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#16551 George Costanza

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 01:14

Nice to imagine but very doubtful



How is that doubtful?

Schu would have won the titles in 1996 and 1997 in the Benetton. He nearly won it for Ferrari in 1997.

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#16552 Raelene

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:14

I have no problem with Monaco...it was tactical... no different from in the days of SC's where a driver would leave his car in the middle of the track after a start line accident, so there would be a restart and they couyld jump into the spare car...

#16553 jj2728

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:50

I have no problem with Monaco...it was tactical... no different from in the days of SC's where a driver would leave his car in the middle of the track after a start line accident, so there would be a restart and they couyld jump into the spare car...


Oh really? Please give us some examples....
Enlighten us.....

#16554 Raelene

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:53

did you watch in the days of spare cars? If so, I don't need to give you examples

#16555 jj2728

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:56

did you watch in the days of spare cars? If so, I don't need to give you examples


Lol...spare cars?
Try again. Cite me one example at Monaco.....please........

Edited by jj2728, 10 January 2012 - 03:06.


#16556 Craven Morehead

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:15

Monaco 2010 was bullshit penalty. I was so mad, because i thought "Green flag, race". :mad:


agreed :up:

#16557 Raelene

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:57

Lol...spare cars?
Try again. Cite me one example at Monaco.....please........


NOT SURE WHY YOU ARE SUCH A SMART ARSE...but let me explain

I didn't say it (the spare car example) was at Monaco... I said what MS did was TACTICAL...I then compared it to when they used spare cars, you do remember those days. and that after a crash at the start of the race, a driver could just leave his car where it was, ie TACTICS - so that the race would be restarted and he could jump into the spare car. You see, if he had of rolled the car off the track, then the race would not be restarted, therefore he couldn't jump into the spare car.

I was comparing the TACTICS....not too hard to understand surely?

Edited by Raelene, 10 January 2012 - 04:40.


#16558 DanardiF1

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:49

Monaco 2010 was bullshit penalty. I was so mad, because i thought "Green flag, race". :mad:


+1

It was a flash of genius that caught everyone by surprise... Classic Michael. Unfortunately it caught the stewards by surprise, and they didn't like that, so they gave him the bullshit penalty as you so aptly describe it!

Why throw the green flag unless you want a scramble for the line where places could be made up? Especially at Monaco where overtaking is so tough. That's what made it even better, that it was on Alonso going into one of the most narrow corners in F1 at Antony Noghes!

#16559 spa08

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 07:10

How is that doubtful?

Schu would have won the titles in 1996 and 1997 in the Benetton. He nearly won it for Ferrari in 1997.


Believe what you want my friend  ;)

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#16560 Madras

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:03

Schu would have won 1999 if he hadnt broken his leg.

Edited by Madras, 10 January 2012 - 08:03.


#16561 Raelene

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:20

Believe what you want my friend ;)


why do you think he couldn't have won it had he stayed?

i certainly also believe he probably would have won (and again in 99)

#16562 walkindude

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 08:44

An attempt to stop the bickering around here.A pretty nice interview from 2002.

http://videa.hu/vide...tMuYgIg09NAv9JN

#16563 Group B

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:02

Good stuff, thanks. :up:

#16564 Boing 2

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:19

I don't think there are many people alive who would disagree with that being deliberate. Ross Brawn is the only person to my knowledge that has insinuated it was a deliberate tactic when he was interviewed when he first went to Honda. He said behind the scenes Michael was remorseful, and if I had the article I'd share it. Anyway thats an incident that he would not be proud of but there are plenty where he showed his greatness IMO.


That's fair enough, I wouldn't argue the guy had plenty of great drives, I simply run out of patience with those who blame all his flaws on others.

#16565 tifosiMac

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:20

That's fair enough, I wouldn't argue the guy had plenty of great drives, I simply run out of patience with those who blame all his flaws on others.

Well thats fair enough too but they are only cheating themselves in that case, and it really shouldn't annoy you. :)

#16566 Boing 2

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:38

When I see a driver doing something obviously dirty and see a poster criticise him for it only to be labelled a racist/hater/basher/sore loser etc I think that goes beyond people cheating themselves. At that point they are abusing other people to deflect deserved criticism from their favoured driver which I don't have a lot of time for.

#16567 tifosiMac

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:51

Hamilton impressed with Button 'team'
http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

Just to confirm how important driver teams are for one driver to beat other guy. So, a lot depend from the team you have.

But thats just an article that quotes the original Autosport articles which has been extensively discussed this last week. Crash.net seem to pick quotes and write articles about them as though they are new stories and in this case it isn't. Not that this is the place to discuss it, but Both Lewis and Jenson have been complimentary concerning how they approach the sport and its nice to see Lewis acknowledging Jenson's successfull integration in the team.

#16568 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:16

But thats just an article that quotes the original Autosport articles which has been extensively discussed this last week. Crash.net seem to pick quotes and write articles about them as though they are new stories and in this case it isn't. Not that this is the place to discuss it, but Both Lewis and Jenson have been complimentary concerning how they approach the sport and its nice to see Lewis acknowledging Jenson's successfull integration in the team.

I mean the driver team plays role in the battle between drivers. It is one team against other team. So, not everything depend from the driver. One part of team work is car setup.

Edited by ivand911, 10 January 2012 - 11:17.


#16569 Sakae

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:31

Hamilton impressed with Button 'team'
http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

Just to confirm how important driver teams are for one driver to beat other guy. So, a lot depend from the team you have.

Yeah, a lot of love at McLaren these days. Was it the same when Alonso was there? So Button had nice technical team around him, and Hami did not? What the shame.

#16570 jj2728

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 13:01

NOT SURE WHY YOU ARE SUCH A SMART ARSE...but let me explain

I didn't say it (the spare car example) was at Monaco... I said what MS did was TACTICAL...I then compared it to when they used spare cars, you do remember those days. and that after a crash at the start of the race, a driver could just leave his car where it was, ie TACTICS - so that the race would be restarted and he could jump into the spare car. You see, if he had of rolled the car off the track, then the race would not be restarted, therefore he couldn't jump into the spare car.

I was comparing the TACTICS....not too hard to understand surely?


Gets your dander up when I call you out does it not, then the name calling begins....
So, let me get this right, you are saying that what Schumacher did during the third qualifying session at Monaco 2006 was tactical and no different than the day when a driver could abandon a wrecked car after a start line accident and jump into his spare car( examples: 1998 Belgian GP start, Derek Warwick 1990 Italian GP). I find it strange how you could compare the two. In your originl post you seem to imply that a driver would leave his car in the middle of the track purposely so as to cause a restart. I hardly think so. A wrecked F1 car pretty much stays parked where it ended up, the driver has little choice in the matter.
But back to Schumacher, sure it was tactical and it backfired badly for him didn't it? Alsonso was 2/10ths of second quicker than him and he decided that it would be best to park his car in the middle of the track to block his rival....got him demoted to the back of the grid IIRC and is but one reason why I will never IMHO consider him to be the greatest.....

#16571 Raelene

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 13:28

Man this is hard work but you finally got it...yes what he did was tactical. that the tactic didn't pay off wasn't what was being discussed

now re: a broken car not being able to get off the racing line....really....youve never ever seen a driver manage to get a broken car off the track..... maybe you only listen to F1 and not actually watch it because you've just said one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum in over 12 years. Congratulations.

Suggest you get some old videos and watch F1 back in the SC days.

goodnight

#16572 jj2728

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 15:12

now re: a broken car not being able to get off the racing line....really....youve never ever seen a driver manage to get a broken car off the track..... maybe you only listen to F1 and not actually watch it because you've just said one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum in over 12 years. Congratulations.


I've probably been to more races around the world than you've ever seen on tv, so stop with the belittlement and grow up a bit. And no, I have never seen a driver push the destroyed remains of a car off the track, what I have seen are drivers getting as quickly as possible away from their car after an accident. Your remarks give silly a whole new meaning.....more along the lines of living in cloud cookoo land.

#16573 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 15:40

Schu would have won 1999 if he hadnt broken his leg.

I agree

Hamilton impressed with Button 'team'
http://www.crash.net...tm_campaign=rss

Just to confirm how important driver teams are for one driver to beat other guy. So, a lot depend from the team you have.

I'm just wondering where its ever been implied that Rosberg has better support than Schumacher, also Lewis is consistently better than Jenson in qualifying, more often than not he suffers with strategy. However whats certain is that Schumacher always had better support than his teammates during his time at Ferrari so does he always need this level of support to be succesful?

#16574 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 16:10

I agree


I'm just wondering where its ever been implied that Rosberg has better support than Schumacher, also Lewis is consistently better than Jenson in qualifying, more often than not he suffers with strategy. However whats certain is that Schumacher always had better support than his teammates during his time at Ferrari so does he always need this level of support to be succesful?


It hasn't been implied anywhere, I think, though the LH/JB analogy from one perspective is not bad at all. This is OT, but Hamilton's comments about JB's technical team, is quite telling, IMHO. I seriously doubt that Hamilton's side of the garage is less adept professionally than Button's. What defines them as a 'team' is the ability to work together successfully towards a common goal on a day by day, minute by minute basis. In that, I think the driver is the decisive factor. I see JB as being proactive, for instance in strategies and communication, whereas LH is not. He questions, when JB decides, in a manner of speaking. I see something similar at Merc. MS has always been proactive, whereas NR seems to be less effective in that field. So I think that the kind of "support" you are speaking of, is not given, it is achieved, and is an integral part of racecraft.

Edited by Szoelloe, 10 January 2012 - 16:10.


#16575 xlr8

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 16:42

Schu would have won 1999 if he hadnt broken his leg.

Even schumi's biggest hater shouldn't be disagree with this.

#16576 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:07

I agree


I'm just wondering where its ever been implied that Rosberg has better support than Schumacher, also Lewis is consistently better than Jenson in qualifying, more often than not he suffers with strategy. However whats certain is that Schumacher always had better support than his teammates during his time at Ferrari so does he always need this level of support to be succesful?

I mean the driver team have role in team mates battle. I don't say MS didn't receive enough support, just driver teams are different and some teams a better.


#16577 Sakae

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:17

I do not know whether Schumacher needs more support than his team mate, but I can potentially envision situation when he is conducting pre-race in-depth survey of issues he has on his mind, which might be a std. check list he has extended. But, that's my speculation only. What I would like to know what was cause for delta in his performance between FP(s) and Quali. Drop off for him was startling, and I suspect that his displeasure with that kind of degradation was quite genuine. All year around one could almost bet a farm on that.

Perhaps type of tire in relationship to fuel load had something to do with it?

Edited by Sakae, 10 January 2012 - 17:22.


#16578 Craven Morehead

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:18

...stop with the belittlement and grow up a bit. ...Your remarks give silly a whole new meaning.....more along the lines of living in cloud cookoo land.


Ironic

Edited by Craven Morehead, 10 January 2012 - 17:28.


#16579 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:21

It hasn't been implied anywhere, I think, though the LH/JB analogy from one perspective is not bad at all. This is OT, but Hamilton's comments about JB's technical team, is quite telling, IMHO. I seriously doubt that Hamilton's side of the garage is less adept professionally than Button's. What defines them as a 'team' is the ability to work together successfully towards a common goal on a day by day, minute by minute basis. In that, I think the driver is the decisive factor. I see JB as being proactive, for instance in strategies and communication, whereas LH is not. He questions, when JB decides, in a manner of speaking. I see something similar at Merc. MS has always been proactive, whereas NR seems to be less effective in that field. So I think that the kind of "support" you are speaking of, is not given, it is achieved, and is an integral part of racecraft.

Thats interesting in how it played out, both Lewis and Rosberg stronger in qualifying, Jenson and Schumacher stronger in the races, inparticular Jenson, so that could be the proactice part coming into play.

I mean the driver team have role in team mates battle. I don't say MS didn't receive enough support, just driver teams are different and some teams a better.

If you read above it would suggest Schumacher had similar support to Jenson with the both of them giving better feedback for their engineers to process

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#16580 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:24

Thats interesting in how it played out, both Lewis and Rosberg stronger in qualifying, Jenson and Schumacher stronger in the races, inparticular Jenson, so that could be the proactice part coming into play.


If you read above it would suggest Schumacher had similar support to Jenson with the both of them giving better feedback for their engineers to process


uhmm, no, not necessarily. What I mean is that this is not unidirectional in their case. Under given circumstances, they process the engineers feedback and can decide on it, if there are options. Whereas the other two tend to give feedback, and let their respective engineers make the decision. Than we hear complaints about the team's wrong strategy. Not saying though that is always the case, just to be clear. And what I am speaking of has nothing to do with the quality of the feedback they give.

Edited by Szoelloe, 10 January 2012 - 17:36.


#16581 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:27

I do not know whether Schumacher needs more support than his team mate, but I can potentially envision situation when he is conducting pre-race in-depth survey of issues he has on his mind, which might be a std. check list he has extended. But, that's my speculation only. What I would like to know what was cause for delta in his performance between FP(s) and Quali. Drop off for him was startling, and I suspect that his displeasure with that kind of degradation was quite genuine. All year around one could almost bet a farm on that.

Perhaps type of tire in relationship to fuel load had something to do with it?

My understanding though is that data is shared between the drivers so any shortcoming has to be with drivng style

#16582 Sakae

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:38

My understanding though is that data is shared between the drivers so any shortcoming has to be with drivng style

So, in FP he got good information, and Saturday he forgot how to drive a car? Is that's what is being suggested in here?

#16583 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 17:45

Thats interesting in how it played out, both Lewis and Rosberg stronger in qualifying, Jenson and Schumacher stronger in the races, inparticular Jenson, so that could be the proactice part coming into play.

If you read above it would suggest Schumacher had similar support to Jenson with the both of them giving better feedback for their engineers to process

Yeah, I am convinced that MS finish this year behind Nico only because of bad luck.

My understanding though is that data is shared between the drivers so any shortcoming has to be with drivng style

Cars can be set up differently(maybe 1000 different settings). I don't believe the cars was really the same all the time.

Michael Schumacher 2011 Season Tribute(not exactly ,but still)
http://www.dailymoti...on-tribute_auto

Edited by ivand911, 10 January 2012 - 18:19.


#16584 Group B

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 18:08

Even schumi's biggest hater shouldn't be disagree with this.

:lol:
You seriously underate a couple of resident MS haters.

#16585 DutchCruijff

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 18:22

http://www.youtube.c...GcuiQ...Volumes up, lights off and enjoy.

#16586 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 18:24

Real fan with W01 copy:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=2kguzQXLXBE
:eek:

MS at AMG testdrive:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=n3tZcqCXFgs

Michael Schumacher 20 Years
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
Sauber looks sad.

Edited by ivand911, 10 January 2012 - 18:52.


#16587 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:00

So, in FP he got good information, and Saturday he forgot how to drive a car? Is that's what is being suggested in here?



Cars can be set up differently(maybe 1000 different settings). I don't believe the cars was really the same all the time.

No i would imagine they would be different because of different driving styles otherwise it would be simpler for him to copy what Rosberg is doing if he keeps having problems in qualifying, anything else seems to be funny goings on which i very much doubt

#16588 walkindude

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:03

http://www.youtube.c...GcuiQ...Volumes up, lights off and enjoy.

This is just so perfect.The setting,the sound,the sensation of speed and the drivers.The onboard of Mika is so unbelievable.How he hits every apex perfectly and then schumacher just having that tiny bit extra.Thoroughly enjoyed it.I would gladly ditch HD coverage for cameras that can give the sensation of speed as in this video.

#16589 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:11

No i would imagine they would be different because of different driving styles otherwise it would be simpler for him to copy what Rosberg is doing if he keeps having problems in qualifying, anything else seems to be funny goings on which i very much doubt

They set up the car for different part of the race. To be fast for different fuel levels. Different strategy. In the normal races MS finish there, where he could finish even if he qualify better.

#16590 tifosiMac

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:33

MS at AMG testdrive:
http://www.youtube.c...p;v=n3tZcqCXFgs

This was around the time Michael seduced Frentzen's girlfriend Corina wasn't it? lol Sly dog. :p

#16591 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:46

This was around the time Michael seduced Frentzen's girlfriend Corina wasn't it? lol Sly dog. :p

I think MS started dating Corina when he was in F1? She break up with HH earlier. But, I guess she was the one for him.

Edited by ivand911, 11 January 2012 - 06:40.


#16592 tifosiMac

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 19:50

I think MS started dating Corina when he was in F1? She break up with FF earlier.

You are right but she left Frentzen and shortly after got with Michael who was his ex teammate. I remember reading things were a bit tense between the two over it for obvious reasons. I found this on it but it is planet f1 afterall:

Frentzen, meanwhile, had embarked on a doomed Formula 3000 campaign iwhich set his career back. To cap it all his girlfriend Corinna Betsch left him at the end of 1991. She paired up with one of his former team mates, eventually becoming Corinna Schumacher…


http://www.f1fanatic...mercedes-years/

Can't blame Michael though. :)

#16593 Concorde

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:01

An attempt to stop the bickering around here.A pretty nice interview from 2002.

http://videa.hu/vide...tMuYgIg09NAv9JN

Thanks, was good seeing that again. :up:

#16594 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:02

You are right but she left Frentzen and shortly after got with Michael who was his ex teammate. I remember reading things were a bit tense between the two over it for obvious reasons. I found this on it but it is planet f1 afterall:



http://www.f1fanatic...mercedes-years/

Can't blame Michael though. :)

Yeah, she for sure met MS when she was with HH. I remember article where three of them was doing physical exercises. Corina was described there as HH girlfriend. So ,they three were pretty close.

My favourite MS interview:
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
It was the first and last cheat in his career. :p

Funny moment from 2011:
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by ivand911, 11 January 2012 - 06:39.


#16595 metz

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:03

You are right but she left Frentzen and shortly after got with Michael who was his ex teammate. I remember reading things were a bit tense between the two over it for obvious reasons. I found this on it but it is planet f1 afterall:



http://www.f1fanatic...mercedes-years/

Can't blame Michael though. :)

Once again Schumacher took advantage of Frentzen's set-up skills. ;)

#16596 spa08

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:12

Schu would have won 1999 if he hadnt broken his leg.


He would have also won the 07 and 08 titles if he hadn't have retired :lol:

#16597 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:13

They set up the car for different part of the race. To be fast for different fuel levels. Different strategy. In the normal races MS finish there, where he could finish even if he qualify better.

So all things being equal Schumacher should be quicker than Rosberg in the race because Rosberg sets his car up more for qualifying?

#16598 hammibal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:15

He would have also won the 07 and 08 titles if he hadn't have retired :lol:

Actually there's a strong possibilty that he would have done going on his 2006 form

#16599 F1Champion

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:15

Suzuka 2000 was the best qualifying session ever in my opinion, extremely tense, no room for error, each driver pushing the other on and the margins were wafer thin.

The race was great to watch too, extreme pressure and two top drives from Mika and Michael.

OT - I reckon Michael would of won in 1999, and got an 8th title for it, but in some ways it makes his career even more special as came back from a serious injury with no decrease in speed to destroy the opposition in Malaysia.

Edited by F1Champion, 10 January 2012 - 20:17.


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#16600 ivand911

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 20:21

So all things being equal Schumacher should be quicker than Rosberg in the race because Rosberg sets his car up more for qualifying?

Yeah, he was faster in the races than Nico. I guess you didn't check. Check here:
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php