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#16451 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:42

JJ we don't care who is the greatest in your books! It is OT. He is in our books, and that is what matters for us. And he is greatest in other peoples book too. We get it about your books. Can you stop repeating yourself? You have to accept this(that we think he is the best) and move on.


Yeah, I get that. It must really get under your collective skins when someone does not worship at his knee caps like many of you do.
And as far as repeating one's self, well I'd say that a majority of you once again do the same on a regular basis and so I'll just say...
pot.....kettle....black.....

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#16452 tifosiMac

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:50

You see Spa08, handel, jj2728, etc. - above is a post with reasoning, eloquence and intelligence.

The opinion is wrong but still a good post! :up: :lol:

I was lucky enough to see his era from his very first race up until this present day. I have big respect for the guy and at his peak his driving was clinical, consistent, and ruthless. Mesmerizing to watch infact. He is one of the greats the sport has ever seen, but on personal level I have to say he isn't who I hold that mantle for. Statistically he is the best until his records are beaten which may not occur for many, many years, but the word 'great' holds a different meaning to me than 'best'. I'm sure Michael is happy with his records and has total career satisfaction. He himself admits he doesn't consider himself as the greatest and I don't feel he is just doing that out of modesty. The BBC did an interesting segment a couple of years ago where every driver was asked who the 'greatest' was. It was interesting to hear their views and shows how different people look up to the greats. :)

#16453 ivand911

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 19:50

Yeah, I get that. It must really get under your collective skins when someone does not worship at his knee caps like many of you do.
And as far as repeating one's self, well I'd say that a majority of you once again do the same on a regular basis and so I'll just say...
pot.....kettle....black.....

1. NO. Read my last post again. First sentence.
2. Nobody wants to change you.
3. I don't go to the other drivers threads to tell there, that the topic guy is not the best as majority of them think. This is the difference between me and you, I don't force my opinion.

Edited by ivand911, 08 January 2012 - 19:50.


#16454 George Costanza

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 20:40

:rotfl:



Actually it does. That is why the post quoted above you is funny. MH was fighting in the midfield for 8-9 years until he surfaced on top, and finally earned himself the reputation he has today. He was judged about the same way as NR is now. I just thought that somebody who is throwing about MH's name in this context would know that, but obviously not.



No, this is funny.

Mika had the speed; he always did; as we saw in 1993 and 1994. Nico does not have that kind of speed.

#16455 George Costanza

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 20:41

I think Mika Hakkinen would disagree with you........



The McLaren was the better car from 1998-2000, I am sure he would agree with that. For 2000, it was on par with Ferrari, remember Ferrari had issues with their car in the summer of 2000. As for as competeting with vintage Schumacher, which he did very well.... But Schu was clearly the better driver overall, I don't think anyone disputes that for those seasons; look at some of the wonderful drives he put on.

Edited by George Costanza, 08 January 2012 - 20:44.


#16456 tifosiMac

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 20:48

Can't give you 1 particular example

:lol:

#16457 Group B

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 20:59

The 'greatest' will always be a matter of subjective opinion, though most of us would draw up a pretty similar top 10. I'm a huge fan of (the old) Michael, but there's no way I can be certain he's better than Lang, Rosemeyer, Fangio, Clark, etc - or even Senna, Prost and Co. What I do know, as TifosiMac says, is that he was little short of mesmerizing from around 1992-2002, and only someone too young to remember or wilfully obtuse would claim he was an average driver in hyper cars.

On the subject of Mika, he's the only guy from 94-04 that I felt could match Michael over a single lap; some of their turn-taking qualifying duels were absolutely epic.

#16458 spa08

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 21:08

No, this is funny.

Mika had the speed; he always did; as we saw in 1993 and 1994. Nico does not have that kind of speed.


And how do you know he hasn't, put it this way if he was in a top car he'd be well worth a bet in my eyes

#16459 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 21:30

3. I don't go to the other drivers threads to tell there, that the topic guy is not the best as majority of them think. This is the difference between me and you, I don't force my opinion.


Actually that's pretty funny, almost child like.
You don't go over to the other drivers' threads to say that so and so is not the best.....what do you think this is, a juniors' schoolyard?
I am not forcing any opinion on anyone I am merely stating MHO and why I think it is so, but some of you are so blind in your allegiance to Schumacher that reasoning, eloquence and intelligence go right out the window....


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#16460 Tardis40

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 21:39

Obviously it's very difficult to draw meaningful comparisons between athletes that competed in different eras. Thus we have those that tout Fangio, Clark, Ayrton, et al.

Schumacher's statistics are of such a magnitude that there is nothing to compare them to. I doubt if any driver will ever top the 91 wins and 7 wdcs he accumulated in his "first career". I can understand that this gets stuck in the craws of those that don't like him. The numbers are there, they are undeniable, and no one has ever come anywhere near matching them.

Is not the greatest track and field star the one who runs the fastest, jumps the highest, and wins all the medals and titles? Is not the same true for any other endeavor? It's no different here either. If anyone has claim to the title of the greatest racing driver ever, it is Michael Schumacher.



#16461 handel

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 21:55

Obviously it's very difficult to draw meaningful comparisons between athletes that competed in different eras. Thus we have those that tout Fangio, Clark, Ayrton, et al.

Schumacher's statistics are of such a magnitude that there is nothing to compare them to. I doubt if any driver will ever top the 91 wins and 7 wdcs he accumulated in his "first career". I can understand that this gets stuck in the craws of those that don't like him. The numbers are there, they are undeniable, and no one has ever come anywhere near matching them.

Is not the greatest track and field star the one who runs the fastest, jumps the highest, and wins all the medals and titles? Is not the same true for any other endeavor? It's no different here either. If anyone has claim to the title of the greatest racing driver ever, it is Michael Schumacher.


Different eras, different:

- Types of machinery
- Amounts of races
- Financial climate (stability, driver loyalty)
- Technological climate (ability for one team to stay ahead)
- Competition

Comparing eras with any degree of accuracy is therefore impossible since there are NO constants. This is the single defining principle of scientific investigation and therefore surely pretty central to any statistical analysis. The examples you give do have constants given their lack of complexity - i.e. running, jumping and can by all means be compared.

I'm not arguing that someone other than MS could be given this 'greatest driver' crown. I'm saying that even using it as a term is banal, trivial, utterly pointless affair the like of which should be reserved for shoddy tabloid journalism, children & the writing team for Top Gear.

#16462 ivand911

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 22:14

Actually that's pretty funny, almost child like.
You don't go over to the other drivers' threads to say that so and so is not the best.....what do you think this is, a juniors' schoolyard?
I am not forcing any opinion on anyone I am merely stating MHO and why I think it is so, but some of you are so blind in your allegiance to Schumacher that reasoning, eloquence and intelligence go right out the window....

So,anyone who won't accept your vision/opinion is blind, not intelligent, not reasonable. Tell me about it not forcing opinion.


#16463 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 22:35

So,anyone who won't accept your vision/opinion is blind, not intelligent, not reasonable. Tell me about it not forcing opinion.


Nope, you are wrong. I never stated that anyone had to accept anything I voice an opinion on.
Did you not read my prior post?
I guess it all ties in with the blind allegiance stuff, you read and interpret what suits your views.....

#16464 jj2728

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 22:39

Comparing eras with any degree of accuracy is therefore impossible since there are NO constants. This is the single defining principle of scientific investigation and therefore surely pretty central to any statistical analysis. The examples you give do have constants given their lack of complexity - i.e. running, jumping and can by all means be compared.

I'm not arguing that someone other than MS could be given this 'greatest driver' crown. I'm saying that even using it as a term is banal, trivial, utterly pointless affair the like of which should be reserved for shoddy tabloid journalism, children & the writing team for Top Gear.


That in essence is what I have been trying to say, but as usual, well....... you can gauge by the responses I am met with how well it goes over in some circles here...

#16465 baddog

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 00:15

Nope, you are wrong. I never stated that anyone had to accept anything I voice an opinion on.
Did you not read my prior post?
I guess it all ties in with the blind allegiance stuff, you read and interpret what suits your views.....

I would like to chime in and say your views (along with other people's dismissal of them as bunk for the most part) are very welcome here. You might want to consider whether a less supercilious tone would generate a more friendly conversation with the general forum community however, assuming you wish for a positive and friendly discussion that is.

Back on topic, calling Rosberg mediocre is ridiculous, and seems to mostly be aimed at Michael rather than being a thought out opinion, as he placed a poor Williams in excellent grid positions it never deserved on numerous occasions and has never failed to extract the apparent maximum from his car in qualifying at any team. He seems to lack SOMETHING over a two hour in comparison to a Mika or a Michael, something in the head. I can't really back that up though.

I wont go near 'greatest ever' waffle, it has always been silly.

Edited by baddog, 09 January 2012 - 00:16.


#16466 George Costanza

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 01:27

The 'greatest' will always be a matter of subjective opinion, though most of us would draw up a pretty similar top 10. I'm a huge fan of (the old) Michael, but there's no way I can be certain he's better than Lang, Rosemeyer, Fangio, Clark, etc - or even Senna, Prost and Co. What I do know, as TifosiMac says, is that he was little short of mesmerizing from around 1992-2002, and only someone too young to remember or wilfully obtuse would claim he was an average driver in hyper cars.

On the subject of Mika, he's the only guy from 94-04 that I felt could match Michael over a single lap; some of their turn-taking qualifying duels were absolutely epic.



Yes, I always believed Mika could be faster than Michael on the single lap. No doubt he was on his day (1998-2000 seasons).

#16467 jj2728

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 01:30

I would like to chime in and say your views (along with other people's dismissal of them as bunk for the most part) are very welcome here. You might want to consider whether a less supercilious tone would generate a more friendly conversation with the general forum community however, assuming you wish for a positive and friendly discussion that is.


Thanks, but I'm a big boy and can handle this crowd. And to be quite frank I like the idea of being supercilious, has a nice ring to it. You see, I post an opinion of mine and almost immediately am jumped upon. and why? Because it is contradictory to the rampant hero worship of Schumacher that goes on here.....I'm forcing, as they say, my opinons on them, I am pompous, to some I can't read, don't know what a dictionary is, am neither eloquent, nor reasonable.......oh my.
And all because I have said that Schumacher's stats are the best, but IMHO I do not think that he is the greatest driver ever as one cannot compare different eras...
Funny thing is, I've met him a couple of times and he was most pleasant, doesn't change my opinion of whether he's the greatest or not though.......

#16468 spacekid

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 07:49

Thanks, but I'm a big boy and can handle this crowd. And to be quite frank I like the idea of being supercilious, has a nice ring to it. You see, I post an opinion of mine and almost immediately am jumped upon. and why? Because it is contradictory to the rampant hero worship of Schumacher that goes on here.....I'm forcing, as they say, my opinons on them, I am pompous, to some I can't read, don't know what a dictionary is, am neither eloquent, nor reasonable.......oh my.
And all because I have said that Schumacher's stats are the best, but IMHO I do not think that he is the greatest driver ever as one cannot compare different eras...
Funny thing is, I've met him a couple of times and he was most pleasant, doesn't change my opinion of whether he's the greatest or not though.......


You seem quite unaware of the reason you are being 'jumped on'.

Of course you can hold whatever opinion you want. The reason you are getting into 'arguments' about your 'opinion' is that your tone is downright rude and condascending.

As an example - I agree it is silly to hold one driver up as the 'greatest'. I couldn't tell you who was better between Jim Clark or Senna or Schumi or Prost etc etc and wouldn't bother to try. I also think Rosberg is a mighty fine driver who has shaded Schumi these past 2 years in terms of performance.

The responses you have made to my posts in the past say everything about your attitude, so you don't fool me with this 'oh its only because no Schumacher fan on here is reasonable' BS. Buttercup.

#16469 sharo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:06

The whole idea of crowning one driver as 'the greatest of all time' is flawed. The sport changes, the requirements change. It's a lot like trying to crown the best football player of all time - daft and impossible to quantify.

I share the same view and keep saying it from time to time, but few pay attention.
Although I am a devoted MS fan I'd never declare him the greatest of all times. But not for the flawed reasons most people here give. Simply there are many great drivers and every one has made his achievements in different periods of time and under different conditions. The common between them is that they have managed to be the best under those circumstances and used their opportunities to the max.

Edited by sharo, 09 January 2012 - 10:08.


#16470 jj2728

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 10:22

You seem quite unaware of the reason you are being 'jumped on'.

Of course you can hold whatever opinion you want. The reason you are getting into 'arguments' about your 'opinion' is that your tone is downright rude and condascending.

As an example - I agree it is silly to hold one driver up as the 'greatest'. I couldn't tell you who was better between Jim Clark or Senna or Schumi or Prost etc etc and wouldn't bother to try. I also think Rosberg is a mighty fine driver who has shaded Schumi these past 2 years in terms of performance.

The responses you have made to my posts in the past say everything about your attitude, so you don't fool me with this 'oh its only because no Schumacher fan on here is reasonable' BS. Buttercup.


As far as being unaware.....hardly......
You don't like my attitude? Then don't respond.....simple as that. Or put me on your ignore list as so many are want to do....

#16471 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:00

Obviously it's very difficult to draw meaningful comparisons between athletes that competed in different eras. Thus we have those that tout Fangio, Clark, Ayrton, et al.

Schumacher's statistics are of such a magnitude that there is nothing to compare them to. I doubt if any driver will ever top the 91 wins and 7 wdcs he accumulated in his "first career". I can understand that this gets stuck in the craws of those that don't like him. The numbers are there, they are undeniable, and no one has ever come anywhere near matching them.

At last a voice of a reason. I have always maintained that it is not only counterproductive to compare drivers of different era, and if (for fun) you want to do it, statistics is the only yardstick that is left then. I would not want to depend on archived articles from hostile, nationalistic websites or similar sources. I also view as disrespectful for someone to say to Schumacher, just as to any other driver - you not the greatest, without actualy also explaining on what basis one can make a such claim. It makes sense to me that if you say it, than you can also explain it, and if not, than you are simply trolling.

#16472 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:07

At last a voice of a reason. I have always maintained that it is not only counterproductive to compare drivers of different era, and if (for fun) you want to do it, statistics is the only yardstick that is left then. I would not want to depend on archived articles from hostile, nationalistic websites or similar sources. I also view as disrespectful for someone to say to Schumacher, just as to any other driver - you not the greatest, without actualy also explaining on what basis one can make a such claim. It makes sense to me that if you say it, than you can also explain it, and if not, than you are simply trolling.

I don't agree that statistics are the only yardstick you can judge with. I would agree that it is difficult to say one driver is the greatest over the other because the era's have been so different. You could argue that Schumacher never faced the type of competition we saw in the 80's or like in the present day. You could also say that regardless of that he still would have been the best, but their are elements of doubt on both sides. I think when debating we need to accept that others have different opinions and we all have drivers we have looked up to and admired their talents. Saying you consider Schumacher to be the best there has been based on his achievements, but not the greatest in terms of overall package is not a daft thing to say and shouldn't be greeted with the accusation of trolling IMO.

#16473 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:15

I don't agree that statistics are the only yardstick you can judge with. I would agree that it is difficult to say one driver is the greatest over the other because the era's have been so different. You could argue that Schumacher never faced the type of competition we saw in the 80's or like in the present day.

Well here you go again - how you can claim that drivers who drove alonside Schumacher were lesser drivers than those who raced after or before his (first) carreer was launched? On what basis you make that claim other than your subjective opinion? BTW, I am old enough to remember my time at the track to see Michael racing with Senna and Prost, and I am satisfied with his top level driving.

Edited by Sakae, 09 January 2012 - 12:16.


#16474 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 12:25

Well here you go again - how you can claim that drivers who drove alonside Schumacher were lesser drivers than those who raced after or before his (first) carreer was launched? On what basis you make that claim other than your subjective opinion? BTW, I am old enough to remember my time at the track to see Michael racing with Senna and Prost, and I am satisfied with his top level driving.

How can you claim he did have equally strong opponents during time, is also a reasonable question? What I have said IS my opinion, and I am not passing it off as fact or anything like that. Why can't you accept my view? :confused:

I like yourself am old enough to remember Schumacher racing against Senna and Prost and I also witnessed it live at the track. Does that make my opinion any better than anyone elses? No it doesn't but I'm entitled to my opinion.

#16475 ivand911

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 13:35

I don't agree that statistics are the only yardstick you can judge with. I would agree that it is difficult to say one driver is the greatest over the other because the era's have been so different. You could argue that Schumacher never faced the type of competition we saw in the 80's or like in the present day. You could also say that regardless of that he still would have been the best, but their are elements of doubt on both sides.

What competition you see in 2011? I didn't see any. It was walk in the park.


#16476 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 13:46

What competition you see in 2011? I didn't see any. It was walk in the park.

Very true. I suppose if the car is the best by a clear margin all the competition in the world won't stop you winning championships.

#16477 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 16:24

Out of interest, for you Schumi fans what are your opinions on the Rascasse '06 incident and did it change your affection/feelings for Schumacher in anyway whatsoever?

#16478 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 16:31

Out of interest, for you Schumi fans what are your opinions on the Rascasse '06 incident and did it change your affection/feelings for Schumacher in anyway whatsoever?

To answer your question - No, and anyone who thinks he would have managed the situation differently is playing Monday morning quarterback. Situation unfolds differently in an armchair looking backwards, the same on the pitwall, and when you are in the car, making split second decisions. Some journalists simply live in destruction, scorch land mode for majority of their lives, so it seems.

#16479 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 16:36

Out of interest, for you Schumi fans what are your opinions on the Rascasse '06 incident and did it change your affection/feelings for Schumacher in anyway whatsoever?


no

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#16480 chrisaix

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 16:55

Out of interest, for you Schumi fans what are your opinions on the Rascasse '06 incident and did it change your affection/feelings for Schumacher in anyway whatsoever?


No, not at all. He's still the same schumi for me.

#16481 Richardc

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 16:59

In such a long career there will be bits that are less than ideal, just happens his were at important times for important reasons.

#16482 hammibal

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:13

Rosberg will get respect when he does something other than lead Friday Practice. At the moment he's still 91 wins behind Michael.

Well he got the respect of Mercedes who gave him a new multi-year contract and the respect of Ferrari who showed interest in him, he's also beat Schumacher these past 2 seasons. If Rosberg is not a driver too be respected then it surely shows that Schumacher is being employed just on past reputation.

#16483 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:15

I have to say that it (a) he did cheat, it was intentional not a "sudden reflex" as he showed no remorse whatsoever after the incident & (b) not really but it has, for me, left an unjustifiable stain on his career. Certains incidents i.e. Adelaide & Austria can be justified, Rascasse just can't, it was a really cheap error especially after everything.

#16484 sharo

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:17

I have to say that it (a) he did cheat, it was intentional not a "sudden reflex" as he showed no remorse whatsoever after the incident & (b) not really but it has, for me, left an unjustifiable stain on his career. Certains incidents i.e. Adelaide & Austria can be justified, Rascasse just can't, it was a really cheap error especially after everything.

You are free to think whatever you like. But don't try to hijack the thread with questions like the one above.

#16485 George Costanza

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:18

The Monaco of 2006 "gate" had no effect on the championship.... We all know that if Schu won Japan, it was his.

#16486 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:23

I have to say that it (a) he did cheat, it was intentional not a "sudden reflex" as he showed no remorse whatsoever after the incident & (b) not really but it has, for me, left an unjustifiable stain on his career. Certains incidents i.e. Adelaide & Austria can be justified, Rascasse just can't, it was a really cheap error especially after everything.

Of course we can then assume that from where you sit you are in position to know that he had other options, and in premediated fashion he decided to play evil. Forgive me, but I am very much in doubt of that.

Edited by Sakae, 09 January 2012 - 17:24.


#16487 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:24

You are free to think whatever you like. But don't try to hijack the thread with questions like the one above.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

It's the off-season, I'm a MS fan, I'm instigating debate, I'm answering questions of my own, so I believe you're very much mistaken.

#16488 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:27

Of course we can then assume that from where you sit you are in position to know that he had other options, and in premediated fashion he decided to play evil. Forgive me, but I am very much in doubt of that.

Of course he had other options, just like he exercised those options for the other 287 qualifying sessions. Premediated as in before Quali session? Not sure. Intentional as in knew what he was going to do/doing whilst entering/exiting the corner? Yes.

#16489 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:27

The Monaco of 2006 "gate" had no effect on the championship.... We all know that if Schu won Japan, it was his.

For sure, but my question is rather of his image rather than any sporting consequences.

#16490 cheapracer

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:31

You don't like my attitude?


Apparently a lot don't but it must be us I guess

Or put me on your ignore list


Your first quality post.



#16491 hammibal

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:32

I find it hard to understand how can people compare a 7 time WDC and arguably the best driver in F1 history with a driver like Rosberg who haven't won anything yet.

Rosberg's never had the car to win anything having only ever had the 4th best car

Exactly. Nico is very good and certainly not a mediocre driver as many people thinks. There is no doubt he has proven himself in the lower/midfield teams and gained a lot of experience while still being quite young and he even managed a few podiums in 2010. But great qualifier? don't think so. In qualifying Niko will always put the midfield car where it should be. But i don't think he would be getting pole in a top car. Because qualifying in 4th row under no pressure and qualifying in front row under extreme pressure is two completely different thing. And he does tend to make mistakes under pressure. And he also lacks race craft.



No, this is funny.

Mika had the speed; he always did; as we saw in 1993 and 1994. Nico does not have that kind of speed.

Back in 2007 after being repeatedly humiliated by Rosberg in qualifying, Alexander Wurz put forward the opinion that Rosberg was the best qualifier in F1


The 'greatest' will always be a matter of subjective opinion, though most of us would draw up a pretty similar top 10. I'm a huge fan of (the old) Michael, but there's no way I can be certain he's better than Lang, Rosemeyer, Fangio, Clark, etc - or even Senna, Prost and Co. What I do know, as TifosiMac says, is that he was little short of mesmerizing from around 1992-2002, and only someone too young to remember or wilfully obtuse would claim he was an average driver in hyper cars.

On the subject of Mika, he's the only guy from 94-04 that I felt could match Michael over a single lap; some of their turn-taking qualifying duels were absolutely epic.



#16492 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:34

Of course he had other options, just like he exercised those options for the other 287 qualifying sessions. Premediated as in before Quali session? Not sure. Intentional as in knew what he was going to do/doing whilst entering/exiting the corner? Yes.


Hmm, I will need to talk to you about my betting choices, because you have a gift that I am lacking. I have no clue what Michael was thinking about.

#16493 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:42

Hmm, I will need to talk to you about my betting choices, because you have a gift that I am lacking. I have no clue what Michael was thinking about.



Are you able to give me a brief idea as to what he is thinking 3 seconds in when he's taking that line? Because if you can't, you're lacking in numerous other attributes too.

#16494 Sakae

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:49



Are you able to give me a brief idea as to what he is thinking 3 seconds in when he's taking that line? Because if you can't, you're lacking in numerous other attributes too.

So now we are resorting to personal insults? You know what, I do not need to discuss it with you, because you are pretty much determined to have it your way regardless whatever I shall say, including your total disregard steering movement attempts which should have taken him away from the wall. But it dosen't matter anymore.

Edited by Sakae, 09 January 2012 - 17:50.


#16495 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 17:53

Two important factors:-

1. The line he takes into the corner
2. His steering movement attempts which took him TOWARDS the wall.

It's a true fact, you're lacking from numerous attributes, for example, the ability to take an impartial view.

#16496 cheapracer

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:00

How can you claim he did have equally strong opponents during time, is also a reasonable question?


No, it's not and it's not a very high quality notion either.

Go and count how many Kart clubs there are, how many Formula Ford drivers there are, how many Formula 3 drivers there are and so on and so on - the magnitude of scale of how many drivers want to get to F1 is staggering yet only a small group get there on skill alone and they are the very, very best of many thousands...

... and you're going to sit there are state that over a 10 year plus period of time all of who made it to F1 were just ordinary?

No way - every now and then a driver appears that for some reason is a little bit special, Schumacher, Hakkinen and Alonso through that period and we see it in now with the arrival of Hamilton and Vettle.

#16497 Boing 2

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:02

To answer your question - No, and anyone who thinks he would have managed the situation differently is playing Monday morning quarterback. Situation unfolds differently in an armchair looking backwards, the same on the pitwall, and when you are in the car, making split second decisions. Some journalists simply live in destruction, scorch land mode for majority of their lives, so it seems.


Are you seriously saying that anyone who claims they wouldn't blatantly cheat to win is a liar? Not all of us reside at that end of the moral spectrum you know.

Your last sentence really sums up why some of the Schumy Loonies get such a hard time and I am differentiating the fanatics from the mere fans here. The man blatantly cheats to the extent that he is even punished for it and your response is to have a go at the journalists for criticising him? How dare they criticise your favourite driver, they simply must be racists!

#16498 Boing 2

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:04

You are free to think whatever you like. But don't try to hijack the thread with questions like the one above.


How do you hijack a thread titled "Michael Schumacher, Man, Machine and his Racing Craft" by discussing the past driving of Michael Schumacher?


#16499 Boing 2

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:08

No, it's not and it's not a very high quality notion either.

Go and count how many Kart clubs there are, how many Formula Ford drivers there are, how many Formula 3 drivers there are and so on and so on - the magnitude of scale of how many drivers want to get to F1 is staggering yet only a small group get there on skill alone and they are the very, very best of many thousands...

... and you're going to sit there are state that over a 10 year plus period of time all of who made it to F1 were just ordinary?

No way - every now and then a driver appears that for some reason is a little bit special, Schumacher, Hakkinen and Alonso through that period and we see it in now with the arrival of Hamilton and Vettle.


Next year there will be 6 world champions on the grid and at a rough count 11 race winners. At one point in 94 there were 0 world champions and a mere 3 race winners and one of those was Schumacher!

Not just that but last year there were 4 world champions and six race winners in the 6 fastest cars on the track. Thats a bit tougher to win that just Hill Vs Schumacher every weekend.

Edited by Boing 2, 09 January 2012 - 18:10.


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#16500 krea

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 18:13

Next year there will be 6 world champions on the grid and at a rough count 11 race winners. At one point in 94 there were 0 world champions and a mere 3 race winners.


and?

in 2007 was Alonso the only WDC on track... the year was full with bad drivers?

Not just that but last year there were 4 world champions and six race winners in the 6 fastest cars on the track. Thats a bit tougher to win that just Hill Vs Schumacher every weekend.


there is no logic in your post.

the number of drivers with WDC said nothing about the quality of the driverfield, only in the last years more differnt driver won a title.

Edited by krea, 09 January 2012 - 18:16.