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#16001 spacekid

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 11:43

As we all know Michael Schumacher only ever competed in 4 Grand Prix. 5 if you read the 'Jos says Michael was a cheat in 1994' thread which is largely devoted to his outrageous cheating on the parade lap. And 6 if you go on youtube and discover 'what he did' at Imola 1994. Some Senna 'certainly have a very strange idea of what it is to respect their idol. :rolleyes:

The man has his faults - I have been appalled as anyone at 2 of his actions, really hurt as a fan, but for the love of god after 17 years or whatever can't people let this stuff go?

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#16002 SlateGray

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 19:48

Of course the answer to that is dig up some dirt somewhere, I know I'll start a "Jos says MS cheated back in '94


Schumacher 94

Britain 1994:
Disqualified and banned for two races after failing to take his stop-go penalty for overtaking on the warm-up lap.

Australia 1994:
Crashed into Damon Hill to ensure victory in the 1994 WDC!
With the world championship at stake, Schumacher's Benetton slid wide and into the wall while trying to stay ahead of title rival Damon Hill's Williams.
Schumacher rejoined the track with a damaged car and Hill, who had not seen the German's error, attemped to pass him at the next corner.
Schumacher turned in on the Williams, putting both cars out of the race and sealing his first world title.
Hill wrote in a subsequent book: "There are two things that set Michael apart from the rest of the drivers in Formula One - his sheer talent and his attitude.
I am full of admiration for the former, but the latter leaves me cold."


1994 season:
Suspect software found on the Benetton that Schumacher drove
There were several instances of cheating in the 1994 Formula One season One of the main allegations surrounded the Benetton team.
The team were alleged to have been using illegal software to their advantage in races
Ayrton Senna suspicious that the Benetton car was illegal

Cheating allegations reignited in the summer of 1994, after a refueling fire on Jos Verstappen's Benetton car at the German Grand Prix.
After an investigation by Intertechnique at Benetton's team factory,
the FIA revealed that the team had been using an illegal fuel valve, without a fuel filter, that pumped fuel into the car 12.5% faster than a normal, legal fuel valve that had a filter.

#16003 SlateGray

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 19:54

And do you know what he did in 1997?


Europe 1997:
Drove into Jacques Villeneuve in an attempt to secure the Drivers’ Championship.

“You’ve hit the wrong part of him my friend!” said commentator Martin Brundle.

Sir Frank Williams put Villeneuve’s car on display to show the mark left by Schumacher’s tyre.

The German newspapers were among the many from across Europe that attacked Schumacher.

Bild said:
"Schumacher was to blame for the crash."
"He played for high stakes and lost everything - the World Championship and his reputation for fair play. There is no doubt that he wanted to take out Villeneuve".


The Frankfurter Allgemeine called him:
"a kamikaze without honor"

and commented that the
"monument is starting to crack because the foundations are faulty."


A German TV station asked fans for their views and received the views of 63,081 votes. 28% said they could not support Schumacher any longer.

In Italy there was widespread condemnation of Schumacher.

The daily newspaper Unita called for him to be fired by Ferrari.
"Schumacher ought to face charges in a Spanish court for the grave deed he committed"
it reported.
"The driver covered himself, Ferrari and Italian sport as a whole with shame. We are waiting for Ferrari to announce that it is throwing out Michael Schumacher and hiring a new driver who is more intelligent, has more wisdom and a real sense of morality."


La Repubblica reported that
"seeing a world title vanish after waiting 18 years is sad enough. But to see it go up in smoke with the move from Michael Schumacher is unfortunately much worse. It's shameful."


Gazzetta dello Sport said that if Ferrari had won the title it would have been
"a title to hide"

and said that it preferred to go on waiting for the day when
"our passion for Ferrari has a happy ending."


Even La Stampa, the newspaper owned by the Agnelli family, which also controlled Ferrari, said
"His image as a champion was shattered, like a glass hit by a stone."


In the British newspapers, Schumacher's manoeuvre against Damon Hill at the 1994 Australian Grand Prix was used as a comparison in many of the reports.

The Daily Mail reported that Schumacher had now
"lost the last vestige of his reputation of being a sportsman"


The Times wrote that Schumacher had
"sacrificed his reputation by an act of such cynicism that it lost him the right to any sympathy."


Ferrari hosted a press conference on the Tuesday after Jerez during which Schumacher admitted that he had made a mistake but said it was a misjudgment rather than a deliberate attempt to take out Villeneuve. "I am human like everyone else and unfortunately I made a mistake," he said. "I don't make many but I did this time."

Edited by SlateGray, 13 December 2011 - 20:00.


#16004 jj2728

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 20:06

Buddy, you are a brave brave soul.....I gotta give you that.......Now, lock the gates, pull up the draw bridges and shelter the young uns inside cause I feel a tide of Schumacherites unsheathing their keyboard weaponry and descending upon thee.........

#16005 ivand911

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 20:18

Buddy, you are a brave brave soul.....I gotta give you that.......Now, lock the gates, pull up the draw bridges and shelter the young uns inside cause I feel a tide of Schumacherites unsheathing their keyboard weaponry and descending upon thee.........

I guess Slate catch us in good mood. Doomsday will not happen today. Stop scare the children with MS fans. :rotfl:
P.S.: Not to forget to uncock my keyboard.

Edited by ivand911, 13 December 2011 - 20:23.


#16006 MightyMoose

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 20:22

Buddy, you are a brave brave soul.....I gotta give you that.......Now, lock the gates, pull up the draw bridges and shelter the young uns inside cause I feel a tide of Schumacherites unsheathing their keyboard weaponry and descending upon thee.........

Lol well it is SlateGrey so probably he deserves any flak that flies his way. :kiss:

However, there's no real debate needed over what he posted, it's all quotes, the incidents did occur & certainly Europe 1997 doesn't have much to offer in defence. Anyone who jumps at that one is not being realistic imo.

Where Slatey leaves himself open to justifiable slamming is when he twists the facts & figures to suit his own agenda, whilst ignoring any positive aspect of MS at all costs.



#16007 Math89

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 20:52

@jj2728

Don't think anyone gives a crap. :p

Anyway, I keep thinking it's kinda sad how much time and attention some people give to drivers they don't even like.

Edited by Math89, 13 December 2011 - 20:53.


#16008 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 21:18

Buddy, you are a brave brave soul.....I gotta give you that.......Now, lock the gates, pull up the draw bridges and shelter the young uns inside cause I feel a tide of Schumacherites unsheathing their keyboard weaponry and descending upon thee.........

Instead of making the same post over and over again can you just insert into your signature, please?

Thanks.

#16009 Schumacher7

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 21:30

“You’ve hit the wrong part of him my friend!” said commentator Martin Brundle.

On an inrelated note really I believe it was this quote that made people perceive the incident the way they did, I've seen other angles that make it look like Jacquez Villeneuve's fault, iirc it looked like he locked up and came together with Schumacher.

#16010 cheapracer

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:34

Schumacher 94

Britain 1994:
Disqualified and banned for two races after failing to take his stop-go penalty for overtaking on the warm-up lap.


Yes and that's the only thing he did wrong in 1994 and was punished very severely for it - You have no evidence or proof at all for anything else other than your own opinion which is no greater than anybody else's opinion on this board. In fact before Atlas F1 had a massive thread on the subject (Adelaide) done like a court case (one of many, don't know where they are now?) and found "a racing incident, not provable either way".

Here's a little surprise for you Slate, I was actually more of a Hill fan until that point and clearly remember saying to myself "you idiot, you had him, all you had to do was wait half a lap and you would have blown by him" - but that and more of the same in 1995 lost me with Hill.

1997, great year sadly overshadowed by a stupid incident that MS has publicly stated he regrets, he didn't win the WDC, he was dealt with by the FIA and the right guy did win the WDC so whats the issue? By the way, JV wasn't totally innocent in the incident and many think had MS not hit him he may have gone straight off, watch enough angles of it and that shows up true but everyone is too busy "shocked" at MS's move.

I think your angry cause you didn't get the 16,000 post but knowing you there will still be a chance at 17,000, 18,000 .... as you continue to spout the same dribble.




#16011 cheapracer

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:50

On an inrelated note really I believe it was this quote that made people perceive the incident the way they did, I've seen other angles that make it look like Jacquez Villeneuve's fault, iirc it looked like he locked up and came together with Schumacher.


Show's the level of ability and confidence to make one's own judgement when one has to use a commentator for reference, and yes, JV actually went across the grass locked up and was heading off to the outside of the track - if there was an overhead shot showing just how far off the race line they were people would still rightly criticize MS's action but not as severely.


"Michael Schumacher has stats that speak for themselves, but it is more than mere stats that make a great driver", I'd be howled at,


I'm not a follower of stats but because his stats are so far removed from the next successful drivers, to deny MS himself isn't a good deal responsible for them is denial in itself. Also the longer you are around the harder it is to keep good stats and yet ....

Michael Schumacher has won more than 10% of all the Grand Prix that have ever been run in the entire history of GP since 1950 - that stat alone must say something about his ability. Even next year with 5 other World Champions on the grid I believe he has won more races than all of them put together. I'm sure Slate will check that desperately looking for holes in people's posts :lol:



#16012 Raelene

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:09

On an inrelated note really I believe it was this quote that made people perceive the incident the way they did, I've seen other angles that make it look like Jacquez Villeneuve's fault, iirc it looked like he locked up and came together with Schumacher.



I'm a huge MSC fan....but PLEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSEEEE - MSC did hit him. JV wasn't going to make the corner - MSC should have just let him sail past - but he turned in on him

#16013 Hacklerf

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:29

Like Schumacher was the first person to take/try someone out to win a champtionship

#16014 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:13

Australia 1994 - Hill lunging for a gap that was always closing, it was such an awkward line he took. Monza '95 Hill straight into the back of Schumacher, British GP '95 Hill making a kamikazee move on Schumacher at Priory with no hope in hell of pulling it off as a result both cars are beached. 2 very stupid, stupid errors on Hill's behalf and intentional? I would very much doubt that Hill was not mentally psyched out, due to Adelaide and the comments Schumacher had made on his racing ability, because both incidents were utterly moronic.

Austria 2002 - followed by the European GP where Schumi, who finished 0.1 of a second behind Rubens, was told to maintain position despite being comfortably faster. Also followed by the Hungarian GP where Schumacher finished again within a second and again was comfortably faster than Rubens (his last few laps:- 1m19.564s, 1m19.801s, 1m20.275s, 1m16.207s, 1m20.884s, 1m19.679s. - setting the fastest lap of the race only 5 laps before the end). The point? Rubens was gifted victories by a restrained Schumacher yet bashers will always hark back to Austria without realising the extent to which Rubens was gifted too.

Monte Carlo 2006 & Jerez 1997 are two incidents that I accept can't be justified but the above 2 are very much two incidents that should not mar his career.

#16015 as65p

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:28

Rubens was gifted victories by a restrained Schumacher yet bashers will always hark back to Austria without realising the extent to which Rubens was gifted too.


Because it's irrelevant. Empty gestures, two wrongs don't make a right, and all that.

In fact it only made things worse, proving to what extent things were staged in the Todt era.

#16016 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:33

I'm a huge MSC fan....but PLEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSEEEE - MSC did hit him. JV wasn't going to make the corner - MSC should have just let him sail past - but he turned in on him

The issue is whether this was an accident resulting from extremely hard driving defense, or premeditated attempt to take Vill. out. No one is disputing that collision have taken place. Even today when I see some blocking (from many drivers), and many times I thought that I see Jerez all over again, which si why I give give benefit of doubt. He was not as polished as he is today, and some moves were rough around edges then, which gave to perception about him as discussed today.

Edited by Sakae, 14 December 2011 - 10:33.


#16017 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:54

Because it's irrelevant. Empty gestures, two wrongs don't make a right, and all that.

In fact it only made things worse, proving to what extent things were staged in the Todt era.

I'm clearly talking in the context of Schumacher bashers. So do you agree that Anti-Schumacherites often present the "Bullied Rubens", "Only required team orders to win" & "Disgusting sportsmanship" points?


1. He did not bully Rubens, their relationship was very good whilst they were together at Ferrari.
2. Team orders were rife and are rife in F1 yet if Schumacher benefits from team orders he should be burnt at the stake but if Rubens benefits from team orders no-one says a word and it is lost in history.
3. He acknowledged he didn't deserve the victory during the press conference & during the podium, he was subject to the "maintain position" team orders himself thus gifting Barrichello 2 wins and lest we forget the Indy '02 finish. Poor sportsmanship? Nope, he went and beyond what Rubens deserved.

#16018 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:57

I'm clearly talking in the context of Schumacher bashers. So do you agree that Anti-Schumacherites often present the "Bullied Rubens", "Only required team orders to win" & "Disgusting sportsmanship" points?


1. He did not bully Rubens, their relationship was very good whilst they were together at Ferrari.
2. Team orders were rife and are rife in F1 yet if Schumacher benefits from team orders he should be burnt at the stake but if Rubens benefits from team orders no-one says a word and it is lost in history.
3. He acknowledged he didn't deserve the victory during the press conference & during the podium, he was subject to the "maintain position" team orders himself thus gifting Barrichello 2 wins and lest we forget the Indy '02 finish. Poor sportsmanship? Nope, he went and beyond what Rubens deserved.

Ruben's move in that race was a tipping point for me, when I have lost respect for him. He had several good options how to protest his treatment, and voice his disagreement with the pitwall, but he choose the most embarrassing for the teammate who most likely had no idea what will happen in the front of him in closing moments of the race, and he choose to embarrass his employer as well. This was neither smart, or character building, especially when he knew how SF team operated (and still operates).

#16019 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:31

In fact before Atlas F1 had a massive thread on the subject (Adelaide) done like a court case (one of many, don't know where they are now?) and found "a racing incident, not provable either way".


Sorry the court was completely invalid. One of the judges on that case was a blinkered Schumacher zealot by the name of baddog, you may recognize his postings here in the RC defending Schumacher 100% of the time and criticizing him 0% of the time. You don’t let an advocate for the accused judge the guilt or innocence of same, basic justice 101. The inherent bias and lack of objectivity on that case may be one of the reasons the court was allowed to die.



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#16020 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:33

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

#16021 Jejking

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:51

Sorry the court was completely invalid. One of the judges on that case was a blinkered Schumacher zealot by the name of baddog, you may recognize his postings here in the RC defending Schumacher 100% of the time and criticizing him 0% of the time. You don’t let an advocate for the accused judge the guilt or innocence of same, basic justice 101. The inherent bias and lack of objectivity on that case may be one of the reasons the court was allowed to die.

Wrapped up for the readers: four lines-O-bullshit :stoned:


Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

And Schumacher joined at the Italian Grand Prix two weeks later. What was your point again?

Edited by Jejking, 14 December 2011 - 15:53.


#16022 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 15:54

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

#16023 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:00

Canada 1998:
Forces Frentzen to leave the track by abruptly joining the racing line after a pit stop,
leading to the introduction of the pit lane exit line that cannot be crossed

#16024 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:01

Great memories indeed! :D

#16025 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:10

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

You believe that was Schumacher's idea? If it was then it was a genius move on his part.

#16026 Jejking

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:19

He just executed it. Good tactics of the Ferrariteam by my book.

#16027 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:25

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Damon Hill, the master of mis-judgements and hypocrisy.

#16028 ivand911

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:26

Sorry the court was completely invalid. One of the judges on that case was a blinkered Schumacher zealot by the name of baddog, you may recognize his postings here in the RC defending Schumacher 100% of the time and criticizing him 0% of the time. You don’t let an advocate for the accused judge the guilt or innocence of same, basic justice 101. The inherent bias and lack of objectivity on that case may be one of the reasons the court was allowed to die.

Anyone have link to this great thread , seems the justice was done. :clap:


#16029 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:27

Britain 1998 was a brilliant tactical decision. :clap: :clap:

#16030 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:28

You may be ineterested in knowing that I have NEVER brought up either the Adeleide or the Jerez incidents. I don't need to. My opinion is that Schumacher may have all of the stats to his name, but I do not think he is one of the greats. It is MHO. Of which I am perfectly entitled. I'll state a few of my reasons too, The simple fact that he is unable to come to grips with the Merc, despite all of his talents (of which so many of you ceaselessly bring up over and over again), the fact that for the first time he has a teammate who is not restrained by contractual issues to play second fiddle to him and who has out pointed him the past 2 seasons, his ruthless maneuver on Barrichello and his stopping at the Rascasse at Monaco 2006 after setting the fastest time in qualifying. Not the makings, IMHO, of a great driver. But I give the man credit where credit is due, he brought Ferrari back to a force that was nigh unbeatable and that was his total commitment to the job at hand, that and a fat paycheck. He has had some stellar drives no doubt about that, but so have many others, but as I said, these are my opinons.

The word you're looking for is "Sportsman" considering Rascasse, Jerez & Hungary are not examples and measures of driving skill but of sportsmanship.

#16031 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:31

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

Ohh nice memories, the genius that is Ross Brawn at work. :up:

#16032 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:36

Britain 1998:
Schumacher wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

There was only one party who were at wrong that day and that was the FIA.

#16033 salamin

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 16:51

+1 to silverstone '98 , genius move from MS/Brawn

#16034 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:04

Austria 2000:
Following a shunt, Schumacher manoeuvres his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged and re-started

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 17:05.


#16035 ivand911

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:04

Schumacher becomes candidate for football Chairman
http://www.gpupdate....tball-chairman/

#16036 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:07

EUROPEAN GRAND PRIX 2001:
Even Ralf felt the sheer force of his dirt
Michael Schumacher made a poor start to the 2001 European Grand Prix at Germany's Nurburgring, while brother Ralf was much faster away in his Williams.
To stop his brother passing, Michael veered across the track at him, leaving Ralf with the choice of backing off or risk being forced into the wall.
He backed off.

#16037 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:07

The word you're looking for is "Sportsman" considering Rascasse, Jerez & Hungary are not examples and measures of driving skill but of sportsmanship.


Yes amongst other things sportsman is correct and IMHO this is one of the reasons I do not think he is one of the greats.

#16038 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:12

Yes amongst other things sportsman is correct and IMHO this is one of the reasons I do not think he is one of the greats.

And evaluating him as a driver is not amongst those things. Clearly you're unable to differentiate between a driver's racing skills and his fair play.

#16039 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:12

Slategray these thing you're saying aren't proof he was a bad driver, you do realise that don't you? Instead they show an intelligence on the track and a strong desire to win which are the two main reasons I support him. The more you post the higher I rate him.

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#16040 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:20

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

#16041 ForeverF1

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:23

Posts deleted. Please, discuss the points put forward, not the poster. Thanks.

#16042 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:24

Slategray these thing you're saying aren't proof he was a bad driver,

We have Rosberg for that!

#16043 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:26

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

Yes, he did. This had never happened before or after in any team, be that Ferrari of recent time, Hill at Williams, McLaren...

OK, what else you have?

Edited by Sakae, 14 December 2011 - 17:26.


#16044 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:28

We have Rosberg for that!

Shouldn't that be Schumacher IS a bad driver, rather than WAS a bad driver?

#16045 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:32

Here is the complete list from Slategray.

The replies to that post show how much this list is worth :

Like taking candy from a baby!

A a partial lit of Schumacher's dirty deeds....

Britain 1994:
Disqualified and banned for two races after failing to take his stop-go penalty for overtaking on the warm-up lap.

Australia 1994:
Crashed into Damon Hill to ensure victory in the 1994 WDC!
With the world championship at stake, Schumacher's Benetton slid wide and into the wall while trying to stay ahead of title rival Damon Hill's Williams.
Schumacher rejoined the track with a damaged car and Hill, who had not seen the German's error, attemped to pass him at the next corner.
Schumacher turned in on the Williams, putting both cars out of the race and sealing his first world title.
Hill wrote in a subsequent book: "There are two things that set Michael apart from the rest of the drivers in Formula One - his sheer talent and his attitude.
I am full of admiration for the former, but the latter leaves me cold."


1994 season:
Suspect software found on the Benetton that Schumacher drove
There were several instances of cheating in the 1994 Formula One season One of the main allegations surrounded the Benetton team.
The team were alleged to have been using illegal software to their advantage in races
Ayrton Senna suspicious that the Benetton car was illegal

1994 season:
Cheating allegations reignited in the summer of 1994, after a refueling fire on Jos Verstappen's Benetton car at the German Grand Prix.
After an investigation by Intertechnique at Benetton's team factory,
the FIA revealed that the team had been using an illegal fuel valve, without a fuel filter, that pumped fuel into the car 12.5% faster than a normal, legal fuel valve that had a filter.

Belgium 1995:
Blocking moves lead to the introduction of the ‘one move’ agreement where drivers can only move once to prevent being overtaken
Schumacher's performance did not impress Hill after his defensive moves forced Hill to either back off or go off the track.
Schumacher claimed that he had only blocked Hill at the low-speed corners, but video evidence suggested that Schumacher had blocked Hill on some of the high speed corners, such as the Radillion and Blanchimont.
Hill later commented that "We had some pretty hairy moments and I am not satisfied with being driven into; I don't think that was acceptable.
That is all well and good but if it was meant on purpose I would be very upset, F1 cars are not go-karts.
I think there are some things which are acceptable and some things which are not."

Schumacher defended himself by agreeing that touching wheels in high-speed corners is "not acceptable" but added that at the speed he and Hill were doing, he thought it was acceptable.
Schumacher was given a one-race suspended ban for driving aggressively in order to stop Hill from passing.

Europe 1997:
Drove into Jacques Villeneuve in an attempt to secure the Drivers’ Championship.
“You’ve hit the wrong part of him my friend!,” said commentator Martin Brundle.
Sir Frank Williams put Villeneuve’s car on display to show the mark left by Schumacher’s tyre.
The German newspapers were among the many from across Europe that attacked Schumacher.
Bild said "Schumacher was to blame for the crash." "He played for high stakes and lost everything - the World Championship and his reputation for fair play.
There is no doubt that he wanted to take out Villeneuve".

The Frankfurter Allgemeine called him "a kamikaze without honor" and commented that the "monument is starting to crack because the foundations are faulty."
A German TV station asked fans for their views and received the views of 63,081 votes. 28% said they could not support Schumacher any longer.
In Italy there was widespread condemnation of Schumacher.
The daily newspaper Unita called for him to be fired by Ferrari. "Schumacher ought to face charges in a Spanish court for the grave deed he committed" it reported. "The driver covered himself, Ferrari and Italian sport as a whole with shame. We are waiting for Ferrari to announce that it is throwing out Michael Schumacher and hiring a new driver who is more intelligent, has more wisdom and a real sense of morality."
La Repubblica reported that "seeing a world title vanish after waiting 18 years is sad enough. But to see it go up in smoke with the move from Michael Schumacher is unfortunately much worse. It's shameful."
Gazzetta dello Sport said that if Ferrari had won the title it would have been "a title to hide" and said that it preferred to go on waiting for the day when "our passion for Ferrari has a happy ending."
Even La Stampa, the newspaper owned by the Agnelli family, which also controlled Ferrari, said "His image as a champion was shattered, like a glass hit by a stone."
In the British newspapers, Schumacher's manoeuvre against Damon Hill at the 1994 Australian Grand Prix was used as a comparison in many of the reports.
The Daily Mail reported that Schumacher had now "lost the last vestige of his reputation of being a sportsman"
and The Times wrote that Schumacher had "sacrificed his reputation by an act of such cynicism that it lost him the right to any sympathy."
Ferrari hosted a press conference on the Tuesday after Jerez during which Schumacher admitted that he had made a mistake but said it was a misjudgment rather than a deliberate attempt to take out Villeneuve. "I am human like everyone else and unfortunately I made a mistake," he said. "I don't make many but I did this time."

Britain 1998:
Wins the race in the pit lane by taking his stop–go penalty after crossing the finish line.
May be tecnecially legal but as is typical with Schumacher he was happy to win outside the bounderies of fair play

Canada 1998:
Forces Frentzen to leave the track by abruptly joining the racing line after a pit stop,
leading to the introduction of the pit lane exit line that cannot be crossed

Austria 2000:
Following a shunt, manoeuvres his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged and re-started

EUROPEAN GRAND PRIX 2001:
Even Ralf felt the sheer force of his dirt
Michael Schumacher made a poor start to the 2001 European Grand Prix at Germany's Nurburgring, while brother Ralf was much faster away in his Williams.
To stop his brother passing, Michael veered across the track at him, leaving Ralf with the choice of backing off or risk being forced into the wall.
He backed off.

Austria 2001:
Team-mate Rubens Barrichello forced by Ferrari to pull over to let Schumacher through on the last corner

Germany 2001:
Once again moves his car into a dangerous position in an attempt to get the race red-flagged — this time successfully

Austria 2002:

Barrichello again forced to let Schumacher pass on the final corner — this time for the win.
The spectators were furious. This leads to the “ban” on team orders

USA 2002:
A failed attempt at a “manufactured dead heat”.
Some say it is payback for Austria. Once again, the fans are furious — and of all places, the USA is the one place this should not happen

Europe 2003:
Successfully encourages track marshals to push his beached car back on to the race track
recklessly endangering the lives of said marshals for his own personal gain.

BRITISH GRAND PRIX 2003:
Trying to defend his position from Renault driver Fernando Alonso on the opening lap, Schumacher moved across on the Spaniard at the fastest part of the track.
Although Alonso did not back off, Schumacher continued to move across, forcing half the Renault on to the grass at 190mph.
He escaped punishment.

Australia 2005:
Yet again helped out by marshals who choose to ignore Nick Heidfeld who is also beached.

Monaco 2006:
Rascassegate
Again blocking track in the Q to try to gain advantage for himself
Outrage abounds and Schumacher is put to the back for the race start

Hungary 2010:
Schumacher's aggressive driving in attempting to prevent Barrichello from overtaking drew strong criticism from commentators and former drivers, including triple World Champion Niki Lauda and former Schumacher team-mates Eddie Irvine and Martin Brundle.
Triple World Champion Jackie Stewart commented "We are never more than a millimetre away from something awful happening and for Schumacher to do what he did with Rubens Barrichello is just inviting disaster. ... It was one of the most blatant abuses of another driver that I have seen. It is a terrible example from a man who has seven world titles, bully-boy tactics."
Schumacher publicly defended his actions after the race and in the Stewards' hearing. Derek Warwick, one of the stewards for the race, commented that Schumacher could have been shown the black flag, resulting in an instant disqualification, had there been more time left in the race for the stewards to review the video evidence

2011:
To be continued.... lets hope everyone escapes Schumachers tactics in good health


http://en.wikipedia.org
http://autosport.com
http://forums.autosport.com
http://www.pitpass.com
http://www.grandprix.com/
http://doctorvee.co....hael-schumacher
http://news.bbc.co.u...one/5024532.stm



#16046 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:35

OK, what else you have?


USA 2002:
A failed attempt at a “manufactured dead heat”.
Some say it is payback for Austria. Once again, the fans are furious — and of all places, the USA is the one place this should not happen

#16047 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:41

Shouldn't that be Schumacher IS a bad driver, rather than WAS a bad driver?

No teammate benchmark for "was" because of Schumacher's insistence that his teammate not be allowed to compete with him at the time, a luxury he no longer enjoys, so we have no way to be sure. I feel Rubens would have done as well or better if the team orders at Ferrari had been reversed.



#16048 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:55

The replies to that post show how much this list is worth :

What a bunch of hard core Schumacher fans think may be just the slightest bit biased, so you may want to consider the source when gauging their reaction to the list of Schumacher's dirty deeds.
Please point out any inaccuracies or errors or typos in the list, otherwise I will assume that you are in 100% agreement with the points made.

Cheers



#16049 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 17:57

I am not sure SlateGray what you are saying; is it that Schumacher is a flawed human being, cheater, criminal, substandard driver ...? Can you summarize it once for all into couple of sentences? For me rehashing bad decisions taken in different era, just as submission of sensational headlines from hostile and bias press as a "proof" of Schumacher's guilt is not very convincing.

Schumacher came on the race track of hard moves by Senna and alike. He, admittedly, was a hard young man himself, which seems cought many people by surprise. None of it is tolerated today, and in time he has polished his grasp of English and race craft to different levels, but in reality it is still the same man; trust me on that.

I saw in 2011 several moves between Massa and Hamilton which could ended up as any of accidents Schumacher had, but luckilly they did not. I am not asking you to like him or whatever, but I am trying to tell you, that we have in here different perception on events of the past, and it seems that after decade of writing about it, not too many will change their minds one way or another.

#16050 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 18:23

I am not sure SlateGray what you are saying; is it that Schumacher is a flawed human being,


Yes

criminal,



Cheating can be criminal as lots of other peoples money is involved

substandard driver ...?



Yes, Schumacher’s lack of performance against Rosberg is the proof of this

Can you summarize it once for all into couple of sentences?




No.

For me rehashing bad decisions taken in different era, just as submission of sensational headlines from hostile and bias press as a "proof" of Schumacher's guilt is not very convincing.




The press was not biased any more for or against Schumacher then they are for any other driver. I find the evidence and comment of experts to be very convincing.


Schumacher came on the race track of hard moves by Senna and alike. He, admittedly, was a hard young man himself, which seems cought many people by surprise. None of it is tolerated today, and in time he has polished his grasp of English and race craft to different levels, but in reality it is still the same man; trust me on that.


Just because Senna pulled some unsporting moves does not make it ok for Schumacher to do the same, I do not recall any cheating attempts by Senna, Schumacher has tried to cheat several times including winning the 1994 WDC by intentionally hitting his opponent

Disagree that he has changed his spots, He gooned Rubens last year and had to be warned this year via radio to “leave room” translation there is “stop trying to run people off the track” he has not changed at all, just been exposed for the mid packer he really is

I saw in 2011 several moves between Massa and Hamilton which could ended up as any of accidents Schumacher had, but luckilly they did not. I am not asking you to like him or whatever, but I am trying to tell you, that we have in here different perception on events of the past, and it seems that after decade of writing about it, not too many will change their minds one way or another.


Hamilton and Massa tripped over each other several times this season that is true but there was not any intentional contact, very different to what bully boy Schumacher does / did.