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#19901 Dunder

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 14:26

Lets just summarise the season so far for Michael.. completely fact based, just to try to 'reset' the conversation to a rational basis maybe?

Australia: Qualified 4th (teammate 7th), retired from 3rd with a mechanical issue. (teammate 5th at that time)
Malaysia: Qualified 3rd (teammate 8th), 10th in race following contact from Grosjean (teammate 13th)
China: Qualified 2nd (teammate 1st), retired from 2nd after pitstop error by team (teammate 1st)
Bahrain: Qualified 18th after wing failure in Q1 (teammate 5th), finshed 10th (teammate 5th)
Spain: Qualified 8th with no time set in Q3 (teammate 6th with time set), dnf following crash with Senna while running 7th (teammate finished 7th)

I have tried to be completely fair and apologise for any minor innacuracies. Seems to be a bloody good season barring his mistake hitting Senna.


He actually emerged from the pits in P6.
He was behind Rosberg, Perez and Massa who had yet to stop. He was also behind Button and Hamilton who undercut him by stopping earlier.


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#19902 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:08

He was let down there by the strategy. His pace was fine and he managed to increase the gap to Button just before the pit-stop, yet he was brought in one lap too late and that cost him the two places to McLaren.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 17 May 2012 - 16:08.


#19903 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:12

It's a pity for Michael that he got penalized for Monaco. I think it is the track where he could beat Rosberg easily.

#19904 Dunder

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:16

He was let down there by the strategy. His pace was fine and he managed to increase the gap to Button just before the pit-stop, yet he was brought in one lap too late and that cost him the two places to McLaren.


Sure, I don't disagree. The timing of the pitstop was fine if they were confident of managing a 2-stopper otherwise, yes they were at least one lap too late.


#19905 jbarokF1

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 16:36

1. Does it matter if 0.5 is earned across 1, 2 or 3 sectors? The lap chart says enough, and it says "0.5"!

2. Speculating what would happen in another stint is futility and I doubt the writer would allow such speculation if the positions were reversed.

3. Yes - most ironic.

You see what I mean when I say Schumacher fans often make ridiculously inflated claims about "their man". And they wonder why people who keep their personal biases chilled down a little respond in correcting the obvious inequity of a statement. :rolleyes:

It still causes me to wonder why MS would bother continuing after a mostly glorious career when he is driving a pretty ordinary car - in terms of his career, the worst he has driven.

Nico continues to try to find a team who can provide him with a winning car, a bit like his old man did, but for too long. I can understand why he is still prepared to persevere with an ordinary car.

In the plastic version of racing that is Pirelli 2012 MS appears to be able to play the racecraft games nearly as well as his younger and quicker teammate, even if he does tend to bump into things occasionally. I acknowledge he has also had some wretched luck and looks far more convincing than 2011 when he is having a good day. His bad days are bordering on howlers (Spain) and outclassed (China). But at 43 we should not be too surprised, it's impressive enough that he can still be on the same page as some of the young guns.


:up:

Some MS fans are trying so hard to justify his 2 pts after 5 races..

Just wait after maybe 15 races or when the season ends. Still a lot of things can happen..who knows MS will win 1 race (since some people here consider this season a lottery season), then you can save yourself from scratching your heads on how you can defend MS or justify his lack of results.

Edited by jbarokF1, 17 May 2012 - 16:47.


#19906 spacekid

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 17:04

:up:

Some MS fans are trying so hard to justify his 2 pts after 5 races..

Just wait after maybe 15 races or when the season ends. Still a lot of things can happen..who knows MS will win 1 race (since some people here consider this season a lottery season), then you can save yourself from scratching your heads on how you can defend MS or justify his lack of results.



Right. You've made your point very clearly on this thread - you don't like Michael or his fans.

So why don't you take each race and explain why he didn't score more points. You can start with Australia - since his fans obviously don't understand motorsport please explain to us why Michael didn't score more points in Australia and how that was his fault. Then you can try Malaysia, then China. I need educating..

#19907 spacekid

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 17:08

I do believe that unlike many MS fans you do try to be fair baddog. However it's interesting that MS gets let off on the basis of maybe the car doesn't suit his style etc. So Nico has had trouble nursing the car on these crap tyres in 2012, sounds just as plausible wouldn't you say? I try to be fair and give credit where it's due and I have to say MS is more impressive this season including qualifying which had been an achilles heel.

Few MS fans will recall but in the last quarter of 2011 Nico had pretty bad luck too, often when he looked in good shape. I think this season is pretty even between them if we take away Nico's best race at China where he was simply stunning and Michael was 0.5 off.


Your blanket generalisation of MS fans is pretty insulting.

#19908 jbarokF1

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 18:03

Right. You've made your point very clearly on this thread - you don't like Michael or his fans.

So why don't you take each race and explain why he didn't score more points. You can start with Australia - since his fans obviously don't understand motorsport please explain to us why Michael didn't score more points in Australia and how that was his fault. Then you can try Malaysia, then China. I need educating..


Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.

Edited by jbarokF1, 17 May 2012 - 18:11.


#19909 Tarzaan

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 18:07

Why post-Spain criticism of Schumacher is wrong

http://www.thef1time...s/display/06006


#19910 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:20

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/

Edited by IceSkyrim, 18 May 2012 - 03:21.


#19911 Raelene

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 03:28

Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.




OMFG!!!!! he didn't really just say that did he?????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If that's how you feel - don't bother even watching the races - just look at the points result at the end of the year.


Edited by Raelene, 18 May 2012 - 07:08.


#19912 spacekid

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:23

Like what I've said I'd rather wait till the season ends before I get comments of being bias. Too early to judge or defend any driver at the moment..

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.


Oh you've been doing plenty of judging in this thread.

Tell you what, why don't you check out who finished 22nd and 23rd in the championship points for the 2001 season. Then you can justify how Tarso Marques is such a superior driver to Alonso :rolleyes:

#19913 Sakae

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:29

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/


That's what you get when you ask only the anti-Schumi crowd. No one has ask me... :p

#19914 pUs

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:47

I'd rather wait the total points after the last race..The driver with most points is the best driver of the season and the driver with more points in the team is the better driver, regardless of godd or bad luck, mechanical issues, etc. This is the reason why we have points system in order to quantify the best driver.


Yeah, so why don't you do exactly that - wait? And since context is such a non-issue for you, and you're clearly not the slightest interested in taking into account how a race arrived at a certain result, why on earth are you even watching these races, let alone discussing them?

Edited by pUs, 18 May 2012 - 11:49.


#19915 bauss

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 11:59

Yeah so far so good. I like how LW drive in Spain was called solid, mature and all that yet MS drive in Bahrain does not get the same level of attention...


It was a good drive....but MS had the luxury of 3 sets of new soft tires, LH had none...combined with a circuit where its hard to overtake/hard on tires, LH had to go long on his strategy.

With that said, I think MS has had a decent start to the season barring what happened last sunday

#19916 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 12:50

According to the marketing intitute Promit, 55,4% od the Germans wants Schumy to retire.
26.2 per cent said they think Schumacher should sign on for at least another season.

http://totalf1.com/f...at_end_of_2012/

Don't lie, expect, not want.

#19917 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 14:19

Don't lie, expect, not want.

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:

But you can interpret as:

I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire  ;)

#19918 ivand911

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 14:47

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:
But you can interpret as:
I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire ;)

Only you interpret it like this. We don't.


#19919 Gareth

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:07

YES, thanks for correcting me :up:

But you can interpret as:

I expect = I hope = I wish = I want ... Schumacher to retire ;)

I expect I will not win the lottery this weekend.

I want to win the lottery this weekend.

expect != want

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#19920 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:16

Thank you for the linguistic discussion people. :up:

In the end people perceive MS is not having a good time in F1.

On a personnal note, if I see somebody dear to me not doing well, with no hope of improvement, I expect/hop/wish him to drop the activity. IMO.

#19921 artista

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:27

SID is a German agency, and in German they have written Schumacher "soll" (should) retire, not that they "expect" him to retire.

Here there is a link in German: http://www.motorspor...n_12051602.html

#19922 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:33

SID is a German agency, and in German they have written Schumacher "soll" (should) retire, not that they "expect" him to retire.

Here there is a link in German: http://www.motorspor...n_12051602.html

Thank you :up:

I was waiting for the feedback of the original news in German. ;)
"Schumacher should retire"

Anyway "want" was improper from my part, sorry all.

Edited by IceSkyrim, 18 May 2012 - 15:36.


#19923 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:55

Thank you for the linguistic discussion people. :up:

In the end people perceive MS is not having a good time in F1.

On a personnal note, if I see somebody dear to me not doing well, with no hope of improvement, I expect/hop/wish him to drop the activity. IMO.

From a purely selfish point of view I'd rather he stayed as I enjoy watching him race, taking a step back however I can see how him hanging around when he clearly is no where near as good as he was, has no need to keep racing and is therefore potentially keeping a fast young racer out of a seat would frustrate people.

#19924 BetaVersion

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:09

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?

"After so many years of doing the sport which I love, and which myself and my family made so many sacrifices for, after so many years of trying to get to where we have gotten to at this point, this sport has changed a lot and it has changed to the point where I am not enjoying it.

"I don't have the passion for it and so at this time it's better if I retire now.

"There are a lot of things that have disappointed me, and also a lot of things I have loved about this sport, but unfortunately the balance has gone in the wrong direction."

Casey Stoner



#19925 ali_M

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:32

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?


As I read Stoner's words, I thought of Schumi. However, I think Schumi's love for the sport runs deeper. He had a longer career than Stoner and put up with a LOT of negative press during those years.

If his resilience is the same as in the past, I doubt that any negative press will sway him into retiring. It will be a personal decision based on what really prevails around him rather than what fans and the media are saying.

#19926 scheivlak

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:37

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?

There's a difference - from Casey's mouth they could be the words of a winner, from Michael's they are the words of a loser.

#19927 DutchCruijff

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 04:19

He'll stay because that's the kind of person he comes across as, a stubborn, determined git. He knows more than anyone else that his performances have been "on it" but he's been riddled with utter b*llshit it really is laughable. There's 15 races to go, his bad luck won't run for 15 more races and people will stop calling for his head.

#19928 Muz Bee

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:23

As I read Stoner's words, I thought of Schumi. However, I think Schumi's love for the sport runs deeper. He had a longer career than Stoner and put up with a LOT of negative press during those years.

If his resilience is the same as in the past, I doubt that any negative press will sway him into retiring. It will be a personal decision based on what really prevails around him rather than what fans and the media are saying.

Certainly is a contrast of careers. Casey retires at the top aged 26. Michael is still bashing around tripping over midfield drivers at the age of 43. But I like the suitability of Casey's retirement announcement being adopted.

Like Michael, Casey has his share of critics, among the fans more than the serious scribes. Casey never behaved poorly on track with unsporting behaviour but like Michael could be rather poor on the communications front. I am sad that CAsey is retiring because he still has it, plenty of it, and is the most spectacular rider on teh MGP bikes. Michael on teh other hand I would not miss as there are plenty of young bucks who would be aquickly on his pace if they got their chance. And while Casey could conceivably expect to win another 4 or more titles if he went on to normal retiring age of 34, Michael will never win another title, he simply is no longer good enough. If Stoner reached that point I would want him to quit immediately, like I think Rossi should and Michael should. Both noticeably past their peak and not in the top echelon of competitors.

#19929 baddog

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:09

Hey you are letting your cardboard mask of un-bias slip there mate :p

Michael is being out-driven by precisely WHO this year? Lets be clear. I would suggest Alonso and Hamilton as the only two drivers one could reasonably state to be demonstrably outperforming him. Everyone else is all over the place.

You say he 'is no longer good enough', but what does that say about the current drivers?? Nico must according to you not be good enough. Jenson isnt good enough, Sebastian? Not good enough. They have all made mistakes and had mixed results, no better than Michael's performance in any way.

I think they are all good enough, as Michael clearly is too. He made ONE mistake while driving extremely well. Stop being silly.

#19930 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:20

He'll stay because that's the kind of person he comes across as, a stubborn, determined git. He knows more than anyone else that his performances have been "on it" but he's been riddled with utter b*llshit it really is laughable. There's 15 races to go, his bad luck won't run for 15 more races and people will stop calling for his head.


Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....

Edited by aditya-now, 19 May 2012 - 12:22.


#19931 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:51

Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.

Edited by Sakae, 19 May 2012 - 12:54.


#19932 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:53

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.


#19933 Kvothe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:54

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (otehrs say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


When either Lewis or Jenson stop on the apex of a chicane, to block another driver during a free practice session, will I agree with you.

Edited by Kvothe, 19 May 2012 - 12:56.


#19934 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:00

When either Lewis or Jenson stop on the apex of a chicane, to block another driver during a free practice session, will I agree with you.


Topic was last Schumacher's altercation with Senna, and pots-incident rhetorics in paddoc, media, and BBs, comparing with various events when in similar situation McLaren's drivers were involved. If you want to start your game on a different note, than I suggest (as someone here pointed out), you should create a list as of age eight, when mean Schumacher start messing kart event. Make a list, frame it, and post it every time someone disagrees with you.

Edited by Sakae, 19 May 2012 - 13:00.


#19935 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:00

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


I give you that, Sakae - Spain was extremely unlucky both for Schumi and for Senna - both were victims. Senna victim of degrading tires, Michael victim of an unsteerable car so close in the slipstream behind Senna at the end of the straight. Yes, in a way Michael himself was the idiot, he should have known that after so many years in the sport.

Interesting, Sakae, you lived on four continents, myself only on three - my homes were in Salzburg, Sao Paulo, New York City, Rome, Prague, Hamburg, Vienna, The Hague, Milan and Zurich. Where have you been around? Sorry, out of context.


#19936 ivand911

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:02

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.

BS, will never happen. Dream on. Heath doesn't have any credibility. I guess rumours came from his buddies @NobleF1, @andrewbensonf1, Joe Saward. Sorry ,but it sounds stupid, MGP screw MS so many time and now one incident and rumours started??? As you see nothing is connected with this tweet. It is simple malice. You should know that by now.

Edited by ivand911, 19 May 2012 - 13:55.


#19937 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:02

I give you that, Sakae - Spain was extremely unlucky both for Schumi and for Senna - both were victims. Senna victim of degrading tires, Michael victim of an unsteerable car so close in the slipstream behind Senna at the end of the straight. Yes, in a way Michael himself was the idiot, he should have known that after so many years in the sport.

Interesting, Sakae, you lived on four continents, myself only on three - my homes were in Salzburg, Sao Paulo, New York City, Rome, Prague, Hamburg, Vienna, The Hague, Milan and Zurich. Where have you been around? Sorry, out of context.

EU, Africa, Americas, Japan.

#19938 Kvothe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:12

Topic was last Schumacher's altercation with Senna, and pots-incident rhetorics in paddoc, media, and BBs, comparing with various events when in similar situation McLaren's drivers were involved. If you want to start your game on a different note, than I suggest (as someone here pointed out), you should create a list as of age eight, when mean Schumacher start messing kart event. Make a list, frame it, and post it every time someone disagrees with you.


The fact is if Schumacher is held to a different standard (which he isn't) his behaviour during his career in F1 probably warrants it.

Edited by D.M.N., 19 May 2012 - 17:22.
remove URL, new thread created as a result of split


#19939 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:46

5727353[/url]']
Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....


Of course not. :p For each negative comment in the paddock, you'll find an equally positive one, especially from those closer to him. The ones who really know him as I am sure you do... Right?

5727379[/url]']
Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


Mature comments.
You don't need to have lived in four different continents to see things this way. Though admittedly, greater exposure does make it more likely, though by no means a guarantee. A close look at oneself quickly tempers the judgmental side. Traveling allows for this possibility since the contrasting experiences can make you no longer take some things for granted as true and correct. Not many do this since as quoted above, it can be difficult to do so even if one travels the bloody globe. I so see myself in Schumacher in terms of the flaws admixed with sincerity and the strong will to do well. That's the basic person and we get to see it all in someone who has achieved so much.. We try to say that he had it easy, but name the big achiever who simply didn't CONSISTENTLY make use of the opportunities offered him/her.
He may be in his twilight now, but he still definitely deserves to be where he is. The paddock is no exception for harboring egos that know no bounds. In fact, they are nurtured there. Be careful with any negative commentary about Schumi that amounts to a fundamental attack on his person. Comments like those of Joe Saward. He's just looking for some glory himself.



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#19940 RSNS

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 19:30

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Much as I admire Shcumacher I's driving (not sportmanship), I sadly agree that "mediocre" (in the sense of "very average") aptly describes Schumacher II's driving.

#19941 IceSkyrim

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:00

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.

Edited by IceSkyrim, 19 May 2012 - 20:02.


#19942 654321

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:14

so MS doesnt know how to manage tyres after 20+yrs in the bussiness?....

and btw: can u tell us what is the definiton of tyre managment

and just to help u a tad here: tyre managment is not the black art its made out to be..now i give u the ball...go for it m8

lets see what you gona hatch next

Edited by 654321, 19 May 2012 - 20:24.


#19943 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:19

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.



That's amusing, what are you on? I want it too.

#19944 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 21:12

5727785[/url]']
You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.


This is simply plain silly what you're getting at. If you have traction control at your disposal then you use it to your advantage. If you don't have it then you'll simply drive differently. It's all about strategy, isn't it? Rubens simply explained what Schumi did with traction control at his disposal.

#19945 Muz Bee

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:36

Hey you are letting your cardboard mask of un-bias slip there mate :p

Michael is being out-driven by precisely WHO this year? Lets be clear. I would suggest Alonso and Hamilton as the only two drivers one could reasonably state to be demonstrably outperforming him. Everyone else is all over the place.

You say he 'is no longer good enough', but what does that say about the current drivers?? Nico must according to you not be good enough. Jenson isnt good enough, Sebastian? Not good enough. They have all made mistakes and had mixed results, no better than Michael's performance in any way.

I think they are all good enough, as Michael clearly is too. He made ONE mistake while driving extremely well. Stop being silly.


Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


#19946 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:44

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


I agree with most of your post, but you're wrong if you think these Pirellis favour Schumacher. Tyre management has never been one of this strong points, he was successful in a F1 in which each stint was a sprint race.

#19947 bourbon

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:52

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.


Put up with Michael? What a bunch of garbage. I'm not a particular fan of Michael, but I've had enough of the media and pundits slamming the WDCs. Last year I would imagine this dude said the same thing about Hamilton and Macca. :down:

#19948 finignig

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:09

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.

#19949 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:25

I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.


The point was that both Senna and Schumacher were victims. Senna was a victim of his degrading tires and Schumacher was a victim of being too close behind a car with such problems at the end of that long straight. He just did not have the grip and downforce so close behind Senna's Williams and could not break properly anymore - if you give him the benefit of the doubt, that that was not a Coulthard-style lapse of perception.

"Idiot" would of course pertain to someone, who, with 20 years experience in F1, would come so close to a car with stricken tires at the end of the straight and have his normal aerodynamic downforce not work anymore.


#19950 4MEN

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:58

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


:up: :up: Nice reading.