Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20789 replies to this topic

#19651 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 8,869 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:34

Schumacher was predominantly at fault for the crash, but I'm sick of seeing penalties given for accidents, and ones that are not the fault of one perpetrator at that.

Advertisement

#19652 scandyman

scandyman
  • Member

  • 114 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:34

Shocking conclusion. So that clarifies the situation for the future, expect to see these last minute changes by the car ahead in the braking zone.

A president has been set. Dangerous decision!

Yeah thats right, we can all see how much it helped Senna. :rolleyes:

#19653 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,743 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:35

We can write of Monaco then. please just retire Michael this is doing my head in.


Support someone else, your attitude is poor and slightly irking to real fans.

#19654 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:35

I think its fair. He caused an avoidable accident and rammed off an oponent clearly from behind.

As Schumacher retired from the race he could not pay for his mistake, so he must do it next time.

Edited by ZooL, 13 May 2012 - 16:35.


#19655 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,743 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:37

Yeah thats right, we can all see how much it helped Senna. :rolleyes:


How silly, that obviously wasn't the point I was making.

#19656 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:37

Schumacher was predominantly at fault for the crash, but I'm sick of seeing penalties given for accidents, and ones that are not the fault of one perpetrator at that.


Sums my thoughts.

Schu got it wrong: Senna half defended, and went back towards the racing line leaving a car´s width on the outside for Schumacher. Nothing wrong. Schumacher changed his mind and went for the inside too late,

But no penalties were needed.

#19657 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,139 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:40

Support someone else, your attitude is poor and slightly irking to real fans.


No like i said i am life long fan. Been in his official Uk fan club when it was up and running, and have pretty much every minichamps model of his cars going as well as caps and other merch. At the same time i am not blind the writing is on the wall.

#19658 Henrik B

Henrik B
  • Member

  • 2,678 posts
  • Joined: March 03

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:40

Remaind me, what happened to Webber when he hit someone from behind (similar accident a few years back), or to Hamilton, hitting Kimi at pit exit...


If you ask me, Webber should have gotten one aswell. I guess everyone just forgot about it since it was such a spectacular crash.

Nothing wrong with the penalty. Schumacher had room on the inside and the outside and in indecision just smashed into Sennas behind. The small movement to the left wasn't a major shift in direction - and anyways, Senna was in front and had no idea where Schumacher was going to appear!

The major fault Schumacher did was not choosing a side earlier. Senna was, according to himself atleast, not about to put up a major fight...

#19659 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,019 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:41

The legendary comeback continues. A bit sad but really, for the sake of dignity, let's hope he bows out at the end of this year.

Advertisement

#19660 MidKnight

MidKnight
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:42

Schumacher was predominantly at fault for the crash, but I'm sick of seeing penalties given for accidents, and ones that are not the fault of one perpetrator at that.


Bullshit. Senna pulled a bullshit move and anyone that understands racing knows it too. The penalty is ridiculous.

#19661 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:46

I don't think Disgrace is out of order there. Schumi could have expected Senna to either race, or just get out of the way, instead of a sort of half and half, but its subjective. And in any case the main point is its very annoying to see penalties (given out to anyone) for what happens in racing. I happen think Senna shouldn't have moved in the braking zone, but certainly didn't want to see a penalty for him.

I hate these penalties :|

#19662 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:46

Bullshit. Senna pulled a bullshit move and anyone that understands racing knows it too. The penalty is ridiculous.

I raced my whole Life, raced some of the drivers you discuss in this forum, and I don't agree without you, so, no, anyone who understands racing doesn't see it as you do.

#19663 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:46

Bullshit. Senna pulled a bullshit move and anyone that understands racing knows it too. The penalty is ridiculous.


Senna went to defend to the middle of the track, saw Schumacher trying the outside line, and went back towards the racing line always leaving a car´s width to Schumacher. Perfectly OK.

Schumacher says he was scared because he didn´t know if Senna would go fully left so he switched to the inside, but that´s HIS problem, Senna did leave room on the left.

#19664 blackonyx4

blackonyx4
  • Member

  • 1,284 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:48

Remaind me, what happened to Webber when he hit someone from behind (similar accident a few years back), or to Hamilton, hitting Kimi at pit exit...


Hamilton got a 10 place grid penalty for Magny-Cours. Heck, he was even penalized for not hitting anyone from behind in Fuji. Whats your point?

#19665 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,743 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:48

No like i said i am life long fan. Been in his official Uk fan club when it was up and running, and have pretty much every minichamps model of his cars going as well as caps and other merch. At the same time i am not blind the writing is on the wall.


Haha, well done you bought lots of merchandise.

The writing certainly isn't on the wall, you've made up your mind so I'm not going to bother debating it. But those who clearly aren't over dramatic in response to Schumacher or Mercedes results we can see it's a different story.

#19666 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:49

Stewards made their decision, we will not cry about it. We accept the things as they are, we will not start threads , to make it the biggest problem in the world. They better sort out the car , because only STR and new teams are behind us.

#19667 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,646 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:49

Ahahaha.

He will be ruing the day he signed the contract for Merc in late 2009.

#19668 DutchCruijff

DutchCruijff
  • Member

  • 933 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:50

I predict a Schumi fight back in Monaco.

#19669 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 8,869 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:52

Bullshit. Senna pulled a bullshit move and anyone that understands racing knows it too. The penalty is ridiculous.


My view on the incident here and here, where you can also see the replay.

Senna wanted to gift Schumacher the inside line to prevent a repeat of the Grosjean contact that happened the lap before. He pulled to the left just as Schumacher committed to that line. It's an unfortunate racing incident.

Edited by Disgrace, 13 May 2012 - 16:52.


#19670 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:52

I predict a Schumi fight back in Monaco.

I'd double check that crystal ball again...

#19671 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 608 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:53

Stewards made their decision, we will not cry about it. We accept the things as they are, we will not start threads , to make it the biggest problem in the world. They better sort out the car , because only STR and new teams are behind us.

:up: :up: :up: Yes after all it's the stewards' job to decide. The real problem is MGP and the W03 after all.

#19672 scandyman

scandyman
  • Member

  • 114 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:56

The legendary comeback continues. A bit sad but really, for the sake of dignity, let's hope he bows out at the end of this year.

This year will definetely be his last. He has driven well considering his age but it is rather clear that it becomes harder and harder for him to do split second decisions which are needed in this sport. I can give Michael grade: c+ for his performances which should be fair.

#19673 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,292 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:59

I don't lie mate. I didn't say he had a 5 place penalty to piss you guys off.


I know that you normally post good info but it wasn't posted anywhere else. Thanks though.

#19674 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 2,786 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 13 May 2012 - 16:59

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.


#19675 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:00

This year will definetely be his last. He has driven well considering his age but it is rather clear that it becomes harder and harder for him to do split second decisions which are needed in this sport. I can give Michael grade: c+ for his performances which should be fair.


He was pretty decent at the start. he can still cut it, this was just a stupid racing incident. You see it happen. Lewis has had them, Vettel has had them. Neither of them are down on the reactions needed for racing. It happens sometimes.

#19676 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.


Should Button retire also? Becuase he was having a worse weekend than Schumi when the crash happened.

#19677 PoliFanAthic

PoliFanAthic
  • Member

  • 637 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

It's just such a bloody bad streak and it's even worse knowing something like this more or less compromises one of the most exciting races on the calendar.

#19678 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,139 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:01

Haha, well done you bought lots of merchandise.

The writing certainly isn't on the wall, you've made up your mind so I'm not going to bother debating it. But those who clearly aren't over dramatic in response to Schumacher or Mercedes results we can see it's a different story.



OK fair enough. I was just trying to show with the merchendise comment that i am not a passer by fan.

I also wont stop supporting him No matter what. I suppose everyone will have a different opinion on his return. I base mine on results. i don't know what different story other fans are picking up, but his comeback has been nowhere close to successful in my opinion.

On the plus side with all these random results we could still get a win before season ends.



#19679 spinster

spinster
  • Member

  • 597 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:02

Schumacher was predominantly at fault for the crash, but I'm sick of seeing penalties given for accidents, and ones that are not the fault of one perpetrator at that.


indead mighty mistake by MS...and stop all the other conclusions..

Advertisement

#19680 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,151 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:02

I weep for F1.

So a clown weavering in the brake zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.

Edited by SenorSjon, 13 May 2012 - 17:04.


#19681 spinster

spinster
  • Member

  • 597 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:04

I weep for F1.

So a clown weavering in the break zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.


let's be honoust...How many crashes did MS already have since his comeback?

For me time for....

#19682 PoliFanAthic

PoliFanAthic
  • Member

  • 637 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:05

Now that I think about this, I reckon that if I was in a car at 300 kmph and saw the possibility of getting a wheel or two on the grass due to a more aggressive maneuver by an opponent I know to be reckless, I'd have tried for the inside lane as well.

#19683 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:08

So a clown weavering in the brake zone didn't even get a penalty, it is the dude that hit him that does. Senna doesn't even know those reflective parts to his left and right in view are called mirrors. He could have easily seen MS was on the outside.


Actually seeing Schumacher on the outside was part of the crash buddy. He thought Schu settled for that line, and squeezed him leaving a car´s width on his left. Then Schumacher changed his mind and went for the inside.

I understand why Schu got scared, but had he stayed on the outside he would have been given room.

#19684 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:09

I finally admit, MS isnt good enough anymore this.

I would love to eat my words but I stand by my statement. His judgement isnt there anymore, he is too aggressive and over compensates. I feel this is a mental problem now and just hope he retires at the end of 2012 with dignity with no regrets.

Nothing will diminish 1991-2006, your utter dominance, ALL your records and your leadership. I just hope you retire and enjoy your $1bn+ fortune.

Props to you, my friend! :up:

#19685 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,743 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:09

Car AHEAD?



Nice still shots and lines :) you should work for Sky and their Skypad.

#19686 Scotracer

Scotracer
  • Member

  • 2,646 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:10

Michael was just too impatient...

and Senna is an over-zealous idiot too.

#19687 PoliFanAthic

PoliFanAthic
  • Member

  • 637 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:11

Hindsight is a great thing to afford, I'm sure Schumacher would agree.

#19688 MidKnight

MidKnight
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:11

I raced my whole Life, raced some of the drivers you discuss in this forum, and I don't agree without you, so, no, anyone who understands racing doesn't see it as you do.


Oh it's the ubiquitous "I've raced and I know better than everyone else" racing forum response. Gee no one has ever seen that before :rolleyes: ...this is as straight forward as it gets, Schumacher made the mistake because Senna is running down the center of the track then suddenly veers to the left in an apparent attempt at a block right in the braking zone...if you know anything about racing (which clearly you don't, but maybe that is why you are here and not running a car) then you know that once MS applies the brakes he has limited steering input...even so...he did the best he could to turn back to the inside...

This problem was 100% created by Senna...to give MS a penalty for Senna's bonehead driving is a joke... :down: :down: :down: And sorry you have no clue if you support that penalty...

#19689 smoothcrim

smoothcrim
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

Its also the fault of these garbage tyres.Ive never seen an F1 tyre that has an increased braking distance of 20m when worn.

Schumi isnt what he used to be but driving around nursing the tyres is sucking the life out of him.

#19690 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 2,403 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

Pathetic joke, 'if' anyone deserved a penalty for that it was Bruno.

Screw this sport.

#19691 mkoscevic

mkoscevic
  • Member

  • 605 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:14

That penalty for Schumacher was decided by a bunch of retards.

#19692 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:15

Oh it's the ubiquitous "I've raced and I know better than everyone else" racing forum response. Gee no one has ever seen that before :rolleyes: ...this is as straight forward as it gets, Schumacher made the mistake because Senna is running down the center of the track then suddenly veers to the left in an apparent attempt at a block right in the braking zone...if you know anything about racing (which clearly you don't, but maybe that is why you are here and not running a car) then you know that once MS applies the brakes he has limited steering input...even so...he did the best he could to turn back to the inside...

This problem was 100% created by Senna...to give MS a penalty for Senna's bonehead driving is a joke... :down: :down: :down: And sorry you have no clue if you support that penalty...


Buddy, Senna DID leave a car´s width on the left.

His move wasn´t a block attempt, he was simply comming back towards the racing line always leaving room. Sure, Schumacher got scared because he though the guy could go to the left edge (maybe because that´s something Schumacher usually does himself), but he DID NOT.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 May 2012 - 17:16.


#19693 MidKnight

MidKnight
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:18

Buddy, Senna DID leave a car´s width on the left.

His move wasn´t a block attempt, he was simply comming back towards the racing line always leaving room. Sure, Schumacher got scared because he though the guy could go to the left edge, but he DID NOT.


Right...he simply drifted to the outside to setup the turn right? I mean it wasn't and actual hard jink to the left what it? Reality, what a concept huh? :rolleyes:

#19694 DutchCruijff

DutchCruijff
  • Member

  • 933 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:18

I'd double check that crystal ball again...

Funnily enough I myself can't see into the future.

#19695 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 1,766 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:20

Bring on Canada, I guess.

Monaco is pretty much shot, which is sad because I think the car can be good there.

#19696 MidKnight

MidKnight
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:22

Do you have any analysis or these one-liners are the best you can do?

I think Schumacher was at fault and I´m discussing it and making my point on the incident, you´re just trying to bother people. Get lost.



Sorry bud if you are maintaining that Senna was simply setting up the turn by moving to the outside you don't have a leg to stand on...that is a completely ridiculous assertion. The man was running down the center of the track, then at the last second before the braking zone did a hard jink to the left...THAT is what happened.

#19697 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:23

Right...he simply drifted to the outside to setup the turn right?


He thought Schu had settled for the left line, and went as far left as he could.

Schumacher thought Senna hadn´t seen him there and was comming back to the left edge, but he was wrong. Senna saw him there and was ready to leave room for him there, and he did it at every point of the action.

#19698 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:24

This will resolve the problem:
Senna could be replaced by Bottas soon
http://www.yallaf1.c...by-bottas-soon/


#19699 MidKnight

MidKnight
  • Member

  • 65 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:25

He thought Schu had settled for the left line, and went as far left as he could.

Schumacher thought Senna hadn´t seen him there and was comming back to the left edge, but he was wrong. Senna saw him there and was ready to leave room for him there, and he did it at every point of the action.


I see so you know what they were thinking now? :wave: :rotfl:

Advertisement

#19700 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 3,885 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 13 May 2012 - 17:31

I see so you know what they were thinking now? :wave: :rotfl:


Watching the incident is not hard to do it.

Senna didn´t come back completely to the racing line, so he KNEW Schu was left.

Schu didn´t chose the inside in the first place when Senna went to the middle, so that late change of mind is more an evasive move anticipating something that didn´t happen (Senna going completely left).

The only way I´ll change my mind on who´s at fault is watching it from Schu´s onboard and feeling unsafe myself when Senna starts going back left.



Poor video, but Senna is leaving more than enough room left, plus his move is far from "a hard jink". I don´t see why Schu felt he needed to change his line. :confused:

Edited by Skinnyguy, 13 May 2012 - 17:34.