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#19251 SenorSjon

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 13:51

I think that is a low score. When you hear the WWF-adopters around here, Pirelli should be at 80% in favor or so, especially since they are the new kid on the block.

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#19252 MightyMoose

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 13:53

So it was 57% in favour of Pirelli's line, all option counted together, on F1 fanatic.uk. Not really that much different than on the BB here with 53,50%, but the trend is clear - people enjoy it more than they don't enjoy it, and Martin Whitmarsh obviously has a point.

It's up to Schumacher now to do the talking on the track.

Whitmarsh was the originator of asking Pirelli for even more 'challenging' tires this season, he's not going to say a negative word now. Just like they - McLaren - kept quiet for obvious reasons about Bahrain.

I'd love for MS to have a great race at Barcelona and then say "Yeah, great race, still shitty tires", what on earth would people like you say then?????? Probably say how ungrateful he is etc etc etc.

I think it's quite clear 2010 Bridgestones were too durable - except in Canada, which let's not forget was the inspiration for the teams to say to Pirelli "make tires this way so we have races similar to Canada 2010". So given the 2 options, I'd choose Pirelli 2012 options because at least the racing has some "unknowns" to it, but am I happy with it? Nope, it's flawed and needs to be addressed to get a better balance. I'd prefer a situation where a soft is 0.5 secs per lap quicker, but will last 15-18 laps.... if you push it hard. So in a 60 lap race, let's say a 2 stopper Soft, Soft, Hard vs a 3 stopper on Soft, Soft, Hard, Soft could see the 3 stopped trying to close down the gap in the last 10 laps as the Hards reach the end of their lifespan.


#19253 Sakae

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 13:59

Some people speak with both ends of their bodies. Whitmarsh gets involved (from all people), and then he says "we didn't get them into operating window in Bahrain". Well, that's the point, FFS. This viewer is not interested in your stupid engineering experiments; what I want to see is tires in their best condition, Hamilton and Button not whining, talking (as usually) big about victory is ours, and then having Seb and Michael beating snout out of them. I am sick and tired of Hembery anyone else who is "improving show"; well they did not by leaving Mcdonald out of fight.

Edited by Sakae, 09 May 2012 - 14:03.


#19254 aditya-now

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 14:19

I'd love for MS to have a great race at Barcelona and then say "Yeah, great race, still shitty tires", what on earth would people like you say then?????? Probably say how ungrateful he is etc etc etc.


MightyMoose, here you are mistaken: if Michael wins in Barca I will say "Great!" and the whole paddock will be celebrating! Remember Barrichello's first victory in 2009? That kind of feeling would arise, not only in me.

If Michael then would say "But the tires are shitty!" I would say "at least he is consistent in what he says!".




#19255 carbonfibre

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 18:14

That people even question if Michael knows what he is talking about. He has been in F1 for so long and rode with so many different tyres im pretty sure he knows what is talking about. It's just sad that the tyres prefent drivers from going at it 100%. Sure it's nice that you have a lot of different winners etc but what is it worth if it's artificial?

#19256 Pits

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 19:54

So it was 57% in favour of Pirelli's line, all option counted together, on F1 fanatic.uk. Not really that much different than on the BB here with 53,50%, but the trend is clear - people enjoy it more than they don't enjoy it, and Martin Whitmarsh obviously has a point.

It's up to Schumacher now to do the talking on the track.



Well if you check the poll on F1Fanatic it only has about 325 votes. If you check the james Allen Poll about the same subject, you will see a 46% in favor of Schumacher and only 33% against Schumacher, this after more than 4000 votes. I think that is a better reflection of the general oppinion, fan's don't like it eather. :wave:

Edit*

over 4,000 fans voted in our poll and 46% agreed with Schumacher, with 33% disagreeing


Edited by Pits, 09 May 2012 - 20:03.


#19257 jj2728

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 20:37

i loved the days when a driver could do qualifying lap after qualifying lap..."hey Michael, we need you to make up .... seconds in 16 laps" - "ok".... anyone remember Hungary 1998


Interesting that you should bring this up. I was just looking through the October 1998 edition of MotorSport and Simon Taylor's 'Modern Times' article summed up nicely the paradox that is Michael Schumacher:

HUNGARY -After the leading Mclarens made their second stops, with Hakkinen already troubled by a handling problem that would drop him to sixth, the Ferrari pit crew did their calculations, and then techinical director Ross Brawn got on the radio to Schumacher, 'You've got 19 laps to build up a 25 second lead.' From the constricted heat and noise of the F300's cockpit came back the clipped message: 'I'll do my best'. Schumacher's best is, of course, better than anything. For the next 20 minutes he drove as well as he has ever driven. At one point the car got away from him on the long third-gear right-hander onto the main straight, and snapped sideways across the grass, but miraculously he gathered it up again. When with 15 laps to go, he came in for his last splash of fuel, his lead over Coulthard was 29 seconds. The pitstop took 7.7 seconds - good but not great by Ferrari standards - and he rejoined the race still in the lead. The job was done."

SPA - "David Coulthard - he, of all of the F1 drivers - would never under any circumstances, deliberately endanger another driver's life, let alone his as well. Schumacher had an unthreatened lead of over half a minute at the time of the accident and, with Hakkinen out of the race and visibility treacherously poor, had every reason to lap slower cars with extreme care. Yet, a couple of laps earlier, he almost hit Diniz under similar circumstances. Best driver in the world he may be, but his uncontrolled rage in the pits and his verbal attack on Coulthard were an embarrassing and belittling display which left him and motor racing, poorer - as do his and Ferrari's insinuations that there was more to this incident that met the eye. One might guess that, consciously or subconsciously, he felt foolish for having thrown away 10 points when the championship was finely poised, and his automatic reaction was to attack. As Damon Hill says, Blaming others is a tactic Michael uses when he has made a mistake, targeting an innocent party to deflect from his own error."


#19258 tifosi4life

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 21:15

SPA - "David Coulthard - he, of all of the F1 drivers - would never under any circumstances, deliberately endanger another driver's life, let alone his as well. Schumacher had an unthreatened lead of over half a minute at the time of the accident and, with Hakkinen out of the race and visibility treacherously poor, had every reason to lap slower cars with extreme care. Yet, a couple of laps earlier, he almost hit Diniz under similar circumstances. Best driver in the world he may be, but his uncontrolled rage in the pits and his verbal attack on Coulthard were an embarrassing and belittling display which left him and motor racing, poorer - as do his and Ferrari's insinuations that there was more to this incident that met the eye. One might guess that, consciously or subconsciously, he felt foolish for having thrown away 10 points when the championship was finely poised, and his automatic reaction was to attack. As Damon Hill says, Blaming others is a tactic Michael uses when he has made a mistake, targeting an innocent party to deflect from his own error."


sorry, but it seams DC saw things a little differently after some time had passed:

At Spa in 1998, Schumacher's Ferrari ploughed into Coulthard's car in heavy spray while the German was leading and trying to lap Coulthard. The Scot vehemently denied he had braked early at the time.

"I'm not doing a Fernando-beating thing," Coulthard said. "But I realised on reflection ... when Michael ran into the back of me, his reaction was that I'd brake tested him or tried to kill him and all that sort of thing.

"The stewards looked at the data and I hadn't braked, so it was just all brushed under the carpet. The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now..."


DC "Crash was my fault"

Edited by tifosi4life, 09 May 2012 - 21:19.


#19259 Massa_f1

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 21:35

sorry, but it seams DC saw things a little differently after some time had passed:

At Spa in 1998, Schumacher's Ferrari ploughed into Coulthard's car in heavy spray while the German was leading and trying to lap Coulthard. The Scot vehemently denied he had braked early at the time.

"I'm not doing a Fernando-beating thing," Coulthard said. "But I realised on reflection ... when Michael ran into the back of me, his reaction was that I'd brake tested him or tried to kill him and all that sort of thing.

"The stewards looked at the data and I hadn't braked, so it was just all brushed under the carpet. The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now..."


DC "Crash was my fault"


If a driver did that now it would be drive through penalty. No question. Drivers get angry. I am sure Schumacher regrets loosing his cool so much. Things happen in the heat of the moment.

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#19260 jj2728

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 21:36

sorry, but it seams DC saw things a little differently after some time had passed:

At Spa in 1998, Schumacher's Ferrari ploughed into Coulthard's car in heavy spray while the German was leading and trying to lap Coulthard. The Scot vehemently denied he had braked early at the time.

"I'm not doing a Fernando-beating thing," Coulthard said. "But I realised on reflection ... when Michael ran into the back of me, his reaction was that I'd brake tested him or tried to kill him and all that sort of thing.

"The stewards looked at the data and I hadn't braked, so it was just all brushed under the carpet. The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now..."


DC "Crash was my fault"



No need to apologize.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and Coulthard admitted that his inexperience led to him lifting, but it was not a deliberate attempt to punt Schumacher off.

#19261 Raelene

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 01:05

Shaun

I think you might be right...

I'm still waiting for replies as to how MSC has blamed the tyres for his non results this year , how he hasn't handled the tyres, and how he could have done better



#19262 ali_M

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 02:25

You'll not see anything convincing on those questions since there's no genuine source. It's all contrived.

I was just watching a Gilles Villeneuve documentary and it was interesting the recap on ground effect technology. Gilles complained that this tech that was available to most of the teams, BTW, took away from the challenge with racing because the car was simply glued to the road through the corners. The driver's skill wasn't factoring much anymore which took away from the essence of the competition among drivers. It took a fight led by Villeneuve to have the regulations changed to outlaw the technology since it was creating quite the spectacle. Of course, not all the drivers were backing the fight (driver skill being less of a differentiator with such technology in force).

Sounding familiar, doesn't it? Schumi... the racer... not feeling challenged with the current tyre situation that's the same for everyone and is supposed to spice up the racing. With the current corporate and political climate, it's difficult to know which drivers feel the same way. What a sad situation really.

Edited by ali_M, 10 May 2012 - 02:28.


#19263 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 02:30

Ok. I've deleted some posts.

This flaming, trolling obsession & counter-attack philosophy is now done & dusted.

The person who regurgitated the observation(s) about Monaco 2006 is trolling, the person who backed you up is continuing to troll. The ones who attacked the trolls are just as guilty of derailing the thread & the final person who made the comment about buried idols should consider themselves lucky it was me who saw this thread.

Enough is enough, if you can't be in this thread & behave, maybe you ought not to be on this forum AT ALL.

For the last time, if someone trolls, report them. They will be dealt with. Responding just muddies the waters & makes it near impossible for us (Moderators) to do our jobs. If this continues, I guarantee some of you will be 'sitting on the bench' or if you prefer 'relegated to Friday Test Status'.... namely you will not be posting here for a considerable period of time.

Frankly I am now at the point where if multiple people get to sit on the sidelines quietly, I don't care. If that is what it takes to get everyone behaving like sensible adults, then so be it, but the results may not be pretty.

Please do not make me, or any other moderator, press those buttons.

Thanks.

#19264 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 03:26

No need to apologize.
Hindsight is always 20/20 and Coulthard admitted that his inexperience led to him lifting, but it was not a deliberate attempt to punt Schumacher off.


He probably didn't want to crash on purpose. But he certainly held him up on purpose (which was a catalyst for the crash).

What DC did is just as worse as anything Michael ever did. Hence the whole hypocrisy about Michael's driving, people remembering what Michael did and always forgetting what was done to him.

And to blame Michael for anything at Spa is hilariously stupid.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 May 2012 - 04:05.


#19265 Raelene

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 03:29

the fact that they sent him out after his issues...shows they wanted to hold MSC up. I gree, he didn't want to crash, but he certainly wanted to hold him up.

#19266 MightyMoose

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:02

I think anyone with the slightest knowledge of F1 knew that DC was responsible for the crash, we can clearly see he was slightly off the racing line, but no way near enough... and it was clear he'd eased off. MS had zero chance of avoiding him.

Not many people stopped to think about the potential for a Pironi type crash there.... as it was we got a Senna into the arse of Brundle @ Adelaide 1989 repeat. sadly without the epic camera shot!

I don't blame MS for being extremely pissed off and agitated afterwards. For DC to come forward and admit his error was reasonable, it was based upon him being unceremoniously brake-tested off the track at the Nurburgring by a Mr Alonso though.

#19267 tifosi4life

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 04:23

I also felt DC was sent back out to slow down MS... but not much more. I went to the next GP, Monza! I remember the all tension over the Spa accident and the rumors that David was worried about fan backlash. But we had the last laugh, a Ferrari one-two at Monza. Best GP ever.

#19268 RacingReporter

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 09:19

He probably didn't want to crash on purpose. But he certainly held him up on purpose (which was a catalyst for the crash).

What DC did is just as worse as anything Michael ever did. Hence the whole hypocrisy about Michael's driving, people remembering what Michael did and always forgetting what was done to him.

And to blame Michael for anything at Spa is hilariously stupid.

An annotation I'd like to add: lifting in an F1 car is just like putting the brakes on in a normal car. If a car is at (pretty much) max speed behind it, then you get a crash as both Schumacher in 98 behind DC and Coulthard in 03 found out with a lifting++ Alonso.



#19269 Boing 2

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:19

Just to be clear, this is just 4 years after F1 saw two driver deaths and two fractured necks (Alesi-Lehto) and just 3 years after DC's own team mate nearly died from head injuries and you're really suggesting that DC deliberately caused a car to rear-end him at high speed? not just that but he risked being a quadraplegic to help his team mate (who he already felt was being favoured in the team) to win a world title?

Also, on a purely practical level, if Schumacher couldn't see DC because of the spray despite being behind him and looking right at him, how the hell did DC see Schumacher through the same spray, whilst looking in his tiny little rear view mirrors and driving at his speed?

MS had a clear dry track at Jerez and couldn't time his attack properly to take out Jaques but DC can do it perfectly in blind spray? Unlikely.

Coulthard was a clean driver his entire career, you can argue that he should have gone left instead of right, or that Schumacher shouldn't have been flying with a 30 second gap and a pace advantage over the 2nd place guy. You can argue about drivers making bad judgement calls but to call it a deliberate accident is just idiocy.

#19270 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:32

But did he hold him up on purpose? And did that ultimately cause the accident?

Sadly, yes.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 May 2012 - 10:33.


#19271 pUs

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:42

Just to be clear, this is just 4 years after F1 saw two driver deaths and two fractured necks (Alesi-Lehto) and just 3 years after DC's own team mate nearly died from head injuries and you're really suggesting that DC deliberately caused a car to rear-end him at high speed? not just that but he risked being a quadraplegic to help his team mate (who he already felt was being favoured in the team) to win a world title?

Also, on a purely practical level, if Schumacher couldn't see DC because of the spray despite being behind him and looking right at him, how the hell did DC see Schumacher through the same spray, whilst looking in his tiny little rear view mirrors and driving at his speed?

MS had a clear dry track at Jerez and couldn't time his attack properly to take out Jaques but DC can do it perfectly in blind spray? Unlikely.

Coulthard was a clean driver his entire career, you can argue that he should have gone left instead of right, or that Schumacher shouldn't have been flying with a 30 second gap and a pace advantage over the 2nd place guy. You can argue about drivers making bad judgement calls but to call it a deliberate accident is just idiocy.


But what on earth is DC himself referring to then? "Wouldn't do it ever again"... "it" ? According to you, he did nothing wrong?

#19272 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:45

Also, on a purely practical level, if Schumacher couldn't see DC because of the spray despite being behind him and looking right at him, how the hell did DC see Schumacher through the same spray, whilst looking in his tiny little rear view mirrors and driving at his speed?

On a purely practical level - team radio! I guess you missed this from last page:
http://www.smh.com.a...7430084085.html

The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now.



#19273 Boing 2

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:56

But what on earth is DC himself referring to then? "Wouldn't do it ever again"... "it" ? According to you, he did nothing wrong?

I didn't say he did nothing wrong, I said he didn't deliberately cause an accident. I quite clearly said you can argue about the drivers judgement calls.

Coulthard was a clean driver his entire career, you can argue that he should have gone left instead of right, or that Schumacher shouldn't have been flying with a 30 second gap and a pace advantage over the 2nd place guy. You can argue about drivers making bad judgement calls but to call it a deliberate accident is just idiocy.


You ask what DC is referring to but strangely, the part where he explains very clearly what he's referring to is the part you remove from your quote.....

"The stewards looked at the data and I hadn't braked, so it was just all brushed under the carpet. The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now..."


He's saying that you shouldn't lift suddenly in zero visibility with a car anywhere near you.

#19274 Boing 2

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:05

On a purely practical level - team radio! I guess you missed this from last page:
http://www.smh.com.a...7430084085.html


Really? you think the split second timing required to dummy a driver into hitting you can be co-ordinated blindly via radio? you realise that even if the team was watching a TV feed of DC at the time, there's a delay in that feed that is measured in seconds and that Spa is notorious for having poor radio reception. By the time the team saw MS pull up to DC the accident had already happened.

As I said, Schumacher himself was unable to take out Villeneve cleanly with a clear view of his target, the notion that a better attempt could be co-ordinated blindly, via a dodgy radio feed from a team watching a delayed tv feed is laughable.

Edited by Boing 2, 10 May 2012 - 11:05.


#19275 ali_M

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:06

On a purely practical level - team radio! I guess you missed this from last page:
http://www.smh.com.a...7430084085.html


You're both right. More of that article aught to be quoted. Let me do the honours:

"The stewards looked at the data and I hadn't braked, so it was just all brushed under the carpet. The reality is that I lifted to let him pass me, but I lifted in heavy spray on the racing line. You should never do that. I would never do that now.

"In 1998, I didn't have the experience and the knowledge, and I had never had someone run into the back of me.

"The minute I knew he was there, and I was told by the team that he was and was trying to allow him to pass me, I should have made a smarter decision."

Coulthard said he had learnt from the experience and that drivers such as Alonso would have to learn as well.

"The risk is that it could have been a very dangerous accident for Michael and Nurburgring could have been a very dangerous accident for me," he said.

"Eventually, somewhere down the line, eight or 10 years from now, a young guy will come in and it will happen to Fernando and then he will feel slightly different about it."


DC couldn't see Michael to time the collision. He lifted in the race line when visibility was very poor. He admits his error in judgement at the time. His admission of an error causing an accident is NOT and admission of malevolence.

#19276 hammibal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:24

You'll not see anything convincing on those questions since there's no genuine source. It's all contrived.

I was just watching a Gilles Villeneuve documentary and it was interesting the recap on ground effect technology. Gilles complained that this tech that was available to most of the teams, BTW, took away from the challenge with racing because the car was simply glued to the road through the corners. The driver's skill wasn't factoring much anymore which took away from the essence of the competition among drivers. It took a fight led by Villeneuve to have the regulations changed to outlaw the technology since it was creating quite the spectacle. Of course, not all the drivers were backing the fight (driver skill being less of a differentiator with such technology in force).

Sounding familiar, doesn't it? Schumi... the racer... not feeling challenged with the current tyre situation that's the same for everyone and is supposed to spice up the racing. With the current corporate and political climate, it's difficult to know which drivers feel the same way. What a sad situation really.

I think you got it wrong about Schumacher, he campaigned for keeping TC on safety grounds, he actually loved driver aids and the Ferrari used a lot of TC, Barrichello was surprised how little TC Honda used after leaving Ferrari

He probably didn't want to crash on purpose. But he certainly held him up on purpose (which was a catalyst for the crash).

What DC did is just as worse as anything Michael ever did. Hence the whole hypocrisy about Michael's driving, people remembering what Michael did and always forgetting what was done to him.

And to blame Michael for anything at Spa is hilariously stupid.



But what on earth is DC himself referring to then? "Wouldn't do it ever again"... "it" ? According to you, he did nothing wrong?

DC states that his only intention was to let Schumacher by, he thought lifting would help in the matter, however lifting on the racing line in spray was in hindsight not the best thing to do and he he would never do that again, to suggest that DC did it purpose to disadvantage Schumacher is ridiculous

#19277 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:29

And why are you quoting me? I believe he didn't crash on purpose.

#19278 ali_M

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:41

I think you got it wrong about Schumacher, he campaigned for keeping TC on safety grounds, he actually loved driver aids and the Ferrari used a lot of TC, Barrichello was surprised how little TC Honda used after leaving Ferrari


Do we have to be so black and white in our POV? It doesn't work that way. How can it? :well:

We either comment on a specific issue or have an overall picture of an individual/sport/etc. You can't use one incident or piece of advocacy on the part of Schumacher to make an overall impression. Maybe you should find out why exactly he advocated traction control and now he's not happy with the current tyres??

Additionally, I'm not at all saying that Villeneuve and Schumacher are exactly the same. They're both racers with a will to win and in a satisfying way. They both have their different approaches in different eras and as different men. However, their essence and spirit are quite similar.

Edited by ali_M, 10 May 2012 - 11:44.


#19279 spacekid

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:59

Just to be clear, this is just 4 years after F1 saw two driver deaths and two fractured necks (Alesi-Lehto) and just 3 years after DC's own team mate nearly died from head injuries and you're really suggesting that DC deliberately caused a car to rear-end him at high speed? not just that but he risked being a quadraplegic to help his team mate (who he already felt was being favoured in the team) to win a world title?

Also, on a purely practical level, if Schumacher couldn't see DC because of the spray despite being behind him and looking right at him, how the hell did DC see Schumacher through the same spray, whilst looking in his tiny little rear view mirrors and driving at his speed?

MS had a clear dry track at Jerez and couldn't time his attack properly to take out Jaques but DC can do it perfectly in blind spray? Unlikely.

Coulthard was a clean driver his entire career, you can argue that he should have gone left instead of right, or that Schumacher shouldn't have been flying with a 30 second gap and a pace advantage over the 2nd place guy. You can argue about drivers making bad judgement calls but to call it a deliberate accident is just idiocy.


No one has suggested that at all, boing. If they have please directly quote them. What people have said is that DC lifted on the racing line which was a stupid mistake. It could have been a much nastier crash than it was, and Schumi was angry in the heat of the moment.

DC admitted he made an error, both he and Michael can joke about it now, so why are you still so angry about it?

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#19280 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:03

Really? you think the split second timing required to dummy a driver into hitting you can be co-ordinated blindly via radio? you realise that even if the team was watching a TV feed of DC at the time, there's a delay in that feed that is measured in seconds and that Spa is notorious for having poor radio reception. By the time the team saw MS pull up to DC the accident had already happened.

As I said, Schumacher himself was unable to take out Villeneve cleanly with a clear view of his target, the notion that a better attempt could be co-ordinated blindly, via a dodgy radio feed from a team watching a delayed tv feed is laughable.

Who is talking about seconds here, DC for sure know that MS is coming behind him. Maybe 1-2 laps before. He said that he was trying to give him space to pass, so he clearly knew in that moment that MS is behind him.


#19281 hammibal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:28

And why are you quoting me? I believe he didn't crash on purpose.

But you said he tried to hold him up on purpose

Do we have to be so black and white in our POV? It doesn't work that way. How can it? :well:

We either comment on a specific issue or have an overall picture of an individual/sport/etc. You can't use one incident or piece of advocacy on the part of Schumacher to make an overall impression. Maybe you should find out why exactly he advocated traction control and now he's not happy with the current tyres??

Additionally, I'm not at all saying that Villeneuve and Schumacher are exactly the same. They're both racers with a will to win and in a satisfying way. They both have their different approaches in different eras and as different men. However, their essence and spirit are quite similar.

I would think that Schumacher and Villenueve are perhaps polar opposites

Edited by hammibal, 10 May 2012 - 12:29.


#19282 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:32

But you said he tried to hold him up on purpose


Of course he held him up on purpose before the accident.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 May 2012 - 12:33.


#19283 hammibal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:33

Of course he held him up on purpose before the accident.

He did that by lifting off so he could be lapped? :confused:

#19284 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:36

He did that by lifting off so he could be lapped? :confused:


When did Michael catch DC and when did the accident happen? Don't pretend you don't understand.

#19285 genespleen

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:41

When did Michael catch DC and when did the accident happen? Don't pretend you don't understand.


Tiresome. Can you two take this private dispute to a private place?

#19286 SparkPlug

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:45

How and why did we reach from Schumacher's comments about Pirelli to his crash at Spa 1998 ? :D

#19287 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:46

Tiresome. Can you two take this private dispute to a private place?



Why? Again, when someone even tries to point out that Michael was on the receiving end of questionable things his "fans" come to defend the indefensible.

The whole discussion started when someone was blaming Michael for Spa.

Heck, we should only talk about 94, 97 and Monaco 06. That would be so much fun.

Edited by Diablobb81, 10 May 2012 - 12:47.


#19288 ali_M

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:50

I would think that Schumacher and Villenueve are perhaps polar opposites


They had very different approaches, yes. I very much agree with this.

However, their essence.... two racers who focus/ed on racing and winning.

#19289 schubacca

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 13:21

Shaun

I think you might be right...

I'm still waiting for replies as to how MSC has blamed the tyres for his non results this year , how he hasn't handled the tyres, and how he could have done better


They cannot give any....

All that they can give is a thinly-veiled gleeful comment on how he is not winning....

The facts are that MS is driving better than he has done in 2010 and 2011.

His performances are on par with his teammate.

I really think that Pirelli and Hembery responding to MS's criticism by getting childishly defensive has created an even greater awareness about the issue.



#19290 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 14:42

Shaun

I think you might be right...

I'm still waiting for replies as to how MSC has blamed the tyres for his non results this year , how he hasn't handled the tyres, and how he could have done better



Raelene, I would answer this way - he is using the tire issue as a diversion and hasn't blamed them outright but at the same time it is leading the discussion away from the fact that his season thus far has been very disappointing. Schumacher would very much rather feild questions about the tires and Pirelli than about how he is yet again being beaten by Rosberg who now has Mercedes first win.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 10 May 2012 - 14:44.


#19291 ivand911

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 14:48

Raelene, I would answer this way - he is using the tire issue as a diversion and hasn't blamed them outright but at the same time it is leading the discussion away from the fact that his season thus far has been very disappointing. Schumacher would very much rather feild questions about the tires and Pirelli than about how he is yet again being beaten by Rosberg who now has Mercedes first win.

Maybe because of his bad luck in all 4 races? What else could be?

Posted Image
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Edited by ivand911, 10 May 2012 - 14:56.


#19292 exmayol

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 14:56

Raelene, I would answer this way - he is using the tire issue as a diversion and hasn't blamed them outright but at the same time it is leading the discussion away from the fact that his season thus far has been very disappointing. Schumacher would very much rather feild questions about the tires and Pirelli than about how he is yet again being beaten by Rosberg who now has Mercedes first win.


Yes its a diversion not to remind everyone how his DRS did not work in Bahrain Q, how his wheel almost fell off in China and how his gearbox glitched out in Australia. Also a diversion from the fact that without that win and 25 extra points NR would have had 3 weekends out of 4 beaten by a 43 year old dude...

#19293 schubacca

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:00

Maybe because of his bad luck in all 4 races? What else could be?


I think that any objective fan can see that MS is driving better this year than in 2010 and 2011.

If he wanted a diversion to his supposedly deficiencies he could have used a variety of more solid material.

He could have blamed:

1) His transmission in Australia

2) His pit crew in China

3) His DRS failing in Bahrain

He did not do any of these things because he is a professional.

Some people need a reminder how he thanked Ferrari after his engine let go in Japan 06....

MS does not need scapegoats.

What MS is saying with the Pirellis is that they are not conducive to the racing that he has partaken in for close to 20 years.


#19294 hammibal

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:21

When did Michael catch DC and when did the accident happen? Don't pretend you don't understand.

I cant possibly remember the event from so far back but i would take DC's word for it, afterall he has admitted guilt years after and he had no reason to come forward

They had very different approaches, yes. I very much agree with this.

However, their essence.... two racers who focus/ed on racing and winning.

One focused on doing it in a fair and sporting manner

Yes its a diversion not to remind everyone how his DRS did not work in Bahrain Q, how his wheel almost fell off in China and how his gearbox glitched out in Australia. Also a diversion from the fact that without that win and 25 extra points NR would have had 3 weekends out of 4 beaten by a 43 year old dude...

You need to run it past me how you know for a fact that Schumacher would have beat Rosberg last time out

#19295 Shambolic

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 15:25

Raelene, I would answer this way - he is using the tire issue as a diversion and hasn't blamed them outright but at the same time it is leading the discussion away from the fact that his season thus far has been very disappointing. Schumacher would very much rather feild questions about the tires and Pirelli than about how he is yet again being beaten by Rosberg who now has Mercedes first win.


Maybe instead of pointing out the (obvious) problems with the tyres, and how they are playing maybe too large a part in the races thus far (fine if you like "the show", not so good if you like to see a sporting contest), he should have lambasted his mechanics for his failed gearbox, stuck DRS, and farcical pit stop wheelnut issue? And perhaps made comment on how he got punted off by an over enthusiasrtic and clumsy Lotus driver in the one weekend he didn't have technical troubles outside his control.

Do you really think Schumacher feels a need to distract people from his "disappointing" season, when to date he has looked equal or better than his team mate in 75% of the races, and would most likely have been a not that distant second in the other?

The ridicule and scorn being poured on his remarks seem to be because there's a faction that want to villify the person making them, rather than the remarks themselves. But then, there's always some who will refuse the message becasue of their own subjective grudge against the messenger.

#19296 Ohwell

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 16:46

:up: :up: :up:

:up:

#19297 Massa_f1

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 17:39

Raelene, I would answer this way - he is using the tire issue as a diversion and hasn't blamed them outright but at the same time it is leading the discussion away from the fact that his season thus far has been very disappointing. Schumacher would very much rather feild questions about the tires and Pirelli than about how he is yet again being beaten by Rosberg who now has Mercedes first win.


You do watch F1 right? Then you will surely know that apart from his 10th place finish in Bahrain everything else has been out of his own control. It has been a disappointing start the season for him yes. Is that is own fault. No

#19298 654321

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 18:22

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MS certainly looks in amazing shape at 43,but i wonder if those huge guns are casing him to weigh a tad more then he needs to..2kilos on each side ,maybe?

#19299 windwaves

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 18:48

did you guys saw what Barrichello is now saying about the 2002 Austrian GP when he was forced to let MS win ?

What a gigantic loser, POS. I mean, I don't get it when drivers fail to understand they are just not up there when it's so hugely obvious. What he is doing now is just an insult to sportsmanship and himself.

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#19300 exmayol

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 18:49

You need to run it past me how you know for a fact that Schumacher would have beat Rosberg last time out

Not until you care to explain how MS is being beaten by NR.