Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20770 replies to this topic

#18001 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:32

Exactly, Albert park is a weird track and Schumi's car failed and today's race was a bit hectic, I'm not saying it will be fine on other tracks but let's wait another three weeks and see.


Merc usually does well in China. Let's hope they do again. :up:

But writing them off based on these performances is just plain silly. Two weird races doesn't= a championship conclusion.

Advertisement

#18002 Octavian

Octavian
  • Member

  • 703 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:33

I can tell you all now that Mercedes will not win a race in dry conditions this year. Yes it's fast over a single lap but the race pace is awful. Today the car was slow, changeable conditions or not that car was slow in the race and it was slow in Australia. It's hard to fathom that after three seasons in F1 and after inheriting a championship winning team Merc still can't produce a race winning/challenging car. It is a waste of Michael's time and he does deserve better, a hell of a lot better.


#18003 KavB

KavB
  • Member

  • 1,235 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:37

The car does seem poor over a race distance. I suppose they stand a good chance at tracks where it is difficult to pass, like Monaco.

#18004 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 5,187 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:46

Omg guys this is hilarious.

Why are you analysing the pace of the car in these changing conditions. Would anyone like to remind me where Button was?

Get a ****ing grip ffs. Let's see what the pace is like in a proper dry race before coming to conclusions.



Button had a damage car. He has got a lot of vibration.

#18005 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,508 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:51

As a life long Schumacher fan, i am going to be honest here.

There is nothing left to race for in my opinion. The car will NEVER be good enough to challange the front runners.

He is wasting his time with Merecedes. He took a gamble cause they won with Brawn. (a complete fluke)

Its such a shame he did not come back with Red Bull or McLaren, but its done now.

Anyone who thinks Mercedes will even race for podiums this year are sadly just dreaming.

I was embarrassed for the team today.

:down:

Edited by Massa_f1, 25 March 2012 - 13:52.


#18006 Konsta

Konsta
  • Member

  • 1,819 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 25 March 2012 - 13:56

I can tell you all now that Mercedes will not win a race in dry conditions this year. Yes it's fast over a single lap but the race pace is awful. Today the car was slow, changeable conditions or not that car was slow in the race and it was slow in Australia. It's hard to fathom that after three seasons in F1 and after inheriting a championship winning team Merc still can't produce a race winning/challenging car. It is a waste of Michael's time and he does deserve better, a hell of a lot better.


Amazing difference between performance in Q and race. It looked as if the car was a handful to drive and ate it´s tyres ultra-fast. Bad combo.

#18007 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:15

I don't get why every is all doom and gloom :drunk:

MS and Merc have now figured out qualifying and have a good car with some real and solid pace.

There is a real chance that MS may get on the podium a couple/few times this season. And with luck and circumstance, maybe a win or 2.

Of course the Mercedes isn't perfect.. duh. But neither is the Redbull, Ferrari, Lotus. :wave: To think they have solidly leapfrogged RedBull/Newey and Ferrari this season is amazing.

Yes there appears work to be done regarding their race pace... but seriously it's only been 2 weeks and back to back overseas races at that!!! No team.. No team could address issues in that period of time unless they identified a broken part :rolleyes:

People need to get real about where he was in 2010, 2011 and now 2012. IT'S BEEN A MONUMENTAL IMPROVEMENT!!! :up:

Edited by Paco, 25 March 2012 - 14:23.


#18008 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:18

I don't get why every is all doom and gloom :drunk:

MS and Merc have now figured out qualifying and have a good with some real and solid pace.

There is a real chance that MS may get on the podium a couple/few times this season. And with luck and circumstance, maybe a win or 2.

Of course the Mercedes isn't perfect.. duh. But neither is the Redbull, Ferrari, Lotus. :wave: To think they have solidly leapfrogged RedBull/Newey and Ferrari this season is amazing.

Yes there appears work to be done regarding their race pace... but seriously it's only been 2 weeks and back to back overseas races at that!!! No team.. No team :rolleyes:

People need to get real about where he was in 2010, 2011 and now 2012. IT'S BEEN A MONUMENTAL IMPROVEMENT!!! :up:

:up:

PEOPLE GET A GRIP geez! If you're going to post to whine here, don't post at all. Its been 2 races out of what, 20? if its the same as this at the end of the season then I will agree with the majority here.

Else no.

#18009 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:19

As a life long Schumacher fan, i am going to be honest here.


You clearly aren't a life-long MS fan. What a ridiculous attitude.

MS never gives up. He won't be leaving this team till its winning- mark my words.

Edited by zyphro, 25 March 2012 - 14:20.


#18010 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:21

Amazing difference between performance in Q and race. It looked as if the car was a handful to drive and ate it´s tyres ultra-fast. Bad combo.


Well.. that was pretty much the case for EVERY single driver today in the race! :rotfl:

I don't get why people make a huge deal about qualifying in dry and racing in wet and amazed there is a difference in their performance. IT MEANS NOTHING!

Wet races are a lottery, a proven fact time and time again. Nice for news as it shakes up the results. Nice for mid pack teams as one or two usually nail it and put in a good result that they never would have otherwise. Today was Sauber.

So F1 usually wins a series when a few wet races happen as it mixes things, makes big headlines and shakes everything up.

Edited by Paco, 25 March 2012 - 14:24.


#18011 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 610 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:22

You clearly aren't a life-long MS fan. What a ridiculous attitude.

MS never gives up. He won't be leaving this team till its winning- mark my words.

the problem is not MS


#18012 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:22

the problem is not MS

Wtf are you talking about. When did I say it was?

:drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

#18013 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,972 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:23

I don't get why every is all doom and gloom :drunk:

MS and Merc have now figured out qualifying and have a good with some real and solid pace.

There is a real chance that MS may get on the podium a couple/few times this season. And with luck and circumstance, maybe a win or 2.

Of course the Mercedes isn't perfect.. duh. But neither is the Redbull, Ferrari, Lotus. :wave: To think they have solidly leapfrogged RedBull/Newey and Ferrari this season is amazing.

Yes there appears work to be done regarding their race pace... but seriously it's only been 2 weeks and back to back overseas races at that!!! No team.. No team :rolleyes:

People need to get real about where he was in 2010, 2011 and now 2012. IT'S BEEN A MONUMENTAL IMPROVEMENT!!! :up:



:up:

Well said.

I think qualifying high up on Saturday is always going to set expectations higher come race day, I had a feeling there would be disappointment in anything lesser.

It was a strange weekend though confirmed by Kimi's quote:
"It would be nice to just have a normal weekend and just see where we are. Right now, nobody really knows where anybody is. But we seem to have a pretty strong package everywhere"



We needed less rain, maybe 20 laps of it-including drying track, then for 36s laps to be done in the dry.




Whitout the frenchman he could finish about in P5.


Which is what he predicted for qualifying initially.





18 races left, which is still more then most of the f1 seasons ever.

16 races, then 17, then 18, 19 and 20.

Oversee races and all these cars showing competitive showings, this is more competitive from across he field then last 2 years, at the same time albert park is a unique track and sepang conditons didn't tell us more, so like Kimi said, we don't know everything. Ferrari won, but I don't think they were the fastest if it would been dry.





Edited by SeanValen, 25 March 2012 - 14:31.


#18014 sharo

sharo
  • Member

  • 1,792 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:27

You clearly aren't a life-long MS fan. What a ridiculous attitude.

MS never gives up. He won't be leaving this team till its winning- mark my words.

The problem is at this rate of development the bosses may pull the plug earlier than the team becomes winning.
ATM Williams show better general advance in respect to last year and they were way behind.

#18015 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:28

Results show no improvement, so there is clearly no improvement. I ask :who cares about Qualy???? You don't get points for Q. To get destroyed on Sunday. Car need race pace, not PR Saturdays. The team is a big joke. Chief strategist show since last two years that he is useless. The stupid DRS thing is not working. Who MS overtake with it? Better qualify 6-7th and have racier car ,than this. I didn't see the whole race live and I don't want to see it now. I was driving, my brother was following Autosport live on mobile, I waited for MS to start overtaking, I wait, I wait and I wait. And he didn't start. W02 at least can overtake. W03 is useless with that.

Edited by ivand911, 25 March 2012 - 14:34.


#18016 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 610 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:29

Wtf are you talking about. When did I say it was?

:drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

I just meant that it's not up to him. He can't stay forever or maybe he can, but he can't do anything about the car. I understand completely who want to be optimistic since it's too early ofc, but i can understand people who are all doom and gloom as you say because we have seen how the pattern develops in this team. For example Norbert Haug said today: "Our car has got speed and we will continue to work hard to generate this speed in the race as well as in qualifying."

That's pretty much what he said after China last year. Now don't get me wrong i know nothing about the car, but i can guarantee it has shown no indication of it having any pace in 2 sundays. Not even a fast lap to change the pattern. We don't know if they can turn the tables but last year they never did.

Now back to Schumi, we all know his attitude and his winning mentality but each one of us wants him to have fun and give us the pleasure of watching him drive a car worthy of his skill. The Saturday W03 is one, the Sunday one is not, at least up to now. Sorry, for the misunderstanding. :)

#18017 BiH

BiH
  • Member

  • 2,405 posts
  • Joined: September 05

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:32

once again their team orders are just strange

once schumacher spun from Romain and they saw perez going to wets

what was Brawn thinking?////

take the risk they had nothing to lose

instead they stayed out again and again

same with call to dry tyres for Nico and Schumacher

Edited by BiH, 25 March 2012 - 14:35.


#18018 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:32

I just meant that it's not up to him. He can't stay forever or maybe he can, but he can't do anything about the car. I understand completely who want to be optimistic since it's too early ofc, but i can understand people who are all doom and gloom as you say because we have seen how the pattern develops in this team. For example Norbert Haug said today: "Our car has got speed and we will continue to work hard to generate this speed in the race as well as in qualifying."

That's pretty much what he said after China last year. Now don't get me wrong i know nothing about the car, but i can guarantee it has shown no indication of it having any pace in 2 sundays. Not even a fast lap to change the pattern. We don't know if they can turn the tables but last year they never did.

Now back to Schumi, we all know his attitude and his winning mentality but each one of us wants him to have fun and give us the pleasure of watching him drive a car worthy of his skill. The Saturday W03 is one, the Sunday one is not, at least up to now. Sorry, for the misunderstanding. :)


Again you're all so quick to jump to conclusions.

Has MS even finished/done a bone dry race in the W03?

NO! FFS why don't you wait till that happens then make conclusions. THAT'S ALL IM SAYING. I'm not saying the car will have the pace of the top teams, what I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions/ write 'em off when they've hardly any real racing in the dry.

I agree with the strategist bit- he needs to go NOW.

Edited by zyphro, 25 March 2012 - 14:33.


#18019 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,508 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:32

You clearly aren't a life-long MS fan. What a ridiculous attitude.

MS never gives up. He won't be leaving this team till its winning- mark my words.


We will see in China then. Rosberg went backwards in normal conditions in Melbourne. The team have been outraced by Sauber and Williams 2 weeks running.

I know MS never gives up and i admire him even more for this and sticking around than anything he ever did in his Ferrari winning years.

Advertisement

#18020 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:34

We will see in China then. Rosberg went backwards in normal conditions in Melbourne. The team have been outraced by Sauber and Williams 2 weeks running.

I know MS never gives up and i admire him even more for this and sticking around than anything he ever did in his Ferrari winning years.


Indeed we will. It's only sensible to comment properly when MS has actually driven a race in the dry.

#18021 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:38

Again you're all so quick to jump to conclusions.

Has MS even finished/done a bone dry race in the W03?

NO! FFS why don't you wait till that happens then make conclusions. THAT'S ALL IM SAYING. I'm not saying the car will have the pace of the top teams, what I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions/ write 'em off when they've hardly any real racing in the dry.

How Sauber , Lotus , Williams were good in Australia and today too? Why weather doesn't matter for them?


#18022 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,812 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:39

Everyone saying wait for a dry race is missing the point. They don't understand what's wrong and that is the biggest problem you can have.

They have not understood their tyre issues for years.

Edited by Scotracer, 25 March 2012 - 14:40.


#18023 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:41

How Sauber , Lotus , Williams were good in Australia and today too? Why weather doesn't matter for them?


Counter argument: in Aus ham and but were quickest. How come they werent quickest in the wet?

Also where was ALO, williams were quicker than ferrari in dry. What happened today? Williams were slower no?

Edited by zyphro, 25 March 2012 - 14:43.


#18024 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:42

They don't understand what's wrong and that is the biggest problem you can have.


How do you know this? Has anyone officially came out and said this, or are you just extrapolating?

Seems like the latter to me. For all you know they may know what is causing the problem: having back-to-back races doesn't allow them to bring in a proper fix does it?

#18025 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 610 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:43

NO! FFS why don't you wait till that happens then make conclusions. THAT'S ALL IM SAYING. I'm not saying the car will have the pace of the top teams, what I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions/ write 'em off when they've hardly any real racing in the dry.

Yes, i agree with that and it's a new season and a new car. And i'm not writing the off i am just expressing my fears and the only thing i want is to be entirely wrong in my "assumptions". But you have to agree that what we have seen up to now in 2 racing days is utter s**t. And yes every car has issues it's just that the W03's issues scare the hell out of me and look a lot more serious from an outsider's point of view. Plus, i would prefer to not be behind Williams and Sauber and close to FI in terms of face pace. That would make me much more comfortable.

Edit: Also, i have to agree with Scotracer's point

Edited by Lelouch, 25 March 2012 - 14:45.


#18026 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,812 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:44

How do you know this? Has anyone officially came out and said this, or are you just extrapolating?

Seems like the latter to me. For all you know they may know what is causing the problem: having back-to-back races doesn't allow them to bring in a proper fix does it?


I'm inferring on past experiences and what Michael's comments after the race suggested. Its like the tyres are some black box that they can't open to look in and see how they work.

#18027 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:45

Yes, i agree with that and it's a new season and a new car. And i'm not writing the off i am just expressing my fears and the only thing i want is to be entirely wrong in my "assumptions". But you have to agree that what we have seen up to now in 2 racing days is utter s**t. And yes every car has issues it's just that the W03's issues scare the hell out of me and look a lot more serious from an outsider's point of view. Plus, i would prefer to not be behind Williams and Sauber and close to FI in terms of face pace. That would make me much more comfortable.


I agree on the face of the results it doesn't look good but theres lots of things you need to take into account. Also being on FI pace doesn't mean much; it mean's we have gone backwards but in reality we don't really know fully where we're at.

#18028 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,752 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:45

Yes, even in the PR releases, which are full of corporate BS, they said that they can't get tires in the working window.

#18029 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:47

I'm inferring on past experiences and what Michael's comments after the race suggested. Its like the tyres are some black box that they can't open to look in and see how they work.

"But this will not be done from one race to another, it will take some time, and we need to give it that time. Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."

Which backs up my argument; who realistically thought the supposed issue was going to be solved in a back-to-back race weekend? I admit there is a problem somewhere, but it was never going to be fixed that quickly.

That doesn't necessarily mean there's panic: as Michael said: " Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."

#18030 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:47

The problem is at this rate of development the bosses may pull the plug earlier than the team becomes winning.
ATM Williams show better general advance in respect to last year and they were way behind.


Pull the plug.. no way because of how the car is performing. Don't forget, Mercedes has been one of the longest running engine providers on the grid and have had many ups and downs with McLaren etc.
If they do pull the plug, it would be associated with the commerical rights and working agreement then on track performance. This isn't the case as BMW setting stupid 5year expectations and walking due to costs and lack of results.

As for Williams, of course that may "appear" to be the case as they had a BIGGER gap to fill. It's a team with a tonne of history, experience and some really good people working there. So it's only natural that eventually they would improve as it's not soo much as they improved as they didn't mess up as bad this year as years gone by. Due to the lack of formal EBD this season, all the teams have gotten closer together.

Edited by Paco, 25 March 2012 - 14:49.


#18031 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:50

Again you're all so quick to jump to conclusions.

Has MS even finished/done a bone dry race in the W03?

NO! FFS why don't you wait till that happens then make conclusions. THAT'S ALL IM SAYING. I'm not saying the car will have the pace of the top teams, what I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions/ write 'em off when they've hardly any real racing in the dry.

I agree with the strategist bit- he needs to go NOW.

I am not writing Michael Schumacher off, and its hard to predict where we go from here, but despite uncertainty ahead of us in this season, fact remains that first two races are not really very impressive, are they? Vettel may or may not recover from his misfortunes, and RBR may or may not be on the par with others, but position in today's race by both Merc drivers leaves me more than disappointed. Combine that with backstabbing in commercial division by the other teams and FOM, and one wonders what else can go wrong, if anything is actually left undamaged. I am seriously worrying they will discontinue their presence in 2013, and possibly not fully supporting developments in 2012. I would not blame them if they say NO ro FOM, but it is a shame we face a such possibility. It is not a good weekend by any measure.

#18032 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,820 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:50

jesus, so many drama queens around like it's girl kindergarten hour


#18033 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,812 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:51

"But this will not be done from one race to another, it will take some time, and we need to give it that time. Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."

Which backs up my argument; who realistically thought the supposed issue was going to be solved in a back-to-back race weekend? I admit there is a problem somewhere, but it was never going to be fixed that quickly.

That doesn't necessarily mean there's panic: as Michael said: " Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."


Their comments after Australia's analysis made it out like they had found the issue. Then bang, again, come race day the thing just wont go around the track quickly.

I'm not being melodramatic...I just don't see any reason to believe this team is capable of actually over-coming issues and move forward during a season.

#18034 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:51

Again you're all so quick to jump to conclusions.

Has MS even finished/done a bone dry race in the W03?

NO! FFS why don't you wait till that happens then make conclusions. THAT'S ALL IM SAYING. I'm not saying the car will have the pace of the top teams, what I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions/ write 'em off when they've hardly any real racing in the dry.

I agree with the strategist bit- he needs to go NOW.

I am not writing Michael Schumacher off, and its hard to predict where we go from here, but despite uncertainty ahead of us in this season, fact remains that first two races weren't really very impressive. Vettel may or may not recover from his misfortunes, and RBR may or may not be on the par with others, but position in today's race by both Merc drivers leaves me more than disappointed. Combine that with backstabbing in commercial division by the other teams and FOM, and one wonders what else can go wrong, if anything is actually left undamaged. I am seriously worrying they will discontinue their presence in 2013, and possibly not fully supporting developments in 2012. I would not blame them if they say NO to FOM, but it is a shame we face a such possibility. It is not a good weekend by any measure.

Edited by Sakae, 25 March 2012 - 14:52.


#18035 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 610 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:52

"But this will not be done from one race to another, it will take some time, and we need to give it that time. Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."

Which backs up my argument; who realistically thought the supposed issue was going to be solved in a back-to-back race weekend? I admit there is a problem somewhere, but it was never going to be fixed that quickly.

That doesn't necessarily mean there's panic: as Michael said: " Still it is a fact that we have improved, so I can fly home now being sure about this and looking forward to fighting in the races to come."

The problem is that they have left the tyre problem open for years. It's moved on from W01 to W02 and now to W03, i don't know if it's exactly the same thing but there it all has to do with their understanding of the tyres. Ofc, it won't be fixed in one week but i hope they won't have to waste half the season investigating and then on to W04. I don't expect miracles i only expect them to have a proper racing car even if it's slower than the top teams.

#18036 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:53

Their comments after Australia's analysis made it out like they had found the issue. Then bang, again, come race day the thing just wont go around the track quickly.

I'm not being melodramatic...I just don't see any reason to believe this team is capable of actually over-coming issues and move forward during a season.

:rotfl:

Ok you just like the others have completely written them off after 2 races.

I won't bother replying to similar responses, but bookmark this and come back in a couple of months. I bet you will see a massive improvement. :wave:

#18037 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,812 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:53

I think this is the most depressing part of the weekend:

Ross Brawn: "Clearly we have a conundrum with this car that we have to unravel. After such an encouraging qualifying session, and indeed the fuel runs that we did on Friday, we struggled to get the tyres to work properly in the race today. There were little windows when we seemed to get them working and other times where we fell out of them completely. I don't believe that we are abusing the tyres, just not using them properly, and it's a problem that we have to solve if we are going to move forward with the car"

They still don't know why this was so.


This is my point. It's almost like the car just falls in and out of the operating window. A fundamental of engineering, and just about every other endeavour, is to know your enemy.

zyphro, fine, don't respond but history tells a story.

Edited by Scotracer, 25 March 2012 - 14:54.


#18038 Octavian

Octavian
  • Member

  • 703 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:56

How could they have not spotted the tyre problem in pre season testing?

#18039 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:57

If F1 was easy, there'd be hundreds of people trying to get in. People have unrealistic expectations of what it takes to put together a team, a competitive car or a great driver at the helm. There is NEVER a simple fix in F1 unless a part was broken and they didn't catch it until after the race (like a damper etc).

It's probably gonna take 3-4 months to get better performance out of the tires unless Pirelli change the construction or compounds of the tires if too many teams complain about a certain characteristic of them.

Advertisement

#18040 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,839 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:58

Schumacher blew the start, got punted by Grosjean and had a dog of a car today, he was lucky to get that 1 point.

#18041 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 5,187 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 14:59

Well.. that was pretty much the case for EVERY single driver today in the race! :rotfl:

I don't get why people make a huge deal about qualifying in dry and racing in wet and amazed there is a difference in their performance. IT MEANS NOTHING!

Wet races are a lottery, a proven fact time and time again. Nice for news as it shakes up the results. Nice for mid pack teams as one or two usually nail it and put in a good result that they never would have otherwise. Today was Sauber.

So F1 usually wins a series when a few wet races happen as it mixes things, makes big headlines and shakes everything up.



A lottery ? Perez and Alonso was the fastest for all the race. After the SC, the track was drying until the end. It was a lottery only before the SC. After this, it was just a long stint with Inters ( W03 is unable to do this ), and a stint with slick tyres.

Today, for Mercedes, it was the same race than at Melbourne : bloody fast one lap pace, but their race pace is awful.

Edited by Massa, 25 March 2012 - 15:00.


#18042 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:00

zyphro, fine, don't respond but history tells a story.


Damn right it does. Remember how long it took Schumacher and Ferrari to win a WDC again? :wave:

#18043 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,820 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:00

A lottery ? Perez and Alonso was the fastest for all the race. After the SC, the track was drying until the end. It was a lottery only before the SC. After this, it was just a long stint with Inters ( W03 is unable to do this ), and a stint with slick tyres.

this is the MS thread

can we keep all the imature paranoia about w03 on that specific track?
there's way too much junk in here

#18044 zyphro

zyphro
  • Member

  • 742 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:01

It's probably gonna take 3-4 months to get better performance out of the tires unless Pirelli change the construction or compounds of the tires if too many teams complain about a certain characteristic of them.


This. :up:

#18045 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,430 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:06

How could they have not spotted the tyre problem in pre season testing?


OMG.. Different temperatures back then. They were heavily in R&D trying out soo many different parts and realibilty .. preseason isn't just about out right performacne due to the ridiculously short window of testing. Between doing comparison testing (2011 vs. 2012), between doing qualifying vs. race distance.. realibility testing.. time spent on the DRS modifiication they made etc. You can't do it.

PLUS...
Last weekend, MS didn't put any real # of race kms.
This weekend, wet race.

How in the world can they figure race pace or issues when they can't even run a normal program as a result of the past 2 weeks circumstances.

#18046 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,972 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:07

I dunno if it was a issue, but the temperatures were cooler then usual in Sepang, how much was the race set up qualifying geared for a hot race on Sunday...

I think we needed a proper dry race, I'm all for rain races, but I'm against them when competition is close and we have oversea races where the teamhas done work really for dry races before they get back to make improvements.

So many people set fastest laps today in the rain, I think alot of cars were strong at certain times, and MS at this time would prefer dry races to read the car on different tracks, he doesn't need to make wet set up hopes and dreams set ups, sometimes you can get rain in the wrong race, at the wrong time of the season, and I think sepang had just rained for maybe 10 laps, we would of had a better overall race for everyone.

#18047 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 5,187 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:10

Counter argument: in Aus ham and but were quickest. How come they werent quickest in the wet?

Also where was ALO, williams were quicker than ferrari in dry. What happened today? Williams were slower no?



It's not a counter argument. In 2008, Ferrari was the quickest car but Mclaren car was always the quickest in the wet.

And at Melbourne, Williams was only quicker during the last stint. Before, Alonso was quicker.

#18048 Kubiccia

Kubiccia
  • Member

  • 1,370 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 26 March 2012 - 00:02

Wet races are a lottery, a proven fact time and time again. Nice for news as it shakes up the results. Nice for mid pack teams as one or two usually nail it and put in a good result that they never would have otherwise. Today was Sauber.

The race had more than 15 laps on dry tires and Mercedes were nowhere. In this stage of dry track, Kimi did a couple of fastest laps, Webber some 3 or 4, Pastor did at least once and Perez did like 5 or 6 times.

Schumi minimized the damaged but, with W03, it will be a fight for last points all the way through this first part of the season, at least.

A lottery ? Perez and Alonso was the fastest for all the race. After the SC, the track was drying until the end. It was a lottery only before the SC. After this, it was just a long stint with Inters ( W03 is unable to do this ), and a stint with slick tyres.

Today, for Mercedes, it was the same race than at Melbourne : bloody fast one lap pace, but their race pace is awful.

:up:

#18049 ClubmanGT

ClubmanGT
  • Member

  • 1,629 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:24

How did they miss the tyre issue?

In all honesty, I suspect there was actually something else far more worrying on the W03 that they were focussing on instead of the tyres. We could all see the wear during testing, photos were posted here and we stressed, rightly as it seems. But they wouldn't have 'missed' it. I think they had something else on their mind and just decided that the tyre eating temperature problem was the lesser of two evils. Cooling maybe? Who knows. But you're right, they should have seen the wear rates and the temperature issues should have been obvious at the start of longer runs in testing.

#18050 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,962 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 26 March 2012 - 06:46

how bout both tracks had poor rubber laid down due to rain. completely different temps, wet/dry in malaysia etc. look where button ended up and hamilton looked pedestrian after the restart and vettel is not yet happy with his car.

the car has balance is quick albeit to date only over a single lap and yet friday looked very promising with mercedes demonstrating no greater tyre wear than mclaren and rbr etc. is it not entirely possible their set ups designed to combat the issues from aussie then humbled them in the wet. that is the trouble with having a weakness is that you then compound weakness with errors or more extreme set ups etc.