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#16751 cheapracer

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 14:51

Who can forget Michael Schumacher hitting Villeneuve on purpose during last Grand Prix that year, for which he was disqualified and excluded from Championship. Move unanimously condemned in F1 paddock and by all reasonable F1 fans.


Yup, rotten frustrated moment and lowpoint of his F1 career that wasn't required although of course we don't know all that goes on between drivers in F1 that may have injected reason into it - did you see what JV did to MS at his pitstop in Spa '96 for example? that one was just barely caught on film but how many aren't?

The difference between you and I is this is all you remember whereas I remember and consider all 288 races in the whole.



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#16752 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 14:51

A couple of podiums, no more, maybe a gifted win unless the Benz suddenly performs miracles against 3 consistent top line teams of the past decade - lets be realistic here.




No I didn't make it up, plenty of posts on the subject but because you're lazy I'm not lifting a finger for you other than a middle one.


:rotfl:

Post of the day!!!!

#16753 Afterburner

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 14:54

No I didn't make it up, plenty of posts on the subject but because you're lazy I'm not lifting a finger for you other than a middle one.

Signature material. :rotfl:

#16754 ramad

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 15:10

:rotfl:

Post of the day!!!!

:lol:

Edited by ramad, 02 February 2012 - 15:11.


#16755 Sakae

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 16:43

The question was "who is Jacques Villeneuve?". How Senna or Prost are relevant to that :drunk: ?

Schumacher entered F1 arena and it’s on/off track culture when both drivers were involved in active racing. It is rather understandable to mature men that he carried forward traits of that culture, which included hard nose driving in defense. Nationalistically motivated media of course find their way how to treat drivers of that era, and applied double standard when reports were published. Your superficial approach to history and lack of effort to understand human condition is overwhelming, but not surprising; these are times we live in. There is link among those three drivers, it’s just you have failed to understand it, but I would say that’s your problem only, and no one else’s.



#16756 sharo

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 16:59

Prost did the same thing to Senna. Senna did the same thing to Prost.
Why are they heroes and Schumacher is a supervillain?

I guess because he did not do it the right way, didn't bulldoze JV out with no chance to continue :D

#16757 jj2728

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 17:23

No I didn't make it up, plenty of posts on the subject but because you're lazy I'm not lifting a finger for you other than a middle one.


Classy comment, well done...... :rolleyes:
I hope people remember that the next time you need some assistance....
But then again I forgot, you're superior to the rest of us so.....

#16758 spacekid

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 18:03

I see Jerez '97 has lifted its head again. It was a really sh*tty move, I hated, a lot of fans hated it, it was dissapointing, thats just the nature of the man. The insane will to win that gave us so many beautiful brilliant drives also produced some horrible moments. Thats the nature of the man, after 15 years I really do think its time to draw a line under that one. For me the brilliant moments have far, far outweighed the bad ones over the past 21 years, if you don't feel that way fine but after so long it is rather tedious so see this bought up over and over again.

Expectations for the season? I think cheapracer pretty much nailed it, if the W03 is competitive hopefully a few podiums, although even that will be tough. I can't see McLaren or Red Bull moving backwards over the winter so a win would be very unlikely I would have thought. Not impossible, but I think it would take a crazy situation.

#16759 Clark65

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 18:27

Like China? Sorry, I can't name more, because in so many races Schumi collided with someone and lost front wing, crashed or spun, so there are very few clean and normal races left to compare.


Schumacher collisions shouldn't stop you from naming more races. There are web pages that have all lap times recorded from each race. You should look at that and make comparison.
Should we consider China as a clean race? Rosberg had less fuel in his car and didn't start to save fuel until last 10-15 laps. So, he drove 3/4 of race with less fuel than Schumacher.
But let's take it as a clean and normal race.
Schumacher and Rosberg had 5 clean and normal races. Malaysia, China, Spain, India and Abu Dhabi. Result is MSC 3 - NR 2.
You will probaly disagree and find some silly reasons to support your theory.

Also, funny thing. If Schumacher was so poor compared to Rosberg (huge qualy gap, big race pace difference) and had all that collisions, broken FW, crashed and spuned a lot and also retired from 5 races, how come that he was only 13 points behind Rosberg at the end of season?

The question was "who is Jacques Villeneuve?". How Senna or Prost are relevant to that :drunk:?


OK, read carefully what you wrote. Concentrate on underlined part.

"1997 Formula 1 World Champion. Who can forget Michael Schumacher hitting Villeneuve on purpose during last Grand Prix that year, for which he was disqualified and excluded from Championship. Move unanimously condemned in F1 paddock and by all reasonable F1 fans."

Schumacher was condemned, but Prost and specially Senna were heroes. Similar things, double standard.

Answer on question "who is Jacques Villeneuve?" is, like you wrote, 1997 Formula 1 World Champion. Good and true answer.
But after that you simply couldn't resist, as it is in your troll-Schumacher hating nature, and you wrote two more sentences that had absolutly no other intention than to provoke. How were those two sentences relevant to question "who is Jacques Villeneuve?"?

If someone asks me "who is Alex Wurz?", should I answer "former F1 driver" and "David Coulthard tried stupid overtaking move on him and almost cut off his head"?

Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull Racing, 2010 and 2011 champions.


F1 started back in 1950. Could you name QWDC and QWCC for every year?

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#16760 MightyMoose

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 18:51

Any poster who claims the gap was 0.5 seconds average through the season in one reply, and in another lists a single race to highlight how bad MS is now has lost any credibility.

That's before he brings up past race misdemeanors for just the object of his hatred.

Quite sad that anyone can be so full of bile & capable of such ill-considered posting.

Crawl back under your stone you sad troll.

#16761 schubacca

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:19

Michael Schumacher


Races 288 (287 starts)
Championships 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Wins 91
Podiums 154
Career points 1,517
Pole positions 68
Fastest laps 76

---------------------------------------------
Haters gonna hate......

#16762 FenderJaguar

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:21

The thing that Jacques said - in which I think he was absolutely right - was that you could be angry but respect Senna for making his move against Prost because he said he meant to do it but that Michael never admits his faults - like Jerez 97. I think that interview was after Rascasse where he parked his car and once again smiled and said it was so unfortunate.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 02 February 2012 - 20:23.


#16763 FenderJaguar

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:24

Oh the stats...some fan must be hurting.

#16764 jj2728

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:28

Oh the stats...some fan must be hurting.


Well, you know the fanboyz like to toss the stats around when they begin to feel 'hated' and 'trolled' upon.

#16765 Clark65

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:41

The thing that Jacques said - in which I think he was absolutely right - was that you could be angry but respect Senna for making his move against Prost because he said he meant to do it but that Michael never admits his faults - like Jerez 97. I think that interview was after Rascasse where he parked his car and once again smiled and said it was so unfortunate.


Ok, let's get that myth corrected.

Here is what Senna said one year later:

"I said to myself, “OK, you try to work cleanly, and you get ****** by certain people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner, I will go for it and he better not turn in because he’s not going to make it.” And it just happened."


#16766 BRK

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:50

I don't understand why you lot have to keep feeding the idiots. There hasn't been a single development on the racing front since the off-season began and not a wheel turned on a 2012 car, there's literally nothing of substance to analyse as far as the racing is concerned and absolutely no reason at all to rehash old arguments. That the haters are attracted to this thread the moment Michael's back in the news for some reason is proof enough to me at least that these are just trolls looking for a good time on the interwebs.

20 years of watching their dreams fall apart and record after record smashed by an evil teuton of all people does that to certain people. Best leave it be. :lol:

#16767 Diablobb81

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 20:56

The thing that Jacques said - in which I think he was absolutely right - was that you could be angry but respect Senna for making his move against Prost because he said he meant to do it but that Michael never admits his faults - like Jerez 97. I think that interview was after Rascasse where he parked his car and once again smiled and said it was so unfortunate.


So it's more acceptable to do something premeditated and admit it that it is to do something in the heat of the moment.

Strong logic.

#16768 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 21:00

I don't understand why you lot have to keep feeding the idiots.

+1 :up:

#16769 schubacca

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 22:12

The thing that Jacques said - in which I think he was absolutely right - was that you could be angry but respect Senna for making his move against Prost because he said he meant to do it but that Michael never admits his faults - like Jerez 97. I think that interview was after Rascasse where he parked his car and once again smiled and said it was so unfortunate.


Only that MS said that he would have done things differently such as 1997.

You can feel free to hold on to that though ;)

PS: Those stats still stand ;)

#16770 schubacca

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 22:25

So it's more acceptable to do something premeditated and admit it that it is to do something in the heat of the moment.

Strong logic.



Yep, because premeditated murder is less of a crime than a crime of passion......

:)



#16771 jj2728

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 22:39

I don't understand why you lot have to keep feeding the idiots. There hasn't been a single development on the racing front since the off-season began and not a wheel turned on a 2012 car, there's literally nothing of substance to analyse as far as the racing is concerned and absolutely no reason at all to rehash old arguments. That the haters are attracted to this thread the moment Michael's back in the news for some reason is proof enough to me at least that these are just trolls looking for a good time on the interwebs.



Maybe some are, maybe some aren't. Things started to get wound up again of late due to some comments Berger made and yesterday the question was asked what would people expect of Schumacher if he has a car that can keep up with the front runners. Invariably it's gonna get folks wound up. It's also been mentioned that perhaps it was better for Schumacher to lay back in qualifying, and to that I disagreed. I mean serously, why would saving a set of tyres be any advantage if he's starting well back? It's that sort of reasoning that implies a desperate grasping of straws in order to justify not only non-performance, but a car that wasn't up to snuff. The front runners are going to be nigh untouchable anyhow so why wouldn't he want to start a race as close to the front as possible? One poster was accused of being lazy, something having to do with topic search, and told the only finger lifted for him would be the middle finger. That's childish stuff. Hell, I get name called and accused of being a troll. Sure there are people who make inane comments, but there are those that feel just as passionately against Schumacher as those that do, all for their own reasons for better or worse. Then there's the last resort, his stats are thrown out there. Ok, fine we get it. Yes his stats are superb and I doubt very much that they will be equalled, let alone surpassed, but how many times do we have to hear it? Just as how many times do we have to hear about the Hill and Villeneuve incidents? There are those that think some of his on track antics will tarnish an unquestionably phenomenal career, I've said as much. I've also said that he's not in my top 5 list of all time great F1 drivers, but that's just MHO and nothing more. I've also said that given the car, he's more than capable of winning again and that 2012 will be a make or break season for him, but we'll see. Anyhow, let's hope that 2012 is an exciting year not dominated by one team.






#16772 FenderJaguar

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 22:41

I'm saying it is a bit more honest and I am trying to get the point that Jacques was trying to make through to some of you who didn't get quite what he said. That's about it. I have a lot of respect for Michael on the racetrack and I wish some would try to be on a higher level of discussion and not see every different view as trolling.

#16773 genespleen

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 00:53

Ok, let's get that myth corrected.

Here is what Senna said one year later:

"I said to myself, “OK, you try to work cleanly, and you get ****** by certain people. All right, if tomorrow Prost beats me off the line, at the first corner, I will go for it and he better not turn in because he’s not going to make it.” And it just happened."


Thank you. It amazes me that some people still seek to whitewash what remains the single most blatant and willful case of ramming to decide a championship in the history of the sport.

#16774 TheBunk

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:31

"It was not a race. It was a demonstration of brilliance."

Stirling Moss about Schumacher at the 1996 Spanish GP

#16775 TheBunk

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:37


Schumacher holds these records:

Championship titles 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Consecutive titles 5 (2000–2004)
Championship won with most races left 6 (2002)
Largest championship-winning margin
(pre-2010 points system) 67 points (2002)
Race wins 91
Consecutive wins 7 (2004, Europe–Hungary)
Wins in a season 13 (72%) (2004)
Wins in a season for a runner-up 7 (2006)
Wins at Monza (Formula One) 5
Wins with one team 72 (Ferrari)
Wins at the same Grand Prix 8 (France)
Different Grands Prix won 22
Longest time between first and last wins 14 years, 32 days
Total years with a win 15 (1992–2006)
Consecutive years with a win 15 (1992–2006)
Second places 43
Consecutive top two finishes 15 (Brazil 2002–Japan 2002)
Podiums (Top 3 finishes) 154
Podium finishes in a season 17 (100%) (2002)
Consecutive podium finishes 19 (US 2001–Japan 2002)
Championship points 1,517
Points finishes 213
Consecutive points finishes 24 (Hungary 2001–Malaysia 2003)
Races / Laps / Distance led 142 races / 5,111 laps / 24,144 km[184]
Pole positions 68
Front row starts 115
Fastest laps 76
Fastest laps in a season 10 (2004)
Doubles (Pole and win) 40
Hat tricks (Pole, win and fastest lap) 22
Hat tricks in a season 5 in 2004
Races with one team 181 (Ferrari)

Nobody is ever gonna touch this guy.

Best memory I have was a race at the Hockenheim race track, pre butchering. And every time he came through there in his red Ferrari the crowds on the stands went absolutly crazy. The noise was deafening each and every lap.



#16776 hammibal

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:11

And there I am thinking that Schumacher "saving" a set of tyres and setting his car up for Sunday is rather an advantage as opposed to qualifying 5th/6th, wasting a set of tyres + gearing up for Quali, thus inevitably dropping back behind the Ferraris during the race and run the risk of Nico over-taking him too.

The qualifying difference was the same in 2010 as well

Michael will be delighted to see that Lewis is still chewing over Monza months later.

I can think of Canada as well. anyways the new one move etiquette should make for fairer racing

#16777 hammibal

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:25

Only that MS said that he would have done things differently such as 1997.

You can feel free to hold on to that though ;)

PS: Those stats still stand ;)

Maybe because he got punished for it and criticised by all and sunder plus of course he lost, no regrets about 1994 though

Thank you. It amazes me that some people still seek to whitewash what remains the single most blatant and willful case of ramming to decide a championship in the history of the sport.

Payback can be a bitch and it stuck a finger up to Prost's friend and fellow countryman Ballestre, President of the FIA

#16778 Raelene

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:32

Maybe because he got punished for it and criticised by all and sunder plus of course he lost, no regrets about 1994 though


and niether should he have any regrets about 1994.


#16779 Afterburner

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:43

I'm saying it is a bit more honest and I am trying to get the point that Jacques was trying to make through to some of you who didn't get quite what he said. That's about it. I have a lot of respect for Michael on the racetrack and I wish some would try to be on a higher level of discussion and not see every different view as trolling.

My thoughts exactly. :up:

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#16780 Raelene

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:01

I'm saying it is a bit more honest and I am trying to get the point that Jacques was trying to make through to some of you who didn't get quite what he said. That's about it. I have a lot of respect for Michael on the racetrack and I wish some would try to be on a higher level of discussion and not see every different view as trolling.


I certainly got what he said - I just think what he said was an absolute load of cr ap... to say that someone cheated with more class and integrity is laughable...

Edited by Raelene, 03 February 2012 - 06:35.


#16781 Craven Morehead

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:19

Payback can be a bitch and it stuck a finger up to Prost's friend and fellow countryman Ballestre, President of the FIA


sums it up nicely

Edited by Craven Morehead, 03 February 2012 - 06:19.


#16782 ivand911

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:54

Guys, isn't that Jacques quote very old? I think things changed very much since then. I think his opinion about MS comeback was positive. I think, I remember seeing them somewhere together(some occasions) and they respect each other. So, there isn't point for looking back.
MS is F1 driver ,he will give his best. If the best is enough, we will see. As I said, enough for me is podiums, some win will be perfect.

#16783 cheapracer

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:37

Oh the stats...some fan must be hurting.

I have a lot of respect for Michael on the racetrack and I wish some would try to be on a higher level of discussion and not see every different view as trolling.



Mate, how about you also see the trolls stats;

Adelaide, Jerez, Monaco, Austria, Hungary 99.99%

Any other of the 280+ races 0.01%

It's gets very very boring the same people spouting the same bullshit post after post after post, year after year after year.


I think that interview was after Rascasse where he parked his car and once again smiled and said it was so unfortunate.


That would include you by the way, bringing up Monaco 2006 and your opinion that no one asked for is your "higher level of discussion" is it.








#16784 cheapracer

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:06

Another thing that MS is gracious or is when another driver is hard on him he just gets on with it and doesn't whine on about it, here is JV himself yet again (one of many) chopping MS, this time into a wall but do you ever about it? No.



Since stats have been mentioned, did you know the next win that MS gets, if it happens, will equal the tally of wins of Senna and Prost put together (92) - that's of course officially dismissing his Spa 1994 win.

#16785 BRK

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:07

Maybe some are, maybe some aren't. Things started to get wound up again of late due to some comments Berger made and yesterday the question was asked what would people expect of Schumacher if he has a car that can keep up with the front runners. Invariably it's gonna get folks wound up. It's also been mentioned that perhaps it was better for Schumacher to lay back in qualifying, and to that I disagreed. I mean serously, why would saving a set of tyres be any advantage if he's starting well back? It's that sort of reasoning that implies a desperate grasping of straws in order to justify not only non-performance, but a car that wasn't up to snuff. The front runners are going to be nigh untouchable anyhow so why wouldn't he want to start a race as close to the front as possible? One poster was accused of being lazy, something having to do with topic search, and told the only finger lifted for him would be the middle finger. That's childish stuff. Hell, I get name called and accused of being a troll. Sure there are people who make inane comments, but there are those that feel just as passionately against Schumacher as those that do, all for their own reasons for better or worse. Then there's the last resort, his stats are thrown out there. Ok, fine we get it. Yes his stats are superb and I doubt very much that they will be equalled, let alone surpassed, but how many times do we have to hear it? Just as how many times do we have to hear about the Hill and Villeneuve incidents? There are those that think some of his on track antics will tarnish an unquestionably phenomenal career, I've said as much. I've also said that he's not in my top 5 list of all time great F1 drivers, but that's just MHO and nothing more. I've also said that given the car, he's more than capable of winning again and that 2012 will be a make or break season for him, but we'll see. Anyhow, let's hope that 2012 is an exciting year not dominated by one team.


Sometimes all it takes is one person to drag the thread downhill. All I saw were people discussing Berger's comments when someone barged in with the 'trashing' nonsense, others joining in for a cheap bash and soon enough we were in Jerez '97,Monaco '06 territory. Which have absolutely nothing to do with Berger's comments or Schumacher's performance in 2011..

As for your assessment of Schumacher the driver, to be honest for every critic that cannot see beyond his\her dislike of the man there are probably a hundred neutrals and observers that would put their bias aside and rank him as one of the greatest of all time, right at the very top, so it utterly doesn't matter IMHO.

Not much to be said about the stats thing, I don't see what's wrong with (gently ;)) reminding the detractors of Michael's tremendous success or that he was and still is immensely talented. Considering the rest see it fit for some reason to keep bringing '97 up, for example.

I think the thing that gets to many on the other side of the fence is the length of his tenure at the top. If Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna had somehow managed to win seven titles and 91 grands prix I bet they would have been the ones getting bashed, instead of MS. There's even been people that have admitted the antagonism would not have been as extreme had Schumacher 'only' won four or five titles. :lol:

Nevertheless, such petty stuff has never mattered in the long run, and will survive only as long as the minority among the generation that followed his career do. You'd only rarely see Fangio getting 'bashed' or his stats being held against his reputation as a legend for only ever wining in the best cars, jumping ship mid-season or using his teammate's cars to win (even though this was a common practice at the time, I believe).

#16786 DutchCruijff

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:38

Guys, isn't that Jacques quote very old? I think things changed very much since then. I think his opinion about MS comeback was positive. I think, I remember seeing them somewhere together(some occasions) and they respect each other. So, there isn't point for looking back.
MS is F1 driver ,he will give his best. If the best is enough, we will see. As I said, enough for me is podiums, some win will be perfect.

It is very old but it just goes to show how much hate Jacques for him, it was pure hatred which is rather perplexing. I still think he dislikes him, probably only supporting his comeback because he had the view of something similar, and it's rather funny to re-live these comments because Schumi's proved the haters wrong once again.

#16787 Sakae

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:47

Sometimes all it takes is one person to drag the thread downhill. All I saw were people discussing Berger's comments when someone barged in with the 'trashing' nonsense, others joining in for a cheap bash and soon enough we were in Jerez '97,Monaco '06 territory. Which have absolutely nothing to do with Berger's comments or Schumacher's performance in 2011..

As for your assessment of Schumacher the driver, to be honest for every critic that cannot see beyond his\her dislike of the man there are probably a hundred neutrals and observers that would put their bias aside and rank him as one of the greatest of all time, right at the very top, so it utterly doesn't matter IMHO.

Not much to be said about the stats thing, I don't see what's wrong with (gently ;)) reminding the detractors of Michael's tremendous success or that he was and still is immensely talented. Considering the rest see it fit for some reason to keep bringing '97 up, for example.

I think the thing that gets to many on the other side of the fence is the length of his tenure at the top. If Jim Clark or Ayrton Senna had somehow managed to win seven titles and 91 grands prix I bet they would have been the ones getting bashed, instead of MS. There's even been people that have admitted the antagonism would not have been as extreme had Schumacher 'only' won four or five titles. :lol:

Nevertheless, such petty stuff has never mattered in the long run, and will survive only as long as the minority among the generation that followed his career do. You'd only rarely see Fangio getting 'bashed' or his stats being held against his reputation as a legend for only ever wining in the best cars, jumping ship mid-season or using his teammate's cars to win (even though this was a common practice at the time, I believe).

I am with F1 scene for a while, yet I am yet to understand internet psychology. Take a case of Clark v. Schumacher. People claim rationality behind their opinions, claim no racism or nationalistic inclinations are involved, yet two WDC for Clark under circumstances that could be discussed in a separate thread are considered suprior to everything what Michael has achieved. I cannot help it then but to think that emotions, tribality, and a lot of PR sometimes takes over a reason, and internet is really not a medium to change anyone's mind.

#16788 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:51

I am with F1 scene for a while, yet I am yet to understand internet psychology. Take a case of Clark v. Schumacher. People claim rationality behind their opinions, claim no racism or nationalistic inclinations are involved, yet two WDC for Clark under circumstances that could be discussed in a separate thread are considered suprior to everything what Michael has achieved. I cannot help it then but to think that emotions, tribality, and a lot of PR sometimes takes over a reason, and internet is really not a medium to change anyone's mind.


Whoever said that about Clark? I'd like to see your soruces for that.

#16789 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:58

As for your assessment of Schumacher the driver, to be honest for every critic that cannot see beyond his\her dislike of the man there are probably a hundred neutrals and observers that would put their bias aside and rank him as one of the greatest of all time, right at the very top, so it utterly doesn't matter IMHO.


But, the thing is I neither like nor dislike Schumacher and I feel the same way towards the rest of the field. I respect them for what they do, I consider each to be sportsmen, but my days of hero worship died many long years ago when I saw far too many of my own heroes killed. I don't rate Schumacher in my top 5 because of his past actions and the fact that he never had a teammate capable of or allowed to challenge him. Nothing wrong with that, he built a dominating Ferrari team around him, and hat's off for that, but no, at the very top of my personal best list? No.

#16790 Sakae

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:59

Whoever said that about Clark? I'd like to see your soruces for that.

Before you fly off the handle, I was thinking about various polls which do pop-up occassionally, and in which Clark is rated higher than Schumacher; discussion that follows usually tries to rationalise polling data, but its hard to understand that. I would be surprised to hear that you have never seen that in here.

#16791 FenderJaguar

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 13:01

It depends on what you put into the expression "best F1 driver ever". And what you appreciate the most.

Edit: yes, there are a lot of polls and then there are polls with people from F1 or drivers and Michael is rarely on top. I wouldn't put him on top either but of course he is one of the bigger names in F1 history.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 03 February 2012 - 13:04.


#16792 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 13:06

Before you fly off the handle, I was thinking about various polls which do pop-up occassionally, and in which Clark is rated higher than Schumacher; discussion that follows usually tries to rationalise polling data, but its hard to understand that. I would be surprised to hear that you have never seen that in here.


Just asking you a simple question, not flying off the handle. It's pretty much what you do. When someone has a contradicotru post you always seem to want references and back up. So, I was only asking for your proof.......

#16793 BRK

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 13:25

Well there was a recent poll on the forum where Schumacher was voted greatest of all time bar none, followed by Senna, Clark, Fangio and Prost:

http://forums.autosp...greatest driver

Not an irrational poll as the cream ultimately did rise to the top. Considering this is a British dominated forum and there's no shortage of Schumacher-critics here, and that this is also one of the most popular F1 forums on the internet, I think that's a pretty good sign. By no means fully representative of the entire fanbase but definitely more so than one man\woman making a random list on a blog somewhere.

The point being that the opinion of the detractors is in a minuscule minority. That's probably also the case with the others in the top five on that list as well as Stewart.

#16794 Sakae

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 13:49

Well there was a recent poll on the forum where Schumacher was voted greatest of all time bar none, followed by Senna, Clark, Fangio and Prost:

http://forums.autosp...greatest driver

Not an irrational poll as the cream ultimately did rise to the top. Considering this is a British dominated forum and there's no shortage of Schumacher-critics here, and that this is also one of the most popular F1 forums on the internet, I think that's a pretty good sign. By no means fully representative of the entire fanbase but definitely more so than one man\woman making a random list on a blog somewhere.

The point being that the opinion of the detractors is in a minuscule minority. That's probably also the case with the others in the top five on that list as well as Stewart.

I am not bothered by someone having opposing point of view, however on occassions it bothers me, that I do not understand their position. Reasons for that might be numerous, and perhaps outside of this thread intent. Still, being of an inqusitive mind...

#16795 DutchCruijff

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 14:04

Just asking you a simple question, not flying off the handle. It's pretty much what you do. When someone has a contradicotru post you always seem to want references and back up. So, I was only asking for your proof.......

I'm still waiting on your "proof"...

#16796 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:11

I'm still waiting on your "proof"...


Brazil: 1:13.694 1:13.571 no time - qualified 10th race 15th
Japan: 1:33.748 1:32.116 no time - qualified 8th race 7th
Singapore: 1:48.819 1:46.043 no time - qualified 8th race retired collision

So, of the 3 times that he did not set a time in Q3, and in doing so, as you claimed to save a set of tyres for the race, he finished 1 spot above is grid slot, 5 places below, and once was involved in a collision. In other words 2 out of the 3 times, the saving tyres strategy failed to pay off.

#16797 Richardc

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:16

Crashing didn't really give him the option to make it work, however he was on a bit of a charge at the time - it was going to pay off.

#16798 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:20

Except for the part where he was 1 sec faster than his teammate in Singapore and finished 6th in Japan and Senna bumped him in Brazil when he was going good.

Yeah, it didn't work.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 February 2012 - 16:23.


#16799 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:21

Crashing didn't really give him the option to make it work, however he was on a bit of a charge at the time - it was going to pay off.


But it didn't pay off.

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#16800 jj2728

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 16:24

Except for the part where he was 1 sec faster than his teammate in Singapore and finished 6th in Japan.


Yep, 6th in Japan, my mistake. Still doesnt change the fact that it was 1 out of the 3 times.