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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#18651 SenorSjon

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 17:58

The wire rope of the DRS was broken, says AMuS
Button said he wouldn´t write Michael off for the race tomorrow due to the tyre situation


The same rope they produce wheel nuts and gearboxes from? :p

I guess tomorrow it will be race damage or an engine failure that spells his doom. It's Mercedes failure bingo with his car.
race 1: ~20%
race 2: 100%
race 3: ~20%

Rosberg has covered more than twice the distance. :eek:

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#18652 Augurk

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 18:36

The Kovalainen moment reminded me of a certain edition of ROC... :)

#18653 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 18:59

That's a load of bull****. Some of you think the team is conspiring against him which is more bull****. He's having a run of bad luck. It happens in racing.

Seriously guys, it's a crock when LH 'fans' play the conspiracy card, and it's the same pile of smelly poo when you say it here.

Don't degrade yourself or your driver by making such silly claims that you can't possibly substantiate.

Frustrating, yes... immensely. Conspiracy... No.

#18654 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 19:11

Starting so far back among the backmarkers fills me with dread, I'm expecting him to lose a front wing on lap 1-2 and probably to DNF within 20 laps. (although I'd dearly love him to fly through the field and finish ahead of Britney)

I know he still has the talent and skill, just so much bad luck or is it.. Merc seriously need to sort themselves out.
They have a legend in the team and they are wasting his skill.

Edited by Longtimefan, 21 April 2012 - 19:11.


#18655 Pamphlet

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 19:14

The Kovalainen moment reminded me of a certain edition of ROC... :)


I loved that moment. Heikki at his finest.

#18656 spacekid

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 21:04

Seriously guys, it's a crock when LH 'fans' play the conspiracy card, and it's the same pile of smelly poo when you say it here.

Don't degrade yourself or your driver by making such silly claims that you can't possibly substantiate.

Frustrating, yes... immensely. Conspiracy... No.


I agree MightyMoose, no conspiracy, its just how the cards fall. Its frustrating, nothing more.

#18657 Sakae

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 02:10

Nothing more? How about his last chance EVER to fight for WDC? I though that's why we came in, haven't we?

Edited by Sakae, 22 April 2012 - 02:11.


#18658 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:18

Nothing more? How about his last chance EVER to fight for WDC? I though that's why we came in, haven't we?

You can't fight for WDC if you car is not operational. And if you do half the mileage.
How about one stop less today?

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 06:20.


#18659 Spa95

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:22

Nothing more? How about his last chance EVER to fight for WDC? I though that's why we came in, haven't we?

Hear! Hear!

Those three technical problems have already caused irreparable damage to his 2012 campaign.

Edited by Spa95, 22 April 2012 - 06:25.


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#18660 fisssssi

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:23

How about one stop less today?


What's the point of doing one stop less if the only trump card he has is all the tyres he has saved?

#18661 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 06:25

What's the point of doing one stop less if the only trump card he has is all the tyres he has saved?

I don't think he intended to save so many sets before Q started. But, still if he can do one stop less, he will not sit and think about his new tyres left unused.


#18662 RedBaron

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:02

Possibly a gearbox change for Schumacher according to Brundle on Twitter

I'm hearing that Michael Schumacher will have a gearbox change and take a 5 place grid drop while he's towards the back anyway.



#18663 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:15

I don't think he intended to save so many sets before Q started. But, still if he can do one stop less, he will not sit and think about his new tyres left unused.

Imo Bahrain is not the track to try to make such a strategy work. Especially, when starting so far behind ( probably even further back as RedBaron mentions ) i don't think his tires will last and as you said yesterday the field is too close this year i think it will be tougher to gain positions like that. Imo it would be better to gain advantage of DRS and his faster car in order to recover asap and then hopefully his saved tire sets may help him push more towards the end of the race and score some points. For some reason he can have a decent race and take advantage of the tyre problems others may face. Hopefully his tires will work well and he will have good pace.

#18664 stillOrange

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:22

I'm a bit surprised with so many people here predicting bad outcomes and worrying that Michael will be involved in incidents with midfield drivers. I think you guys should be more optimistic. Look at last race, it can be done! Almost no incidents in the midfield!

#18665 Zauba

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:25

It's a pitty Schumacher isn't so good anymore. Here it's his 2006 bahrain pole


This laps is absolutely perfect, doesn't miss a single apex and not the slightest mistake. Just look how he perfectly puts the car just before the kerbs on most corners

The pole of 2012 is much worse


Vettel misses some apexes and have not perfect line as MSC

#18666 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:29

Possibly a gearbox change for Schumacher according to Brundle on Twitter

What this mean? They put cross on this race? Or that MS will gain this 5 places easily? He will take new gearbox now and new one in the next race, because it is free.
I don't know, people continue saying he have fast car and DRS advantage? On the speed traps the car is nowhere, DRS advantage is traded for more DF, so it is not exist. As I said speed doesn't mean anything, there isn't naturally fast cars. There is only cars that use the tyres better and those maintain higher race pace because of that. After sacrificing so much speed in Q , I hope W03 is such car. Doing many stops will not help, to go over and over again through that same cars? You make some ground and after the pit you are again 25 sec back. I am not sure, but until now lower pit counts win?

Zauba, I think you answer to your question alone. Different rules(Q format), tyres. Different way of driving.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 07:38.


#18667 RedBaron

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:31

What this mean? They put cross on this race? Or that MS will gain this 5 places easily? He will take new gearbox now and new one in the next race, because it is free.
I don't know, people continue saying he have fast car and DRS advantage? On the speed traps the cat is nowhere, DRS advantage is traded for more DF, so it is not exist. As I said speed doesn't mean anything, there isn't naturally fast cars. There is only cars that use the tyres better and those maintain higher race pace because of that. After sacrificing so much speed in Q , I hope W03 is such car. Doing many stops will not help, to go over and over again through that same cars? You make some ground and after the pit you are again 25 sec back.


I assume he will gain those 5 places fairly easily... so they felt it was a sacrifice they were willing to make. maybe start him from the pit lane too to make some set=up changes on race day? Who knows.

#18668 Snuggie

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:38

It's a pitty Schumacher isn't so good anymore. Here it's his 2006 bahrain pole


This laps is absolutely perfect, doesn't miss a single apex and not the slightest mistake. Just look how he perfectly puts the car just before the kerbs on most corners

The pole of 2012 is much worse


Vettel misses some apexes and have not perfect line as MSC

The cars in 2006 had a lot more downforce.

In other note, MS gearbox change can also include changed gear ratios, if I am not mistaken? Could help with overtaking.

#18669 stillOrange

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:41

In other note, MS gearbox change can also include changed gear ratios, if I am not mistaken? Could help with overtaking.

I think you've made a very good point here!

#18670 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:43

In other note, MS gearbox change can also include changed gear ratios, if I am not mistaken? Could help with overtaking.

I think gearbox change have nothing to do with ratios. They change ratios every race for the gearbox. There is one gearbox , but you can open it and change the ratios according what you need. And FIA is informed about this. But, new gear ratios will mean different tyre degradation, so I doubt it.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 07:45.


#18671 race addicted

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:48

It's easy to change just the ratio spread from say fifth to seven, and keep the lower ratios as is, if they found those are easier to get the power down with.

#18672 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:53

Let him start from the pits, change the setup to full race setup (incl. gear ratios). But as we all know these amateurs working there... he will start from P22 on softs.

#18673 nOfe4r

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:56

I think gearbox change have nothing to do with ratios. They change ratios every race for the gearbox. There is one gearbox , but you can open it and change the ratios according what you need. And FIA is informed about this. But, new gear ratios will mean different tyre degradation, so I doubt it.


When you are starting from the front you won't have a long 7th gear because DRS usage is not very likely. So you gear it for optimum non-DRS performance (shorter).
When you are at the back and need DRS-overtakes to get to the front you would be rpm-limited likely not getting beneath the other car.

Changing the gear ratios of 6th and 7th is the most likely reason for the gearbox change in my opinion.

Edited by nOfe4r, 22 April 2012 - 08:03.


#18674 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:02

What this mean? They put cross on this race? Or that MS will gain this 5 places easily? He will take new gearbox now and new one in the next race, because it is free.
I don't know, people continue saying he have fast car and DRS advantage? On the speed traps the car is nowhere, DRS advantage is traded for more DF, so it is not exist. As I said speed doesn't mean anything, there isn't naturally fast cars. There is only cars that use the tyres better and those maintain higher race pace because of that. After sacrificing so much speed in Q , I hope W03 is such car. Doing many stops will not help, to go over and over again through that same cars? You make some ground and after the pit you are again 25 sec back. I am not sure, but until now lower pit counts win?

Firstly, by fast i meant fast over a lap and not on straights. As for the DRS, ofc they don't top the speed traps but still having DRS while the guy in front of you doesn't is still an advantage, ain't it? About the many stops tbh i thought that most drivers will go for 3 and i was wrong as it seems the default strategy is a 2-stop one, i wasn't implying "i hope he does 1 more pit stop than the others to use all his tires". So to correct my previous posts i think 2 stops are fine after all the soft compound isn't worth one more stop.

#18675 stillOrange

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:03

I'm not a mechanical person at all but I thought that you need to open the gearbox to change ratios and the gearboxes are sealed between qualifications and race.

#18676 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:05

When you are starting from the from you won't have a long 7th gear because DRS usage is not very likely. So you gear it for optimum non-DRS performance (shorter).
When you are at the back and need DRS-overtakes to get to the front you would be rpm-limited likely not getting beneath the other car.

Changing the gear ratios of 6th and 7th is the most likely reason for the gearbox change in my opinion.

Maybe, as FlashMaster said to have more race setup. But, still the problem is tyre degradation. Did they try this, racing harder will damage the tyres more, so maybe he will need more pitstops then. I don't know what are rules for gearbox change, do you have to put gearbox with the same characteristic like the gearbox you change? If you can change the ratios OK, you can start 22nd, if not, to do the ratios change you need to start from the pit?

I'm not a mechanical person at all but I thought that you need to open the gearbox to change ratios and the gearboxes are sealed between qualifications and race.

Yes, I also think that they can't change it after Q start and between Q and the race(park ferme). They have to decide ratios before Q start.

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 08:26.


#18677 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:10

FFS. did they really need to change his gearbox. I have lost all faith in this team. They are rubbish.

#18678 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:15

Schumacher demoted to 22nd on Bahrain grid
http://www.gpupdate....n-bahrain-grid/
It is fact now, I hope it was for tactical reasons, not for reliability.

#18679 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:18

Schumacher demoted to 22nd on Bahrain grid
http://www.gpupdate....n-bahrain-grid/
It is fact now, I hope it was for tactical reasons, not for reliability.


I fail to see how changing the gear box is going to help him overtake on this circuit. Today is not going to be good viewing for a Schumacher fan thats for sure.

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#18680 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25

At last some good news to wake up to. :smoking:

:stoned:

#18681 Juan Kerr

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:25

It's a pitty Schumacher isn't so good anymore. Here it's his 2006 bahrain pole


This laps is absolutely perfect, doesn't miss a single apex and not the slightest mistake. Just look how he perfectly puts the car just before the kerbs on most corners

The pole of 2012 is much worse


Vettel misses some apexes and have not perfect line as MSC


Makes me laugh people dishing out advice to these drivers on where they're going wrong with their laps etc. Michael Schumacher used to miss apexes on purpose due to the balance characteristics of his setup. It's like the drivers who have a car that has low rear grip taking a deep angle into corners with a slower minimum speed so they can chance the car direction quicker at lower speed. They can get on the gas much quicker and use less distance in the corner. some people would say they're not using all the track and others driver are braver because they turn in from out wider and faster. None of you know what you're talking about, not even Mark Hughes knows what he's talking about if yo read his articles. None of us are driving these particular cars, none of us know how well any of them are dealing with the setup they've come up its for those particular cars.

#18682 F1Champion

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:27

It's a joke, why the heck is the gearbox lasting next to nothing in terms of mileage. Didn't they change after Australia? That means that gearbox hasn't even done one full race weekend. That is poor reliability.

#18683 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:29

It's a joke, why the heck is the gearbox lasting next to nothing in terms of mileage. Didn't they change after Australia? That means that gearbox hasn't even done one full race weekend. That is poor reliability.


The team just seem to be trying to make it as hard as possible for him today. They say as he was near the back we thought we would change it. (lets make his weekend even harder)

I am not expecting him to finish the race.

#18684 slideways

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:30

Erm, it was a cautionary change since he was already starting near the back. Means that he will have a fresher box come the end of the year.

#18685 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:31

I think they feel this change is "almost free" and they took the opportunity to do so. Perhaps it incorporates some other gear ratios. We'll see.

Let's pray for a copy of Spa '11, but don't count on it.

#18686 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:31

I fail to see how changing the gear box is going to help him overtake on this circuit. Today is not going to be good viewing for a Schumacher fan thats for sure.

There is many options, one of them is they put cross on that race and they are thinking Barcelona already. He can use new gearbox there too. It is free after you get one 5 grid penalty on the race before(LH did it this race).


#18687 slideways

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:32

They can change ratios x amount of times without suffering a box penalty so it wouldn't have been for that.

#18688 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:33

There is many options, one of them is they put cross on that race and they are thinking Barcelona already. He can use new gearbox there too. It is free after you get one 5 grid penalty on the race before(LH did it this race).

You are so optimistic. You're great man!

Tell me how you keep faith that this team actually explores possible options and (tries to) make a well-balanced choice?

#18689 nOfe4r

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:33

They can change ratios x amount of times without suffering a box penalty so it wouldn't have been for that.


Between Qualy and Race?

#18690 Sakae

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:35

How many gearboxes are allocated for a season? He had one down already.

#18691 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:36

How many gearboxes are allocated for a season? He had one down already.

I think they just have to last 5 races. The penalty for changing one before the 5 races have gone by is a grid penalty. Don't think he can get into trouble at the end of the season because of a lack of new gearboxes.

#18692 RedBaron

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:42

I am confident Schumacher will shine today. Bring on the race!

#18693 hello86

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:44

Not a fan of him but this guy has the worst of luck this season! Hope he will have a good race today :up:

#18694 Mestrades

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:48

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.

#18695 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:51

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.

I take that offer. Where to sign? :clap:

#18696 Augurk

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:53

I take that offer. Where to sign? :clap:


Posted Image
Please sign here. We'll fill in the rest.

#18697 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:57

Posted Image
Please sign here. We'll fill in the rest.

I changed my mind, I am waiting for better offer. If MS is in top 10 after 4 laps, he will win this race. :wave:

3 hours to the race- Overoptimistic , battle mode, engaged. :cool:

Edited by ivand911, 22 April 2012 - 09:03.


#18698 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 08:59

I think that in 3 o 4 laps Schumy will be on the top 10. With the DDRS it will be easy for him. With a good strategy he can finish 6th or 7th.


Hopefully! But the team will find a way to sabotage his race. To let him start on softs, wrong tyre pressure etc.

#18699 UnspecialEffects

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:01

Hopefully! But the team will find a way to sabotage his race. To let him start on softs, wrong tyre pressure etc.


Why do you say that, are Mercedes mistaken prone?

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#18700 Lelouch

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:03

Why do you say that, are Mercedes mistaken prone?

:up: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: