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#19851 ali.unal

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:34

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006

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#19852 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:52

5 races. There have been 5 races. MS could have undoubtedly avoid the Senna incident, though, frankly, penalizing it was more due to overeager stewarding in awe of Sir Frank's birthday, than real offence of the sporting directives. It was a racing incident, and would not have happened if Petrov was in Senna's place. Karthikeyan, I am not so sure. But one brainfade, and the dummies surface as usual, crying out for MS to retire, because he lost it. Business as usual. If by the end of the season the NR/MS standings are similar to what we see now, we bid farewell to MS, that's all. It is way way too early to start burying him, apart from his mighty bad-luck streak, he really seems to be on it. The Pirelli farce only means that the 40 points diff in the standings means next to nothing at this stage on the season.

#19853 jbarokF1

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 20:58

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006


I understand his frustration (who wouldn't) but publicly calling Senna an 'idiot' was uncalled for, when it was clear it's not all Senna's fault.

He should have just kept it for himself or went to the hospitality truck and screamed "idiot!!!" all afternoon LOL!!


#19854 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 21:10

I understand his frustration (who wouldn't) but publicly calling Senna an 'idiot' was uncalled for, when it was clear it's not all Senna's fault.

He should have just kept it for himself or went to the hospitality truck and screamed "idiot!!!" all afternoon LOL!!


It WAS Senna's fault. Which doesn't make it a less spectacular brainfade from MS's part.


#19855 scheivlak

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 23:09

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006

I've never seen that site, but that's an appallingly bad article.

Schumacher had a chance to challenge Rosberg for a win in China? C'mon.
DRS in Q worth over a second? That's rather optimistic.


#19856 jbarokF1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 00:14

I've never seen that site, but that's an appallingly bad article.

Schumacher had a chance to challenge Rosberg for a win in China? C'mon.
DRS in Q worth over a second? That's rather optimistic.


Very biased article indeed....it's kind of unfair and poor assesment of Rosberg vs Schumi..poor Rosberg.

#19857 SeanValen

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 00:33




That fact Williams and won a race/LOTUS could of won a race and probabley will, doesn't make Mercedes work look concrete yet, if Williams/Lotus/Ferrari can do well, that'x a mixture of teams. China mercedes have done well in the last 3 years, rosbergs better tracks. Schumacher always threatening to have a good albert park/sepang, but he's either been taken out or had merchanical issues.

Schumacher pointed out that some teams have moved forward since testing. If Williams and Ferrari stay or improve. This season is wide reaching, there is no pattern, it's a mess, which means hopefully sooner or later Schumacher's pace will get some results i deserves, but looking at Lotus, they could of won a race by now, this season maybe the most unexpecting/unpredictable of them all in history, and it's the longest season yet.



There will be alot of surprises to come I'm sure.




#19858 Muz Bee

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:32

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006

I tend to agree with most of what's written. Spain reaction is overblown and the error was less than how it first looked. Senna's early braking on stuffed tyres contributed to Michael's misjudgement as well as a lack of decisiveness in his (Senna's) line. Michael also looked indecisive and unprepared for the pass. He is having a far better season than the results show. He has handled qualifying a little better than previous years at MB but criticism of Rosberg should be deflected to the team - especially if you are going to make similar excuses (valid ones IMHO) for Michael. The team have failed to get a grip on tyre management, but it is interesting that title favourites McLaren are also having their problems in this area. All in all, quite a strange season and we could see some wild shifts of fortune during the year.

#19859 ali_M

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:46

Very biased article indeed....it's kind of unfair and poor assesment of Rosberg vs Schumi..poor Rosberg.


You're a very biased reader, I'd say. Nothing untoward has been said about Rosberg. Nothing! It's a very balanced article without the usual hype, pump, glory and bashing.

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#19860 TheBunk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:55

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.

#19861 ali_M

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 01:57

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Grudge also fueled by hype knows no bounds indeed.

#19862 654321

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:45

when i want to read weak,pathetic articles..i read AB...talk about clueless

#19863 TheBunk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 03:21

Reading the comments, Benson is getting slaughtered for this latest piece of schumacher-bashfest from his hands by a lot of readers. I thought this comment was appropriate:

"I just get the feeling that this article might be the turning point of Schumacher's season.

"Is Raikkonen worth the risk?" --> The iceman is doing a brilliant job
"How Webber turned tables on Vettel" --> Vettel wins in Bahrain and leads the WDC
"Fresh questions over struggling Schumacher" --> ???

Now I'm backing Schumacher to win the Monaco GP.'




Edited by TheBunk, 16 May 2012 - 03:37.


#19864 ali.unal

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 07:04

I've never seen that site, but that's an appallingly bad article.

Schumacher had a chance to challenge Rosberg for a win in China? C'mon.
DRS in Q worth over a second? That's rather optimistic.

Err, you're slamming the article for its reasoning, but you're doing the same (albeit in opposite direction) while pointing out. I don't see any difference between your reasoning and that of article.

I don't fully endorse what is written in that article, but it's good in that it gives some perspective, which has been very skewed after that incident.

#19865 TheBunk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:13

Maybe Benson will feel better when Hamilton finally wins a race, and he can go on for weeks how great that win was.;)

Indeed, the opening alone 'Schumachers lacklustre performances for Mercedes' bodes little good for the rest. He backtracks a little later on but overal he paints a very bad image of Michael, while hes doing very good and only this weekend made a mistake. And then calls the 'senior figure' a revelation, while linking that person saing michaels driving being mediocre, suddenly to Mercedes questioning his future. Appallingly bad journalism.

16 days before Senna was confirmed at Williams he also stated that a 'senior figure'' told him Barrichello would stay. Anyway, 400 comments below that article many are calling for Bensons head over this, saying its the worst piece of tabloid they ever read on the BBC.

#19866 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:58

Maybe Benson will feel better when Hamilton finally wins a race, and he can go on for weeks how great that win was.;)

Indeed, the opening alone 'Schumachers lacklustre performances for Mercedes' bodes little good for the rest. He backtracks a little later on but overal he paints a very bad image of Michael, while hes doing very good and only this weekend made a mistake. And then calls the 'senior figure' a revelation, while linking that person saing michaels driving being mediocre, suddenly to Mercedes questioning his future. Appallingly bad journalism.

16 days before Senna was confirmed at Williams he also stated that a 'senior figure'' told him Barrichello would stay. Anyway, 400 comments below that article many are calling for Bensons head over this, saying its the worst piece of tabloid they ever read on the BBC.


I'd like to know who this 'senior' figure was too because since Japan last year, Schumacher has drove very well. Infact, since 2011 he has been on Nico's pace. Barring bad luck and on track incidents, in terms of pace there is little to seperate both of them.

Benson has always been full of rubbish, it is this type of journalistic drivel, hyperbole and sometimes outright lies that led to the invasion of Iraq and resulted in conflict flames being fanned.

#19867 RacingReporter

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:15

I asked him a couple of questions through Twitter, let's see if the man is ready to shine some perspective on this case.

#19868 rog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:55

Very biased article indeed....it's kind of unfair and poor assesment of Rosberg vs Schumi..poor Rosberg.



It's always easier to blame a driver for the lack of results you know. But you can't expect a neutral view from a Schumacher fan. He even didn't mention the Perez mistake in Melbourne which cost him a sixth place.

Edited by rog, 16 May 2012 - 12:56.


#19869 Diablobb81

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 13:00

I've never seen that site, but that's an appallingly bad article.

Schumacher had a chance to challenge Rosberg for a win in China? C'mon.
DRS in Q worth over a second? That's rather optimistic.


He lost half a second only in sector 3.

So Michael had no chance to challenge Rosberg? Not even a tiny one, considering we don't know how the other stints would have played out?

It's always easier to blame a driver for the lack of results you know.


Ironic.

Edited by Diablobb81, 16 May 2012 - 13:02.


#19870 Sakae

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 13:16

Maybe Benson will feel better when Hamilton finally wins a race, and he can go on for weeks how great that win was...


That has been apparently taken care off. Message to Hembery: LH deserves a win in Monaco!! :p

#19871 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:18

Posts deleted.

Defamatory remarks are against forum rules. By all means say that you don't like an article, but please do not question the authors parentage.

#19872 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:20

That has been apparently taken care off. Message to Hembery: LH deserves a win in Monaco!! :p


LOL....

Six for six!

For those that are calling MS crazy for criticizing Pirelli, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz says tyres have turned F1 into a lottery for teams....

Benson is upset that MS stopped English dominance in F1.

DH from being a multiple world champion

DC from being a WDC

Leading to the golden age for Ferrari, and knocking Mclaren off their perch

Having the better of Martin Brundle....

Benson is not even the Pedro Lami of journalists.....



#19873 puxanando

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:33

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


This is what Joe Award is saying HERE

#19874 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:55

This is what Joe Award is saying HERE


All the elite driver believe that they do no wrong.

Whether it is Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Lauda, etc.....

This notion of the gentleman racer is long gone and perhaps never was.

Schumacher made a mistake. But the stewards have torpedoed Monaco because of a racing accident.



#19875 Massa_f1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 16:59

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


I think Andrew Benson can do down as one the worst f1 reporters in history. Every article he writes is bias. Never waste time reading anything he writes.

#19876 Sakae

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 18:56

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006

Well, I will have to change my mind about Brits. Rare as they are, pocket of decency apparently still exists on the island. Fair article in my opinion, but then you read next guy, and you can hold your head in shame for such trash is being published.

#19877 ivand911

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:18

Vettel defends Schumacher after Senna crash
http://www.yallaf1.c...er-senna-crash/

#19878 1Devil1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:19

I think Andrew Benson can do down as one the worst f1 reporters in history. Every article he writes is bias. Never waste time reading anything he writes.


I am really happy that you can read in the comments of the article that a lot of people disagree with his biased approach. Even the biggest Schumacher hater must point out his unlucky season so far. Michael made one mistake and we are talking about a mediocre performance? With luck and the same performance level of Schumacher he maybe would be a championship contender :rolleyes:

#19879 Longtimefan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:23

Benson should be a good mate with Johnny Herbert, both are very bitter men indeed.


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#19880 sharo

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:36

“Of course you can always say what is what afterwards,” added Vettel, “just as you can say that it always takes two to tango.”



#19881 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:50

Pure racing accident plain and simple...

#19882 ivand911

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:57

Just finished watching The Flying lap ep.70 - Peter Windsor and Scarbs think it was racing incident. Scarbs say you can't move in braking area. Because you destroy aero stream for the car behind. And braking for the car behind is changed(from normal). But, what they know?

I guess Michael will have new gearbox for Monaco. His car was retired from the race.

Edited by ivand911, 16 May 2012 - 20:01.


#19883 spacekid

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 20:06

Its amazing how similar the crash was to this one;



No penalties or real calls for Webber to retire of course.

Another case I think of a driver miscomunication - trying to get out of the way but instead wrong footing the guy behind who thinks he's pulling a 'racing' type of manouever.

#19884 jj2728

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 20:30

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

#19885 puxanando

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:37

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

:up: well said!

#19886 Szoelloe

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:46

:up: well said!


It is going to be well said after FA boxes at least 5 titles with Ferrari. Until then, hushhh...

#19887 baddog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:49

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

But not us, because we are sophisticated and knowledgeable fans with an understanding of what actually happened right? Not the sort of people who would look at this year and suggest Michael has been driving less than very well indeed. Only someone who just reads the headlines would be THAT dumb I'm sure.

#19888 654321

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:52

back to back :up:



#19889 jj2728

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 22:07

But not us, because we are sophisticated and knowledgeable fans with an understanding of what actually happened right? Not the sort of people who would look at this year and suggest Michael has been driving less than very well indeed. Only someone who just reads the headlines would be THAT dumb I'm sure.


But, and you have to agree that perspectives of his comeback will be skewed towards the negative should he not succeed. And by that I mean a return to winning ways. That he has on occasion driven well is beyond dispute, but driving well and getting results are different matters entirely.

#19890 baddog

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:31

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.

#19891 exmayol

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:01

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...

#19892 Pamphlet

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:07

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...


This. People forget that Macca have a much stronger car than Mercedes. Also, look at the ratings that people gave Rosberg in Bahrain and Button in Spain respectively. 7 compared to 3 on average.

#19893 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:12

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.

I do believe that unlike many MS fans you do try to be fair baddog. However it's interesting that MS gets let off on the basis of maybe the car doesn't suit his style etc. So Nico has had trouble nursing the car on these crap tyres in 2012, sounds just as plausible wouldn't you say? I try to be fair and give credit where it's due and I have to say MS is more impressive this season including qualifying which had been an achilles heel.

Few MS fans will recall but in the last quarter of 2011 Nico had pretty bad luck too, often when he looked in good shape. I think this season is pretty even between them if we take away Nico's best race at China where he was simply stunning and Michael was 0.5 off.

#19894 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:32

He lost half a second only in sector 3.

So Michael had no chance to challenge Rosberg? Not even a tiny one, considering we don't know how the other stints would have played out?

Ironic.


1. Does it matter if 0.5 is earned across 1, 2 or 3 sectors? The lap chart says enough, and it says "0.5"!

2. Speculating what would happen in another stint is futility and I doubt the writer would allow such speculation if the positions were reversed.

3. Yes - most ironic.

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.

#19895 Afterburner

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:13

But, and you have to agree that perspectives of his comeback will be skewed towards the negative should he not succeed. And by that I mean a return to winning ways. That he has on occasion driven well is beyond dispute, but driving well and getting results are different matters entirely.

Was just going to point this out--I agree completely. I also don't think that his comeback will hurt the perspective of his 'first' career very much if at all in the eyes of many--or at least in the eyes of the sensible among us. :p

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.

Pretty much sums it up, to be honest. Always enjoy reading your posts even if our views on Schumi are different. :up:

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

I wish you wouldn't generalise, though--I've learned over time that every driver on the grid has fans who behave like that. It's not something exclusive to MS. ;)

#19896 ivand911

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:26

I am pretty sure that MS would have finished ahead of Nico in Spain. Nico was 2 sec ahead of Michael.

#19897 IceSkyrim

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:45

I am pretty sure that MS would have finished ahead of Nico in Spain. Nico was 2 sec ahead of Michael.

+ Grosjean

#19898 ivand911

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:05

What Grosjean? He pass Nico in lap 15.

#19899 black magic

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:06

I'm a little surprised people haven't questioned nico's fitness/ it does seem a consistant feature that nico seems to fade towards the end of the race. yes that could be the tyres but also could it ntot be that he is getting either tired or struggling with motivation/ concentration due to tredness?

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#19900 Sakae

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 13:19

Michael just doesn't "bumps" into wrong things without a reason. I am noticing in here a lot of posters are patting themselves on the shoulder for being objective, yet almost no one bothers to invest in cause & effect analysis to understand the altercation from technical side. I guess writing off Schumacher as "old" is quicker and painless for a lazy mind. It was a racing accident, no doubt about it. Was it avoidable? Stewards said YES, but was it really? F1 is all about risk in those speeds, and nanoseconds do count. I am not pretending to know more than anyone else in here, but I do suggest that better understanding of cumulative effect of air flow, turbulance caused by changing car positions, and available breaking options could be a good start (instead just assigning blame and walking away from it).

Edited by Sakae, 18 May 2012 - 18:31.