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#19001 iakhtar

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 14:58

My granny could manage these tyres best of anyone, she drives nice and slow and hates racing.

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#19002 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 15:15

This is F1, not Formula tyre management. Aditya I didn't know you like fake F1. You must be thrilled this year. 20 years ago when MS started they didn't play tyre management games. And they pushed a lot. They fight each other. Where in the last race everyone keep their positions. If that was not processional I don't know what it is. But, there is thread about this.


I did not see Kimi keep his position, in fact, he went from 11th to 2nd. Neither did Michael, he went from 17th to 10th. However, I see where you are coming from, Nico stayed 5th.

To be serious: it is amazing to me that you call any 2012 race processional, whereas many of the races from 1994 till 2004 were processional races. So probably as soon as Michael is leading it is not processional to you - who can argue with that.


From his posts it is obvious that he has really not made any effort to understand substance what Michael was stating, and in here he is merely for kicks being contrarian to Schumacher as he is piling up one misinformation upon another. Why argue with him then?


It's not about fake F1, I am following the sport since May 1970. It's about fake Schumacher - when and under which circumstances was Michael successful and when and under which circumstances was/is Michael failing.

To get more perspective, if you are even interested, please read this:

http://www.motorspor...her-get-a-grip/

Get a grip, Sakae, get a grip, Ivan. And of course, get a grip, Schumi!



#19003 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 15:35

I did not see Kimi keep his position, in fact, he went from 11th to 2nd. Neither did Michael, he went from 17th to 10th. However, I see where you are coming from, Nico stayed 5th.

To be serious: it is amazing to me that you call any 2012 race processional, whereas many of the races from 1994 till 2004 were processional races. So probably as soon as Michael is leading it is not processional to you - who can argue with that.

Kimi? The guy was faster that other around him only because this other guys were slowed artificially by the tyres. Is that the racing you like? In China situation was the opposite. Do you like artificially slowed drivers? But, when Kimi catch Vettel what happen? Nothing. He keep his position, even team give him second, because he didn't have chance to pass RG. How many laps we have Alonso, Lewis, Massa , MS ,Perez just driving in group without slightest passing attempt? I thought you were Senna fan? I guess not. He would laugh at current F1. The guy was fighting for every tenth on the race track, MS too. Now they throw away seconds. To have constant speed on shitty tyres.

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 15:47.


#19004 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:02

Kimi? The guy was faster that other around him only because this other guys were slowed artificially by the tyres. Is that the racing you like? In China situation was the opposite. Do you like artificially slowed drivers? But, when Kimi catch Vettel what happen? Nothing. He keep his position, even team give him second, because he didn't have chance to pass RG. How many laps we have Alonso, Lewis, Massa , MS ,Perez just driving in group without slightest passing attempt? I thought you were Senna fan? I guess not. He would laugh at current F1. The guy was fighting for every tenth on the race track, MS too. Now they throw away seconds. To have constant speed on shitty tyres.


To be sure, Ivan: if Michael were winning some of these races, you would not have to write such observations. What you really want is that Michael wins. If he does not, you complain about whatever seems useful to you to divert the attention from Michael's failures.

To quote Paul Fearnley (as you surely had no time to look at the link):

"Schumacher and Ross Brawn were the undisputed masters of pedal-to-the-carbon fibre sprint-stop-sprints when they were at Ferrari. Their domination, however, though impressive and praiseworthy, didn’t often make for compelling racing. Indeed, I’d be amazed if Michael could list all of his victories from that period, in chronological order or otherwise.

So don’t worry, Michael: we were aware of you and your team’s 2012 Pirelli problems even before you voiced them. Should you score your 92nd win this season, we will, therefore, place it above at least, say, 79 or 82 of your others.

We also know that you are in good company. Looking after your tyres, maximising any advantage that they might proffer, are invaluable skills as old as motor racing. Renault’s Michelins, on newfangled, quick-change detachable rims, undoubtedly gave it an edge at the 1906 French GP (above). Blue-blooded Prussian tyro Manfred von Brauchitsch was spectacular over a lap and caught the eye more than did his Mercedes-Benz team-mate Rudi Caracciola, denied that final tenth by injuries sustained at Monaco in 1933. But canny ‘Caratsch’ was the go-to guy in the races, in an era when tyre technology was pricked and deflated by a sudden spike of horsepower. Stirling Moss’s cheeky Cooper crossed the finish line victorious in Argentina in 1958 running on the canvas of its Continentals.

.......As racing aficionados, we could ask for no more.

So get a grip, Michael!"


That's at the core of the matter - it is about being intelligent, strategy-savy and supreme in controlling "when to give it your all, and when to hold back all" (as Ayrton Senna so aptly explained).

Michael can only give it his all when circumstances are controlled in his favor. When he is in control. Now Michael is not in control and has to race the other pilots on equal terms. And so - he is whining....

Edited by aditya-now, 03 May 2012 - 16:06.


#19005 spacekid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:10

Michael can only give it his all when circumstances are controlled in his favor. When he is in control. Now Michael is not in control and has to race the other pilots on equal terms. And so - he is whining....


If you've been watching since 1970 then you must have seen Schumi also in 1991, when he made an immediate impact and had some good races for Benneton, in 1992, in 1996, 1997, 1998 etc... Im not convinced that everything was controlled in his favour then, but he was still supreme.

At 43 he just isn't the same driver. It doesn't seem reasonable to look at his driving for Mercedes (which this season has been much, much better than you are giving him credit for) and say its proof that he just got lucky or wasn't that great in his prime. Its like seeing Alonso driving in 2025 and if he struggles saying well he clearly can't have been very good in 2012 then, because clearly he is.

#19006 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:11

To be sure, Ivan: if Michael were winning some of these races, you would not have to write such observations. What you really want is that Michael wins. If he does not, you complain about whatever seems useful to you to divert the attention from Michael's failures.

To quote Paul Fearnley (as you surely had no time to look at the link):

"Schumacher and Ross Brawn were the undisputed masters of pedal-to-the-carbon fibre sprint-stop-sprints when they were at Ferrari. Their domination, however, though impressive and praiseworthy, didn’t often make for compelling racing. Indeed, I’d be amazed if Michael could list all of his victories from that period, in chronological order or otherwise.

So don’t worry, Michael: we were aware of you and your team’s 2012 Pirelli problems even before you voiced them. Should you score your 92nd win this season, we will, therefore, place it above at least, say, 79 or 82 of your others.

We also know that you are in good company. Looking after your tyres, maximising any advantage that they might proffer, are invaluable skills as old as motor racing. Renault’s Michelins, on newfangled, quick-change detachable rims, undoubtedly gave it an edge at the 1906 French GP (above). Blue-blooded Prussian tyro Manfred von Brauchitsch was spectacular over a lap and caught the eye more than did his Mercedes-Benz team-mate Rudi Caracciola, denied that final tenth by injuries sustained at Monaco in 1933. But canny ‘Caratsch’ was the go-to guy in the races, in an era when tyre technology was pricked and deflated by a sudden spike of horsepower. Stirling Moss’s cheeky Cooper crossed the finish line victorious in Argentina in 1958 running on the canvas of its Continentals.

.......As racing aficionados, we could ask for no more.

So get a grip, Michael!"


That's at the core of the matter - it is about being intelligent, strategy-savy and supreme in controlling "when to give it your all, and when to hold back all" (as Ayrton Senna so aptly explained).

Michael can only give it his all when circumstances are controlled in his favor. When he is in control. Now Michael is not in control and has to race the other pilots on equal terms. And so - he is whining....

Quoting totally unknown Paul Fearnley, doesn't make you right. That asshole is nobody. Get a grip aditya! Be creative. I don't remember in 90ties , they to talk about tyre management? Or commentators to mention it. See 1992 races and tell me when they drive less that 100% to save tyres? You remember Michael first win, I am sure it something you cherish. Good old days.

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 16:15.


#19007 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:25

If you've been watching since 1970 then you must have seen Schumi also in 1991, when he made an immediate impact and had some good races for Benneton, in 1992, in 1996, 1997, 1998 etc... Im not convinced that everything was controlled in his favour then, but he was still supreme.

At 43 he just isn't the same driver. It doesn't seem reasonable to look at his driving for Mercedes (which this season has been much, much better than you are giving him credit for) and say its proof that he just got lucky or wasn't that great in his prime. Its like seeing Alonso driving in 2025 and if he struggles saying well he clearly can't have been very good in 2012 then, because clearly he is.


What you are saying holds much truth - qualifying in Spa 1991 was quite something (although the Jordan was not as bad as many thought) and truly Michael's 1990s races rank far above his 2000s races - which is what Paul Fearnley was indicating as well in his article.

I get the feeling that the whole tire rhetorics is the beginning of Michael's retirement announcement. Seems that tires retire Michael or at least will serve as an excuse when the time comes.

"I did my best in my second F1 career and helped the team up to the top. Unfortunately, for me, because of poor tire rulings, this is not F1 anymore, or the F1 I used to know. Therefore I am retiring at the end of the year and wish all the best to the team and Nico."

#19008 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:29

Quoting totally unknown Paul Fearnley, doesn't make you right. That asshole is nobody.


Well, Ivan, first of all, he is maybe unknown to you, but not a nobody, at least not in the racing community: http://www.motorspor.../paul-fearnley/
Surely Paul has more scope on the history of the sport than most posters here on the BB to put Schumacher's ramblings into perspective.

Secondly, to call anyone an a..hole is poor style. Today I am surprised by you, Ivan, I have to say.


#19009 jbarokF1

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:35

Kimi? The guy was faster that other around him only because this other guys were slowed artificially by the tyres. Is that the racing you like? In China situation was the opposite. Do you like artificially slowed drivers? But, when Kimi catch Vettel what happen? Nothing. He keep his position, even team give him second, because he didn't have chance to pass RG. How many laps we have Alonso, Lewis, Massa , MS ,Perez just driving in group without slightest passing attempt? I thought you were Senna fan? I guess not. He would laugh at current F1. The guy was fighting for every tenth on the race track, MS too. Now they throw away seconds. To have constant speed on shitty tyres.



I agree that Kimi was faster than other drivers with used tyres..But do you also agree that in previous seasons one driver passes another driver just simply because he has a much faster car?? so is this artificial too?

#19010 Atonal

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:35

Its good to see you Aditya.
He's a veteran but I disagree with almost everything he says, always! :)
But that goes without saying, any one who is tied to Senna can never acknowledge Schumacher. The reverse relation is just as strong. That's instinctive hostility and hostile intent for you right there.

#19011 Urawa

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:37

What´s up with Michael? He has only 5.283326387373733729347% of Nico´s points :(
Yeah, what´s up...

#19012 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:42

What´s up with Michael? He has only 5.283326387373733729347% of Nico´s points :(
Yeah, what´s up...


Luckily you miscalculated - he has only 5,7142 % of Nico's points, so the situation is not as dire (5,28 %) as you paint it. ;)

@Atonal - you acknowledge my posting here and call me a veteran - with only a few posts to your name? What was your old avatar and what happened to it? Why the new personality? :wave:


#19013 Mr2s

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:56

. Its like seeing Alonso driving in 2025 and if he struggles saying well he clearly can't have been very good in 2012 then, because clearly he is.


What a ridiculous comparison!

Err no, as Alonso has been truly impressive in not the best car. Having only won 2 WDCs ( how many drivers have done that in a non dominant car) yet highly thought of as a driver around the paddock and always will be.
In the second half of Lewis's WDC year, Alonso scored the most points in a god aweful car. Forget the incident with Piquet at Singapore, there was a second Yellow that people like to forget that saw Hamilton and Alonso bunched up again, Alonso just pulled away from the WDC to be.
Shumacher has never driven a bad car, he joined Ferrari when they were 3rd best team to boot. Alonso joined when they were 4th and did an amazing job. Thats why when Alonso struggles aged 43, people wont look back and say situations were always in his favour. If they were, he would have won a WDC for McLaren, taken up the offer to join Brawn or Red Bull and won at least another, not to mention joining Ferrari earlier and winning another instead of Jean Todt returning a favour to Massa.

Schumacher's age wouldnt be the slightest bit of a hindrance, had he the dominant Ferrari again.
His vastly superior cars being worth much more in lap time, than he loses now for being a couple of years older from when Mansell got his last pole (shocking the young schumacher at the time)

Edited by Mr2s, 03 May 2012 - 16:57.


#19014 Atonal

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:57

I have been following the board for years now but only as a silent spectator. This just might be Michael's last year and before he leaves forever I felt it my duty to add some words of support for someone I have admired for a long time.

I have followed your posts and enjoy them. You are one of the more reasonable posters.
For one positive, you add three negatives for Michael. That's just how I formulate my unwritten responses for Senna and Alonso :) Something of the self is involved when we attach ourselves to different drivers and it takes a magnanimous spirit to disparage the self when he appreciates someone hateful even though it is in small doses. :)

#19015 Boing 2

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 16:57

I do wonder what treatment Barrichello would have recieved in here had he been struggling with the tyres and complaining about it. I very much doubt he would have been hailed as a brave and ballsy man defending his sport....

#19016 jbarokF1

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:02

I do wonder what treatment Barrichello would have recieved in here had he been struggling with the tyres and complaining about it. I very much doubt he would have been hailed as a brave and ballsy man defending his sport....


Exactly!

All this talk about drivers not being able to push 100%...we only started talking about it after MS mentioned it. And prior to that did we know that drivers can not push 100% because of their tyres? No, we did not..

Edited by jbarokF1, 03 May 2012 - 17:07.


#19017 Urawa

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:05

Who´s struggling?

#19018 spacekid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:06

What you are saying holds much truth - qualifying in Spa 1991 was quite something (although the Jordan was not as bad as many thought) and truly Michael's 1990s races rank far above his 2000s races - which is what Paul Fearnley was indicating as well in his article.

I get the feeling that the whole tire rhetorics is the beginning of Michael's retirement announcement. Seems that tires retire Michael or at least will serve as an excuse when the time comes.

"I did my best in my second F1 career and helped the team up to the top. Unfortunately, for me, because of poor tire rulings, this is not F1 anymore, or the F1 I used to know. Therefore I am retiring at the end of the year and wish all the best to the team and Nico."


Actually his quali, as good as it was, wasn't the main thing for me. You're right - the Jordan had already proven itself capable that season - its kinda like the Sauber in Perez's hands this year, in the right hands at the right time the car can do something. For me it was his first race with Benneton at Italy that he made his mark, really punchy stuff. He was very good immediatly, and with no special advantages. Any driver who came into the sport mid this season and put in those 1991 drives against that competition would be hailed as a new talent, and rightly so.

I don't think its fair to dismiss Schumi's abilities in the 2000's - sure the Ferrari team were a machine, but he was instrumental in that and still put in some great drives. Heck even in 2006 when he was on the wane, I don't think you can say there are many on the grid who could have showed his heart and ability in Brazil and China. He was still damned good at times. Alonso and Hamilton could have done it, maybe Vettel. Over 15 years Michael put in more special drives than you give him credit for. Even at Monaco after his ridiculous qualifying he put in a race not many on the grid could have achieved.

To some extent Michaels career stats and success seem to overshadow just how fine a racing driver he was at his peak. Top 10 of all time in my opinion. I don't think its reasonable to look at his Mercedes performances and dismiss all of that so easily. If anything I think the fact that he is still any cop at all at 43 when he has clearly lost some ability is remarkable. He's looked good so far this year.

Regards the tyres - I think this has already been said - he isn't whinging for his own sake, he is commenting freely that he can't push at all during the race and he doesn't like it. He isn't alone, there's plenty of discussion on this. Michael has been one to speak out before if he doesn't like the style of racing - see his comments after the 2010 Bahrain GP. He may well retire at the end of this year - he is not getting any younger or any better, his contract is up and lets face it he's lasted longer than anyone else in modern times.

Edited by spacekid, 03 May 2012 - 17:11.


#19019 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:08

Who´s struggling?


+1

No one bothers to answer that. You know what they say about lie repeated often enough.

All this talk about drivers not being able to push 100%...we only started talking about it after MS mentioned it. And prior to that did we know that drivers can not push 100% because of their tyres? No, we did not..


So what is important? That we don't know about the inner workings of F1 or that we might find out and discuss issues that might change our view of the sport? Maybe Michael just talks because he wants different tires. But what if he is right?

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 May 2012 - 17:11.


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#19020 spacekid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:13

I do wonder what treatment Barrichello would have recieved in here had he been struggling with the tyres and complaining about it. I very much doubt he would have been hailed as a brave and ballsy man defending his sport....


The two do have somewhat different form though, don't they.

If Rubens complains then its just Rubens.

If Michael speaks out, then its someone who usually keeps it quiet making a point.

#19021 z2z

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:14

Schumacher visits Pirelli at Mugello > http://bit.ly/JPPRMt

#19022 spacekid

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:18

So what is important? That we don't know about the inner workings of F1 or that we might find out and discuss issues that might change our view of the sport? Maybe Michael just talks because he wants different tires. But what if he is right?


Just a thought on this - it probably belongs on the other thread but I'm here now - back in the olden days drivers used to have to manage their tyres. They could feel the changing grip, use their experience, and knew when to push. Thats fine. Michaels victory in 1992 has been dismissed on this thread as 'tyre related' but the trick is he looked at his rivals tyres and used that information when deciding when to pit.

But now the cars are covered in sensors, and there are teams of mathematicians at computers working out what lap times the drivers should be doing, and then telling them what sector times to do and in some cases even how to drive through the corners to achieve those times.

Isn't that fundamentally different? To me it feels more and more like the drivers are just playing out some computer simulation of a race.

#19023 LiJu914

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 17:18

I still don´t know, why it seems to be a general consensus that MSC struggles with the Pirellis.

He was quite horrible with the undestroyable Bridgestones in 2010 and improved massively in 2011, when Pirelli joined F1.

This year he looked even slightly better than 2011 performance-wise (until now at least), even though the DNFs, DRS-malfunction /Grosjean-collision hide that in the WDC-standings.

I don´t necessarily think, that MSC primarily "complained" (it was just an one-liner in an post-race interview) because he´s (allegedly) struggling, maybe he just doesn´t enjoy that kind of racing.

Edited by LiJu914, 03 May 2012 - 17:21.


#19024 libano

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 18:35

But do you also agree that in previous seasons one driver passes another driver just simply because he has a much faster car?? so is this artificial too?


good point!
the tyre situation right now is the great equaliser, giving teams with inferior machinery a better shot at the podium. there is something good in there somewhere.


#19025 ivand911

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 18:40

I agree that Kimi was faster than other drivers with used tyres..But do you also agree that in previous seasons one driver passes another driver just simply because he has a much faster car?? so is this artificial too?

Good and bad cars is the history of F1. They can't have equal cars by the rules. But , tyres must be the same for everyone. And that it is not the case. Now tyres work very differently on each car, under different conditions. Gain of 1-1,5sec in race is big. I am sure tyres also worked differently on each car before, but the difference was not so important(lets say 0,1-0,2sec). The tyres before have bigger window so all teams can get inside and to get maximum performance.
That is the point ,tyres were not the differentiator. Still we have Championship for Manufacturers(WCC) , for the guys with best car, so when you have faster car you get award. So, this year cars look closely matched, but is this for real or just tyres make them look close. We will not know that. If we have one constant,neutral tyre we would know who is better like car and driver. This is why we watch F1 , yes? To have answer to this two questions. Who is the best driver and car. And we will not have this answer. F1 lose.
Can we go back to this guy, you know the biggest thing in F1:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Even Luca come to visit him. :up:
Posted Image

good point!
the tyre situation right now is the great equaliser, giving teams with inferior machinery a better shot at the podium. there is something good in there somewhere.

How nobody in the history of F1 didn't think about that? If we make cars equal will be better, because now we are furthest from being equal.
OK, tyre guys find suitable thread for you tyre problems. There is many.
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=166585
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=155428

Edited by ivand911, 03 May 2012 - 18:49.


#19026 Skinnyguy

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 18:42

Relax people, Michael is not slow because of tyres, Michael is going fast but not having luck.

Haters will be soon proved wrong and fans will enjoy races again and praise this F1 with some downsides but at least you don´t stay 20 laps 1.5 behind another guy. :rolleyes:

#19027 aditya-now

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 22:02

I have been following the board for years now but only as a silent spectator. This just might be Michael's last year and before he leaves forever I felt it my duty to add some words of support for someone I have admired for a long time.

I have followed your posts and enjoy them. You are one of the more reasonable posters.
For one positive, you add three negatives for Michael. That's just how I formulate my unwritten responses for Senna and Alonso :) Something of the self is involved when we attach ourselves to different drivers and it takes a magnanimous spirit to disparage the self when he appreciates someone hateful even though it is in small doses. :)


The self or the Self, Atonal?

Well, you being a silent spectator is a reasonable answer - and this being Michael's last season also warmed me towards him, a kind of sentimentalism if you will. What got me started were his unreasonable remarks on Pirelli - had he won a race this year I am not sure if he would have voiced forth this criticism.

As Michael's first career is a mixed affair, so is his second. Only that this time around he is not delivering. I am not sure that a Senna or an Alonso would have put themselves into such a position, and then start a lame rambling about the tires that are the same for everybody.

After all, given Michael's experience and status, this should put him well ahead of everyone else? Reading the tires and applying them intelligently has nothing to do with age, but with experience, intelligence and race wit. This is what I am missing with MSC in 2012.

#19028 RSNS

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 22:58

What`s the point?

"Michael is a bit different" - http://www.motorspor...-derek-warwick/

...if you never noticed.


Warwick's story does not flatter Schumacher. Yes, "a bit different" describes it accurately.

#19029 SeanValen

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:12



MS Pole Lap Nurburg 2001

The sounds of the engine, the speed of the cars back then, and I remember this pole lap, because Williams had pretty much the faster car this weekend, they had won Imola and Canada, and MS put more wing on here, did like a meditation before his lap and really attacked this lap and race, control the race with a well earned pole, focusing on sectors, and did the inlaps/outlaps in ways that only he did in that era.




#19030 jj2728

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:24

I can't help but wonder how some of you would have reacted had it been Nico 33 points down and complaining about the tires and not Schumacher. I sense that it may have gone along the lines of, "Rosberg should just man up and quit being so negative, Michael's adapted well............."

#19031 Pamphlet

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:26

I can't help but wonder how some of you would have reacted had it been Nico 33 points down and complaining about the tires and not Schumacher. I sense that it may have gone along the lines of, "Rosberg should just man up and quit being so negative, Michael's adapted well............."


Had that happened it wouldn't have been so clear that Schumacher's only behind in the standings because of his lack of luck. See Vettel 2010.

#19032 iakhtar

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:26

The self or the Self, Atonal?

Well, you being a silent spectator is a reasonable answer - and this being Michael's last season also warmed me towards him, a kind of sentimentalism if you will. What got me started were his unreasonable remarks on Pirelli - had he won a race this year I am not sure if he would have voiced forth this criticism.

As Michael's first career is a mixed affair, so is his second. Only that this time around he is not delivering. I am not sure that a Senna or an Alonso would have put themselves into such a position, and then start a lame rambling about the tires that are the same for everybody.

After all, given Michael's experience and status, this should put him well ahead of everyone else? Reading the tires and applying them intelligently has nothing to do with age, but with experience, intelligence and race wit. This is what I am missing with MSC in 2012.


It is plainly obvious why MS hasn't been successful this year to anyone, even someone as dishonest as you. Reading the tyres with intelligence and racecraft cannot stop a wheel from falling off or a gearbox exploding, or a DRS malfunction. There is nothing more MS could have done this season and I have no idea what you're really missing in 2012, it's just sad reading your posts sometimes, you can do alot better.

Edited by D.M.N., 04 May 2012 - 08:31.
remove "No disrespect mate, but you really know how to talk complete bollocks, you're really talented at it and your posts are always as fake as the racing we're getting at the moment. " - attack


#19033 ali_M

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:32



MS Pole Lap Nurburg 2001

The sounds of the engine, the speed of the cars back then, and I remember this pole lap, because Williams had pretty much the faster car this weekend, they had won Imola and Canada, and MS put more wing on here, did like a meditation before his lap and really attacked this lap and race, control the race with a well earned pole, focusing on sectors, and did the inlaps/outlaps in ways that only he did in that era.


The Williams faster??? I thought Schumi drove a supremely dominant car to his championships in the 2000's. :)

I enjoyed that lap. Brings back memories. :)

#19034 ali_M

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 00:40

I can't help but wonder how some of you would have reacted had it been Nico 33 points down and complaining about the tires and not Schumacher. I sense that it may have gone along the lines of, "Rosberg should just man up and quit being so negative, Michael's adapted well............."


The reaction would have likely been different. Look at it this way... many of you who point this site this sort of argument will always site your own quotations, giving them credibility through reminding the discussion about the credentials of the person being quoted.

Michael's comments on tyres are far more significant than Nico's, especially on a matter as this and in the current context. Barichello was mentioned as well and how Schumi supporters would respond. You see, Barichello is in a cry wolf situation that he put himself in. If he complains, it would amount to just another of the many complaints. I'd definitely be wondering what to think.

OTOH, with Michael's experience, track record, and his almost never negatively commenting on such matters, it does draw attention.

It all starts with credibility doesn't it? I do agree that credentials are only a start. Drivers cannot see things from the point of view of the fans and vice versa. Different interests and agendas. Some fans cannot see things from the point of view of other fans as well.

Just how it goes.

But then, it all doesn't take away from some of the hyperbole here and the ludicrous anti-schumism delivered with such arrogance. It would seem that some of the arrogance and trolling points to submissiveness at the workplace? Geee.... :well:

#19035 jj2728

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:11

But then, it all doesn't take away from some of the hyperbole here and the ludicrous anti-schumism delivered with such arrogance.


The exact same could be said of some of the ludicrous "schumism" delivered with such arrogance.


#19036 jj2728

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:14

Quoting totally unknown Paul Fearnley, doesn't make you right. That asshole is nobody.


This is exactly what I mean by ludicrous "shumisim".

#19037 Sakae

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:28

I know who Schumacher is, yet I never heard of Fearnely until now, and based on his article, lets keep it that way.

#19038 jj2728

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:33

I know who Schumacher is, yet I never heard of Fearnely until now, and based on his article, lets keep it that way.


I'm not surprised, after all he's only worked for a few minor publications as editor:
Motoring News
GPX
F1 Racing and Motor Sport

#19039 Raelene

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:43

Aditya

I thought Michael was going to retire again because of his bad neck...wasn't that what people where saying...now you say it's because of the tyres hahhaha

and juding from your post - you haven't watched any of the races this year - otherwise you wouldn't have posted such rubbish



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#19040 Sakae

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:46

I'm not surprised, after all he's only worked for a few minor publications as editor:
Motoring News
GPX
F1 Racing and Motor Sport

I do not follow any of those.

#19041 Raelene

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 01:47

I can't help but wonder how some of you would have reacted had it been Nico 33 points down and complaining about the tires and not Schumacher. I sense that it may have gone along the lines of, "Rosberg should just man up and quit being so negative, Michael's adapted well............."



Michael isn't so far down in the points because of the tyres though - it's because of all the bad luck he has had

His point about the tyres wasn't an "excuse" as to why he is behind....it was a quote about how drivers like to race at 100% - not 60%....

pretty clear...

#19042 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:37

Michael isn't so far down in the points because of the tyres though - it's because of all the bad luck he has had

His point about the tyres wasn't an "excuse" as to why he is behind....it was a quote about how drivers like to race at 100% - not 60%....

pretty clear...



Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael and his lack of results.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 04 May 2012 - 03:00.


#19043 ali_M

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 02:59

The exact same could be said of some of the ludicrous "schumism" delivered with such arrogance.


Indeed ... and your point? :)

#19044 exmayol

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:01

Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael 's lack of results.


I don't think he needs any excuses and he was not making one. Any adequate person following F1 would see he's performing just fine, on par with race winning team mate.

Raikonnen fought for victory since car allowed it. MS had race winning car only and China and he was right there among top dogs till the strike of bad luck.

#19045 ali_M

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:02

Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael 's lack of results.


How quickly did Lewis win his first race and why? How long did it take Kubica to win his first race and why?

How long did it take Alonso to win his first race and why?

It took 113 starts for Rosberg to win his first. Why?

So Raikkonen has already earned himself a second place since his return from sabattical. Yes, I'm happy for him too.

I'm not getting you. What are you getting at really?

Was Michael complaining about his results or about the racing?

#19046 Pamphlet

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 03:03

Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael and his lack of results.


Except Schuey was robbed of a potential 3rd/4th place in Australia, a 2nd place in China (while he was slower than Rosberg, he was also faster than Button) and a whothehellknowswhat place in Malaysia (where he destroyed Rosberg) by his team and Grosjean. It's not about failing to deliver results anymore - he hasn't been given the chance to do it. Rosberg had the best car in China and is also known to perform exceptionally well there, unlike his teammate (who considers it one of his worst tracks).

The Mercedes has also never been as strong as the Lotus was in Bahrain. Raikkonen was held up by Massa for a good part of the early stage, even taking some front wing damage in the process, and yet he still had the best car that day and challenged Vettel for the win. China is the only exception, where, as I mentioned, Schuey easily had the potential to finish on the podium.

Edited by Pamphlet, 04 May 2012 - 03:08.


#19047 Raelene

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:19

Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael and his lack of results.



where has he said the tyres are to blame????
Please point out in his statement where he has blamed the tyres for his lack of wins.

and even Raikkonen said you can't compare him and Michael - due to the equipment he has compared to what MS has had since his return.

Edited by Raelene, 04 May 2012 - 05:20.


#19048 Raelene

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:23

here is what he said - where is the blame for his lack of results this year?? He's a racing driver - he wants to race as fast as he possibly can, not at 80% - THAT is what he was complaining about...no blame here that I can see...

The main thing I feel unhappy about is that everyone has to drive well below a driver's, and in particular, the car limits to maintain the tyres," Schumacher told BBC Radio 5.

"I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer - and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a Safety Car.

"If it would be a one-off car issue, then you could say it's up on us to deal with it," he added. "But basically it is everybody with maybe one or two exceptions. And if it is 80 percent of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that."


Edited by Raelene, 04 May 2012 - 05:24.


#19049 libano

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:24

Michael is in a bind. His teammate won a race and then in the next race Raikkonen, in his fourth race back, is fighting for a win and lands a podium. A podium which has eluded Michael for more than 40 races. He had to blame something to explain his lack of success, so he goes after the Pirelli's. Yes the tires are an issue for the drivers this season but this was just an excuse for Michael and his lack of results.


i think raelene laid it out perfectly for you. i've seen the tv fragment live in its original language. no complaining about his lack of success whatsoever. just stating that going around corners at 60% doesn't feel like real racing. i would have to agree. fastest race lap 4sec slower than pole speaks a pretty clear language. btw, michael had a rather good race that day, going from 22nd to 10th, patiently weaving his way through the field.


#19050 Pamphlet

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:37

i think raelene laid it out perfectly for you. i've seen the tv fragment live in its original language. no complaining about his lack of success whatsoever. just stating that going around corners at 60% doesn't feel like real racing. i would have to agree. fastest race lap 4sec slower than pole speaks a pretty clear language. btw, michael had a rather good race that day, going from 22nd to 10th, patiently weaving his way through the field.


Equal pace to Rosberg's despite starting from the back of the grid and having to make way through a whole slew of slow cars. That's got to say something.