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#17051 LiJu914

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 16:41

And there was also other drivers close to Fangio age. Driver over 36 were normal then. For sure 1957 cars were not so demanding, not such G forces.


On the other hand, the cars had worse handling, had no power-steering, manual gear-boxes, the races were longer, etc. So it wasn´t necessarily any less demanding.

But all this doesn´t tell anything about the professionalism in the respective era.
E.g. Professinal cyclists of the 50s or 60s weren´t necessarily better skilled or trained, just because the stage distances were much longer and more demanding than today. And i can´t imagine a current or future cyclist winning a single TDF-stage by 8mins over the next guy as Merckx once did...

Edited by LiJu914, 11 February 2012 - 16:44.


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#17052 jj2728

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 16:46

For sure 1957 cars were not so demanding, not such G forces.


But, they were demanding in a different way. No there were not the G forces that the drivers of today experience, but the physical strain was just as tough and demanding and add to that the fact that the smallest mistake could result in tragic consequences, then you have a combination of factors that made them demanding, but as I said in a different way.

#17053 jj2728

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 16:56

And there was also other drivers close to Fangio age.


Yes there were drivers closer to Fangio's age in 1957, but none of them were close to competing for wins or close enough to challenge him and the other front runners. Only Harry Schell at age 36 finished in the top 10 in the driver's championship standings at the end of the season. San Hanks I don't include because none of the other top drivers competed in the Indy 500 which was considered for WDC points.

#17054 Schumacher7

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 18:02

All this staff are bullshit. His the same guy. And no his age doesn't make him much slower ether. It doesn't matter how old you are in F1. All that matters is if you are able to keep your condition while racing so your performance won't drop because of exhaustion. It doesn't seem like his half-dead when he gets out of the car to me. He seems quite fine actually.
It's simply that people had this crazy ideas(especially his fans) that Schumacher could win championships even with a Minardi simply because he has 7 titles.
He ain't a miracle man and Rosberg could very well fight him even if he was 10 years younger, lets not forget the guy never really drove against a good teammate or a team mate that even got the same attention.
His biggest power wasn't his amazing speed(am not saying the guy is slow, his a good driver but no he never was particularly faster than other good drivers) but the ability to make a whole team focus around him. Combine that with the luck of having the best cars and rules that fitted him perfectly and he was doing wonderfully.

You are wrong.
You are right.
You are wrong.
You are wrong.
There is no such thing as luck. Everything comes about as a result of somebody's actions.

#17055 Boxerevo

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 18:46

You are all talking this Fangio/Schumacher situation like this was a sport.

This is F1,and best car wins.

Schumacher on the best car would again win many,and fight for the wdc and do "great" things with his age.

#17056 jj2728

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 20:02

You are all talking this Fangio/Schumacher situation like this was a sport.
This is F1,and best car wins.


Uhm.....what?

#17057 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 20:05

Uhm.....what?


:lol: yep


#17058 cheapracer

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 20:20

It doesn't matter how old you are in F1.


How old are you to make this comment?

I'm certainly old enough to call your proposal rubbish.


Fangio won his 5th WDC at the age of 46.


You know very little about period cars and driving in general.

Your Mum's Toyota Corolla can lap the Nurb faster than Fangio's car, the skill back then was finesse and feel for grip at a much lower limit, more like a modern ice racer than any relevance to a current F1 car. 650kgs on 4" wide 16" tyres does not send a lot of force back through a steering wheel, especially a large diameter steering wheel.

For a reality check, Sabine Schmitz took a diesel Ford Transit Van around the Nurb only 30 seconds slower than Fangio went round.

The Martin Brundle series driving the Maserati 250F through to a more modern F1 (at the time) gives an insight to how they were to drive - listen to his commentry, the effort in his voice as he goes through the cars (note too the Maserati has modern historic tyres offering much more grip than the day).

#17059 jj2728

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 21:22

You know very little about period cars and driving in general.


I thought you had me on your ignore list......maybe you shoulda kept it that way.
I'll respond to an insult with the opinons, (get that? opinions) that I've voiced so far and it all started out by me saying that Fangio at age 46 won his 5th WDC and that I feel that Schumacher given the tools could do the same thing. Then people assumed I was making a comparison. I was not. I wonder why it is that his drive at the 1957 German GP ranks as one of the greatest of all time.
I could'nt give a rat's ass less about Sabine Schmitz and the transit van, yes I've seen the video but it has little relevance to the discussion at hand.
Tell you what, find yourself a Maserati 250F, take it at racing speeds around any track with little or no room for error for say 3 hours or so then tell me how you feel at the end of it.
You're an expert driver and I know very little about driving and period cars so it should be no problem for you, right?

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#17060 Fondmetal

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 21:30

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Seems to be a very good lap, give him the right car he will be back on top. He hasnt lost any of his speed or reflexes, he may have lost a few % but nothing that would make him look weak compared to the current crop of drivers in equal machinery.

#17061 Nigol

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 21:58

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Seems to be a very good lap, give him the right car he will be back on top. He hasnt lost any of his speed or reflexes, he may have lost a few % but nothing that would make him look weak compared to the current crop of drivers in equal machinery.


I dont want to agree or to disagree on your conclusion, but you can't tell from the video. What exactly do you see in there? It was a quite ok lap, yeah. But I can't see anything special, acutally he misses quite a few apexes. Far from perfect.
Most drivers laps look like this, so what?

#17062 spacekid

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 00:13

Right. So because Fangio won a world championship in the 1950's at the age of 46, it means that if Michael at 43 is not as good in 2012 spec F1 as he was 20 years ago he has always been rubbish.

Pathetic argument.

#17063 George Costanza

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 01:02

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Seems to be a very good lap, give him the right car he will be back on top. He hasnt lost any of his speed or reflexes, he may have lost a few % but nothing that would make him look weak compared to the current crop of drivers in equal machinery.





He doesn't drive like THIS anymore...

http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu



#17064 jj2728

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 01:07

Right. So because Fangio won a world championship in the 1950's at the age of 46, it means that if Michael at 43 is not as good in 2012 spec F1 as he was 20 years ago he has always been rubbish.
Pathetic argument.


Firstly, who said that? If you'd been following what I've been saying, or trying to say without it being interpreted every which way, you'd see that the point I have been trying to make is that if Schumacher has the tools, ie., the car, capable of taking him to the front, then I have no doubt that he still has the talents to win races. And those that think he can't are deluding themselves.

#17065 jj2728

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 01:11

He doesn't drive like THIS anymore...

http://www.youtube.c...;feature=relmfu


How do you know? What's to say that he's no longer capable of a lap like this? If anything, and as I've repeatedly said, given the tools, he's more than capable IMHO of doing so.

#17066 hammibal

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:14

What jj is saying is right, given the best car, like Fangio, why is there no chance of Schumacher winning an 8th WDC?

He's better than Rosberg and the car advantage would negate the performance deficit to Alonso, Vettel & Button.

Well actually beating Rosberg would be a good way to start

#17067 Kubiccia

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:09

All this staff are bullshit. His the same guy. And no his age doesn't make him much slower ether. It doesn't matter how old you are in F1. All that matters is if you are able to keep your condition while racing so your performance won't drop because of exhaustion. It doesn't seem like his half-dead when he gets out of the car to me. He seems quite fine actually.
It's simply that people had this crazy ideas(especially his fans) that Schumacher could win championships even with a Minardi simply because he has 7 titles.
He ain't a miracle man and Rosberg could very well fight him even if he was 10 years younger, lets not forget the guy never really drove against a good teammate or a team mate that even got the same attention.
His biggest power wasn't his amazing speed(am not saying the guy is slow, his a good driver but no he never was particularly faster than other good drivers) but the ability to make a whole team focus around him. Combine that with the luck of having the best cars and rules that fitted him perfectly and he was doing wonderfully.

thanks for sharing your wisdom with us. You seem an extreme expert on all those things.

Curiously, I already posted in this thread(or the RosXSchu one) how researches with aircraft pilots demonstrated how everybody loses reaction/reflexes with age. And this was related to "eye reaction" not to mention body reaction which is very important in fast car such as F1s. Maybe you don't know but drivers reacts to understeer/oversteer not by seeing it but by feeling it first with their bodies attached to the car. As you get older, your feeling for motion/forces gets slower and slower.

If you think Schumacher never showed to be much faster than almost all drivers he ever driven against, then you never watched F1 in his old days.

The "luck" he had for having dominant cars only occured to him in 2001,2002,2003(not that dominant),2004 and parts of 2006. In 2000 it was even a bit slower than Mclaren, I would say.

rules that fitted him? omg, cry-babying at it's peak. Yeah Schumacher had specific rules to make him seem better. :drunk:

Of course it does. In every sport it does.
And it´s not just fitness in F1 that´s linked with the "problem" of age. Racing requires a wide area of cognitive demands.
In simple terms: Many of these are way more related to your brain than to your body, and some of these brain functions just slightly degrade with age.
In another 25 years MSC might not be able to park his road car safely and that would´ve nothing to do with fitness. ;)

bingo :up:

Fangio won his 5th WDC at the age of 46.

Yeah, when cars had bicycle tires_with same grip as tires made of rock_, no aerodynamical development whatsoever and instead of having downforce, the cars in 50's had lift, which means they had even less grip at high speeds.

As a consequence, braking zones were huge, speed in corners were ridiculously slow and reflexes needed to cope with this slow machines are much much less than todays.

Today's Nascar cars reacts very slowly and that's why older drivers can be succesfull there. Driving there is more like antecipating things than reacting to the car. That's why Montoya, a much more talented guy than say 90% of Nascar drivers, couldn't set the world on fire there.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Seems to be a very good lap, give him the right car he will be back on top. He hasnt lost any of his speed or reflexes, he may have lost a few % but nothing that would make him look weak compared to the current crop of drivers in equal machinery.

I dont want to agree or to disagree on your conclusion, but you can't tell from the video. What exactly do you see in there? It was a quite ok lap, yeah. But I can't see anything special, acutally he misses quite a few apexes. Far from perfect.
Most drivers laps look like this, so what?

I agree with Nigol. The lap is ok and that's it. It's worthy mentioning that he was confortably the faster on this qualifying than anybody outside the TOP 3 teams. This lap does not represent some of the very poor qualifying performances Schumacher showed sometimes in 2010/2011.

Schumacher was faster than Button and Hamilton(Top drivers of today driving a Mclaren with more downforce than Mercedes) through Degner 1 corner but that's it, he can show some glimpses of old form in one corner but will not do that in the entire lap.
In this thread you can see that he was faster than the Mclarens in the corner I mentioned:
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=155676



#17068 DutchCruijff

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:27



Video + top comment = :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

0:47, when the hate for Schumacher began.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 12 February 2012 - 11:30.


#17069 Kubiccia

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:28

FANTASTIC videos :rotfl:

#17070 jj2728

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:49

Yeah, when cars had bicycle tires_with same grip as tires made of rock_, no aerodynamical development whatsoever and instead of having downforce, the cars in 50's had lift, which means they had even less grip at high speeds.
As a consequence, braking zones were huge, speed in corners were ridiculously slow and reflexes needed to cope with this slow machines are much much less than todays.


You should check out the 1954 Mercedes Benz Streamliner if you think there was no aero development and if the cars had less grip at high speed, then you'd agree that they were inherently more dangerous back then, correct? And don't delude yourself into thinking that just because the cornering speeds were slower back then that the cars themselves were slow or that the reflexes of the drivers back then were any less slow than those of todays' drivers, that's rubbish.

#17071 holiday

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:51

Fangio won his 5th WDC at the age of 46.


And no driver has since even come close to this feat. Which leaves either five subsequent decades of f1 pilots utter sh*t or your hypothesis, boy.

#17072 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 12:59

Mansell was a race winner at 41.

#17073 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:02

Mansell was a race winner at 41.

Mansell was gifted a race win at the age of 41.

#17074 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:06

Mansell was a race winner at 41.


...and looked poor that season against Hill for the most part -and also against Hakkinen the year after. A good example of a driver which wasn´t as good as he was before.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 13:09.


#17075 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:07

And no driver has since even come close to this feat. Which leaves either five subsequent decades of f1 pilots utter sh*t or your hypothesis, boy.

So you feel that if Schumacher was given the best car of the field, an advantage of 2-3/10ths, he wouldn't have a good chance of winning the WDC?

#17076 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:17

...and looked poor that season against Hill for the most part -and also against Hakkinen the year after. A good example of a driver which wasn´t as good as he was before.

You're describing Schumacher's 2010.

#17077 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:22

You're describing Schumacher's 2010.


If i do, would that be anyhow contradictory?

#17078 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:29

We won't know until you try.

#17079 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:36

Mansell was a race winner at 41.

and what was the age average at that moment in time?
(not asking you for data, of course, just a thought)
recently we've had youngest race winner, youngest wdc, double wdc...the trend is clear

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#17080 holiday

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:46

Mansell was a race winner at 41.


A race win is a far cry from a championship and in this particular case Nigel achieved it amid a lot of uncompetitive drives in 94 and 95. A perhaps better example would be his 1992 championship at the age of 39. Or Brabham's last WDC at the age of 40 in 1966. But still far away from Fangio's 46.



#17081 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:50

and what was the age average at that moment in time?
(not asking you for data, of course, just a thought)
recently we've had youngest race winner, youngest wdc, double wdc...the trend is clear

The trend is that very, young special drivers are snapped up by big teams immediately ie. Vettel, Hamilton as opposed to very, young special drivers, such as Senna, Prost, Hakkinen, spending more so time developing in lower formulas or in lesser teams.

#17082 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:51

We won't know until you try.


I already did (see previous page).

But in short: MS imho isn´t as good as he was before and i assume that was, is and will be the case for every other driver in his 40s compared to his younger self.

Does he still deserve a seat in F1? Yes i think so.
Can he become champion again? Of course as F1 is a car-dependant discipline in terms of success (but i doubt that MGP will provide a good enough car for him).

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 13:52.


#17083 hammibal

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 13:59

So you feel that if Schumacher was given the best car of the field, an advantage of 2-3/10ths, he wouldn't have a good chance of winning the WDC?

Webber had such an advantage but only came 3rd in the WDC plus Schumacher has still to beat Rosberg which he so far hasnt done, so it wouldnt be nailed on as such, also under those circumstances a big portion of the grid would also have a chance, Massa 2008 comes to mind.

#17084 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:00

A race win is a far cry from a championship and in this particular case Nigel achieved it amid a lot of uncompetitive drives in 94 and 95. A perhaps better example would be his 1992 championship at the age of 39. Or Brabham's last WDC at the age of 40 in 1966. But still far away from Fangio's 46.


And in terms of age/performance-correlation one should still point out that this season doesn´t provide much insight, as basically only a Williams-driver could become WDC that year - and Patrese was only a year younger than Nigel.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 14:00.


#17085 FenderJaguar

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:02

Mansell got his well deserved championship when he was 39. At 40 he went to the CART-series and won there when it was a good series. Remarkable. He didn't drive that much in 1994 - he replaced Coulthard in France and then did the last 3 races.

#17086 FenderJaguar

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:03

And in terms of age/performance-correlation one should still point out that this season doesn´t provide much insight, as basically only a Williams-driver could become WDC that year - and Patrese was only a year younger than Nigel.


Winning the CART-series as a "rookie" in 1993 tells me he still had a lot of speed.

#17087 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:04

Webber had such an advantage but only came 3rd in the WDC plus Schumacher has still to beat Rosberg which he so far hasnt done, so it wouldnt be nailed on as such, also under those circumstances a big portion of the grid would also have a chance, Massa 2008 comes to mind.

Mark Webber is not Michael Schumacher. Schumacher has beaten Rosberg? Can he beat him over a season? With a car that is away from all the midfield mess and behaves correctly, it is more likely than not he will. Massa '08 was a supreme driver and not just any driver.

#17088 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:13

Winning the CART-series as a "rookie" in 1993 tells me he still had a lot of speed.


Nobody denies that Mansell still had "a lot of speed". I also don´t deny that MSC still has a lot of speed (as i think that Rosberg is a fast driver).
But imho neither of two had/have the same speed as they had several years before.

Ps. And i dont want to belittle the quality of the CART-series, but it´s not F1 (actually an even older former F1-WDC was runner-up that year  ;) - That argument might also be used the other way around, but the fact that 47-year old Fittipaldi became 2nd, tells me more about the quality of the field than about Fittipaldi.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 14:14.


#17089 hammibal

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 14:59

Mansell got his well deserved championship when he was 39. At 40 he went to the CART-series and won there when it was a good series. Remarkable. He didn't drive that much in 1994 - he replaced Coulthard in France and then did the last 3 races.

Mansell was in the best team though and his teammate Mario Andretti was 54 years old

#17090 Jejking

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:03

You're describing Schumacher's 2010.

You are forgetting one thing: Schumacher last season was most of the time on his way back up after a mostly disappointing 2010, while Mansell in 1995 really struggled to hang on.

#17091 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:03

I already did (see previous page).

But in short: MS imho isn´t as good as he was before and i assume that was, is and will be the case for every other driver in his 40s compared to his younger self.

Does he still deserve a seat in F1? Yes i think so.
Can he become champion again? Of course as F1 is a car-dependant discipline in terms of success (but i doubt that MGP will provide a good enough car for him).

I don't disagree with you, but it is IMHO important to recognise that circumstances can and do arise where either your age becomes irrelevant or the equipment makes it so. If the argument is that Fangio could only win at that age because he drove well within the physical and mental limits of a 46 year old because that's what F1 was like then, I think that it's reasonable to say there are races and circumstances which allow a drivers experience to shine through where sheer youth and enthusiasm fails. These circumstances won't win him a championship, but a decent car might, as long as he can beat Rosberg.

A thread on age and driving might be a good discussion.

#17092 FenderJaguar

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:14

Emmo did win the Indy 500 that year so he might be a good example that some drivers still can drive into their 40s. You might also want to mention Mario and so on, but the series also had a young Paul Tracy and really good racers. As strange as it may sound today there were a lot of talk about F1 vs Cart/Indycar around 1993 and F1 wasn't that far ahead.

Anyway - I don't think Michael has lost a lot of speed. Maybe a tenth or something. I think it is more about different team, different rules, different racing. And maybe Rosberg is really fast, who knows?

Edited by FenderJaguar, 13 February 2012 - 15:14.


#17093 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 15:43

Emmo did win the Indy 500 that year so he might be a good example that some drivers still can drive into their 40s. You might also want to mention Mario and so on, but the series also had a young Paul Tracy and really good racers. As strange as it may sound today there were a lot of talk about F1 vs Cart/Indycar around 1993 and F1 wasn't that far ahead.


As i said, you can use this argument one way or the other...

F1 vs. CART at that time?

F1 champ Mansell comes to CART and wins.
Michael Andretti finished 2nd, 1st, 2nd in CART before he joined F1. I think i don´t need to remind anyone how "good" he was in F1.

But i think we start getting lost in details, because the main pattern is pretty clear: For more than 40 years now there are no 40(+) year-old WDCs, not even GP-Winners (except for Mansell in Adelaide).
And of course that´s basically not only a pattern in F1 but also in every other sport (in which there is mostly no "distorting" element of technical inequality = better comparability of individual performance), even in sports which are less physical demanding.
I guess one could find a few exceptions in each discipline, but the general rule would stay the same.


Anyway - I don't think Michael has lost a lot of speed. Maybe a tenth or something. I think it is more about different team, different rules, different racing. And maybe Rosberg is really fast, who knows?


Well, then we obviously disagree in this point. However i won´t make up any numbers as it would be pretty nonserious imho.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 15:54.


#17094 hammibal

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:14

Mark Webber is not Michael Schumacher. Schumacher has beaten Rosberg? Can he beat him over a season? With a car that is away from all the midfield mess and behaves correctly, it is more likely than not he will. Massa '08 was a supreme driver and not just any driver.

By dismissing Webber you could also say who's Rosberg, Rosberg is 4/5 tenths quicker than Schumacher in qualifying so even with 2 to 3 tenths car advantage you'd see Rosberg on pole and Schumacher 4th/5th on the grid so not a gimme for Schumacher by any means

#17095 fieraku

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:37

By dismissing Webber you could also say who's Rosberg, Rosberg is 4/5 tenths quicker than Schumacher in qualifying so even with 2 to 3 tenths car advantage you'd see Rosberg on pole and Schumacher 4th/5th on the grid so not a gimme for Schumacher by any means

I was more impressed by Schu last season then by Nico and I think NR is a top driver.The problem last year was that Merc was stagnated in 4th and there's little points difference between 7th and 8th.Merc was a lock for 4th and 7th/8th for the drivers, so the impressions come from individual races and Schu in Canada was 80% of the old or for better word the young Schu.
Not to take anything from MS but it also seems to me at least that NR has lost that flare/hunger/fight or whatever you want to call it due to having bad cars.

2012 will be very interesting for sure.

#17096 hammibal

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:47

I was more impressed by Schu last season then by Nico and I think NR is a top driver.The problem last year was that Merc was stagnated in 4th and there's little points difference between 7th and 8th.Merc was a lock for 4th and 7th/8th for the drivers, so the impressions come from individual races and Schu in Canada was 80% of the old or for better word the young Schu.
Not to take anything from MS but it also seems to me at least that NR has lost that flare/hunger/fight or whatever you want to call it due to having bad cars.

2012 will be very interesting for sure.

I dont understand this Canada thing, it was an unusual race SC etc, it was a great drive by Schumacher? But he only finished 6 seconds in front of the driving god that is Petrov. :confused:

#17097 ivand911

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:51

I dont understand this Canada thing, it was an unusual race SC etc, it was a great drive by Schumacher? But he only finished 6 seconds in front of the driving god that is Petrov. :confused:

As you say SC - Petrov, 6 seconds.


#17098 LiJu914

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:52

I dont understand this Canada thing, it was an unusual race SC etc, it was a great drive by Schumacher? But he only finished 6 seconds in front of the driving god that is Petrov. :confused:


Yeah 6 seconds in the last 10 laps (last SC-period ended after lap 60) while battling with Webber/Button.

Edited by LiJu914, 13 February 2012 - 17:05.


#17099 fieraku

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:53

I dont understand this Canada thing, it was an unusual race SC etc, it was a great drive by Schumacher? But he only finished 6 seconds in front of the driving god that is Petrov. :confused:


And only 4 tenths behind Webber.

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#17100 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 16:59

I dont understand this Canada thing, it was an unusual race SC etc, it was a great drive by Schumacher? But he only finished 6 seconds in front of the driving god that is Petrov. :confused:

If this is an attempt to belittle that performance you're very wide of the mark. Even finishing a race that chaotic is a good job and it's one of those examples where experience can make a difference, and Schumacher was only a small step away from the podium.