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#16001 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:33

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

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#16002 Jejking

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:51

Sorry the court was completely invalid. One of the judges on that case was a blinkered Schumacher zealot by the name of baddog, you may recognize his postings here in the RC defending Schumacher 100% of the time and criticizing him 0% of the time. You don’t let an advocate for the accused judge the guilt or innocence of same, basic justice 101. The inherent bias and lack of objectivity on that case may be one of the reasons the court was allowed to die.

Wrapped up for the readers: four lines-O-bullshit :stoned:


Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

And Schumacher joined at the Italian Grand Prix two weeks later. What was your point again?

Edited by Jejking, 14 December 2011 - 15:53.


#16003 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:54

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

#16004 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:00

Canada 1998:
Forces Frentzen to leave the track by abruptly joining the racing line after a pit stop,
leading to the introduction of the pit lane exit line that cannot be crossed

#16005 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:01

Great memories indeed! :D

#16006 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:10

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

You believe that was Schumacher's idea? If it was then it was a genius move on his part.

#16007 Jejking

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:19

He just executed it. Good tactics of the Ferrariteam by my book.

#16008 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:25

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Damon Hill, the master of mis-judgements and hypocrisy.

#16009 ivand911

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:26

Sorry the court was completely invalid. One of the judges on that case was a blinkered Schumacher zealot by the name of baddog, you may recognize his postings here in the RC defending Schumacher 100% of the time and criticizing him 0% of the time. You don’t let an advocate for the accused judge the guilt or innocence of same, basic justice 101. The inherent bias and lack of objectivity on that case may be one of the reasons the court was allowed to die.

Anyone have link to this great thread , seems the justice was done. :clap:


#16010 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:27

Britain 1998 was a brilliant tactical decision. :clap: :clap:

#16011 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:28

You may be ineterested in knowing that I have NEVER brought up either the Adeleide or the Jerez incidents. I don't need to. My opinion is that Schumacher may have all of the stats to his name, but I do not think he is one of the greats. It is MHO. Of which I am perfectly entitled. I'll state a few of my reasons too, The simple fact that he is unable to come to grips with the Merc, despite all of his talents (of which so many of you ceaselessly bring up over and over again), the fact that for the first time he has a teammate who is not restrained by contractual issues to play second fiddle to him and who has out pointed him the past 2 seasons, his ruthless maneuver on Barrichello and his stopping at the Rascasse at Monaco 2006 after setting the fastest time in qualifying. Not the makings, IMHO, of a great driver. But I give the man credit where credit is due, he brought Ferrari back to a force that was nigh unbeatable and that was his total commitment to the job at hand, that and a fat paycheck. He has had some stellar drives no doubt about that, but so have many others, but as I said, these are my opinons.

The word you're looking for is "Sportsman" considering Rascasse, Jerez & Hungary are not examples and measures of driving skill but of sportsmanship.

#16012 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:31

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

Ohh nice memories, the genius that is Ross Brawn at work. :up:

#16013 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:36

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

There was only one party who were at wrong that day and that was the FIA.

#16014 salamin

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:51

+1 to silverstone '98 , genius move from MS/Brawn

#16015 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:04

Austria 2000:
Following a shunt, Schumacher manoeuvres his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged and re-started

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 17:05.


#16016 ivand911

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:04

Schumacher becomes candidate for football Chairman
http://www.gpupdate....tball-chairman/

#16017 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:07

EUROPEAN GRAND PRIX 2001:
Even Ralf felt the sheer force of his dirt
Michael Schumacher made a poor start to the 2001 European Grand Prix at Germany's Nurburgring, while brother Ralf was much faster away in his Williams.
To stop his brother passing, Michael veered across the track at him, leaving Ralf with the choice of backing off or risk being forced into the wall.
He backed off.

#16018 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:07

The word you're looking for is "Sportsman" considering Rascasse, Jerez & Hungary are not examples and measures of driving skill but of sportsmanship.


Yes amongst other things sportsman is correct and IMHO this is one of the reasons I do not think he is one of the greats.

#16019 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:12

Yes amongst other things sportsman is correct and IMHO this is one of the reasons I do not think he is one of the greats.

And evaluating him as a driver is not amongst those things. Clearly you're unable to differentiate between a driver's racing skills and his fair play.

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#16020 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:12

Slategray these thing you're saying aren't proof he was a bad driver, you do realise that don't you? Instead they show an intelligence on the track and a strong desire to win which are the two main reasons I support him. The more you post the higher I rate him.

#16021 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:20

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

#16022 ForeverF1

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:23

Posts deleted. Please, discuss the points put forward, not the poster. Thanks.

#16023 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:24

Slategray these thing you're saying aren't proof he was a bad driver,

We have Rosberg for that!

#16024 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:26

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

Yes, he did. This had never happened before or after in any team, be that Ferrari of recent time, Hill at Williams, McLaren...

OK, what else you have?

Edited by Sakae, 14 December 2011 - 17:26.


#16025 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:28

We have Rosberg for that!

Shouldn't that be Schumacher IS a bad driver, rather than WAS a bad driver?

#16026 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:32

Here is the complete list from Slategray.

The replies to that post show how much this list is worth :

Like taking candy from a baby!

A a partial lit of Schumacher's dirty deeds....

Britain 1994:
Disqualified and banned for two races after failing to take his stop-go penalty for overtaking on the warm-up lap.

Australia 1994:
Crashed into Damon Hill to ensure victory in the 1994 WDC!
With the world championship at stake, Schumacher's Benetton slid wide and into the wall while trying to stay ahead of title rival Damon Hill's Williams.
Schumacher rejoined the track with a damaged car and Hill, who had not seen the German's error, attemped to pass him at the next corner.
Schumacher turned in on the Williams, putting both cars out of the race and sealing his first world title.
Hill wrote in a subsequent book: "There are two things that set Michael apart from the rest of the drivers in Formula One - his sheer talent and his attitude.
I am full of admiration for the former, but the latter leaves me cold."


1994 season:
Suspect software found on the Benetton that Schumacher drove
There were several instances of cheating in the 1994 Formula One season One of the main allegations surrounded the Benetton team.
The team were alleged to have been using illegal software to their advantage in races
Ayrton Senna suspicious that the Benetton car was illegal

1994 season:
Cheating allegations reignited in the summer of 1994, after a refueling fire on Jos Verstappen's Benetton car at the German Grand Prix.
After an investigation by Intertechnique at Benetton's team factory,
the FIA revealed that the team had been using an illegal fuel valve, without a fuel filter, that pumped fuel into the car 12.5% faster than a normal, legal fuel valve that had a filter.

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing.

Europe 1997:
Drove into Jacques Villeneuve in an attempt to secure the Drivers’ Championship.
“You’ve hit the wrong part of him my friend!,” said commentator Martin Brundle.
Sir Frank Williams put Villeneuve’s car on display to show the mark left by Schumacher’s tyre.
The German newspapers were among the many from across Europe that attacked Schumacher.
Bild said "Schumacher was to blame for the crash." "He played for high stakes and lost everything - the World Championship and his reputation for fair play.
There is no doubt that he wanted to take out Villeneuve".

The Frankfurter Allgemeine called him "a kamikaze without honor" and commented that the "monument is starting to crack because the foundations are faulty."
A German TV station asked fans for their views and received the views of 63,081 votes. 28% said they could not support Schumacher any longer.
In Italy there was widespread condemnation of Schumacher.
The daily newspaper Unita called for him to be fired by Ferrari. "Schumacher ought to face charges in a Spanish court for the grave deed he committed" it reported. "The driver covered himself, Ferrari and Italian sport as a whole with shame. We are waiting for Ferrari to announce that it is throwing out Michael Schumacher and hiring a new driver who is more intelligent, has more wisdom and a real sense of morality."
La Repubblica reported that "seeing a world title vanish after waiting 18 years is sad enough. But to see it go up in smoke with the move from Michael Schumacher is unfortunately much worse. It's shameful."
Gazzetta dello Sport said that if Ferrari had won the title it would have been "a title to hide" and said that it preferred to go on waiting for the day when "our passion for Ferrari has a happy ending."
Even La Stampa, the newspaper owned by the Agnelli family, which also controlled Ferrari, said "His image as a champion was shattered, like a glass hit by a stone."
In the British newspapers, Schumacher's manoeuvre against Damon Hill at the 1994 Australian Grand Prix was used as a comparison in many of the reports.
The Daily Mail reported that Schumacher had now "lost the last vestige of his reputation of being a sportsman"
and The Times wrote that Schumacher had "sacrificed his reputation by an act of such cynicism that it lost him the right to any sympathy."
Ferrari hosted a press conference on the Tuesday after Jerez during which Schumacher admitted that he had made a mistake but said it was a misjudgment rather than a deliberate attempt to take out Villeneuve. "I am human like everyone else and unfortunately I made a mistake," he said. "I don't make many but I did this time."

Britain 1998:
Wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

Canada 1998:
Forces Frentzen to leave the track by abruptly joining the racing line after a pit stop,
leading to the introduction of the pit lane exit line that cannot be crossed

Austria 2000:
Following a shunt, manoeuvres his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged and re-started

EUROPEAN GRAND PRIX 2001:
Even Ralf felt the sheer force of his dirt
Michael Schumacher made a poor start to the 2001 European Grand Prix at Germany's Nurburgring, while brother Ralf was much faster away in his Williams.
To stop his brother passing, Michael veered across the track at him, leaving Ralf with the choice of backing off or risk being forced into the wall.
He backed off.

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

Germany 2001:
Once again moves his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged — this time successfully

Austria 2002:

Barrichello again forced to let Schumacher pass on the final corner — this time for the win.
The spectators were furious. This leads to the “ban” on team orders

USA 2002:
A failed attempt at a “manufactured dead heat”.
Some say it is payback for Austria. Once again, the fans are furious — and of all places, the USA is the one place this should not happen

Europe 2003:
Successfully encourages track marshals to push his beached car back on to the race track
recklessly endangering the lives of said marshals for his own personal gain.

BRITISH GRAND PRIX 2003:
Trying to defend his position from Renault driver Fernando Alonso on the opening lap, Schumacher moved across on the Spaniard at the fastest part of the track.
Although Alonso did not back off, Schumacher continued to move across, forcing half the Renault on to the grass at 190mph.
He escaped punishment.

Australia 2005:
Yet again helped out by marshals who choose to ignore Nick Heidfeld who is also beached.

Monaco 2006:
Rascassegate
Again blocking track in the Q to try to gain advantage for himself
Outrage abounds and Schumacher is put to the back for the race start

Hungary 2010:
Schumacher's aggressive driving in attempting to prevent Barrichello from overtaking drew strong criticism from commentators and former drivers, including triple World Champion Niki Lauda and former Schumacher team-mates Eddie Irvine and Martin Brundle.
Triple World Champion Jackie Stewart commented "We are never more than a millimetre away from something awful happening and for Schumacher to do what he did with Rubens Barrichello is just inviting disaster. ... It was one of the most blatant abuses of another driver that I have seen. It is a terrible example from a man who has seven world titles, bully-boy tactics."
Schumacher publicly defended his actions after the race and in the Stewards' hearing. Derek Warwick, one of the stewards for the race, commented that Schumacher could have been shown the black flag, resulting in an instant disqualification, had there been more time left in the race for the stewards to review the video evidence

2011:
To be continued.... lets hope everyone escapes Schumachers tactics in good health


http://en.wikipedia.org
http://autosport.com
http://forums.autosport.com
http://www.pitpass.com
http://www.grandprix.com/
http://doctorvee.co....hael-schumacher
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/5024532.stm



#16027 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:35

OK, what else you have?


USA 2002:
A failed attempt at a “manufactured dead heat”.
Some say it is payback for Austria. Once again, the fans are furious — and of all places, the USA is the one place this should not happen

#16028 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:41

Shouldn't that be Schumacher IS a bad driver, rather than WAS a bad driver?

No teammate benchmark for "was" because of Schumacher's insistence that his teammate not be allowed to compete with him at the time, a luxury he no longer enjoys, so we have no way to be sure. I feel Rubens would have done as well or better if the team orders at Ferrari had been reversed.



#16029 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:55

The replies to that post show how much this list is worth :

What a bunch of hard core Schumacher fans think may be just the slightest bit biased, so you may want to consider the source when gauging their reaction to the list of Schumacher's dirty deeds.
Please point out any inaccuracies or errors or typos in the list, otherwise I will assume that you are in 100% agreement with the points made.

Cheers



#16030 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:57

I am not sure SlateGray what you are saying; is it that Schumacher is a flawed human being, cheater, criminal, substandard driver ...? Can you summarize it once for all into couple of sentences? For me rehashing bad decisions taken in different era, just as submission of sensational headlines from hostile and bias press as a "proof" of Schumacher's guilt is not very convincing.

Schumacher came on the race track of hard moves by Senna and alike. He, admittedly, was a hard young man himself, which seems cought many people by surprise. None of it is tolerated today, and in time he has polished his grasp of English and race craft to different levels, but in reality it is still the same man; trust me on that.

I saw in 2011 several moves between Massa and Hamilton which could ended up as any of accidents Schumacher had, but luckilly they did not. I am not asking you to like him or whatever, but I am trying to tell you, that we have in here different perception on events of the past, and it seems that after decade of writing about it, not too many will change their minds one way or another.

#16031 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:23

I am not sure SlateGray what you are saying; is it that Schumacher is a flawed human being,


Yes

criminal,



Cheating can be criminal as lots of other peoples money is involved

substandard driver ...?



Yes, Schumacher’s lack of performance against Rosberg is the proof of this

Can you summarize it once for all into couple of sentences?




No.

For me rehashing bad decisions taken in different era, just as submission of sensational headlines from hostile and bias press as a "proof" of Schumacher's guilt is not very convincing.




The press was not biased any more for or against Schumacher then they are for any other driver. I find the evidence and comment of experts to be very convincing.


Schumacher came on the race track of hard moves by Senna and alike. He, admittedly, was a hard young man himself, which seems cought many people by surprise. None of it is tolerated today, and in time he has polished his grasp of English and race craft to different levels, but in reality it is still the same man; trust me on that.


Just because Senna pulled some unsporting moves does not make it ok for Schumacher to do the same, I do not recall any cheating attempts by Senna, Schumacher has tried to cheat several times including winning the 1994 WDC by intentionally hitting his opponent

Disagree that he has changed his spots, He gooned Rubens last year and had to be warned this year via radio to “leave room” translation there is “stop trying to run people off the track” he has not changed at all, just been exposed for the mid packer he really is

I saw in 2011 several moves between Massa and Hamilton which could ended up as any of accidents Schumacher had, but luckilly they did not. I am not asking you to like him or whatever, but I am trying to tell you, that we have in here different perception on events of the past, and it seems that after decade of writing about it, not too many will change their minds one way or another.


Hamilton and Massa tripped over each other several times this season that is true but there was not any intentional contact, very different to what bully boy Schumacher does / did.



#16032 schubacca

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:23

I am not sure SlateGray what you are saying; is it that Schumacher is a flawed human being, cheater, criminal, substandard driver ...? Can you summarize it once for all into couple of sentences? For me rehashing bad decisions taken in different era, just as submission of sensational headlines from hostile and bias press as a "proof" of Schumacher's guilt is not very convincing.

Schumacher came on the race track of hard moves by Senna and alike. He, admittedly, was a hard young man himself, which seems cought many people by surprise. None of it is tolerated today, and in time he has polished his grasp of English and race craft to different levels, but in reality it is still the same man; trust me on that.

I saw in 2011 several moves between Massa and Hamilton which could ended up as any of accidents Schumacher had, but luckilly they did not. I am not asking you to like him or whatever, but I am trying to tell you, that we have in here different perception on events of the past, and it seems that after decade of writing about it, not too many will change their minds one way or another.


Schumacher is a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaddddddddd man.

SEAL TEAM 6 should be deployed in order to rid the world of such a **** and villain.

If MS was around at the time of Dante, he would have added an extra circle of hell to place MS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seriously......

Take the good with the bad...... Instead of vilifying MS to the point of comedic absurdity.

#16033 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:33

Instead of vilifying MS to the point of comedic absurdity.


"comedic absurdity." :rolleyes:
Here is an example of biased characterization of the facts by a Schumacher fan desperate to change the channel on Schumacher's dubious record as noted in the postings above, always consider the source when ascribing weight to an opinion. The value of a Schumacher’s fan’s opinion regarding things critical of Schumacher is often near zero due to massive objectivity failure. There are one or two here who show some shred of balance re things Schumacher but I feel they are the exceptions



#16034 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:39

"comedic absurdity." :rolleyes:
Here is an example of biased characterization of the facts by a Schumacher fan desperate to change the channel on Schumacher's dubious record as noted in the postings above, always consider the source when ascribing weight to an opinion. The value of a Schumacher’s fan’s opinion regarding things critical of Schumacher is often near zero due to massive objectivity failure. There are one or two here who show some shred of balance re things Schumacher but I feel they are the exceptions


Slate, there is nothing you can throw at me that will change my opinion on MS. Grinding old stories again and again is boring, but you posting here endlessly just means one thing: MS is still to be reckoned with. I still say you will have a hard time next season. We will see.


#16035 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:40

We have Rosberg for that!

Ah but that is not proof that Schumacher is/was a bad driver, if we are to take things at face value then all it shows us is that Rosberg is/was better than Schumacher across a certain time period. It is NOT proof that Schumacher is/was a BAD driver. Wayne Rooney outperforming Javier Hernandez across two seasons is not proof that Javier Hernandez is a bad footballer. Rosberg could be the best driver on the grid for all we know (although personally I believe that position to be held by Alonso, just don't let puxanado see that :rotfl: )

#16036 spacekid

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:00

You may be ineterested in knowing that I have NEVER brought up either the Adeleide or the Jerez incidents. I don't need to. My opinion is that Schumacher may have all of the stats to his name, but I do not think he is one of the greats. It is MHO. Of which I am perfectly entitled. I'll state a few of my reasons too, The simple fact that he is unable to come to grips with the Merc, despite all of his talents (of which so many of you ceaselessly bring up over and over again), the fact that for the first time he has a teammate who is not restrained by contractual issues to play second fiddle to him and who has out pointed him the past 2 seasons, his ruthless maneuver on Barrichello and his stopping at the Rascasse at Monaco 2006 after setting the fastest time in qualifying. Not the makings, IMHO, of a great driver. But I give the man credit where credit is due, he brought Ferrari back to a force that was nigh unbeatable and that was his total commitment to the job at hand, that and a fat paycheck. He has had some stellar drives no doubt about that, but so have many others, but as I said, these are my opinons.


Thats fair enough. You don't have to think he's a great driver, no one is forcing you and you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't really explain why you said yourself it makes you happy to spend your free time coming here to wind people up. I actually find it slightly sad you don't have anything better to do, but you achieved what you wanted - you annoyed people, got them to reply to you and made a mess of the thread before you deleted your posts. So well done you.

No, Schumacher has on occaision shown appalling sportsmanship. I don't think anyone could deny that. Monaco 2006 was a real low point. But then he drove a great race afterwards - you take the rough with the smooth and take your pick if you like the guy or not. I just accept that whatever it is that drove him to such dedicated levels of fitness and attention to detail, and the crazy testing he did at the expense of all else in his life... also drives him to 'over compete'. Like I said, no one is forcing you to rate him as a good driver.

Although using his current Merc form to pick holes in the driver he was between '91 and 06 is, IMHO, a very cheap shot at his driving abilties back then. He has faded greatly and is clearly not the driver of his youth. I'm not sure what contractual obligations the likes of Piquet and Brundle were to play second fiddle to Michael, but you obviously know better than me on that.

#16037 spacekid

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:04

Ah but that is not proof that Schumacher is/was a bad driver, if we are to take things at face value then all it shows us is that Rosberg is/was better than Schumacher across a certain time period. It is NOT proof that Schumacher is/was a BAD driver. Wayne Rooney outperforming Javier Hernandez across two seasons is not proof that Javier Hernandez is a bad footballer. Rosberg could be the best driver on the grid for all we know (although personally I believe that position to be held by Alonso, just don't let puxanado see that :rotfl: )


I'm generally inclined to agree with all that. I definately agree that Nando is the best driver on the grid!!

Except to add Javier Hernandez is currently a much better footballer than Pele at the moment, but only a fool would argue that Javier is better than Pele at his peak.

And yet on this thread Nico being a shade better than a 42 year old Schumi is proof that Schumi was never a great driver and always had to depend on subservient team mates and cheating to win races. All of them.

#16038 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:17

Yes



Cheating can be criminal as lots of other peoples money is involved



Yes, Schumacher’s lack of performance against Rosberg is the proof of this




No.




The press was not biased any more for or against Schumacher then they are for any other driver. I find the evidence and comment of experts to be very convincing.




Just because Senna pulled some unsporting moves does not make it ok for Schumacher to do the same, I do not recall any cheating attempts by Senna, Schumacher has tried to cheat several times including winning the 1994 WDC by intentionally hitting his opponent

Disagree that he has changed his spots, He gooned Rubens last year and had to be warned this year via radio to “leave room” translation there is “stop trying to run people off the track” he has not changed at all, just been exposed for the mid packer he really is



Hamilton and Massa tripped over each other several times this season that is true but there was not any intentional contact, very different to what bully boy Schumacher does / did.


Well, thanks for clarification; that's settles for me the question what you think about Michael, and if I had any doubt, that is now all cleared up.

#16039 apar

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:30

Just because Senna pulled some unsporting moves does not make it ok for Schumacher to do the same, I do not recall any cheating attempts by Senna, Schumacher has tried to cheat several times including winning the 1994 WDC by intentionally hitting his opponent

Disagree that he has changed his spots, He gooned Rubens last year and had to be warned this year via radio to “leave room” translation there is “stop trying to run people off the track” he has not changed at all, just been exposed for the mid packer he really is



Senna did MANY unsporting moves and about his cheating attempts you have VERY short memory.


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#16040 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:34

Well, thanks for clarification; that's settles for me the question what you think about Michael, and if I had any doubt, that is now all cleared up.

You are welcome, perhaps you might rethink your support of this driver, I personally watch all the drivers and have been watching Schumacher from the time he started. He is by far the worst offender when it comes to sportsmanship failures and disregard for others safety. Been hoping he would change and drop the dirty driving and cheating BS ...still waiting, not holding my breath however.



#16041 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:36

Senna did MANY unsporting moves and about his cheating attempts you have VERY short memory.


Please elaborate, if you are able.

#16042 ClubmanGT

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:47

Vettel and Red Bull have been involved in controversy. Senna has. Prost has. So has Hill, Mansell, Hamilton and Button. Drivers make mistakes, make headlines, get in trouble. Schumacher took what was already accepted in F1 and took it to its logical extreme. I accept there are is a case to answer for when bad sportsmanship blurs into cheating with MS in some instances, but to apply the same scrutiny equally would result in there being no champions that you cannot say have not made a mistake or an unfair move.

Edited by ClubmanGT, 14 December 2011 - 19:50.


#16043 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:49

USA 2002:
A failed attempt at a “manufactured dead heat”.
Some say it is payback for Austria. Once again, the fans are furious — and of all places, the USA is the one place this should not happen

Thanks for reminding that was good fun rubbing the noses of the others in the utter dominance of Ferrari. :lol:

#16044 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 19:57

Please elaborate, if you are able.



Nearly killed him, utter disregard for Brundle's life. Should have been charged for involuntary manslaughter.

#16045 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:05

Thanks for reminding that was good fun rubbing the noses of the others in the utter dominance of Ferrari. :lol:

It was also helpful in screwing the Indy GP right off the calendar. American fans where not interested in BS racing and this incident tarnished the rep of F1 in America.

#16046 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:10



Nearly killed him, utter disregard for Brundle's life. Should have been charged for involuntary manslaughter.

I was asking for the many cheat attempts by Senna, the ones that never happened, the ones I cannot remember because I have a "VERY" short memory. So what is the excuse for the cheating by Schumacher, can't trot out the old Senna did it excuse on that one. Again just because Senna had one unsporting moment in his career does not mean Schumacher can be excused for a career filled with cheating and goonish driving!

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 20:12.


#16047 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:18

It was also helpful in screwing the Indy GP right off the calendar. American fans where not interested in BS racing and this incident tarnished the rep of F1 in America.

Nah Tony George and faulty Bridgestones Michelins took care of that. :lol:

Amazing finish in 2002, a record breaking .011 between the two Ferraris who were toying with the opposition.
On the other hand a shame Michael gave it away, as with his victories in 03, 04, 05 and 06 would have made it 5 in a row. :up:

Edited by Concorde, 14 December 2011 - 20:59.


#16048 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:31



Nearly killed him, utter disregard for Brundle's life. Should have been charged for involuntary manslaughter.

Just watched the vid …. racing incident... Senna had the momentum went for the inside and MB closed the door. Do you think that this racing incident between Senna and MB somehow excuses Schumacher's intentional ramming and out right cheating? I hope this was a just bad joke on your part?



#16049 MightyMoose

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:32

Senna had 1 unsporting moment in his career? So would that be Japan 1990? That was where he DID win a championship by deliberately - no debate over whether it was deliberate, he admitted it - driving his closest rival off the track.

Or perhaps Japan 1993? Maybe you can compare him punching Irvine to MS's reaction at Spa 98... except where did Senna finish in that race? That's right 1st. So hardly ruined his race did it? Yet still he felt entitled to punch a fellow driver.

Maybe Estoril 1988? Shoving the overtaking driver at the pit wall. Shades of Hungary 2010 there!

How about Japan 1991.... letting his team-mate 'have the win' at the final corner, very demeaning isn't it?????

Haven't even touched base on the many occasions where Senna brake-tested drivers, or weaved them off the road, but you'd not be interested in that because it shows your blinkered hatred for what it is.

There's hardly anyone excusing the MASSIVE list you created, what is pissing people off is your claims of being the better poster purely because you post facts. You wouldn't know a fact if it followed you out of your mums birth canal, sharing your umbilical cord.

You state people are biased whilst ignoring the blatant idiocy of your own position with regard to anything ever achieved by MS. MS is like every single person on the planet, flawed. You clearly take exception to some of those flaws, but inventing more to suit your own agenda is pathetic and more fool you for believing the shite you've been spouting about MS being clearly always crap cos now he's getting whipped by a sub-standard driver.

How about you consider your job done here? You clearly have little new to add so I think we can assume your POV on anything & everything connected to MS for the future as well.

Edited by ForeverF1, 14 December 2011 - 20:35.
Removed "You're a joke Slate, and so are the people responsible for allowing you to post such a flaming stack of turd in any forum."


#16050 ivand911

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:41

You are welcome, perhaps you might rethink your support of this driver, I personally watch all the drivers and have been watching Schumacher from the time he started. He is by far the worst offender when it comes to sportsmanship failures and disregard for others safety. Been hoping he would change and drop the dirty driving and cheating BS ...still waiting, not holding my breath however.

Don't hold your breath about it. :rotfl:
In some more important topic: Who will be next year Petrov? Who will have the closest encounters with MS front wing?
I would go with LRGP boys, RoGro more than Kimi. I mean Kimi will be more careful.

Edited by ivand911, 14 December 2011 - 20:44.