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#19901 Sakae

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 13:16

Maybe Benson will feel better when Hamilton finally wins a race, and he can go on for weeks how great that win was...


That has been apparently taken care off. Message to Hembery: LH deserves a win in Monaco!! :p

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#19902 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:18

Posts deleted.

Defamatory remarks are against forum rules. By all means say that you don't like an article, but please do not question the authors parentage.

#19903 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:20

That has been apparently taken care off. Message to Hembery: LH deserves a win in Monaco!! :p


LOL....

Six for six!

For those that are calling MS crazy for criticizing Pirelli, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz says tyres have turned F1 into a lottery for teams....

Benson is upset that MS stopped English dominance in F1.

DH from being a multiple world champion

DC from being a WDC

Leading to the golden age for Ferrari, and knocking Mclaren off their perch

Having the better of Martin Brundle....

Benson is not even the Pedro Lami of journalists.....



#19904 puxanando

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:33

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


This is what Joe Award is saying HERE

#19905 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 14:55

This is what Joe Award is saying HERE


All the elite driver believe that they do no wrong.

Whether it is Senna, Schumacher, Prost, Lauda, etc.....

This notion of the gentleman racer is long gone and perhaps never was.

Schumacher made a mistake. But the stewards have torpedoed Monaco because of a racing accident.



#19906 Massa_f1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 16:59

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


I think Andrew Benson can do down as one the worst f1 reporters in history. Every article he writes is bias. Never waste time reading anything he writes.

#19907 Sakae

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 18:56

There is good read in F1 Times on Shumacher. They reckon post-Spain criticism was undeserving.

http://thef1times.co...s/display/06006

Well, I will have to change my mind about Brits. Rare as they are, pocket of decency apparently still exists on the island. Fair article in my opinion, but then you read next guy, and you can hold your head in shame for such trash is being published.

#19908 ivand911

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:18

Vettel defends Schumacher after Senna crash
http://www.yallaf1.c...er-senna-crash/

#19909 1Devil1

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:19

I think Andrew Benson can do down as one the worst f1 reporters in history. Every article he writes is bias. Never waste time reading anything he writes.


I am really happy that you can read in the comments of the article that a lot of people disagree with his biased approach. Even the biggest Schumacher hater must point out his unlucky season so far. Michael made one mistake and we are talking about a mediocre performance? With luck and the same performance level of Schumacher he maybe would be a championship contender :rolleyes:

#19910 Longtimefan

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:23

Benson should be a good mate with Johnny Herbert, both are very bitter men indeed.


#19911 sharo

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:36

“Of course you can always say what is what afterwards,” added Vettel, “just as you can say that it always takes two to tango.”



#19912 schubacca

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:50

Pure racing accident plain and simple...

#19913 ivand911

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 19:57

Just finished watching The Flying lap ep.70 - Peter Windsor and Scarbs think it was racing incident. Scarbs say you can't move in braking area. Because you destroy aero stream for the car behind. And braking for the car behind is changed(from normal). But, what they know?

I guess Michael will have new gearbox for Monaco. His car was retired from the race.

Edited by ivand911, 16 May 2012 - 20:01.


#19914 spacekid

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 20:06

Its amazing how similar the crash was to this one;



No penalties or real calls for Webber to retire of course.

Another case I think of a driver miscomunication - trying to get out of the way but instead wrong footing the guy behind who thinks he's pulling a 'racing' type of manouever.

#19915 jj2728

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 20:30

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

#19916 puxanando

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:37

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

:up: well said!

#19917 Szoelloe

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:46

:up: well said!


It is going to be well said after FA boxes at least 5 titles with Ferrari. Until then, hushhh...

#19918 baddog

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:49

Well, even though he's driven well on occasion, his comeback, results-wise, has been mediocre. And that's what people will be looking at down the road. Bad luck or not, tyres or not.

But not us, because we are sophisticated and knowledgeable fans with an understanding of what actually happened right? Not the sort of people who would look at this year and suggest Michael has been driving less than very well indeed. Only someone who just reads the headlines would be THAT dumb I'm sure.

#19919 654321

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 21:52

back to back :up:



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#19920 jj2728

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 22:07

But not us, because we are sophisticated and knowledgeable fans with an understanding of what actually happened right? Not the sort of people who would look at this year and suggest Michael has been driving less than very well indeed. Only someone who just reads the headlines would be THAT dumb I'm sure.


But, and you have to agree that perspectives of his comeback will be skewed towards the negative should he not succeed. And by that I mean a return to winning ways. That he has on occasion driven well is beyond dispute, but driving well and getting results are different matters entirely.

#19921 baddog

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 03:31

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.

#19922 exmayol

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:01

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...

#19923 Pamphlet

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:07

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...


This. People forget that Macca have a much stronger car than Mercedes. Also, look at the ratings that people gave Rosberg in Bahrain and Button in Spain respectively. 7 compared to 3 on average.

#19924 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:12

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.

I do believe that unlike many MS fans you do try to be fair baddog. However it's interesting that MS gets let off on the basis of maybe the car doesn't suit his style etc. So Nico has had trouble nursing the car on these crap tyres in 2012, sounds just as plausible wouldn't you say? I try to be fair and give credit where it's due and I have to say MS is more impressive this season including qualifying which had been an achilles heel.

Few MS fans will recall but in the last quarter of 2011 Nico had pretty bad luck too, often when he looked in good shape. I think this season is pretty even between them if we take away Nico's best race at China where he was simply stunning and Michael was 0.5 off.

#19925 Muz Bee

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 04:32

He lost half a second only in sector 3.

So Michael had no chance to challenge Rosberg? Not even a tiny one, considering we don't know how the other stints would have played out?

Ironic.


1. Does it matter if 0.5 is earned across 1, 2 or 3 sectors? The lap chart says enough, and it says "0.5"!

2. Speculating what would happen in another stint is futility and I doubt the writer would allow such speculation if the positions were reversed.

3. Yes - most ironic.

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.

#19926 Afterburner

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 05:13

But, and you have to agree that perspectives of his comeback will be skewed towards the negative should he not succeed. And by that I mean a return to winning ways. That he has on occasion driven well is beyond dispute, but driving well and getting results are different matters entirely.

Was just going to point this out--I agree completely. I also don't think that his comeback will hurt the perspective of his 'first' career very much if at all in the eyes of many--or at least in the eyes of the sensible among us. :p

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.

Pretty much sums it up, to be honest. Always enjoy reading your posts even if our views on Schumi are different. :up:

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

I wish you wouldn't generalise, though--I've learned over time that every driver on the grid has fans who behave like that. It's not something exclusive to MS. ;)

#19927 ivand911

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:26

I am pretty sure that MS would have finished ahead of Nico in Spain. Nico was 2 sec ahead of Michael.

#19928 IceSkyrim

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 06:45

I am pretty sure that MS would have finished ahead of Nico in Spain. Nico was 2 sec ahead of Michael.

+ Grosjean

#19929 ivand911

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:05

What Grosjean? He pass Nico in lap 15.

#19930 black magic

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 07:06

I'm a little surprised people haven't questioned nico's fitness/ it does seem a consistant feature that nico seems to fade towards the end of the race. yes that could be the tyres but also could it ntot be that he is getting either tired or struggling with motivation/ concentration due to tredness?

#19931 Sakae

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 13:19

Michael just doesn't "bumps" into wrong things without a reason. I am noticing in here a lot of posters are patting themselves on the shoulder for being objective, yet almost no one bothers to invest in cause & effect analysis to understand the altercation from technical side. I guess writing off Schumacher as "old" is quicker and painless for a lazy mind. It was a racing accident, no doubt about it. Was it avoidable? Stewards said YES, but was it really? F1 is all about risk in those speeds, and nanoseconds do count. I am not pretending to know more than anyone else in here, but I do suggest that better understanding of cumulative effect of air flow, turbulance caused by changing car positions, and available breaking options could be a good start (instead just assigning blame and walking away from it).

Edited by Sakae, 18 May 2012 - 18:31.


#19932 Dunder

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 14:26

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.


He actually emerged from the pits in P6.
He was behind Rosberg, Perez and Massa who had yet to stop. He was also behind Button and Hamilton who undercut him by stopping earlier.


#19933 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:08

He was let down there by the strategy. His pace was fine and he managed to increase the gap to Button just before the pit-stop, yet he was brought in one lap too late and that cost him the two places to McLaren.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 17 May 2012 - 16:08.


#19934 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:12

It's a pity for Michael that he got penalized for Monaco. I think it is the track where he could beat Rosberg easily.

#19935 Dunder

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:16

He was let down there by the strategy. His pace was fine and he managed to increase the gap to Button just before the pit-stop, yet he was brought in one lap too late and that cost him the two places to McLaren.


Sure, I don't disagree. The timing of the pitstop was fine if they were confident of managing a 2-stopper otherwise, yes they were at least one lap too late.


#19936 jbarokF1

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:36

1. Does it matter if 0.5 is earned across 1, 2 or 3 sectors? The lap chart says enough, and it says "0.5"!

2. Speculating what would happen in another stint is futility and I doubt the writer would allow such speculation if the positions were reversed.

3. Yes - most ironic.

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.


:up:

Some MS fans are trying so hard to justify his 2 pts after 5 races..

Just wait after maybe 15 races or when the season ends. Still a lot of things can happen..who knows MS will win 1 race (since some people here consider this season a lottery season), then you can save yourself from scratching your heads on how you can defend MS or justify his lack of results.

Edited by jbarokF1, 17 May 2012 - 16:47.


#19937 spacekid

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 17:04

:up:

Some MS fans are trying so hard to justify his 2 pts after 5 races..

Just wait after maybe 15 races or when the season ends. Still a lot of things can happen..who knows MS will win 1 race (since some people here consider this season a lottery season), then you can save yourself from scratching your heads on how you can defend MS or justify his lack of results.



Right. You've made your point very clearly on this thread - you don't like Michael or his fans.

So why don't you take each race and explain why he didn't score more points. You can start with Australia - since his fans obviously don't understand motorsport please explain to us why Michael didn't score more points in Australia and how that was his fault. Then you can try Malaysia, then China. I need educating..

#19938 spacekid

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 17:08

I do believe that unlike many MS fans you do try to be fair baddog. However it's interesting that MS gets let off on the basis of maybe the car doesn't suit his style etc. So Nico has had trouble nursing the car on these crap tyres in 2012, sounds just as plausible wouldn't you say? I try to be fair and give credit where it's due and I have to say MS is more impressive this season including qualifying which had been an achilles heel.

Few MS fans will recall but in the last quarter of 2011 Nico had pretty bad luck too, often when he looked in good shape. I think this season is pretty even between them if we take away Nico's best race at China where he was simply stunning and Michael was 0.5 off.


Your blanket generalisation of MS fans is pretty insulting.

#19939 jbarokF1

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 18:03

Right. You've made your point very clearly on this thread - you don't like Michael or his fans.

So why don't you take each race and explain why he didn't score more points. You can start with Australia - since his fans obviously don't understand motorsport please explain to us why Michael didn't score more points in Australia and how that was his fault. Then you can try Malaysia, then China. I need educating..


Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.

Edited by jbarokF1, 17 May 2012 - 18:11.


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#19940 Tarzaan

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 18:07

Why post-Spain criticism of Schumacher is wrong

http://www.thef1time...s/display/06006


#19941 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:20

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/

Edited by IceSkyrim, 18 May 2012 - 03:21.


#19942 Raelene

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:28

Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.




OMFG!!!!! he didn't really just say that did he?????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If that's how you feel - don't bother even watching the races - just look at the points result at the end of the year.


Edited by Raelene, 18 May 2012 - 07:08.


#19943 spacekid

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:23

Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.


Oh you've been doing plenty of judging in this thread.

Tell you what, why don't you check out who finished 22nd and 23rd in the championship points for the 2001 season. Then you can justify how Tarso Marques is such a superior driver to Alonso :rolleyes:

#19944 Sakae

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:29

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/


That's what you get when you ask only the anti-Schumi crowd. No one has ask me... :p

#19945 pUs

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:47

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.


Yeah, so why don't you do exactly that - wait? And since context is such a non-issue for you, and you're clearly not the slightest interested in taking into account how a race arrived at a certain result, why on earth are you even watching these races, let alone discussing them?

Edited by pUs, 18 May 2012 - 11:49.


#19946 bauss

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:59

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...


It was a good drive....but MS had the luxury of 3 sets of new soft tires, LH had none...combined with a circuit where its hard to overtake/hard on tires, LH had to go long on his strategy.

With that said, I think MS has had a decent start to the season barring what happened last sunday

#19947 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:50

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/

Don't lie, expect, not want.

#19948 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 14:19

Don't lie, expect, not want.

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:

But you can interpret as:

I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire  ;)

#19949 ivand911

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 14:47

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:
But you can interpret as:
I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire ;)

Only you interpret it like this. We don't.


#19950 Gareth

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:07

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:

But you can interpret as:

I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire ;)

I expect I will not win the lottery this weekend.

I want to win the lottery this weekend.

expect != want