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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#16151 SlateGray

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:42

Guys come on.. say your piece on Schumacher, stop calling each other names.

Slatey is no troll, he is just completely wrong about everything ever.. that is his right ;)

I agree with jj if I read him right in saying that Austria 2002 was just a regular team order frothed up into a false controversy by Rubens' stupidity and the media's desire for a beatup.

baddog seeing as, according to you, I am always wrong about everything, I would just like to say you are a quality individual and it has been my pleasure exchanging postings with you low these many years. Your endless knowledge of F1 is only superseded by your prodigious wisdom on any subject a body may care to name ;)

As for the team orders thing in Austria I feel it was Jean Todt that made the call against the wishes of the others, especially Rubens.



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#16152 baddog

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:46

baddog seeing as, according to you, I am always wrong about everything, I would just like to say you are a quality individual and it has been my pleasure exchanging postings with you low these many years. Your endless knowledge of F1 is only superseded by your prodigious wisdom on any subject a body may care to name ;)

As for the team orders thing in Austria I feel it was Jean Todt that made the call against the wishes of the others, especially Rubens.

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.

#16153 FigJam

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:48

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/66570.html

Testing ban hurting Schumacher

Is what all sensible people have been saying.


This is news? Of course its hurt, he was out of F1 for 3 years...its amazing how many people thought he'd return and take no time to find his feet.

F1 develops at an astonishing rate, far more so than the old days. Half a season out would affect a drivers performance, particularly if their unfamiliar with the car.

Its what will make Raikkonens return interesting viewing.

#16154 jj2728

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 22:55

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


I agree. Mika Salo knew the score when he signed for Ferrari after Schumacher's accident, handing the win to Irvine at the German GP in the process.

#16155 Johnrambo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:06

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


More than Schurrari RB humiliated MS fanboys who tried to deny MS needs #1 treatment to succeed.

#16156 Johnrambo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:11

outcome of a collision was Schumacher out and Hill continuing


The denial is strong in this one. It was virtually certain that the force MS cynically and deliberately crashed into Hill would bent Damon's suspension.

#16157 Concorde

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 23:14

More than Schurrari RB humiliated MS fanboys who tried to deny MS needs #1 treatment to succeed.

Hmm I just thought Jean Todt showed that day, to the surprise, shock and outrage of F1 ignorami, how you run an über successful racing team.

#16158 TheBunk

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:32

and the media's desire for a beatup.



I agree with this. They were looking for a stick and now they got one. They portrayed it as the end of F1. Like watching a bunch of children in a school yard. But when Mclaren decided to stop racing after turn 1 of the 1998 melbourne gp suddenly it was all okay and all the angry fans demanding their betting money back simply had no clue how F1 was run. Disgusting. Made me an even bigger fan of the German. He had to fight against all that prejudice. Now that he isnt a threat to national darling Hamilton suddenly the press is nice to him.

#16159 merschu

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 06:39

yeah that's the old one he sold but he just bought new wheels err wings I read.
Must be nice jetting back home whilst the rest of the grid is still scrambling for the airport, perks of a 7 time WDC I guess. :)


This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

Posted Image
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Edited by merschu, 16 December 2011 - 06:49.


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#16160 Hacklerf

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:28

Sweet, :smoking:

#16161 Clatter

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 09:44

Most amusing.

Perhaps, but Rubens knew before the race that this would happen.. he had signed a new contract stating this shortly before. Then Rubens decided at the last minute to humiliate his team in front of the world, even though he had agreed to this in advance. I would have fired his ass on the spot.


Is it a fact that his contract said this?


#16162 baddog

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:03

Is it a fact that his contract said this?

I believe firmly that it is yes. This is why the Ferrari team were so shocked at his behaviour.. it being no surprise to him when he got the call. Its a long time ago so I hope you will not ask me for an immediate link!

#16163 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:14

This is what Barrichello said in a post-race interview, at the track:

"I have on the contract that i have to obey orders, as much as Michael, he has the same clause. So if i disobey right now, at just the beginning of my 2 1/2 years of contract...
So people will ask me: why don't you go back to a team where you can be on top, but they might not give me a car to win."

#16164 IsometricBacon

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:22

This is news? Of course its hurt, he was out of F1 for 3 years...its amazing how many people thought he'd return and take no time to find his feet.

F1 develops at an astonishing rate, far more so than the old days. Half a season out would affect a drivers performance, particularly if their unfamiliar with the car.

Its what will make Raikkonens return interesting viewing.


Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...

#16165 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:23

Rubens did a similar thing way back in 2001 at Austria too.

#16166 FigJam

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:23

Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...


F1 in the last few years is a universe away from the early 90's. You can't just jump into a car anymore, without preparation...and be on it.

Couple that with time out of F1...and your up against it.

#16167 sharo

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:28

Lack of testing certaining did not hurt his debut at Spa in 1991...

If they all sit now in the cars from that time I'm not sure the young guns would manage to be better than him.

#16168 Concorde

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 11:33

This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

M-IKEL nice :cool:

#16169 Jejking

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 13:04

M-IKEL nice :cool:

Saw that one too! Nice touch :lol:

#16170 ivand911

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 15:32

Small bit about MS:
http://www.gpupdate....says-johansson/
“It is like Michael (Schumacher); his car clearly doesn’t suit him at all and I think he has had a much tougher time than he expected to, but I think he has an even more unique driving style than Kimi. If you don’t have the car it doesn’t matter how good you are because you’re not going to win the championship anyway."


#16171 George Costanza

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 17:59

If they all sit now in the cars from that time I'm not sure the young guns would manage to be better than him.


Yes agreed.

No one has expereinced the classic manual gearbox of 1991, except for Michael Schumacher.

Put every driver in the Benetton of 1991-1992, I think Schu comes out on top.

Edited by George Costanza, 16 December 2011 - 18:01.


#16172 zelpre

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 16:51

Michael's 2011 Review article from Autosport Magazine

#16173 ivand911

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 17:27

From what I read there ,pretty good review.

#16174 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:02

This is Schumi's new jet a Dassault Falcon 2000LX. :D

Posted Image

Well, if you can't get a Mercedes' F1 "Silver Arrow" on track, buy yourself a new one.


#16175 mursuka80

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:28

MS used to be fast...and then he got arrow to the knee.

#16176 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 09:27

Well, if you can't get a Mercedes' F1 "Silver Arrow" on track, buy yourself a new one.

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.

Edited by Sakae, 18 December 2011 - 09:28.


#16177 spa08

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:09

Small bit about MS:
http://www.gpupdate....says-johansson/
“It is like Michael (Schumacher); his car clearly doesn’t suit him at all and I think he has had a much tougher time than he expected to, but I think he has an even more unique driving style than Kimi. If you don’t have the car it doesn’t matter how good you are because you’re not going to win the championship anyway."


At least you admit that despite Michael being one of the greatest of all time he cannot fully adapt to a car or tyres that don't suit him. Also we don't really know if the car suits rosberg either, just shows that the car is the
big difference to complete performance potential

Edited by spa08, 18 December 2011 - 11:11.


#16178 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:27

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.


:) it's more like twenty.


#16179 Massa_f1

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:37

At least you admit that despite Michael being one of the greatest of all time he cannot fully adapt to a car or tyres that don't suit him. Also we don't really know if the car suits rosberg either, just shows that the car is the
big difference to complete performance potential



It suits Rosberg more. The on board cameras show that very well. Every time you ride on board with Michael He is pushing buttons making corrections on the wheel. Never sure what the car is going to do.
You can see where he looses time.


I don't see Rosberg having to do that half as much.

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#16180 spa08

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 12:31

It suits Rosberg more. The on board cameras show that very well. Every time you ride on board with Michael He is pushing buttons making corrections on the wheel. Never sure what the car is going to do.
You can see where he looses time.


I don't see Rosberg having to do that half as much.


I do know what you mean, this wasn't too bad but lastyear his onboard footage was sometimes shocking especially in heavy braking areas and slow corners

#16181 ivand911

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 13:20

Cabin takes only six passengers on board. I am surprised that he travels so privately (almost like a family car). I thought he would have bunch of ten to fifteen people with him. G650 can take eight, and probably has longer cruising range.

Cabin take from 8(4plus4) to 10(6plus4) passengers. And maybe even 12 (6 plus 6)
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74406
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74405
http://www.dassaultf...mp;DOCNUM=74403

Edited by ivand911, 18 December 2011 - 13:22.


#16182 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 14:19

I am not sure why, but this specifications lists 6 passengers. (But I see also the other pictures).

http://www.dassaultf...performance.jsp

Edited by Sakae, 18 December 2011 - 14:25.


#16183 ivand911

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 14:37

I am not sure why, but this specifications lists 6 passengers. (But I see also the other pictures).

http://www.dassaultf...performance.jsp

It shows airplane performance with 6 passengers on board.  ;)

#16184 Sakae

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 15:01

It shows airplane performance with 6 passengers on board. ;)

I see, bad me. It was after midnight when I look at it with my eyes half closed. Thanks.

Falcon seems much luxuriously made inside than G650 (at least on the internet, as I do not own one).

#16185 tkulla

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 15:18

This is news? Of course its hurt, he was out of F1 for 3 years...its amazing how many people thought he'd return and take no time to find his feet.

F1 develops at an astonishing rate, far more so than the old days. Half a season out would affect a drivers performance, particularly if their unfamiliar with the car.

Its what will make Raikkonens return interesting viewing.


It makes me wonder. How well would Michael have done with unlimited testing? Would it have created problems with Nico (by trying to get as much of that testing as possible)?

For that matter, would Michael have been so dominant during his prime years with the urgent testing rules, or would it have given Rubens more equal footing within the team?

#16186 ivand911

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 15:31

It makes me wonder. How well would Michael have done with unlimited testing? Would it have created problems with Nico (by trying to get as much of that testing as possible)?

For that matter, would Michael have been so dominant during his prime years with the urgent testing rules, or would it have given Rubens more equal footing within the team?

I think they would have equal testing time.
About Rubens - he and Badoer have more testing time in some years than Michael. But, never Michael have like 10000km and Rubens 5000km. They usually did around 11000 km per year. Testing mileage can be found on internet. I post it before. But, you can say that Michael use their testing results for his own/team good, as Rubens use Michaels too.

Edited by ivand911, 18 December 2011 - 15:37.


#16187 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 15:39

It makes me wonder. How well would Michael have done with unlimited testing? Would it have created problems with Nico (by trying to get as much of that testing as possible)?

For that matter, would Michael have been so dominant during his prime years with the urgent testing rules, or would it have given Rubens more equal footing within the team?


It's hard to say, but IMHO, no, it would have not given RB an edge. It could have given somewhat more weight to RB, He was always known for his fast feel for finding setups, MS always experimented more with his race engineer.


#16188 tkulla

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 15:49

I think they would have equal testing time.
About Rubens - he and Badoer have more testing time in some years than Michael. But, never Michael have like 10000km and Rubens 5000km. They usually did around 11000 km per year. Testing mileage can be found on internet. I post it before. But, you can say that Michael use their testing results for his own/team good, as Rubens use Michaels too.


Fair enough. But maybe the difference would have been Badoer's la k of testing, which Schumi's often said was vital. The question is whether Luca's mission was to try to get the car set up to fit Schumacher or whether he just did straight up development testing.

#16189 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 16:03

Fair enough. But maybe the difference would have been Badoer's la k of testing, which Schumi's often said was vital. The question is whether Luca's mission was to try to get the car set up to fit Schumacher or whether he just did straight up development testing.


Well, that would depend on how different the needs of RB and MS were. I don't think they were different because MS used, as I said before, RB's setups frequently. So no, I don't think Badoer was just testink for MS, it was more like pre-testing the developments for the car and the race drivers. One has to say, it was an efficient structure, with them owning their own race track. I think MS was simply better than RB, that's all. On his days, RB could beat MS, but that's just it: He was never consistent enough to pull the rabbit out of the hat on a regular basis, whereas MS has was always like a Swiss watch in that respect. I see that kind of freaky ability to concentrate in Vettel only from the current crop, maybe Alonso too, but to lesser extent.


#16190 ivand911

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:06

Very good read(the article):
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=158925
It explain some of Michael performance. As car goes from understeer(when heavy) to oversteer , he goes faster. Slower first stint and faster next ones.

#16191 spa08

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 13:55

Very good read(the article):
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=158925
It explain some of Michael performance. As car goes from understeer(when heavy) to oversteer , he goes faster. Slower first stint and faster next ones.


Strange when at its lightest in qualifying he struggles to get the maximum out of the car

#16192 metz

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 14:09

Strange when at its lightest in qualifying he struggles to get the maximum out of the car

Not realy. Tyre temp is different.

#16193 ivand911

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 15:35

Strange when at its lightest in qualifying he struggles to get the maximum out of the car

The Qualy(Q3) is not what it used to be. They don't push to the maximum(some times don't even do a lap). Don't even go for it. To save tyres.

#16194 spa08

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 16:12

Not realy. Tyre temp is different.


I doubt schumacher struggles to get the correct temp with his driving style

#16195 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 16:14

I doubt schumacher struggles to get the correct temp with his driving style


No he is not. At least I don't think he as any tyre issues. His one lap issues are EBD related.


#16196 as65p

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 17:56

No he is not. At least I don't think he as any tyre issues. His one lap issues are EBD related.


I think they're simply speed related. Qualifying laps are often 4 secs or more faster nowadays than what they do in the race. It appears MS is out of his comfort zone at qualifying speed. In the race, lapping slower, all his experience and race craft kicks in and he looks quite good again.

#16197 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 18:03

I think they're simply speed related. Qualifying laps are often 4 secs or more faster nowadays than what they do in the race. It appears MS is out of his comfort zone at qualifying speed. In the race, lapping slower, all his experience and race craft kicks in and he looks quite good again.


Possible. Still, I think the gap was exaggerated by the EBD, but you could still be right. We'll see next season. I am mighty curious if he can up his game in qualy or not.


#16198 spa08

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 18:09

I think they're simply speed related. Qualifying laps are often 4 secs or more faster nowadays than what they do in the race. It appears MS is out of his comfort zone at qualifying speed. In the race, lapping slower, all his experience and race craft kicks in and he looks quite good again.


How though? Don't tell me it's fitness related because I bet he's one of the fittest of drivers and I'm sure he's probably the strongest driver on the grid.

#16199 DutchCruijff

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 18:41

There is no doubt in my mind that his problems, relative to his age of course, concerning Qualifying is more mechanical rather than psychological.

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#16200 baddog

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 18:42

I think they're simply speed related. Qualifying laps are often 4 secs or more faster nowadays than what they do in the race. It appears MS is out of his comfort zone at qualifying speed. In the race, lapping slower, all his experience and race craft kicks in and he looks quite good again.

Thats unlikely. The EBD simply hasnt worked for him, it would be easy (obviously because most people have not even noticed it) to underestimate the effect this has on his driving. Without it it is very possible there will be some suprises next year.