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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#16401 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:45

Great drivers don't need race winning cars to have far far better results than that. That is why they are great. You do not need to be a great driver to have great results in a race winning car.


:lol:

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#16402 krea

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:48

Great drivers don't need race winning cars to have far far better results than that. That is why they are great. You do not need to be a great driver to have great results in a race winning car.


It's not possible to win a race if 3 teams are a lot faster without crazy circumstances.

What are you talking is silly talk

#16403 IsometricBacon

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:54

It's not possible to win a race if 3 teams are a lot faster without crazy circumstances.

What are you talking is silly talk


I never said he had to win. A great driver would get many podiums and at least challenge for race wins. 5 podiums in 120 races is not great, its mediocre for a driver who has had good machinery his whole career.

#16404 spa08

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 11:57

Great drivers don't need race winning cars to have far far better results than that. That is why they are great. You do not need to be a great driver to have great results in a race winning car.


Schumacher obviously isn't great enough then!

#16405 krea

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:00

other great drivers like Kubica too or Button before he got a championship winning car.

#16406 IsometricBacon

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:02

You use the word 'great' rather cheaply. 'Good' is what you should be using.

#16407 rm111

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:15

Yes and hamy has had his arse handed to him by just a 'good' driver, so what does that make him?

#16408 ivand911

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 13:03

Schumacher obviously isn't great enough then!

He is the only greatest driver in F1 at the moment. And ever. At the moment. And ever. Moment,ever,moment,ever. :clap: We are lucky to witness that.

Edited by ivand911, 06 January 2012 - 13:03.


#16409 cheapracer

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 13:04

I never said he had to win. A great driver would get many podiums and at least challenge for race wins. 5 podiums in 120 races is not great, its mediocre for a driver who has had good machinery his whole career.


When has Rosberg had a good car?

Did you not read his post? Rosberg (and MS) has had 6 superior cars in front of him the last 2 seasons.

A great driver can drive his car closer to the limit than others but he can not perform miracles.




#16410 Boing 2

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 17:47

He is the only greatest driver in F1 at the moment. And ever. At the moment. And ever. Moment,ever,moment,ever. :clap: We are lucky to witness that.


Most successful, not greatest :)


#16411 Poep

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:05

Most successful, not greatest :)

Most succesfull and greatest :)

#16412 cheapracer

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 18:28

Most successful, not greatest :)


I suggest you go find a dictionary.



#16413 jj2728

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 21:08

I never said he had to win. A great driver would get many podiums and at least challenge for race wins. 5 podiums in 120 races is not great, its mediocre for a driver who has had good machinery his whole career.


Another comment for the 'wtf' files......
And so you are saying that Schumacher is not a great or no longer a great driver.....

#16414 Group B

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 21:21

Another comment for the 'wtf' files......
And so you are saying that Schumacher is not a great or no longer a great driver.....

'no longer' is a fair point for discussion, but what 's hilarious are the clowns claiming we can judge how good MS was 20 years ago by how he's perfoming now.

#16415 spa08

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:04

'no longer' is a fair point for discussion, but what 's hilarious are the clowns claiming we can judge how good MS was 20 years ago by how he's perfoming now.


20 year ago he was the new crash kid. Take a look at magny cours 92, brilliant racecraft!! :rotfl:

#16416 Kubiccia

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:25

20 year ago he was the new crash kid. Take a look at magny cours 92, brilliant racecraft!! :rotfl:


Cherry picking in extreme. :rotfl:

You can see many more clown moments from the experienced Senna in 92,93,94.

Just because Schumacher beaten Senna many times in qualifying despite inferior car and even won races with a crappy Bennetton, you developed a hatred towards him.

Compare early years of Schumacher and early/todays' years of Nico and you see the difference in talent between both. Nico have always been a mediocre driver, never had the talent of a guy like Schumacher.

#16417 jj2728

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 22:59

Nico have always been a mediocre driver, never had the talent of a guy like Schumacher.


Yep, and that's why Mercedes has decided to keep him on.....keep a mediocre driver around so that Schumacher can look better...... :rolleyes:

#16418 Kubiccia

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 23:41

Yep, and that's why Mercedes has decided to keep him on.....keep a mediocre driver around so that Schumacher can look better...... :rolleyes:

He was picked because there is no real star available. Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel aren't options for Mercedes so Rosberg is quite the best available, even though he's still mediocre. He's not bad, he's a good mediocre driver.

#16419 spa08

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:25

He was picked because there is no real star available. Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel aren't options for Mercedes so Rosberg is quite the best available, even though he's still mediocre. He's not bad, he's a good mediocre driver.


If a so called mediocre destroys Schumacher this much in qualifying, I'd hate to think what today's top drivers would do to him. :rotfl: :D

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#16420 Craven Morehead

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:45

Rosberg's always had single lap pace. IIRC, he recorded fastest lap in his very first GP, and qualified third in his second. This in the '06 Williams, which was a pretty average car overall. I'd say that was pretty impressive. He stood on the podium twice as a Williams driver. I would expect he's at a very high level personally at this point in his career. Honestly, I'd expect him to out-qualify any 42 year old guy, even Michael Schumacher.

#16421 spa08

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:47

Cherry picking in extreme. :rotfl:

You can see many more clown moments from the experienced Senna in 92,93,94.

Just because Schumacher beaten Senna many times in qualifying despite inferior car and even won races with a crappy Bennetton, you developed a hatred towards him.

Compare early years of Schumacher and early/todays' years of Nico and you see the difference in talent between both. Nico have always been a mediocre driver, never had the talent of a guy like Schumacher.


Imola, Monaco, monza want me to carry on?? :rotfl:

#16422 baddog

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 08:19

Rosberg's always had single lap pace. IIRC, he recorded fastest lap in his very first GP, and qualified third in his second. This in the '06 Williams, which was a pretty average car overall. I'd say that was pretty impressive. He stood on the podium twice as a Williams driver.

I try to say this but people just say 'schumi fan excuses' which is so very unfair to Nico, who won many fans at Williams.

#16423 cheapracer

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 13:58

Nico have always been a mediocre driver, never had the talent of a guy like Schumacher.


I think that one might come back to bite you on the ass in a few years time.


20 year ago he was the new crash kid. Take a look at magny cours 92, brilliant racecraft!! :rotfl:


Yep, won more than 10% of Grand Prix ever run in it's 50 year+ history by crashing a lot.

You got any idea what your posts look like to most people cringing at them?

Imola, Monaco, monza want me to carry on?? :rotfl:


Ummm, No? - but that's not going to stop you so I guess "ignore" world here you come....

FWIW I don't ignore guys like Slate Gray because he actually tries to put up reasoning and debate into his posts rather than flat out trolling or worse, sheer ignorant idiocy.


#16424 Apollonius

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 18:27

I suggest you go find a dictionary.



Let's just end the debate and call him the best F1 driver in history because he is - fact.

#16425 ivand911

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 19:36

Let's just end the debate and call him the best F1 driver in history because he is - fact.

:up:

#16426 jj2728

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 21:29

Let's just end the debate and call him the best F1 driver in history because he is - fact.


There are more than a few people who will disagree with you and I am one of them.
Once again, different eras cannot be compared.
If you mean his stats, then I would agree that his stats are the best, but that does NOT necessarily mean that he is the best driver ever.


#16427 Group B

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 21:35

There are more than a few people who will disagree with you and I am one of them.
Once again, different eras cannot be compared.
If you mean his stats, then I would agree that his stats are the best, but that does NOT necessarily mean that he is the best driver ever.

Absolutely true. But that said I'll bet my left bollock that the MS of 15 years ago would've lost very few qualifying sessions to Nico.

#16428 Sakae

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 22:21

There are more than a few people who will disagree with you and I am one of them.
Once again, different eras cannot be compared.
If you mean his stats, then I would agree that his stats are the best, but that does NOT necessarily mean that he is the best driver ever.

Educate us how is racing greatness measured.

#16429 ClockworkRacing

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 22:34

The 1998 Schumacher would put a whole second down Nico´s throat,that´s for sure! :smoking:

But regardless that,NR is a very good and solid driver,no doubts about it.

#16430 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 00:10

Educate us how is racing greatness measured.


You want education? Then read some history about this sport and then read my post again.

#16431 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 00:11

Absolutely true. But that said I'll bet my left bollock that the MS of 15 years ago would've lost very few qualifying sessions to Nico.


I'll bet you that it would be very close.....

#16432 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 00:14

The 1998 Schumacher would put a whole second down Nico´s throat,that´s for sure! :smoking:

But regardless that,NR is a very good and solid driver,no doubts about it.


I like how you know for sure that Schumacher would beat rosberg by a second in his so called prime

#16433 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 00:15

I'll bet you that it would be very close.....


:up:

#16434 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:56

I'll bet you that it would be very close.....



It is funny how NR is not getting the respect he should.

#16435 Sakae

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:19

You want education? Then read some history about this sport and then read my post again.

Based on your evasivness it appears that you have no clue what it is you are talking about, do you? History is full of opinions, mostly subjective, and then there are statistics; problem is, you do not like statistics - you prefer an empty argument instead.

Edited by Sakae, 08 January 2012 - 03:19.


#16436 George Costanza

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 04:59

The 1998 Schumacher would put a whole second down Nico´s throat,that´s for sure! :smoking:

But regardless that,NR is a very good and solid driver,no doubts about it.



No driver in the history of F1, except for 1988-1991 Ayrton Senna, could match 1996-2000 Schumacher. Given the cars he drove for those seasons, which was not exactly the quickest car nor the most reliable car from 1996-2000 (McLaren had the faster car in 1998-1999-2000, but I'd say by 2000, Ferrari was the better package very slighty, in 1997, Williams was the better car absolutely).

Edited by George Costanza, 08 January 2012 - 05:02.


#16437 George Costanza

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:04

I like how you know for sure that Schumacher would beat rosberg by a second in his so called prime



Given how fast Mika was, I hope no one thinks Nico is as quick as Mika, I think Schu would be indeed 0.7 to 1 second faster on some situations to Nico.




#16438 Kubiccia

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:55

If a so called mediocre destroys Schumacher this much in qualifying, I'd hate to think what today's top drivers would do to him. :rotfl: :D

top guys would put 1,5s in some ocasions.

Imola, Monaco, monza want me to carry on?? :rotfl:

call him crashkid by that? :lol:

I'll bet you that it would be very close.....

highly unlikely, to not say impossible.

No driver in the history of F1, except for 1988-1991 Ayrton Senna, could match 1996-2000 Schumacher. Given the cars he drove for those seasons, which was not exactly the quickest car nor the most reliable car from 1996-2000 (McLaren had the faster car in 1998-1999-2000, but I'd say by 2000, Ferrari was the better package very slighty, in 1997, Williams was the better car absolutely).

Given how fast Mika was, I hope no one thinks Nico is as quick as Mika, I think Schu would be indeed 0.7 to 1 second faster on some situations to Nico.

finally some sense here :up:

Unfortunately we can see Schumi X Massa again because that would prove how Schumi got much slower.

Edited by ForeverF1, 08 January 2012 - 06:26.


#16439 Tardis40

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:16

Rosberg will get respect when he does something other than lead Friday Practice. At the moment he's still 91 wins behind Michael.



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#16440 xlr8

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 07:00

I find it hard to understand how can people compare a 7 time WDC and arguably the best driver in F1 history with a driver like Rosberg who haven't won anything yet.

Edited by xlr8, 08 January 2012 - 07:39.


#16441 cheapracer

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:06

You want education? Then read some history about this sport and then read my post again.


No - you're the one being pompous, you tell us why you know more than we do and why MS isn't the best.

Guys, no need to beat Rosberg down just because less than valued posters are being irritating, he is pretty darn good - Chris Amon, Martin Brundle, Derek Warick, Stefan Johansson and a few other good drivers never won a GP either, Webber only started recently and Button had only one win under his belt for 10 years.




#16442 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 08:14

Given how fast Mika was, I hope no one thinks Nico is as quick as Mika, I think Schu would be indeed 0.7 to 1 second faster on some situations to Nico.


This makes no sense at all, bringing mika into the discussion doesn't prove one little thing

Edited by spa08, 08 January 2012 - 08:14.


#16443 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:14

Given how fast Mika was, I hope no one thinks Nico is as quick as Mika, I think Schu would be indeed 0.7 to 1 second faster on some situations to Nico.


:rotfl:

This makes no sense at all, bringing mika into the discussion doesn't prove one little thing


Actually it does. That is why the post quoted above you is funny. MH was fighting in the midfield for 8-9 years until he surfaced on top, and finally earned himself the reputation he has today. He was judged about the same way as NR is now. I just thought that somebody who is throwing about MH's name in this context would know that, but obviously not.


#16444 Egor

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:21

:)

Posted Image

Edited by Egor, 08 January 2012 - 11:21.


#16445 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 11:24

:rotfl:



Actually it does. That is why the post quoted above you is funny. MH was fighting in the midfield for 8-9 years until he surfaced on top, and finally earned himself the reputation he has today. He was judged about the same way as NR is now. I just thought that somebody who is throwing about MH's name in this context would know that, but obviously not.


What as nico having the same reputation as mika got to do with arguments that nico would be competitive with Schumacher in his so called prime?

#16446 ivand911

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:17

I find it hard to understand how can people compare a 7 time WDC and arguably the best driver in F1 history with a driver like Rosberg who haven't won anything yet.

Me too. And I think Nico is very good driver. Not worst than Alonso, Lewis and Vettel in qualifying. When he get car capable of winning, then we will know how good he is.


#16447 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:34

Me too. And I think Nico is very good driver. Not worst than Alonso, Lewis and Vettel in qualifying. When he get car capable of winning, then we will know how good he is.


To win you need a good car that is capable of it, unless you have some good fortune. This day and age it is very hard to luck into a win as cars these days are virtually bullet proof

Edited by spa08, 08 January 2012 - 12:35.


#16448 xlr8

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 12:52

Me too. And I think Nico is very good driver. Not worst than Alonso, Lewis and Vettel in qualifying. When he get car capable of winning, then we will know how good he is.


Exactly. Nico is very good and certainly not a mediocre driver as many people thinks. There is no doubt he has proven himself in the lower/midfield teams and gained a lot of experience while still being quite young and he even managed a few podiums in 2010. But great qualifier? don't think so. In qualifying Niko will always put the midfield car where it should be. But i don't think he would be getting pole in a top car. Because qualifying in 4th row under no pressure and qualifying in front row under extreme pressure is two completely different thing. And he does tend to make mistakes under pressure. And he also lacks race craft.

Edited by xlr8, 08 January 2012 - 12:55.


#16449 Concorde

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 13:02

Me too. And I think Nico is very good driver. Not worst than Alonso, Lewis and Vettel in qualifying. When he get car capable of winning, then we will know how good he is.

Yep Nico is a very good driver. Great over 1 lap, needs a little more race craft and commercially very interesting as very presentable and fluent in 5 languages.

#16450 sharo

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 13:02

No doubt Nico is fast, constant and makes few mistakes. One thing I haven't personally seen in him is passion, the spark that attracts your attention to someone among a number of more or less equal. Michael had this spark as soon as he appeared on the grid.
There's even controversy of different magnitude accompanying every champion. For that matter I saw the same spark in Lewis, but it seems he couldn't stand up to the challenge, maybe because of the bordering with hysteria publicity he got from the media and fan base.