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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#16051 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:52

Nah Tony George and faulty Bridgestones took care of that. :lol:

Amazing finish in 2002, a record breaking .011 between the two Ferraris who were toying with the opposition.
On the other hand a shame Michael gave it away, as with his victories in 03, 04, 05 and 06 would have made it 5 in a row. :up:

It was the Michelins that had problems the Bridgestone tires where fine. Don’t expect Schumacher fans to have the facts correct, case in point.
So playing silly bugger with the finishing order was helpful to F1 somehow?
:rolleyes:



Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 20:53.


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#16052 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:57

It was the Michelins that had problems the Bridgestone tires where fine. Don’t expect Schumacher fans to have the facts correct, case in point.
So playing silly bugger with the finishing order was helpful to F1 somehow?
:rolleyes:


You are right, see even a stopped clock like you gets it right sometimes.  ;)
I'll edit like you just did.

#16053 apar

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 20:58

Please elaborate, if you are able.



Do yout think it seriously?

Senna´s dirty moves on Prost, Mansell, Schumacher etc... are well know. His blocking in qualifyings are well know too (after he have drove pole postion he drove slow on circuit and blocked opponents.... etc....


#16054 apar

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:00

Senna had 1 unsporting moment in his career? So would that be Japan 1990? That was where he DID win a championship by deliberately - no debate over whether it was deliberate, he admitted it - driving his closest rival off the track.

Or perhaps Japan 1993? Maybe you can compare him punching Irvine to MS's reaction at Spa 98... except where did Senna finish in that race? That's right 1st. So hardly ruined his race did it? Yet still he felt entitled to punch a fellow driver.

Maybe Estoril 1988? Shoving the overtaking driver at the pit wall. Shades of Hungary 2010 there!

How about Japan 1991.... letting his team-mate 'have the win' at the final corner, very demeaning isn't it?????

Haven't even touched base on the many occasions where Senna brake-tested drivers, or weaved them off the road, but you'd not be interested in that because it shows your blinkered hatred for what it is.

There's hardly anyone excusing the MASSIVE list you created, what is pissing people off is your claims of being the better poster purely because you post facts. You wouldn't know a fact if it followed you out of your mums birth canal, sharing your umbilical cord.

You state people are biased whilst ignoring the blatant idiocy of your own position with regard to anything ever achieved by MS. MS is like every single person on the planet, flawed. You clearly take exception to some of those flaws, but inventing more to suit your own agenda is pathetic and more fool you for believing the shite you've been spouting about MS being clearly always crap cos now he's getting whipped by a sub-standard driver.

How about you consider your job done here? You clearly have little new to add so I think we can assume your POV on anything & everything connected to MS for the future as well.


Great post :wave:


#16055 MightyMoose

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:02

It was the Michelins that had problems the Bridgestone tires where fine. Don’t expect Schumacher fans to have the facts correct, case in point.
So playing silly bugger with the finishing order was helpful to F1 somehow?
:rolleyes:


If that's the case, it's clear you're a closest MS fan, cos your grasp of the FACTS is weaker than an arthritic snails movements.

Classy move to seize on 1 unfortunate slip of memory by Concorde and use it to group everyone together!

PS - can someone quote this please, I believe Slatey won't see it otherwise :kiss:

Edit : Thanks Apar. It wasn't that great, I regrettably did overstep the mark with 1 sentence, but it's all cleared with the mods I believe and much to Slatey's chagrin, I'll be here for a while longer to call him out on his random facts :cool:

Edited by MightyMoose, 14 December 2011 - 21:04.


#16056 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:03

And evaluating him as a driver is not amongst those things. Clearly you're unable to differentiate between a driver's racing skills and his fair play.


IMHO it is. And yes I am able to differntiate, who are you to say that I am not? What makes you the expert on other people's opinions?

#16057 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:04

I was asking for the many cheat attempts by Senna, the ones that never happened, the ones I cannot remember because I have a "VERY" short memory. So what is the excuse for the cheating by Schumacher, can't trot out the old Senna did it excuse on that one. Again just because Senna had one unsporting moment in his career does not mean Schumacher can be excused for a career filled with cheating and goonish driving!

One unsporting moment? I hope this is a bad joke on your behalf.

#16058 apar

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:04

Schumacher has only one serious dirty attack in his life - Jerez97. He regret it many times, he apologized for it many teams. His other "crimes" are only fantasies of Schumi-haters" ...
Senna never apologized for Suzuka 1990....




#16059 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:06

IMHO it is. And yes I am able to differntiate, who are you to say that I am not? What makes you the expert on other people's opinions?

Someone who is able to clearly differentiate between driving skills and sportsmanship.

Btw as one wise man said on this board, "this is a forum, and on forums the general jist is that people have opinions on opinions of others".

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#16060 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:06

Yes, he did. This had never happened before or after in any team, be that Ferrari of recent time, Hill at Williams, McLaren...

OK, what else you have?


Let me get this right, are you saying that no driver prior to Austria was told to move over and let his teammate through?
If that is what you are saying you'd best check your history and your facts.

#16061 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:07

Just watched the vid …. racing incident... Senna had the momentum went for the inside and MB closed the door. Do you think that this racing incident between Senna and MB somehow excuses Schumacher's intentional ramming and out right cheating? I hope this was a just bad joke on your part?

Who has he rammed?

#16062 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:10

Someone who is able to clearly differentiate between driving skills and sportsmanship.


IMHO, when I consider a great driver I take everything that he accomplishes on track as a whole, his race craft, his ethics ie., 'sportsmanship' etc., etc., maybe others don't, but that is how I do it.

#16063 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:13

Do yout think it seriously?

Senna´s dirty moves on Prost, Mansell, Schumacher etc... are well know. His blocking in qualifyings are well know too (after he have drove pole postion he drove slow on circuit and blocked opponents.... etc....

So not able then, suspected as much.

How about just one example of cheating from Senna, you know like illegal traction control, blocking (parking on) the track during the Q, using illegal fuel rigs and endangering everyone in the pit lane as a result ... like those examples of Schumacher's cheating. Oh and don't forget the lies after the fact, those are always entertaining. I would love to see the list of Senna’s cheats and lies, please humor us, the events you suggest are common knowledge among F1 fans are a mystery to me, but then I have only been following F1 from 1977 so I may have missed them. Your efforts will me much appreciated. Thanks in advance



#16064 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:15

IMHO, when I consider a great driver I take everything that he accomplishes on track as a whole, his race craft, his ethics ie., 'sportsmanship' etc., etc., maybe others don't, but that is how I do it.

Others don't because it's not the right way. Michael Schumacher is a fantastic driver but a so-so sportsman. Driver = Driving Skills/Sportsman = Sportsmanship

#16065 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:17

You are right, see even a stopped clock like you gets it right sometimes. ;)
I'll edit like you just did.

I ask again. was playing silly bugger with the finishing order helpful to F1 somehow?




#16066 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:21

Others don't because it's not the right way. Michael Schumacher is a fantastic driver but a so-so sportsman. Driver = Driving Skills/Sportsman = Sportsmanship


Who are you to say it's the right or the wrong way? Is there a book or guideline available on rating drivers? Is there a fixed set of rules regarding how one decides in his opinion who he thinks is a great or not great driver? There's not, there is no right or wrong way of giving an opinion on how one rates a driver.

#16067 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:30

I ask again. was playing silly bugger with the finishing order helpful to F1 somehow?

Dunno, saw no detriment init unless you're a silly hatebeard  ;)
Still a shame Michael gave that one away, he could have won 5 years on the trot.

#16068 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:32

IMHO, when I consider a great driver I take everything that he accomplishes on track as a whole, his race craft, his ethics ie., 'sportsmanship' etc., etc., maybe others don't, but that is how I do it.

As do I, this is why I have little regard for Schumacher. I value sportsmanship and honesty more then driving talent. Rosberg has given us the answer on the talent side anyway so that leaves nothing at all for me to admire about Schumacher.



#16069 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:32

Dunno, saw no detriment init unless you're a silly hatebeard


Then you were not at Indy in 2002

#16070 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:39

Dunno, saw no detriment init unless you're a silly hatebeard ;)
Still a shame Michael gave that one away, he could have won 5 years on the trot.

So all the outrage from the fans was just "hatebeard" and this example of crassness from Schumacher was 100% ok in your book is that correct?

#16071 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:39

Who are you to say it's the right or the wrong way? Is there a book or guideline available on rating drivers? Is there a fixed set of rules regarding how one decides in his opinion who he thinks is a great or not great driver? There's not, there is no right or wrong way of giving an opinion on how one rates a driver.

What a silly, silly post. Read a dictionary, there are informal guidelines all around us. Going by your post no-one in this world is right or wrong, no-one has ever been right or wrong and no-one is able to say who is right or wrong.

#16072 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:40

As do I, this is why I have little regard for Schumacher. I value sportsmanship and honesty more then driving talent. Rosberg has given us the answer on the talent side anyway so that leaves nothing at all for me to admire about Schumacher.

Who are your 3 favourite drivers?

#16073 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:44

Who are your 3 favourite drivers?

Joseph Gilles Henri Villeneuve
Jacques Joseph Charles Villeneuve
Nico Erik Rosberg

#16074 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:46

Let me get this right, are you saying that no driver prior to Austria was told to move over and let his teammate through?
If that is what you are saying you'd best check your history and your facts.

You have obviously missed sarkasm in my tone. All references listed did the same thing - maybe more tuned down, but nevertheless admitted later on. It's just that rascal Rubena made a really show out of it in Austria, and the others did not. Point was, SlateGray knows that, yet he is on Schumacher case, while conveniently ignores the others.


BTW, you are probably not too great over puzzles, are you?

#16075 Math89

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:46

DutchCrujff now digging the internet for dirt on those three drivers. :p

#16076 ClubmanGT

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:48

Just watched the vid …. racing incident... Senna had the momentum went for the inside and MB closed the door. Do you think that this racing incident between Senna and MB somehow excuses Schumacher's intentional ramming and out right cheating? I hope this was a just bad joke on your part?


Cool, if we're following this logic, Damon Hill has a problem where he sticks two wheels inside a kerb and the white lines and expects other drivers to get out of his way. See where his car is in Adelaide when Schumacher turns in, yet manages to turn in and be on the racing line before contact. That should tell you how far off track on the inside Hill had gone.

I have no qualms with trolling you because I'm pretty sure this thread will end up a whole lot shorter once a mod takes a gander in here.

#16077 Sakae

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:48

Joseph Gilles Henri Villeneuve
Jacques Joseph Charles Villeneuve
Nico Erik Rosberg

I would add Tim Horton to that list.

#16078 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:53

DutchCrujff now digging the internet for dirt on those three drivers. :p

Results should prove interesting, very clean those three and two of the three have had the distinct pleasure of besting Schumacher on the track toe to toe where it counts. Will a third season of loss at the hands of Rosberg convince the die hards of Schumacher's actual talent level?

#16079 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:54

So all the outrage from the fans was just "hatebeard" and this example of crassness from Schumacher was 100% ok in your book is that correct?

"Outrage" how OTT, a few yanks not understanding the sport and Michael happily winning the event 4 years on the trot after that.
Can't see the problem but thanks for rekindling the happy memories. :up:

Looking forward to Austin next year, would be awesome to see Michael win that one too.

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#16080 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:55

I would add Tim Horton to that list.

Hockey Player, drunk driver (resulting in his own death), abusive of women. I would leave him off the list myself

#16081 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:57

Results should prove interesting, very clean those three and two of the three have had the distinct pleasure of besting Schumacher on the track toe to toe where it counts. Will a third season of loss at the hands of Rosberg convince the die hards of Schumacher's actual talent level?

2 whingers who Schumacher over-shadowed and got under the skin of, might as well add Rubens Barrichello to that list.

#16082 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 21:59

"Outrage" how OTT, a few yanks not understanding the sport and Michael happily winning the event 4 years on the trot after that.
Can't see the problem but thanks for rekindling the happy memories. :up:

Looking forward to Austin next year, would be awesome to see Michael win that one too.

So outside the U.S.A F1 fans are happy when drivers mess with the natural finishing order because they have a much better understanding of F1? Is that your point? Austria for example? :rolleyes:

#16083 Math89

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:00

Results should prove interesting, very clean those three and two of the three have had the distinct pleasure of besting Schumacher on the track toe to toe where it counts. Will a third season of loss at the hands of Rosberg convince the die hards of Schumacher's actual talent level?


No.

For all I care he can ride a threewheeler bike with an orange flag and a big horn on it next season. I would stil be a fan of the man.

Part of being a fan is rooting for your man even when it isn't going the way you would hope. That's what being a fan is about and is what makes it fun.


#16084 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:02

2 whingers who Schumacher over-shadowed and got under the skin of, might as well add Rubens Barrichello to that list.


Rosberg is crushing Schumacher so it cannot be him!
Gilles never raced against Schumacher so it can't be him!
Jacques beat Schumacher to the WDC the only time they both had cars capable so it can't be him!

So who exactly did Schumacher "overshadow" :lol:

#16085 Concorde

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:04

Austria for example? :rolleyes:

Thanks, another great victory to remember. :up:

The ultimate professionalism by Jean Todt and his team.

#16086 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:08

Rosberg is crushing Schumacher so it cannot be him!
Gilles never raced against Schumacher so it can't be him!
Jacques beat Schumacher to the WDC the only time they both had cars capable so it can't be him!

So who exactly did Schumacher "overshadow" :lol:

You do realise that to over-shadow does not necessarily entail one driver beating the other?

#16087 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:18

You do realise that to over-shadow does not necessarily entail one driver beating the other?

So he overshadowed them by losing to them or not even driving in the same era? Please do tell how the vanquished Schumacher overshadowed the victors?

#16088 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:20

a few yanks not understanding the sport
Can't see the problem

So outside the U.S.A F1 fans are happy when drivers mess with the natural finishing order because they have a much better understanding of F1? Is that your point?






#16089 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:27

You have obviously missed sarkasm in my tone. All references listed did the same thing - maybe more tuned down, but nevertheless admitted later on. It's just that rascal Rubena made a really show out of it in Austria, and the others did not. Point was, SlateGray knows that, yet he is on Schumacher case, while conveniently ignores the others.


BTW, you are probably not too great over puzzles, are you?


Personal insults aside. yes I did miss the OBVIOUS sarcasm in your post. And you'd still better read up on your history, there have been many incidents of drivers being forced to move over and or give over their cars and have been very public in not being too happy about it....

BTW, you're not too good with your intended sarcasm....best your practice a bit before playing with the adults.....

#16090 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:31

I have no qualms with trolling you because I'm pretty sure this thread will end up a whole lot shorter once a mod takes a gander in here.


Yeah, well it's you Schumacher boys who result to insults and name calling and such and only because, as I said before, there are some of us who do NOT think he is a great driver let alone the greatest and we do NOT worship at his kneecaps.....

#16091 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 22:36

So he overshadowed them by losing to them or not even driving in the same era? Please do tell how the vanquished Schumacher overshadowed the victors?

In the case of Jacques, it was due to Schumi being a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...was Jacques still in F1 come 2004? And a 7 x WDC. Also due to Schumacher only narrowingly being beaten despite Jacques having the best car of the field in his hands. AND also due to Jacques...sorry, Schumi being able to drive in the wet.

In the case of Rosberg? Schumacher being Schumacher. 7xWDC, 40+ and still providing ample evidence that he is more than a match for young Nico and actually having won a race.

#16092 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:00

still providing ample evidence that he is more than a match for young Nico and actually having won a race.


So taking a beating from Rosberg two years in a row makes him "more then a match" for Rosberg, how do you figure ?

Up is down and black is white?

I would like to say something positive about Schumacher, like he makes a good #2 for Rosberg but Schumacher is to slow to be a good #2 so never mind that.

Any bets on next season between Rosberg and Schumacher?
I will change my avatar to one of your chooseing if Schumacher gets more points then Rosberg in 2012, if you are willing to use an avatar of my choosing if Rosberg gets more points then Schumacher for a third time in a row. Assuming both drivers start all the races, if one is hurt of otherwise not able to start every race then the bet will be off. Just total points gets the victory cuz I can't stand the if's and buts when Schumacher gets bested. What say you?

This offer is just for you DutchCruijff others need not apply!

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 23:10.


#16093 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:04

So taking a beating from Rosberg two years in a row makes him "more then a match" for Rosberg, how do you figure ?

Up is down and black is white?

I would like to say something positive about Schumacher, like he makes a good #2 for Rosberg but Schumacher is to slow to be a good #2 so never mind that.

Any bets on next season between Rosberg and Schumacher?
I will change my avatar to one of your chooseing if Schumacher gets more points then Rosberg in 2012, if you are willing to use an avatar of my choosing if Rosberg gets more points then Schumacher for a third time in a row. Assuming both drivers start all the races, if one is hurt of otherwise not able to start every race then the bet will be off. Just total points gets the victory cuz I can't stand the if's and buts when Schumacher gets bested. What say you?



you're on

#16094 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:08

So taking a beating from Rosberg two years in a row makes him "more then a match" for Rosberg, how do you figure ?

Up is down and black is white?

I would like to say something positive about Schumacher, like he makes a good #2 for Rosberg but Schumacher is to slow to be a good #2 so never mind that.

Any bets on next season between Rosberg and Schumacher?
I will change my avatar to one of your chooseing if Schumacher gets more points then Rosberg in 2012, if you are willing to use an avatar of my choosing if Rosberg gets more points then Schumacher for a third time in a row. Assuming both drivers start all the races, if one is hurt of otherwise not able to start every race then the bet will be off. Just total points gets the victory cuz I can't stand the if's and buts when Schumacher gets bested. What say you?

Have you watched the races and noticed Schumacher's edge over Rosberg in terms of race pace or do you settle down to watch Quali to prevent the pain of Rosberg inevitably falling back during the race?

I prefer the rat picture actually and I'm sure Szoelloe will have a very suitable picture once Schumacher will DEFINITELY beat Rosberg.

#16095 jj2728

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:09

So taking a beating from Rosberg two years in a row makes him "more then a match" for Rosberg, how do you figure ?
Up is down and black is white?


You must understand that some peoples' perceptions of facts can be skewed and twisted if they wish and hope long enough and don't forget that 1 + 1 = 3

#16096 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:12

Have you watched the races and noticed Schumacher's edge over Rosberg in terms of race pace or do you settle down to watch Quali to prevent the pain of Rosberg inevitably falling back during the race?

I prefer the rat picture actually and I'm sure Szoelloe will have a very suitable picture once Schumacher will DEFINITELY beat Rosberg.

The offer is only for you, no others included, are you up for it?
Perhaps we should set a time frame for using the victors avatar, the entire off season between 2012 and 2013??

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 23:14.


#16097 salamin

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:13

don't take it, this avatar just fits him right

#16098 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:14

The offer is only for you, no others included, are you up for it?

Yes, I do have a gripe with your picture being too small. Something has to be done about that for sure.

#16099 TheBunk

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:18

So taking a beating from Rosberg two years in a row makes him "more then a match" for Rosberg, how do you figure ?

Up is down and black is white?

I would like to say something positive about Schumacher, like he makes a good #2 for Rosberg but Schumacher is to slow to be a good #2 so never mind that.



This offer is just for you DutchCruijff others need not apply!


You dont think Schumacher has earned enough stripes to have a lesser season? 91 wins vs zero wins Rosberg? God, Im curious how youd rate Massa vs his teammate.



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#16100 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:21

Yes, I do have a gripe with your picture being too small. Something has to be done about that for sure.


So it is agreed.
If Rosberg gets more points then Schumacher you change your avatar to one of my choosing
If Schumacher gets more points then Rosberg I change my avatar to one of your choosing
On condition that:
Both drivers start every race in the 2012 season.
Tie in points = a tie and we both keep our avatars as is!

You cool with this?

:)

PS don't worry about the little rat he will not be going anywhere! ;)