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#15701 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:26

Do them separately. :rotfl:

Why?

Diablobb81 has done that above and the two year sample size should even things out even further. The only thing it won't do is illustrate the improvement. Your mission, should you chosoe to accept it, is to put together a graph of their qualifying time difference, maybe expressed as a percentage of pole time, and see whether the lines converge over each year or the total period. That should measure the improvment.

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#15702 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:28

That W01 handled like a pig on ice, by the look of it.

It is true ,but it is still better than W02 comparing to the top3 cars.

Why?

Because for me ,two years are separate. To see the improvement we only need to look at the points table. 142:72 against 83:76. Quite an improvement with worst car comparing to the top 3 cars. MS I mean. Nico is going backwards from 2010. P8 instead of P9 for MS. I don't need more proofs.
Maybe I am easily impressed by MS. Guilty, but that's me. :p

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 18:37.


#15703 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:29

I hate math so i didn't make them.F1 fanatic did them. :p


Here is a quali graph for 2011 between teammates :

http://www.f1fanatic...011-form-guide/

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 November 2011 - 18:31.


#15704 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:31

Why?

Diablobb81 has done that above and the two year sample size should even things out even further. The only thing it won't do is illustrate the improvement. Your mission, should you chosoe to accept it, is to put together a graph of their qualifying time difference, maybe expressed as a percentage of pole time, and see whether the lines converge over each year or the total period. That should measure the improvment.

You sure as hell have a lot of confidence in well-done, well-executed, objective calculations done by the hand of a guy who never ever let a single positive word flow out of his keyboard in any Schumacher-like thread! I admire your optimism mate but I have my doubts about the end result. Up to him to prove me wrong.

Edited by Jejking, 23 November 2011 - 18:31.


#15705 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:35

Why?

Diablobb81 has done that above and the two year sample size should even things out even further. The only thing it won't do is illustrate the improvement. Your mission, should you chosoe to accept it, is to put together a graph of their qualifying time difference, maybe expressed as a percentage of pole time, and see whether the lines converge over each year or the total period. That should measure the improvment.

You'd do them separately so that you can isolate data from 2010 & 2011. Personally, I thought the gap this year in Q is bigger than last year. Could that be explained by the car characteristics, or DRS/KERS issues?

Possibly..... Possibly not. But I think it was a lot more straight-forward in 2010, there certainly wasn't a quote from Ross Brawn saying the car can really only be optimized for the Q or R, but not really both.

Regardless, I think the argument is not only centered around Q pace is it? JB is slower than LH in 1 lap pace, (by common consent regardless of what the LH huggers would have you believe) but his race pace & more importantly race 'brain' has shown to be at least up there & at times far superior this season to LH. Are we expected to have the same discussion there in due course? That will be fun....but not for the MODS!

There's simply too many intangibles for a definitive result to this I believe, besides I think there's the basics of the agenda being MS is simply too slow to be in F1, that's got little evidence from 2011 imo.

#15706 spacekid

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:36

Haven't seen any mention of the fact that Schumi's had quite a lot of well documented car glitches in qualifying. I think there was at least one case of unbalanced wheels (or was it two cases?) several incidents of malfunctioning DRS, malfunctioning KERS, and a wheel falling off.

No, Schumi has not generally been as quick as Nico in quali. Thats partly because Nico is usually bloody awesome in qualifying! But to pretend that Schumi is always soooo far behind Nico is dishonest. He isn't quite as quick, but not that far behind. He's put in a lot of good overtaking moves to make up for that, but mostly his high overtaking rate has been to make up for SNAFUs with his Mercedes. And I've enjoyed watching him do it immensley this year. Isn't that the most important thing?

But noooooooooo, we can't just enjoy a racer entertaining us can we? Not when there's some bashing to be done.

Edited by spacekid, 23 November 2011 - 18:38.


#15707 SlateGray

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:36

That would be a lot more honest than picking one race out of 19.

Nothing dishonest in what I posted. "A more complete view" might have been a better way to say that. :)
I will not do any graphing but I will do a race by race analysis to see what the relative grid positions would have been in each race if we assume the faster of the two was on pole. We will see where the slower of the two would have started relative to the pack.

#15708 BRK

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:41

Haven't seen any mention of the fact that Schumi's had quite a lot of well documented car glitches in qualifying. I think there was at least one case of unbalanced wheels (or was it two cases?) several incidents of malfunctioning DRS, malfunctioning KERS, and a wheel falling off.


That's not on today's menu. Strictly a Monday morning special.

#15709 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:48

Nice portion of laughs today. Can't stop smiling. :up:

#15710 as65p

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:51

Nice try, but a fail none-the-less.

How about considering that a race set-up may just be a simple case of a touch more wing, saving the Pirellis for maybe 1 or 2 more laps, enabling better & more flexible race strategy?
Too complex for you? There's plenty of other options, but I guess when you have an agenda like yours, it's easier to rubbish something that appears patently clear.

Nobody has provided anything to show that the Ross Brawn quote about the - touched upon many times in this thread - is paper talk. The only people who seem to want to view it as BS are also those that vanish at certain times throughout the season.


I see the theory is essential for many, that much is true.

Just another little spanner, consider this: Again, we assume it's true. Even with his setup leaning towards qualy, Rosberg can't really qualify higher than 7th, usually. Even with his race setup, MS (provided he doesn't make any obvious driving errors in qualifying) doesn't drop lower than eight or ninth.

With that in mind, how dumb would Ross Brawn have to be to waste Nico Rosbergs race pace with a qualifying setup that get's him just ahead of Schumacher but nowhere else?

Hm? :D


#15711 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 18:57

I see the theory is essential for many, that much is true.

Just another little spanner, consider this: Again, we assume it's true. Even with his setup leaning towards qualy, Rosberg can't really qualify higher than 7th, usually. Even with his race setup, MS (provided he doesn't make any obvious driving errors in qualifying) doesn't drop lower than eight or ninth.

With that in mind, how dumb would Ross Brawn have to be to waste Nico Rosbergs race pace with a qualifying setup that get's him just ahead of Schumacher but nowhere else?

Hm? :D

Nico best Q result 3rd, MS - 5th ? Hm? So, it is not the question if RB is dumb. Team can just try different routes with both drivers, they saw long time ago that they go nowhere. Learning stuff. Knowledge. Testing. I personally tell them many times to test only with car number 8, but they didn't listen to me.

Edited by ivand911, 23 November 2011 - 19:00.


#15712 as65p

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:06

Nico best Q result 3rd, MS - 5th ? Hm? So, it is not the question if RB is dumb. Team can just try different routes with both drivers, they saw long time ago that they go nowhere. Learning stuff. Knowledge. Testing. I personally tell them many times to test only with car number 8, but they didn't listen to me.


You don't understand or simply refuse to, no surprise there.

The point stands, if Brawn allows or tolerates Rosbergs side of the garage going with a setup that compromises race pace while not giving any benefits on sunday, for a whole season, he would be dumb.

Of course he isn't dumb, I hope we can all agree on that one.. Which leaves a far simpler explanation, involving fans and their need to make up excuses for their heros underperfomances.

#15713 Jejking

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:13

You don't understand or simply refuse to, no surprise there.

The point stands, if Brawn allows or tolerates Rosbergs side of the garage going with a setup that compromises race pace while not giving any benefits on sunday, for a whole season, he would be dumb.

Of course he isn't dumb, I hope we can all agree on that one.. Which leaves a far simpler explanation, involving fans and their need to make up excuses for their heros underperfomances.

You don't accept that he doesn't accept your opinion. Does that make him an idiot? Nope.

Every driver is working with the team to find a setup which suits them best in every circumstance. That is qualifying a bit and most part of the race, since the Parc Ferme rules kicked in years ago (2003?). Are you too stupid to understand that? If one thing works better for driver 1 on Saturday, it doesn't automatically mean he does a better job on Sunday. Like Schumacher proved several (not 100% of the) times this season. Nobody here says that Rosberg is only going for one lap glory, that's what you make of it and that's just a sad display to counter stuff with what you accuse us with of what you think we think. Or something. :')

*Worst English sentence EVER :stoned: *

Edited by Jejking, 23 November 2011 - 19:14.


#15714 MightyMoose

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:16

You don't understand or simply refuse to, no surprise there.

The point stands, if Brawn allows or tolerates Rosbergs side of the garage going with a setup that compromises race pace while not giving any benefits on sunday, for a whole season, he would be dumb.

Of course he isn't dumb, I hope we can all agree on that one.. Which leaves a far simpler explanation, involving fans and their need to make up excuses for their heros underperfomances.


So explain why there's a gap of roughly 0.3 secs in Q and in the races MS has often been right up the arse of NR from the opening laps and clearly appeared to have a faster & more consistent race pace.

Go find the Brawn quote Aspy.... read it, and interpret it how you wish. You can even file it away under "RB excuses MS's lack of pace" if you like. The fact remains it's out there and to deny it shows a blinkered attitude. I don't doubt that NR doesn't have an outright Q set-up, but it's fine to believe he has taken the line to optimize top gears etc for maximum DRS benefit whereas MS has gone the other way and tried to make up the shortfall in top speed by other methods.

#15715 Kubiccia

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 19:58

http://uk.eurosport....acher-deal.html

#15716 as65p

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:29

....
I don't doubt that NR doesn't have an outright Q set-up, but it's fine to believe he has taken the line to optimize top gears etc for maximum DRS benefit whereas MS has gone the other way and tried to make up the shortfall in top speed by other methods.


You dodged the question I brought up. Why would Rosberg do that (and the team tolerating it) continually when evidently it doesn't bring any benefits for sunday? Or IOW, if he could improve his race pace by a few tenths by qualifying presumably 1 or 2 grid positions lower, you really think they wouldn't try that?

Sorry, but any day I'll go with the far simpler explanation that MS v2 s*cks a bit over one lap. Which BTW is what happens to most drivers with age, they get relatively slower over one single lap. No big deal really. Especially considering how much slower the cars lap in the races these days, it's perfectly feasible that MS feels way more comfortable on race day, allowing him to exploit his huge experience to lap roughly on Rosbergs level.

#15717 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:29

There is an exception to every rule :p
I will do the entire season for 2010 and 2011 and we will see the total picture. It may take some time so ...be patient. I don't think you will like the results.


That is where I have a completely different opinion. If the car shows potential podiums next year, these two are going to be much closer, and I happen to think that the results will not necessarily suit your taste. But as you say, we will only be able to decide on that next season. It is shoutingly clear that MS sucked on one lap against NR. That is not even worth the debate, though I respect the effort you put into it. Is the difference between them 8-9 tenths? No it isn't. It happened, but not regularly. I do not believe in qual vs race setup either. There is a very very small difference between a specific one-lap setup, and the usual intelligent compromise called for by the qualy system nowadays. I would understand a one-lap setup in the case of Vettel, when this handicap is compensated by shooting off from pole with no traffic to count with for the whole race, but when you know you are at the sharp end of midfield, I don't think they would try screwing about with there car in that way. It is unimaginable. I know it is my mania, but no off-throttle mapping will vastly improve MS's one-lap performance, same goes for some others like Hamilton, I think he is known to have a similar cornering technique.


edit: slate I misread your post.

Edited by Szoelloe, 23 November 2011 - 20:37.


#15718 Afterburner

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:53

Sorry, but any day I'll go with the far simpler explanation that MS v2 s*cks a bit over one lap. Which BTW is what happens to most drivers with age, they get relatively slower over one single lap. No big deal really. Especially considering how much slower the cars lap in the races these days, it's perfectly feasible that MS feels way more comfortable on race day--

I have to say I agree with this, because it's in line with the stance I've maintained throughout the year.

--allowing him to exploit his huge experience to lap roughly on Rosbergs level.

Though we could probably debate this one until the cows come home. ;)

#15719 ivand911

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 20:59

Do we know if MS and Nico share data from their set up? If they don't they can work in completely different routes with the set up, how big can be time difference I don't know. But, if they don't know what other side do , they can't take them into consideration. So, they prepare their car and hope for the best. They will not say, MS is doing this , so I will do this to beat him. Then they don't have way to know what will be better for Saturday and what for Sunday.
If they share data, they can know some stuff or to predict something, but if they don't , they will never know what to do to beat other race team(other driver).
Nico try to do what MS does(in Q) at Monza and we know what happen. I don't think team say to Nico , look MS will qualify in P9 with this time, so you can do this, get P7 and get better race pace than him. So,they don't tolerate anything as65p. I don't think team prefer Nico to MS or other way around. They get there with their teams, prepare and what happen, happens.

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#15720 as65p

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:04

I have to say I agree with this, because it's in line with the stance I've maintained throughout the year.


Nice. :wave:

Though we could probably debate this one until the cows come home.;)


He-he. Sometimes he faster, sometimes they're equal, sometimes he's slower. Roughly on the same level, or not?


#15721 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:05

Do we know if MS and Nico share data from their set up? If they don't they can work in completely different routes with the set up, how big can be time difference I don't know. But, if they don't know what other side do , they can't take them into consideration. So, they prepare their car and hope for the best. They will not say, MS is doing this , so I will do this to beat him. Then they don't have way to know what will be better for Saturday and what for Sunday.
If they share data, they can know some stuff or to predict something, but if they don't , they will never know what to do to beat other race team(other driver).
Nico try to do what MS does(in Q) at Monza and we know what happen. I don't think team say to Nico , look MS will qualify in P9 with this time, so you can do this, get P7 and get better race pace than him. So,they don't tolerate anything as65p. I don't think team prefer Nico to MS or other way around. They get there with their teams, prepare and what happen, happens.


They do, from the beginning.


#15722 LiJu914

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:06

Sometimes this thread is even funnier than the "Hamilton-war zone" :stoned:

Edited by LiJu914, 23 November 2011 - 21:07.


#15723 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 21:10

Sometimes this thread is even funnier than the "Hamilton-war zone" :stoned:

Yep, it is entertaining. :)


#15724 Afterburner

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:14

He-he. Sometimes he faster, sometimes they're equal, sometimes he's slower. Roughly on the same level, or not?

Haha, point.

I get the feeling this thread is going to be veeeerrrry interesting come 2012, lol.

#15725 sharo

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:21

.....................

Schumacher has improved a lot since last year and I hope that he improves further next year, also that the tech team come up with a car capable of competing for podiums and wins. But surely we can talk about where that improvement might be found without getting all angry and upset?

In fact I think his tackling with almost all behind the leaders (and several times with them also) is good for him. Both for recovering his form and getting to know all the new kids on the block with their racing style and they also getting to know him for real. If and when he has a challenger car, I'm sure we'll see a bit different Schumacher.

Still, being older than him, I can't but feel proud with his overtaking results and starts at the age he is now.

#15726 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:28

In fact I think his tackling with almost all behind the leaders (and several times with them also) is good for him. Both for recovering his form and getting to know all the new kids on the block with their racing style and they also getting to know him for real. If and when he has a challenger car, I'm sure we'll see a bit different Schumacher.

Still, being older than him, I can't but feel proud with his overtaking results and starts at the age he is now.

Kinda agree. Remembering back to Schumie V1 he was often all over the place in the free practice sessions. off the track at all the tricky corners but essentially testing the limits of the car and the tyres. I don't believe that his failure to qualify well was part of a greater design but he's one driver who learns from his experiences.

#15727 Sakae

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 23:34

Do we know if MS and Nico share data from their set up?

I do not know, but I doubt it, and here is why. (a) Different driving techniques where vehicle set-up is not necessarily a good common denominator; exception could be data on tire degradation data v. fuel consumption, and (b) Schumacher was always, or preponderantly a loner, who usually rely on his own set-up research. I don't think he has changed that much. Besides, and I am taxing my memory on that, didn't Rosber long time ago stated that he doesn't need Schumacher to prepare his car? I think that was a shot across the bows in very early stages of their relationship, when Nico was receiving a lot of unsolicited advice how to “handle” Schumacher.

Edited by Sakae, 23 November 2011 - 23:36.


#15728 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:28

I do not know, but I doubt it, and here is why. (a) Different driving techniques where vehicle set-up is not necessarily a good common denominator; exception could be data on tire degradation data v. fuel consumption, and (b) Schumacher was always, or preponderantly a loner, who usually rely on his own set-up research. I don't think he has changed that much. Besides, and I am taxing my memory on that, didn't Rosber long time ago stated that he doesn't need Schumacher to prepare his car? I think that was a shot across the bows in very early stages of their relationship, when Nico was receiving a lot of unsolicited advice how to “handle” Schumacher.


Brawn said last year(forgive me if I do not search for it) that they share data. If I remeber correctly, Rosberg himself has said the same. MS has always shared data with his teammates, I think, because, for instance, he used Barrichello"s setups frequently. Secondly, it was also stated several times that they prefer similar behaviour from the car, although of course that does not necessarily mean their style of car handling is similar too, as contradictory as that sounds. So they can try different setups in dividing work, I think they have done the same at Ferrari, and most of the teams work like that, if they don't have to go separate ways setupwise because of the drivers. Not sharing data is a left-over myth from the Senna era. (I don't necessarily mean Senna himself)

#15729 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:29

:up:
My understanding too, Szoelloe.

#15730 Sakae

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:38

Brawn said last year(forgive me if I do not search for it) that they share data. If I remeber correctly, Rosberg himself has said the same. MS has always shared data with his teammates, I think, because, for instance, he used Barrichello"s setups frequently. Secondly, it was also stated several times that they prefer similar behaviour from the car, although of course that does not necessarily mean their style of car handling is similar too, as contradictory as that sounds. So they can try different setups in dividing work, I think they have done the same at Ferrari, and most of the teams work like that, if they don't have to go separate ways setupwise because of the drivers. Not sharing data is a left-over myth from the Senna era. (I don't necessarily mean Senna himself)

I have nothing to dispute that, but please bear in mind that is bad PR for Ross to say that his drivers are in antagonistic relationship. I follow Schumacher for very long time, and my opinion was formed over that peridod by bits and pieces collected here and there. Maybe I was wrong all that time. I do however remember a case when Michael blew up once over his set up failure (do not remember a reason), and ask Brawn to have his teammate's set up data installed. The incident created quite a commotion in the paddock at that time. Episode re-inforced my view that there was not too much sharing going on.

Edited by Sakae, 24 November 2011 - 00:40.


#15731 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:47

I have nothing to dispute that, but please bear in mind that is bad PR for Ross to say that his drivers are in antagonistic relationship. I follow Schumacher for very long time, and my opinion was formed over that peridod by bits and pieces collected here and there. Maybe I was wrong all that time. I do however remember a case when Michael blew up once over his set up failure (do not remember a reason), and ask Brawn to have his teammate's set up data installed. The incident created quite a commotion in the paddock at that time. Episode re-inforced my view that there was not too much sharing going on.


The case you refer to was at Benetton early in MS's career, He demanded to see his teammates data, I think. And yes, it was about the last time maybe that data was not shared. It is just not effective for the team, if you think about it. There is nowadays a very small setup window, and working and exploring within that is quite methodical, with the testing ban and all. It is much more effective for the drivers too. I don't think it would be bad PR at all though. :)


edit, If I remember correctly, it was Herbert's setup.

Edited by Szoelloe, 24 November 2011 - 00:49.


#15732 Raelene

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:53

Brawn said last year(forgive me if I do not search for it) that they share data. If I remeber correctly, Rosberg himself has said the same. MS has always shared data with his teammates, I think, because, for instance, he used Barrichello"s setups frequently. Secondly, it was also stated several times that they prefer similar behaviour from the car, although of course that does not necessarily mean their style of car handling is similar too, as contradictory as that sounds. So they can try different setups in dividing work, I think they have done the same at Ferrari, and most of the teams work like that, if they don't have to go separate ways setupwise because of the drivers. Not sharing data is a left-over myth from the Senna era. (I don't necessarily mean Senna himself)


according to Jonny Herbert MSC didn't share his data with him, but he had to share with Michael. for the record - I wouldn't share ;)

#15733 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 00:54

according to Jonny Herbert MSC didn't share his data with him, but he had to share with Michael. for the record - I wouldn't share ;)


Yep I checked too. It was the other way around.


#15734 ivand911

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:51

I think there is different kinds of data. One is set up(settings, what kind of hardware they use,springs, shocks ,else), other is reactions time(way of driving) and else for sure. Mapping, gear ratios. I don't think window of car settings is very small? One car can be set up for 10000 variants. Only from the wheel they can change a lot of things(more than 100). Chief engineer(CD) for sure knows everything, what both teams are doing. But, what happen after this we don't know. The situation this year is much more competitive.

Edited by ivand911, 24 November 2011 - 09:52.


#15735 Sakae

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:59

I think there is different kinds of data. One is set up(settings, what kind of hardware they use,springs, shocks ,else), other is reactions time(way of driving) and else for sure. Mapping, gear ratios. I don't think window of car settings is very small? One car can be set up for 10000 variants. Only from the wheel they can change a lot of things(more than 100). Chief engineer(CD) for sure knows everything, what both teams are doing. But, what happen after this we don't know. The situation this year is much more competitive.

Exactly right. Ultimately one can take just balast differential into consideration between two drivers, and you can see that set-up needs to change. Finnally, tire choice, how stiff each driver wants his car - many difference creating need for two separate set-up configuration. Sharing could be done I guess only in vehicle neutral areas.

#15736 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 13:14

Exactly right. Ultimately one can take just balast differential into consideration between two drivers, and you can see that set-up needs to change. Finnally, tire choice, how stiff each driver wants his car - many difference creating need for two separate set-up configuration. Sharing could be done I guess only in vehicle neutral areas.


You mean MS is not allowed to check any setups NR has tried out if it works? Come on, you cannot be serious. And the same for NR? They can look at each others telemetry, setups, any data they wish to see.

Edited by Szoelloe, 24 November 2011 - 13:14.


#15737 Jejking

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 13:59

http://www.yallaf1.c...e-safer-visors/

Because of the extra 50 grams. You have fanatics, you have die-hards and you have those two. My word :o

#15738 ivand911

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 14:10

Rosberg is also not using it. MS is using old 2010 helmet , because he is lighter than 2011 variant , I think.

#15739 Sakae

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 15:12

You mean MS is not allowed to check any setups NR has tried out if it works? Come on, you cannot be serious. And the same for NR? They can look at each others telemetry, setups, any data they wish to see.

You are misintrepretting my post. I am not addressing willingness to communicate between two drivers actually at all. My comment is related to value of information that could be shared, which I think is not as much as some think. Definitely it is not straightforward copying of data from one to another car, unless it is the same (repaired) car. There is enough differences between drivers that makes each set-up configuration unique.

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#15740 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 15:57

You are misintrepretting my post. I am not addressing willingness to communicate between two drivers actually at all. My comment is related to value of information that could be shared, which I think is not as much as some think. Definitely it is not straightforward copying of data from one to another car, unless it is the same (repaired) car. There is enough differences between drivers that makes each set-up configuration unique.



I misunderstood you, yes. I agree.

#15741 cheapracer

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 18:03

Do we know if MS and Nico share data from their set up?


They would have to be complete morons and the team totally irresponsible to not share information/feedabck for cars that are way off the front runners pace - what the hell do either of them or the team have to gain by not sharing.

according to Jonny Herbert MSC didn't share his data with him, but he had to share with Michael. for the record - I wouldn't share ;)


I wouldn't care, I am either a better driver than my team mate or I am not. I play golf and 'bag watchers' don't worry me in the slightest, if they asked me I would tell them if it wasn't illegal.

Edited by cheapracer, 24 November 2011 - 18:09.


#15742 Raelene

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 20:33

I'm selfish ;)

I share my secrets as well, but when it comes to big competition I wouldn't share my secrets that made me better than someone else. I played in a world championship for something once - no way was I sharing my strategy with the competition. I finished 2nd in the world, so my strategy worked to beat out everyone else bar the current world champ..who had won twice before - obviously his strategy was better ;) I didn't ask him what it was ;)

Edited by Raelene, 24 November 2011 - 20:36.


#15743 zelpre

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 22:11

Brazilian GP Gallery


Really wish to see some rain in the race. Hope for some positive surprise from Michael...

#15744 spacekid

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 22:41

I'm selfish ;)

I share my secrets as well, but when it comes to big competition I wouldn't share my secrets that made me better than someone else. I played in a world championship for something once - no way was I sharing my strategy with the competition. I finished 2nd in the world, so my strategy worked to beat out everyone else bar the current world champ..who had won twice before - obviously his strategy was better ;) I didn't ask him what it was ;)


I'm curious now - what is it that you're second best in the world at Raelene?

#15745 Schumacher7

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 23:11

I'm curious now - what is it that you're second best in the world at Raelene?

Bullshitting.

#15746 Sakae

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 23:55

For her defense - Raelene has admitted before (forgot when :blush: ) that she was competing in some sport; also forgot which one :blush: :blush: . So, I believe her. It must be more than a year or two, but I do recall that.

Edited by Sakae, 24 November 2011 - 23:56.


#15747 Raelene

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 03:53

it wasn't a sport as such - it was a game of strategy and it was 2003..

I still LMAO over it - as I entered the comp in NZ as a bit of fun, won it and then 3 weeks later was in St Moritz switzerland competing for NZ (and I'm an Aussie) - only got serious when I made the final 4 - then the Aussie competitive spirit took over ;)

there are photos on the internet to prove it Schumacher7 - search Raelene and WRC (no it wasn't World Rally Championship ;);)= ) and you will be informed

Edited by Raelene, 25 November 2011 - 04:00.


#15748 cheapracer

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:56

Bullshitting.


Knife throwing champion so you should be careful.


#15749 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:30

I was wondering and don't recall if this has been discussed, what's the age of Schumacher fans around here?

Being 24 and having followed F1 for as long as I've followed anything, really, I still had problems remembering much about seasons prior to 1998 - although I recall watching Imola in 1994, for example. Ever since Schumacher's first announcement that he would return, what with the Massa accident, I started watching some of the season reviews, but I only got now to the years that were missing from my memory, up to 1998. It was quite interesting to watch, seeing how unlucky he was in 1997 and 1998 and what a toss-up occurred in 1999 after his injury.

It seemed to me, from the race reports, that Schumi didn't collide that much with other cars, particularly in those ambivalent years when the car wasn't at the top of the grid. Then again, no car Schumacher ever drove was as uncompetitive as the MGP, not even the 1996 Ferrari. And he wasn't 42 then either.

#15750 ivand911

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:17

I am 4 years younger than him. In my country I think F1 started to show the whole season since 1992. Before that I followed F1 by auto magazines. I read about him first when he was in Mercedes prototype cars. And then he suddenly enter F1.