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#15851 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 17:49

A shame, but not much in it anyway.

Michael said in the interview that there were some balance problems on the car, they couldn't sort them out before the 3rd stint (front-wing tweaking), and that he's looking forward to next year.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 27 November 2011 - 18:16.


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#15852 zelpre

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 18:17

P6 would have been possible. Shame.

Now the hardest part - waiting untill next season =/


Michael said in the interview that there were some balance problems on the car, they couldn't sort them out before the 3rd stint (front-wing tweaking), and that he's looking forward to next year.


Was that on RTL?

Edited by Buttoneer, 27 November 2011 - 18:25.


#15853 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 18:20

Was that on RTL?


Yes.

#15854 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 18:24

Balance problems. You aint wrong the onboards looked beyond awful. Slow one hand off the wheel pushing putting buttons changing dials. Not nice to see.

Edited by Massa_f1, 27 November 2011 - 18:24.


#15855 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 18:34

Posts moved. Discussion about the crash with Bruno now in its own thread.

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=157896

#15856 BRK

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 18:52

Probably onr of his hardest and toughest weekends this season. That car must have been utter shit to drive after the incident with Senna.


Shame about that accident, Michael tried to muscle his way past and succeeded, yeah they banged wheels but people keep saying they need more of that sort of action on track and, well, Michael's delivered. The Renault really must be a bitch to brake considering the 'incidents' they've had this season with MS...and that's giving Senna the benefit of the doubt.


Roll on 2012. His pace in the races has been fantastic for quite some time now, hope it carries over into 2012. And a better car, please. :smoking:

Edited by BRK, 27 November 2011 - 18:52.


#15857 zelpre

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 19:24

Michael had better pace again even with balance problems after the contact.

In the last stint way way faster than Nico.

http://en.mclarenf-1.....=Nico Rosberg

from 72 seconds gap to 51 seconds?

Edited by zelpre, 27 November 2011 - 19:37.


#15858 ivand911

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 19:54

from 72 seconds gap to 51 seconds?

21 sec is only the clear net gain, but MS also lost time with leaving leaders to pass. How many times they were around him, and he keep behind them for longer time. This was very good race, we were robbed again by LRGP guys.

Edited by ivand911, 27 November 2011 - 19:56.


#15859 zelpre

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:03

21 sec is only the clear net gain, but MS also lost time with leaving leaders to pass. How many times they were around him, and he keep behind them for longer time. This was very good race, we were robbed again by LRGP guys.


Most races were like this one. The last race just described Michael's season.


Turkey
Monaco
Silverstone
Nurburgring
Hungary
Singapore
Korea
and now Brazil

In all these 8 races above he had better race pace.

At least 8 times more he could finish infront of Nico.

Plus you must not forget he could still gain points in Valencia.


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#15860 Muz Bee

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:23

We'll give this race to Michael in the MS v NR 2011 then!!!

#15861 ivand911

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:26

We'll give this race to Michael in the MS v NR 2011 then!!!

In this thread we don't give races ;) Nico can have it. I am just sorry for missed opportunities. OK, next year.

willbuxton: As Lewis said in our SPEED interview, he's got big respect for Felipe. Think's he's the toughest guy, other than Schumacher, to pass.

Edited by ivand911, 27 November 2011 - 20:28.


#15862 exmayol

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:27

Another typical race... i.e. decent pace yet some accident preventing to score. Onto the next year. Lets hope MGP delivers a better car so that even with crippled qualifying abilities MS will be able to start from top 6 and avoid messing with amateurs.

#15863 ivand911

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:32

I also think about Qualy problems. Can he beat Nico? And why he don't do it? And the answer is always the same: Race is more important that Qualy. Points are given for the race.

#15864 zelpre

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 20:39

Agree with both of you.

#15865 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 21:16

Point is, he could've normally qualified ahead of Senna, had he made a proper timed run in Q3. Not only would that have most likely avoided the accident, but it would've also allowed for a better start, as the straight numbers on the grid won positions almost all around.

Another thing to be noted, his start wasn't that bad, but he got unlucky behind two slower cars in the two turns, while also being squeezed out by Di Resta, if I recall correctly.

#15866 Tardis40

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 21:26

Michael lost out at the start when he made a move to the left. He was in the middle of the track and looking to pass but got caught behind another car when he tried to take the inside line. That cost him a couple of positions right there.


#15867 Muz Bee

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 21:28

In this thread we don't give races ;) Nico can have it. I am just sorry for missed opportunities. OK, next year.

willbuxton: As Lewis said in our SPEED interview, he's got big respect for Felipe. Think's he's the toughest guy, other than Schumacher, to pass.

As I am sure Nico is Ivan.

Granted MS's race performances have been better (relative to qualifying) but qualifying outside the top 10 in a top 10 car is not good. What is good is he has kept his relentless drive for better results going. Nico will be a future beneficiary of his time with the old champ and it's good to see healthy respect in both directions. :up:

#15868 f1rookie

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:12

Videos: Schumacher and Senna crash in 2011 Brazilian GP
http://www.formula1o...a-crash-in.html

#15869 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:19

Point is, he could've normally qualified ahead of Senna, had he made a proper timed run in Q3. Not only would that have most likely avoided the accident, but it would've also allowed for a better start, as the straight numbers on the grid won positions almost all around.

Another thing to be noted, his start wasn't that bad, but he got unlucky behind two slower cars in the two turns, while also being squeezed out by Di Resta, if I recall correctly.



Thats why i was so :mad: Saturday was so stupid from both Schumacher and the team. Just get out and set a time. The whole incident should never of happened. I fear for more of the same of 2012. As i see nothing changing.

#15870 Skanka

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:22

Michael lost out at the start when he made a move to the left. He was in the middle of the track and looking to pass but got caught behind another car when he tried to take the inside line. That cost him a couple of positions right there.

Yeah he got squeezed by Senna at the exit of the Senna S, the same situation happened last year at the same spot with Kubica. It's a shame that, yet again, another race has been screwed due to a racing incident, but he's always bound to be more exposed with situations like these when he starts from so far back. However I'm happy to see that Michael was back on the pace again in this race, his poor Abu Dhabi form was a just a one-off then, very impressed with his last stint on the prime tyre especially.

Many positives to take from this season, hopefully next year the W03 will be competitive, I'm looking forward to 2012. :smoking:

#15871 KavB

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:30

It has been a good season for Michael; He has scored more points than last year in a less competitive car. I thought his start of the season was poor but he raised his game. Michael needs to improve his qualifying though, otherwise his race pace won't matter as much.

#15872 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:32

Schumacher started on old tyres for the race anyway so not running in Q3 was pointless. He could have done a Q3 time on older tyres and probably still pipped Senna to 9th.

Still, I hope these qualifying issues sort themself out in the 2012, especially if these teams are closely matched next season - 2 or 3 tenths could mean 4-5 places on the grid.

#15873 Sakae

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 22:34

Hey Michael, if you read this - hoping to see you another two years on my TV. Have a rest, don't get lazy over winter, and looking forward better next year. :wave:

#15874 ivand911

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:47

"Hey Jean, if you read this, can't you make them cut front wings by 10-15cm from both sides. Call CW, will help a lot. Thanks for periscopes.

Yours, Michael."
:lol:

Edited by ivand911, 28 November 2011 - 10:48.


#15875 Jejking

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 13:48

Good heavens, yesterday was Brazil 2006 all over again. Renault vs Schumacher, it's never going to work out. Unbelievable what a rotten luck (sharp contrast, in 2006 Schumacher squeezed a bit but not yesterday). P14/15 was bad stuff, he deserved more than that because the pace was most of the time as fast or slightly faster than his teammate.

#15876 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 13:53

That's the tale of 2011, isn't it? Schumacher faster than Nico but bad judgement, mistakes and other circumstances mean he is chasing scraps rather than duking it out with either Massa or his team mate.

#15877 rog

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 14:00

Good heavens, yesterday was Brazil 2006 all over again. Renault vs Schumacher, it's never going to work out. Unbelievable what a rotten luck (sharp contrast, in 2006 Schumacher squeezed a bit but not yesterday). P14/15 was bad stuff, he deserved more than that because the pace was most of the time as fast or slightly faster than his teammate.



Just slightly faster with a three stop strategy against the slower two stop strategy? I see nothing special here to be honest.

#15878 ivand911

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 14:11

Just slightly faster with a three stop strategy against the slower two stop strategy? I see nothing special here to be honest.

It is, if you look at the Qualifying. :p Was slightly only because MS crashed, would be devastating without the crash. MS was fighting Sutil yesterday, not Nico. We know where Sutil finished.

Edited by ivand911, 28 November 2011 - 14:31.


#15879 zelpre

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:06

Just slightly faster with a three stop strategy against the slower two stop strategy? I see nothing special here to be honest.


Slightly lol? Before posting nonsense, check the lap times - http://en.mclarenf-1.....=Nico Rosberg - It is even in colors, it should help you if you don't know how to read lap times.

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#15880 rog

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 17:19

Slightly lol? Before posting nonsense, check the lap times - http://en.mclarenf-1.....=Nico Rosberg - It is even in colors, it should help you if you don't know how to read lap times.


Nonsense? Are you able to read? The slightly comes from Jejking not me, I have just asked. Before blaming read properly next time. Your link is a good example on how bad a two stop strategy yesterday was.

#15881 zelpre

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:22

Nonsense? Are you able to read? The slightly comes from Jejking not me, I have just asked. Before blaming read properly next time. Your link is a good example on how bad a two stop strategy yesterday was.


Oh sorry for the "slightly" part.

Michael was on bad strategy too! Because of the early pit stop he had to stay out long and make longer stints.
And what are you going to say for the last stint?Michael was way faster than Nico...

#15882 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:24

Even with the two stop strategy, it does seem that Nico's lap times on the hard compound were generally poor - due to balance problems or whatever. Even so, when he got out after the second pit-stop, his time difference to Schumacher was 52.293. At the end of the race, by which time Schumacher had done another pit-stop and lapped consistently faster than Rosberg, the difference was 51.079.

So I'm not quite sure what's speaking in absolute favor of a three-stopper.

#15883 valachus

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:35

Give it a rest folks, this season's history and the MGP W02 should be given a viking burial at sea :) Just set it on fire and watch it sink, I say.
On another train of thought, what about the EBD next year, is it still on or is it off? I was just thinking that for some reason the TV feed just doesn't sound like videos shot by amateurs at the tracks - like this one for instance: .
Maybe this year the difference was made not by throttle footwork, but rather by the lack of it - just take the foot off the throttle and the ECU software will take care that every bit of downforce is extracted - and the car with the most advanced arcade-like driving aids won by a mile.
Bring on 2012, the EBD ban and perhaps some Pirelli tyres that don't fall apart as soon as a driver starts punishing them.

#15884 Kubiccia

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:45

Still, I hope these qualifying issues sort themself out in the 2012, especially if these teams are closely matched next season - 2 or 3 tenths could mean 4-5 places on the grid.


It's not gonna be solved. It's 2 years now with this and I'm confident that his raw speed will never be the same again.

There was sometimes Turkey and Spa 2010 and Suzuka 2011(he was faster than Nico in FPs and his speed didn't disapear on qualifying that time, eventhough Nico couldn't participate on the session) where his speed was okay, not monster like before but still better than Nico. I don't know why he can't do that often and it seems nobody does, nor the team neither MSC himself.

Expect good races from him in 2012 but not good qualifying pace, is what I suggest

#15885 zelpre

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 18:54

Even with the two stop strategy, it does seem that Nico's lap times on the hard compound were generally poor - due to balance problems or whatever. Even so, when he got out after the second pit-stop, his time difference to Schumacher was 52.293. At the end of the race, by which time Schumacher had done another pit-stop and lapped consistently faster than Rosberg, the difference was 51.079.

So I'm not quite sure what's speaking in absolute favor of a three-stopper.


the three-stopper was faster for sure, the example was Massa too! But Michael didn't had the ideal three-stopper, he almost did two-stopper, that's the point...

He was consistently faster than Rosberg, even if he also had to leave space to front runners who were lapping him.

#15886 baddog

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 19:50

On what basis is an extremely early first stop forcing a distorted 3 stop strategy going to lead to faster lap times? That doesn't make any sense at all. These aren't the days of refueling you know.



#15887 Jejking

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:03

Just slightly faster with a three stop strategy against the slower two stop strategy? I see nothing special here to be honest.

Keep in mind the three stop strategy wasn't intended, I'm sure Schumacher originally also was on the two-stopper considering both had an equal amount of soft tyres saved. My recollection of 'slightly' was based on what I saw on Live Timing but in the end I was doing some dishes and following Button-Alonso on hearing. It appeared Schumacher was only a little bit slower on softs (out of sync due to Sennagate) but massively faster than Rosberg on the harder tyre, he really made up big chunks of time against his teammate (on the timing sheets). In the meantime on track the progress was nil because in the end vs the rest it was down to car performance on the medium tyres.

All in all he would at least have been close to Rosberg if it weren't for an overoptimistic Brazilian. It would have been interesting to see if he had been able to keep it up against Sutil who was *really* on a spree in Sao Paulo.

Edit: thanks for the link again for the laptimes. To be honest, I'm very impressed by Schumachers consistency. And another note, for every 'hater' out there who points out that the net difference between the two is so small, also take into account that Schumacher after his flat tyre was instantly lapped and in traffic, and never able to recover from that anymore. There were several blue flags which meant he had to give way. The blues cost him about... *afaics* 6 seconds, traffic I can't tell.

Edited by Jejking, 29 November 2011 - 12:10.


#15888 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:12

Give it a rest folks, this season's history and the MGP W02 should be given a viking burial at sea :) Just set it on fire and watch it sink, I say.
On another train of thought, what about the EBD next year, is it still on or is it off? I was just thinking that for some reason the TV feed just doesn't sound like videos shot by amateurs at the tracks - like this one for instance: .
Maybe this year the difference was made not by throttle footwork, but rather by the lack of it - just take the foot off the throttle and the ECU software will take care that every bit of downforce is extracted - and the car with the most advanced arcade-like driving aids won by a mile.
Bring on 2012, the EBD ban and perhaps some Pirelli tyres that don't fall apart as soon as a driver starts punishing them.


I've been saying this for months now too. Next year no off throttle mapping so we will see.

#15889 ivand911

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:17

Somebody said that MS was originally on 3 stopper when Nico was on 2. Before the race he was like: Wait and you will see. He was sure in his strategy. But, then Senna happened. First he push MS out of the track in corner 2 and DIR pass him. Then the hits followed. If MS passed Senna without the problems , he could fight Sutil, who was 4 sec ahead behind Nico.

#15890 Jejking

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:27

Interesting stuff! I just did some research on the points systems, quick 'n dirty. Guess who came out on top if you compare 2002, 2004 and 2011?;)

Did you know: A certain WR for numbers of points in a season was once 144, then 148 (MSC, 2002, 2004). With the current points system it'd be different. Wait, a list is handier, quick 'n dirty though due to time constraints:

Old '2002' system:
MSC 2002: 144
MSC 2004: 142
SB 2011: 147

Newer '2003' system:
MSC 2002: 156
MSC 2004: 148
SB 2011: 161

Current '2011' system:
MSC 2002: 380
MSC 2004: 367
SB 2011: 392

How's that for perspective? If you compare both cars and drives from the seasons (apart from Schumachers mishap in Monaco, China 2004 and Vettels demise from Abu Dhabi this year), there might be some definitive conclusions to be drawn. I think I discovered some good stuff for my final thesis :D

Edited by Jejking, 29 November 2011 - 12:29.


#15891 Tardis40

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:36

Interesting stuff! I just did some research on the points systems, quick 'n dirty. Guess who came out on top if you compare 2002, 2004 and 2011?;)

Did you know: A certain WR for numbers of points in a season was once 144, then 148 (MSC, 2002, 2004). With the current points system it'd be different. Wait, a list is handier, quick 'n dirty though due to time constraints:

Old '2002' system:
MSC 2002: 144
MSC 2004: 142
SB 2011: 147

Newer '2003' system:
MSC 2002: 156
MSC 2004: 148
SB 2011: 161

Current '2011' system:
MSC 2002: 380
MSC 2004: 367
SB 2011: 392

How's that for perspective? If you compare both cars and drives from the seasons (apart from Schumachers mishap in Monaco, China 2004 and Vettels demise from Abu Dhabi this year), there might be some definitive conclusions to be drawn. I think I discovered some good stuff for my final thesis :D


Bear in mind that there were fewer GPs in 02 and 04. I don't know how you worked it out but that should be taken into account.



#15892 Jejking

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 12:42

I didn't think about that.

17 for '02, 18 for '04 and 19 in '11.

Based on that law of experiments where great numbers eventually even out the odds (don't know the English term for it) to draw an average, I think it would be justifiable to pull the line along and multiply the results to bring a definitive result on this topic. Opinion?

Edited by Jejking, 29 November 2011 - 12:46.


#15893 cheapracer

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 14:41

Well another year gone and I wished that things were better, not that I was expecting miracles. I never expected MS to be the big winner again for all the reasons we have all gone over but I didn't expect the car to be as bad either - 2 seconds at some tracks ffs.

If I was a team manager I would still think Nico has the edge overall even in the second half but can see things being level next year if the climb continues.

Will be very interesting to compare how Kimi shapes up after his layoff as a comparison even though Kimi has an age advantage and the rallying doesn't hurt either - I expect him to struggle at the beginning.



#15894 schubacca

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 14:51

Well another year gone and I wished that things were better, not that I was expecting miracles. I never expected MS to be the big winner again for all the reasons we have all gone over but I didn't expect the car to be as bad either - 2 seconds at some tracks ffs.

If I was a team manager I would still think Nico has the edge overall even in the second half but can see things being level next year if the climb continues.

Will be very interesting to compare how Kimi shapes up after his layoff as a comparison even though Kimi has an age advantage and the rallying doesn't hurt either - I expect him to struggle at the beginning.



Mercedes uncompetitive cars actually gives MS time to get up to speed. I dont think that he cares about finishing 8th to NR's 7th...... If his teammate were to win the WDC and he was to finish 2nd, then he would be miffed.....

In this respect, Mark Webber should be really ticked to finish so far behind his teammate...

#15895 cheapracer

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:12

Mercedes uncompetitive cars actually gives MS time to get up to speed.


I don't agree with that, a competitive car spurs you on and a slow car just wastes your time developing it.


#15896 KiloWatt

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 06:42

Interesting stuff! I just did some research on the points systems, quick 'n dirty. Guess who came out on top if you compare 2002, 2004 and 2011?;)

Did you know: A certain WR for numbers of points in a season was once 144, then 148 (MSC, 2002, 2004). With the current points system it'd be different. Wait, a list is handier, quick 'n dirty though due to time constraints:

Old '2002' system:
MSC 2002: 144
MSC 2004: 142
SB 2011: 147

Newer '2003' system:
MSC 2002: 156
MSC 2004: 148
SB 2011: 161

Current '2011' system:
MSC 2002: 380
MSC 2004: 367
SB 2011: 392

How's that for perspective? If you compare both cars and drives from the seasons (apart from Schumachers mishap in Monaco, China 2004 and Vettels demise from Abu Dhabi this year), there might be some definitive conclusions to be drawn. I think I discovered some good stuff for my final thesis :D


I'm sorry, it's still early in the morning for me and my brain isn't fully on yet. But what does WR and SB stand for?

#15897 Disgrace

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:26

It's a typo of SV, or Vettel. WR is world record. Vettel has beaten Schumacher's points tallies in '02 and '04 in '11 under all three points systems such was (nice to use past tense) his dominance over what was a longer season.

Edited by Disgrace, 30 November 2011 - 07:29.


#15898 baddog

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:40

Actually equalised for 17 races we get
Old '2002' system:	
2002	144
2004	134
2011	132
	
Newer '2003' system:	
2002	156
2004	140
2011	144
	
Current '2011' system:	
2002	380
2004	347
2011	351

Which still places 2002 at the top by a margin.. however I suspect its beaten thoroughly by some earlier efforts.

#15899 ivand911

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:06

This was not well accepted in Kimi thread:
"Motorsport Magazin.com - Christian, Kimi Raikkonen drives in Formula 1 soon. Your opinion about the comeback of the Iceman?
Danner: For Formula 1 of course it is nice to have another World Champion in the field. However, I have my doubts about Kimi's performance terms. We have seen with Michael Schumacher, how difficult it is to be competitive again after a break in F1. If it was so hard for Michael Schumacher, I honestly am very pessimistic about Kimi, in all areas he never had Michael's class.

Discipline was never Raikkonen's strength ...
Christian Danner: Kimi had never had this discipline such as Michael Schumacher - and he has not even now. A further complication is that Formula 1 in the past few years has changed incredibly. The manner in which the driver must now cope with the F1 is far harder than they did three years ago.
[...]"
http://www.motorspor...-fuer-kimi.html

Really, don't see why??

Edited by ivand911, 02 December 2011 - 15:57.


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#15900 Jejking

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:20

I'm sorry, it's still early in the morning for me and my brain isn't fully on yet. But what does WR and SB stand for?

Apparently mine wasn't either. SB=>SV indeed :p

Actually equalised for 17 races we get

Old '2002' system:	
2002	144
2004	134
2011	132
	
Newer '2003' system:	
2002	156
2004	140
2011	144
	
Current '2011' system:	
2002	380
2004	347
2011	351

Which still places 2002 at the top by a margin.. however I suspect its beaten thoroughly by some earlier efforts.

You got those points by... leaving what out exactly? The worst 1 result in 2004 and 2 in 2011? /curious.

This was not well accepted in Kimi thread:
"Motorsport Magazin.com - Christian, Kimi Raikkonen drives in Formula 1 soon. Your opinion about the comeback of the Iceman?
Danner: For Formula 1 of course it is nice to have another World Champion in the field. However, I have my doubts about Kimi's performance terms. We have seen with Michael Schumacher, how difficult it is to be competitive again after a break in F1. If it was so hard for Michael Schumacher, I honestly am very pessimistic about Kimi, in all areas he never had Michael's class.

Discipline was never Raikkonen's strength ...
Christian Danner: Kimi had never had this discipline such as Michael Schumacher - and he has not even now. A further complication is that Formula 1 in the past few years has changed incredibly. The manner in which the driver must now cope with the F1 is far harder than they did three years ago. Quite honestly, I think Kimi's chances of success are very small.
[...]

Does Raikkonen lose the desire again, if the results fail to appear?
Danner: I've never seen Kimi driving differently, just like Kimi runs: monosyllabicly (sic!). This basic 'indifference', he still has, no matter whether he wins a race or is tenth.
[...]"
http://www.motorspor...-fuer-kimi.html

Really, don't see why??

I disagree with this too, for the following reasons:
1. Kimi is about 10 years younger than Michael, advantage Kimi.
2. Kimi was out for 2 years, compared to Michael's three, advantage Kimi.
3. Kimi is a bloody Finn, which means his car control is very very good (if you disagree, name me one Finn who wasn't in F1 for sthg else than driving ability).
4. Kimi was out rallying, not exactly the worst thing you can do to maintain your abilities.
5. Kimi was recharging his batteries so I don't think an early setback (if any will happen) will affect him that much as long as his working environment isn't too much of the cuddly kind like we've seen at Ferrari.