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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#18651 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:43

In other note, MS gearbox change can also include changed gear ratios, if I am not mistaken? Could help with overtaking.

I think gearbox change have nothing to do with ratios. They change ratios every race for the gearbox. There is one gearbox , but you can open it and change the ratios according what you need. And FIA is informed about this. But, new gear ratios will mean different tyre degradation, so I doubt it.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 07:45.


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#18652 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:48

It's easy to change just the ratio spread from say fifth to seven, and keep the lower ratios as is, if they found those are easier to get the power down with.

#18653 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:53

Let him start from the pits, change the setup to full race setup (incl. gear ratios). But as we all know these amateurs working there... he will start from P22 on softs.

#18654 nOfe4r

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:56

I think gearbox change have nothing to do with ratios. They change ratios every race for the gearbox. There is one gearbox , but you can open it and change the ratios according what you need. And FIA is informed about this. But, new gear ratios will mean different tyre degradation, so I doubt it.


When you are starting from the front you won't have a long 7th gear because DRS usage is not very likely. So you gear it for optimum non-DRS performance (shorter).
When you are at the back and need DRS-overtakes to get to the front you would be rpm-limited likely not getting beneath the other car.

Changing the gear ratios of 6th and 7th is the most likely reason for the gearbox change in my opinion.

Edited by nOfe4r, 22 April 2012 - 08:03.


#18655 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:02

What this mean? They put cross on this race? Or that MS will gain this 5 places easily? He will take new gearbox now and new one in the next race, because it is free.
I don't know, people continue saying he have fast car and DRS advantage? On the speed traps the car is nowhere, DRS advantage is traded for more DF, so it is not exist. As I said speed doesn't mean anything, there isn't naturally fast cars. There is only cars that use the tyres better and those maintain higher race pace because of that. After sacrificing so much speed in Q , I hope W03 is such car. Doing many stops will not help, to go over and over again through that same cars? You make some ground and after the pit you are again 25 sec back. I am not sure, but until now lower pit counts win?

Firstly, by fast i meant fast over a lap and not on straights. As for the DRS, ofc they don't top the speed traps but still having DRS while the guy in front of you doesn't is still an advantage, ain't it? About the many stops tbh i thought that most drivers will go for 3 and i was wrong as it seems the default strategy is a 2-stop one, i wasn't implying "i hope he does 1 more pit stop than the others to use all his tires". So to correct my previous posts i think 2 stops are fine after all the soft compound isn't worth one more stop.

#18656 stillOrange

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:03

I'm not a mechanical person at all but I thought that you need to open the gearbox to change ratios and the gearboxes are sealed between qualifications and race.

#18657 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:05

When you are starting from the from you won't have a long 7th gear because DRS usage is not very likely. So you gear it for optimum non-DRS performance (shorter).
When you are at the back and need DRS-overtakes to get to the front you would be rpm-limited likely not getting beneath the other car.

Changing the gear ratios of 6th and 7th is the most likely reason for the gearbox change in my opinion.

Maybe, as FlashMaster said to have more race setup. But, still the problem is tyre degradation. Did they try this, racing harder will damage the tyres more, so maybe he will need more pitstops then. I don't know what are rules for gearbox change, do you have to put gearbox with the same characteristic like the gearbox you change? If you can change the ratios OK, you can start 22nd, if not, to do the ratios change you need to start from the pit?

I'm not a mechanical person at all but I thought that you need to open the gearbox to change ratios and the gearboxes are sealed between qualifications and race.

Yes, I also think that they can't change it after Q start and between Q and the race(park ferme). They have to decide ratios before Q start.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 08:26.


#18658 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:10

FFS. did they really need to change his gearbox. I have lost all faith in this team. They are rubbish.

#18659 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:15

Schumacher demoted to 22nd on Bahrain grid
http://www.gpupdate....n-bahrain-grid/
It is fact now, I hope it was for tactical reasons, not for reliability.

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#18660 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:18

Schumacher demoted to 22nd on Bahrain grid
http://www.gpupdate....n-bahrain-grid/
It is fact now, I hope it was for tactical reasons, not for reliability.


I fail to see how changing the gear box is going to help him overtake on this circuit. Today is not going to be good viewing for a Schumacher fan thats for sure.

#18661 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25

At last some good news to wake up to. :smoking:

:stoned:

#18662 Juan Kerr

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25

It's a pitty Schumacher isn't so good anymore. Here it's his 2006 bahrain pole


This laps is absolutely perfect, doesn't miss a single apex and not the slightest mistake. Just look how he perfectly puts the car just before the kerbs on most corners

The pole of 2012 is much worse


Vettel misses some apexes and have not perfect line as MSC


Makes me laugh people dishing out advice to these drivers on where they're going wrong with their laps etc. Michael Schumacher used to miss apexes on purpose due to the balance characteristics of his setup. It's like the drivers who have a car that has low rear grip taking a deep angle into corners with a slower minimum speed so they can chance the car direction quicker at lower speed. They can get on the gas much quicker and use less distance in the corner. some people would say they're not using all the track and others driver are braver because they turn in from out wider and faster. None of you know what you're talking about, not even Mark Hughes knows what he's talking about if yo read his articles. None of us are driving these particular cars, none of us know how well any of them are dealing with the setup they've come up its for those particular cars.

#18663 F1Champion

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:27

It's a joke, why the heck is the gearbox lasting next to nothing in terms of mileage. Didn't they change after Australia? That means that gearbox hasn't even done one full race weekend. That is poor reliability.

#18664 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:29

It's a joke, why the heck is the gearbox lasting next to nothing in terms of mileage. Didn't they change after Australia? That means that gearbox hasn't even done one full race weekend. That is poor reliability.


The team just seem to be trying to make it as hard as possible for him today. They say as he was near the back we thought we would change it. (lets make his weekend even harder)

I am not expecting him to finish the race.

#18665 slideways

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:30

Erm, it was a cautionary change since he was already starting near the back. Means that he will have a fresher box come the end of the year.

#18666 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:31

I think they feel this change is "almost free" and they took the opportunity to do so. Perhaps it incorporates some other gear ratios. We'll see.

Let's pray for a copy of Spa '11, but don't count on it.

#18667 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:31

I fail to see how changing the gear box is going to help him overtake on this circuit. Today is not going to be good viewing for a Schumacher fan thats for sure.

There is many options, one of them is they put cross on that race and they are thinking Barcelona already. He can use new gearbox there too. It is free after you get one 5 grid penalty on the race before(LH did it this race).


#18668 slideways

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:32

They can change ratios x amount of times without suffering a box penalty so it wouldn't have been for that.

#18669 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:33

There is many options, one of them is they put cross on that race and they are thinking Barcelona already. He can use new gearbox there too. It is free after you get one 5 grid penalty on the race before(LH did it this race).

You are so optimistic. You're great man!

Tell me how you keep faith that this team actually explores possible options and (tries to) make a well-balanced choice?

#18670 nOfe4r

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:33

They can change ratios x amount of times without suffering a box penalty so it wouldn't have been for that.


Between Qualy and Race?

#18671 Sakae

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:35

How many gearboxes are allocated for a season? He had one down already.

#18672 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:36

How many gearboxes are allocated for a season? He had one down already.

I think they just have to last 5 races. The penalty for changing one before the 5 races have gone by is a grid penalty. Don't think he can get into trouble at the end of the season because of a lack of new gearboxes.

#18673 RedBaron

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:42

I am confident Schumacher will shine today. Bring on the race!

#18674 hello86

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:44

Not a fan of him but this guy has the worst of luck this season! Hope he will have a good race today :up:

#18675 Mestrades

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:48

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.

#18676 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:51

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.

I take that offer. Where to sign? :clap:

#18677 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:53

I take that offer. Where to sign? :clap:


Posted Image
Please sign here. We'll fill in the rest.

#18678 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:57

Posted Image
Please sign here. We'll fill in the rest.

I changed my mind, I am waiting for better offer. If MS is in top 10 after 4 laps, he will win this race. :wave:

3 hours to the race- Overoptimistic , battle mode, engaged. :cool:

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 09:03.


#18679 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:59

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.


Hopefully! But the team will find a way to sabotage his race. To let him start on softs, wrong tyre pressure etc.

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#18680 UnspecialEffects

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:01

Hopefully! But the team will find a way to sabotage his race. To let him start on softs, wrong tyre pressure etc.


Why do you say that, are Mercedes mistaken prone?

#18681 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:03

Why do you say that, are Mercedes mistaken prone?

:up: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#18682 DracoN

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:26

They can change ratios x amount of times without suffering a box penalty so it wouldn't have been for that.

Gear ratios are fixed, if they change them so shumi should start from bit

#18683 Richardc

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:31

Ok, this mood is changing to optimisitc and i'm in. Storming race through the field to take home some valuable points.

#18684 Zauba

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:33

Maybe, as FlashMaster said to have more race setup. But, still the problem is tyre degradation. Did they try this, racing harder will damage the tyres more, so maybe he will need more pitstops then. I don't know what are rules for gearbox change, do you have to put gearbox with the same characteristic like the gearbox you change? If you can change the ratios OK, you can start 22nd, if not, to do the ratios change you need to start from the pit?


Yes, I also think that they can't change it after Q start and between Q and the race(park ferme). They have to decide ratios before Q start.

AFAIK, the gear ratio must be defined after FP2 and then no more change is allowed

#18685 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:34

If you take a new gearbox, I'm sure you can also change the ratios! (??)

#18686 nOfe4r

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:35

Okay then the DRS gearing theorie goes bust unfortunately.

#18687 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:42

I think the rules are grey in this aspect. The parc ferme rules state you cannot do anything on the car except a list of exceptions. The gear box replace rule just says you take a 5 place grid penalty. Never does it say the replacement gear box must have the same gear ratios as the replaced one.

However a team can only use 30 gear box ratios per season, and must provide the FIA with them before the first race. So they might have chosen one that they intended to use on a different track.

#18688 RedBaron

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:51

It's drizzling with rain, conditions are cooler too. Someone create a theory.

#18689 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:52

It's drizzling with rain, conditions are cooler too. Someone create a theory.

It must be the FIA sprinklers. I can't believe it actually rains in Bahrain.

It's in the middle of the desert!

#18690 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:54

It's drizzling with rain, conditions are cooler too. Someone create a theory.


Some idiot crashes into Schumacher because they missed their braking point.

#18691 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:57

It's drizzling with rain, conditions are cooler too. Someone create a theory.

Yeah, it is time to start from the pit. Change the setup for the 4-5-6 degree cooler temperature. It is really interesting for what temperatures teams setup their cars for today. 4-5 degree off can play well for MS, if he change his set up for the actual temperature. Not expecting wet race.

#18692 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:58

Informative, Augurk, but about the part fermé rules, Schumacher's car was taken out probably yesterday evening or early this morning.

#18693 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:00

Informative, Augurk, but about the part fermé rules, Schumacher's car was taken out probably yesterday evening or early this morning.

If he was taken out of Parc ferme he would have to start from the pits, so I don't think he was. Just a permitted replacement of the gear box with the subsequent penalty applied.

#18694 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:01

Yeah, it is time to start from the pit. Change the setup for the 4-5-6 degree cooler temperature. It is really interesting for what temperatures teams setup their cars for today. 4-5 degree off can play well for MS, if he change his set up for the actual temperature. Not expecting wet race.


They won't do it, his name is not Rosberg.



#18695 Longtimefan

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:05

22nd? God it goes from bad to worse.

I can't see him getting past the first 5 laps with some of the muppets at the back.
Sick of this team, not sure I even want to watch now, there's only so much pain I can take.


#18696 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:11

If he was taken out of Parc ferme he would have to start from the pits, so I don't think he was. Just a permitted replacement of the gear box with the subsequent penalty applied.


Ah, right! When you take the car out of part fermé you automatically have to start from the pit lane, of course.

#18697 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:12

Dear Ross Brawn, with Michael starting from P22 and changing conditions. What's your conclusion? I expect the worst (no setup change, start from P22 and on softs :rotfl: )

http://yfrog.com/o0c2ttdj

#18698 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:12

22nd? God it goes from bad to worse.

I can't see him getting past the first 5 laps with some of the muppets at the back.
Sick of this team, not sure I even want to watch now, there's only so much pain I can take.

Worst will be if there will be wet race. Battling all day with Petrov and Kova.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 10:12.


#18699 Urawa

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:46

Who sais it can't get worse? ): :rolleyes:

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#18700 stillOrange

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:52

If you take a new gearbox, I'm sure you can also change the ratios! (??)

That is my understanding as well. Is there any other topic where we could find confirmation?