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#15651 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 01:12

Wow, Schumi is right up there!

2nd highest overtaker 2011 to date
Best starter (positions gained in first sector of race)
Most positions gained on 1st lap
6th most overtakes after lap one


Of course these stats favour midfield runners but still pretty good!

I wonder why Merc release these stats when they make Rosberg look crap!

I shall remaind you that for some posters Michael is taking crap for past two years. Little shine on the side, especially if it is a historical fact may induce some accuraccy into dicussion. Thank you Mercedes for setting the record straight.

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#15652 puxanando

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:38

:cat: Then Vettel is bad, because he is not signed like a "past-master?

#15653 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:50

:cat: Then Vettel is bad, because he is not signed like a "past-master?


Now I am curious, what exactly do you want to say?


#15654 puxanando

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:53

Now I am curious, what exactly do you want to say?


I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud, because it means that you start many places behind & so you have to pass.......... ;)


#15655 LiJu914

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:05

I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud..


Fernando would´ve been proud to be the "pass-master" on Oct 14th 2010. :smoking:  ;)

Edited by LiJu914, 23 November 2011 - 11:11.


#15656 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:10

I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud, because it means that you start many places behind & so you have to pass..........;)

oh. Ferstehen. Are you in love with Alonso?


#15657 Boing 2

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:18

Wow, Schumi is right up there!


Yeah, he's nearly as good as Sebastian Buemi!


I wonder why Merc release these stats when they make Rosberg look crap!


Guess they have to do something to balance these.... :p

2010
QUAL NR 15 - 4 MS
RACE NR 142 - 72 MS

2011
QUAL NR 15 - 3 MS
RACE NR 83 - 76 MS

#15658 puxanando

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:22

oh. Ferstehen. Are you in love with Alonso?


:smoking: NO, I am in love with LIFE! **verstehst du?


Yeah, he's nearly as good as Sebastian Buemi!


:rotfl:


#15659 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:10

:cat: Then Vettel is bad, because he is not signed like a "past-master?

Had you taken time to read whole article, than you might save yourself this rather unnecessary remark. Vettel's case is explained within. Now go, and do your own research.

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#15660 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:15

I think the point is that this thread is to discuss Schumacher after his comeback, not before. And in that regard, 2010/11 is relevant while the distant past isn't. Simple as that.

As for the fan habits, no problem, do as you please.

Actualy no, it was not my intention. Sorry, but I like to look over whole his career in F1, simply because it is part of who he is. If we cut it off, than we have to regard him as a rookie, and that would be rather silly.

Edited by Sakae, 23 November 2011 - 12:15.


#15661 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:32

Vettel is pass-master ,he is already passing a lot of champions. In titles race.

#15662 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 13:10

Always best to look at the entire picture. Why ignore 1/2 of the data set?

If you are trying to kid yourself OK, but if you want to look at the record I suggest you look at the record for the entire time they have been teammates. Picking bits and parts can allow for almost any ridiculous conclusion.

Picking parts to spit on a driver on a forum and ignoring the other half of the dataset can allow for almost any ridiclous conclusion too :drunk:

The only reason you're not on my ignore list is because your efforts to make someone look bad with these so-called 'facts', they are just too darn funny :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud, because it means that you start many places behind & so you have to pass..........;)

Is that the real reason why the Toro Rosso-drivers are high up in that list? :D Your logic, it's a flaw.

Edited by Jejking, 23 November 2011 - 13:12.


#15663 Kubiccia

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 13:36

I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud, because it means that you start many places behind & so you have to pass..........;)

Too bad Nico can't pass when he's behind slower cars.

#15664 Afterburner

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 15:38

Yeah, he's nearly as good as Sebastian Buemi!

Nice. :rotfl:

#15665 cheapracer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 15:54

I think that being "Pass-master" is nothing to feel proud, because it means that you start many places behind & so you have to pass..........;)


Yup. Starting to be drawn towards a recent post that basically said there's smart MS fans here and, well, not so smart ones.

His passing rate is better than Nico's simply because he didn't qualify as well, as often - nothing to be proud of in the least. In fact you have to say damn lucky he is good at passing/starting or this year would be rather embarrassing.


#15666 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:11

If MS didn't have so many DNF ,his passing statistic would be even better. He started back, he have to overtake and he did it. What is the big deal?

#15667 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:23

If MS didn't have so many DNF ,his passing statistic would be even better. He started back, he have to overtake and he did it. What is the big deal?

The point is that the overtaking figures highlight a weakness in his performances elsewhere and ultimately are nothing to feel hugely proud of.

#15668 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:30

If MS didn't have so many DNF ,his passing statistic would be even better. He started back, he have to overtake and he did it. What is the big deal?

Did you notice that in Vettel's case good performance is associated almost exclusively with a car by local "experts", yet in Schumacher's case it is his performance that is being questioned, and not a car; there is nothing much to discuss then, is there?

Edited by Sakae, 23 November 2011 - 16:31.


#15669 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:40

Yup. Starting to be drawn towards a recent post that basically said there's smart MS fans here and, well, not so smart ones.

His passing rate is better than Nico's simply because he didn't qualify as well, as often - nothing to be proud of in the least. In fact you have to say damn lucky he is good at passing/starting or this year would be rather embarrassing.


Agree!
Now consider if the MB was a front row car in the hands of Rosberg. Where would Schumacher be if his gap to Rosberg in qualifying was the standard amount demonstrated these past two seasons? A quick scan of the past few races shows that a 0.5 sec per lap gap from the pole would have Schumacher's car starting in P5 or P6. Not good, in fact very bad. If Schumacher cannot up his game to be on the same level in qualifying as Rosberg then he is not suitable to pilot a front row car, this is a fact. I think Schumacher’s fans should stop blaming the car cuz if it was any better then it is now Schumacher would be looking worse relative to Rosberg not better.

Edited by SlateGray, 23 November 2011 - 16:44.


#15670 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:41

The point is that the overtaking figures highlight a weakness in his performances elsewhere and ultimately are nothing to feel hugely proud of.


Yeah, good thing we can make only one conclusion from stats. :rolleyes:

It's not like it could be a combination of his poor quali records and his skill. It's Schumacher so it must be only his quali form.

It's not like Buemi has an average starting position of 14.61 and Michael 10.33. Or that Michael started 11 times in the top 10, 3 times 11th, once 12th, 13th and 24th.

Please don't let any analyzing stand in a way of drawing a conclusion based on some stats.

#15671 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:47

The point is that the overtaking figures highlight a weakness in his performances elsewhere and ultimately are nothing to feel hugely proud of.

But, he easily resolve that problem in first lap usually. Still his passes are something to be proud of. Because of them he is 8th in WDC and 7 points behind his team-mate(who don't have weakness). Without passes he could be way back. And him being behind was not always because of his Qualifying. Some times it was because of the team, other drivers and his own faults.
Another question is how big role play his team faults or great decisions in his performance. We will never know. Car is maybe 70% responsible for the final result, and there are many other people working on this car. And this is not only about him, it is for all other drivers. Which side of the garage is better. In the end we usually praise only the driver. But, if driver perform badly , we only blame the driver for it. This is why they say WE, they meant their racing team, not the whole team.

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 17:29.


#15672 Group B

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:57

But, he easily resolve that problem in first lap usually.

Quite. For all the whining about MS' (admitedly poor) qualifying, the reality is that he's usually right next to Nico by the end of lap one.

#15673 salamin

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:07

The point is that the overtaking figures highlight a weakness in his performances elsewhere and ultimately are nothing to feel hugely proud of.


It still means that he's a good overtaker, OTOH look at NR's overtaking moves in cases he started outside the top 10 (for example suzuka being stuck behind backmarkers for laps)

#15674 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:15

Quite. For all the whining about MS' (admitedly poor) qualifying, the reality is that he's usually right next to Nico by the end of lap one.


Yes that works now when there are no cars between them on the grid. What if the MB was a front row car with Rosberg placing it P1 or P2, that would make Schumacher P5 or P6 and the cars in between would be top cars driven by the likes of Button, Hamilton, Alonso… Do you still think Schumacher would be “right next to Nico” at the end of lap 1, or would Schumacher be desperately trying to fend off the ever improving Force India? Face it Schumacher is not quick enough and the numbers say as much.



#15675 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:17

No, SlateGray it will not put him in P5 or P6. This is BS. SlateGray, 0,5 sec from the pole will give you 3,83 starting position(for the season). Let say P4. It is not P5 or P6. MS with his great start and great passings will be right behind his team mate very quickly, especially if he have better race pace as we saw in many races this year. Risk of crashes is less at the front. This is if we say that with better car they will perform like in MGP car. But, this is hardly the case, any other car can shift the advantage between them. With car more suitable for Nico or Michael natural driving style, this can put him in advantage. So, I don't think that we can make assumptions you make. That in better car they will perform like in MGP car. I believe that in every other car they will perform differently. Like in W01 last year and w02 this year. MS is equal to Nico this year. And W02 also have role here. Also if they have front running car, strategy will be very different. Can somebody tell me, how many times in Q3 ,MS have real go for best result? Or he just save his tyres and make fake Q3. From 11 Q3 he have more fake Q3 than real ones.

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 17:25.


#15676 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:26

Quite. For all the whining about MS' (admitedly poor) qualifying, the reality is that he's usually right next to Nico by the end of lap one.

In quali I think it's not only him, but there are some other factors involved which are adversely affecting his position, altghough admittedly I do not know what they are. Results are not attributable solely to his age, I think.

#15677 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:38

Slate also neglects to consider the fact that the MERC is known to be open to a "quali" set-up or a "race" set-up.

We have debated who is likely to have each choice. But it doesn't reflect Slate's agenda to admit that is the case.

If the MERC was much quicker, by definition it's operating window is likely to be far wider and probably allow a better balance for both Q & R.

Therefore it's not fair to come in with wild ass theories yet assume that only the things we want to value remain the same. That's clearly displaying an agenda of hate.

We can consider that NR would be 0.3 quicker - it's only 0.8-1.0 if you take the last race as your barometer, but we're not in the business of doing that unless you miraculously appear whenever MS is "outclassed"- based upon the past 2 seasons, but we have no idea if that status quo would be repeated once the MERC was quicker and better balanced. We could also consider that based upon race performances this season, MS would be showing NR the way home more often than not, but again, that's not got any real substance once you change the parameters to suit.

#15678 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:40

Abu Dhabi Grand Prix: Qualifying results

MS 100.662
NR 099.773
__________
0.889 difference

Pole
98.431 + .0.889 = 99.32

P5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 99.058
P6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 99.695

So if Rosberg was on pole Schumacher would be starting P6, fact!

This may differ from race to race slightly but regardless Schumacher would be lagging way way back with a top car.
Schumacher would not be jumping the likes of Alonso Button, Vettel, Hamilton, off the start on a consistent basis.
Facts proved by the numbers say that Schumacher is just to slow to be in F1. :(

#15679 cheapracer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:45

The point is that the overtaking figures highlight a weakness in his performances elsewhere and ultimately are nothing to feel hugely proud of.


And it's as simple as that.

Luck has also been on his side, gaps have been known to close on you as well as other circumstance totally out of your control at the first corner and MS has missed a few, Monza and Spa come immediately to mind - and that has nothing at all to do with skill.


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#15680 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:46

Yes that works now when there are no cars between them on the grid. What if the MB was a front row car with Rosberg placing it P1 or P2, that would make Schumacher P5 or P6 and the cars in between would be top cars driven by the likes of Button, Hamilton, Alonso… Do you still think Schumacher would be “right next to Nico” at the end of lap 1, or would Schumacher be desperately trying to fend off the ever improving Force India? Face it Schumacher is not quick enough and the numbers say as much.

So you think with the current toppers in the topteams Schumacher wouldn't stand a chance and it's all down to age? The first laps in 2010 and 2011 tend to prove Schumacher pretty much always picks the right line to outsmart other drivers, whether it's Rosberg (last race) or Button (Turkey 2010) or even almost Hamilton (Turkey 2011). Do I need to go on?

You ignoring my last post proves your agenda mate. Don't try to convince anybody here, it's all wasted joules. Instead of, try to respect someone's opinion ;)

Edited by Jejking, 23 November 2011 - 17:48.


#15681 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:49

Abu Dhabi Grand Prix: Qualifying results

MS 100.662
NR 099.773
__________
0.889 difference

Pole
98.431 + .0.889 = 99.32

P5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 99.058
P6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 99.695

So if Rosberg was on pole Schumacher would be starting P6, fact!

This may differ from race to race slightly but regardless Schumacher would be lagging way way back with a top car.
Schumacher would not be jumping the likes of Alonso Button, Vettel, Hamilton, off the start on a consistent basis.
Facts proved by the numbers say that Schumacher is just to slow to be in F1. :(

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It was 0,5 sec, now it is 0,889 sec? What next? In Australia 0,889 will put him P4, fact. In China and Monaco too. P3 in Spain. Many facts disprove you.
You are arranging facts to suit you? :p
Don't be sad, it is only against you. You will fool nobody.

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 17:56.


#15682 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:52

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It was 0,5 sec, now it is 0,889 sec? What next? In Australia 0,889 will put him P4, fact. In China too.
You are arranging facts to suit you? :p
Don't be angry, it is only against you. You will fool nobody.


Please point out any error(s) in the numbers I posted!

#15683 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:52

So people still ignore facts when judging Michael's overtaking ability? Great.

Btw, the difference in quali until now between Michael and Nico is +0.327s.

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 November 2011 - 17:53.


#15684 BRK

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:55

Who cares. The point is that a 42-year old Schumacher is still sharp as a razor, he's been making lightning quick starts and, as the passing stats would indicate, has adapted well to the Playstation era of DRS\KERS assisted passing, unlike some of the much younger drivers around him. He's just 7 points (under the new system) behind his teammate despite having had three more DNFs. Pretty impressive turnaround from last season, I'd say, could get even better next season.

#15685 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:58

As if by magic, right after my post containing this sentence - We can consider that NR would be 0.3 quicker - it's only 0.8-1.0 if you take the last race as your barometer, but we're not in the business of doing that unless you miraculously appear whenever MS is "outclassed"-

Up steps Slate to confirm he is in fact, using that sole race as a barometer.

I think the case is closed Slate, you're not being objective at all, but you're succeeding in being extremely objectionable. It's as if you want the MODS to delete threads, posts & ban posters.

You vanish every single time MS gets close, let alone comes out on top, yet appear once he's been "dominated", demanding his retirement and casting aspersions over not only his return, but any of his achievements.

It's tiresome, inaccurate and quite insulting that you continue to peddle such one-sided nonsense. At least present a fair & balanced option, by all means say "here's the avg gap over the 2 seasons, and this is why I think if & when MERC get a better car, NR will destroy MS even more than I believe he is already".

Encourage debate, not hate. Stop the flamebaiting and engage fairly, unless you know your argument is limp. In which case, it explains a lot!

#15686 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 17:59

Yeah, good thing we can make only one conclusion from stats. :rolleyes:

It's not like it could be a combination of his poor quali records and his skill. It's Schumacher so it must be only his quali form.

It's not like Buemi has an average starting position of 14.61 and Michael 10.33. Or that Michael started 11 times in the top 10, 3 times 11th, once 12th, 13th and 24th.

Please don't let any analyzing stand in a way of drawing a conclusion based on some stats.

But it's OK to draw the simple conclusion that he's good at overtaking? I've drawn the conclusion that over the season Rosberg and Schumacher have been about equal, but that they've got there via different routes. This isn't a new and sudden conclusion for today, it's been posted elsewhere recently and overall I think he's done pretty well considering what he's been working with. However, from the point of view of this thread, it is false to say that he is great at overtaking without also considering why he was in a position to make those moves. It might be a little bittersweet to look at it from that perspective but taking his performances in isolation, as this thread is trying to do, means looking at the good and bad. I have done this but the poster I responded to hadn't.

#15687 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:02

Please point out any error(s) in the numbers I posted!

Your error(deliberately) is that you point one fact(race) and you make general conclusions for whole season. Read my post again, I put another races too. Is it the difference 0,327sec, this will make SG job very hard?

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 18:03.


#15688 cheapracer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:03

So people still ignore facts when judging Michael's overtaking ability? Great.


No some are just seeing the complete picture.

I'm sure MS would agree and I didn't look at the list but I'm sure Vettle is at the other end of it.



#15689 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:03

But it's OK to draw the simple conclusion that he's good at overtaking? I've drawn the conclusion that over the season Rosberg and Schumacher have been about equal, but that they've got there via different routes. This isn't a new and sudden conclusion for today, it's been posted elsewhere recently and overall I think he's done pretty well considering what he's been working with. However, from the point of view of this thread, it is false to say that he is great at overtaking without also considering why he was in a position to make those moves. It might be a little bittersweet to look at it from that perspective but taking his performances in isolation, as this thread is trying to do, means looking at the good and bad. I have done this but the poster I responded to hadn't.



So if that guy is wrong why do you have to present a wrong pov too?

He had some "issues" with overtaking (less) and defending (more) that resulted in a world record of FW's used but the stats do show that he has skills in starts and overtaking.

No some are just seeing the complete picture.

I'm sure MS would agree and I didn't look at the list but I'm sure Vettle is at the other end of it.



Sorry but saying that he has those stats only because he as a bad start position is wrong. And it is proved by his quali record which isn't that bad as some have suggested.

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 November 2011 - 18:05.


#15690 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:04

To cheer up the mood in this heavily derailing thread, I found some good footage onboard of Button, his start at Turkey 2010.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

We all know the rear viewing camera on Schumachers car with the smoking brakes and Button flying by but this footage I didn't know. He took on the fight pretty hard before turn eight, heartstopping moment at turn-in! :eek:

Edited by Jejking, 23 November 2011 - 18:05.


#15691 as65p

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:10

Slate also neglects to consider the fact that the MERC is known to be open to a "quali" set-up or a "race" set-up.


Fact, eh? :lol: More like a made up excuse from certain fans.

BTW, if we assume for a moment that's true and the MGP has that unique characteristic, Rosberg is doing a mega job of staying close to and sometimes even being faster than MS in the races, all with his "qualy only" setup. :drunk:

#15692 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:10

Italy Grand Prix: Qualifying results

MS 01:23.777
NR 01:24.477
__________
0.7 difference

Pole
01:22.275 + 0.7 = 1:22.975

P5 Webber 01:22.972
P6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 01:23.188

So if MS was on pole Nico would be starting P6, fact!

BTW, if we assume for a moment that's true and the MGP has that unique characteristic, Rosberg is doing a mega job of staying close to and sometimes even being faster than MS in the races, all with his "qualy only" setup. :drunk:

Can you tell us what lap time difference we can expect from race and qualy set up? Or from MS and Nico set up, don't matter what this means? I guess you know what set ups they use. You can share with us. :wave:

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 18:15.


#15693 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:14

Fact, eh? :lol: More like a made up excuse from certain fans.

BTW, if we assume for a moment that's true and the MGP has that unique characteristic, Rosberg is doing a mega job of staying close to and sometimes even being faster than MS in the races, all with his "qualy only" setup. :drunk:

Noooooope (Chuck Testa), fact. With all these Friday and Saturday reports it became pretty obvious that the car indeed has that unique characteristic of behaving well and behaving totally different after a couple of small changes. Try again buddy.

#15694 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:17

Italy Grand Prix: Qualifying results

MS 01:23.777
NR 01:24.477
__________
0.7 difference

Pole
01:22.275 + 0.7 = 1:22.975

P5 Webber 01:22.972
P6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 01:23.188

So if MS was on pole Nico would be starting P6, fact!

There is an exception to every rule :p
I will do the entire season for 2010 and 2011 and we will see the total picture. It may take some time so ...be patient. I don't think you will like the results.

#15695 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:19

So if that guy is wrong why do you have to present a wrong pov too?

He had some "issues" with overtaking (less) and defending (more) that resulted in a world record of FW's used but the stats do show that he has skills in starts and overtaking.

No I'm right and you're wrong. This is fun. Your turn.

Look at Schumachers performances in the round. Forget the Buemi thing and the P3/P4/P5 relative starting position thing because that's so variable it's not worth considering. Start at the begining and tell me that having a great overtaking stat but a better finishing result that isn't as good as your teammate is a good thing. It simply isn't. I don't know what his issues are and speculating about what they might be isn't my game. I agree that Slategrays figures don't tell the full story and that he's presented a worst case scenario with the India figures, but the basic point is nevertheless valid that he keeps starting behind his teammate and has to take risks to get him up level. In fact it's not hugely different from the Hamilton v Button performance this year in that regard.

Schumacher has improved a lot since last year and I hope that he improves further next year, also that the tech team come up with a car capable of competing for podiums and wins. But surely we can talk about where that improvement might be found without getting all angry and upset?

#15696 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:19

There is an exception to every rule :p
I will do the entire season for 2010 and 2011 and we will see the total picture. It may take some time so ...be patient. I don't think you will like the results.


0.28 last year
0.327 this year

Times from the last part of qualifying in which both appeared.

No I'm right and you're wrong. This is fun. Your turn.

Look at Schumachers performances in the round. Forget the Buemi thing and the P3/P4/P5 relative starting position thing because that's so variable it's not worth considering. Start at the begining and tell me that having a great overtaking stat but a better finishing result that isn't as good as your teammate is a good thing. It simply isn't. I don't know what his issues are and speculating about what they might be isn't my game. I agree that Slategrays figures don't tell the full story and that he's presented a worst case scenario with the India figures, but the basic point is nevertheless valid that he keeps starting behind his teammate and has to take risks to get him up level. In fact it's not hugely different from the Hamilton v Button performance this year in that regard.

Schumacher has improved a lot since last year and I hope that he improves further next year, also that the tech team come up with a car capable of competing for podiums and wins. But surely we can talk about where that improvement might be found without getting all angry and upset?



But i never ignored the situation that provided those stats (i.e. his worse quali). But the stats do show that his quali positions aren't as bad as they were said to be. He wasn't always around slower cars to pretend that his starts and overtakes are only due to him having a faster car.

And his finishing positions are pretty respectable compared to his teammate. Again : best result for Merc, still better top 6 finishes. Just that Nico is more constant.

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 November 2011 - 18:27.


#15697 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:21

There is an exception to every rule :p
I will do the entire season for 2010 and 2011 and we will see the total picture. It may take some time so ...be patient. I don't think you will like the results.

That would be a lot more honest than picking one race out of 19.

#15698 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:21

There is an exception to every rule :p
I will do the entire season for 2010 and 2011 and we will see the total picture. It may take some time so ...be patient. I don't think you will like the results.

Do them separately. :rotfl:

#15699 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:25

Fact, eh? :lol: More like a made up excuse from certain fans.

BTW, if we assume for a moment that's true and the MGP has that unique characteristic, Rosberg is doing a mega job of staying close to and sometimes even being faster than MS in the races, all with his "qualy only" setup. :drunk:

Nice try, but a fail none-the-less.

How about considering that a race set-up may just be a simple case of a touch more wing, saving the Pirellis for maybe 1 or 2 more laps, enabling better & more flexible race strategy?
Too complex for you? There's plenty of other options, but I guess when you have an agenda like yours, it's easier to rubbish something that appears patently clear.

Nobody has provided anything to show that the Ross Brawn quote about the - touched upon many times in this thread - is paper talk. The only people who seem to want to view it as BS are also those that vanish at certain times throughout the season.


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#15700 valachus

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:25

To cheer up the mood in this heavily derailing thread, I found some good footage onboard of Button, his start at Turkey 2010.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

We all know the rear viewing camera on Schumachers car with the smoking brakes and Button flying by but this footage I didn't know. He took on the fight pretty hard before turn eight, heartstopping moment at turn-in! :eek:


That W01 handled like a pig on ice, by the look of it.