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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#19651 Birelman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:52

I predict a Schumi fight back in Monaco.

I'd double check that crystal ball again...

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#19652 Lelouch

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:53

Stewards made their decision, we will not cry about it. We accept the things as they are, we will not start threads , to make it the biggest problem in the world. They better sort out the car , because only STR and new teams are behind us.

:up: :up: :up: Yes after all it's the stewards' job to decide. The real problem is MGP and the W03 after all.

#19653 scandyman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:56

The legendary comeback continues. A bit sad but really, for the sake of dignity, let's hope he bows out at the end of this year.

This year will definetely be his last. He has driven well considering his age but it is rather clear that it becomes harder and harder for him to do split second decisions which are needed in this sport. I can give Michael grade: c+ for his performances which should be fair.

#19654 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:59

I don't lie mate. I didn't say he had a 5 place penalty to piss you guys off.


I know that you normally post good info but it wasn't posted anywhere else. Thanks though.

#19655 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:59

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.


#19656 spacekid

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:00

This year will definetely be his last. He has driven well considering his age but it is rather clear that it becomes harder and harder for him to do split second decisions which are needed in this sport. I can give Michael grade: c+ for his performances which should be fair.


He was pretty decent at the start. he can still cut it, this was just a stupid racing incident. You see it happen. Lewis has had them, Vettel has had them. Neither of them are down on the reactions needed for racing. It happens sometimes.

#19657 spacekid

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.


Should Button retire also? Becuase he was having a worse weekend than Schumi when the crash happened.

#19658 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

It's just such a bloody bad streak and it's even worse knowing something like this more or less compromises one of the most exciting races on the calendar.

#19659 Massa_f1

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

Haha, well done you bought lots of merchandise.

The writing certainly isn't on the wall, you've made up your mind so I'm not going to bother debating it. But those who clearly aren't over dramatic in response to Schumacher or Mercedes results we can see it's a different story.



OK fair enough. I was just trying to show with the merchendise comment that i am not a passer by fan.

I also wont stop supporting him No matter what. I suppose everyone will have a different opinion on his return. I base mine on results. i don't know what different story other fans are picking up, but his comeback has been nowhere close to successful in my opinion.

On the plus side with all these random results we could still get a win before season ends.



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#19660 spinster

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:02

Schumacher was predominantly at fault for the crash, but I'm sick of seeing penalties given for accidents, and ones that are not the fault of one perpetrator at that.


indead mighty mistake by MS...and stop all the other conclusions..

#19661 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:02

I weep for F1.

So a clown weavering in the brake zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.

Edited by SenorSjon, 13 May 2012 - 17:04.


#19662 spinster

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:04

I weep for F1.

So a clown weavering in the break zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.


let's be honoust...How many crashes did MS already have since his comeback?

For me time for....

#19663 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:05

Now that I think about this, I reckon that if I was in a car at 300 kmph and saw the possibility of getting a wheel or two on the grass due to a more aggressive maneuver by an opponent I know to be reckless, I'd have tried for the inside lane as well.

#19664 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:08

So a clown weavering in the brake zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.


Actually seeing Schumacher on the outside was part of the crash buddy. He thought Schu settled for that line, and squeezed him leaving a car´s width on his left. Then Schumacher changed his mind and went for the inside.

I understand why Schu got scared, but had he stayed on the outside he would have been given room.

#19665 Birelman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:09

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.

Props to you, my friend! :up:

#19666 RedBaron

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:09

Car AHEAD?



Nice still shots and lines :) you should work for Sky and their Skypad.

#19667 Scotracer

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:10

Michael was just too impatient...

and Senna is an over-zealous idiot too.

#19668 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:11

Hindsight is a great thing to afford, I'm sure Schumacher would agree.

#19669 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:11

I raced my whole Life, raced some of the drivers you discuss in this forum, and I don't agree without you, so, no, anyone who understands racing doesn't see it as you do.


Oh it's the ubiquitous "I've raced and I know better than everyone else" racing forum response. Gee no one has ever seen that before :rolleyes: ...this is as straight forward as it gets, Schumacher made the mistake because Senna is running down the center of the track then suddenly veers to the left in an apparent attempt at a block right in the braking zone...if you know anything about racing (which clearly you don't, but maybe that is why you are here and not running a car) then you know that once MS applies the brakes he has limited steering input...even so...he did the best he could to turn back to the inside...

This problem was 100% created by Senna...to give MS a penalty for Senna's bonehead driving is a joke... :down: :down: :down: And sorry you have no clue if you support that penalty...

#19670 smoothcrim

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

Its also the fault of these garbage tyres.Ive never seen an F1 tyre that has an increased braking distance of 20m when worn.

Schumi isnt what he used to be but driving around nursing the tyres is sucking the life out of him.

#19671 Longtimefan

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

Pathetic joke, 'if' anyone deserved a penalty for that it was Bruno.

Screw this sport.

#19672 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

That penalty for Schumacher was decided by a bunch of retards.

#19673 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:15

Oh it's the ubiquitous "I've raced and I know better than everyone else" racing forum response. Gee no one has ever seen that before :rolleyes: ...this is as straight forward as it gets, Schumacher made the mistake because Senna is running down the center of the track then suddenly veers to the left in an apparent attempt at a block right in the braking zone...if you know anything about racing (which clearly you don't, but maybe that is why you are here and not running a car) then you know that once MS applies the brakes he has limited steering input...even so...he did the best he could to turn back to the inside...

This problem was 100% created by Senna...to give MS a penalty for Senna's bonehead driving is a joke... :down: :down: :down: And sorry you have no clue if you support that penalty...


Buddy, Senna DID leave a car´s width on the left.

His move wasn´t a block attempt, he was simply comming back towards the racing line always leaving room. Sure, Schumacher got scared because he though the guy could go to the left edge (maybe because that´s something Schumacher usually does himself), but he DID NOT.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 May 2012 - 17:16.


#19674 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:18

Buddy, Senna DID leave a car´s width on the left.

His move wasn´t a block attempt, he was simply comming back towards the racing line always leaving room. Sure, Schumacher got scared because he though the guy could go to the left edge, but he DID NOT.


Right...he simply drifted to the outside to setup the turn right? I mean it wasn't and actual hard jink to the left what it? Reality, what a concept huh? :rolleyes:

#19675 DutchCruijff

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:18

I'd double check that crystal ball again...

Funnily enough I myself can't see into the future.

#19676 George Costanza

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:20

Bring on Canada, I guess.

Monaco is pretty much shot, which is sad because I think the car can be good there.

#19677 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:22

Do you have any analysis or these one-liners are the best you can do?

I think Schumacher was at fault and I´m discussing it and making my point on the incident, you´re just trying to bother people. Get lost.



Sorry bud if you are maintaining that Senna was simply setting up the turn by moving to the outside you don't have a leg to stand on...that is a completely ridiculous assertion. The man was running down the center of the track, then at the last second before the braking zone did a hard jink to the left...THAT is what happened.

#19678 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:23

Right...he simply drifted to the outside to setup the turn right?


He thought Schu had settled for the left line, and went as far left as he could.

Schumacher thought Senna hadn´t seen him there and was comming back to the left edge, but he was wrong. Senna saw him there and was ready to leave room for him there, and he did it at every point of the action.

#19679 ivand911

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:24

This will resolve the problem:
Senna could be replaced by Bottas soon
http://www.yallaf1.c...by-bottas-soon/


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#19680 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:25

He thought Schu had settled for the left line, and went as far left as he could.

Schumacher thought Senna hadn´t seen him there and was comming back to the left edge, but he was wrong. Senna saw him there and was ready to leave room for him there, and he did it at every point of the action.


I see so you know what they were thinking now? :wave: :rotfl:

#19681 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:31

I see so you know what they were thinking now? :wave: :rotfl:


Watching the incident is not hard to do it.

Senna didn´t come back completely to the racing line, so he KNEW Schu was left.

Schu didn´t chose the inside in the first place when Senna went to the middle, so that late change of mind is more an evasive move anticipating something that didn´t happen (Senna going completely left).

The only way I´ll change my mind on who´s at fault is watching it from Schu´s onboard and feeling unsafe myself when Senna starts going back left.



Poor video, but Senna is leaving more than enough room left, plus his move is far from "a hard jink". I don´t see why Schu felt he needed to change his line. :confused:

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 May 2012 - 17:34.


#19682 jj2728

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:32

Pathetic joke, 'if' anyone deserved a penalty for that it was Bruno.

Screw this sport.


Another fair weather fan bids adios.....don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Schumacher screwed up, he rammed Senna. His mistake clean and simple. To blame Senna, or to spin this incident in any other way is to be blind and oblivious to the obvious. The stewards made the right call.

#19683 weston

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:34

This will resolve the problem:
Senna could be replaced by Bottas soon
http://www.yallaf1.c...by-bottas-soon/


It's a rumor for a while (fueled by their contracts?).
As far as I understand Schumacher can't read (i.e. predict) properly the moves of B. Senna's generation.
Petrov, Kobayashi and Grosjean is still on the field.
Schumacher has had incidents with all of them. He should be more patient.

#19684 Birelman

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:35

Oh it's the ubiquitous "I've raced and I know better than everyone else" racing forum response. Gee no one has ever seen that before :rolleyes: ...this is as straight forward as it gets, Schumacher made the mistake because Senna is running down the center of the track then suddenly veers to the left in an apparent attempt at a block right in the braking zone...if you know anything about racing (which clearly you don't, but maybe that is why you are here and not running a car) then you know that once MS applies the brakes he has limited steering input...even so...he did the best he could to turn back to the inside...

This problem was 100% created by Senna...to give MS a penalty for Senna's bonehead driving is a joke... :down: :down: :down: And sorry you have no clue if you support that penalty...

I find your response rather insulting, I never claimed to know more than you. You had stated that anyone who understands racing would see it as you do, I simply said that I raced, hence, understand racing (not implying better than anyone) and, that I don't agree with your view, hence, not everyone who understands racing agrees with you, hence, your comment (IMHO) was flawed.

You point out that Schumacher had limited steering, which is in part correct (he has full steering, however limited control) but then point out he turned back to the right, however, fail to alias that had he NOT turned the wrong way and had gone left instead( by that same amount of "limited steering") he would have avoided Senna to the left, in fact, what he should have done, coupled with (with his experience) knowing that by that point Senna had superior position and that there was no way through the Brazilian, he should have realized this before his boneheaded move and left himself a bit more room to work with (and I don't mean backing out of it completely, there are ways to keep the pressure up)

BTW, anytime you want to share your racing stories I'm game.....

#19685 ivand911

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:35

Another fair weather fan bids adios.....don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Schumacher screwed up, he rammed Senna. His mistake clean and simple. To blame Senna, or to spin this incident in any other way is to be blind and oblivious to the obvious. The stewards made the right call.

Mind the door. :wave:


#19686 SenorSjon

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:36

Another fair weather fan bids adios.....don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Schumacher screwed up, he rammed Senna. His mistake clean and simple. To blame Senna, or to spin this incident in any other way is to be blind and oblivious to the obvious. The stewards made the right call.



Just like giving Vettel and Massa a DT but the rest of the group they were racing around could continue? I saw Button in that group as well, the distances between the cars stayed the same, yet two drivers got a penalty.

#19687 SeanValen

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:37

Is this penality for real as I see no website showing it?

#19688 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:37

To blame Senna, or to spin this incident in any other way is to be blind and oblivious to the obvious.


Well, you are both blind and stupid if you claim that it's Schumacher's fault.


#19689 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:39

Watching the incident is not hard to do it.

Senna didn´t come back completely to the racing line, so he KNEW Schu was left.

Schu didn´t chose the inside in the first place when Senna went to the middle, so that late change of mind is more an evasive move anticipating something that didn´t happen (Senna going completely left).

The only way I´ll change my mind on who´s at fault is watching it from Schu´s onboard and feeling unsafe myself when Senna starts going back left.


Do you get that this is at the end of the DRS zone under heavy braking? Do you get that this is literally the fastest point on the track? Do you get that the contact happens under braking? The "adapting to something that didn't happen" statement is trying to apply hindsight to a racing incident that Senna created...what has racing become when you penalize a guy for reacting to someone weaving in front of you? It was a racing incident, one that Senna created...he is running down the center of the track and weaving because he was being a tool...and frankly he got what he deserved...

#19690 ivand911

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:39

Is this penality for real as I see no website showing it?

It is real.
http://www.gpupdate....on-monaco-grid/

Edited by ivand911, 13 May 2012 - 17:40.


#19691 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:43

I find your response rather insulting, I never claimed to know more than you. You had stated that anyone who understands racing would see it as you do, I simply said that I raced, hence, understand racing (not implying better than anyone) and, that I don't agree with your view, hence, not everyone who understands racing agrees with you, hence, your comment (IMHO) was flawed.

You point out that Schumacher had limited steering, which is in part correct (he has full steering, however limited control) but then point out he turned back to the right, however, fail to alias that had he NOT turned the wrong way and had gone left instead( by that same amount of "limited steering") he would have avoided Senna to the left, in fact, what he should have done, coupled with (with his experience) knowing that by that point Senna had superior position and that there was no way through the Brazilian, he should have realized this before his boneheaded move and left himself a bit more room to work with (and I don't mean backing out of it completely, there are ways to keep the pressure up)

BTW, anytime you want to share your racing stories I'm game.....


So running down the center of the track off the preferred line is "superior position". Yeah, I don't think you have much racing experience. I don't. If you think Senna had superior position you need to read his late Uncle's book - you know, the Principles of Race Driving. Make sure you start on page one.

Edited by MidKnight, 13 May 2012 - 17:49.


#19692 SeanValen

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:44

Is this penality for real as I see no website showing it?



It is real then.

This is getting stupid.

Schumacher was robbed of his 4th place points position by the FIA in 2010 which mercedes didn't protest since no title was on the line.
Now this penality, add this along with the gearbox-australia, pitsotp wheel nut-china, drs issue quali-bahrain, racing with bruno senna.

It is real.
http://www.gpupdate....on-monaco-grid/




Schumacher is going to be even more pissed at everything now, the FIA have become annoying to join with the annoyance of losing spain points, I expect him to channel his anger into the 2006 Monaco race performance. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Edited by SeanValen, 13 May 2012 - 17:47.


#19693 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:45

Do you get that this is at the end of the DRS zone under heavy braking? Do you get that this is literally the fastest point on the track? Do you get that the contact happens under braking?



Pointless.

The "adapting to something that didn't happen" statement is trying to apply hindsight to a racing incident that Senna created...what has racing become when you penalize a guy for reacting to someone weaving in front of you? It was a racing incident, one that Senna created...he is running down the center of the track and weaving because he was being a tool...and frankly he got what he deserved...


Not adapting. If you´re on the outside of someone into a braking zone, expecting him to move towards you as much as he can without blocking your way is normal.

What Senna did was defending, and then going back towards the racing line leaving a car´s width. It´s perfectly OK.

#19694 Figure8

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:49

If they were all just cruising around, nowhere near the limit you'd expect MS to have plenty of time to take avoiding action. Given that current F1 us like following a safety car and not actual racing I'm shocked he had this incident.

#19695 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:51

So running down the center off the track off the preferred line is "superior position". Yeah, I don't think you have much racing experience. I don't. If you think Senna had superior position you need to read his late Uncle's book - you know, the Principles of Race Driving. Make sure you start on page one.


Oh my, you´re clueless.

A full car lenght´s in front, and with the inside line into the braking zone IS a superior position. You have no hope to pass someone in that position, all you can do is to get a better exit and try later. You have no hope of hanging around the outside, and if the other guys parks it on the apex and avoids the undercut you won´t even get a better exit.

#19696 mkoscevic

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:52

What Senna did was defending, and then going back towards the racing line leaving a car´s width. It´s perfectly OK.


What is the purpose of "leaving car's width" in that case? Senna moved in braking zone and when you brake you can't move car much which is why Schumacher couldn't switch line.

Have you ever drove a car?

Edited by mkoscevic, 13 May 2012 - 17:52.


#19697 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:53

Pointless.



Not adapting. If you´re on the outside of someone into a braking zone, expecting him to move towards you as much as he can without blocking your way is normal.

What Senna did was defending, and then going back towards the racing line leaving a car´s width. It´s perfectly OK.


Yeah it wasn't weaving at all was it? What a joke. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I suppose the fact that DRS was deployed and the fact that MS is carrying more speed at the time is just as pointless in your head as the fact the Senna is weaving his car down the center of the track...but you know you probably have racing "experience" too right? And just like the other guy you would have realized what Senna was thinking and "left yourself room" and all that, yes? What a joke. :down: :down: :down:

#19698 MidKnight

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:55

Oh my, you´re clueless.

A full car lenght´s in front, and with the inside line into the braking zone IS a superior position. You have no hope to pass someone in that position, all you can do is to get a better exit and try later. You have no hope of hanging around the outside, and if the other guys parks it on the apex and avoids the undercut you won´t even get a better exit.


No. The clueless one is you. MS is carrying more speed on the outside and is going to steal that apex which is why Senna jinked to the left. You simply do not understand what happened.

#19699 Dunder

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:58

Senna did move in the braking zone and that should not be allowed but hearing Schumacher complaining about someone moving in the braking zone is somewhat ironic.
Schumacher had the inside if he wanted it I guess he just misjudged how early Senna would have to brake given the state of his tyres at that stage.

All in all I would put it down as a 50/50 thing but the stewards do tend to give extra latitude to the defending driver.

Edited by Dunder, 13 May 2012 - 17:59.


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#19700 sniper80

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:59

It's disappointing to see Michael make such mistakes & a lot of coming togethers regarding all the experience he has. Looks like racing at the front hasn't really honed his racing craft over the years? This has happened a few times now.