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#17001 Mastah

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:15

You mean people sitting in the Mercedes board are idiots?


Maybe. After all Toyota board was giving millions of dollars year after year to have so much success with top drivers like Salo, McNish, Panis, da Matta, Zonta, Trolley, Ralfie and O'clock.



Schooled 2 years in a row?


Yes, schooling. I don't have any other word to describe how non-winner has beaten 7-times world champion 2 years in a row.



Going for headlines with old car?? Only you can fell for that. :rotfl:


1:17.613 posted by Nico (which is FULL 1 SECOND QUICKER than Schumacher could do yesterday) proves my assumption is right. Laugh as long as you want, reality is there to accept for those, who aren't blind.


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#17002 Jejking

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:28

Maybe. After all Toyota board was giving millions of dollars year after year to have so much success with top drivers like Salo, McNish, Panis, da Matta, Zonta, Trolley, Ralfie and O'clock.





Yes, schooling. I don't have any other word to describe how non-winner has beaten 7-times world champion 2 years in a row.





1:17.613 posted by Nico (which is FULL 1 SECOND QUICKER than Schumacher could do yesterday) proves my assumption is right. Laugh as long as you want, reality is there to accept for those, who aren't blind.

Toyota's engineering staff was so great and indeed and truly comparable to gents like Ross Brawn. You're so right! Nah. Not really. The drivers weren't top of the bill but that car didn't help much either often. Simple as that, argument dismissed :wave:

Schumachers fastest time was on hard tyres anyway yesterday, weather conditions weren't the same as well. Bye Mr Broken Record!

Edited by Jejking, 09 February 2012 - 12:29.


#17003 MightyMoose

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:29

Yes, schooling. I don't have any other word to describe how non-winner has beaten 7-times world champion 2 years in a row.

1:17.613 posted by Nico (which is FULL 1 SECOND QUICKER than Schumacher could do yesterday) proves my assumption is right. Laugh as long as you want, reality is there to accept for those, who aren't blind.


Schooling? You have no other words? Then I guess your mastery of a 2nd language isn't quite complete. Go away, check the facts & figures, then return with a sensible opinion on what actually occurred last year. Schooling? Possibly applies to what Alonso did to Massa, maybe even Vettel to Webber, but not 2 of the closest matched team-mates consistently in the season.

And the 1 second difference is nothing to do with different track conditions? Or more rubber laid down, or a different set-up, or LESS FUEL???? I suggest to the gallery that you have zero clue about those facts, and therefore also suggest that yet again you make a negative point just for the sake of making a negative point.

By the way, I get that you hate Germans, that's unfortunate, but you're veering very close to xenophobia.

#17004 merschu

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:32

Schumi has a bit of cold & cough. In this video from yesterday you can hear him sneeze.



And here is a video of Schumi being interviewed in the MercAMG F1 Gym, just fast forward it a bit.


Edited by merschu, 09 February 2012 - 12:50.


#17005 ivand911

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:34

If Webber think that with last year car and new tyres he can do 1:16 , I am not surprised that MGP car can do 1:17.613. For sure Nico have less fuel for one fast lap,where MS did 3 fast lap on his stints. And of course they continue on their program to improve set up for new tyres. Just hope that this work will be useful in new car.

Edited by ivand911, 09 February 2012 - 12:40.


#17006 Jejking

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:49

Schumi has a bit of cold & cough. In this video from yesterday you can hear him sneeze.



And here is a video of Schumi being interviewed in the Mercedes Factory Gym, just fast forward it a bit.

Interesting stuff! He almost looks human in that video :rotfl: :p

No seriously, I like the way he explains things and he is actually quite modest, maybe more than in his first competing era. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, all of this is a bonus for him. Hats off to this man :)

Sneezing happens to all of us, might have been an irritation of the sun which makes stuff tingling.

#17007 sharo

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:55

Michael has always been the same guy as a character but it was interpreted in a distorted way during his domination..

#17008 Jejking

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 13:00

Michael has always been the same guy as a character but it was interpreted in a distorted way during his domination..

Possible. But I think he lets his walls down more frequently these days, the last two years, don't you think? It's a good thing by the way.

#17009 jj2728

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 13:50

Rosberg 1:17.613
Schumacher 1:18.622

Over a second difference. Mercedes must be up to their sabotage tricks on Michael once again......

#17010 ivand911

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 13:55

Rosberg 1:17.613
Schumacher 1:18.622
Over a second difference. Mercedes must be up to their sabotage tricks on Michael once again......

To late, Mastah was already here! Next time. Little hint for you: Can you spot the difference in their fastest stint?

Edited by ivand911, 09 February 2012 - 13:59.


#17011 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 13:58

To late, Mastah was already here! Next time.


:rotfl: that's two for today, keep em coming!


#17012 Pizdek

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:08

To late, Mastah was already here! Next time. Little hint for you: Can you spot the difference in their fastest stint?


MS had 4-5 lap stint, Nico had real qualy sim... But 1 second difference in time is too much for 2-3 laps of fuel in MS car.

Conclusion is that 0.3-0.4 sec in favor of Nico stands and in the third year of comparation.

Edited by Pizdek, 09 February 2012 - 14:09.


#17013 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:10

There is a Nico vs. Michael thread.

Why don't you guy post that crap over there?

#17014 Paa

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:12

Also Schumi had hard compund in his fastest lap, while Nico was on softs iirc.
This alone could explain the 1s diff.

#17015 Pizdek

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:14

Enlight me pls, couse that thread is closed or I cant find it.

And this is the first post I wrote in MS thread so you cant say that to me(crap post and bashing MS). I ll be very happy to go in other thread.

#17016 ivand911

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:19

MS had 4-5 lap stint, Nico had real qualy sim... But 1 second difference in time is too much for 2-3 laps of fuel in MS car.
Conclusion is that 0.3-0.4 sec in favor of Nico stands and in the third year of comparation.

This is only from lap difference(3:1), what about tyre difference? Hard against soft. How much? MS did two 3 lap stints. He was testing something, not going for fastest lap like Nico. And many unknown things in testing(or testing car). I think time difference is natural improvement from testing program, track condition(yesterday was windy,more rubber).
Lets wait for Australia Q3?

#17017 Diablobb81

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:20

http://forums.autosp...w...&hl=rosberg
There you can discuss testing differences and their relevance.

#17018 Pizdek

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:24

This is only from lap difference(3:1), what about tyre difference? Hard against soft. How much? MS did two 3 lap stints. He was testing something, not going for fastest lap like Nico. And many unknown things in testing(or testing car). I think time difference is natural improvement from testing program, track condition(yesterday was windy,more rubber).
Lets wait for Australia Q3?


Okey, didnt think about the tires if thats true. Yup, we ll see in Australia... :up:

@Diablo81 :wave:

#17019 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 14:56

There is a thread for testing in which people will discuss, amongst other things, testing procedures and regulations, who is driving what and how fast they are going as well as why they went that fast. There IS a driver v driver thread for Schumacher & Rosberg if you think that testing times have some meaning in comparing the two.

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#17020 spacekid

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 15:10

Michael has always been the same guy as a character but it was interpreted in a distorted way during his domination..


His media image has softened, but yeah Michael has always been Michael. I remember a Murray Walker clip from years ago where he said what a really nice guy Michael is.



Martin Brundle has also said he's a really nice bloke to sit down and have a chat with, and Michael loves to talk. I think the British media definately tried to paint a certain picture of him as arrogant that wasn't fair.

Regards testing, it is only testing, and testing in illegal car at that, but consistent lap times on these tyres bodes very well for some good races. I would say I'm looking forward to the next test, but of course its Q3 of the first GP where it really all comes together. Not that long to wait now...

#17021 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 17:09

For the most part, Murray Walker and Martin Brundle ARE the British F1 media for all but hard core followers of the sport so if they say he's a nice bloke to chat with, nobody will doubt that. After that, you'll find a mix of views from journalists about him and very few will have unpleasant things to say about Michael the man so I genuinely have no idea where that 'certain picture' comes from. I do know where the fans get it, and it's because they see him turn Brundle away on grid walks, and an otherwise private man who shunned the spotlight as much as his fame would let him. Brundle understands this situation is contractually driven and has said so on many occasions, but of course many will see that as arrogance.

Second point is that none of the numbers you've seen from Michael bode anything. They just tell us that on a track at any given time he can be consistent with those tyres in last years car. I'd even say that Q3 isn't quite such a big deal either because DRS will allow a car in fast race trim get past someone who qualifies well BUT does add risk, as we saw last year.

#17022 ivand911

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 17:16

For the most part, Murray Walker and Martin Brundle ARE the British F1 media for all but hard core followers of the sport so if they say he's a nice bloke to chat with, nobody will doubt that. After that, you'll find a mix of views from journalists about him and very few will have unpleasant things to say about Michael the man so I genuinely have no idea where that 'certain picture' comes from. I do know where the fans get it, and it's because they see him turn Brundle away on grid walks, and an otherwise private man who shunned the spotlight as much as his fame would let him. Brundle understands this situation is contractually driven and has said so on many occasions, but of course many will see that as arrogance.

Second point is that none of the numbers you've seen from Michael bode anything. They just tell us that on a track at any given time he can be consistent with those tyres in last years car. I'd even say that Q3 isn't quite such a big deal either because DRS will allow a car in fast race trim get past someone who qualifies well BUT does add risk, as we saw last year.

Thank you. Some people(me) are pointing this whole last year.


#17023 Kubiccia

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:10

I have seen many posters saying that, with EBD going , Schumacher would benefit because of his old driving style and etc.

IIRC, only Red Bull had EBD in 2010 and the difference between Nico and Schumi was much greater in 2010 than in 2011, which would indicate that it was not related to EBD whatsoever.

#17024 LiJu914

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:20

I have seen many posters saying that, with EBD going , Schumacher would benefit because of his old driving style and etc.

IIRC, only Red Bull had EBD in 2010 and the difference between Nico and Schumi was much greater in 2010 than in 2011, which would indicate that it was not related to EBD whatsoever.


People are just hoping...and when your favourite driver is behind then change is usually a good thing.

I admire MSC for what he achieved in his career, but for me this career ended in 2006.

E.g. Imagine Lauda still racing in the early 90s and people yet expecting the same things he achieved in the 70s.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 February 2012 - 20:20.


#17025 ivand911

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 20:45

I have seen many posters saying that, with EBD going , Schumacher would benefit because of his old driving style and etc.

IIRC, only Red Bull had EBD in 2010 and the difference between Nico and Schumi was much greater in 2010 than in 2011, which would indicate that it was not related to EBD whatsoever.

I guess we will see in 2012. For 2010, understeery car, first year, weak front tyres. And it was not so EBD related as it was off throttle blowing(OTB) related. So MS couldn't play any more with gas pedal in corners(balancing the car). This was against engine program. Theory is that now without OTB he can use his own old driving style. And we will see this year if theory is right.


#17026 cheapracer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 07:11

I have seen many posters saying that, with EBD going , Schumacher would benefit because of his old driving style and etc.


Never me, it is the dropping of EBD that I expect to be one of the areas for MS to gain this year allowing more genuine driving skills and setups to the fore - not to say other driver's don't have those skills too of course but I expect some big surprises throughout the field from this singular major change, some will go forward and some will go backwards due to bravado over skill (relative) and tyre management over a race distance.


#17027 ivand911

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:21

Mercedes boss wants Schumacher beyond 2012
http://www.yallaf1.c...er-beyond-2012/
Deja view moment.

#17028 Jejking

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:17

Last year of the contract, in 2011 Brawn & Co already stated they wanted him badly for 'apres 2012'. I can imagine that, IF he keeps his speed up and IF Mercedes builds a regular podium challenger. On commitment alone I think Schumacher is still mixing it up with the best. On fightability ditto. Qualifying must improve and then he'll take it from there.

Well, I won't take any chance and will visit either the Germany or the Belgium GP on Sunday!

And agreed with cheapracer, it's getting awkward in here with people only trying to stir up the pot. There's a line to be drawn and I'll hope that happens very soon.

Edited by Jejking, 10 February 2012 - 09:18.


#17029 Richardc

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:49

I'm also seeing a GP this year, had to be this year for the same reason - it wouldn't be the same without him going round. However i know what will happen, and so i will predict a first corner shunt at Silverstone.

#17030 cheapracer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:24

I'm also seeing a GP this year, had to be this year for the same reason - it wouldn't be the same without him going round.


Benz (and Bernie) would have him if he was the slowest guy out there, the publicity he has bought to Benz over the last 2 years is amazing.

However i know what will happen, and so i will predict a first corner shunt at Silverstone.


Just as long as he doesn't pass the Pole sitter on the warm up lap ..... :lol:


#17031 cheapracer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 11:58

More good news for MS as I see it, Senna has just run off 25 laps in day 4 of testing without much time variance as have some other drivers the last few days which points towards the tyres lasting better this year(?), one of MS's advantages as a driver was his ability to pound out fast laps one after the other for long stints something I believe he suffered for with the 2011 tyres.

#17032 Jejking

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:10

More good news for MS as I see it, Senna has just run off 25 laps in day 4 of testing without much time variance as have some other drivers the last few days which points towards the tyres lasting better this year(?), one of MS's advantages as a driver was his ability to pound out fast laps one after the other for long stints something I believe he suffered for with the 2011 tyres.

Yes and no.

My opinion: his strength was always to be consistent(ly fast) and going really fast at the end of a stint. Inlaps and outlaps have always been blazing. That was in the age of maximum attack, no worries about the tyres. But his maximum speed actually decreased a bit over the years. Racing at reduced speed to live with those tyres, would mean that he would have had a less hard time to keep up. As we've seen in many races this year his pace according to race buildup is equal to or slightly above Rosberg. Bahrein 2010 ended in 3s lead for Rosberg over a race in identical conditions, Korea 2011 meant a couple of seconds of win for Schumacher.

I think Schumacher just got smarter on the tyres and learned to live with tyre management. With a bias more towards speed than endurance but his decreased speed, his loss would be as great as his gains. Inlaps and outlaps are still very good. Thus in the end of the day: netto 0. What do you think about my theory?

#17033 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:30

More good news for MS as I see it, Senna has just run off 25 laps in day 4 of testing without much time variance as have some other drivers the last few days which points towards the tyres lasting better this year(?), one of MS's advantages as a driver was his ability to pound out fast laps one after the other for long stints something I believe he suffered for with the 2011 tyres.


The new Pirellis seem to point that way, yes. They seem to last longer, and drop off is not as dramatic as last year, bar, I would assume the SS tyres, which I read will be carried on to 2012.(I don't understand this though, hasn't the construction itself been modified this year too? maybe they meant only the compound?) Saying that, IMHO, pounding out the consistent 'qualy laps' is not necessarily a question of the tyres, it requires a clear track in front to do it, implementing a meaningful strategy, and he seldom had that since his comeback. If the car has reasonable potential, we just may see more of it, I hope.


#17034 spacekid

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:35

For the most part, Murray Walker and Martin Brundle ARE the British F1 media for all but hard core followers of the sport so if they say he's a nice bloke to chat with, nobody will doubt that. After that, you'll find a mix of views from journalists about him and very few will have unpleasant things to say about Michael the man so I genuinely have no idea where that 'certain picture' comes from. I do know where the fans get it, and it's because they see him turn Brundle away on grid walks, and an otherwise private man who shunned the spotlight as much as his fame would let him. Brundle understands this situation is contractually driven and has said so on many occasions, but of course many will see that as arrogance.

Second point is that none of the numbers you've seen from Michael bode anything. They just tell us that on a track at any given time he can be consistent with those tyres in last years car. I'd even say that Q3 isn't quite such a big deal either because DRS will allow a car in fast race trim get past someone who qualifies well BUT does add risk, as we saw last year.


I actually see the media thing as working the other way round in the UK - most of the people I know that I talk to about F1 aren't really fans of the sport, but they have an awareness of it and will sometimes watch some if it is on - much the same as my approach to football. They certainly wouldn't take the time to watch Murray Walker talking about his favourite drivers/

It seems to me that much of what they know comes from the written press - generally tabloids. I'm sure you're aware of the way papers like The Sun, The Mirror, The Mail etc have represented Michael over the years - I have no problem with them being critical of him when he has behaved badly, but then that has spilt over into a generally negative view of him as a person and that stuck. This was especially the case in the '90s. I generally attribute that to the fact he is German, and beat the Brit. The UK tabloid press know their market and wrote about him accordingly. And before anyone mentions it, I know at times he did himself no favours, but at times the personal criticism I saw levelled at him by the sports writers of those papers was pretty cheap.

An example of something I saw in The Mirror a few years back - this isn't verbatim, but you get the gist...

SCHU IDIOT!!!!

Ralf Schumacher has BLASTED his brother Michael for trying to KILL HIM after the older Schumacher overtook him on the last lap of the Monaco Grand Prix...

Readers comments - Cheating German ****, Scummy Schumi, Cheating B*stard at it again... etc...

Yeah he's been a bit cheaty once or twice in his career, but he's actually quite a nice chap. The tabloid press where most people form their view of sports don't separate the two.

Regards testing - you are right. I was looking for some optimism from Peter Windsors quotes amongst my general view that next year will be much the same as the past 2 years but yes, you are quite right, it signifies nothing at all.

#17035 Scotracer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:38

Michael is driving like Michael again.

Let's hope for the best this year.

#17036 chrisaix

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 15:42

Michael is driving like Michael again.

Let's hope for the best this year.


Nothing could be more fantastic than that, im also set to watch singapore gp this year. My first time watching schumi and f1 live in person. I just hope W03 is competetive.

#17037 ivand911

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 19:07

http://smibs.tv/live
Live now, info from Jerez.

#17038 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 19:12

http://smibs.tv/live
Live now, info from Jerez.


thank you, I nearly missed that.

#17039 ivand911

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 20:16

Good words from Peter Windsor. He expect a lot from MS this year.

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#17040 glorius&victorius

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 20:47

Michael is driving like Michael again.

Let's hope for the best this year.


ever since his comeback folks have been searching for "the real Schumacher".

to use the analogy of de Montezemolo: its not Michael in the car, it's Ralf!

Edited by glorius&victorius, 10 February 2012 - 20:47.


#17041 ivand911

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 21:08

ever since his comeback folks have been searching for "the real Schumacher".

to use the analogy of de Montezemolo: its not Michael in the car, it's Ralf!

Then Montezemolo have to check his eyesight.

#17042 Kubiccia

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 00:32

I guess we will see in 2012. For 2010, understeery car, first year, weak front tyres. And it was not so EBD related as it was off throttle blowing(OTB) related. So MS couldn't play any more with gas pedal in corners(balancing the car). This was against engine program. Theory is that now without OTB he can use his own old driving style. And we will see this year if theory is right.

IIRC, OTB was not available at Mercedes in 2010.
1996's Ferrari was a horribly understeery car and Schumi coped great with it

The new Pirellis seem to point that way, yes. They seem to last longer, and drop off is not as dramatic as last year, bar, I would assume the SS tyres, which I read will be carried on to 2012.(I don't understand this though, hasn't the construction itself been modified this year too? maybe they meant only the compound?) Saying that, IMHO, pounding out the consistent 'qualy laps' is not necessarily a question of the tyres, it requires a clear track in front to do it, implementing a meaningful strategy, and he seldom had that since his comeback. If the car has reasonable potential, we just may see more of it, I hope.

Here's the full explanation for it:
http://www.f1zone.ne...f1-tyres/11693/

#17043 George Costanza

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:13

IIRC, OTB was not available at Mercedes in 2010.
1996's Ferrari was a horribly understeery car and Schumi coped great with it


Here's the full explanation for it:
http://www.f1zone.ne...f1-tyres/11693/



That was vintage Schu. The 1996 Schumacher would do fine today.

#17044 ivand911

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 07:47

IIRC, OTB was not available at Mercedes in 2010.
1996's Ferrari was a horribly understeery car and Schumi coped great with it
Here's the full explanation for it:
http://www.f1zone.ne...f1-tyres/11693/

This was second best car that year? W01 was 4-5 best car. This is the difference.
I hope W03 will be good car, and MS to be in the mix. I don't want other guys to fight for top5 places and MGP guys to watch outside. Lotus and FI appear to have good cars. I hope 2012 is our year. MS in top5 in WDC will be great.

Edited by ivand911, 11 February 2012 - 08:28.


#17045 Kubiccia

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:29

This was second best car that year? W01 was 4-5 best car. This is the difference.

maybe 3rd/4th in the begining of 96. The main thing is that Schumi was much faster than his team mate with that understeery car, so the problem is not that but a 27 years old Schumi versus a 41 yeard old one in 2010.

Giving that the compound of the tires will remain the same(in case of supersoft, at least), I don't know how can these new tires be that much better. Schumi said it's more consistent and that I can understand because the construction of the tire is better now by Pirelli but that will only make a change in long race stints and not in single banzai qualifying laps.


#17046 ivand911

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 08:40

maybe 3rd/4th in the begining of 96. The main thing is that Schumi was much faster than his team mate with that understeery car, so the problem is not that but a 27 years old Schumi versus a 41 yeard old one in 2010.

Giving that the compound of the tires will remain the same(in case of supersoft, at least), I don't know how can these new tires be that much better. Schumi said it's more consistent and that I can understand because the construction of the tire is better now by Pirelli but that will only make a change in long race stints and not in single banzai qualifying laps.

They changed I think rear tyre construction. Bigger contact surface. So this will be bigger in the race and in the Q. If it helps,it will help all the time. Tyres are softer generally. Maybe only SS will stay the same. This year hard is like last year medium I think ,and compound differences is not so big. Time wise.


#17047 merschu

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:18

Saw this tweet, Michael is Skydiving in Dubai today.

A good day to be @ SkyDive Dubai. Michael Schumacher jumping out of a plane today http://twitpic.com/8iclj2

https://twitter.com/#!/farahdaoud/statu...236747774361600


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#17048 ivand911

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:28

Saw this tweet, Michael is Skydiving in Dubai today.

I think he has home there? I guess it is better than Geneva right now.


#17049 merschu

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 09:56

I think he has home there? I guess it is better than Geneva right now.


Don't know about home but in 2006 Dubai's Prince Sheikh gifted him an island and yeah according to Google weather it's -6°C in Switzerland & 29°C in Dubai! :)

#17050 ivand911

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:10

Don't know about home but in 2006 Dubai's Prince Sheikh gifted him an island and yeah according to Google weather it's -6°C in Switzerland & 29°C in Dubai! :)

I think it was only rumour in the end. It is about this islands:
http://www.dailymail...ling-apart.html
http://www.privateis...sland-in-duabi/
But, he can afford hotel I guess. Or he has something in the city because he stay there a lot I think. Skydiving.