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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#17701 hansmann

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 16:04

I completely agree with your throttle steering comment and, generally, everything in your post. However, I fail to see how this contradicts what I am saying...


I didn't mean to contradict what you were saying, just add to it .;)

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#17702 Schumacher7

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:00

I completely agree with your throttle steering comment and, generally, everything in your post. However, I fail to see how this contradicts what I am saying...

I believe he meant the idea he was putting forward was another armchair expert opinion. I don't think that bit was directed at you.

#17703 abulafiaF1

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:21

I didn't mean to contradict what you were saying, just add to it .;)


Oh... OK! :wave:

@Sakae: ......very difficult to say. Michael has good knowledge of the track. It's a circuit that requires confidence in your machinery in order to do well. Characteristic examples:

Posted Image

Turn 01 needs a car that is very stable under braking and doesn't lock the brakes as the inside front tyre is gradually unloaded
Turns 05 and 06 constitute one of the most extreme examples of weight transfer in the entire F1 calendar. Confidence at the back end of the car is crucial there.
The exit of Turn 09 is tricky because it's very hard to put the power down, but the really difficult part is the very late apex into 11, that requires geometric precision...
Finally, Turn 12 really tests the downforce levels of a car, but you can actually lose or gain a lot of time braking and turning for 14. Turn 13 gradually becomes the tight 14, which means that you have to unload the car from the Gs of 13, brake and adopt a very wide line and a late apex to maximize the exit down the back straight.

I mention all the above examples because they require absolute confidence in the car, and handling predictability. It's therefore very difficult to predict how Michael will fare. If the car goes well, and the tyres are properly switched on, then he should be in the hunt for the front row of the grid. If however, the car is off, even by a small bit, then this will have a huge effect on laptimes. Many suggest that Sepang is defined by its high-G corners, but the majority of the laptime can be lost or found in the low to med speed corners (01, 02, 04, 09, 11, 14 and 15). F1 cars spend a lot of time there...

#17704 Sakae

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:37

I am thinking that Mercedes might have parity, if not upper hand with RBR on straights, and corners could be defended. I have Michael in top five (again).

#17705 ali.unal

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 17:41

http://static.sidepo...circuit_map.png

Turn 01 needs a car that is very stable under braking and doesn't lock the brakes as the inside front tyre is gradually unloaded
Turns 05 and 06 constitute one of the most extreme examples of weight transfer in the entire F1 calendar. Confidence at the back end of the car is crucial there.
The exit of Turn 09 is tricky because it's very hard to put the power down, but the really difficult part is the very late apex into 11, that requires geometric precision...
Finally, Turn 12 really tests the downforce levels of a car, but you can actually lose or gain a lot of time braking and turning for 14. Turn 13 gradually becomes the tight 14, which means that you have to unload the car from the Gs of 13, brake and adopt a very wide line and a late apex to maximize the exit down the back straight.

Good example of that and Michael's superb saving:



#17706 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 18:05

wow, how he handles the rear stepping out at 1m10 and under the next braking is awesome

#17707 Sakae

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 23:30

Oh... OK! :wave:

@Sakae: ......very difficult to say. Michael has good knowledge of the track. It's a circuit that requires confidence in your machinery in order to do well. Characteristic examples:

Posted Image

Turn 01 needs a car that is very stable under braking and doesn't lock the brakes as the inside front tyre is gradually unloaded
Turns 05 and 06 constitute one of the most extreme examples of weight transfer in the entire F1 calendar. Confidence at the back end of the car is crucial there.
The exit of Turn 09 is tricky because it's very hard to put the power down, but the really difficult part is the very late apex into 11, that requires geometric precision...
Finally, Turn 12 really tests the downforce levels of a car, but you can actually lose or gain a lot of time braking and turning for 14. Turn 13 gradually becomes the tight 14, which means that you have to unload the car from the Gs of 13, brake and adopt a very wide line and a late apex to maximize the exit down the back straight.

I mention all the above examples because they require absolute confidence in the car, and handling predictability. It's therefore very difficult to predict how Michael will fare. If the car goes well, and the tyres are properly switched on, then he should be in the hunt for the front row of the grid. If however, the car is off, even by a small bit, then this will have a huge effect on laptimes. Many suggest that Sepang is defined by its high-G corners, but the majority of the laptime can be lost or found in the low to med speed corners (01, 02, 04, 09, 11, 14 and 15). F1 cars spend a lot of time there...

How complex do you think race simulation software is? (Proprietary, written by a specialist within)?

#17708 Kubiccia

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 00:32

T12 has been flat out for many years now.

As for Schumi grid position, if he can limit the damage on S2, where Mercedes lacks downforce compared to Lotus, Mclaren, RBR, then Schumi will fight for pole if he repeats his Melbourne form, imo

#17709 cheapracer

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:11

If MS is smart, and we know he is, he'll do a Monza again - low downforce and stay in front on the 2 long straights.

#17710 libano

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:22

If MS is smart, and we know he is, he'll do a Monza again - low downforce and stay in front on the 2 long straights.


not smart at all. once it starts raining (very likely) you are screwed with such a setup. they don't have a straight line speed problem at all, i would use the excess speed to have more wing for faster laps.


#17711 abulafiaF1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:02

How complex do you think race simulation software is? (Proprietary, written by a specialist within)?


Hmmmm.... The basic algorithms for calculating a race simulation are very standard, such as calculating pit stops time based on historic data, and use degradation vs decreasing fuel to predict laptime evolution, and of course adding all that together, having a provision for safety cars, etc, etc... I think that anybody can write such a program within a few minutes, either in VB or even in an Excel sheet. The tricky part, however, is I believe to have a software that can be fed with: (a) expected track / air temperatures (b) degradation patterns from previous races and testing sessions © fuel effect from previous races and testing sessions (d) track characteristics (friction coefficient, latteral Gs, etc) and (e) car setup characteristics (downforce levels and balance, mechanical setup, etc), so it can then predict the following: (a) lap times and (b) degradation evolution. Such software would be unique for each team, and it has one name: simulator.

#17712 zyphro

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:59

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98245

Right from the horses mouth.

"We understood in Melbourne that we have to do a better job with race pace. But we understood it and fixed it. It is a one-off."

#17713 libano

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:43

Some unintentional humour from today's press conference:

Q: Are you in touch, from time to time, with Eddie Irvine?
MS: No, not really. I see his sister ever so often and I see him maybe once a year and that's about it.

:)

#17714 Sakae

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:49

Hmmmm.... The basic algorithms for calculating a race simulation are very standard, such as calculating pit stops time based on historic data, and use degradation vs decreasing fuel to predict laptime evolution, and of course adding all that together, having a provision for safety cars, etc, etc... I think that anybody can write such a program within a few minutes, either in VB or even in an Excel sheet. The tricky part, however, is I believe to have a software that can be fed with: (a) expected track / air temperatures (b) degradation patterns from previous races and testing sessions © fuel effect from previous races and testing sessions (d) track characteristics (friction coefficient, latteral Gs, etc) and (e) car setup characteristics (downforce levels and balance, mechanical setup, etc), so it can then predict the following: (a) lap times and (b) degradation evolution. Such software would be unique for each team, and it has one name: simulator.

Thanks. Does that mean really that telemetry in real time is transmitted to home-base, and race strategy is developed as race progresses, or data acquisition is too slow, and at some point pit-wall must make a call on the spot? I do suspect that once you enter all variables, optimising the strategy continuously is beyond human capabilitity.

Edited by Sakae, 22 March 2012 - 11:51.


#17715 abulafiaF1

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:24

Thanks. Does that mean really that telemetry in real time is transmitted to home-base, and race strategy is developed as race progresses, or data acquisition is too slow, and at some point pit-wall must make a call on the spot? I do suspect that once you enter all variables, optimising the strategy continuously is beyond human capabilitity.


Yes, the majority of the real-time data analysis during a race takes place back in the factory, as the race progresses, and then this digested info is fed back to the on-track team who make the strategic decisions. However, I don't think there's a substitute for human intuition and thinking outside the box, so you often get calls that seem to defy logic - sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. In the old days things were more intuitive, more on-the-fly, if you prefer. Now it seems there are very little variations between strategies - the focus is to stretch the tyre's life and try to undercut the guy in front whilst making sure you don't come out behind traffic.

#17716 DutchCruijff

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 12:24

Q: Are you in touch, from time to time, with Eddie Irvine?
MS: No, not really. I see his sister every so often and I see him maybe once a year and that’s about it.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#17717 ali.unal

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 14:13

http://www.dailymoti...io-feature_auto

At 13:00 - from Rosberg's engineer to Rosberg

"Be advised Michael's car failed because he had too much... he was downshifting with a lot of rear locking. We'll just keep you advised if we see that as a situation, OK? We're just carrying as you're doing normally but we'll keep you advised just to let you what the problem was and if start to see it, then we'll start to tell you"

Intriguing.

#17718 D.M.N.

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 17:42

Q: Are you in touch, from time to time, with Eddie Irvine?
MS: No, not really. I see his sister every so often and I see him maybe once a year and that’s about it.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that laughed at that. :lol: At least it said sister and not girlfriend though...

#17719 Octavian

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:31

not smart at all. once it starts raining (very likely) you are screwed with such a setup. they don't have a straight line speed problem at all, i would use the excess speed to have more wing for faster laps.


I'd say it was very smart. If they go with a higher downforce setting it will compromise qualifying performance. Better to qualify high and defend the position from the front than chase down the opposition in what will probably be a slower car.
As for the rain - I think driver skill overcomes small changes in downforce and we know the best drivers can drive superbly in the rain no matter the set up.

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#17720 LiJu914

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:39

I'd say it was very smart. If they go with a higher downforce setting it will compromise qualifying performance. Better to qualify high and defend the position from the front than chase down the opposition in what will probably be a slower car.
As for the rain - I think driver skill overcomes small changes in downforce and we know the best drivers can drive superbly in the rain no matter the set up.


I remember (prime) Schumacher looking pretty hopeless compared to Coulthard in the rain-soaked race in Brazil (2001), because his car-setup wasn´t matching the conditions at all...






#17721 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:45

drivers can't do magic. if the ride height is too low or the tyres suck they're not gods.
setup can affect a lot their performance

#17722 weston

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:49

/OFF

Sonia Irvine is the founder of a nightclub that follows Formula 1 races all around the World. I can imagine Schumacher to be a diamond member.

Edited by weston, 24 March 2012 - 15:02.


#17723 KiloWatt

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:32

Oops, wrong thread.

Edited by KiloWatt, 23 March 2012 - 02:35.


#17724 Tarzaan

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:45

P4 is FP1, P2 in FP2. 0.361 from Ham

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/98267

#17725 cheapracer

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 07:54

Based on Melbourne and today's practice sessions, MS is probably enjoying having more driver control over his car again and the ability to bring basic skills to the fore.



drivers can't do magic. if the ride height is too low or the tyres suck they're not gods.
setup can affect a lot their performance


Indeed, if you have a particularly hard setup and it rains you are in trouble - Jaques V suffered from that in a few races generally running harder setups than most drivers.



Sonia Irvine is the founder of a nightclub that follows Formula 1 races all around the World. I can image Schumacher to be a diamond member.


I heard she takes beer and cash as well.


#17726 Sof1

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:02

Yeaaah Michael, 3rd !! Cool!

#17727 Tarzaan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:03

Damm, almost first row!

But he still beat Nico.

Tomorrow maybe he turn first in the first corner...

#17728 thrillercd

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:04

Great job :clap:

#17729 Augurk

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:04

First time a post-session press conference for him since his return? :smoking:

#17730 Urawa

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:04

sick with one shot :clap:
qualifying issues over?

#17731 exmayol

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:04

Great result! I hope MS can finish in top 5!

#17732 nateshan

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:05

Waiting to see Schumi in the press conference.............. After a long time :)

#17733 F1fanaticbe

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:06

Frans :down: :down: :rotfl:

#17734 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:06

One run - nailed it! :clap: :clap: :clap:

#17735 Lights

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:07

First time in press conf since 2006. Great lap!

#17736 Lelouch

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:07

no matter what happens tomorrow.. WOOOHOOOOOOO! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

#17737 marchi-91

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:08

The old mans still got it. He may have lost the ability to drive around issues, he's not lost the ability to drive a car on the ragged edge.

#17738 tractionman

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:08

The old man must be starting to worry the others.....Its only a piece or two more for the puzzle.... and I may be forced to switch the t.v off much like a decade ago.


#17739 Math89

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:08

Mhihihihihihihihihihi <--- Happy fan giggle :clap: :clap: :clap:

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#17740 Jomyboy

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:11

I am glad Schumi qualified 3rd rather than 2nd. Offline is very dusty. Schumacher got real chance to get 2nd or may 1st come 1st corner tomorrow. We never know!!!

#17741 thrillercd

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:12

God damn new record was so close.

#17742 cheapracer

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:13

Where's Mastah?

Posted Image

Edited by cheapracer, 24 March 2012 - 09:14.


#17743 Augurk

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:13

God damn new record was so close.

There is always Monza later this year. Maybe Spa. :smoking:

#17744 micktosin

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:15

Michael Shumacher. :kiss: :love: Sooooo emotional.

Edited by micktosin, 24 March 2012 - 09:15.


#17745 cheapracer

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:15

I may be forced to switch the t.v off much like a decade ago.


.... and your computer hopefully.

#17746 marchi-91

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:16

Where's Mastah?

Posted Image


I see him. One with his head buried in the sand.

#17747 fieraku

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:16

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Reflexes my arse.Schu's da man.

#17748 zyphro

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:17

Schumacherrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I always said schumacher is still the same guy (lost a bit of speed but yea..) where are the haters?!

#17749 zyphro

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:17

Where's Mastah?

Posted Image

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

#17750 Wilgot

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 09:18

He didn't seem as happy as, say, Grosjean last week... :p Perhaps he wanted that pole. Or perhaps he knows he'll have a hard time defending that 3rd position tomorrow.