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#18801 Sakae

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:20

Yeah. Jock Clear never got over Jerez 97. Can't possibly be any other explanation :rolleyes:

What happened to you make your own luck when Schumacher was winning race after race, while his team mate was being left on stands sitting on the grid? On left in the pits with 3 wheels? Or out of fuel again...

If we want to hold to the theory that teams sabotage their own car, then there are some serious questions hovering over Ferrari during the Micheal years.

I do not agree with concept of sabotage, that's seems rather OTT and despite that it makes no sense, we cannot forget certain Mr. S. at Ferrari and strange white substance in his pockets. Unbelievable things do happen.

I have always questioned whether it is a good idea to get Schumacher and Clear together because of the past. Clear might be performing well for Schumacher these days, but is he really committed to his full extend and beyond, as some other man, hungry for victory would? Perhaps that small margin of extra is missing to complement demanding Schumacher. I hope Ross has left no stone upturned, even if this is a hidden, hard to detect attribute, and you can discover it only through rotation of men. Recent events definitely are ripe for a deep dig into heart of the problem, despite that it was increasingly apparent already last year, that not all is well. Weird strategies, delays, and every downfall went down to car and the concept of the "old man", thus it was difficult to submit a rational case that his team is not up to snuff, but I think smoke has cleared this year, and not everything could be put to Schumacher's doorstep anymore.

Edited by Sakae, 23 April 2012 - 11:55.


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#18802 spacekid

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:20

Guys I really do think we are best off not trying to claim any sort of conspiracy or sabotage. Everyone involved at Merc is professional and hard working. I also think Jock Clear has been good for Michael.

He has had some bad luck, yes, but thats life. Sometimes the odds just fall against you. McLaren have also been having their problems, maybe there is something systemic that can be looked at in both cases, but I refuse to believe these teams are spending $10's millions just to have someone bugger it up on purpose.

I am far, far more concerned by his comments about the tires. It isn't just Schumi that has raised this point, the commentators were banging on about drivers not pushing from lap 2 yesterday, that just isn't F1. I'm glad Schumi has spoken out and I hope we get to see these guys going flat out again soon. Watching a driver plod around to match a computer simulation doesn't do it for me.

#18803 ivand911

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:38

One thing that worries me are the guys who work on the simulator. I mean Bird and Davidson. I understand they work mainly in the simulator. So, this is the guys who determine the race setups. I am not comfortable with that. I am not sure they find the best setup. MS and Nico are not doing much in the simulator? l would be happy if they were doing this work too. I mean finding the best setup for the next race.

#18804 Paa

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:45

I think Nico is using the sim on a regular basis, however Michael not so much because his brain/nervous system wouldn't tolerate that.

#18805 schubacca

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:56

I think that this year MS is driving just fine.

The car is simply not up to snuff....

I agree with the tyres being an utter joke.

I am all for close racing......... just not ARTIFICIALLY close racing. Unfortunately, this is what DRS, Pirelli tyres are all about.

Next up for F1...... Competition Yellow Flags

#18806 jav

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 14:13

I don't think it's the car and have mixed feelings about the tires. The good news is that it has improved the show. Car's are much closer together BUT it seems less about racing and more about conservation.

I can't think of a good reason why a new set of tires should only be good for 1-2 good laps. I'm fine with having a high wear rate but performance should remain relatively consistent for the life of the tire... say 10 laps. If you push them, the cliff comes at 8 laps, and if you nurse them you can get 12.

But when degredation is such that if you squeeze out 1 great lap- the tire is now is now so far below par that getting that one great lap is negated by all the others- sucks. It's almost like they engineered the tire as a timer... drive it anyway you like but it will only function if you take X amount of time to cover Y distance. Otherwise- it turns to mush and regardless of how good you car is- you'll be going backwards ALA Kimi last week.

#18807 schubacca

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 17:14

Next up:

Pirelli introduces a tyre that is good for only 2 of the 3 sectors in 1 lap..... This will make for close qualifying because if you cane it earlier on the lap, you will suffer in sector 3.

:)

#18808 Sakae

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 17:19

I don't think it's the car and have mixed feelings about the tires. The good news is that it has improved the show. Car's are much closer together BUT it seems less about racing and more about conservation.

I don't remember me wanting to get out of the bed two in the morning to see car close together and be awarded with less racing.


#18809 Tardis40

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:09

Pirelli gets all touchy when anything is said about its garbage rubber that contains even a whiff of criticism. Instead of getting all huffy and engaging in schoolboy rhetoric, perhaps they should shut up and listen and then maybe try to make some needed improvements.


#18810 Afterburner

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:21

Pirelli gets all touchy when anything is said about its garbage rubber that contains even a whiff of criticism. Instead of getting all huffy and engaging in schoolboy rhetoric, perhaps they should shut up and listen and then maybe try to make some needed improvements.

I suppose I'm the only one in the thread who thinks Schumacher just needs to get on with the programme? Nonsense rules didn't hold him back before, and they won't now. It's one bad race, we've got 16 to go--plenty of Schumacher's better tracks are coming up later this year as well. We're all complaining now, but if he wins or podiums in Spain this will become a relatively small issue, I'm sure. :p

#18811 Sakae

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:31

I suppose I'm the only one in the thread who thinks Schumacher just needs to get on with the programme? Nonsense rules didn't hold him back before, and they won't now. It's one bad race, we've got 16 to go--plenty of Schumacher's better tracks are coming up later this year as well. We're all complaining now, but if he wins or podiums in Spain this will become a relatively small issue, I'm sure. :p

Is everybody else but Schumacher happy with the situation? I think that he is not alone in his view, and taking his considerable experience with hard-line racing, I am willing to listen what he says (especially when its music to my ears). :)

#18812 Neophiliac

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:32

+1

At least the next 2 tracks will suit Schumi's driving much better than the last 2 dull tracks.


Exactly...

Wait. What?! That's Barca and Monaco we're talking about as being "fun", right? I mean, I love Monaco as much as the next guy, but that's mostly for the armco walls, the scenery and the shots of F1 cars over that chicane. Otherwise, it ain't exactly conducive to 3-abreast stuff even when it's wet. And Barcelona can really only "fun" with these Pirellis.


#18813 jav

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:46

I don't remember me wanting to get out of the bed two in the morning to see car close together and be awarded with less racing.


I disagree. Last season I didn't bother getting up early and could predict, Vettel on Pole, Vettel leads, Vettel wins. Before DRS, racers often went around in percesional order seperated by great distances (often longer than the pit stop interval).

This year, I can honestly say I've gotten up early not knowing who was going to win and knowing it could be anyone of half the entries. I know this has been artificial, but excitment of tight races and the different winners seems to more interesting than outright domination and follow the leader.

BTW- I agree with MSC, tires should not trump all other aspects of racing. It should be about racing, not just tire conservation.

Edited by jav, 23 April 2012 - 18:49.


#18814 jbarokF1

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:54

When other teams were protesting about their innovative DDRS, they said that other teams just need to copy or incorporate it (if they can and understand how it works) into their cars. So Michael, why don't you just tell your designers/engineers to design a car that will be more gentle with the Pirellis so you can make the most out of them.

I wonder if you will complain about Pirelli tyres if you are winning. Obviously, you will not am sure.

#18815 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 18:59

When other teams were protesting about their innovative DDRS, they said that other teams just need to copy or incorporate it (if they can and understand how it works) into their cars. So Michael, why don't you just tell your designers/engineers to design a car that will be more gentle with the Pirellis so you can make the most out of them.

I wonder if you will complain about Pirelli tyres if you are winning. Obviously, you will not am sure.


Nico after China : I "was never able to go flat out" in order to manage his tyres properly

What more do you want?

P.S. Michael handles these tires pretty well. That's not the point or the problem.

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 April 2012 - 19:00.


#18816 Afterburner

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 19:00

When other teams were protesting about their innovative DDRS, they said that other teams just need to copy or incorporate it (if they can and understand how it works) into their cars. So Michael, why don't you just tell your designers/engineers to design a car that will be more gentle with the Pirellis so you can make the most out of them.

I wonder if you will complain about Pirelli tyres if you are winning. Obviously, you will not am sure.

I can't remember the last time Schumacher openly criticised the team he was racing for--I don't think he's really one to do that.

Having said that, I'm quite certain someone will conveniently pop up with recent evidence to the contrary within a few minutes. :p

#18817 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 19:04

Posts deleted, others edited.

We received no reports of trolling or personal attacks from this thread over the weekend and yet here they are. Please use the report function. Do not use the report function and then reply anyway or you're just part of the downward spiral.

This thread is about Michael Schumacher. It is not about the W03, nor the rivalry with his teammate. It is also not about Pirelli tyres. I suggest that the comments about the tyres are best discussed in a thread for that purpose where comments from other drivers can be included and compared without going off topic.

#18818 Buttoneer

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 20:30

A number of off-topic posts have been deleted. Please do not ignore me.

#18819 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:38

Again, posts deleted.

The rules of the forum are in my signature. If you have an issue with them, please pm me. Do not comment in the forum.

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#18820 Sakae

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 13:08

I disagree. Last season I didn't bother getting up early and could predict, Vettel on Pole, Vettel leads, Vettel wins. Before DRS, racers often went around in percesional order seperated by great distances (often longer than the pit stop interval).

This year, I can honestly say I've gotten up early not knowing who was going to win and knowing it could be anyone of half the entries. I know this has been artificial, but excitment of tight races and the different winners seems to more interesting than outright domination and follow the leader.

BTW- I agree with MSC, tires should not trump all other aspects of racing. It should be about racing, not just tire conservation.

I do not really care about turnovers at the lead for sake of seeing different faces at the front every time I come back from the fridge. I do care however in every race to see the best on the top, and by the definition of being best, inevitably it will end up to be the same face. Schumacher 's point is that we do not have tight races (you like) as results of driver skills, but due to hard to control variability in tire performance, and that's the crux of the problem.

#18821 jav

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 17:32

...I do care however in every race to see the best on the top, and by the definition of being best, inevitably it will end up to be the same face. Schumacher 's point is that we do not have tight races (you like) as results of driver skills, but due to hard to control variability in tire performance, and that's the crux of the problem.


I get what your saying but think your view misses the mark. The "best" (as you put it)- can mean many things. This year, "the Best" is being determined to a greater extent by tire management than it has in the past AND not only as controlled by the driver.

Who ever wins in these circumstances IS the "best" on that day. Sure - like Micheal, I wish the tires weren't such a big peice of the performance puzzle but they are and it's the same for everyone. Your either successful (as a team and driver) in dealing with it or you're not. Yes- tight races aren't the result of driver skill alone, but neither has winning ever been. I do agree the drivers contribution has been diminished some by setup, strategy and the tires narrow operating window but its' still there.

I think it's short sighted to say the best will inevitably be the same face. I don't believe for one second that if the tires were to be all that Micheal wanted- he'd all the sudden be dominating. Who ever best masters the circumstances of a certain situation should win on merit. If it were always the same face, it would become boring and is unrealistic. Otherwise, in every sport there would be one person or one team that won all the time because they're "the best".

The excitement I hear all this buzz about comes from not knowing who will win today. Everyone has a chance... who will do it today? In that sense, the tires have helped IMHO.

Edited by jav, 24 April 2012 - 17:53.


#18822 puxanando

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:11

:cat: a lot of discussion Schumi speaking bad of Pirelli.....why don't they make some rubbers that are how he would like!?

#18823 jbarokF1

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:31

:cat: a lot of discussion Schumi speaking bad of Pirelli.....why don't they make some rubbers that are how he would like!?


:up: :up: :up:

MS and his fans has forgotten Indianapolis (US) Grand Prix (2005 or 2006? can't remember) where all Michelin cars refused to race due to safety reason and were demanding to put a chicane on the last turn banking. But Schumi knowing that he's got the advantage there and that his Michelin rivals cannot afford to drive up to their limit on that banking refused to join the Michelin driver to put a chicane.

And now he's complaining because he cannot push to the limit due to his tyre???????

#18824 schubacca

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:39

:up: :up: :up:

MS and his fans has forgotten Indianapolis (US) Grand Prix (2005 or 2006? can't remember) where all Michelin cars refused to race due to safety reason and were demanding to put a chicane on the last turn banking. But Schumi knowing that he's got the advantage there and that his Michelin rivals cannot afford to drive up to their limit on that banking refused to join the Michelin driver to put a chicane.

And now he's complaining because he cannot push to the limit due to his tyre???????


No dude....


He is saying that NO driver can drive on the limit and expect those POS tyres to last a decent amount of time.

LH, JB, NR, and many others are echoing this feeling.



#18825 jbarokF1

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:39

Michael...some drivers are driving backmarker cars and cannot push to their limit because they are limited to what their cars can allow them to. But they are not complaining because they know they don't have as much money as your team to develop a faster car.

And now you are complaining because Pirellis are not allowing you to push to the limit?

#18826 jbarokF1

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:43

No dude....


He is saying that NO driver can drive on the limit and expect those POS tyres to last a decent amount of time.

LH, JB, NR, and many others are echoing this feeling.


It's the same for everybody so what is the problem..It does not favour anyone, does it?

It's the same thing as having a slow car where it does not enable you to push to the limit.




#18827 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:52

Michael...some drivers are driving backmarker cars and cannot push to their limit because they are limited to what their cars can allow them to. But they are not complaining because they know they don't have as much money as your team to develop a faster car.

And now you are complaining because Pirellis are not allowing you to push to the limit?


Not just HIM, Alonso, Button, Hamilton etc have ALL complained.

When you cannot push your car OR chase a leading car because your tyres will degrade so quickly, that is an artifical situation and not motor racing. It is a farce.

#18828 jbarokF1

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 21:59

Not just HIM, Alonso, Button, Hamilton etc have ALL complained.

When you cannot push your car OR chase a leading car because your tyres will degrade so quickly, that is an artifical situation and not motor racing. It is a farce.


Isn't it artificial when Schumi's teammates have to move aside to let him win? He was not complaining then..and now he's complaining about racing being artificial because of the tyres.

#18829 Sakae

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 23:25

:up: :up: :up:

MS and his fans has forgotten Indianapolis (US) Grand Prix (2005 or 2006? can't remember) where all Michelin cars refused to race due to safety reason and were demanding to put a chicane on the last turn banking. But Schumi knowing that he's got the advantage there and that his Michelin rivals cannot afford to drive up to their limit on that banking refused to join the Michelin driver to put a chicane.

And now he's complaining because he cannot push to the limit due to his tyre???????

This is patently not only false, but also gross misrepresentation of events of that racing weekend. Within context of concern Michelin had, and nonsence about safety of T13, it was not Schumacher who was deciding what will be done, when, by whom and if at all. I am suprised that you get away with this in here.

Edited by Sakae, 24 April 2012 - 23:56.


#18830 ali_M

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 02:53

It's the same for everybody so what is the problem..It does not favour anyone, does it?

It's the same thing as having a slow car where it does not enable you to push to the limit.


The next time we wish to have a regulation changed because there's a problem with it, we'll leave it as such because there's no problem. Afterall, it's the same regulation for all teams to follow.

A driver taking a slow car to the limit of his and the car's/tyre's performance is one thing. However, driving a slow car below the limit of mechanical grip and driver performance because of concern for tyre wear is entirely different. Why is it so difficult to see this distinct difference??? This is all Michael is referring to. The Pirelli's hold him back way too much. It's artificial.... he cannot attack as he normally would or wish to.

Oops!! I know .... it's the same for everybody so what's the problem?

Edited by ali_M, 25 April 2012 - 02:54.


#18831 Pamphlet

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:01

Brundle's made it clear that Schuey's not the only one that is very unhappy with the tyre.

#18832 MightyMoose

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:49

Isn't it artificial when Schumi's teammates have to move aside to let him win? He was not complaining then..and now he's complaining about racing being artificial because of the tyres.

As you wish to push this button, lets play your game for just a minute.

How many times was Schumacher handed a win - a win, not a place, a win (Your choice of word, not mine). I can only think of 1, the infamous Austrian GP in 2002.

Now how many did Schumacher hand to his team-mates, immediately I know of 2. Malaysia 1999, Indy 2002. We can also argue a couple of others if you choose.

Furthermore, how many races was Eddie Irvine gifted in 1999? That's right 2. 50% of Irvine's F1 career wins were gifts by his team-mates!

Now you can talk about team orders all you like, you can moan about spec tyres, or favored treatment but you can't sit there and make an ill-judged, inaccurate post and expect a round of applause.

Oh, and I echo the previous poster in regard to your diatribe on Indy 2005. You clearly do not know the full, accurate story behind that race, I suggest you go & read up not only on that race, but that season to gain a proper perspective on the events.

#18833 Raelene

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 04:52

It's the same for everybody so what is the problem..It does not favour anyone, does it?

It's the same thing as having a slow car where it does not enable you to push to the limit.


MSC himself has said it's the same for everyone

you didn't get his point...his point was not driving a car as fast as one can...isn't what he and many others "sign up" for when they become racing drivers...

and your anaology does not work - a slow car can still be pushed to the limits.... it's limits

Edited by Raelene, 25 April 2012 - 04:53.


#18834 jjpm

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:37

MS is right but who's granny is it?
Brundle : ..."On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are."...

http://www1.skysport...ions-On-Bahrain

Edited by jjpm, 25 April 2012 - 06:38.


#18835 ivand911

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:44

MS is right but who's granny is it?
Brundle : ..."On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are."...

http://www1.skysport...ions-On-Bahrain

Then there is chance for me in F1, if his granny(whoever he is) can drive the car. :clap: Finally. Index finger is taken ,so my victory sign will be the middle finger.

Edited by ivand911, 25 April 2012 - 06:46.


#18836 spacekid

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:29

:up: :up: :up:

MS and his fans has forgotten Indianapolis (US) Grand Prix (2005 or 2006? can't remember) where all Michelin cars refused to race due to safety reason and were demanding to put a chicane on the last turn banking. But Schumi knowing that he's got the advantage there and that his Michelin rivals cannot afford to drive up to their limit on that banking refused to join the Michelin driver to put a chicane.

And now he's complaining because he cannot push to the limit due to his tyre???????


What utter garbage.

#18837 spacekid

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:30

MS is right but who's granny is it?
Brundle : ..."On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are."...

http://www1.skysport...ions-On-Bahrain


I'd put money on that being Mark Webber. I hope more drivers like Mark raise their voice if the drivers aren't able to push at Barcelona.

#18838 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:33

Isn't it artificial when Schumi's teammates have to move aside to let him win? He was not complaining then..and now he's complaining about racing being artificial because of the tyres.


Are you still crying about Austria 2002?

See Indianapolis 2002.....



You become defacto #1 for a reason; Schumacher worked harder than all his team mates, did more testing (see winter 2005/2006 for instance), spent more time away from his family and built up a better rapport with his team and engineers. You think it was just written into the contract? He whooped ass in career #1 and got the team behind him for that reason. Irvine was too busy screwing models and Barrichello broke down mentally. They were not leaders.

#18839 Goron3

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:49

jbarokF1, can you please stop posting rubbish onto this thread? Fair enough you're anti schumacher but don't let it seep through into your posts, they make no sense whatsoever. If you can't understand the issue that the drivers are referring to as well as being able to discuss it rationally, don't bother posting.

Anyway, Schumacher is having such rotten luck so far this season :( It reminds me of 2000 when he had three retirements in a row and Mika started clawing points back to him!

Edited by Goron3, 25 April 2012 - 11:52.


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#18840 George Costanza

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 02:10

jbarokF1, can you please stop posting rubbish onto this thread? Fair enough you're anti schumacher but don't let it seep through into your posts, they make no sense whatsoever. If you can't understand the issue that the drivers are referring to as well as being able to discuss it rationally, don't bother posting.

Anyway, Schumacher is having such rotten luck so far this season :( It reminds me of 2000 when he had three retirements in a row and Mika started clawing points back to him!



Yes, it does remind me of 2000 as well, but the Mercedes simply is not on the level of the Ferrari of 2000 or Schu himself isn't that level anymore.

2000 Schumacher was, perhaps, the very best.

#18841 CoolBreeze

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:08

:up: :up: :up:

MS and his fans has forgotten Indianapolis (US) Grand Prix (2005 or 2006? can't remember) where all Michelin cars refused to race due to safety reason and were demanding to put a chicane on the last turn banking. But Schumi knowing that he's got the advantage there and that his Michelin rivals cannot afford to drive up to their limit on that banking refused to join the Michelin driver to put a chicane.

And now he's complaining because he cannot push to the limit due to his tyre???????


What the heck does that got to do with him complaining he can't push 100% in Bahrain?

It was Michelin's fault in 2005 that their tyres weren't just safe enough. It wasn't MS's fault. Period.

#18842 pUs

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:11

It's the same for everybody so what is the problem..It does not favour anyone, does it?

It's the same thing as having a slow car where it does not enable you to push to the limit.


Yes, it's the same for everyone - which, unfortunately, means that nobody can push to the limit at any time in the race. That's part of the problem, but even more so the fact that the tires have a too slim operating window. Just because it's the same for everybody doesn't mean it's good.

Edited by pUs, 26 April 2012 - 08:11.


#18843 CoolBreeze

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:12

Isn't it artificial when Schumi's teammates have to move aside to let him win? He was not complaining then..and now he's complaining about racing being artificial because of the tyres.



ermmm.... I can't remember when MS actually had a teammate faster than him, so fast that he asked the team to tell that teammate to move aside so he can inherit the win.

Please do enlighten me on this one.

I think pretty much everyone disagree with your comments.

Edited by CoolBreeze, 26 April 2012 - 08:12.


#18844 black magic

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:26

when a 43 yr old is complaining that he's only using 60 - 70% of his physical capacity to drive supposedly the fsatest of all racing cars then only those who choose not cannot see there is a major problem.

any **** would also recognise the lottery these tyres are throwing up is clearly artificial. one week vettel struggles tio be top ten next he drives away. lotus 4th team to next race arguably the top team.

its not as if one team is frankly demonstrating it has any more clues than another at the moment.

whilst tyre management always an issue, these seem to stop working so suddenly that making a mockery of any form.

is it good to have multiple winners - sure - but not by this means.



#18845 pUs

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:32

when a 43 yr old is complaining that he's only using 60 - 70% of his physical capacity to drive supposedly the fsatest of all racing cars then only those who choose not cannot see there is a major problem.

any **** would also recognise the lottery these tyres are throwing up is clearly artificial. one week vettel struggles tio be top ten next he drives away. lotus 4th team to next race arguably the top team.

its not as if one team is frankly demonstrating it has any more clues than another at the moment.

whilst tyre management always an issue, these seem to stop working so suddenly that making a mockery of any form.

is it good to have multiple winners - sure - but not by this means.


Totally agree :up:

#18846 skid solo

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:09

Isn't it artificial when Schumi's teammates have to move aside to let him win? He was not complaining then..and now he's complaining about racing being artificial because of the tyres.


You're missing the point completely either because you wish to be deliberately obtuse or because you don't understand it

#18847 skid solo

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:13

when a 43 yr old is complaining that he's only using 60 - 70% of his physical capacity to drive supposedly the fsatest of all racing cars then only those who choose not cannot see there is a major problem.

any **** would also recognise the lottery these tyres are throwing up is clearly artificial. one week vettel struggles tio be top ten next he drives away. lotus 4th team to next race arguably the top team.

its not as if one team is frankly demonstrating it has any more clues than another at the moment.

whilst tyre management always an issue, these seem to stop working so suddenly that making a mockery of any form.

is it good to have multiple winners - sure - but not by this means.


Yes why bother going to the Gym and doing all that training?
Why bother investing millions in having a chief designer such as Newey?
Why bother having a top drawer driver?

If a Sauber can outpace a Mclaren driven by Hamilton and hustle a Ferrari driven by Alonso then something is up and it hasn't got anything to do with Lewis, Fernando, Ferrari or Mclaren

#18848 schubacca

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 13:52

I think that those that have watched F1 for ages and understand the beauty that driving on the limit represents would tend to agree with MS.

F1 has become lazy driving. Indycar and NASCAR drivers, among others, state how there are portions of a race in which they are not on the limit.

The beauty of a driver like MS delivering 15 qualifying laps in a race is gone now.

So we wont see a FA, SV, LH, or JB pull off a sequence like that. Instead we will hear engineers tell their charges to conserve their tyres or suffer a fate of Kimi Raikonen in China.

And we ALL know how Kimi is over the hill and cannot handle a F1 car!!! ;)

#18849 654321

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 14:40

Omg,so many haters on here,with so little brain

here is my 2cents: True ,2012 Pirelli tyres have been the reason racing's been exciting thus far,but its only due to the confusion and chaos this redicilously inconsistent tyre delivers.

P.Humphrey is going around drumming his chest and being proud but the bottom line is ,Pirreli have made a tyre that doesnt produce great racing,just simply chaos....a massively unstable tyre that degrades like something cheap they sell at Wal-Mart....i dont see whats so incredible about it,if even the engeniers cant figure out how to control it(after 4races)! Michael is not only spot on,he is his brilliant self as usual,speaking when he has to,critisizing when he must to

watch,learn and stfu if u aint got a clue


edit: Teams are getting all messed up and confused trying to understand this tyre,but the fact is ,there is nothing to understand: 2012 Pirrelis have been made to be garbage!!!Instead of worrying about performance,Teams just need to treat like a garbage tyre!. Dont Qualify,safe all tyres for the race and then beat the crap out of every single set u got and have 10pitstops and it is possible you wont be too far back from the ones that Q'ed and tried to protect them

If MSC can start in 22nd and finish in 10th only 15sec off his teammate who started in 5th,just goes to show the kinda of a laugh this tyres are,

Edited by 654321, 26 April 2012 - 15:10.


#18850 zelpre

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 11:29

Michael was at the DTM Race yesterday, at Hockenheim. Was entertaining the crowd before the race, with driving the W02 and doing some burnouts.
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