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#16151 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 15:59

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.

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#16152 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:45

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.


Same rules for everyone, one would think this is the area where experience would pay off not the other way around. Just saying

Formula One testing ban eased

http://uk.eurosport....-ban-eased.html

Wed, 07 Dec 12:32:00 2011

"One three-day test will be carried out during the season, formerly there were none,"

the International Automobile Federation said in a statement detailing rule changes after a meeting of its World Motor Sport Council in New Delhi.

Teams were allowed to carry out one test in Abu Dhabi this year but only with young drivers or those with limited or no race experience.


I guess the FIA figure drivers with many years experience should be able to adapt without a lot of testing, makes good sense in most cases anyway, some old dogs will yelp about lacking testing time even if they are one of the most experienced drivers on the grid. If’s and buts and excuse making nothing more, when the green flag drops the BS stops.



#16153 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 16:55

when the green flag drops the BS stops.



You should do a rerun of the last lap of last years Monaco GP.

Schumacher was always a testing beast. Thats where he cleverly worked out his race winning set ups. If unlimited testing was back, Schumacher would walk to 20 more race wins, and perhaps 2 or 3 more championships. :up:

#16154 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 17:19

You should do a rerun of the last lap of last years Monaco GP.

Schumacher was always a testing beast. Thats where he cleverly worked out his race winning set ups. If unlimited testing was back, Schumacher would walk to 20 more race wins, and perhaps 2 or 3 more championships.

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.



#16155 Schumacher7

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 17:56

so the winding up bit is made all the easier. toughen up buttercup.....

Why do you do that? You make good points and then say silly little things which loses your arguments credibility.

And you'd still better read up on your history, there have been many incidents of drivers being forced to move over and or give over their cars and have been very public in not being too happy about it....

I believe this was the bit you wanted me to address? I don't know what to say, what do you mean? Do you mean in general or to Schumacher?
On topic on the testing thing (although SlateGray has blocked me, couldn't handle somebody who wasn't ridiculously biased one way or the other I suppose) I think the reason no testing has hindered him is the gap (as others have said) between his retirement and comeback, getting rid of the "rust" would be a lot easier in a non competitive environment than at a GP weekend or sanctioned test session I would imagine, although he should be well up to speed by now. He needs to get his act together next year and beat Rosberg definitively without Rosberg being hampered by reliability issues.

#16156 Sakae

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:06

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.

Sixteen years of experience through continuous learning, experimenting, and improving has to be worth something. In limited time it gives you focus on what's important; it enhances your feedback to people who can work with it. From that point of view I think Michael is most likely good source for engineers.

#16157 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:22

I agree that this was one of Schumacher's strong areas, testing and testing and testing some more. As for your prediction about Schumacher’s success if unlimited testing where allowed again I feel he would be finishing somewhere around 8th or 9th. Zero chance that Schumacher could go toe to toe and win against the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Button, Hamilton, Rosberg, Webber, he may get in front Massa or he might get beat by one of the Force India drivers hard to say.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise)
Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?

A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or

A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

I dare any Schumacher fan to give an honest answer to that question.


You claimed when the green flag drops, the bullshit stops. Thats exactly what Schumacher did and beat alonso to the line at Monaco.

#16158 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:33

You claimed when the green flag drops, the bullshit stops. Thats exactly what Schumacher did and beat alonso to the line at Monaco.

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (again)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?



#16159 Schumacher7

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 18:59

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?

That's an interesting point you've made actually, I think you might be right and that it is if what you are experienced in is no longer the best way of doing things and with a sport moving as quickly as F1 a lot of things change in a short space of time, can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that.

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#16160 TheBunk

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:14

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (again)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?


And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.

#16161 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:22

And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.


You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (third time)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?

#16162 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 19:47

You failed to address the point of my post (surprise) (third time)

Who do you feel should do better in an limited or no testing situation?
A new-ish driver with little or no F1 experience or
A driver with 16 seasons of F1 experience under his belt including 91 victories and 7 World Driving Championships?

Do you think experience is somehow a hindrance?



In MS's case, no testing is a definite setback. As to who should you expect to do better, the one who was not racing during major rule changes affecting driving style, car-control, and car behaviour, not racing one lap with the wide front wings at all, compared to a teammate who is not new(ish) as you so conveniently put it, but quite experienced, with six seasons of continuity behind him as a No1 driver, well maybe you can decide yourself, let's see if you can elaborate on that or you come up with your usual BS. :)

Saying that, I already see your next dumb post, so I would advise you to read your own written words, I bolded them for you. Those are facts, not the manipulative BS you usually pull out from your behind.

Edited by Szoelloe, 15 December 2011 - 19:52.


#16163 spacekid

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 20:27

Plenty of threads about racing.....this topic is about Michael Schumacher and some of us who voice intent to have a debate or discussion get shouted down, so the winding up bit is made all the easier. toughen up buttercup.....


You already clearly said you aren't interested in a debate or to talk about motor racing here. You just enjoy winding people up. Thats what you said.

I know there are other threads as I contribute to them. I'd be happy to discuss Schumi here with you, I am far from one of those fans who can't see his flaws or hero worships the man, but all you want to do is make snide remarks, such as your 'buttercup' comment.

Don't pretend I haven't given you a fair chance for debate when your only stated aim is to annoy me. I'd rather chat about motor racing than have this sort of conversation.

#16164 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:02

And you fail to acknowledge your one liner against Schumacher - as most of your other points - doesnt make sense at all.

Schumacher is right, and if more testing was allowed, hed probably be showing the rest of the field his gearbox in an inferior Mercedes car.


The expression "when the green flag drops the BS stops" is an old one, its basic meaning is talk is cheap and the reality will be revealed on the track in the race.
Good for Schumacher getting into a turn in front of Alonso at Monaco, good job, bettering Alonso is a real achievement, cheers bravo.

Edited by SlateGray, 15 December 2011 - 21:04.


#16165 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 21:40

I read Schumacher bought a new jet, anyone with info or pics?

#16166 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:07

I read Schumacher bought a new jet, anyone with info or pics?

Schumacher's jet sold to Canadian firm
Brunswick Air Ltd Partners of Saint John, New Brunswick - just purchased Micheal Schumacher's Falcon 2000 which he had purchased new, and had it custom painted.
Canadian registration is C-FJAJ. So we should see it operating out of Canadian airports shortly!
http://i220.photobuc...alcon2000-1.jpg

Edited by Buttoneer, 09 January 2012 - 14:28.


#16167 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:16

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)

#16168 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:18

Guys come on.. say your piece on Schumacher, stop calling each other names.

Slatey is no troll, he is just completely wrong about everything ever.. that is his right ;)

I agree with jj if I read him right in saying that Austria 2002 was just a regular team order frothed up into a false controversy by Rubens' stupidity and the media's desire for a beatup.

#16169 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:30

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)

Could not find anything on his new one, perhaps it is an air bus A380 or a 787 Dreamliner Posted Image
Reason I posted about the old one is that I am a Canadian and as such found it interesting that the old jet went to a Canadian company.

#16170 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:42

Guys come on.. say your piece on Schumacher, stop calling each other names.

Slatey is no troll, he is just completely wrong about everything ever.. that is his right ;)

I agree with jj if I read him right in saying that Austria 2002 was just a regular team order frothed up into a false controversy by Rubens' stupidity and the media's desire for a beatup.

baddog seeing as, according to you, I am always wrong about everything, I would just like to say you are a quality individual and it has been my pleasure exchanging postings with you low these many years. Your endless knowledge of F1 is only superseded by your prodigious wisdom on any subject a body may care to name ;)

As for the team orders thing in Austria I feel it was Jean Todt that made the call against the wishes of the others, especially Rubens.



#16171 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:46

baddog seeing as, according to you, I am always wrong about everything, I would just like to say you are a quality individual and it has been my pleasure exchanging postings with you low these many years. Your endless knowledge of F1 is only superseded by your prodigious wisdom on any subject a body may care to name ;)

As for the team orders thing in Austria I feel it was Jean Todt that made the call against the wishes of the others, especially Rubens.

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.

#16172 FigJam

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:48

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.


This is news? Of course its hurt, he was out of F1 for 3 years...its amazing how many people thought he'd return and take no time to find his feet.

F1 develops at an astonishing rate, far more so than the old days. Half a season out would affect a drivers performance, particularly if their unfamiliar with the car.

Its what will make Raikkonens return interesting viewing.

#16173 jj2728

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:55

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


I agree. Mika Salo knew the score when he signed for Ferrari after Schumacher's accident, handing the win to Irvine at the German GP in the process.

#16174 Johnrambo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:06

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


More than Schurrari RB humiliated MS fanboys who tried to deny MS needs #1 treatment to succeed.

#16175 Johnrambo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:11

outcome of a collision was Schumacher out and Hill continuing


The denial is strong in this one. It was virtually certain that the force MS cynically and deliberately crashed into Hill would bent Damon's suspension.

#16176 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:14

More than Schurrari RB humiliated MS fanboys who tried to deny MS needs #1 treatment to succeed.

Hmm I just thought Jean Todt showed that day, to the surprise, shock and outrage of F1 ignorami, how you run an über successful racing team.

#16177 TheBunk

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:32

and the media's desire for a beatup.



I agree with this. They were looking for a stick and now they got one. They portrayed it as the end of F1. Like watching a bunch of children in a school yard. But when Mclaren decided to stop racing after turn 1 of the 1998 melbourne gp suddenly it was all okay and all the angry fans demanding their betting money back simply had no clue how F1 was run. Disgusting. Made me an even bigger fan of the German. He had to fight against all that prejudice. Now that he isnt a threat to national darling Hamilton suddenly the press is nice to him.

#16178 merschu

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:39

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)


This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by merschu, 16 December 2011 - 06:49.


#16179 Hacklerf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:28

Sweet, :smoking:

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#16180 Clatter

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:44

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


Is it a fact that his contract said this?


#16181 baddog

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:03

Is it a fact that his contract said this?

I believe firmly that it is yes. This is why the Ferrari team were so shocked at his behaviour.. it being no surprise to him when he got the call. Its a long time ago so I hope you will not ask me for an immediate link!

#16182 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:14

This is what Barrichello said in a post-race interview, at the track:

"I have on the contract that i have to obey orders, as much as Michael, he has the same clause. So if i disobey right now, at just the beginning of my 2 1/2 years of contract...
So people will ask me: why don't you go back to a team where you can be on top, but they might not give me a car to win."

#16183 IsometricBacon

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:22

This is news? Of course its hurt, he was out of F1 for 3 years...its amazing how many people thought he'd return and take no time to find his feet.

F1 develops at an astonishing rate, far more so than the old days. Half a season out would affect a drivers performance, particularly if their unfamiliar with the car.

Its what will make Raikkonens return interesting viewing.


Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...

#16184 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:23

Rubens did a similar thing way back in 2001 at Austria too.

#16185 FigJam

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:23

Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...


F1 in the last few years is a universe away from the early 90's. You can't just jump into a car anymore, without preparation...and be on it.

Couple that with time out of F1...and your up against it.

#16186 sharo

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:28

Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...

If they all sit now in the cars from that time I'm not sure the young guns would manage to be better than him.

#16187 Concorde

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:33

This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

M-IKEL nice :cool:

#16188 Jejking

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 13:04

M-IKEL nice :cool:

Saw that one too! Nice touch :lol:

#16189 ivand911

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 15:32

Small bit about MS:
http://www.gpupdate....says-johansson/
“It is like Michael (Schumacher); his car clearly doesn’t suit him at all and I think he has had a much tougher time than he expected to, but I think he has an even more unique driving style than Kimi. If you don’t have the car it doesn’t matter how good you are because you’re not going to win the championship anyway."


#16190 George Costanza

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:59

If they all sit now in the cars from that time I'm not sure the young guns would manage to be better than him.


Yes agreed.

No one has expereinced the classic manual gearbox of 1991, except for Michael Schumacher.

Put every driver in the Benetton of 1991-1992, I think Schu comes out on top.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 December 2011 - 18:01.


#16191 zelpre

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 16:51

Michael's 2011 Review article from Autosport Magazine

#16192 ivand911

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 17:27

From what I read there ,pretty good review.

#16193 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:02

This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

Posted Image

Well, if you can't get a Mercedes' F1 "Silver Arrow" on track, buy yourself a new one.


#16194 mursuka80

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:28

MS used to be fast...and then he got arrow to the knee.

#16195 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:27

Well, if you can't get a Mercedes' F1 "Silver Arrow" on track, buy yourself a new one.

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.

Edited by Sakae, 18 December 2011 - 09:28.


#16196 spa08

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:09

Small bit about MS:
http://www.gpupdate....says-johansson/
“It is like Michael (Schumacher); his car clearly doesn’t suit him at all and I think he has had a much tougher time than he expected to, but I think he has an even more unique driving style than Kimi. If you don’t have the car it doesn’t matter how good you are because you’re not going to win the championship anyway."


At least you admit that despite Michael being one of the greatest of all time he cannot fully adapt to a car or tyres that don't suit him. Also we don't really know if the car suits rosberg either, just shows that the car is the
big difference to complete performance potential

Edited by spa08, 18 December 2011 - 11:11.


#16197 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:27

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.


:) it's more like twenty.


#16198 Massa_f1

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:37

At least you admit that despite Michael being one of the greatest of all time he cannot fully adapt to a car or tyres that don't suit him. Also we don't really know if the car suits rosberg either, just shows that the car is the
big difference to complete performance potential



It suits Rosberg more. The on board cameras show that very well. Every time you ride on board with Michael He is pushing buttons making corrections on the wheel. Never sure what the car is going to do.
You can see where he looses time.


I don't see Rosberg having to do that half as much.

#16199 spa08

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:31

It suits Rosberg more. The on board cameras show that very well. Every time you ride on board with Michael He is pushing buttons making corrections on the wheel. Never sure what the car is going to do.
You can see where he looses time.


I don't see Rosberg having to do that half as much.


I do know what you mean, this wasn't too bad but lastyear his onboard footage was sometimes shocking especially in heavy braking areas and slow corners

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#16200 ivand911

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 13:20

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.

Cabin take from 8(4plus4) to 10(6plus4) passengers. And maybe even 12 (6 plus 6)
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74406
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74405
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74403

Edited by ivand911, 18 December 2011 - 13:22.