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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#19501 MCh000

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:31

Looked like Senna was giving outside and Michael was going to the left, but suddenly Senna decided to move to left and Michael was trying to move to the right but too late.

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#19502 RedBaron

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:31

Senna without any double is to blame. Schumacher tried to avoid the door seemingly being closed illegally late, but ran out of time to avoid him when Senna broke extremely early.

#19503 Konsta

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:32

Senna's mistake.

Senna changed the line under braking and Schumacher was coming down with much more speed on the wings of DRS and tried to avoid Senna, but it was way too late.


Somewhat so. Senna moved twice but OTOH MS was way too late in braking.

#19504 Scotracer

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:32

5 races, 2 points.

Worse than 2010 or 2011!

#19505 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:32

5 races, 2 points.

Worse than 2010 or 2011!

Not his fault, we continue to watch because we know his performances show more.

#19506 chrisaix

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:32

Yeah, senna weaved back a little and lifted off early. Just saw it on the replay, michael wont be that mad if has a part on the accident.

#19507 eoin

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:33

Senna's mistake.

Senna changed the line under braking and Schumacher was coming down with much more speed on the wings of DRS and tried to avoid Senna, but it was way too late.


Dont think so. You can move back but you must leave enough room for the driver on the outside. The problem is that Schumacher probably thought that Senna was going to move back fully onto the racing line so went to the inside, but then realised Senna was just sticking to the centre of the track and it was too late for Schumacher to do anything about it.

5 races, 2 points.

Worse than 2010 or 2011!


And if he gets a penalty for Monaco then that's another right off.

Edited by eoin, 13 May 2012 - 12:34.


#19508 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:33

Mercedes' strengths were in the first 3 races of the season and they ballsed it up 3 times for Schumacher. I feel their advantage is now gone and Schumacher will get 'dominated' by Rosberg again who just gets on with it. No wonder MS is frustrated.

#19509 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:35

Somewhat so. Senna moved twice but OTOH MS was way too late in braking.

What was that w*nker doing out on shredded tyres?

#19510 Longtimefan

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:36

If Michael gets a penalty for Monaco I swear I'll quit watching this fiasco...




#19511 Wade

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:38

I love you Michael. I really do. I love watching the sport because of you.

BUT OMFG. Not in my whole life have I seen something like his season thus far. NOTHING. This is one for the ages. Honestly at this point, I AINT EVEN MAD. I aint even sad. This is just comical.

He's definitely not gonna renew that contract. And he'll be gone from the sport I love to watch, soon.

What a shame.

#19512 dav115

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:38

Schumacher will likely throw in the towel at the end of this year, after which I don't think I've got enough interest in this sport to carry on following it. DRS+shitty engines+shitty tyres has killed it for me.

#19513 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:39

Dont think so. You can move back but you must leave enough room for the driver on the outside. The problem is that Schumacher probably thought that Senna was going to move back fully onto the racing line so went to the inside, but then realised Senna was just sticking to the centre of the track and it was too late for Schumacher to do anything about it.


You can't change lines under braking. Schumacher couldn't avoid Senna. Schumacher didn't assume Senna will go back fully on the racing line as he clearly counted that line will be empty for him... until Senna changed his mind. By then, all Schumacher could do was to try to change line to the inside one, but it was impossible to do.

#19514 Shambolic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:40

This is what happens when you firstly don't even set a time in Q3 and thus get stuck a place or two (or more) down teh grid than you'd otherwise be, then secondly screw the strategy and end up in the pack.

Surely it was obvious Schumacher would be stuck in the Grosjean/ Senna/ Rosberg "pack" pitting when he did, especially when Rosberg was clearly traffic bound after his stop a lap earlier. New tyres are a significant advantage *if* you can actually use them - Once again strategy and quick thinking seem to be notable by their absence on the pit wall for Mercedes (also evident by starting Schumacher on softs).

The shunt looked mostly Senna's fault, as he braked very early (the closing speeds between teh two cars was really quite something) and also jinked in the braking area, as if to move left then not really doing so. Easy to misunderstand wheere he was going, but perhaps he was also correcting for the car moving under him on those worn out tyres.

Definitely *not* all Schumacher's fault and cause to once again leap around with Jordan glee, or smug DCness, but then I've come to expect no more from our good old BBC.

#19515 Massa_f1

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:42

This is his worst season ever. As a fan of his i have now had enough of him being back in the sport (to painful to watch) Guys lets be honest. What good is ever going to come of it? I think nothing.

#19516 Longtimefan

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:42

Schumacher will likely throw in the towel at the end of this year, after which I don't think I've got enough interest in this sport to carry on following it. DRS+shitty engines+shitty tyres has killed it for me.


Me too..



#19517 ivand911

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:43

I am not mad. What was that strategy? On soft after the pitstop?

#19518 Jon12345

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:44

Any replays of the incident available?

#19519 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:45

I am not mad. What was that strategy? On soft after the pitstop?

Yeah, god knows what that was about too.

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#19520 Lelouch

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:45

I am not mad. What was that strategy? On soft after the pitstop?

And to be honest i thought that mercedes' strength was gonna be their pace on hards.

Edit: about the crash i don't understand who is to blame it was plain fail.

Edited by Lelouch, 13 May 2012 - 12:47.


#19521 sniper80

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:46

Schumi really lost it, it is sad...

#19522 ivand911

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:46

Schumi really lost it, it is sad...

:rotfl:


#19523 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:47

2010-2012 wont define MS.

1991-2006 will define MS; 91 wins, 68 poles, 154 podiums and destroying the field.

Time to hang them up, you tried but you tried too hard and it didnt work out. Thanks for the memories Michael.

#19524 spacekid

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49

Bruno Senna just said he knew he was braking early and didn't want Michael to hit him under braking...

...sooo he moved back in front of Michael in the braking zone? Odd strategy.

Michaels obvisouly very flustered, he seems to think Senna is driving a Caterham!

#19525 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49

Senna putting forward an extremely convincing argument - "He umm...he ummm...he hit me."

Cool it, there is still 15 races left. He won't catch up with Rosberg in terms of points but his performances, when not impeded by the retardedness of other beings, have been good and on par.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 13 May 2012 - 12:51.


#19526 libano

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:49

MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.

#19527 dav115

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:51

2010-2012 wont define MS.

1991-2006 will define MS; 91 wins, 68 poles, 154 podiums and destroying the field.


Agreed. He could DNF every other race this season and he'll still be the greatest racing driver (if not sportsman) I've ever seen.


#19528 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:51

MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.


This is just it, he doesn't have patience. We have seen it before with the other ex GP2 drivers.

#19529 Lelouch

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:52

MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.

I think that can be said for most of the accidents he has been involved in 2011 and 2012 and that disappoints me a bit. But ofc he is the racer and i am the spectator so i don't know how it is in there.

#19530 Atonal

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:52

And to be honest i thought that mercedes' strength was gonna be their pace on hards.

Edit: about the crash i don't understand who is to blame it was plain fail.


Exactly. All weekend, the free practices and the long runs Schumacher was easily half a second faster than Rosberg on the hard tyres. He was almost 6 tenth up on him in Q1 as well when they used the hard tyre.
I am sure that they had some valid reason for choosing this strategy with all the data that they have, but it still puzzles me. I don't know but in most cases I get the feeling that they run the same strategy for both drivers irrespective of their positions.

#19531 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:53

MSC could have avoided this with a bit of patience. Such a good race up to that point, a shame.


False. Senna changed the line way too late. Senna knew Schumacher is coming with much higher speed and in the interview to the Sky his arguments were... well, hiding the fact that he changed the line too late and thus caused this incident.

#19532 Disgrace

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:54

Michael did the same to Kobayashi at Silverstone last year, just totally misjudged the speed differential when DRS/old tyres are at play. Senna did seem to move under braking but it was so minute that had Michael been clean up the inside, it would have seemed normal and nothing would have happened.

Interesting that he was so pissed though, he has taken misfortune well until now.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 12:55.


#19533 Wade

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:54

Never thought it would all come down to this. Seriously.........

#19534 dav115

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:55

Michael did the same to Kobayashi at Silverstone last year, just totally misjudged the speed differential when DRS/old tyres are at play.

That was Michael's fault though as Koba didn't go for a split second change of line under braking.

#19535 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56

Lol, patience? Grosjean was getting away and Vettel was closing in yet he was meant to tip-toe around for another lap behind a car on shredded tyres? Right...

#19536 spacekid

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56

Oh well, never mind. Thats motor racing. Michael is still driving fine at the moment, and there's 15 races left to go this year.

The back luck run will end, and there are plenty more chances to put in some good drives in 2012. Hopefully the tyres will also settle down as the season goes on as well.

#19537 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:56

60% SHUMI 40% SENNA at fault.

I did find it weird how he was coming into the corner but at the same time, Shumi should have known after being behind him for a while and who it was that he was gonna break early.

Problem is, Michael had a brain fade and approach the corner with absolutely no clue where he was gonna put his car to get through the corner. It's almost as if he closed his eyes and hoped for the best.. what the hell..

#19538 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 12:57

Lol, patience? Grosjean was getting away and Vettel was closing in yet he was meant to tip-toe around for another lap behind a car on shredded tyres? Right...


Exactly.

#19539 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:00

Maybe telemetry will say more than the images did. The gap to Senna seemed huge for quite a while and it then suddenly shrunk to nothing. Not a lot of weaving though, so I don't know.

From MSC's interview it seemed that he was a bit less convinced after seeing the images on TV, as it didn't appear as aggressive as he felt it was, but he stuck with his point of view. I just hope for no race compromising penalty in Monaco.

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#19540 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:01

Problem is, Michael had a brain fade and approach the corner with absolutely no clue where he was gonna put his car to get through the corner. It's almost as if he closed his eyes and hoped for the best.. what the hell..


Spend some more time following F1, as you clearly don't understand racing. Driver with 15+ full seasons behind him is "approaching corner without having a clue where he was going to put his car"... Case closed for you.



#19541 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:02



Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.

#19542 Lelouch

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:02

Exactly.

I agree with that after all i was really like "come on Michael you need to pass him asap" but on the other hand i was worried that the outcome won't be bad. As i said i don't who is more at fault but imo Schumi didn't play his cards very well there. Funnily enough in Singapore too he had a car with shredded tires in front of him. But well.. that's how it is.. : /

Edit: thnx for the replay DutchCruijff hadn't seen that angle. That was gay from Senna.

Edited by Lelouch, 13 May 2012 - 13:05.


#19543 Disgrace

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:03

That was Michael's fault though as Koba didn't go for a split second change of line under braking.


He also did this to Perez in Singapore last year. Personally, I've always thought Schumacher's racing craft was suspect even in his first career so I'm not surprised by these antics although the view is probably a minority one at least in this thread.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 13:04.


#19544 Lelouch

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:06

He also did this to Perez in Singapore last year. Personally, I've always thought Schumacher's racing craft was suspect even in his first career so I'm not surprised by these antics although the view is probably a minority one at least in this thread.

Ok but i hope you can see the problem with Senna's move.

#19545 Disgrace

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:09



Brain fade? Approaching the corner it's quite clear that Senna is leaning towards the inside line, naturally Schumacher is going to take the left, but for some reason Senna halfheartedly jinks to the left.


Now I've got it. Senna moved to the outside, expecting Schumacher to go up the inside like Grosjean did the previous lap as he explained. However, Schumacher had actually just committed to the outside but was spooked by Senna's supposedly evasive move, and went to the inside expecting Senna to return to the racing line which he ultimately had no intention to do.

It's a racing incident but Schumacher probably should not have committed to the outside, in Bruno's blind spot.

#19546 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:10

Spend some more time following F1, as you clearly don't understand racing. Driver with 15+ full seasons behind him is "approaching corner without having a clue where he was going to put his car"... Case closed for you.


:rotfl: 15+ full season means nothing if you're gonna come in that hot to slow corner behind a guy on old tires who's been struggling at every braking zone. Shumi has shown more bad judement in trying to get around slower cars in front then any other driver on the grid! Experience only counts if you gonna use your combined experience and sorry .. he hasn't been doing that the past 3 seasons. :rotfl:

Id like to see Schumi doing well but frankly... imagine the shit storm that would erupted if MS had been taken out like that from Senna....

#19547 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:14

Now I've got it. Senna moved to the outside, expecting Schumacher to go up the inside like Grosjean did the previous lap as he explained. However, Schumacher had actually just committed to the outside but was spooked by Senna's supposedly evasive move, and went to the inside expecting Senna to return to the racing line which he ultimately had no intention to do.

It's a racing incident but Schumacher probably should not have committed to the outside, in Bruno's blind spot.


:clap: Exactly.

#19548 Paco

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:15

Spend some more time following F1, as you clearly don't understand racing. Driver with 15+ full seasons behind him is "approaching corner without having a clue where he was going to put his car"... Case closed for you.


And what.. you've only been watching F1 for a couple of years :rotfl: Cased closed eh, good thing you're not a steward for the race today if you think MS used good judgement in that move and RUINED Senna's race because he came in hot without an effective strategy on how to get through the corner without destroying a competitor that was clearly infront and DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG!

Even Schumi in his interview pretty much acknowledged that without fully admitting blame as to attempt and avoid a penalty at the next race that messed up the approach and corner.. which is pretty much a lock that he'll get a penality.

Racing incident YES.
Avoidable contact ABSOLUTELY.
Penalty YUP.

Edited by Paco, 13 May 2012 - 13:18.


#19549 Disgrace

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:15

Ok but i hope you can see the problem with Senna's move.


He spooked himself from taking the inside line, and had effectually conceded it to Schumacher who had actually committed to the outside which inadvertently caused the crash. The problem with his move was it's weak nature which caught Schumacher off guard who didn't leave margin for error. Hopefully we won't get any penalties.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 13:16.


#19550 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 13:16

15+ full season means nothing if you're gonna come in that hot to slow corner behind a guy on old tires who's been struggling at every braking zone.


You still don't get the point, which is that Senna suddenly changed the line way too late.

But it doesn't matter anyway. :up: