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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#18751 Scotracer

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:51

I echo Michael's comments. Watching the cars in Turn 1-3 was not much fun as you could SEE them having to nurse it. If you compare the driving style with a few years ago where they'd throw the car at turn 2...well, it was almost like an outlap for a quali run.

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#18752 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 17:56

seeing Kimi on the podium in his fourth race since returning to F1... I could help to think that MS still hasn't been on the podium since his comeback.


Fail. Kimi is 10 years younger.

#18753 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:11

I echo Michael's comments. Watching the cars in Turn 1-3 was not much fun as you could SEE them having to nurse it. If you compare the driving style with a few years ago where they'd throw the car at turn 2...well, it was almost like an outlap for a quali run.

Yupp. Drivers are no longer contesting during the first stint because their tires were hammered in qualifying and the worst they could do is push like idiots for 2 laps to then lose pace a few laps later and loosing the gained position, or worse, having to pit early and be faced with driving older tyres at the end of the race.

F1 is not a place for racers this year.

#18754 PretentiousBread

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:14

I echo Michael's comments. Watching the cars in Turn 1-3 was not much fun as you could SEE them having to nurse it. If you compare the driving style with a few years ago where they'd throw the car at turn 2...well, it was almost like an outlap for a quali run.


Yup, noticed a lot of short shifting through there too.

#18755 sharo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:24

Having read Michael's view on the tyres I begin to worry hadn't he made a decision to call it a day and leave the farce he found himself in on his return.

#18756 finignig

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 18:59

Looking at the best sector times, it's quite shocking to see Schumacher in 19th for sector 2 - and no better than 12th and 13th in sectors 1 and 2.


Dont find it shocking at all, Guess that is a good thing these days, to "pace yourself" and he was doing just that to make sure the tires last him long enough in each stint while steadily moving through the field.

#18757 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:14

His car just won the Chinese GP.. also his team mate was on the podium in the first year of Mercedes. If Michael was "Michael Schumacher" he would have been replaced already. Lets hope his luck changes soon. It hurts to see the man lingering in midfield.

So what? There is different winer every race? Do you remember such thing happen before? Do you think Kimi will manage well undesteery car like W01 with Bridgestones? We saw how much time the team worked on his steering.


#18758 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:16

But isn't the consensus that everyone else is also pacing themselves? So how is it that only the three bottom teams and Maldonado were slower in S2?

#18759 Octavian

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:18

Fail. Kimi is 10 years younger.


Indeed. I'm tired of this silly comparison between Kimi and Michael today. If there was a 32yr old Michael in that Lotus today not a slightly chubby looking 32yr old Finn then Lotus would have scored a win today not P2.

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#18760 spacekid

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:19

But isn't the consensus that everyone else is also pacing themselves? So how is it that only the three bottom teams and Maldonado were slower in S2?


True. I think this is in part to do with Michael being in amonst traffic for most of the race and having to make his way up. That will take it out of already marginal tyres. He wasn't much behind Rosberg in the end, and other teams also struggled to get the pace you would expect. Look at Button.

#18761 glorius&victorius

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:21

Fail. Kimi is 10 years younger.


oh so now age does matter? Michael is coming back already for 3 seasons... even Brundle is not having fun anymore seeing him fail race after race.

Edited by glorius&victorius, 22 April 2012 - 19:23.


#18762 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:23

oh so now age does matter? Michael is coming back already for 3 seasons... even Brundle is not having fun anymore seeing his fail.


Even Brundle?! Oh, noes...

Let's wait for a clean weekend. It would his first this year.

#18763 jj2728

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:24

Indeed. I'm tired of this silly comparison between Kimi and Michael today. If there was a 32yr old Michael in that Lotus today not a slightly chubby looking 32yr old Finn then Lotus would have scored a win today not P2.


You're making the comparisons not others. It's only stated fact that Kimi did it in the 4th GP of his return. The rest of your statement is immature conjecture, nothing more.

#18764 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:26

Ah, so glorius&victorius was not making a comparison between results of the comebacks. Good to know.

The situations between the two drivers are so comparable.

Edited by Buttoneer, 23 April 2012 - 18:53.


#18765 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:26

Michael middle sector was not good all weekend, maybe he was really taking it easy there. To save the tyres in the corners. I also think he is not happy with the tyres and their total domination in F1. He would say something like that: I didn't come back to drive like grandma. I doubt he will continue in 2013. What is the point if you can't push everything to the limit? This is how he won his 7 WDC.

#18766 Boing 2

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:28

Michael middle sector was not good all weekend, maybe he was really taking it easy there. To save the tyres in the corners. I also think he is not happy with the tyres and their total domination in F1. He would say something like that: I didn't come back to drive like grandma. I doubt he will continue in 2013. What is the point if you can't push everything to the limit? This is how he won his 7 WDC.



I'm sure having the best car on the grid was some help though.....

#18767 jj2728

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:31

Ah, so glorius&victorius was not making a comparison between results of the comebacks. Good to know.

The situations between the two drivers are so comparable.


I have to ask, why are the situations between the 2 drivers so comparable? That they are both returning former WDCs?

#18768 jj2728

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:32

I'm sure having the best car on the grid was some help though.....


That and having the team built around him.....

#18769 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:35

I have to ask, why are the situations between the 2 drivers so comparable? That they are both returning former WDCs?

What are you expecting? To tell you what MS could do if gearbox didn't fail in Aus, if RG didn't hit him in MAL, If he didn't finish in the grass in China, if his DRS didn't fail in Q1 in BAH? What exactly? How that compare to Kimi or Nico?

I'm sure having the best car on the grid was some help though.....

You don't get the point. Not surprising. Will say it slowly to understand it: In that times they all pushed the cars. This how they drive back then. And MS pushed all the time.
And he didn't win all his titles in the best teams and the best cars. You know it ,but still you want me to tell you that.

Edited by Buttoneer, 23 April 2012 - 18:54.


#18770 Diablobb81

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:38

I have to ask, why are the situations between the 2 drivers so comparable? That they are both returning former WDCs?


It isn't comparable. That's the point.

And FlashMaster correctly called glorius&victorius out on it. You stepped in saying (wrongly) that it was FlashMaster who made the comparisons.

P.S. I didn't know he had the fastest car and a handpicked team for all his 7 WDC's. You get history rewritten every day.

Edited by Buttoneer, 23 April 2012 - 18:55.


#18771 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:45

Pirelli responds to Michael Schumacher's criticism of its tyres
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99103

#18772 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 19:58

oh so now age does matter? Michael is coming back already for 3 seasons... even Brundle is not having fun anymore seeing him fail race after race.


Who said age wouldn't matter? Of course it does. It's impressive that a 43year old man is still able to beat most of the field.

#18773 sharo

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:00

Pirelli responds to Michael Schumacher's criticism of its tyres
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99103

Time to leave, Michael.
Leave the clowns do their circus.

#18774 FlashMaster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:02

Time to leave, Michael.
Leave the clowns do their circus.


Amen. And leave this Clown-team.

#18775 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:21

seeing Kimi on the podium in his fourth race since returning to F1... I could help to think that MS still hasn't been on the podium since his comeback.



No doubt you love that fact as u hate the man, and want him to retire.

It is what it is Michael has been unlucky and could of had podiums in the 2 of the first 3 races maybe. Not to mention Canada last year.

Comparing this years Lotus with the last few Mercedes is silly. Even Kimi will tell you that.

#18776 KavB

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:27

I'm gutted he only has 2 points after 4 races... His season is effectively over already. The Merc clearly can fight for the title yet everything has gone wrong for Michael!

#18777 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:36

I'm gutted he only has 2 points after 4 races... His season is effectively over already. The Merc clearly can fight for the title yet everything has gone wrong for Michael!



I am yet to be convinced Merc has made a championship challanging car. China good easy be a flash in the pan.

#18778 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:38

Out of a potential 8 podiums in the first four races, Mercedes have scored ONE.

They have a race winning race, it just shows how badly they have squandered their potential.

You lose championship points, titles, prestige, honour and millions of dollars with clumsy mistakes like China, DRS issues in Bahrain etc.

I was looking forward to Monza, but knowing Mercedes they'll have lost their DRS advantage and find a way to cock up their race there too.

At least Nico is salvaging something from this outfit. However, it isn't a WDC winning outfit. I also don't see Schumacher resigning for 2013 unless they have a strong end to 2012.

#18779 Longtimefan

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:44

I think he's fed up now and thinking of walking at the end of 2012.

Well done to Merc for wasting his talents for 3 seasons straight. :mad:

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#18780 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:45

Out of a potential 8 podiums in the first four races, Mercedes have scored ONE.

They have a race winning race, it just shows how badly they have squandered their potential.

You lose championship points, titles, prestige, honour and millions of dollars with clumsy mistakes like China, DRS issues in Bahrain etc.

I was looking forward to Monza, but knowing Mercedes they'll have lost their DRS advantage and find a way to cock up their race there too.

At least Nico is salvaging something from this outfit. However, it isn't a WDC winning outfit. I also don't see Schumacher resigning for 2013 unless they have a strong end to 2012.



No he seemed angry today and if tyres do not get better he will not resign. However full credit to him staying for 3 years. I am sure many other drivers would of left after year 1.

#18781 kissTheApex

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:46

Pirelli responds to Michael Schumacher's criticism of its tyres
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99103


Well I believe M.S. has a point there. Ever since last year, it's become a tire management exercise hasn't it?

#18782 kissTheApex

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:46

Pirelli responds to Michael Schumacher's criticism of its tyres
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99103


Well I believe M.S. has a point there. Ever since last year, it's become a tire management exercise hasn't it?

#18783 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:55

His car just won the Chinese GP.. also his team mate was on the podium in the first year of Mercedes. If Michael was "Michael Schumacher" he would have been replaced already. Lets hope his luck changes soon. It hurts to see the man lingering in midfield.

are you that narrow minded?
his car failed while 3rd in Australia, 2nd in China, his DRS failed on Q1 and had a gearbox change after that
who care what the sister car f**ing did?
In his only race without huge problems he outraced his team mate.

#18784 jj2728

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 20:58

What are you expecting? To tell you what MS could do if gearbox didn't fail in Aus, if RG didn't hit him in MAL, If he didn't finish in the grass in China, if his DRS didn't fail in Q1 in BAH? What exactly? How that compare to Kimi or Nico?


You don't get the point. Not surprising. Will say it slowly to understand it: In that times they all pushed the cars. This how they drive back then. And MS pushed all the time.
And he didn't win all his titles in the best teams and the best cars. You know it ,but still you want me to tell you that.


He's had a run of bad luck plain and simple. He has to deal with the tyre issue just as everyone else does, plain and simple. If he were winning none of you would be jumping on the anti-Pirelli bandwagon. If it's not one thing it's another.
Kimi has reached the podium in the 4th race of his return and Schumacher has yet to do so. That is a fact, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with being a hater or not. To make nyself very clear and you can look it up if you choose, I have repeatedly said that given the car both MS and NR are more than capable of reaching the top step of the podium. So far Nico has done so, Michael can do the same. As I've said, he's just had a run of bad luck. It's racing it happens.

#18785 ivand911

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 21:03

Well I believe M.S. has a point there. Ever since last year, it's become a tire management exercise hasn't it?

It is. Tyre is the word of 2012.


#18786 Sakae

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 21:08

He's had a run of bad luck plain and simple. He has to deal with the tyre issue just as everyone else does, plain and simple. If he were winning none of you would be jumping on the anti-Pirelli bandwagon. If it's not one thing it's another.
Kimi has reached the podium in the 4th race of his return and Schumacher has yet to do so. That is a fact, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with being a hater or not. To make nyself very clear and you can look it up if you choose, I have repeatedly said that given the car both MS and NR are more than capable of reaching the top step of the podium. So far Nico has done so, Michael can do the same. As I've said, he's just had a run of bad luck. It's racing it happens.

Not entirely accurate. I am Seb's (and Michael's fan), Seb won, and I still do not consider tire specification as a happy solution to good racing that I like.

#18787 weston

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 21:09

Schumacher has a valid point. I am happy he raised his voice.
Pirelli with its extreme tyre lottery undermines two important elements of F1: car development (WDC) and the race of the fastest drivers (WCC). This tyre lottery is nothing else than Bernie's artificial rain idea embedded into tyres.

When Alonso's and Vettel's and Hamilton's fans are saying the same as Schumacher's fans there is something very wrong.

#18788 LiJu914

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 21:44

Summary of the first part of the season:

Looked better than Rosberg in the first two races, worse in China and about equal in race pace (considering timing-comparison) today.

And as a result he is.... well... 33 points behind his teammate.

F1 can be a cruel sometimes for some drivers.

Edited by LiJu914, 22 April 2012 - 21:44.


#18789 jjpm

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 22:41

Posted Image


#18790 valachus

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 23:27

His car just won the Chinese GP.

No, during the Chinese GP his car left the pits of the Shanghai International Circuit with a badly fastened right front tyre, subsequently forcing its driver to pull over in the same lap and end his race prematurely.

Edited by valachus, 22 April 2012 - 23:33.


#18791 SB

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:18

It is. Tyre is the word of 2012.


New to F1 ? Isnt Tire ALWAYS the word in F1 ?

Even Micheal championship in 2005 was saved by the late season change to tire rules that gave the advantage back to Ferrari / Bridgestone from Williams / Michelin?

#18792 ali_M

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:22

New to F1 ? Isnt Tire ALWAYS the word in F1 ?

Even Micheal championship in 2005 was saved by the late season change to tire rules that gave the advantage back to Ferrari / Bridgestone from Williams / Michelin?


Tyres may have always been a part of the word... but not THE WORD.

Something is wrong when it's no longer about ever finding the limit in raw pace during any part of the race, but instead it's about tippy toeing to prevent the tyres falling off drastically before those of another competitor.

I don't see what the issue is in seeing this basic point.

BTW, no one is saying that tyre management wasn't always an issue. It's a matter of degree here. It's now way too much of an issue. It's taking away from the opportunity to witness outright racing on the limit. How many drivers span off or ran wide because they were on the limit today. It's actually very telling.

#18793 steveninthematrix

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:45

yes, this sounds ridiculous, but what is more ridiculous is how often

something breaks on Michaels car, kers, DRS, gearbox, throttle, suddenly losing drive, or pitstop problems or or....

Its like a mechanic from williams from the early 90's is working at Merc now, because things just continue to break every race on Michael's car, either in quali or the race....; remember Michael's comments last year, about how it felt DRS made his car go slower at some races; it sounds totally ridiculous, I agree, but what is more ridiculous is how almost every race, something fails on Michael's car

#18794 Jazza

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:53

yes, this sounds ridiculous, but what is more ridiculous is how often

something breaks on Michaels car, kers, DRS, gearbox, throttle, suddenly losing drive, or pitstop problems or or....

Its like a mechanic from williams from the early 90's is working at Merc now, because things just continue to break every race on Michael's car, either in quali or the race....; remember Michael's comments last year, about how it felt DRS made his car go slower at some races; it sounds totally ridiculous, I agree, but what is more ridiculous is how almost every race, something fails on Michael's car


Yeah. Jock Clear never got over Jerez 97. Can't possibly be any other explanation :rolleyes:

What happened to you make your own luck when Schumacher was winning race after race, while his team mate was being left on stands sitting on the grid? On left in the pits with 3 wheels? Or out of fuel again...

If we want to hold to the theory that teams sabotage their own car, then there are some serious questions hovering over Ferrari during the Micheal years.

#18795 Zauba

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:48

Tyres may have always been a part of the word... but not THE WORD.

Something is wrong when it's no longer about ever finding the limit in raw pace during any part of the race, but instead it's about tippy toeing to prevent the tyres falling off drastically before those of another competitor.

I don't see what the issue is in seeing this basic point.

BTW, no one is saying that tyre management wasn't always an issue. It's a matter of degree here. It's now way too much of an issue. It's taking away from the opportunity to witness outright racing on the limit. How many drivers span off or ran wide because they were on the limit today. It's actually very telling.

+1

At least the next 2 tracks will suit Schumi's driving much better than the last 2 dull tracks.

#18796 Craven Morehead

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:50

Something is wrong when it's no longer about ever finding the limit in raw pace during any part of the race, but instead it's about tippy toeing to prevent the tyres falling off drastically before those of another competitor.

I don't see what the issue is in seeing this basic point.

BTW, no one is saying that tyre management wasn't always an issue. It's a matter of degree here. It's now way too much of an issue. It's taking away from the opportunity to witness outright racing on the limit.


There's a lot of truth contained in these comments. Taking care of the tires is all well & good, but it's a bit ott this year methinks.

#18797 sharo

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:20

New to F1 ? Isnt Tire ALWAYS the word in F1 ?

Even Micheal championship in 2005 was saved by the late season change to tire rules that gave the advantage back to Ferrari / Bridgestone from Williams / Michelin?

Michael didn't win in 2005. In fact it was one of his worst years. Due to tyres again.

The very fact that I don't remember any driver recently breaking a wing against a barrier speaks a lot about driving well below their and their cars' limits.

#18798 Goron3

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:58

New to F1 ? Isnt Tire ALWAYS the word in F1 ?

Even Micheal championship in 2005 was saved by the late season change to tire rules that gave the advantage back to Ferrari / Bridgestone from Williams / Michelin?


What the hell does michael's 2005 campaign have anything to do with changes to tyres? The title was contested by Renault and Mclaren, both using MICHELIN tyres. If you're referring to Indianapolis, that was Michelins problem, it had nothing to do with a rule change.

#18799 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:01

What the hell does michael's 2005 campaign have anything to do with changes to tyres? The title was contested by Renault and Mclaren, both using MICHELIN tyres. If you're referring to Indianapolis, that was Michelins problem, it had nothing to do with a rule change.

I think he means 2003
btw, as I remember Michelin said in 2003 they didn't change anything on their tyres after the scandal

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#18800 moorsey

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:14

I have never been a MS supporter but I warmed to hime during the pre-race presentations this year and I feel he is absolutely spot on with his moans about tyres. I waznt to see on-the-edge, balls out racing and not the current 90% driving in order to conserve tyres. It may make the race seem exciting to the occasional F1 watcher but it is "driving" and not "racing" as far as I'm concerned. I now just wait for the results rather than watch the entire race as it is far too false now.