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#18951 libano

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:56

Although I agree with the work ethic, schumacher's mentality to racing was not all positive.

To their credit many of MSC's opponents didn't cheat, use bully tactics or demand special treatment, hence they were left behind. A cheating Senna and Williams team would have left Benetton in the dust. Williams didn't even appeal the foul tactics he used at the end of 1994 (something that would instantly be investigated today) with respect to the two dead drivers that season.
Even the father of his own team mate called him a cheat.

Schumacher also owes 2 of his titles to special tyres that no other team were allowed information on, let alone have access to. To the contrary, Senna always wanted to test himself without anything untoward.

His complaining about the latest tyres just about sums up his petulant character and career.



seriously? are we back to that level of discussion? :drunk:

one 10 second post race soundbyte on german tv gets blown way out of proportion. apart from the fact that your post is just brimming with heresay and assumptions...how sour can those grapes be, 18 years later?

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#18952 LiJu914

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:04

I´m more amused by the fact that he used, of all people, Senna as a counter-example of opponents, who didn´t cheat or use bully tactics.

Edited by LiJu914, 03 May 2012 - 10:05.


#18953 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:06

seriously? are we back to that level of discussion? :drunk:

one 10 second post race soundbyte on german tv gets blown way out of proportion. apart from the fact that your post is just brimming with heresay and assumptions...how sour can those grapes be, 18 years later?


What have I assumed?
He is a proven cheat. His own team mate's father called him a "cheap cheat"

Sour grapes? I admire his work ethic and I'm not a fan of any particular driver. The only sourness here, as a paying spectator of the sport, is perhaps being denied the chance to see him race a team mate on equal footing during those years he had the vastly superior car. The kind of racing we see saw between Alonso and Hamilton, Prost and Senna, Mansell Piquet, Hamilton and Button.

It's always the same reaction from schumacher fans, aparantly everyone else is either jealous or sour. I've got news for you, some of us don't ride our egos on another driver's back.




#18954 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:08

I´m more amused by the fact that he used, of all people, Senna as a counter-example of opponents, who didn´t cheat or use bully tactics.


Whilst reading Prost's book, Alain didnt seem too amused at their conversation regarding Benetton's cheating.
You could of course remind me where Senna has been found guilty of breaking rules instead of making this a personal attack. Schumacher thought he was above the rules. Schumacher broke rules that are the first to be taught to 8 year olds in Karting.

Edited by Mr2s, 03 May 2012 - 10:10.


#18955 morash

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:21

Although I agree with the work ethic, schumacher's mentality to racing was not all positive.

To their credit many of MSC's opponents didn't cheat, use bully tactics or demand special treatment, hence they were left behind. A cheating Senna and Williams team would have left Benetton in the dust. Williams didn't even appeal the foul tactics he used at the end of 1994 (something that would instantly be investigated today) with respect to the two dead drivers that season.
Even the father of his own team mate called him a cheat.

Schumacher also owes 2 of his titles to special tyres that no other team were allowed information on, let alone have access to. To the contrary, Senna always wanted to test himself without anything untoward.

His complaining about the latest tyres just about sums up his petulant character and career.


I think you are missing the point here. His work ethic and dedication forced other drivers to get to his level. I suppose he was bound to get special treatment from everyone who saw that he was a better bet than others in delivering results.

I have not seen MSC complain much at all through out his career. Which is the reason there is a whole lot of debate going on about his comments about tyres. He seldom complains and therefore his "observations" evoke so much discussion. Of course I have not seen him act in a petulant manner ever either on a race track or off it so I am not sure how you concluded that.

#18956 LiJu914

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:26

Whilst reading Prost's book, Alain didnt seem too amused at their conversation regarding Benetton's cheating.
You could of course remind me where Senna has been found guilty of breaking rules instead of making this a personal attack. Schumacher thought he was above the rules. Schumacher broke rules that are the first to be taught to 8 year olds in Karting.


I won´t make this thread into another little Senna/Schumacher-session. But again funny that you use the term "found guilty" in regards to one person, but ignore that in regards to another person as you used an example of alleged cheating, in which this person wasn´t even found guilty. Goodbye hypocrite.



#18957 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:26

I love how idiotic the discussion about the Bridgestone tires and Michael/Ferrari is.How easy people choose to forget that there was a tire war going on and also about 2005.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 10:27.


#18958 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:32

I think you are missing the point here. His work ethic and dedication forced other drivers to get to his level. I suppose he was bound to get special treatment from everyone who saw that he was a better bet than others in delivering results.

I have not seen MSC complain much at all through out his career. Which is the reason there is a whole lot of debate going on about his comments about tyres. He seldom complains and therefore his "observations" evoke so much discussion. Of course I have not seen him act in a petulant manner ever either on a race track or off it so I am not sure how you concluded that.


You don't consider turning into other drivers many times because he can't take being beaten, petulant? Blocking the track at Monaco? Snubbing Hill on the podium? making disrespectfull comments/jokes about Hill infront of him during press conference? Throwing his crash helmet agaisnt his gargae wall?

He seldomed complained in public because he often had an unfair or illegal advantage.

#18959 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:42

I love how idiotic the discussion about the Bridgestone tires and Michael/Ferrari is.How easy people choose to forget that there was a tire war going on and also about 2005.


There may have been a tyre war going on, but Michael/Ferrari received unprecedented help from the supplier contracted to supply many teams.
Ironically Bridgestone ended up losing the war because of isolating their 'partners' who jumped ship to Michelin.

from Gary Anderson

"He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access.
Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier."

Edited by Mr2s, 03 May 2012 - 10:42.


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#18960 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:49

I won´t make this thread into another little Senna/Schumacher-session. But again funny that you use the term "found guilty" in regards to one person, but ignore that in regards to another person as you used an example of alleged cheating, in which this person wasn´t even found guilty. Goodbye hypocrite.


Benetton were found guilty of using an illegal fuel rig, developing traction control, shaving the plank down.

Senna was right all along. Hypocrisy doesnt come into it.

I guess your're one of those fanboys who make up stories to protect your hero, stories that actually differ from his own version of events. Then go on to protect your own ego by filtering :rotfl:


" It was the worst thing I have seen in Formula One. I thought he had grown up. He is a cheap cheat. He should leave F 1 to honest people."
Keke Rosberg

Edited by Mr2s, 03 May 2012 - 10:51.


#18961 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:50

Ironically Bridgestone ended up losing the war because of isolating their 'partners' who jumped ship to Michelin.


So you are finally getting it? Or not?

Risk/reward kind of thing.

P.S. Btw they didn't lose.
P.P.S. No traction control on Benetton.

Honest people in F1? Rofl. How great the sour grapes are.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 10:53.


#18962 libano

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:53

You don't consider turning into other drivers many times because he can't take being beaten, petulant? Blocking the track at Monaco? Snubbing Hill on the podium? making disrespectfull comments/jokes about Hill infront of him during press conference? Throwing his crash helmet agaisnt his gargae wall?

He seldomed complained in public because he often had an unfair or illegal advantage.


sounds like sour grapes to me.

btw, this has been discussed to death and beyond, probably the main reason why this thread counts 474 pages. people have had enough time to form their opinion and are extremely unlikely to change them now that so much water has passed under the bridge. you're either preaching to the choir or talking to the hand.

#18963 D.M.N.

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:55

Enough of the Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher arguments which have been had time and time again.

#18964 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:55

You edited your post and STILL didn't pick up on this?

You're so pre-occupied with your anti-Schumi rant and his woeful his opposition was that you failed to notice something wrong with your timeline.

Toodles :wave:



To be fair, in recent years, everyman and his dog states that this is the most talented grid seen in F1. Now that Kimi has made an immediate impact after a lay off, the schummi worshippers only have one excuse left.


#18965 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:58

sounds like sour grapes to me.

btw, this has been discussed to death and beyond, probably the main reason why this thread counts 474 pages. people have had enough time to form their opinion and are extremely unlikely to change them now that so much water has passed under the bridge. you're either preaching to the choir or talking to the hand.


He shouldnt be complaining about the tyres in the present season, schumacher is the hypocrite. I dont really give a stuff about the stuff that you've cheery picked from my posts.

"He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access.
Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier"

Gary Anderson

#18966 Sakae

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:58

...Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier."

You are quoting Anderson as a gospel, telling us that Schumacher is cheating since he was eight years old, and now this.

I do not know what happened some thirty five years in Kerpen when he was a small boy, but maybe you do, and it is important to you to bring it up. What I know however is, that tire brought to first four races was anything but standard, and this is not my own opinion alone. Perhaps Anderson is wrong, and consequently you as well to simply repeat it ad nauseum in here.

Assuming that you have taken time and read actually what Schumacher said in essence, paraphrasing, that tire could have different characteristics to support better racing. I am not sure why thoughts of that kind would bring in you such venum of hate, but it say a lot about you as well; more than about him.

#18967 libano

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:01

To be fair, in recent years, everyman and his dog states that this is the most talented grid seen in F1. Now that Kimi has made an immediate impact after a lay off, the schummi worshippers only have one excuse left.


what's that? 7 world titles? yeah, i know, lame. everybody's opinion on the current grid's talent level surely trumps that. :drunk:

#18968 sharo

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:02

Please, don't feed the next new troll. He will soon come to the arguments in my signature. Nothing new.

#18969 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:05

So you are finally getting it? Or not?

Risk/reward kind of thing.

P.S. Btw they didn't lose.
P.P.S. No traction control on Benetton.

Honest people in F1? Rofl. How great the sour grapes are.


are you talking to yourself mr deluded?

Why were Benetton punished then? 500,000$ kop out of a fine IIRC

I think youll find to have sour grapes, I would have needed to be a supporter of a particular team or driver. Let alone like many here who have clearly invested their own egos into michael schumacher over the years. Many of you make up excuses to protect him, that differ from his own version of events lol.
I'm a neutral spectator who hates seeing drivers block tracks to stop another setting his qualifying time and go on to be a hypocrite regarding todays tyres.

P.S Bridgestone eventually lost their huge advantage and Michelin won 2005 and 2006.

Wrong on 3 accounts lol


#18970 as65p

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:07

Please, don't feed the next new troll. He will soon come to the arguments in my signature. Nothing new.


You'll put Gary Anderson in your signature? :eek:

 ;)

#18971 libano

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:08

Please, don't feed the next new troll. He will soon come to the arguments in my signature. Nothing new.


true, but sometimes it's just too tempting when those armchair experts attempt to rewrite racing history.

#18972 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:10

You are quoting Anderson as a gospel, telling us that Schumacher is cheating since he was eight years old, and now this.

I do not know what happened some thirty five years in Kerpen when he was a small boy, but maybe you do, and it is important to you to bring it up. What I know however is, that tire brought to first four races was anything but standard, and this is not my own opinion alone. Perhaps Anderson is wrong, and consequently you as well to simply repeat it ad nauseum in here.

Assuming that you have taken time and read actually what Schumacher said in essence, paraphrasing, that tire could have different characteristics to support better racing. I am not sure why thoughts of that kind would bring in you such venum of hate, but it say a lot about you as well; more than about him.


The 8 year olds comment was regards to behaving on the parade lap and ignoring Black flags. Something schumacher thought was OK in F1. i.e my comment on him thinking he is above the rules.
Taking me out of context and cherry picking is a pretty poor ploy.
Venom of hate? Ive said Ive respected his work ethic from the off there you go cherry picking again.

Sorry to hurt your ego.

#18973 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:11

true, but sometimes it's just too tempting when those armchair experts attempt to rewrite racing history.


He doesnt even put the full list of petulance in his signiture and you snuggle up to him

How wonderful it must be to have invested your own egos in michael schumacher all those years ago. Beyond any criticism apparantly.



#18974 sharo

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:12

You'll put Gary Anderson in your signature? :eek:

;)

Who was he? :p

#18975 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:14

You'll put Gary Anderson in your signature? :eek:

;)



In the mind of a schumacher worshipper, an F1 engineer's experience of events is just heresay.

Gary Anderson on the 'sad' hypocrite

"He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access.
Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier."

#18976 as65p

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:16

Who was he? :p


The man who designed the first F1 car your man drove, no less. Come to think of it, he probably disliked MS from the go and sabotaged his clutch... :)

#18977 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:18

In the mind of a schumacher worshipper, an F1 engineer's experience of events is just heresay.

Gary Anderson on the 'sad' hypocrite

"He is a professional racing driver, and it's all about looking after your tyres. You do that by getting the right balance on the car.
When I was involved with Bridgestone tyres with Jordan in the early 2000s, in the middle of the tyre war with Michelin, Schumacher and Ferrari had tyres we were not even allowed to look at.
They cost so much money that Bridgestone could not afford to supply them to everyone. And whenever we did have an opportunity to run a derivative of those tyres, our lap times were much, much better.
It's a bit sad that Michael now sees things the other way around, because a lot of his competitiveness in those days was down to the working relationship he and Ferrari had with Bridgestone, one to which nobody else had access.
Now there's a standard tyre, it's down to him and Mercedes to get it working properly, not point the finger at the supplier."

what Gary misses out is that the Michelins on the compettion were at the same freak level of costs and performance

#18978 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:19

are you talking to yourself mr deluded?

Why were Benetton punished then? 500,000$ kop out of a fine IIRC

P.S Bridgestone eventually lost their huge advantage and Michelin won 2005 and 2006.


Wait, when where they punished for traction control? You might find out that there was no traction control software.

Bridgestone lost their advantage but they won the war. So their relation with Ferrari carried advantages but also risks. Hence nothing special in their relationship just a different approach in their war with Michelin.

So, again, i am right in everything i said.


And while what GA says about the Bridgestone might be true it's completely irrelevant. And the problem this year with tires is that their performance is outside the major influence of the driver.

Just to remind everyone : this year Michael started form the front rows in all the times he got into Q3. Talk about understanding tires.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 11:24.


#18979 ali_M

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:20

It's always the same reaction from schumacher fans, aparantly everyone else is either jealous or sour. I've got news for you, some of us don't ride our egos on another driver's back.


See here? But what a piece of petulant arrogance ... :lol:

Winning championships in vastly superior cars? ... as if that's peculiar only to Michael. You say you don't Senna also won in superior machinery and always tried to be in a superior car and have support from his team. Ask Prost. :) I have nothing against Senna for this... what the hell does Prost expect in competition?

Schumacher 'demanding' preferential treatment? ... Oh please!!

Cheating? - M. Schumacher certainly isn't perfect and has indeed lost his head on a few occasions in the heat of competition. This does not take away from what he has achieved. Bully tactics? .... sour grapes and misery. Hakkinen was a man for it.

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#18980 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:25

Please, don't feed the next new troll. He will soon come to the arguments in my signature. Nothing new.

Any time you are out of arguments, you can resort to Adelaide '94, Jerez '97 and Monaco '06.


The irony of having Adelaide '94 in your sig, is that for all the years of posts on forums and before that usenet, I've yet to see one michael schumacher fan actually back michael's version of events. They all make up their own version, to suit the arguments that conclude that he is just a insecure (as conformed by Jean Todt) petulant character. Now turned hypocrite.

#18981 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:26

See here? But what a piece of petulant arrogance ... :lol:

Winning championships in vastly superior cars? ... as if that's peculiar only to Michael. You say you don't Senna also won in superior machinery and always tried to be in a superior car and have support from his team. Ask Prost. :) I have nothing against Senna for this... what the hell does Prost expect in competition?

Schumacher 'demanding' preferential treatment? ... Oh please!!

Cheating? - M. Schumacher certainly isn't perfect and has indeed lost his head on a few occasions in the heat of competition. This does not take away from what he has achieved. Bully tactics? .... sour grapes and misery. Hakkinen was a man for it.


For the love of god I'm not a Senna or Prost fan. :well:

#18982 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:33

Wait, when where they punished for traction control? You might find out that there was no traction control software.


Well duh! , that was the problem, they were fined $100,000 for not handing over their software when requested. They couldn't be caught. The other teams wernt stupid, just as they knew Benetton were cheating to help michael beat senna via pit stops.

#18983 fieraku

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:39

Schumi had more troubles with the(2010) Bridgestones than the Pirellis :wave: But he's a Racer and the only? one with balls, for speaking the truth and trying to save F1 from this "Show" "Entertainment" everyone is trying to sell. It's RACING FFS,petrol,oil,rubber and sweaty bastards doing 200mph.NOT choreographed ballet.


I wanna add that Schu just became my Hero.

#18984 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:40

Well duh! , that was the problem, they were fined $100,000 for not handing over their software when requested. They couldn't be caught. The other teams wernt stupid, just as they knew Benetton were cheating to help michael beat senna via pit stops.


Except that they gave the code later. Still no traction control.

#18985 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:45

Enough of the Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher arguments which have been had time and time again.


It is indeed amazing that we always have to revert to Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher.

Let's focus on 2012: what is wrong with Schumi? He has but 5,72% of the points of Nico, and he is hitting
out on the tires. Nico is comfortably sixth in the standings, with a win to his tally and no complaining about
the tires.

Everyone has to deal with the same tires - is Michael missing the times when he had tailor-made tires adjusted
to his very own driving style??

Although I am critical of Michael, I thought that after the second half season last year and after the improvements
on the Merc this year, that surely a final win of Michael was on the cards....and now this whining and underperforming.
Interpreting the signals Ross has given so far this is the last year we will see Michael in a Mercedes cockpit.
His performance this year is, at least in results, even less impressive than 2010 so far.

#18986 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:50

It is indeed amazing that we always have to revert to Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher.

Let's focus on 2012: what is wrong with Schumi? He has but 5,72% of the points of Nico, and he is hitting
out on the tires. Nico is comfortably sixth in the standings, with a win to his tally and no complaining about
the tires.

Everyone has to deal with the same tires - is Michael missing the times when he had tailor-made tires adjusted
to his very own driving style??

Although I am critical of Michael, I thought that after the second half season last year and after the improvements
on the Merc this year, that surely a final win of Michael was on the cards....and now this whining and underperforming.
Interpreting the signals Ross has given so far this is the last year we will see Michael in a Mercedes cockpit.
His performance this year is, at least in results, even less impressive than 2010 so far.

Front rows quali's
2 DNF's from podium positions
1 non-fault incident which dropped him at the back of the field
1 technical problem in the quali - started from back of the grid


He's doing great with the tires, he has no luck though. Good enough?

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 11:50.


#18987 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:51

Except that they gave the code later. Still no traction control.


There wouldn't have been much point keeping it 3 weeks and leaving the TC code in there, would there :rotfl:
A code that they admitting to developing in testing to boot.

#18988 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:53

Front rows quali's
2 DNF's from podium positions
1 non-fault incident which dropped him at the back of the field
1 technical problem in the quali - started from back of the grid


He's doing great with the tires, he has no luck though. Good enough?


Now the car has improved, so has the greatest driver of all time, wierd that. Not what to do about that pesky team mate?

#18989 LiJu914

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:54

It is indeed amazing that we always have to revert to Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher.

Let's focus on 2012: what is wrong with Schumi? He has but 5,72% of the points of Nico, and he is hitting
out on the tires. Nico is comfortably sixth in the standings, with a win to his tally and no complaining about
the tires.

Everyone has to deal with the same tires - is Michael missing the times when he had tailor-made tires adjusted
to his very own driving style??

Although I am critical of Michael, I thought that after the second half season last year and after the improvements
on the Merc this year, that surely a final win of Michael was on the cards....and now this whining and underperforming.
Interpreting the signals Ross has given so far this is the last year we will see Michael in a Mercedes cockpit.
His performance this year is, at least in results, even less impressive than 2010 so far.


What´s wrong with him is, that he did not finish in Australia and China due to a gearbox-failure & a pit stop-blunder, fell at the back of the grid in Malaysia after Grosjean hit him and had to start from 22 in Bahrain after a DRS-malfunction + a gearbox-change. He´s lost it and should go home...

Edited by LiJu914, 03 May 2012 - 11:57.


#18990 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:54

There wouldn't have been much point keeping it 3 weeks and leaving the TC code in there, would there :rotfl:
A code that they admitting to developing in testing to boot.


Except that the launch control software was still there. They forgot to eliminate the evidence. :eek:


Now the car has improved, so has the greatest driver of all time, wierd that. Not what to do about that pesky team mate?


Actually he is steadily improving since 2010. Not bad for a 43 year old.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 11:56.


#18991 Sakae

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:56

It is indeed amazing that we always have to revert to Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher.

Let's focus on 2012: what is wrong with Schumi? He has but 5,72% of the points of Nico, and he is hitting
out on the tires. Nico is comfortably sixth in the standings, with a win to his tally and no complaining about
the tires.

Everyone has to deal with the same tires - is Michael missing the times when he had tailor-made tires adjusted
to his very own driving style??

Although I am critical of Michael, I thought that after the second half season last year and after the improvements
on the Merc this year, that surely a final win of Michael was on the cards....and now this whining and underperforming.
Interpreting the signals Ross has given so far this is the last year we will see Michael in a Mercedes cockpit.
His performance this year is, at least in results, even less impressive than 2010 so far.

When did Michael asked Pirelli to make tires to suit his style? We see this repeteadly on this BB. You missed his point, big time, you make a big issue out of it, yet your critique is worthless, especially when you conveniently throw in the points without actully considering that low score is not just because of tires. (As with the previous poster).

#18992 spacekid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:16

It is indeed amazing that we always have to revert to Senna/Schumacher or Hill/Schumacher.

Let's focus on 2012: what is wrong with Schumi? He has but 5,72% of the points of Nico, and he is hitting
out on the tires. Nico is comfortably sixth in the standings, with a win to his tally and no complaining about
the tires.

Everyone has to deal with the same tires - is Michael missing the times when he had tailor-made tires adjusted
to his very own driving style??

Although I am critical of Michael, I thought that after the second half season last year and after the improvements
on the Merc this year, that surely a final win of Michael was on the cards....and now this whining and underperforming.
Interpreting the signals Ross has given so far this is the last year we will see Michael in a Mercedes cockpit.
His performance this year is, at least in results, even less impressive than 2010 so far.


Thank you, aditya-now, for making a post that so perfectly encapsulates why reasonable discussion on this thread is impossible.

Michael has out qualified Nico twice, been clearly outqualified once, and had a car failure in the other quali. In races he's had a gearbox failure, a wheel nut failure and been hit behind by another driver.

And now here you are to tell us this is proof that he is underperforming. Whats the point in even trying to debate this with you?

There is a big difference between Michael publicly whining and demanding custom made tyres, and Michael saying that a form of racing where the drivers cannot push the cars to the limit for a single lap during the race because of the tyre wear issues is frustrating for him. Other drivers have said as much, though not as publicly. You said Nico has not complained about the tyres - funny, I think he has. He definately said he wasn't able to push on them at all in China. That may not be interpreted as complaining due to the fact he won, but its making the exact same point.

But again whats the point? Have you even watched the races, or do you just look at the finishing positions and make your mind up from there?

#18993 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:17

http://img4.auto-mot...8705-591576.jpg
Ooh, Michael if I hear "challenge" word from you , I will be very unhappy.

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 12:17.


#18994 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:07

But again whats the point? Have you even watched the races, or do you just look at the finishing positions and make your mind up from there?


What`s the point?

"Michael is a bit different" - http://www.motorspor...-derek-warwick/

...if you never noticed.

#18995 puxanando

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:18

Schumacher visits Pirelli at Mugello

Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport said the Mercedes driver’s meeting with Pirelli lasted half an hour.

“I can imagine what was talked about,” Timo Glock grinned.

Hembery said: “Michael was with our technicians and Mercedes engineers, I do not know what was said.”

Another Pirelli employee insisted: “Nothing special to report.”


WEB>>> :drunk:

#18996 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:22

"Hembery does, however, have some good news to break to Schumacher: “In 2013 our tyres will be even softer.”

As for the extreme degradation, “We are sticking with our philosophy of exciting races, until something else is asked of us”, Hembery insisted."

And where is the good news? Softer tyres? Are this Pirelli guys crazy? Bigger lottery expected.
Yeah, it is time.

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 14:29.


#18997 FlashMaster

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:23

Why this silly smiley? I bet Alfred Alfonso also visited them.

#18998 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:36

"Hembery does, however, have some good news to break to Schumacher: “In 2013 our tyres will be even softer.”

As for the extreme degradation, “We are sticking with our philosophy of exciting races, until something else is asked of us”, Hembery insisted."

And where is the good news? Softer tyres? Are this Pirelli guys crazy? Bigger lottery expected.
Yeah, it is time.


Softer tyres - not crazy at all - it rewards those who can manage their tires. Some can, while others can't. Manage their tires.
Some did while others did not. Manage the tire maker that exclusively supplied their team.


#18999 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:45

Softer tyres - not crazy at all - it rewards those who can manage their tires. Some can, while others can't. Manage their tires.
Some did while others did not. Manage the tire maker that exclusively supplied their team.

This is F1, not Formula tyre management. Aditya I didn't know you like fake F1. You must be thrilled this year. 20 years ago when MS started they didn't play tyre management games. And they pushed a lot. They fight each other. Where in the last race everyone keep their positions. If that was not processional I don't know what it is. But, there is thread about this.

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 14:47.


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#19000 Sakae

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:53

This is F1, not Formula tyre management. Aditya I didn't know you like fake F1. You must be thrilled this year. 20 years ago when MS started they didn't play tyre management games. And they pushed a lot. They fight each other. Where in the last race everyone keep their positions. If that was not processional I don't know what it is. But, there is thread about this.

From his posts it is obvious that he has really not made any effort to understand substance what Michael was stating, and in here he is merely for kicks being contrarian to Schumacher as he is piling up one misinformation upon another. Why argue with him then?