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#17601 thrillercd

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:50

Did running off cause Michael's gear box problem or gear box problem cause him running off ?

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#17602 Rikhart

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

He aborted the turn because of gearbox problems, he didnt really go off.

#17603 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:53

"Michael was just at the rtl mic. The gearbox suddendly gave up into turn 1 after loosing the gearoil. He said he was running a comfortbale pace, and could hold Seb behind him quite comfortable. He also said that he is looking forward and that Australia is not the right track to judge the car."

#17604 Tarzaan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:58

Did running off cause Michael's gear box problem or gear box problem cause him running off ?


The end is the same.

#17605 thrillercd

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:03

Thanks gusy Michael is very unlucky these days.

#17606 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:26

He aborted the turn because of gearbox problems, he didnt really go off.

It would be just grand to really find out which truth is the correct truth, because honestly, you can't possibly claim Shumi's gearbox failed before his off or after.

#17607 ivand911

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:29

It would be just grand to really find out which truth is the correct truth, because honestly, you can't possibly claim Shumi's gearbox failed before his off or after.

Yes, I can because he say how it happen. Going into the corner he down change gears, and the third is not there,so he lose engine brake then and normally goes off. Anything else that you don't understand?

Edited by ivand911, 18 March 2012 - 08:34.


#17608 baddog

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:33

It would be just grand to really find out which truth is the correct truth, because honestly, you can't possibly claim Shumi's gearbox failed before his off or after.

Well, for those of us who watched the race it was very easy to see him enter the corner normally then, without any apparent drama abort and go straight on off the track, making it obvious that a failure happened in there. Even David Coulthard was able to analyse this correctly so it must have been obvious.

#17609 Kubiccia

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:34

He still could finish ahead of Nico. P4 or P5 maybe.

Schumi would not finish behind Alonso

Mclaren and RBR were faster than him but not the others

#17610 BRK

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:39

4th or 5th would have been my prediction as well, he could have held Webber IMO. The DNF was just a waste of some solid points to kick off the season with, but that's useless as my expectations were a bit higher than that.

#17611 skinnyman

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:49

Even David Coulthard was able to analyse this correctly so it must have been obvious.

:lol:

#17612 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 08:57

Yes, I can because he say how it happen.

Lying is of course off the table, then. How do you know, emphasis on KNOW, that Shumi's off was a result of the gearbox failing or the other way around?

Well, for those of us who watched the race it was very easy to see him enter the corner normally then, without any apparent drama abort and go straight on off the track, making it obvious that a failure happened in there.

And it's equally obvious for us who not only watched the race, but also practice and qualification, that Shumi had several similar off's during the entire weekend which could very well explain why he went off during the race, again. Similarly, it's not entierly inconceivable that this one off actually damaged his car beyond continuation, which, yet again, may explain why Shumi were unable to continue after he went off during practise.

Rocket science and brain surgery aside, it's not that hard, is it?

#17613 baddog

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:01

Lying is of course off the table, then. How do you know, emphasis on KNOW, that Shumi's off was a result of the gearbox failing or the other way around?


And it's equally obvious for us who not only watched the race, but also practice and qualification, that Shumi had several similar off's during the entire weekend which could very well explain why he went off during the race, again..

The offs you mention were not at all similiar. Locking up the rear on entry and going wide is not a lot like suddenly straightening the steering in mid corner for no apparent reason and driving slowly off the track. You are REALLY reaching this time.

#17614 marchi-91

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:03

Lying is of course off the table, then. How do you know, emphasis on KNOW, that Shumi's off was a result of the gearbox failing or the other way around?


And it's equally obvious for us who not only watched the race, but also practice and qualification, that Shumi had several similar off's during the entire weekend which could very well explain why he went off during the race, again. Similarly, it's not entierly inconceivable that this one off actually damaged his car beyond continuation, which, yet again, may explain why Shumi were unable to continue after he went off during practise.

Rocket science and brain surgery aside, it's not that hard, is it?

You seem to be making it that hard. Generally when the the vast majority 'including Michael himself' state that the car lost drive mid corner, you're pretty much wrong.

#17615 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:18

The offs you mention were not at all similiar. Locking up the rear on entry and going wide is not a lot like suddenly straightening the steering in mid corner for no apparent reason and driving slowly off the track.

Except of course that Shumi's off's during practise, and the race for that matter weren't even close to your dramatic explanation. Actually, there were no drama at all, not for Shumi and not for any dozen other drivers doing the exact same thing, at the exact same place.


You are REALLY reaching this time.

If what I'm doing is, not only reaching, but REALLY reaching, what is this?

...and driving slowly off the track.


Do you honestly believe that Shumi drove "slowly off the track", for "no apparent reason"?

#17616 Ruf

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:23

Definitelly a 4th, perhaps even 3rd if he could take advantage of the SC. Too bad about the gearbox but, oh well, shit happens. But the car is good and the pace is solid. The season barely started, lots of races to go. :cool:

#17617 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:24

You seem to be making it that hard.

People lie. I should really end it right there, but I guess I'm a sucker today. Actually, never mind.

#17618 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:28

Definitelly a 4th, perhaps even 3rd if he could take advantage of the SC.

A win was is on the table if he could take advantage of, well, all kind of things in the future :clap:

#17619 carbonfibre

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:28

There will always be the doubters ofcourse.

Really disappointed about the Mercedes giving up on Michael so early in the race, he was doing a very good job and showing he is a lot more one with the car this year then ever since he made his comeback. Let's see what Michael is able to do in malaysia.

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#17620 baddog

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:49

Do you honestly believe that Shumi drove "slowly off the track", for "no apparent reason"?

okay slowly was probably a bit over the top, but if you can't recognise a difference between someone outbraking themselves and someone losing drive and aborting in mid corner when you see it (even though everyone else could recognise it) then you are going to, and do, look a bit daft.

#17621 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:04

okay slowly was probably a bit over the top, but if you can't recognise a difference between someone outbraking themselves and someone losing drive and aborting in mid corner when you see it (even though everyone else could recognise it) then you are going to, and do, look a bit daft.

You know damn well that missing a brake point doesn't always equal "outbraking themselves" in a traditional sense, and it sure as hell doesn't always equal a puff of smoke, clearly visible on television.

There were no visual indication that Shumi's car lost third gear going into the first corner, which would explain him going wide, none whatsoever. There are however plenty reason to believe he went wide on his own accord, not to mention plenty reason to lie about the reason he went off. Shumi isn't driving for some obscure independent garagista here, Mercedes is kind of... you know, huge.

#17622 Tarzaan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:07

I read the first sign of the problem begins (maybe a lap) earlier than he run-off from the track.

#17623 Tarzaan

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:07

Good pic:

http://a2.sphotos.ak...081873463_n.jpg

Look at the faces...

#17624 ivand911

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:11

Except of course that Shumi's off's during practise, and the race for that matter weren't even close to your dramatic explanation. Actually, there were no drama at all, not for Shumi and not for any dozen other drivers doing the exact same thing, at the exact same place.

They all have offs? Do you want to hear their names? You are the only one who is doubting. Anyone to share your view? If I have to believe what happen I chose MS, not you.
Many guys went off like MS, did their gearboxes break? Explain this!! Since when you break gearbox going wide??

Edited by ivand911, 18 March 2012 - 10:13.


#17625 baddog

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:12

You know damn well that missing a brake point doesn't always equal "outbraking themselves" in a traditional sense, and it sure as hell doesn't always equal a puff of smoke, clearly visible on television.

There were no visual indication that Shumi's car lost third gear going into the first corner, which would explain him going wide, none whatsoever. There are however plenty reason to believe he went wide on his own accord, not to mention plenty reason to lie about the reason he went off. Shumi isn't driving for some obscure independent garagista here, Mercedes is kind of... you know, huge.

Sure whatever. You are basically saying you wish it were so, and can find a reason to lie to yourself. Have fun with that, the rest of us are over here in the real world.

#17626 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:25

Sure whatever.

:up:

#17627 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:32

You are the only one who is doubting.

Don't be stupid now. Everyone is doubting, except the ones who know. Which category do you belong to?

#17628 ivand911

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:00

Don't be stupid now. Everyone is doubting, except the ones who know. Which category do you belong to?

You didn't answer me? Since when you break gearbox going off? Who else break his gearbox going wide?


#17629 zelpre

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:11

haha. Schumacher beaten him by 3 and half tenths and you come here with this wonderland assumption?! Nico just had a little lock up into T3 and that's it, but Schumacher lap was far from perfect either. Schumi was very cautious on S3 and not using all track. Maybe he just wanted a secured good lap rather than go for the risk of a more aggressive one.

It was just the first qualifying so let's see if this becomes a trend but to low the expectations over Schumi a bit, he didn't have a great driving on Turns 11-12.

Don't delude yourself thinking that Schumacher started ahead because Nico had problems. Considering both could have done better times, I don't see how Nico would have outqualified Schumi yesterday.

I noticed that too. Schumi had a big oversteer in final corner
Posted Image


:up:


The fact he beaten Nico doesn't mean he is the same again



Where did you get the onboard video?

#17630 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:14

You didn't answer me?

I didn't 'answer you' for the simple reason that I can't. No-one can.

Since when you break gearbox going off?

Since the dawn of time. Are you serious? Formula One-cars are not designed to run off-road, and when they do, they break down. All the time.


Who else break his gearbox going wide?

Everyone.

#17631 ivand911

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:28

I didn't 'answer you' for the simple reason that I can't. No-one can.
Since the dawn of time. Are you serious? Formula One-cars are not designed to run off-road, and when they do, they break down. All the time.
Everyone.

You have no idea, but still you accuse MS that he lie. :rotfl: How smart. Probably Ross and Norb will lie too to cover him?


#17632 zelpre

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:40

I didn't 'answer you' for the simple reason that I can't. No-one can.


Since the dawn of time. Are you serious? Formula One-cars are not designed to run off-road, and when they do, they break down. All the time.



Everyone.


So you are saying when there's a problem on the car, it is because they run off-road? So an issue happens after the car goes off the road...Genius you are.

#17633 Hacklerf

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:45

OK disappointing that DNF, but very encouraging for the rest of the season, finally a platform to build from rather than chasing the tails like the last two years, dont forget this time last year they were still trying to fix massive cooling issues, and the year before they had gone wrong with the wheelbase of the W01, now its about chasing performance, its a totally different world

Also, Malaysia, Michael is fast there, worth a bet for pole position for sure, the big straight will allow the W03 to stretch its legs.

Edited by Hacklerf, 18 March 2012 - 11:47.


#17634 Sakae

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:48

Life goes on. Next.

#17635 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:04

You have no idea, but still you accuse MS that he lie. :rotfl: How smart.

Quote me saying that Shumi lie. Please. Do.

#17636 VresiBerba

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:11

So you are saying when there's a problem on the car, it is because they run off-road?

No, I'm saying (I'm actually reiterating, but I guess you can spell that) that when someone goes off, the car can take damage.

Genius you are.

If you saysing.

#17637 Massa_f1

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:14

If i take one positive away from this weekend. It is the fact that if Schumacher were in a McLaren or Red Bull i know he has what it takes to challenge for race wins. It will never be the case with Mercedes though, and anyone who thinks so is just wishful thinking.

#17638 z2z

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:14

The only good thing from the weekend, he seems to be comfortable and in control with the package.

Edited by z2z, 18 March 2012 - 12:15.


#17639 Sakae

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:16

I read the first sign of the problem begins (maybe a lap) earlier than he run-off from the track.

In post race interview Michael said that he his problems with gearbox began on the first lap (lost drive going into T1).

http://www.formula1....12/3/13123.html

Edited by Sakae, 18 March 2012 - 12:18.


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#17640 i.am.cloned

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:18

The only good thing from the weekend, he seems to be comfortable and in control with the package.

Was really pleased to see how upbeat he was on pitlane after DNF. Hope it means this gearbox problem was one-off and he'll do better in coming races.

#17641 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:21

In post race interview Michael said that he his problems with gearbox began on the first lap (lost drive going into T1).

http://www.formula1....12/3/13123.html

I'm pretty sure he meant turn 1 on the lap he went off.

Edited by Schumacher7, 18 March 2012 - 12:24.


#17642 Sakae

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:23

I'm pretty sure he meant turn 1 on the lap he went of.

Could be, I am not sure.

#17643 BRK

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:23

This is what he said:

"MELBOURNE, SUNDAY – MICHAEL: “WE CAN NOW BUILD ON AND START IMPROVING FURTHER”
For Michael, losing drive going into turn one was an unfortunate end to his race: “I was trying different gears and occasionally the drive came back, but in the end, I had to go onto the grass to avoid the risk of the car being forced into a spin.

It was especially unfortunate as we have not had this problem during the winter tests and were very reliable.

This is why I am not concerned, as I know things like this happen in racing, and our reliability is not in question. I believe I could have had a good race this afternoon, and I can still take some positives out of the weekend as we have seen our car was confirming our feelings, and is definitely a clear step forward.

We can now build on that and start improving further.”

Not sure how many laps he had been doing that, juggling through the gears? Assuming that's a repost and has been clarified already, all I can see is a long series of 'you have chosen to ignore' message in bold so guess there's some hot trolling action going on.



#17644 Ruf

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:24

I'm pretty sure he meant turn 1 on the lap he went of.

Didn't he retire in turn 1?

#17645 zyphro

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:25

This is what he said:

"MELBOURNE, SUNDAY – MICHAEL: “WE CAN NOW BUILD ON AND START IMPROVING FURTHER”
For Michael, losing drive going into turn one was an unfortunate end to his race: “I was trying different gears and occasionally the drive came back, but in the end, I had to go onto the grass to avoid the risk of the car being forced into a spin.

It was especially unfortunate as we have not had this problem during the winter tests and were very reliable.

This is why I am not concerned, as I know things like this happen in racing, and our reliability is not in question. I believe I could have had a good race this afternoon, and I can still take some positives out of the weekend as we have seen our car was confirming our feelings, and is definitely a clear step forward.

We can now build on that and start improving further.”

Not sure how many laps he had been doing that, juggling through the gears? Assuming that's a repost and has been clarified already, all I can see is a long series of 'you have chosen to ignore' message in bold so guess there's some hot trolling action going on.



Yeah sounds like the initial problem occured in T1, and he carried on juggling till he was forced to retire.

#17646 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:26

Didn't he retire in turn 1?

Yeah, I assumed he meant he lost drive in turn 1 and that's why he retired there. I could be wrong of course, if it really was on the first lap then the car might be alright after all (Rosberg had an off day perhaps?)

#17647 Paa

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:27

This is what he said:
“I was trying different gears and occasionally the drive came back,


I think he means after he went off the track. He cruised slowly for a while before stopping and I assume this is when he tried different gears etc.


#17648 Ruf

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:30

Yeah, I assumed he meant he lost drive in turn 1 and that's why he retired there. I could be wrong of course, if it really was on the first lap then the car might be alright after all (Rosberg had an off day perhaps?)

I mean "but in the end, I had to go onto the grass to avoid the risk of the car being forced into a spin, which he did in lap 10, T1. He managed to nurse the car to the pit-lane afterall...

#17649 cheapracer

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 14:54

Since the dawn of time. Are you serious? Formula One-cars are not designed to run off-road, and when they do, they break down. All the time.



Wow, Vettle deserves drive of the year already then, 2nd place with an obviously broken gearbox after his off in T1

Hows the licence test going by the way, does your mum or dad go with you?

Anyway, shame today for MS, don't think the failure cost him a lot and hope Benz can get some feedback and cure the tyre wear issues.

Wasn't it fantastic to see them all sliding around and actually driving on the throttle again (powersliding the car) controlling the cars - and I mean all of them, this should be right up MS's alley which is hopeful for a better year.

#17650 zyphro

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 14:56

Wasn't it fantastic to see them all sliding around and actually driving on the throttle again (powersliding the car) controlling the cars - and I mean all of them, this should be right up MS's alley which is hopeful for a better year.

Amen to that :up: .