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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#15601 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 17:10

schumacher was testing 2012 parts during the practice sessions and didnt find enough time to get a proper setup for the race.

why do you think bell was at the circuit and not the factory? ;) ;);)



You know that for a fact? Or just deduction? Genuinely NOT trying to take anything away from NR, because he is doing a mighty fine job, but MS does seem to be withdrawn in every way. He doesn't seem to care too much, and if his past history is anything to go by, he is doing meticulous test work for next year. May be of course that I am totally wrong here, but I kind of imagine they lean on him heavily in certain respects. But we will only get answers to that next year.

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#15602 Urawa

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 18:29

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.

Edited by Urawa, 14 November 2011 - 18:30.


#15603 Wettham

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 18:53

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.



It is strange that there is such a difference in straightline speed. If Michael's car was testing new parts in practice perhaps these were run in qualifying and race. Maybe they did not work or were not optimised?

Edited by Wettham, 14 November 2011 - 18:55.


#15604 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 19:40

does it really matter?

it's not like he has something to lose if some of the parts/setup choices go bad
he was slower this race and that is a fact. I don't think he'll be losing much sleep about it.

#15605 HaPe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 19:42

http://www.auto-moto...il-4098574.html

AMuS also noticed the lack of top speed. They say the car had "unexplainable" problems on the straights.
That´s where Michael in particular lost a lot of time but the engineers found no answer to solve the issue.


Sorry, but thats just another crap article from AMuS.
First "car number 5" / Schumacher ... WTF? :rolleyes:
Second: The straightline speed was the issue in qualifying! The team changed the rear wing for the race.
In the race there was - at least by speed measures here - no sign of straightline speed issue anymore.

Edited by HaPe, 14 November 2011 - 19:43.


#15606 cheapracer

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 08:56

Sad thing is that the actual F1 racing is such a poor show these days that it forces too much emphasis on stupid car and driver comparisons rather than talking about "this and that exciting dice" that happened on track ....

#15607 BRK

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:18

Tired of all these problems on his car, KERS\DRS issues, slow puncture at the end....not that big a deal at this point in the season, anyway.

#15608 merschu

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 08:20

Schumi was skydiving in Florida yesterday according to some tweets! :)

captainpiccard:

OH MY ****ing GOD MICHAEL SCHUMACHER IS SKYDIVING HERE HE IS 10 FT FROM ME GAAAAAHHHHHH

AND HE IS ON THE SAME LOAD AS ME I JUST CAME AHHHHHHB http://twitpic.com/7h0qk9

AND SCHUMACHER SAT NEXT TO ME ON THE CLIMB UP...

@MrSteveMatchett schumi was skydiving today here in florida, got to ride up next to him on the aircraft...


Another person also tweeted
RaggaRagga:

jumped out of a plane today! kind of cool! Michael Schumacher was there too. a good way to spend a sunday!


Edited by merschu, 21 November 2011 - 08:25.


#15609 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:45

What a life eh? Every week you take a different holiday.

Posted Image

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 21 November 2011 - 09:46.


#15610 BRK

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:10

Fantastic stuff. :up:

Usually enters races under fake names but this is a different ball game altogether.

#15611 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:18

Tired of all these problems on his car, KERS\DRS issues, slow puncture at the end....not that big a deal at this point in the season, anyway.


Im tired of all the excuses. I know its hard to accept Michael being so consistently slow but its time to face the facts. He has been given a big enough chance, 2 seasons to find speed, and nothing has changed from the first race of 2010 (it rarely ever does). I hope he finds the dignity to retire and save himself more embaressment next year, or I hope mercedes have the balls to step up and replace him. A few tenths is ok but being almost 1 second a lap faster is pay driver material.

#15612 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:23

Im tired of all the excuses. I know its hard to accept Michael being so consistently slow but its time to face the facts. He has been given a big enough chance, 2 seasons to find speed, and nothing has changed from the first race of 2010 (it rarely ever does). I hope he finds the dignity to retire and save himself more embaressment next year, or I hope mercedes have the balls to step up and replace him. A few tenths is ok but being almost 1 second a lap faster is pay driver material.

If you got rid of every driver who has scored <90% of his team mates points then you'd be sacking almost half the field.

#15613 BRK

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:25

Schumacher's improvement between 2010 and this year is obvious, hope this carries over into 2012 and he gets even better.

#15614 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:32

If MS is 'embaressing' himself and should retire, does the same also apply to the 10 drivers who are faring worse than him relative to their team mates?

#15615 Sakae

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:32

Fantastic stuff. :up:

Usually enters races under fake names but this is a different ball game altogether.


Sorry, but I disagree. I think he is taking unnecessary risk. Less than Kubica, but still. If he got hurt, for one race left in this season he can be replaced. Missing however next season could hurt MGP team development. This is one of those times I disagree with Michael. His wardrobe would be probably second, but OK, his choice. (Before anyone jumps on me - I had 13 dives in my time as well, before I had an accident, so I know the risk well).



#15616 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:38

If MS is 'embaressing' himself and should retire, does the same also apply to the 10 drivers who are faring worse than him relative to their team mates?

The same logic cannot be applied to the others, he is 42, and because the average qualifying gap between Michael and his team mate is the largest or second largest on the entire grid. You would be using the points measure, but that is often very misleading. Pace is the true measure in this sport.

#15617 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:47

The same logic cannot be applied to the others, he is 42, and because the average qualifying gap between Michael and his team mate is the largest or second largest on the entire grid. You would be using the points measure, but that is often very misleading. Pace is the true measure in this sport.

Er, no; points are the true measure in this sport, and Michael has 92% of his team mate. We all know his qualifying has been poor, but in at least half the races he's been as good or better than Rosberg. Is he the same as 10 years ago? No. Is he worthy of his seat? Yes; unless you wish to sack half the grid.

#15618 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:51

Er, no; points are the true measure in this sport, and Michael has 92% of his team mate. We all know his qualifying has been poor, but in at least half the races he's been as good or better than Rosberg. Is he the same as 10 years ago? No. Is he worthy of his seat? Yes; unless you wish to sack half the grid.


Not true at all. Heidfeld had more points than petrov before he was sacked. Don't kid yourself, the teams value pace more than anything else.

Edited by Buttoneer, 21 November 2011 - 22:33.


#15619 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:23

Not true at all. Heidfeld had more points than petrov before he was sacked. Don't kid yourself, the teams value pace more than anything else.


I understand that it is post-season(nearly) and nothing is happening, and you feel the need to entertain yourself with this BS, but that is lame and simply not true. Heidfeld was sacked because of money. He was not needed in the teem because their car was a pile of junk, they spared themselves from paying his salary.

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#15620 knowledge

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:31

I understand that it is post-season(nearly) and nothing is happening, and you feel the need to entertain yourself with this BS, but that is lame and simply not true. Heidfeld was sacked because of money. He was not needed in the teem because their car was a pile of junk, they spared themselves from paying his salary.



lol. So why didnt they sack Alonso for that very same reason in 08 and 09 when the cars were even more junk? and save themselves about 20 million a year? They hired Nick to lead the team and develop the car, so the worse it was the more they would have needed him. If your going to accuse someone of posting BS, then you should not bring a dump truck of it yourself. The team explicitely said why they sacked him anyway.

#15621 george1981

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:35

I'm amazed Mercedes or their insurers let MS do the parachute jump.
Back in the Ferrari days I'm sure MS was banned from nearly every sport that could be classified as dangerous.

#15622 Sakae

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:01

I'm amazed Mercedes or their insurers let MS do the parachute jump.
Back in the Ferrari days I'm sure MS was banned from nearly every sport that could be classified as dangerous.



That's a point I have made when Kubica was injured, and a large pool of posters (and some mods) were ready to hurt me because I was suggesting restrictions to lifestyle of their darling.

#15623 george1981

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 13:06

That's a point I have made when Kubica was injured, and a large pool of posters (and some mods) were ready to hurt me because I was suggesting restrictions to lifestyle of their darling.


I thought it was the insurers as much if not more than the teams who blocked the dangerous sports. I remember when MS broke his leg in 1999 he was meant to personally be getting paid something like $30k a day from his own insurance until he could get back to racing. I'm sure Ferrari had similar policies in place to recoup what they could have earned from publicity and prize money etc.


#15624 BRK

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 15:54

Sorry, but I disagree. I think he is taking unnecessary risk. Less than Kubica, but still. If he got hurt, for one race left in this season he can be replaced. Missing however next season could hurt MGP team development. This is one of those times I disagree with Michael. His wardrobe would be probably second, but OK, his choice. (Before anyone jumps on me - I had 13 dives in my time as well, before I had an accident, so I know the risk well).


Agreed, that's what I said when Kubica had his accident. The way I see it, though, is that at least if he's racing in F1 there's less chance he's going to play with bikes or do something more dangerous. I'm going to put this one down as an exception as the season's nearly done, time to have some fun.


#15625 cheapracer

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 16:05

The same logic cannot be applied to the others, he is 42, and because the average qualifying gap between Michael and his team mate is the largest or second largest on the entire grid.


As it was for Lauda against Prost but he managed to still win the championship - ironically when the points system applied today sees MS in front of Nico.



Pace is the true measure in this sport.


What an absolutely bullshit statement, the true measure is the race and the race only. I can name a half dozen drivers off the top of my head who were "faster" over any given single lap than their teammates but the team mate won the WDC and they didn't.

#15626 cheapracer

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 16:09

Back in 2000-2001 when Barrichello had a lot more technical issues than Schumacher there was NEVER a suspect of this not being true.

Now when Schumacher has all the bad luck with technical issues, its always a lie / alibi.
..just ridiculous. :drunk:


There's been countless drivers who car has constantly failed over a season while their team mate seemed to have the opposite result, Wiki is actually quite good for referencing that.

'86 is a sample, McLaren; Prost won the WDC while Keke struggled to finish a race and theres a difference at Lotus as well ...

http://en.wikipedia....final_standings


Edited by cheapracer, 21 November 2011 - 16:37.


#15627 SlateGray

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:07

Er, no; points are the true measure in this sport, and Michael has 92% of his team mate. We all know his qualifying has been poor, but in at least half the races he's been as good or better than Rosberg. Is he the same as 10 years ago? No. Is he worthy of his seat? Yes; unless you wish to sack half the grid.


In the interest of accuracy let us review

Nico Rosberg:
WDC points earned as Michael Schumacher’s teammate 225
Michael Schumacher:
WDC points earned as Nico Rosberg’s teammate 148

Difference 77 points

% difference:
Schumacher earns points at a rate 65.77% percent of the rate Rosberg earns points.

Or looking at the numbers a different way

Rosberg racks up points at a rate 1.52 times that of Schumacher.

Rosberg is more then 50% better then Schumacher at collecting WDC points which, as you say, is all that matters. But I beg to differ I want to talk pure speed as well. Rosberg is generally 0.5 seconds per lap faster then Schumacher in qualifying.

So Rosberg is 1.5 times better racer and is 0.5 sec average per lap quicker in the Q
That would put Schumacher deep into pay driver country. Now if you stop to think about it that is all Schumacher is currently doing at MB. A really a big name that can bring money. If we look to the record it is very clear that Schumacher has only money to offer at this point, performance such that is was is now gone and not likely to return. otoh Rosberg is young and has tones of potential

Don’t call me names and don’t cry to the mods just accept that Schumacher is no where near as good as some people think he is. The numbers don’t lie.

OK start the excuses coming. :cool:

#15628 Richardc

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:18

Nobody here apart from you is talking about 2010 - that has been covered.

In 2011, they are a tiny amount apart in points. This is including the DNFs for schumacher out of his hands (essentially were in the teams hands if you want to be picky about who's helping the team). If they were equal in non-fault DNFs, it is very safe to say he would be ahead in points. Even as it is, he is basically matching his 26 year old 'WDC potential' team mate, and you think that just any old pay driver would be doing that?





#15629 Dolph

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:32

Nobody here apart from you is talking about 2010 - that has been covered.

In 2011, they are a tiny amount apart in points. This is including the DNFs for schumacher out of his hands (essentially were in the teams hands if you want to be picky about who's helping the team). If they were equal in non-fault DNFs, it is very safe to say he would be ahead in points. Even as it is, he is basically matching his 26 year old 'WDC potential' team mate, and you think that just any old pay driver would be doing that?


What I find amazing is that even though MS has done so many stupid mistakes this season he is still that close to Rosberg. Bet he is gonna beat Rosberg by a mile next year.

#15630 SlateGray

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:38

Nobody here apart from you is talking about 2010 - that has been covered.

In 2011, they are a tiny amount apart in points. This is including the DNFs for schumacher out of his hands (essentially were in the teams hands if you want to be picky about who's helping the team). If they were equal in non-fault DNFs, it is very safe to say he would be ahead in points. Even as it is, he is basically matching his 26 year old 'WDC potential' team mate, and you think that just any old pay driver would be doing that?


Always best to look at the entire picture. Why ignore 1/2 of the data set?

If you are trying to kid yourself OK, but if you want to look at the record I suggest you look at the record for the entire time they have been teammates. Picking bits and parts can allow for almost any ridiculous conclusion.

#15631 Math89

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:38

Accept that people are a fan of Schumacher and just don't really care about statistics and numbers and facts. Being a fan is hoping for the best and keep supporting the person you like even if it's not going good. It's that simple really.

It's like being a loyal supporter for a soccerteam. One day a guy comes to you with bad news 'Mate, I'm sorry but I looked up some statistics and facts and well... That team just isn't that good and you should accept that' That would sure take the fun out of being a fan.

I don't follow the other driver Y vs driver X threads but I can't really imagine that there is so much debate and even hostility in the Button vs Hamilton thread when one driver beats the other.


On topic, Allthough I hope he can beat Nico in points I don't think that he will. He has to be around position 4-6 and hope Nico ends outside the points or takes only one or two points.

#15632 Raelene

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:50

Looks to me like Michael is having lots of fun, racing with class and dignity and sportsmanship and respect for his fellow drivers (well except Rubens ;).
I would think Michael will carry on racing for many many years to come snatching up even more laurels to add to his already burgeoning collection. Perhaps like Paul Newman he will race well into his seventies. I wish I could be as frustrated as Michael

#15633 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:11

Accept that people are a fan of Schumacher and just don't really care about statistics and numbers and facts. Being a fan is hoping for the best and keep supporting the person you like even if it's not going good. It's that simple really.

It's like being a loyal supporter for a soccerteam. One day a guy comes to you with bad news 'Mate, I'm sorry but I looked up some statistics and facts and well... That team just isn't that good and you should accept that' That would sure take the fun out of being a fan.

I don't follow the other driver Y vs driver X threads but I can't really imagine that there is so much debate and even hostility in the Button vs Hamilton thread when one driver beats the other.

:up:

#15634 Group B

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:14

Always best to look at the entire picture. Why ignore 1/2 of the data set?

If you are trying to kid yourself OK, but if you want to look at the record I suggest you look at the record for the entire time they have been teammates. Picking bits and parts can allow for almost any ridiculous conclusion.

Hardly. This is an unuasal circumstance, where one driver was returning after 3 years out; it was inevitable the Nico would have an advantage in year one.

#15635 as65p

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:39

Accept that people are a fan of Schumacher and just don't really care about statistics and numbers and facts.


Interesting. Usually numbers are very dear to MS fans, numbers like 7 or 91...  ;)

I don't follow the other driver Y vs driver X threads but I can't really imagine that there is so much debate and even hostility in the Button vs Hamilton thread when one driver beats the other.


You really don't follow those other threads, apparently.

#15636 Schumacher7

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 23:38

Interesting. Usually numbers are very dear to MS fans, numbers like 7 or 91...;)



You really don't follow those other threads, apparently.

That knife cuts both ways, you say we only use numbers when it suits us yet you do exactly the same, fact is we have very different agendas and as such we all manipulate the facts and figures. I could come in here screaming 7-0 SCHUMACHER!!!!!!!!!! But what's the point? You're not going to change your opinion and neither is SlateGray and you need to realise neither are we. What are you hoping to achieve coming into the thread and playing down his achievements and saying he's been getting thrashed by Rosberg? Nobody is going to change their opinion so why bother? I'll blindly support Schumacher until he's 81 in the vain hope he'll scrape a lucky podium because I'm a FAN, posting statistics showing him doing "badly" isn't going to make me suddenly think "OH SNAP, HE'S SHIT!!!!1!" we don't just support somebody because they're winning at the minute and stop supporting others because they're having a hard time of it. Do you go onto a Shrewsbury Football Club forum posting stats demonstrating their teams poor performances and lack of real success? No because it would make no difference, they're not gonna go out and buy a Barcelona shirt just so they can say their team's the best, when you support someone/something that aren't performing at the top of their sport you look forward to them achieving small goals and celebrate them as much as a Champions League win because you're a fan.

Edited by Schumacher7, 21 November 2011 - 23:39.


#15637 as65p

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 23:44

That knife cuts both ways, you say we only use numbers when it suits us yet you do exactly the same, fact is we have very different agendas and as such we all manipulate the facts and figures. I could come in here screaming 7-0 SCHUMACHER!!!!!!!!!! But what's the point? You're not going to change your opinion and neither is SlateGray and you need to realise neither are we. What are you hoping to achieve coming into the thread and playing down his achievements and saying he's been getting thrashed by Rosberg? Nobody is going to change their opinion so why bother? I'll blindly support Schumacher until he's 81 in the vain hope he'll scrape a lucky podium because I'm a FAN, posting statistics showing him doing "badly" isn't going to make me suddenly think "OH SNAP, HE'S SHIT!!!!1!" we don't just support somebody because they're winning at the minute and stop supporting others because they're having a hard time of it. Do you go onto a Shrewsbury Football Club forum posting stats demonstrating their teams poor performances and lack of real success? No because it would make no difference, they're not gonna go out and buy a Barcelona shirt just so they can say their team's the best, when you support someone/something that aren't performing at the top of their sport you look forward to them achieving small goals and celebrate them as much as a Champions League win because you're a fan.


I think the point is that this thread is to discuss Schumacher after his comeback, not before. And in that regard, 2010/11 is relevant while the distant past isn't. Simple as that.

As for the fan habits, no problem, do as you please.

#15638 Raelene

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 00:20

I think the point is that this thread is to discuss Schumacher after his comeback, not before. And in that regard, 2010/11 is relevant while the distant past isn't. Simple as that.

As for the fan habits, no problem, do as you please.



No, read the opening post - the aim of this thread was to discuss Michael Schumacher - no one mentioned a year. Simple as that.

#15639 genespleen

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 00:43

I think the point is that this thread is to discuss Schumacher after his comeback, not before. And in that regard, 2010/11 is relevant while the distant past isn't. Simple as that.

As for the fan habits, no problem, do as you please.


This what happens when people confuse their emotional desires with rational thought. As has been pointed out, see post #1 in this long-running thread. A rational approach will show what is actually "simple as that."

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#15640 ivand911

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:37

From another forum:
Posted Image

Posted Image

There could be rain in Brazil.

Edited by ivand911, 22 November 2011 - 10:54.


#15641 Group B

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 10:50

I think the point is that this thread is to discuss Schumacher after his comeback, not before. And in that regard, 2010/11 is relevant while the distant past isn't. Simple as that.

As for the fan habits, no problem, do as you please.

It is in no way as simple as that. You can't discuss a given subject in total isolation if there are highly relevant reference points, comparisons and changes that are intrinsic to that subject.

#15642 Hacklerf

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:17

I have to say, i am impressed with Michael's season. I think he has driven well, moved on to another level from last year and for me has had the upper hand on Nico, the points would show this if not for the early DNF's

#15643 BRK

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 17:16

Michael's had 5 DNFs this season, more than anyone else in the top ten, Buemi all the way back in 15th has as many. Wasted points.

#15644 LiJu914

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:17

There could be rain in Brazil.


Interestingly MS never had a good brazil-race (by his own standards) when it rained:

93: 4th
96: 3rd (lapped by Hill)
2001: 2nd behind a much faster Coulthard
2003: DNF (spun off)



#15645 Disgrace

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 19:19

That's an interesting statistic I wasn't aware of, thanks for sharing.

#15646 ivand911

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 20:06

Pass Masters - overtaking in 2011 analysed
http://www.formula1....1/11/12816.html

#15647 zelpre

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 20:25

Interestingly MS never had a good brazil-race (by his own standards) when it rained:

93: 4th
96: 3rd (lapped by Hill)
2001: 2nd behind a much faster Coulthard
2003: DNF (spun off)


93: 4th? Wasn't he 3rd and lapped by the williams? I remember senna had problems and he was holding a group of about 10 drivers, where michael was right behing him. then on lap 17 senna retired...


But he had an EPIC race in 2006. Race to never forget.

Edited by zelpre, 22 November 2011 - 20:34.


#15648 George Costanza

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 20:48

93: 4th? Wasn't he 3rd and lapped by the williams? I remember senna had problems and he was holding a group of about 10 drivers, where michael was right behing him. then on lap 17 senna retired...


But he had an EPIC race in 2006. Race to never forget.



1993? Ayrton Senna won the GP.

#15649 zelpre

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 21:07

1993? Ayrton Senna won the GP.


then it was 92 :D

#15650 rolf123

rolf123
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 21:12

Pass Masters - overtaking in 2011 analysed
http://www.formula1....1/11/12816.html


Wow, Schumi is right up there!

2nd highest overtaker 2011 to date
Best starter (positions gained in first sector of race)
Most positions gained on 1st lap
6th most overtakes after lap one


Of course these stats favour midfield runners but still pretty good!

I wonder why Merc release these stats when they make Rosberg look crap!