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#16101 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:22

I am cool with this.

And don't worry about the rat, it really is not going anywhere. :rotfl:

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#16102 baddog

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:27

I will change my avatar to one of your chooseing if Schumacher gets more points then Rosberg in 2012, if you are willing to use an avatar of my choosing if Rosberg gets more points then Schumacher for a third time in a row.

Oh dude I have the BEST avatar for you. end of 2012 should be nice ;)

(Also, per your comments about me earlier.. People with a lot more independence and rational judgement than you were happy enough to accept that I put aside preconceptions in that case, which I did. I was perfectly willing to rule as the evidence presented in the case indicated whatever it showed, and did so even though the final judgement was not in line with my pre-existing view. There was also another judge who actually wrote the judgement. You however had and have no interest in an examination of the facts from an impartial angle, so stop pretending that is what you wanted.)

#16103 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:32

You dont think Schumacher has earned enough stripes to have a lesser season? 91 wins vs zero wins Rosberg? God, Im curious how youd rate Massa vs his teammate.


0 wins for Schumacher as Rosberg's teammate
0 season victories over Rosberg as teammates
Very much slower in the Q then Rosberg
More unforced errors then Rosberg

How do you see that as better?

Massa had flashes of greatness and was looking really good until he got that spring in the forhead, he has not been as good after that, Alonso is much better, does anyone doubt that?

#16104 Jejking

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:33

Rosberg is crushing Schumacher so it cannot be him!
Gilles never raced against Schumacher so it can't be him!
Jacques beat Schumacher to the WDC the only time they both had cars capable so it can't be him!

So who exactly did Schumacher "overshadow" :lol:

Can't be G Villeneuve. Must be Rosberg then.

2006: MSC - ROS | 121-4
2010: MSC - ROS | 72-142
2011: MSC - ROS | 76-89

Net loss for Rosberg: 34. Autsj.

MSC - VIL, interesting. 1996, -19. 1997, -3. 1998, +65. 2000, +91. 2001, +111. 2002, +140. 2005, +53. Net loss for Villeneuve, 529. Oof matey.

Edited by Jejking, 14 December 2011 - 23:34.


#16105 Schumacher7

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:34

....best your practice a bit before playing with the adults.....

Mate, seriously? Not trying to be funny here but you not picking up on someone's sarcasm doesn't make them bad at it and implying someone is a child is ridiculous.

Nico Erik Rosberg

You say he's one of your favourite drivers yet say him beating a team mate by 13 points is proof that said team mate is terrible, what does that make Rosberg then?

you know like illegal traction control, blocking (parking on) the track during the Q, using illegal fuel rigs and endangering everyone in the pit lane as a result ... like those examples of Schumacher's cheating.

Because he did install the traction control on the car himself didn't he? Oh and I forgot he designed the illegal fuel rig. (Incase jj2728 didn't get that, it was sarcasm.  ;) )
(Yes, I have ignored the other part of that post because you seem so fond of only replying to the bits that suit you yourself.)

#16106 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:35

Oh dude I have the BEST avatar for you. end of 2012 should be nice ;)

(Also, per your comments about me earlier.. People with a lot more independence and rational judgement than you were happy enough to accept that I put aside preconceptions in that case, which I did. I was perfectly willing to rule as the evidence presented in the case indicated whatever it showed, and did so even though the final judgement was not in line with my pre-existing view. There was also another judge who actually wrote the judgement. You however had and have no interest in an examination of the facts from an impartial angle, so stop pretending that is what you wanted.)

At the end of the day you are a Schumacher fan who should never been put into such a conflicting position, you let your bias rule, no surprise there.
As for the avatar you will have to work it out with DutchCruijff if Schumacher wins because he or she will choose the avatar

cheers

Edited by SlateGray, 14 December 2011 - 23:36.


#16107 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:37

Can't be G Villeneuve. Must be Rosberg then.

2006: MSC - ROS | 121-4
2010: MSC - ROS | 72-142
2011: MSC - ROS | 76-89

Net loss for Rosberg: 34. Autsj.

MSC - VIL, interesting. 1996, -19. 1997, -3. 1998, +65. 2000, +91. 2001, +111. 2002, +140. 2005, +53. Net loss for Villeneuve, 529. Oof matey.


2006 As temmates ?

Nice try

:lol:

#16108 SlateGray

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 23:41

I am cool with this.

And don't worry about the rat, it really is not going anywhere. :rotfl:


very droll :lol:

#16109 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 00:07

0 wins for Schumacher as Rosberg's teammate
0 season victories over Rosberg as teammates
Very much slower in the Q then Rosberg
More unforced errors then Rosberg

How do you see that as better?

Massa had flashes of greatness and was looking really good until he got that spring in the forhead, he has not been as good after that, Alonso is much better, does anyone doubt that?


He had the best merc finish (4th) in 2011. And looked at least equal to Rosberg in a lot of races, and in some much better. Nico does well in in qualifying and overal hes a very good driver. Vs him I believe Schumacher, at 42, is doing a stellar job, and much better vs teammate than a host of other drivers. So, saying hes too slow to be number 2 to Rosberg is a bit of unfounded bashing imo.

For the Schumacher - Rosberg thread it might be interesting to see who had the best racelaps.

Merc and Brawn seem to have faith in him and good for him. Me, Id be happy to see it go either way in 2012. Schumacher has nothing to prove anymore for me - countless superb drives - and if Rosberg does beat him over the 2012 season well good for him. I just hope Merc produces a good enough car to finally take on Red Bull, or at least trouble Mclaren and Ferrari.

#16110 jj2728

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 00:11

Mate, seriously? Not trying to be funny here but you not picking up on someone's sarcasm doesn't make them bad at it and implying someone is a child is ridiculous.



Mate, seriously why don't you pick up on the point that I made in said post about how team orders have come into play in the past and sometimes in a very public manner. And maybe you should call out those who've been calling me pretty much the same, but oh, I forgot, they are all Schumacher fans....... :rolleyes: (sarcasm intended)

#16111 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 00:45

He had the best merc finish (4th) in 2011. And looked at least equal to Rosberg in a lot of races, and in some much better. Nico does well in in qualifying and overal hes a very good driver. Vs him I believe Schumacher, at 42, is doing a stellar job, and much better vs teammate than a host of other drivers. So, saying hes too slow to be number 2 to Rosberg is a bit of unfounded bashing imo.

For the Schumacher - Rosberg thread it might be interesting to see who had the best racelaps.

Merc and Brawn seem to have faith in him and good for him. Me, Id be happy to see it go either way in 2012. Schumacher has nothing to prove anymore for me - countless superb drives - and if Rosberg does beat him over the 2012 season well good for him. I just hope Merc produces a good enough car to finally take on Red Bull, or at least trouble Mclaren and Ferrari.


Merc like the money and exposure Schumacher brings.. as for the driving i hope they are not happy cuz it is not up to snuff

I hope they build a better car as well, it will however highlight Schumacher's Q deficiencies even more.

Edited by SlateGray, 15 December 2011 - 00:46.


#16112 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 00:58

Mate, seriously why don't you pick up on the point that I made in said post about how team orders have come into play in the past and sometimes in a very public manner. And maybe you should call out those who've been calling me pretty much the same, but oh, I forgot, they are all Schumacher fans....... :rolleyes: (sarcasm intended)

You are not getting it at all. Why would you pick on the incident in Austria, that for all what we know was on last minute orchestrated from pit wall, leaving Schumacher embarrassed by RB. This case was transparent, as I have pointed earlier on, and as many have done it before and after Austria, and there is no need to isolate Schumacher as the one who "needed" help. I further think it is highly disrespectful to his career as a driver who went through a lot to get seven crowns - would have eight, if there was less politics in FiA and Paddock media publicly trying to influence various decisions on Schumacher by developing undue pressure on the officials.

Edited by Sakae, 15 December 2011 - 00:58.


#16113 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:10

At the end of the day you are a Schumacher fan who should never been put into such a conflicting position, you let your bias rule, no surprise there.

Yes we should have found an active and committed Atlas member with no previous opinion on this topic.. lots of those about.

Its an F1 forum and the court was a bit of fun. Judges were people who were prepared to do some work for the forum in order to allow everyone to enjoy an organised debate. The judgement (which you may not have read) was not even the real point. You just can never let go of your hateful attitude on this issue which is a real shame.


#16114 jj2728

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:20

You are not getting it at all. Why would you pick on the incident in Austria, that for all what we know was on last minute orchestrated from pit wall, leaving Schumacher embarrassed by RB. This case was transparent, as I have pointed earlier on, and as many have done it before and after Austria, and there is no need to isolate Schumacher as the one who "needed" help. I further think it is highly disrespectful to his career as a driver who went through a lot to get seven crowns - would have eight, if there was less politics in FiA and Paddock media publicly trying to influence various decisions on Schumacher by developing undue pressure on the officials.


First, I did not mention the incident in Austria, you did. And there is no way that it was a last minute decision to let Schumacher past RB. Ferrari would have stated as much in RB's contract, that come the time, he be requested to cede the postion to MS. If Schumacher did not need help, then why was Rubens asked to cede the position to him? As far as the rest of what you said, well I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists to respond.....

#16115 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:28

Yes we should have found an active and committed Atlas member with no previous opinion on this topic.. lots of those about.

Its an F1 forum and the court was a bit of fun. Judges were people who were prepared to do some work for the forum in order to allow everyone to enjoy an organised debate. The judgement (which you may not have read) was not even the real point. You just can never let go of your hateful attitude on this issue which is a real shame.


Never intended to question your passion for F1 or your commitment to Atlas F1 if I have offended you I apologize unequivocally. Only the judgment, which I did read several times, do I have issue with. The basic conclusion was that it could not be proved that Schumacher acted with intent to collided with Hill and because it could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt by argument and presentation of evidence you let your hero off the hook.

Tell me baddog, the real honest truth about your feeling regarding Schumacher's intentions with that manoeuvre on Hill?
I was a hesitant fan of Schumacher at the time but that moment changed my opinion of Schumacher, future events cemented that opinion.

Edited by SlateGray, 15 December 2011 - 01:29.


#16116 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:51

Never intended to question your passion for F1 or your commitment to Atlas F1 if I have offended you I apologize unequivocally. Only the judgment, which I did read several times, do I have issue with. The basic conclusion was that it could not be proved that Schumacher acted with intent to collided with Hill and because it could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt by argument and presentation of evidence you let your hero off the hook.

Tell me baddog, the real honest truth about your feeling regarding Schumacher's intentions with that manoeuvre on Hill?
I was a hesitant fan of Schumacher at the time but that moment changed my opinion of Schumacher, future events cemented that opinion.

What you questioned is my honesty which is pretty much worse but hey you dont know me so why should you accept I could do something from a dispassionate perspective?

I think Hill drove like an amateur hour idiot. I think that Schumacher drove like an amateur hour idiot, and has to take the lion's share of blame because he did turn in on him. In a modern F1 context Schumacher deserved a 5 place grid penalty next race for causing an avoidable accident. We see incidents like it every couple of races.

Given that the most likely outcome of a collision was Schumacher out and Hill continuing I see no logic at all in him doing it on purpose let alone premeditating it. Closing on someone at the apex of a tight slow corner merely serves, for the most part, to put yourself off the track.

In the Atlas court case we were only permitted to judge on the evidence presented, which was bloody weak on both sides. No way the 'prosecution' made a good enough case to get a conviction for intent, not even close. I was 100% ready to rule that way I really was, but on reading all submissions it was clear no intent was proved. Sorry about that.

#16117 genespleen

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:10

Rosberg is a quality driver, but it's very difficult to see him becoming a regular winner. Nothing I've seen in him shows that he has the 100% hunger and ruthlessness F1 success requires. After six seasons in F1, it may well be that he has plateaued.

Can we say the same about MS, in regards to his post-retirement return? Has he now redeveloped his talents to maximize what they can do in these new cars, or is there more to come. I can imagine there is, but I say this knowing I have a bias as someone who has followed his career since 1990.

Still and all, despite that bias, I just do not see Rosberg suddenly elevating himself to a whole new level of performance. He drives well, sometimes clinically well, in qualifying. But his racecraft does not stand out as remarkable in any way. And while this factor can be overrated, he does not project a team-leader persona either.

#16118 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:22

First, I did not mention the incident in Austria, you did. And there is no way that it was a last minute decision to let Schumacher past RB. Ferrari would have stated as much in RB's contract, that come the time, he be requested to cede the postion to MS. If Schumacher did not need help, then why was Rubens asked to cede the position to him? As far as the rest of what you said, well I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists to respond.....

I give up; this is hopeless.


#16119 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:07

Merc like the money and exposure Schumacher brings.. as for the driving i hope they are not happy cuz it is not up to snuff

I hope they build a better car as well, it will however highlight Schumacher's Q deficiencies even more.


Whatever. That slow guy scored the best for Merc result than Rosberg over season 2011.

The basic conclusion was that it could not be proved that Schumacher acted with intent to collided with Hill and because it could not be proved beyond a reasonable doubt by argument and presentation of evidence you let your hero off the hook.

Tell me baddog, the real honest truth about your feeling regarding Schumacher's intentions with that manoeuvre on Hill?


It wasnt good, but it was still Hills judgement vs a car that was ahead at a track like Adelaide. But since you feeling all righteous, how about Hills move on Schumacher at Monza 1995? Or Hills move on Jacques Villeneuve at Hungaroring 1997? Montoya on Schumacher at Nurburgring 2003? Or his move in the tunnel of Monaco? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

Edited by TheBunk, 15 December 2011 - 04:08.


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#16120 Raelene

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:34

The issue is whether this was an accident resulting from extremely hard driving defense, or premeditated attempt to take Vill. out. No one is disputing that collision have taken place. Even today when I see some blocking (from many drivers), and many times I thought that I see Jerez all over again, which si why I give give benefit of doubt. He was not as polished as he is today, and some moves were rough around edges then, which gave to perception about him as discussed today.


IMO it wasn't premeditated, he initially turned way, but then turned in. It was a spur of the moment " oh sh!T I'm gonna lose the title". I'm honest, I probably would have done the same thing under that type of pressure.

#16121 Raelene

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:38

First, I did not mention the incident in Austria, you did. And there is no way that it was a last minute decision to let Schumacher past RB. Ferrari would have stated as much in RB's contract, that come the time, he be requested to cede the postion to MS. If Schumacher did not need help, then why was Rubens asked to cede the position to him? As far as the rest of what you said, well I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists to respond.....



accordingingto David Coulthard - he had a similar contract to RB (he has stated this about being out of a job had he not followed team instructions)

In fact most drivers do - it's the clause about obeying team instrucations.

the uproar over Austria was because RUBENS made it so obvious... and it involved Ferrari/MSC...

#16122 flowerdew

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 05:20

Anyone have link to this great thread , seems the justice was done. :clap:


I didn't see this answered anywhere in here (sorry if I missed it!):

Case #15 : The Collision between Hill and Schumacher at Adelaide 94

The rest of the cases are here:

The Atlas F1 Court

#16123 ivand911

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 08:32

Schumacher says no testing hurt comeback
http://www.yallaf1.c...-hurt-comeback/
Thanks for the link flowerdew.

Guys, two pages, Really? I mean Really? Came on. I just scroll over them.

Edited by ivand911, 15 December 2011 - 08:40.


#16124 Math89

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:40

When everyone is awake, back from work or school they will add another page or two... Don't worry.

The following things will be mentioned as usual.

-Rosberg more points.
-Rosberg no victories.
-Cheating Schumacher.
-The past and how I can't get over it.
-You started it!
-No, you started it!


And Slategray will continue his holy crusade to convert the Schumacher fans into liking another driver because of you know... 1994...1997...



#16125 ivand911

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:56

When everyone is awake, back from work or school they will add another page or two... Don't worry.

The following things will be mentioned as usual.

And Slategray will continue his holy crusade to convert the Schumacher fans into liking another driver because of you know... 1994...1997...

Good post, and who said that:
"-Rosberg more points.
-Rosberg no victories.
-Cheating Schumacher.
-The past and how I can't get over it.
-You started it!
-No, you started it!"

is a genius. :clap:


#16126 spacekid

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 10:17

Mods, how about you just rename this the 'official MS bash thread' where people can post about Jerez '97 without any real desire to discuss the incident or accept that yes, even Michael Schumacher fans felt very let down, to their hearts content, and then we can have another thread to debate the current issues. And before you accuse me again of being a one-eyed fan, a thread where it would be perfectly acceptable to say that Nico is a faster driver in qualifying and quite a talent, and Michael isn't quite as quick at his peak, and to pick at his mistakes over the races and have a look at whats going on with his current form.

Because trying to have a current thread to discuss racing is impossible when it keeps being cluttered with rubbish from 17 years ago. There is no genuine intention to have a debate or discuss these issues - if there was it would perhaps be fair enough - they are only being posted to wind people up. As admitted by some of the people making the posts.

#16127 jj2728

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:10

Mods, how about you just rename this the 'official MS bash thread' where people can post about Jerez '97 without any real desire to discuss the incident or accept that yes, even Michael Schumacher fans felt very let down, to their hearts content, and then we can have another thread to debate the current issues. And before you accuse me again of being a one-eyed fan, a thread where it would be perfectly acceptable to say that Nico is a faster driver in qualifying and quite a talent, and Michael isn't quite as quick at his peak, and to pick at his mistakes over the races and have a look at whats going on with his current form.

Because trying to have a current thread to discuss racing is impossible when it keeps being cluttered with rubbish from 17 years ago. There is no genuine intention to have a debate or discuss these issues - if there was it would perhaps be fair enough - they are only being posted to wind people up. As admitted by some of the people making the posts.


Plenty of threads about racing.....this topic is about Michael Schumacher and some of us who voice intent to have a debate or discussion get shouted down, so the winding up bit is made all the easier. toughen up buttercup.....

#16128 Hacklerf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:29

I would actually like to see this thread renamed Michael Schumacher, instead of Michael Schumacher (merged)

It was merged years ago now, and look untidy.

Just saying. :)

#16129 Hacklerf

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 11:35

accordingingto David Coulthard - he had a similar contract to RB (he has stated this about being out of a job had he not followed team instructions)

In fact most drivers do - it's the clause about obeying team instrucations.

the uproar over Austria was because RUBENS made it so obvious... and it involved Ferrari/MSC...



Yea if anything, it was Rubens fault for sure

Ferrari were a bit silly to ask because the championship was mostly secure already but still, i would point blame to Rubens

#16130 Jejking

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:04

2006 As temmates ?

Nice try

:lol:

So much for comparing apples with oranges then :D Of course it MUST be true and realistic when you say a driver, who came back at his old day after three years of zero F1, must beat his teammate with 80+ points in 2012 to get equal status, now I know where your flawed POV comes from :rotfl: :rotfl:

#16131 MightyMoose

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 13:13

So much for comparing apples with oranges then :D Of course it MUST be true and realistic when you say a driver, who came back at his old day after three years of zero F1, must beat his teammate with 80+ points in 2012 to get equal status, now I know where your flawed POV comes from :rotfl: :rotfl:

It's Slatey's modus operandi.

What can be applied negatively against MS is always fair to bring to the table. Anything that mitigates from his mistakes is to be ignored. Anything that can downplay his talents or achievements will be twisted to show MS in a poor light.

Then he can claim that the MS fans are myopic when they react to his incessant, repetitive trolling.

There's only 1 problem with this thread now, and it's clear who it is. Notice he's stopped the Senna was an angel BS now? All down to the slaughter of him & his credibility that followed. Seriously, all he's got is ridiculous claims that can easily be disproved, or rehashing old history with a current twist, events that true fans acknowledge and don't attempt to gloss over.

I mean, if your best point is along the lines of - well he's 42 & can't compete with a guy who's regarded as a damn good driver after a 3 year hiatus and I'm ignoring the narrowing of the gap during 2011 this proves he's always been shit - then you can't really be taken for anything more than a clueless mug despite your claims of watching F1 since 1977.

Edited by MightyMoose, 15 December 2011 - 13:15.


#16132 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:59

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.

#16133 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:45

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.


Same rules for everyone, one would think this is the area where experience would pay off not the other way around. Just saying

Formula One testing ban eased

http://uk.eurosport....-ban-eased.html

Wed, 07 Dec 12:32:00 2011

"One three-day test will be carried out during the season, formerly there were none,"

the International Automobile Federation said in a statement detailing rule changes after a meeting of its World Motor Sport Council in New Delhi.

Teams were allowed to carry out one test in Abu Dhabi this year but only with young drivers or those with limited or no race experience.


I guess the FIA figure drivers with many years experience should be able to adapt without a lot of testing, makes good sense in most cases anyway, some old dogs will yelp about lacking testing time even if they are one of the most experienced drivers on the grid. If’s and buts and excuse making nothing more, when the green flag drops the BS stops.



#16134 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:55

when the green flag drops the BS stops.



You should do a rerun of the last lap of last years Monaco GP.

Schumacher was always a testing beast. Thats where he cleverly worked out his race winning set ups. If unlimited testing was back, Schumacher would walk to 20 more race wins, and perhaps 2 or 3 more championships. :up:

#16135 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 17:19

You should do a rerun of the last lap of last years Monaco GP.

Schumacher was always a testing beast. Thats where he cleverly worked out his race winning set ups. If unlimited testing was back, Schumacher would walk to 20 more race wins, and perhaps 2 or 3 more championships.

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.



#16136 Schumacher7

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 17:56

so the winding up bit is made all the easier. toughen up buttercup.....

Why do you do that? You make good points and then say silly little things which loses your arguments credibility.

And you'd still better read up on your history, there have been many incidents of drivers being forced to move over and or give over their cars and have been very public in not being too happy about it....

I believe this was the bit you wanted me to address? I don't know what to say, what do you mean? Do you mean in general or to Schumacher?
On topic on the testing thing (although SlateGray has blocked me, couldn't handle somebody who wasn't ridiculously biased one way or the other I suppose) I think the reason no testing has hindered him is the gap (as others have said) between his retirement and comeback, getting rid of the "rust" would be a lot easier in a non competitive environment than at a GP weekend or sanctioned test session I would imagine, although he should be well up to speed by now. He needs to get his act together next year and beat Rosberg definitively without Rosberg being hampered by reliability issues.

#16137 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:06

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.

Sixteen years of experience through continuous learning, experimenting, and improving has to be worth something. In limited time it gives you focus on what's important; it enhances your feedback to people who can work with it. From that point of view I think Michael is most likely good source for engineers.

#16138 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:22

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.


You claimed when the green flag drops, the bullshit stops. Thats exactly what Schumacher did and beat alonso to the line at Monaco.

#16139 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:33

You claimed when the green flag drops, the bullshit stops. Thats exactly what Schumacher did and beat alonso to the line at Monaco.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (again)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?



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#16140 Schumacher7

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:59

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?

That's an interesting point you've made actually, I think you might be right and that it is if what you are experienced in is no longer the best way of doing things and with a sport moving as quickly as F1 a lot of things change in a short space of time, can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that.

#16141 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:14

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (again)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?


And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.

#16142 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:22

And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.


You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (third time)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?

#16143 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:47

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (third time)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?



In MS's case, no testing is a definite setback. As to who should you expect to do better, the one who was not racing during major rule changes affecting driving style, car-control, and car behaviour, not racing one lap with the wide front wings at all, compared to a teammate who is not new(ish) as you so conveniently put it, but quite experienced, with six seasons of continuity behind him as a No1 driver, well maybe you can decide yourself, let's see if you can elaborate on that or you come up with your usual BS. :)

Saying that, I already see your next dumb post, so I would advise you to read your own written words, I bolded them for you. Those are facts, not the manipulative BS you usually pull out from your behind.

Edited by Szoelloe, 15 December 2011 - 19:52.


#16144 spacekid

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 20:27

Plenty of threads about racing.....this topic is about Michael Schumacher and some of us who voice intent to have a debate or discussion get shouted down, so the winding up bit is made all the easier. toughen up buttercup.....


You already clearly said you aren't interested in a debate or to talk about motor racing here. You just enjoy winding people up. Thats what you said.

I know there are other threads as I contribute to them. I'd be happy to discuss Schumi here with you, I am far from one of those fans who can't see his flaws or hero worships the man, but all you want to do is make snide remarks, such as your 'buttercup' comment.

Don't pretend I haven't given you a fair chance for debate when your only stated aim is to annoy me. I'd rather chat about motor racing than have this sort of conversation.

#16145 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:02

And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.


The expression "when the green flag drops the BS stops" is an old one, its basic meaning is talk is cheap and the reality will be revealed on the track in the race.
Good for Schumacher getting into a turn in front of Alonso at Monaco, good job, bettering Alonso is a real achievement, cheers bravo.

Edited by SlateGray, 15 December 2011 - 21:04.


#16146 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:40

I read Schumacher bought a new jet, anyone with info or pics?

#16147 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:07

I read Schumacher bought a new jet, anyone with info or pics?

Schumacher's jet sold to Canadian firm
Brunswick Air Ltd Partners of Saint John, New Brunswick - just purchased Micheal Schumacher's Falcon 2000 which he had purchased new, and had it custom painted.
Canadian registration is C-FJAJ. So we should see it operating out of Canadian airports shortly!
http://i220.photobuc...alcon2000-1.jpg

Edited by Buttoneer, 09 January 2012 - 14:28.


#16148 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:16

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)

#16149 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:18

Guys come on.. say your piece on Schumacher, stop calling each other names.

Slatey is no troll, he is just completely wrong about everything ever.. that is his right ;)

I agree with jj if I read him right in saying that Austria 2002 was just a regular team order frothed up into a false controversy by Rubens' stupidity and the media's desire for a beatup.

#16150 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:30

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)

Could not find anything on his new one, perhaps it is an air bus A380 or a 787 Dreamliner Posted Image
Reason I posted about the old one is that I am a Canadian and as such found it interesting that the old jet went to a Canadian company.