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#15551 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:58

What happen with MS and RTL? Love lost?

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#15552 Mastah

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 15:58

Can you remind me which driver was beaten by Jaime(STR) in Korea?


That race where there was only one Mercedes at the end, so we don't know what kind of pace the car had :rolleyes:? Today there were two cars racing from beginning to the end, so we have a clear comparison: one driver was able to race with much faster Ferrari, second one had to defend against much slower Force India.



Michael just had an interview for BBC. He had a puncture at the end of the race. He said that Nico had better tyres at the start..and that his tyres unfortunately gone quite fast.


But someone (ivan?) said yesterday he saved his tyres by driving slowly in quali :lol:. Does not compute :lol:.



Maybe he mean that Nico started with SN and MS was with SU(used). Is it so hard?


And you want to discuss with no knowledge of rules? Both drivers had timed, competetive laps, in Q3, so they both had used softs at the start.

#15553 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:00

What happen with MS and RTL? Love lost?


He had a short pre-race interview, so who knows.

#15554 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:04

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."

So another troll who has no clue about F1.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 November 2011 - 16:06.


#15555 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:07

That race where there was only one Mercedes at the end, so we don't know what kind of pace the car had :rolleyes:? Today there were two cars racing from beginning to the end, so we have a clear comparison: one driver was able to race with much faster Ferrari, second one had to defend against much slower Force India.

But someone (ivan?) said yesterday he saved his tyres by driving slowly in quali :lol:. Does not compute :lol:.

And you want to discuss with no knowledge of rules? Both drivers had timed, competetive laps, in Q3, so they both had used softs at the start.

This don't mean that Nico can't start with tyres with less laps on them?
And according to you , driver is the only one who is responsible for car speed?
And one Ferrari was 42 sec ahead of the other Ferrari. Today FI was not very slow.



#15556 Urawa

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:08

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."


Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.


#15557 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:10

Hehe Michael. Love how this once King of the F1 mountain looks like a rookie at times, is it really him or someone who's had plastic surgery to look like him, yet is not that f1 skilled hehe

Just kidding, but I wish he had a fast car...

#15558 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:12

Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.

First stint was not so bad, difference 0,2 to 0,5 sec. Last two laps tyres were gone(they have to pit earlier). Not sure about that tyres have only 6 laps on them. And loosing aero parts doesn't help too. MS lost 6 sec in India in the first stint ,now he lost 8 sec. So, this was not the problem.


#15559 spa08

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:13

Haters gonna hate :

"But then, I did lose some small parts of the car which cost us some balance, and towards the end I had a slow puncture, which is why I had to park my car at turn two. The tyres gave up rather early in the first stint but that was due to our tyre strategy yesterday when we wanted to save a fresh set for the race. I therefore had quite used tyres for the start."

So another troll who has no clue about F1.


If Michael was quicker in qualifying he wouldn't be having these issues, no excuse!

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#15560 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:13

Already thought that. So the tyres had already 6 laps (one Q2 and one Q3 run) done. Doesn´t explain all of the first bad stint but parts of it.


Michael had to nurse them so he could get in the pitwindow but he also had to defend. So his tires were completely destroyed by the end of the first stint without being able to go fast.

In the second stint Michael managed to keep Nico's pace for a while but Nico was in the end faster and had preserved tires better. So much better set up for Nico.

Overall a bad weekend but he lost still achieved the most for the team.

#15561 exmayol

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:41

Not the best weekend for MS but not the worst either. He'll do better in Brazil.

#15562 HaPe

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 16:48

If Michael was quicker in qualifying he wouldn't be having these issues, no excuse!

Good morning.....
Schumacher had another DRS malfunction during qualifying yesterday (changed rear wing before the race).

HaPe

#15563 Mastah

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 17:04

This don't mean that Nico can't start with tyres with less laps on them?


New softs are NEW, therefore with no (fast) laps done on them whatsoever. So they both started the race on used tyres, not like you wanted to insinuate that Schumi was disadvanteged due to new softs which supposedly his team mate had.

Today FI was not very slow.


It was much slower car than Mercedes. 8 tenths in quali, 5 tenths on average in race (7-8 tenths if they would be on the same strategy as Mercedes). How can you lose to that much slower car? By performing badly, which we saw today by Michael.

#15564 ivand911

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 17:55

It was much slower car than Mercedes. 8 tenths in quali, 5 tenths on average in race (7-8 tenths if they would be on the same strategy as Mercedes). How can you lose to that much slower car? By performing badly, which we saw today by Michael.

STR is even slower than MGP. Ask Nico how he lost from Jaime? Or Lewis last race(beaten by MGP)? Nico have lost to the DIR and Sutil too in earlier races. MS didn't lost today to the Sutil even if his car was not in the best set up/shape.

Edited by ivand911, 13 November 2011 - 17:56.


#15565 marcoferrari

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 18:03

Because he don't have driver that he likes. He is professional troll.


Exactly... He is constantly trolling in Schumacher, Senna, Alguersuari and Sutil threads... :down:

#15566 Muz Bee

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 22:03

No, not in stint 2.
For example: While MSC was lapping contantly around 1:46.0, Nico was doing 1.46.3, 1.46.1, 1.46.3, ..etc. .then suddenly a 1:45.8 ... and back to 1:46.+


Less laps on it?! Pretty easy counting (and knowing how much quali laps on a tire does cost).

HaPe


Looks to me like you are writing your own facts in there. I've looked at the times and neither driver was clicking off consistent lap times in stint 2. Looks like Rosberg was holding back with the tyres after the first pitstop but then from lap 34 Michael's times started to fall away relative to Nico's at nearly 0.5. Final stint of course Nico had only 7 laps left so he could give it everything in his efforts to catch Massa.

It all points to tyre management being a huge part of race pace but today Nico was able to manage and race his teammate. It's frustrating that tyre preservation prevents us seeing a driver's true ability from a speed perspective. It certainly looks like NR has a clear edge on raw pace but MS can sometimes massage the race strategy and tyre degradation.

#15567 black magic

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 01:26

this was never going to be a michael weekend. not his style of track - more point and squirt with lots of slow corners.

nico did a better job all weekend

as for being spanked, michael slowing at the end made it closer than it was.

michael start 8 finish 7, rosberg start 7 finish 6 - only because seb dnf. not much to get excited about really.

will calm the naysayers - so good luck to them. looking at nico come across immediately to cover michael claerly he has now focused solely on beating michael such is the pressure that has been steadily building.

no its not michael of 2001 but then most of us have got used to that concept and enjoy the glimpses of the maestro we get - such as battling hamilton and his first lap performances. this wmust be his first for ages where he did not end lap 1 ahead of anyone(guess seb is technical pass in reality and rosberg got back past)

#15568 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:18

Looks to me like you are writing your own facts in there. I've looked at the times and neither driver was clicking off consistent lap times in stint 2. Looks like Rosberg was holding back with the tyres after the first pitstop but then from lap 34 Michael's times started to fall away relative to Nico's at nearly 0.5.

I explicitely talked about the beginning of stint 2, not the whole. I also wrote that Nico turned it around later in stint 2.
Furthermore this was all written from memory of watching the livetiming and not with the comfort of an "excel sheet" with the laptimes available now.

Here are the laps that I had in mind (21-27)
MSC 1:46.098 1:46.091 1:46.191 1:45.800 1:45.689 1:46.111 1:45.844
ROS 1:46.104 1:46.241 1:46.072 1:46.129 1:46.142 1:45.767 1:46.180

U still want to say I write "my own facts"?

#15569 holiday

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:31

Rosberg was faster and if the gap between Mercedes and the rest of the pack were less pronounced, Schumacher might not even have been able to hold on his 7th place. Still, he showed his racer heart in the first lap with essentially slower pace/car. Let us move on to Interlagos where MS has a long history of destroying the local heros.

#15570 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:37

Good morning.....
Schumacher had another DRS malfunction during qualifying yesterday (changed rear wing before the race).

HaPe


Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

#15571 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:40

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p


Of course, Merc changed the rear wing to get some exercise. :rolleyes:

#15572 puxanando

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:41

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

:lol: And this giving him his number of luck and much more than Britney!

#15573 ivand911

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:01

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

It is not like every other team don't have problems with them. Button, Senna, else. But, of course MS devices must work flawlessly. Because why?

Edited by ivand911, 14 November 2011 - 10:02.


#15574 Wade

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:18

MS wins "ZOMG TEAM ORDERS!!!111 TIS SO UNFAIR!!!1111"

MS loses "ZOMG OLD MAN SCHUMACHER SUCKS RETIRE!!!!1111"

#15575 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:22

It is not like every other team don't have problems with them. Button, Senna, else. But, of course MS devices must work flawlessly. Because why?


You should know best how much more often it's claimed that MS KERS/F-duct/DRS was stuck compared to Rosberg in the same car. Why?

#15576 sharo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:26

Oh yeah, that again. Funny that if MS has a bad weekend, in 9 out of 10 cases it's subsequently "discovered" that one of the new technology devices didn't work, either KERS, F-duct or DRS. It's been like that since the start of 2010... :p

So, by your logic, we should not believe that Button's KERS didn't work either.
Nico may be a bit faster, bur when there is a significant difference, there's something else besides the old man should retire mantra. And you know it perfectly well, which makes you look way too low for your intelligence.

Anyway, keep going, this thread can in no way go any lower.

#15577 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:26

You should know best how much more often it's claimed that MS KERS/F-duct/DRS was stuck compared to Rosberg in the same car. Why?


Because he had more technical problems?

Unbelievable suggestion, in know.

#15578 as65p

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:05

Because he had more technical problems?

Unbelievable suggestion, in know.


Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

#15579 sharo

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:20

Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

You make too generous generalizations about his fans though. There are so many factors and facts we do not know. Therefore jumping to and repeating definite conclusions either way (pro and con) is not a serious attitude. There is no official info, just my personal observation, but for those 2 years Nico has been the one to get the new parts, the new chassis, etc., while Michael usually had to wait. Also from development POV Michael is the more suitable of the pair for experimenting with the car - both from pure experience and feedback ability and from a psychological view, since he has nothing to prove ATM and only a prospect for a real challenge to the front is what could make this change.
Finally, it may be that he still cannot master the car on a street type circuit with slow corners and EBD system which requires a different driving style.

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#15580 arknor

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:23

Not unbelievable, just... strange. Curiously none of the fans seem overly concerned with it, normally one would expect them to question the reasons behind their man hampered time and again by similar technical issues. But instead, what you can hear listening closely, is a collective sigh of relief each time the news of MS' stuck devices come out. :drunk:

schumacher was testing 2012 parts during the practice sessions and didnt find enough time to get a proper setup for the race.

why do you think bell was at the circuit and not the factory?  ;)  ;) ;)

#15581 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 16:59

Not unbelievable, just... strange.

Back in 2000-2001 when Barrichello had a lot more technical issues than Schumacher there was NEVER a suspect of this not being true.
Instead the Schumacher haters exxagerated about Barrichello being disadvantaged (by purpose) etc.pp.

Now when Schumacher has all the bad luck with technical issues, its always a lie / alibi.
..just ridiculous. :drunk:

#15582 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 17:10

schumacher was testing 2012 parts during the practice sessions and didnt find enough time to get a proper setup for the race.

why do you think bell was at the circuit and not the factory? ;) ;);)



You know that for a fact? Or just deduction? Genuinely NOT trying to take anything away from NR, because he is doing a mighty fine job, but MS does seem to be withdrawn in every way. He doesn't seem to care too much, and if his past history is anything to go by, he is doing meticulous test work for next year. May be of course that I am totally wrong here, but I kind of imagine they lean on him heavily in certain respects. But we will only get answers to that next year.

#15583 Urawa

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 18:29

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.

Edited by Urawa, 14 November 2011 - 18:30.


#15584 Wettham

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 18:53

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.



It is strange that there is such a difference in straightline speed. If Michael's car was testing new parts in practice perhaps these were run in qualifying and race. Maybe they did not work or were not optimised?

Edited by Wettham, 14 November 2011 - 18:55.


#15585 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 19:40

does it really matter?

it's not like he has something to lose if some of the parts/setup choices go bad
he was slower this race and that is a fact. I don't think he'll be losing much sleep about it.

#15586 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 19:42

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.


Sorry, but thats just another crap article from AMuS.
First "car number 5" / Schumacher ... WTF? :rolleyes:
Second: The straightline speed was the issue in qualifying! The team changed the rear wing for the race.
In the race there was - at least by speed measures here - no sign of straightline speed issue anymore.

Edited by HaPe, 14 November 2011 - 19:43.


#15587 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:56

Sad thing is that the actual F1 racing is such a poor show these days that it forces too much emphasis on stupid car and driver comparisons rather than talking about "this and that exciting dice" that happened on track ....

#15588 BRK

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:18

Tired of all these problems on his car, KERS\DRS issues, slow puncture at the end....not that big a deal at this point in the season, anyway.

#15589 merschu

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:20

Schumi was skydiving in Florida yesterday according to some tweets! :)

captainpiccard:

OH MY ****ing GOD MICHAEL SCHUMACHER IS SKYDIVING HERE HE IS 10 FT FROM ME GAAAAAHHHHHH

AND HE IS ON THE SAME LOAD AS ME I JUST CAME AHHHHHHB http://twitpic.com/7h0qk9

AND SCHUMACHER SAT NEXT TO ME ON THE CLIMB UP...

@MrSteveMatchett schumi was skydiving today here in florida, got to ride up next to him on the aircraft...


Another person also tweeted
RaggaRagga:

jumped out of a plane today! kind of cool! Michael Schumacher was there too. a good way to spend a sunday!


Edited by merschu, 21 November 2011 - 08:25.


#15590 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:45

What a life eh? Every week you take a different holiday.

Posted Image

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 21 November 2011 - 09:46.


#15591 BRK

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:10

Fantastic stuff. :up:

Usually enters races under fake names but this is a different ball game altogether.

#15592 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:18

Tired of all these problems on his car, KERS\DRS issues, slow puncture at the end....not that big a deal at this point in the season, anyway.


Im tired of all the excuses. I know its hard to accept Michael being so consistently slow but its time to face the facts. He has been given a big enough chance, 2 seasons to find speed, and nothing has changed from the first race of 2010 (it rarely ever does). I hope he finds the dignity to retire and save himself more embaressment next year, or I hope mercedes have the balls to step up and replace him. A few tenths is ok but being almost 1 second a lap faster is pay driver material.

#15593 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:23

Im tired of all the excuses. I know its hard to accept Michael being so consistently slow but its time to face the facts. He has been given a big enough chance, 2 seasons to find speed, and nothing has changed from the first race of 2010 (it rarely ever does). I hope he finds the dignity to retire and save himself more embaressment next year, or I hope mercedes have the balls to step up and replace him. A few tenths is ok but being almost 1 second a lap faster is pay driver material.

If you got rid of every driver who has scored <90% of his team mates points then you'd be sacking almost half the field.

#15594 BRK

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:25

Schumacher's improvement between 2010 and this year is obvious, hope this carries over into 2012 and he gets even better.

#15595 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:32

If MS is 'embaressing' himself and should retire, does the same also apply to the 10 drivers who are faring worse than him relative to their team mates?

#15596 Sakae

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:32

Fantastic stuff. :up:

Usually enters races under fake names but this is a different ball game altogether.


Sorry, but I disagree. I think he is taking unnecessary risk. Less than Kubica, but still. If he got hurt, for one race left in this season he can be replaced. Missing however next season could hurt MGP team development. This is one of those times I disagree with Michael. His wardrobe would be probably second, but OK, his choice. (Before anyone jumps on me - I had 13 dives in my time as well, before I had an accident, so I know the risk well).



#15597 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:38

If MS is 'embaressing' himself and should retire, does the same also apply to the 10 drivers who are faring worse than him relative to their team mates?

The same logic cannot be applied to the others, he is 42, and because the average qualifying gap between Michael and his team mate is the largest or second largest on the entire grid. You would be using the points measure, but that is often very misleading. Pace is the true measure in this sport.

#15598 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:47

The same logic cannot be applied to the others, he is 42, and because the average qualifying gap between Michael and his team mate is the largest or second largest on the entire grid. You would be using the points measure, but that is often very misleading. Pace is the true measure in this sport.

Er, no; points are the true measure in this sport, and Michael has 92% of his team mate. We all know his qualifying has been poor, but in at least half the races he's been as good or better than Rosberg. Is he the same as 10 years ago? No. Is he worthy of his seat? Yes; unless you wish to sack half the grid.

#15599 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:51

Er, no; points are the true measure in this sport, and Michael has 92% of his team mate. We all know his qualifying has been poor, but in at least half the races he's been as good or better than Rosberg. Is he the same as 10 years ago? No. Is he worthy of his seat? Yes; unless you wish to sack half the grid.


Not true at all. Heidfeld had more points than petrov before he was sacked. Don't kid yourself, the teams value pace more than anything else.

Edited by Buttoneer, 21 November 2011 - 22:33.


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#15600 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:23

Not true at all. Heidfeld had more points than petrov before he was sacked. Don't kid yourself, the teams value pace more than anything else.


I understand that it is post-season(nearly) and nothing is happening, and you feel the need to entertain yourself with this BS, but that is lame and simply not true. Heidfeld was sacked because of money. He was not needed in the teem because their car was a pile of junk, they spared themselves from paying his salary.