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#19101 Pamphlet

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 21:45

Frustrating yes, gutting? I doubt it.


Nah, it's gotten way past mere frustration.
One would understand having a problem once in a while. Twice in a row, it becomes annoying. But four times? Especially after seeing your teammate luck out and win the race, proving that the car may well be a race winner? That's too much.

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#19102 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 22:05

did you actually watch any of the races this year?



Yes I have Mike, he is driving ok but so far it doesn't look like he is going to beat his team mate let alone win the championship. And winning is what he came back to do -

"I'm now with the team that won both titles last year. We have on top Mercedes as a partner and team owner. So you cannot expect anything else than to go for the world championship, and that's what we're aiming for."

He is in a bit of a bind after three years back and still poor results. The tire issue gives him a way to vent and switch the attention away from his two points in the first four races.

Now if he wins the next race all will be good again.

#19103 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 22:32

Yes I have Mike, he is driving ok but so far it doesn't look like he is going to beat his team mate let alone win the championship.

How did you understand he isn't going to beat his team mate? in the first race he was in front, in the second race he finished in front....
ok, nico was a bit better in china (ms would have got a podium though) and in bahrain they were pretty close

of course points-wise it looks terrible but that's hardly his fault. He hasn't actually put a wheel wrong so far, rather solid drives.

I agree he's here to win a championship but he can't do it alone. he needs a team

#19104 baddog

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 22:46

Yes I have Mike, he is driving ok but so far it doesn't look like he is going to beat his team mate let alone win the championship.

You said that he cannot keep up to the current drivers on race day. You would accept that that is completely wrong perhaps? What you are now saying is something completely different.

#19105 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 23:01

You said that he cannot keep up to the current drivers on race day. You would accept that that is completely wrong perhaps? What you are now saying is something completely different.


Sorry, he isn't winning races vs the current crop of drivers is how I meant that. In his former career he was the benchmark for winning.

#19106 ali_M

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 00:08

I never said that such behavior didn't exist back then. Of course it did. There were more than a few drivers who took things to the 'edge' and back and there always have been ever since the dawn of the sport and in all forms of motor racing.


I wasn't really directing my 'don't come now and get all sanctimonious about such behaviour not existing back then...' comment at you but at Sir Stewart. All respect to him etc., but what a self-righteous man!

#19107 oetzi

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 00:20

I wasn't really directing my 'don't come now and get all sanctimonious about such behaviour not existing back then...' comment at you but at Sir Stewart. All respect to him etc., but what a self-righteous man!

Somebody else once thought something similar about him.

“It's annoying that some of the sponsors listen to him because he's won a few championships. But nobody else in Formula One does — not the teams, not the drivers. He's a figure of fun among drivers...He goes round dressed up as a 1930s music hall man. He's a certified halfwit.”

As a Scotsman, I can't really comment.

#19108 Sakae

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:58

If no one listens to him, what was then all that racket about tires? I thought that you are saying that no one cares...



#19109 Muz Bee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:08

I wasn't really directing my 'don't come now and get all sanctimonious about such behaviour not existing back then...' comment at you but at Sir Stewart. All respect to him etc., but what a self-righteous man!

No, just a forthright man, something lacking in today's drivers. His era may be 4 decades ago but give him some credit for knowing what's going on out there that fans don't really appreciate. Interestingly the type of comments that most "moderns" take issue with him on are matters of "ethics", something in short supply these days.

Edited by Muz Bee, 07 May 2012 - 02:09.


#19110 ali_M

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:09

Somebody else once thought something similar about him.

“It's annoying that some of the sponsors listen to him because he's won a few championships. But nobody else in Formula One does — not the teams, not the drivers. He's a figure of fun among drivers...He goes round dressed up as a 1930s music hall man. He's a certified halfwit.”

As a Scotsman, I can't really comment.


Ah yes, Mosely had to put up with his share of so many taking on the role of sanctimonious 'back seat drivers'. When he got defensive, he could be caustic. Whew! :drunk:

#19111 ali_M

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:34

No, just a forthright man, something lacking. His era may be 4 decades ago but give him some credit for knowing what's going on out there that fans don't really appreciate. Interestingly the type of comments that most "moderns" take issue with him on are matters of "ethics", something in short supply these days.


I suggest giving yourself some credit. He knows about driving and his track record speaks for this. I've read his autobiography and I've read other points of view from similarly experienced F1 figures. He has a point of view on current F1 issues and that's all. He doesn't know what's going on. There's no real knowledge about issues as these but just a point of view; in this case, from a veteran and therefore a weighted one. :) I do respect this. However, I make up my own mind since no opinion/POV on matters as these is above reproach. Sir Stewart is just as prone to bias as anyone else. What pundits or their supporters may wish for you to feel is that you can't have a worthwhile or more balanced opinion/POV about such matters. It's this sort of misplaced moral authority that I personally am against. In fact it often takes a view from the outside to brings those all embroiled on the inside to a more refreshing and even perspective. Things being better in the old days and such sanctimony never really makes for progress, but just nostalgia. :) I may not be able to comment about how to drive a race car on the limit or how to build one etc. However, on basic ethics and sanctimony, one can see the latter easily and formulate one's own opinion on the former. No technical know how or experience required there since the principles are universal.

Ethical issues change on the surface, but don't be fooled into thinking that ethical behavior is in less supply than before. That's an unfortunately superficial perspective to have and a very 'sexy' one for the elder statesman who takes comfort in the apparently morally superior era in which he really lived and therefore better understand, rather than the era in which he's more a spectator than a genuine participant. Take the debate to the elder statesmen and it will quickly be evident to both parties that things are simply different. The claim of better times on either side quickly changes into an admission that things were and are simply different once both parties are willing to listen and not be sanctimonious.

Back to Schumi.... it's such a welcome relief that he doesn't get involved in the sanctimony and he likely never will.

Edited by ali_M, 07 May 2012 - 02:36.


#19112 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:40

In order to prevent this escalating, I'll explain it to you Ray.

Adelaide 1995 was Mika's near fatal crash, when he sustained head injuries and was placed in a medical coma for a few days. His recovery was only matched by the miraculous survival in the 1st place.

Melbourne 2001 was a big crash, but wasn't 'near-fatal' at all, sure it was a very scary crash as his front suspension broke and he piled into the wall, but given a marshal did actually lose his life in that same race, to call it as outrageously as you did is a little insensitive imo. Incidentally, I agree MH appeared to be spooked by the crash, he actually pitted at Monaco fearing a car issue, and McLaren could find none so sent him back out. There's little doubt it did play a part in his decision to take a sabbatical that turned into a retirement at the end of the season. For the record, it was imo a really big smash, but I'm also sure it wasn't THE biggest crash that season.... watch the race at Spa and look for Irvine & Burti tangling at Blanchimont.

The reason, I suspect, people have been aggressive in their attitudes here towards you are that you seen entrenched in your position debating the "worthiness" of MS's titles and his overall ability. When you take that position but then continually repeat a> an error such as getting a location & date of a bad crash wrong & b> refuse to admit to said error, it does give the appearance that you're not interested terribly in the facts & are perhaps here just to downplay a driver.

Either way, your credibility took a hit in the eyes of those who disagree with you, you've given them ammunition to debate your views.


Mighty,

You don't need to explain as I watched every one of Mika's F1 races and have almost all of them on tape.

I also saw him race live in person in F1 as far back as his pre-McLaren period - at the Canadian GPs in the early 1990s when he was a youngster at Lotus.

I very well know that the Adelaide one in 95 was near fatal...but I don't think the Melbourne one in '01 was peanuts!

It could have been fatal and it had a big enough impact that it lead to his retirement.

How does anyone here know whether a big crash can or can't be "near fatal"...life and death is a matter of inches.

Perhaps I used phraseology which wasn't to everyone's precise lingo...but I certainly didn't make an "error". Unless you're God, you will never know whether a BIG shunt would have been "near fatal" or not!

In the end, I'm calling Schuey out for not getting on with the 2012 Pirellis. And I started it all by saying that he enjoyed some very special Bridgestones in the early 2000s that helped him win a lot with a teammate who was wasnt his calibre and who was obliged to move over.

Now that he doesn't have a tyre and a teammate advantage the likes of which he had in 2000-2004 and the competitive landscape is much, much stiffer (especially with Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and the like on the scene), he's crying!




#19113 baddog

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:05

You don't need to explain as I watched every one of Mika's F1 races and have almost all of them on tape.

You either did not know/forgot it was his 1995 crash that nearly killed him, or you were lying about 2001. In 2001 he was not in anything that could rationally be described as a near-fatal crash. If we are not sure which it is, then your actual words.. "his near-fatal accident at Adelaide in 2001".. clear it up. You got your facts twisted about (Adelaide in 2001??), and instead of acting like a grownup and admitting it you are still back-pedaling furiously.

This is all rather far from the topic perhaps, but it speaks to the level of competition Michael had. Mika was a competitor at the highest possible level for a long time.

#19114 Muz Bee

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 04:27

Back to Schumi.... it's such a welcome relief that he doesn't get involved in the sanctimony and he likely never will.

Nor ethics :lol: - same ol' Schumie.

#19115 Raelene

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:39

......

Now that he doesn't have a tyre and a teammate advantage the likes of which he had in 2000-2004 and the competitive landscape is much, much stiffer (especially with Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and the like on the scene), he's crying!


watch the fning video - he's not crying at all and blaming tyres for his non result...I guess ifyou can't even get a race date right, no chance of you understanding a simple statement...

#19116 ivand911

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:41

Unless you're God, you will never
In the end, I'm calling Schuey out for not getting on with the 2012 Pirellis.

Who is getting on with 2012 Pirellis? Alonso, Lewis, Button, Vettel, Rosberg? Who? It is some team cars and engineers that are getting on with 2012 Pirellis(on rare or often occasions), not the drivers. There isn't much for what a driver can do for 2012 Pirellis to work on his car.

Edited by ivand911, 07 May 2012 - 08:48.


#19117 MightyMoose

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:44

Ray,

You are not getting my point, and it's quite clear that you're determined to continue on this course of yours.

I said you refused to admit to making an error over "Adelaide 2001" and weren't helping your credibility by refusing to admit to it..... you then say "but I certainly didn't make an "error"... er ok. Even if we assume you were only talking about the possibility of the Melbourne 2001 crash, then I maintain it wasn't even the biggest crash in the race and as I see it, it's in poor taste to claim "near-fatal" given a marshal was killed in JV/RS crash of that race. I've already told you of 1 crash which was also clearly bigger that year, yet you ignored that totally in your reactionary posture. We could go through all sorts of crashes over the years and say "what if?"

As for calling MS out on the tires, it's clear you're unaware of what he actually said & in what context and because of that you've resorted to a sad rehash of 'bashing' past achievements. You point out he had a team-mate who "had to move over" yet seem to fail to realize that in 2002, MS gave RB at least 1 win in return and you could argue he gave him 3. But you never hear RB talking about that do you? It's been done to death & doesn't need you or anyone else bringing it up to support a 'cause'.

The competition may well be stronger now, but I don't think MS is 'crying' at all, he has after all looked pretty speedy this season and but for horrendous luck could potentially have grabbed 1 or 2 podiums.

I only interjected to try to prevent this spiraling out of control, if it seems that you wish to continue this debate, please do so via PM.

#19118 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 13:40

Ray,

You are not getting my point, and it's quite clear that you're determined to continue on this course of yours.

I said you refused to admit to making an error over "Adelaide 2001" and weren't helping your credibility by refusing to admit to it..... you then say "but I certainly didn't make an "error"... er ok. Even if we assume you were only talking about the possibility of the Melbourne 2001 crash, then I maintain it wasn't even the biggest crash in the race and as I see it, it's in poor taste to claim "near-fatal" given a marshal was killed in JV/RS crash of that race. I've already told you of 1 crash which was also clearly bigger that year, yet you ignored that totally in your reactionary posture. We could go through all sorts of crashes over the years and say "what if?"

As for calling MS out on the tires, it's clear you're unaware of what he actually said & in what context and because of that you've resorted to a sad rehash of 'bashing' past achievements. You point out he had a team-mate who "had to move over" yet seem to fail to realize that in 2002, MS gave RB at least 1 win in return and you could argue he gave him 3. But you never hear RB talking about that do you? It's been done to death & doesn't need you or anyone else bringing it up to support a 'cause'.

The competition may well be stronger now, but I don't think MS is 'crying' at all, he has after all looked pretty speedy this season and but for horrendous luck could potentially have grabbed 1 or 2 podiums.

I only interjected to try to prevent this spiraling out of control, if it seems that you wish to continue this debate, please do so via PM.


Ok,

I admit my "error" - Adelaide v Melbourne - in 2001. Yes, It was an error of venue not because i'm mindless, but because of haste of typing (kinda like saying Hockenheim 2011 when in fact it was 'Nurburgring 2011' or 'Germany 2011');

Secondly, my phraseology "near fatal" was, perhaps, 'strong'...but, as i repeatedly said, it was terrible enough for him to make a retirement decision with his wife.

Lastly, I apologise to all the Schuey fans for suggesting he's "crying" about the current Pirellis.

I hope you and every other Shumi Lover is happy with my three sentences above and the idea of 'escelation' ends here and now.

Happy?

:wave:

#19119 libano

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 15:45

It's really time for another race weekend and hopefully a good showing by MSC.

barcelona will be fascinating to watch, with most teams bringing major upgrades to the table.

Edited by Mandzipop, 07 May 2012 - 15:55.
Discussing the merits of the PF1 posters is not relevant to this discussion


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#19120 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 16:33

In the end, I'm calling Schuey out for not getting on with the 2012 Pirellis. And I started it all by saying that he enjoyed some very special Bridgestones in the early 2000s that helped him win a lot with a teammate who was wasnt his calibre and who was obliged to move over.

Now that he doesn't have a tyre and a teammate advantage the likes of which he had in 2000-2004 and the competitive landscape is much, much stiffer (especially with Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton and the like on the scene), he's crying!

for a mika fan it's very interesting you ignore the 90s....for instance when he was battling the better mclarens in his non bridgestone car. remember those days?
how about his pre 98 career? ignore that also?

if you want to spread sh!t around here then fine. it's a free "opinion" based forum.

#19121 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 19:05

for a mika fan it's very interesting you ignore the 90s....for instance when he was battling the better mclarens in his non bridgestone car. remember those days?
how about his pre 98 career? ignore that also?

if you want to spread sh!t around here then fine. it's a free "opinion" based forum.


The McLarens, after Honda left at the end of 1992, were nowhere - other than a massively supreme Senna in 1993 - for nearly half a decade during "the 90s..."

Poor Mika had a relatively shit car to drive in 1994, 1995, 1996 and the most part of 1997. The best he could have hoped for those years were 3rd place podiums/odd 2nd. Things changed toward the very tail end of 1997.

Mika didn't get a proper season-long winning car until 1998 and 1999.

So, my friend, that was McLaren in "the 90s..." following Schumacher's first Grand Prix win in the final part of 1992.

Oh, and the '99 Ferrari was so poor ( insert silly bugger grin here ) in comparison to the McLaren that An All Time Great ( insert joke icon here ) like Eddie Ervine ( :wave: ) nearly beat Mika to the 99 title!!! :drunk:

So, for most of the 1990s, Shuey had way superior packages than most things Mika could get his hands on. 1991, 1993/4, 1995, 1996, 1997...years that the Benetton or Ferraris had the measure of Mika's Lotus and McLarens. 98/99 was more level pegging...but when you think of how Eddie Irvine (who doesn't even make the Top 40 or 45 in historical All Time Lists) nearly beat Mika in 1999, you have to wonder how "better" (your word) that year's McLaren was V the Ferrari!

Gimme a frikkin' break!

I was willing to drop it after my previous post...but rubbish like what your just wrote, my friend, needs to be countered.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 07 May 2012 - 19:10.


#19122 ivand911

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 19:21

Ray ,we really want to read something interesting in this thread. About MS. The things you post are boring and OT. Whoever reads them?

#19123 MightyMoose

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 19:38

I do Ivan911, and so do others. He's fully entitled to post here.

If you don't like what he posts, you have options:
1> Report him
2> Debate with him and explain where you feel he may be mistaken
3> Ignore him

You or anyone else should avoid telling him he can't post. That's against the rules of the forum so please avoid that.

The Hakkinen 2001 issue was connected to MS & his legacy, I feel Ray was mistaken in some of his assessments and took him to task for that (using option2!). Any other OT posts have been removed.

#19124 jj2728

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 19:47

No, just a forthright man, something lacking in today's drivers. His era may be 4 decades ago but give him some credit for knowing what's going on out there that fans don't really appreciate. Interestingly the type of comments that most "moderns" take issue with him on are matters of "ethics", something in short supply these days.


Thankyou. Nice to read that someone else agrees with my points of view.

#19125 ivand911

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 19:56

I do Ivan911, and so do others. He's fully entitled to post here.

If you don't like what he posts, you have options:
1> Report him
2> Debate with him and explain where you feel he may be mistaken
3> Ignore him

You or anyone else should avoid telling him he can't post. That's against the rules of the forum so please avoid that.
The Hakkinen 2001 issue was connected to MS & his legacy, I feel Ray was mistaken in some of his assessments and took him to task for that (using option2!). Any other OT posts have been removed.

I really didn't tell him not to post here. I just read Mika 1992-1999 , 2001 was not there and what is the connection with MS? This all thing is more connected with some Hakkinen thread. Or MS vs MH thread, though is little late for that, IMHO. I personally believe that MH himself doesn't have any sleep deprivation by problems discussed here.


#19126 Owen

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:18

Not happy
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99437

Edited by Owen, 08 May 2012 - 09:19.


#19127 puxanando

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:22

Not happy
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99437

Schumi don't love the Pirellis at all :rotfl:

"We drive like on raw eggs and I don't want to stress the tyres at all. Otherwise you just overdo it and you go nowhere."



#19128 Owen

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:25

Schumi don't love the Pirellis at all :rotfl:

It's actually getting to point where someone ought to calm him down a bit. Making these kind of comments about your tyre supplier may not do you any favours at some point in the future. I wonder what on earth the guys at Pirelli make of this?

#19129 ali.unal

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:27

It's actually getting to point where someone ought to calm him down a bit. Making these kind of comments about your tyre supplier may not do you any favours at some point in the future. I wonder what on earth the guys at Pirelli make of this?

Can you elaborate on that, please?

#19130 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:29

Let the man speak his mind. Better than all the doublespeak and platitudes going around.

Would do him some good to get a positive result or two before any other attacks though, because it's clear that popular opinion is that his lack of results is the reason for all these complaints.

#19131 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:30

Not happy
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99437


I can just imagine the series of interviews this weekend that show Michael all alone with his POV. :)

The anti-schumi fans will have something to sink their claws in for sure.

You let them know Michael. Look at what happened at WSBK last weekend and Pirelli are being just as defensive. :well:

#19132 Owen

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:30

Can you elaborate on that, please?

He is damaging the relationship he has between himself and the tyre supplier. I question the logic of making comments like this in public.

#19133 puxanando

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:33

I think he is becoming more and more frustrated.....
That the first Mercedes win was for Nico has to have hurt him a lot!

#19134 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:35

He is damaging the relationship he has between himself and the tyre supplier. I question the logic of making comments like this in public.


Maybe there is no relationship to be damaged? It's quite telling that he visits the Pirelli motorhome at Mugello and now this.

I'd wager the he's making such comments because, in his view, Pirelli aren't playing nice about it and he does have the leverage to make these statements publicly. Drivers with leverage aught to step forward more often on these matters.

#19135 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:37

The McLarens, after Honda left at the end of 1992, were nowhere - other than a massively supreme Senna in 1993 - for nearly half a decade during "the 90s..."

Poor Mika had a relatively shit car to drive in 1994, 1995, 1996 and the most part of 1997. The best he could have hoped for those years were 3rd place podiums/odd 2nd. Things changed toward the very tail end of 1997.

Mika didn't get a proper season-long winning car until 1998 and 1999.

So, my friend, that was McLaren in "the 90s..." following Schumacher's first Grand Prix win in the final part of 1992.

Oh, and the '99 Ferrari was so poor ( insert silly bugger grin here ) in comparison to the McLaren that An All Time Great ( insert joke icon here ) like Eddie Ervine ( :wave: ) nearly beat Mika to the 99 title!!! :drunk:
So, for most of the 1990s, Shuey had way superior packages than most things Mika could get his hands on. 1991, 1993/4, 1995, 1996, 1997...years that the Benetton or Ferraris had the measure of Mika's Lotus and McLarens. 98/99 was more level pegging...but when you think of how Eddie Irvine (who doesn't even make the Top 40 or 45 in historical All Time Lists) nearly beat Mika in 1999, you have to wonder how "better" (your word) that year's McLaren was V the Ferrari!

Gimme a frikkin' break!

I was willing to drop it after my previous post...but rubbish like what your just wrote, my friend, needs to be countered.



I think you will find a lot of that was down to Mika's mistakes than Irvine and the Ferrari being fast. Had Mika not made so many errors. The title would of been over with a few rounds to go.

Edited by Massa_f1, 08 May 2012 - 09:37.


#19136 aditya-now

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:38

Not happy
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99437


There you go again - blame shifting one more time. The old man is not happy.

#19137 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:42

I think he is becoming more and more frustrated.....
That the first Mercedes win was for Nico has to have hurt him a lot!


The Autosport headline is really a tad over the top. It makes you imagine Schumi all upset and complaining.

http://edition.cnn.c...elli/index.html

I thought he was a lot more relaxed, but insisting on a POV that he believes to be right.

#19138 Raelene

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:44

Let the man speak his mind. Better than all the doublespeak and platitudes going around.

Would do him some good to get a positive result or two before any other attacks though, because it's clear that popular opinion is that his lack of results is the reason for all these complaints.



that's only the popular opinion from people who haven't watched the races this year

#19139 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:54

We have a new kid on the block, Schumi, my hero. It must be worse than it looks from outside, when Michael comes out like that, speaking of which I don't think have seen him ever being so angry. I am with him on that issue (for second year now).

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#19140 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:01

The Autosport headline is really a tad over the top. It makes you imagine Schumi all upset and complaining.

http://edition.cnn.c...elli/index.html

I thought he was a lot more relaxed, but insisting on a POV that he believes to be right.

CNN reporter has mentioned McLaren's agreeable voice with Michael, yet autosport guy just writes another, typical for this source, one of those divisive articles, rather than to take a walk around the block and take a temperature of the paddock on the tire issue.

Edited by Sakae, 08 May 2012 - 10:01.


#19141 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:04

He is damaging the relationship he has between himself and the tyre supplier. I question the logic of making comments like this in public.

Hembery drew first blood with the shody, and indefensible product about which he claims is a racing tire.

#19142 aditya-now

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:08

CNN reporter has mentioned McLaren's agreeable voice with Michael, yet autosport guy just writes another, typical for this source, one of those divisive articles, rather than to take a walk around the block and take a temperature of the paddock on the tire issue.


Well, Sakae, that's one way to look at it. As you know, there is many perspectives, many angles on the same occurrence.

The other drivers get on with their business and deliver. Michael goes on to complain.

As Raelene likes to say, "have you watched the races this season?". Yes, Michael was very unlucky. Yet, luck favors the prepared, luck favors the bold.
For a long time it was the team mates of Michael who seemed to be the unlucky ones, while Michael was the prepared, Michael was the bold.

Nowadays, Nico delivers on the track. Michael delivers before the microphone.


#19143 ivand911

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:09

I think he is becoming more and more frustrated.....
That the first Mercedes win was for Nico has to have hurt him a lot!

Yeah, right. :rotfl:


#19144 aditya-now

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:13

Hembery drew first blood with the shody, and indefensible product about which he claims is a racing tire.


I think Pirelli are quite apt in delivering exactly the product that is asked of them. They have proved the last two years, that they can deliver exactly to specification.

Michael should rather speak out against those who decided to have these tire specifications (FIA, Bernie, the teams?!) than hit out at a company that just
delivers what they were asked to deliver. Michael knows that it was not Pirelli who decided these tire specifications. So what is the reason for Michael to exert
such pressure on Pirelli in public?

Edited by aditya-now, 08 May 2012 - 10:19.


#19145 Pits

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:13

Why isn't anyone openly supporting Micheal on this?
I totally agree with Schumacher, but why are the other drivers not speaking up?

#19146 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:16

Well, Sakae, that's one way to look at it. As you know, there is many perspectives, many angles on the same occurrence.

The other drivers get on with their business and deliver. Michael goes on to complain.

As Raelene likes to say, "have you watched the races this season?". Yes, Michael was very unlucky. Yet, luck favors the prepared, luck favors the bold.
For a long time it was the team mates of Michael who seemed to be the unlucky ones, while Michael was the prepared, Michael was the bold.

Nowadays, Nico delivers on the track. Michael delivers before the microphone.

I am having difficulty to make a definite link between his seasonal ranking, and his position on tires the same way as you do. Read the (CNN) article again, and you must realize that despite his views on tires, he has a different opinion what Nico and him can do due to having a good car this year. If you want to find flaws, you will, but I am not a such person, and I see in him more positives than negatives (which are related occasionally to his wardrobe anyway).

Edited by Sakae, 08 May 2012 - 10:17.


#19147 Raelene

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:16

according to the CNN report - Martin Whitmarsh agrees.

#19148 ivand911

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:18

I think Pirelli are quite apt in delivering exactly the product that is asked of them. They have proved the last two years, that they can deliver exactly to specification.

Michael should rather speak out against those who decided to have these tire specifications (FIA, Bernie, the teams?!) then hit out at a company that just
delivers what they were asked to deliver. Michael knows that it was not Pirelli who decided these tire specifications. So what is the reason for Michael to exert
such pressure on Pirelli in public?

Do you know what Pirelli were asked to do , and if they deliver exactly that? They say: we decide to be more aggressive. This doesn't go well with your post. He is pressuring them , because he can.

Why isn't anyone openly supporting Micheal on this?
I totally agree with Schumacher, but why are the other drivers not speaking up?

Because they are afraid little puppies.

Edited by ivand911, 08 May 2012 - 10:19.


#19149 Longtimefan

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:28

Why isn't anyone openly supporting Micheal on this?
I totally agree with Schumacher, but why are the other drivers not speaking up?


Because most of them are spineless 'PR' machines with no soul.



#19150 aditya-now

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:30

Do you know what Pirelli were asked to do , and if they deliver exactly that? They say: we decide to be more aggressive.....


Who is "we"? Pirelli alone? Or those in charge and Pirelli?

Do you know that Pirelli alone decided to be more aggressive? Or is it just an assumption?

The facts are: Michael has two points in the WDC standings, like his former team mate Massa. And he is complaining, whereas
all the other drivers are not.

......because they are "afraid little puppies"?

Most fans enjoy the 2012 season tremendously, because it promises not only to become another 1982, but also because the racing is great. Dealing with difficult parameters like on-the-edge-tires has always been part of the sport. On the other hand, I fully understand that you Schumacher fans are not happy (yet) with the way the season has panned out so far.

The big question to me is: will Pirelli yield to Michael's pressure and deliver the tire that he wants from them? Or is his influence in the sport not big enough anymore to effectuate such a turn of events?