrichello being disadvantaged (by purpose) etc.pp.

Now when Schumacher has all the bad luck with technical issues, its always a lie / alibi.
..just ridiculous. :drunk: