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#19151 puxanando

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:58

Who is "we"? Pirelli alone? Or those in charge and Pirelli?

Or is his influence in the sport not big enough anymore to effectuate such a turn of events?


He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:


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#19152 ivand911

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:02

Aditya , for you:
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99281

"If the sport decides we are too aggressive we can change though; we can supply tyres that don't degrade and allow you to push, as we did last year when the hard and medium tyres had negative degradation - the loss of performance from the tyre was less than the loss of fuel.


"We have limited to some extent what they can push




#19153 ivand911

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:03

He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:

Agree, he is ONE head above the rest. I am sure Fernando love 2012 Pirellis!


#19154 mknight

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:10

He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:


There's no evidence that he is the only one that wants it. The only difference has been that Schumacher has spoken out about it, while many others haven't shared their opinion.

I think it's safe to say that drivers would much rather have tyres that allows them to drive the car at the limit than to be playing the tyre conservation game.

Of course, there are drivers who aren't as quick as others when pushing the car at the limit so much prefer to drive for a slower delta laptime. It evens up the playing field and negates the advantage that drivers with raw pace have.

If anything though Schumacher should be happy with this form of F1, as a 42 year old who's lost a few tenths in raw pace over the years, he should've welcomed the idea of racing for consistent set times as opposed to blitzing the track every lap. In fact, in his comeback career he's had his best qualifying performance this season and was on for a podium in China, so the argument that he's being critical because he isn't having his way is a void argument. But as a pure racing driver I commend him that he's sticking to his guns and would rather remain pure to the sport, even if that means he may not be as fast as the others.

Edited by mknight, 08 May 2012 - 11:12.


#19155 aditya-now

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:11

Aditya , for you:
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/99281


Thank you, Ivan!

For you again the question: will Pirelli yield to Michael's pressure and deliver the tire that he wants from them? Or is his influence in the sport not big enough anymore to effectuate such a turn of events?

#19156 ivand911

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:14

Thank you, Ivan!

For you again the question: will Pirelli yield to Michael's pressure and deliver the tire that he wants from them? Or is his influence in the sport not big enough anymore to effectuate such a turn of events?

If his influence is not big enough, I think it is time to call Jean. :p But, I think he will handle Pirelli easily.
He is 43 , he is not fighting for himself, he is fighting for F1.

Edited by ivand911, 08 May 2012 - 11:15.


#19157 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:20

He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:


This has squat to do with his choosing to voice his opinion on the matter whether he be perhaps the only persistently vocal source. In fact, one of the points that he made from the outset is that if it were only Mercedes having a problem then they would have work to do; however, most of the teams on race day suffer. It's based on a problem faced by most of the teams that he voices his objection, not a personal one. Can't you see this?

Michael is criticising the current tyres... period. They happen to be manufactured by Pirelli. We don't know just how much lattitude Pirelli have in tyre design. Have you ever asked for a product, are delighted when asked what you want out of the product, only not to be happy in the end with it? IOW's, since the FIA have requested a particular tyre type, doesn't necessarily mean that they've been given exactly what they wanted and expected.

The politics of the situation MUST be appreciated in terms of who speaks, who doesn't, and moreover, what Pirelli has to say about it. It's the politics why you'll so often see the opposite happen when compared to what was announced 1 month ago. The announcement is always made to quell rumours about something surprising or controversial happening or about to happen. There's a lot of that going on now about the tyres. The typical driver would do well not to get involved with it. Michael, OTOH, has tremendous leverage, knows this, feels a responsibility to use it under the circumstances and kudo's to him. The part that I love is that as in the past, he continues to remain steadfast despite the negative commentary that typically abounds while he blazes his trail. Wildly negative commentary based on envy and jealousy.

Edited by ali_M, 08 May 2012 - 11:25.


#19158 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:51

Because most of them are spineless 'PR' machines with no soul.



I agree. In my opinion i don't think Hamilton is enjoying these tyres. Had the tyres been the 2011 version am sure Hamilton would of won a race this year. Instead he has been behind Perez and Alonso past few races and never once looked liked passing. Yes i know he had pit stop problems, but he should of easy been able to pass giving the pace of the McLaren. Maybe he is using Martin to express his concerns.

Its not like Schumacher is saying bring back Bridgestone tyres. He just wants to be able to push. Shouldent all race drivers?

#19159 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:01

Quite simply F1 "Racing" has been reduced to a prolonged tire test, and who can pussy-foot around with bad tires the best.

Might be good for endurance racing, but I want 10 10ths the whole time. THAT is F1, not "strategy" around "when can we use the tires and how much?". Ahrghrghh.





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#19160 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:22

He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:
with

How many drivers have you interviewed, and how many spoke with you without reservations?

#19161 jav

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:29

Quite simply F1 "Racing" has been reduced to a prolonged tire test, and who can pussy-foot around with bad tires the best.

Might be good for endurance racing, but I want 10 10ths the whole time. THAT is F1, not "strategy" around "when can we use the tires and how much?". Ahrghrghh.



I agree completely with this.

I also question that the teams "requested" the traits of the current tires. They may have requested tires that lasted X laps and with graduated grip according to compound but to suggest teams requested tires that have an extremely narrow operating window, or degradation that is completly unconnected to tire life, or peaky performance is not something I've read.

I think Pirelli is becoming defensive and many teams and drivers are being encouraged to support them- lest they'll leave like Bridgestone did. Schumi is in a uniquely good position to give a rats arse about the politics and his future to "tow the line" and instead voices what others feel.

While many agree all teams have to deal with the same issues, I think most would also agree managing tires has become too big a single factor in F1 racing.

#19162 SparkPlug

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:31

I think its pretty clear that F1 has a problem with these tyres.

-When Raikkonen says he had just one chance to have a go at Vettel for the lead, after which his tyres fell away,
-or when Nico Rosberg after a race win says he didnt push his tyres at all,
-or when we see drivers walking out of their cars fresh even after a race like Malaysia, you know we have a problem.

As far as I can see, the other drivers being asked for an opinion, namely Rosberg, Vettel and Webber seem to carefully sidestep the issue at hand and talk about how great the 'racing' has been. Thats the diplomatic way to answer questions about Pirelli.

No one is directly addressing the compound as such, and why drivers are not being able to drive at the limit without worrying about destroying their tyres. All they talk about is how having to manage these tyres is improving the show. This is a form of deception at its best.

What Schumacher is primarily hinting at, is that the compound is too sensitive to drivers or cars pushing them. Which is not to say the racing isnt exciting, but that the driver's potential input to making the car go faster is being negated or restricted by the tyres.

I appreciate Schumacher's forthrightness in this issue :up:

#19163 schubacca

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:35

MS is entitled to his option.

Hembery is a clown that is too much in love with his own voice.

MS is the most experienced driver on the grid. I would say that he knows enough about tyres....

For those that claim that MS is frustrated because he is not winning, please look at his dry spells and see if he was bitching about tyres.....? He was not....





#19164 kosmos

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:41

I'm pretty sure almost all the drivers think like Michael, they just face the matter on a different way, some moan, some stay silence because is the same for everyone and some think is a challenge and try to overcome it.

#19165 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:48

MS is entitled to his option.

Hembery is a clown that is too much in love with his own voice.

MS is the most experienced driver on the grid. I would say that he knows enough about tyres....

For those that claim that MS is frustrated because he is not winning, please look at his dry spells and see if he was bitching about tyres.....? He was not....


Very good reminders for those with selective vision and memory loss where Michael is concerned. :p

He spent two seasons in Nico's shadows. Not a word about tyres and complaints about the racing. In fact, he often said that he was having good fun on race days.

Now we have a genuine issue with tyres, the guy is being boldly vocal about it. Gee... we should be thankful.

#19166 ali_M

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:59

I'm pretty sure almost all the drivers think like Michael, they just face the matter on a different way, some moan, some stay silence because is the same for everyone and some think is a challenge and try to overcome it.


Sure... but there's something common to all.... it's a big issue and an unpredictable one.... same for everyone, right? I wish 'same for everyone' really justified such suboptimal circumstances. It's like introducing a ridiculous rule and then asking all protestors to be calm since it's the same for everyone.

New F1 motto .... What's the problem?.., it's the same for everyone.

Rrrright. :stoned:

#19167 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 13:08

Yeah, quite so. Same in football, you hear the saying that "both teams play on the same pitch" when it's in a bad condition. But you wouldn't want football to be played on a consistent basis on waterlogged pitches, would you? :p

#19168 Atreiu

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 13:12

Yeah, quite so. Same in football, you hear the saying that "both teams play on the same pitch" when it's in a bad condition. But you wouldn't want football to be played on a consistent basis on waterlogged pitches, would you? :p


Nice example.

#19169 Sakae

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 13:34

Yeah, quite so. Same in football, you hear the saying that "both teams play on the same pitch" when it's in a bad condition. But you wouldn't want football to be played on a consistent basis on waterlogged pitches, would you? :p

Perfect analogy.

#19170 RacingReporter

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 13:39

He is only ONE driver of the rest!
Why Pirelli should make the tires how HE wants? :drunk:

You're also forgetting the fact that Brundle stated recently that a 'WDC' and 'another driver' were hating the guts out of the Pirellis, off the record. That combined with Schumachers comments (and Autosports coloured article which is ignoring f.e. the whole paddock and Brundles findings), Rosberg not pushing at all but retreating his comment quite quickly, drivers getting out of the car without problems after 2 hours of Malaysia, drivers saying these tyres are 'challenging' but not that they like them and Raikkonen having to back off after ONE look up the inside => problems.

Don't forget your Fernando is being hailed all around the paddock (and it includes me) because of his adaptibility, getting cars by their throats and getting on with it in spite of problems. But that doesn't mean that there are no problems at all.

Edited by RacingReporter, 08 May 2012 - 13:41.


#19171 H2H

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 14:35

Yeah, quite so. Same in football, you hear the saying that "both teams play on the same pitch" when it's in a bad condition. But you wouldn't want football to be played on a consistent basis on waterlogged pitches, would you? :p


:up:

I do even like the new Pirellis as they do make nail-biting races happen, however Schumi has a proper point.



#19172 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 14:55

You used to worry if a car breaks down, now it is the tire.

But we have a raceweekend coming and we still have a Schumacher-Bingo going on. What or who will fail on his car this weekend?
Australia - Gearbox
Malaysia - Grosjean
China - Front right wheel gunner
Bahrain - DRS system in qualy and a gearbox change.

#19173 skid solo

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 15:23

Why isn't anyone openly supporting Micheal on this?
I totally agree with Schumacher, but why are the other drivers not speaking up?


Bunch of pussies in my opinion. Or maybe they like them :confused:

#19174 Pits

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 15:50

You used to worry if a car breaks down, now it is the tire.

But we have a raceweekend coming and we still have a Schumacher-Bingo going on. What or who will fail on his car this weekend?
Australia - Gearbox
Malaysia - Grosjean
China - Front right wheel gunner
Bahrain - DRS system in qualy and a gearbox change.


Or maybe Schumacher wins in Barcelona, wouldn't that be a great opp to tell the world how crappy these tires are in the pressco..
I think he wouldn't even be happy with the win because it wasn't due to a good drive, but because of a good operating window.
It seemed the same in the after the quali were he got 3rd place, he didn't seem happy alto it was hiss best quali since his comeback.


#19175 Pits

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 16:00

Nice Schumacher onboard of the start Barcelona 2011! :smoking:
http://www.gppits.ne...barcelona_2011/


#19176 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 16:42

I'm pretty sure almost all the drivers think like Michael, they just face the matter on a different way, some moan, some stay silence because is the same for everyone and some think is a challenge and try to overcome it.

putting the names in a hat and pulling the winner is the same for everybody, however that doesn't make it right for racing.

#19177 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 17:27

Thank you, Ivan!

For you again the question: will Pirelli yield to Michael's pressure and deliver the tire that he wants from them? Or is his influence in the sport not big enough anymore to effectuate such a turn of events?



"We would [be open to change] for the sport, but its not just the drivers – it's the teams, the promoter. The team principals tend to be quite pragmatic and look at the bigger picture, and I would be very surprised if they asked us to do anything different."

I wonder where Mercedes/Brawn would stand on this issue considering it was with these tires that Merc finally had their breakthrough win. A change might risk sending them back down the grid.

Another issue for Michael would be that what if indeed Pirelli did give him the tires he wants and he still can't win a race and continues to be beaten by Rosberg. What would he say then finally having a fast car and not being able to make it happen?

We will have to keep an eye on this situation. One thing I do agree with is the benchmark of Montreal 2010. I was at that race and it was very exciting right to the end (even though Hamilton won) and it is a style of race worth replicating.



Thirty years ago today. Salut Gilles!

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 08 May 2012 - 17:33.


#19178 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 17:44

"We would [be open to change] for the sport, but its not just the drivers – it's the teams, the promoter. The team principals tend to be quite pragmatic and look at the bigger picture, and I would be very surprised if they asked us to do anything different."

I wonder where Mercedes/Brawn would stand on this issue considering it was with these tires that Merc finally had their breakthrough win. A change might risk sending them back down the grid.

Another issue for Michael would be that what if indeed Pirelli did give him the tires he wants and he still can't win a race and continues to be beaten by Rosberg. What would he say then finally having a fast car and not being able to make it happen?

We will have to keep an eye on this situation. One thing I do agree with is the benchmark of Montreal 2010. I was at that race and it was very exciting right to the end (even though Hamilton won) and it is a style of race worth replicating.



Thirty years ago today. Salut Gilles!


From AMuS

The situation so far in 2012 has seen Mercedes and Nico Rosberg break through with pole and victory in China, but Briton Brawn is not sure he would describe the season as “thrilling”.

“Perhaps (it is) for the spectators,” he smiled, “for the teams it’s just more difficult. The first four races were marked by inconsistency for all the teams. We are still getting experience with our cars, but especially how they work with the new tyres.

“Obviously for the sport, it’s great.”

And Brawn is confident Mercedes can keep up with the development speed of the best teams, including McLaren, Red Bull and Ferrari.

“Yes. We have brought in Bob Bell, Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis, which is paying off now, as are some other strategic changes. I do not think we are inferior to our competitors in any way,” he insisted.


#19179 bauss

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 17:51

Yeah, quite so. Same in football, you hear the saying that "both teams play on the same pitch" when it's in a bad condition. But you wouldn't want football to be played on a consistent basis on waterlogged pitches, would you? :p


Perfect example...

Lesser teams and people attack Wenger, Guardiola and co are whinging (just like they are attacking MS now) when they have to play on those terrible surfaces...
But fact of the matter is talent is hindered on those terrible pitches, sure the best teams may often scrap through, but playing on a terrible surface makes things look closer than they are.

That is the exact thing Pirelli does in F1 the name of excitement, how any true fan can defend this is beyond me...


Schumacher has nothing to prove anymore, he has won it all, he is probably as rich the rest of the drivers combined so he speaks his mind and what many other drivers are thinking.

Good for him, the sport seriously needs it now

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#19180 exmayol

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:06

Gotta love all the attention MS is getting even with poor luck. Bad luck will eventually stop and we'll see him shine, over and over!

#19181 Juan Kerr

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:08

Its a shame that they spend the whole race trying to not to use the tyres to the extent that they cannot use the performance at all throughout the whole grand prix. Its like buying a Ferrari and its delivered on bicycle wheels, or like imagine trying to get drunk by diluting a beer and sharing it around the table 10 times and then drinking 10 times the amount you normally would, you've had the same amount of alcohol but not once did you enjoy a proper drink!
I totally empathise with Schumachers POV, I mean he's in a great position to have this opinion, he's 43 and not breaking a sweat with his elbow hanging out of the cockpit looking at his watch and yawning. He should be complaining that its hard for him and he is struggling to cope with the G forces and reactions and keep up with the younger guys. Instead there's no challenge. Wow wee if you can make the tyres last, then congratulations you're a great tyre manager you're not a grand prix great though.

#19182 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:11

For the first time ever (and i mean EVER) we actually didn't have a dire, boring, snoozefest of a GP in Bahrain.

Bahrain - a Tilke Track with a snowball's chance in hell of having a rain shower making things interesting.

This year we actually got some exitement at the heretofore most boring GP ever.

Why did that happen?

The Tyres. That the F1 'circus' asked the manufacturer to create in order to stop the kind of boring shit we used to get at many circuits.

You can't have it both ways.

At least this time, I didn't turn off the tv after half distance and at least this year i'll be happy to pay for air fair and hotel and tickets to Montreal, something which I couldn't have been bothered with at the point-quirt-point-squirt races where they wera all on three or four stints of equal amounts of fuel and the only excitement that took place was "an over-take in the pits" following a fuel stop.

That was Grand Prix racing at it's shitiest.

Thank heavens those point-squirt days are over and we have Grand Prix drivers doing a Grand Prix drivers jop like the Prosts and Sennas and Stewarts and Clarks used to do.

Micheal is making himself look foolish. He should shut up and drive the car and try and beat Rosberg. You don't hear Rosberg or Alonso or Vettel or Hamilton complaining, do you? Heck, even Webber - the loudest mouth of them all - is getting on with the job they're being paid millions to do.

They are being paid 10, 20, 30 Million to, effectively, "entertain" us. Michael's getting the sharp end of that amount and should remember that before making himself sound like a greedy child who can't do anything with what EVERYONE else has been given to do their job with!

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 08 May 2012 - 18:18.


#19183 puxanando

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:37

Micheal is making himself look foolish. He should shut up and drive the car and try and beat Rosberg. You don't hear Rosberg or Alonso or Vettel or Hamilton complaining, do you? Heck, even Webber - the loudest mouth of them all - is getting on with the job they're being paid millions to do.

They are being paid 10, 20, 30 Million to, effectively, "entertain" us. Michael's getting the sharp end of that amount and should remember that before making himself sound like a greedy child who can't do anything with what EVERYONE else has been given to do their job with!


:up: CLEAR as water....I see it the same way..................


#19184 RacingReporter

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:39

Yes, that's why he was seen as the better driver last season and only finished behind due to more technical retirements. 2010 was a reasonable flop but 2011 is no coincidence as you must have noticed he outqualified Rosberg twice and at least matched Nico's performance on-track, except maybe for China.

Who the hell are you to say he has got to get a grip and move on? He is doing that, only we see seriously quickly fading tyres. His complaint is about the way you have to handle the tyres, not the way he is handling himself against the rest of the field. Tyres are influencing results big time, they should be less input-sensitive because you can throw them over the cliff in a second. Than only tyre management skill is required, not your abilities to get hundreds of a second back in each corner compared to the competition. Racing is a mix of those two, fact, but talented drivers like Hamilton are wasting away because the balance between the two skill requiring ingredients is gone. It's artificial, nothing more, nothing less.

I'm calling for an construction improvement because this turned into Formula Fake ever since Pirelli walked into F1. The grip levels are good but the durability is tear-worthy. I think Pirelli is a win for F1 but only if they manage to iron out the inconsistencies and durability problems. Delivering tyres which are two tyre specs out of range is just bullshit. Bridgestone was at the other end of the line, grip was relatively poor but the durability went over the moon. The balance is somewhere in between.

Curious what they are going to do with this, if I look at Hembreys statements it's going to be nothing unless the FIA calls for it. Funfact: Paul Hembreys Twitter account was deleted. The critics must have overwhelmed his channel :')

:up: CLEAR as water....I see it the same way..................

You are ignoring my post which was directly to you, thus proving my point.

Edited by RacingReporter, 08 May 2012 - 18:46.


#19185 exmayol

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:48

Micheal is making himself look foolish. He should shut up and drive the car and try and beat Rosberg. You don't hear Rosberg or Alonso or Vettel or Hamilton complaining, do you? Heck, even Webber - the loudest mouth of them all - is getting on with the job they're being paid millions to do.

They are being paid 10, 20, 30 Million to, effectively, "entertain" us. Michael's getting the sharp end of that amount and should remember that before making himself sound like a greedy child who can't do anything with what EVERYONE else has been given to do their job with!


Sorry mate but they are not paid to entertain you. They are paid to deliver results and promote the brand they represent. It is responsibility of Bernie & Co to make that process somehow entertaining. DRS, questionable tires, etc... they are succeeding. I'm not sure everyone likes that entertaining though. If you do - great. I prefer 1998 / 2000 / 2003 kind of entertainment, much more logical and easier to comprehend.

The drivers who are not vocal might have their own reasons but it does not mean they are necessarily happy with the tyre situation. Now regarding Webber, don't even know why you would bring this biggest hypocrite on the whole grid here.

Finally, by no means MS makes himself foolish. He never bitches aka JPM and the likes. In fact he speaks up rarely but to the point.

#19186 spacekid

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 18:57

Thank heavens those point-squirt days are over and we have Grand Prix drivers doing a Grand Prix drivers jop like the Prosts and Sennas and Stewarts and Clarks used to do.


It isn't though, is it? The Prosts Sennas and Clarks had to manage their tyres, but they did so themselves and could also push without destroying the tyres. Now the cars are covered in sensors and the drivers are told what times to drive based on computer simulations. If they push the tyres fall apart and you get your 'action'. It isn't the same at all.

I don't understand why people can't understand that Michael isn't saying the tyres are to blame for his poor season - because he's actually driven fine so far - he is simply saying not being able to push at all during an F1 race is unsatisfying for him. I agree with him.

#19187 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 19:01

:up: CLEAR as water....I see it the same way..................


Of course you do. As soon as FA backs MS on this you will change your mind. There is a heavy debate on the tyre situation, and only MS has cared to speak out on it. As some posters have already pointed out, MS is in the situation to do that wothout actually harming himself or his team. Now, if you - or anybody for that matter - would show me a direct quote where any of the other drivers have said anything other on this when asked that 'it is good for the show/sport', the beer's on me.(Bailey's or soda pop for you) So far, no active driver has expressed his profound love for these tyres. Many of you quote Webbo as saying it is fine. But he started his comment with "of course we all would want ... or sthing to that extent. So saying that MS is making himself look foolish is kind of very dumb, sorry. If there is somebody on the grid at all to make a comment on a tyre, than it is him. He drove on them all, and won on them all. (uhmm, ok, not Michelin)

saying that what you see is enjoyable for various, self imposed reasons, is ok. It is enjoyable for a while. But artificial suspense will soon wear itself out, and it will become a farce. For god's sake, its frigging tyres, should not be more important than the car and the driver.


#19188 Afterburner

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 19:04

How I read today's Autosport headline:

"SCHUMACHER RENEWS--"

:D :D :D

"--ATTACK ON PIRELLI TYRES"

:well: :well: :well:

#19189 F1Champion

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 19:48

What people forget is that these drivers wouldn't mind managing tyres if they could use them knowing that the drop off was consistent. Everyone talks about the 80's but the characteristics of those tyres were conventional, the tyres lasted for a known amount of laps (roughly) and as a result you could take life out of the tyre early in the stint knowing that in the last 10 laps you might be scrabbling for grip (Senna v Prost), but that was a choice you had. These Pirellis are different though, you can't push for more than a couple of laps because you overheat the carcass and the tyre life immediately falls to nil. In addition they don't gradually fall off, but hit the cliff in the space of a couple of laps and their peak operating window is extremely small. As a result you are driving within yourself to keep the tyres alive....that is completely different to the 80's in my opinion.




#19190 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 19:56

What people forget is that these drivers wouldn't mind managing tyres if they could use them knowing that the drop off was consistent. Everyone talks about the 80's but the characteristics of those tyres were conventional, the tyres lasted for a known amount of laps (roughly) and as a result you could take life out of the tyre early in the stint knowing that in the last 10 laps you might be scrabbling for grip (Senna v Prost), but that was a choice you had. These Pirellis are different though, you can't push for more than a couple of laps because you overheat the carcass and the tyre life immediately falls to nil. In addition they don't gradually fall off, but hit the cliff in the space of a couple of laps and their peak operating window is extremely small. As a result you are driving within yourself to keep the tyres alive....that is completely different to the 80's in my opinion.



At last somebody points that out. Prost ( as the archetype of smooth driving )had the option of nursing the tyres and knew when he could push. He was an artist. Now there is no option, You nurse, or you are done. MS is just pointing that out. I don't think even Button has a problem with that.

#19191 schubacca

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 20:00

Of course you do. As soon as FA backs MS on this you will change your mind. There is a heavy debate on the tyre situation, and only MS has cared to speak out on it. As some posters have already pointed out, MS is in the situation to do that wothout actually harming himself or his team. Now, if you - or anybody for that matter - would show me a direct quote where any of the other drivers have said anything other on this when asked that 'it is good for the show/sport', the beer's on me.(Bailey's or soda pop for you) So far, no active driver has expressed his profound love for these tyres. Many of you quote Webbo as saying it is fine. But he started his comment with "of course we all would want ... or sthing to that extent. So saying that MS is making himself look foolish is kind of very dumb, sorry. If there is somebody on the grid at all to make a comment on a tyre, than it is him. He drove on them all, and won on them all. (uhmm, ok, not Michelin)

saying that what you see is enjoyable for various, self imposed reasons, is ok. It is enjoyable for a while. But artificial suspense will soon wear itself out, and it will become a farce. For god's sake, its frigging tyres, should not be more important than the car and the driver.


Agreed.

So far we have heard:

1) MS is the only one complaining

2) MS is whining

3) MS was not complaining when Bridgestone provided his tyres

4) MS should try to beat Rosberg

What we have not heard from those anti-MS individuals is a commentary on what Pirelli is doing.

This is what Paul Hembery is saying...

Pirelli's motorsport director Paul Hembery believes that path will ensure that teams are kept on their toes in working out how best to execute the grand prix - which should in turn help produce a good race.

"We've nominated the soft and hard tyre in order to highlight performance differences that will create a different challenge for the teams, showcasing both the speed and durability of our products," he said.

"There is a whole step in between our two nominations for the first time this year and this should allow the teams to come up with a number of different tyre strategies that could make a big difference to the final outcome.

"With many teams having expanded their knowledge of our tyre range and tested new components at Mugello, we're expecting a closely-fought Spanish Grand Prix - and maybe even the fifth different winner in five races."


Some questions.....

Who told Pirelli that it is their job to keep teams "on their toes"? It was not the FIA..... They told them to increase tyre degradation. So that which was gleaned in previous races is now irrelevant because Pirelli is PURPOSELY throwing curveballs at teams.

Showcasing the SPEED and DURABILITY of your tyres? One tyre is quick..... the other is durable...... None are quick and durable.

Who told Pirelli to be concerned with the final outcome? It was not the FIA.... They told you once again to increase tyre degradation.

Why is Pirelli looking forward to a 5th winner? Does that mean that they want 20 different winners this season? I want MS to win..... Not like this.....

Some are mentioning that tyre management is nothing new...... It isn't. MS drove with Goodyears and Bridgestones, and now Pirelli's.... What Senna and Prost and Clark etc.... did not have to worry about is a tyre company dicking around and throwing curveballs BY THEIR OWN ADMISSION to the teams.

MS is not saying anything radical. He just has the balls to speak his mind because he is bigger that Pirelli and has 7 WDCs already.

It is just too bad that some are shooting the messenger....



#19192 654321

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 20:33

keep pounding'em Mike

i especially loved the "raw eggs" comparison....hattori hanzo sword precision from Michael(as usual..whatelse is new)

#19193 puxanando

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 21:11

Fake Charlie Whiting ‏ @charlie_whiting
Oh, Michael. Britney's win was "lucky" and your fail to finish was "unlucky". And driving on raw eggs? Really?


:lol:

VIDEO...driving on "eggs"

Edited by puxanando, 08 May 2012 - 21:17.


#19194 Schumacher7

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 21:29

What does it even mean driving on raw eggs anyway, as opposed to driving on cooked eggs. :L Whats so special about raw ones, I can't imagine there's much difference between the two gripwise.

#19195 spacekid

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 21:37

What does it even mean driving on raw eggs anyway, as opposed to driving on cooked eggs. :L Whats so special about raw ones, I can't imagine there's much difference between the two gripwise.


Does he mean its like walking on egg shells? :cat:

#19196 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 22:12

Sorry mate but they are not paid to entertain you. They are paid to deliver results and promote the brand they represent. It is responsibility of Bernie & Co to make that process somehow entertaining.


Sorry bud, they are paid to entertain us and keep us watching so we, en masse, can buy whatever shit they're selling in the aggregate.

Bernie, CCV Partners and every stakeholder in F1 wants tv numbers up, not down.

Euroland is absolutely going down the shitter economically (left with probably 6 or 7 races a year in due time) and China is slowing in terms of economic growth. Mercedes rumoured to be pulling out of F1 a few weeks ago (I don't believe it...but it WAS rumoured). The Global economy isn't as robust as it used to be in the mid 00s and you don't see Audi or Ford or whoever dying to enter F1, do you?

All these firms have left is tv numbers and if you think "entertainment" doesn't matter, then you're economically naive.

As per "delivering results" (your words, not mine), well, Michael hasn't delivered any and is still getting paid 30 Million a season.

He's there to entertain a global audience and, in doing so, promote Mercedes brand as a competitive entrant in Formula One. Mercedes is paying him 30 Million a year to drive the bloody car effectively and he's been paid 90 Million over three years to deliver, to date, zero f***ing podiums.

The only thing that will keep tv numbers up is entertaining races, not the processional pieces of shit we used to get at Bahrain year after year (until this year).

Cheers, mate. :wave:

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 08 May 2012 - 22:20.


#19197 spacekid

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 22:17

The phrase 'what are you really angry about?' springs to mind.

All this because a racing driver doesn't like that his tyres degrade rapidly if pushed?

#19198 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 22:20

I'm not angry.

I'm making observations.

:)

Schuey doesn't have to opt for the strategy that entails "nursing tyres while going relatively fast";

He can go "flat out using all the tyres at his disposal"

He can make one extra stop than everyone else and go balls out on them more than the other drivers on fewer stops...OR...he can use up all the harder tyres and go balls out on them while others are nursing Options...OR...he can leave Formula One and let di Resta or Hulkenberg or another very good driver who already has wins under his belt (like Hamilton (as a remote possibility) or Raikkonen (as another possibility) have a shot at his seat.

It's a free world.

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 08 May 2012 - 22:28.


#19199 rtech

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 22:21

Make the best with what you have Michael , you did it for years with Ferrari i,m sure you can do it again.


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#19200 jbarokF1

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 22:24

Sorry bud, they are paid to entertain us and keep us watching so we, en masse, can buy whatever shit they're selling in the aggregate.

Bernie, CCV Partners and every stakeholder in F1 wants tv numbers up, not down.

Euroland is absolutely going down the shitter economically (left with probably 6 or 7 races a year in due time) and China is slowing in terms of economic growth. Mercedes rumoured to be pulling out of F1 a few weeks ago (I don't believe it...but it WAS rumoured). The Global economy isn't as robust as it used to be in the mid 00s and you don't see Audi or Ford or whoever dying to enter F1, do you?

All these firms have left is tv numbers and if you think "entertainment" doesn't matter, then you're economically naive.

As per "delivering results" (your words, not mine), well, Michael hasn't delivered any and is still getting paid 30 Million a season.

He's there to entertain a global audience and, in doing so, promote Mercedes brand as a competitive entrant in Formula One. Mercedes is paying him 30 Million a year to drive the bloody car effectively and he's been paid 90 Million over three years to deliver, to date, zero f***ing podiums.

The only thing that will keep tv numbers up is entertaining races, not the processional pieces of shit we used to get at Bahrain year after year (until this year).

Cheers, mate. :wave:


:up: