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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#16651 jj2728

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 02:04

I too am perplexed with this bold declaration by number of "experts" on this BB that unless you can drive a car competitively on latest specification tires, than you are not fit to drive in F1. (Thus telling MS to retire). I am rather thinking that sometimes it is more difficult to unlearn your craft which you honed over a decade or longer, and then re-learn again, than starting from scratch, which essentially many have done. Vettel, would be one of them, whereas Webber, like Schumacher, took their time.


What are you saying?
That it is tougher for someone like Schumacher to adapt to the new regs, ie., tires, than it is for someone like Vettel?
Or that Shumacher and Webber took a decade to hone their race carft whereas Vettel honed his almost from the start of his F1 career?

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#16652 Sakae

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:03

What are you saying?
That it is tougher for someone like Schumacher to adapt to the new regs, ie., tires, than it is for someone like Vettel?
Or that Shumacher and Webber took a decade to hone their race carft whereas Vettel honed his almost from the start of his F1 career?

Well maybe. I used to be pretty good as a junior on the hockey skates. Then I had for several years’ figure skating blades, and once when I borrowed hockey skates again, I was a laughing stock that day. Different technique altogether. I imagine that Schumacher might have taken many more adjustments than Sebastian, although last year it was getting better. To be sure, I would like to see him to drive a few laps on Bridgestone’s just for comparison.



#16653 ivand911

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 08:43

They were using different tyres. He's fast but he wasn't the fastest on the day he tested as it looks like ont he video.

Are you sure we saw his fastest lap in the video? He tested all three kart types. What tyres he used then, I can't tell from the pictures. For sure some guys tried to prove something against him there.

Edited by ivand911, 30 January 2012 - 08:50.


#16654 Gintonious

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:47

Would love it if he went back to the old livery for his helmet, would be awesome!

#16655 as65p

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:50

Well maybe. I used to be pretty good as a junior on the hockey skates. Then I had for several years’ figure skating blades, and once when I borrowed hockey skates again, I was a laughing stock that day. Different technique altogether. I imagine that Schumacher might have taken many more adjustments than Sebastian, although last year it was getting better. To be sure, I would like to see him to drive a few laps on Bridgestone’s just for comparison.


Pics please! :D

#16656 cheapracer

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 13:07

I think if there wasn't the artifice of requiring to run two completely different tires during a race, as well as use tires that are deliberately designed to be a bit of a mystery, the field might be mixed differently.


Generally my sentiments for F1 at the moment, "Eff" the tyre crap, put 'rock hards' on them all and let the teams, drivers and cars sort it out - tyres should have no great bearing on results ... and I feel sorry for all the drivers these days being artificially held back.

Pics please! :D


Your hankering to see a man in figure skaters blades??

Edited by cheapracer, 30 January 2012 - 13:08.


#16657 as65p

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 15:08

Your hankering to see a man in figure skaters blades??


You don't have a sense of humour?

#16658 cheapracer

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 21:22

You don't have a sense of humour?


Did I not display humour?

..or do you need one of these :lol: to identify with?


#16659 Augurk

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:38

All depends on whose trying to pass him.......

Well it certainly won't be Rubens.

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#16660 Hacklerf

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:57

Check it out, Scarbs was at Mercedes and participating in the engine build challenge, look who done it fastest!
http://scarbsf1.word...uild-challenge/

#16661 spacekid

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:31

Check it out, Scarbs was at Mercedes and participating in the engine build challenge, look who done it fastest!
http://scarbsf1.word...uild-challenge/


Yay! Finally Michael was faster than Nico :clap:

 ;)

#16662 chrisaix

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:38

Yay! Finally Michael was faster than Nico :clap:

;)


And by a good margin of 15s  ;)

#16663 ivand911

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 13:36

Schumacher is not scared to get his hand’s dirty :)
Posted Image
Tyre change under 3 sec.
Posted Image
Guys from here I command the DRS.
Posted Image
This is how it is done.
Posted Image
See, I like 2atm at the front tyres.
http://www.tonykart....php?ID_news=274

Edited by ivand911, 31 January 2012 - 13:41.


#16664 cheapracer

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 14:19

Schumacher is not scared to get his hand’s dirty :)


Yay! Finally Michael was faster than Nico :clap:




Michael Schumacher is a Mechanic by trade.

#16665 ivand911

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 15:07

andrewbensonf1: Some Schumacher fans questioning blog claim he's a shadow of former greatness. You think he's driving at same level as when he won 7 titles?

andrewbensonf1: To Schumi fans: a) am not biased; b) he will always be a great for what achieved; c) he's obviously not as good as was, which was brilliant

Edited by ivand911, 31 January 2012 - 15:10.


#16666 DutchCruijff

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 16:13

"I do not think he will extend his contract,” the Austrian (Berger) told Auto Motor und Sport.
“He will be tired. I have to admit he drove better in 2011 than in 2010, especially in the second half of the season, and I can imagine he can improve even on that but still he has no chance against Rosberg.

“Schumacher will have to admit that, with an age over 40, it’s impossible to beat a young driver on the level of Rosberg.”

Both of them are a f*cking joke. Gerhard for his comments, Benson for his selective quotes. Numbskulls.

#16667 spacekid

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 16:53

"I do not think he will extend his contract,” the Austrian (Berger) told Auto Motor und Sport.
“He will be tired. I have to admit he drove better in 2011 than in 2010, especially in the second half of the season, and I can imagine he can improve even on that but still he has no chance against Rosberg.

“Schumacher will have to admit that, with an age over 40, it’s impossible to beat a young driver on the level of Rosberg.”

Both of them are a f*cking joke. Gerhard for his comments, Benson for his selective quotes. Numbskulls.


I think thats quite a harsh criticism. I've only seen the Andrew Benson quotes above, but I agree - Schumi is not driving at the same level as when he won his titles, which was brilliant. He just isn't at that same level.

I also respect Gehard a lot and don't think he's being unfair in his comments. Rosberg has been superb, and Michael has struggled against him. If anything I think its a testament to how good Michael used to be that he can lose pace and at the age of 42/43 still put in some really decent showings against much younger and such talented opposition as we have in the field.

I do still hold a very slim hope that Michael can build upon the improvements of 2011 and mount a decent challenge in 2012. But I have my doubts. Won't stop be ever being a fan, but he simply isn't what he was.

#16668 Diablobb81

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 17:46

But there is a big difference between "not being the same as before" and "being a shadow of former greatness".

#16669 spacekid

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 18:10

But there is a big difference between "not being the same as before" and "being a shadow of former greatness".


I think we can put that down in part to journalistic hyperbole.

I think Gerhad's comments appear fairly well measured and honest.

#16670 DutchCruijff

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 18:40

"but still he has no chance against Rosberg.

“Schumacher will have to admit that, with an age over 40, it’s impossible to beat a young driver on the level of Rosberg.”

If at least you watched last season carefully, as Gerhard certainly didn't, he matched Rosberg and in actual fact really did beat him. To say he has no chance? Extremely desperate & bullshit.

#16671 cheapracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:41

Not sure why ex-F1 drivers believe that they need to be quoted. Also just before the season starts is really a silly time to be making statements when you consider MS got stronger in the last half of 2011 just finished and is going into new car rules more suited to him.

Very much a "wait and see" just now and guesses either way from anybody are pretty silly.



#16672 xlr8

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:48

"When an elephant is in trouble even a frog will kick him."

Gerhard berger's comments on Schumacher sums it up pretty nicely.

Edited by xlr8, 01 February 2012 - 04:48.


#16673 Mastah

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:26

Also just before the season starts is really a silly time to be making statements when you consider MS got stronger in the last half of 2011 just finished and is going into new car rules more suited to him.


I don't think you can call being trashed in Abu Dhabi as a sign of getting stronger.

Also what makes you think 2012 rules will suit him more?

#16674 Raelene

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:43

God I wish people would read properly - cheapracer said "last half of 2011...do you actually need stuff highlighted to understand..

#16675 Mastah

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:58

And in which half of 2011 Abu Dhabi GP was? Maybe you should listen to your own advice.

#16676 cheapracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:01

God I wish people would read properly - cheapracer said "last half of 2011...do you actually need stuff highlighted to understand..


When I went to school is was actually called "reading and comprehension".

I don't think you can call being trashed in Abu Dhabi as a sign of getting stronger.


He was last on the grid and finished 12th in China in 2004 so he must have been crap that year too.


Also what makes you think 2012 rules will suit him more?


It's well documented in this thread.

Edited by cheapracer, 01 February 2012 - 07:01.


#16677 Raelene

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:16

And in which half of 2011 Abu Dhabi GP was? Maybe you should listen to your own advice.



well maybe you could add all the other races in the last half...I mean it doesn't just relate to one race...or is that how you understand "last half" ...sigh...

#16678 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:36

Guys, there is no point arguing Mastah. His comments are always silly, just ignore him

I'd be interested in Berger's view on Webber vs Vettel if he thinks Ms doesn't have a chance against nico

#16679 Mastah

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:17

He was last on the grid and finished 12th in China in 2004 so he must have been crap that year too.


well maybe you could add all the other races in the last half...I mean it doesn't just relate to one race...or is that how you understand "last half" ...sigh...


The problem with "Schumi got stronger at the end of 2011" is that there is no proof whatsoever he was indeed getting stronger. Actually there is a proof he was getting weaker, as he couldn't repeat in the second half of the year his display from Malaysia, where he trashed teammate. All year they were more or less on the same pace (by that I mean within 3 tenths) with few dominant races from Nico.

It's well documented in this thread.


I've searched and except posts from Schumi fans I didn't find anything which could be classified as well documented. What would be welcome is article or even simple quotes from respected journalist or someone from F1 paddock, which would explain why car built according to 2012 rules will be more suitable to Schumi's needs.



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#16680 Sakae

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:08

@Mastah: No one will give you any guarantees in terms of predictions for 2012. I think you know that well, so why ask? Question rather is how do you know that driver's had not extracted all what was car capable off last year? Michael acts as a lighting rod for years, and we, his fans, are use to it, but sometime I wonder motives behind all of this. Think about if you would be able to accomplish what he has, and then judge him.

#16681 DutchCruijff

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:03

Guys, there is no point arguing Mastah. His comments are always silly, just ignore him

I'd be interested in Berger's view on Webber vs Vettel if he thinks Ms doesn't have a chance against nico

Well actually, Gerhard thinks Schumacher is as good as Webber and that Nico is as good as Vettel...

#16682 Richardc

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:18

Webber didn't outrace Vettel once this year, Schumacher certainly did Nico!

#16683 ivand911

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:47

Lewis did a little joke with MS. I hope this year he will have to leave one car width in the corners for MS to overtake him.

#16684 schubacca

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 15:24

Andrew Benson really seems to have it in for MS.

Of course he hides behind journalist impartiality, however, whenever he gets a chance to deliver a sideways blow to MS he does....

Rational MS fans know that MS is not what he was. We also know that he is still better than the majority of F1 drivers on the grid. We also know that he is more or less on the same footing as his team mate at the moment.

Benson should start railing on LH a little, or MW, or FM.... He wont do that because that would mean that he has to hold his favorites to the same standards that he criticizes MS.

Pathetic....

#16685 schubacca

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 15:34

The problem with "Schumi got stronger at the end of 2011" is that there is no proof whatsoever he was indeed getting stronger. Actually there is a proof he was getting weaker, as he couldn't repeat in the second half of the year his display from Malaysia, where he trashed teammate. All year they were more or less on the same pace (by that I mean within 3 tenths) with few dominant races from Nico.



I've searched and except posts from Schumi fans I didn't find anything which could be classified as well documented. What would be welcome is article or even simple quotes from respected journalist or someone from F1 paddock, which would explain why car built according to 2012 rules will be more suitable to Schumi's needs.


Mmmmmmmm, but will you at least agree that MS was stronger in 2011 than he was in 2010?

If you require documentation, it can be found in the points scored in 2010 vs. 2011.

72 vs. 76

Also we can see the point disparity between MS and NR diminish in 2011

2010 NR (142) MS (72)
2011 NR (89) MS (76)

I could plot a graph but....... I think that the line is going up....

I agree that MS got weaker in the last 1/19th of the season.;)

Stats....

#16686 cheapracer

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 15:51

I've searched and except posts from Schumi fans I didn't find anything which could be classified as well documented. What would be welcome is article or even simple quotes from respected journalist or someone from F1 paddock, which would explain why car built according to 2012 rules will be more suitable to Schumi's needs.


Well there it is, you're simply lazy, go find it all yourself - I think maybe you take your "Mastah" nick literally :lol:

Journalists are no more than spectators like forum members with a cross range of knowledge and in fact there's more to be seen on a TV screen than there is trackside.


#16687 spacekid

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 19:27

"but still he has no chance against Rosberg.

“Schumacher will have to admit that, with an age over 40, it’s impossible to beat a young driver on the level of Rosberg.”

If at least you watched last season carefully, as Gerhard certainly didn't, he matched Rosberg and in actual fact really did beat him. To say he has no chance? Extremely desperate & bullshit.


Fair enough, I agree that Berger's opinion is strong, but it is just his opinion. I hope he's wrong.

I agree Michael showed much improvement between 2010 and 2011, but can't agree that he beat Nico. Those unfortunate accidents took their toll on his points, and despite his at times pleasing race pace the quali pace was still a concern.

Saying Schumi has no chance is wrong, saying that it will be very hard for Michael to beat Nico over the season I still think is a fair comment. If Schumi can sort out his quali all could change, but if that 0.3-4s gap is there in Q3 in Melbourne I reckon its gonna be very tough.

Edited by spacekid, 01 February 2012 - 19:28.


#16688 DutchCruijff

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 19:40

Why is everyone infatuated with his Qualifying pace? If he turns up with the goods on Sunday, precisely what difference does it make with a car like the W02? If he somehow qualifies in front of Ferrari, he inevitably fall back in the race. It's quite clear, and rightly so, his focus is on Sunday which is precisely, for me anyway, he has been a better driver than Nico in 2011.

#16689 spacekid

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 19:45

Why is everyone infatuated with his Qualifying pace? If he turns up with the goods on Sunday, precisely what difference does it make with a car like the W02? If he somehow qualifies in front of Ferrari, he inevitably fall back in the race. It's quite clear, and rightly so, his focus is on Sunday which is precisely, for me anyway, he has been a better driver than Nico in 2011.


Well for me track position. There have been too many times he's qualified a few places lower than Nico and subsequently got tangled up with a Petrov or a Senna. And it isn't just the ultimate quali lap, its the way he often has to burn an extra set of softs to feel 'safe' in Q1 when Nico gets comfortably through on only 1 set of hard tyres. These things add up to make life harder than it should, and I'm certain its just because he's lost a bit of pace rather than a fundamental set up choice for the race. It just costs too much to have been a strategy choice all through the season to sacrifice quali pace.

#16690 black magic

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 19:46

is there any point which gerhard makes that we can disagree with?

I am an unashameably a huge fan of michael but I cant see him go beyond his current contract unless somehow the car is at the front of the grid much as I have enjoyed his return, truth is he is not the dominant force despite the fact that he has justified his return in terms of performance.

no he has not disgraced himself and in many ways one of the most successful comings out of retirement we have seen in any sport given the premium on physical performance and the level of competition in which he finds himself.

#16691 DutchCruijff

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 20:04

Well for me track position. There have been too many times he's qualified a few places lower than Nico and subsequently got tangled up with a Petrov or a Senna. And it isn't just the ultimate quali lap, its the way he often has to burn an extra set of softs to feel 'safe' in Q1 when Nico gets comfortably through on only 1 set of hard tyres. These things add up to make life harder than it should, and I'm certain its just because he's lost a bit of pace rather than a fundamental set up choice for the race. It just costs too much to have been a strategy choice all through the season to sacrifice quali pace.

Fair comments, but I feel pushing yourself to the extreme in Qualifying with the W02 is more of a detriment than an advantage hence MS>Nico in races had it not been for certain avoidable incidents.

#16692 spacekid

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 20:17

is there any point which gerhard makes that we can disagree with?

I am an unashameably a huge fan of michael but I cant see him go beyond his current contract unless somehow the car is at the front of the grid much as I have enjoyed his return, truth is he is not the dominant force despite the fact that he has justified his return in terms of performance.

no he has not disgraced himself and in many ways one of the most successful comings out of retirement we have seen in any sport given the premium on physical performance and the level of competition in which he finds himself.


A really big part of me wants to see Michael continue to see just how far he can take this thing - so long as he stays 'competitive', which I believe he still is at the moment. To be mixing it up with kids nearly half his age is impressive in any sport. Even sports like golf and snooker see the older guys finding it impossbile to keep up with the kids, they just seem to lose focus and drive and hence ability. Not Michael. And he may still have some improvements in him if the style of car and tyres comes towards him a bit.

#16693 spacekid

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 20:18

Fair comments, but I feel pushing yourself to the extreme in Qualifying with the W02 is more of a detriment than an advantage hence MS>Nico in races had it not been for certain avoidable incidents.


Yeah thats what the season came down to really - Michael looked more likely to either get the big result or get caught up in a silly incident because he was out of position from the start. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on how much that came down to a clear set up choice or just a bit of talent leakage.

Put it this way - for me there's room for improvement and I hope he can make the gains!

Edited by spacekid, 01 February 2012 - 20:20.


#16694 jj2728

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 20:19

Fair comments, but I feel pushing yourself to the extreme in Qualifying with the W02 is more of a detriment than an advantage hence MS>Nico in races had it not been for certain avoidable incidents.


And here I am thinking that Schumacher's lack of pace in qualifying was due to a conspiracy by Mercedes to prohibit him from qualifying higher than Nico when all this time it's been that qualifying higher on the grid is a detriment instead of an advantage. Then maybe, if they really want to challenge for race wins in 2012 they should either start form the very back of the grid or the pit lane.

#16695 Massa_f1

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:01

Lewis did a little joke with MS. I hope this year he will have to leave one car width in the corners for MS to overtake him.


Hamilton asked if it's difficult to leave the mandatory car-width when defending position: "Not for us. Maybe for Michael Schumacher.

Bit rich coming from Lewis.


#16696 Afterburner

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:09

And here I am thinking that Schumacher's lack of pace in qualifying was due to a conspiracy by Mercedes to prohibit him from qualifying higher than Nico when all this time it's been that qualifying higher on the grid is a detriment instead of an advantage. Then maybe, if they really want to challenge for race wins in 2012 they should either start form the very back of the grid or the pit lane.

:lol:

You have to admit, though, the place to be on the grid last year was usually either at the very front or towards the back. If you got caught in the middle, which was something like 6th-14th considering quali format (and accounting for HRT, Virgin, etc.) you generally tended to end up just behind guys that were difficult to overtake but also just ahead of the guys with all the extra sets of fresh tyres. Of course, it also depended on the track, but it typically wasn't a good place to be last year. :well: I have a feeling that with softer tyres, things will be much the same this year, which is why Mercedes needs to build a car that can safely hoist them above the likes of Renault and Force India and put them in contention with Ferrari/Macca on the odd occasion--and why Schumacher needs to up his game in qualifying.

#16697 ivand911

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:16

And every time the right answer is very fast car. I will just enjoy it, no matter what. If first 4 teams(with MGP) will be in 0,5sec, will be dream come true for me. Every weekend new favorite.

#16698 TheBunk

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 21:24

Funny how Benson keeps presenting himself as the all knowing oak.

I tip Schumacher for a win in 2012, the first for Merc.

#16699 Szoelloe

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:02

Hamilton asked if it's difficult to leave the mandatory car-width when defending position: "Not for us. Maybe for Michael Schumacher.

Bit rich coming from Lewis.



:rotfl: nooo waaaay, is this true? Guy has a sense of humour, got to admit a great dig, if true.

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#16700 Longtimefan

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 22:12

Not surprised about the Lewis comment, that guy is very arrogant and has a chip on his shoulder the size of a house.