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#19951 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:16

Thank you for the linguistic discussion people. :up:

In the end people perceive MS is not having a good time in F1.

On a personnal note, if I see somebody dear to me not doing well, with no hope of improvement, I expect/hop/wish him to drop the activity. IMO.

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#19952 artista

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:27

SID is a German agency, and in German they have written Schumacher "soll" (should) retire, not that they "expect" him to retire.

Here there is a link in German: http://www.motorspor...n_12051602.html

#19953 IceSkyrim

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:33

SID is a German agency, and in German they have written Schumacher "soll" (should) retire, not that they "expect" him to retire.

Here there is a link in German: http://www.motorspor...n_12051602.html

Thank you :up:

I was waiting for the feedback of the original news in German. ;)
"Schumacher should retire"

Anyway "want" was improper from my part, sorry all.

Edited by IceSkyrim, 18 May 2012 - 15:36.


#19954 Schumacher7

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 15:55

Thank you for the linguistic discussion people. :up:

In the end people perceive MS is not having a good time in F1.

On a personnal note, if I see somebody dear to me not doing well, with no hope of improvement, I expect/hop/wish him to drop the activity. IMO.

From a purely selfish point of view I'd rather he stayed as I enjoy watching him race, taking a step back however I can see how him hanging around when he clearly is no where near as good as he was, has no need to keep racing and is therefore potentially keeping a fast young racer out of a seat would frustrate people.

#19955 BetaVersion

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:09

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?

"After so many years of doing the sport which I love, and which myself and my family made so many sacrifices for, after so many years of trying to get to where we have gotten to at this point, this sport has changed a lot and it has changed to the point where I am not enjoying it.

"I don't have the passion for it and so at this time it's better if I retire now.

"There are a lot of things that have disappointed me, and also a lot of things I have loved about this sport, but unfortunately the balance has gone in the wrong direction."

Casey Stoner



#19956 ali_M

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:32

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?


As I read Stoner's words, I thought of Schumi. However, I think Schumi's love for the sport runs deeper. He had a longer career than Stoner and put up with a LOT of negative press during those years.

If his resilience is the same as in the past, I doubt that any negative press will sway him into retiring. It will be a personal decision based on what really prevails around him rather than what fans and the media are saying.

#19957 scheivlak

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Posted 18 May 2012 - 22:37

I read Stoner's words announcing his retirement and I thought it would perfectly fit a MSC announcement of retirement after this whole thing regarding the tires and etc

Don't you guys think those words could also be used by MSC this year?

There's a difference - from Casey's mouth they could be the words of a winner, from Michael's they are the words of a loser.

#19958 DutchCruijff

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 04:19

He'll stay because that's the kind of person he comes across as, a stubborn, determined git. He knows more than anyone else that his performances have been "on it" but he's been riddled with utter b*llshit it really is laughable. There's 15 races to go, his bad luck won't run for 15 more races and people will stop calling for his head.

#19959 Muz Bee

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:23

As I read Stoner's words, I thought of Schumi. However, I think Schumi's love for the sport runs deeper. He had a longer career than Stoner and put up with a LOT of negative press during those years.

If his resilience is the same as in the past, I doubt that any negative press will sway him into retiring. It will be a personal decision based on what really prevails around him rather than what fans and the media are saying.

Certainly is a contrast of careers. Casey retires at the top aged 26. Michael is still bashing around tripping over midfield drivers at the age of 43. But I like the suitability of Casey's retirement announcement being adopted.

Like Michael, Casey has his share of critics, among the fans more than the serious scribes. Casey never behaved poorly on track with unsporting behaviour but like Michael could be rather poor on the communications front. I am sad that CAsey is retiring because he still has it, plenty of it, and is the most spectacular rider on teh MGP bikes. Michael on teh other hand I would not miss as there are plenty of young bucks who would be aquickly on his pace if they got their chance. And while Casey could conceivably expect to win another 4 or more titles if he went on to normal retiring age of 34, Michael will never win another title, he simply is no longer good enough. If Stoner reached that point I would want him to quit immediately, like I think Rossi should and Michael should. Both noticeably past their peak and not in the top echelon of competitors.

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#19960 baddog

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 11:09

Hey you are letting your cardboard mask of un-bias slip there mate :p

Michael is being out-driven by precisely WHO this year? Lets be clear. I would suggest Alonso and Hamilton as the only two drivers one could reasonably state to be demonstrably outperforming him. Everyone else is all over the place.

You say he 'is no longer good enough', but what does that say about the current drivers?? Nico must according to you not be good enough. Jenson isnt good enough, Sebastian? Not good enough. They have all made mistakes and had mixed results, no better than Michael's performance in any way.

I think they are all good enough, as Michael clearly is too. He made ONE mistake while driving extremely well. Stop being silly.

#19961 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:20

He'll stay because that's the kind of person he comes across as, a stubborn, determined git. He knows more than anyone else that his performances have been "on it" but he's been riddled with utter b*llshit it really is laughable. There's 15 races to go, his bad luck won't run for 15 more races and people will stop calling for his head.


Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....

Edited by aditya-now, 19 May 2012 - 12:22.


#19962 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:51

Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.

Edited by Sakae, 19 May 2012 - 12:54.


#19963 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:53

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.


#19964 Kvothe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 12:54

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (otehrs say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


When either Lewis or Jenson stop on the apex of a chicane, to block another driver during a free practice session, will I agree with you.

Edited by Kvothe, 19 May 2012 - 12:56.


#19965 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:00

When either Lewis or Jenson stop on the apex of a chicane, to block another driver during a free practice session, will I agree with you.


Topic was last Schumacher's altercation with Senna, and pots-incident rhetorics in paddoc, media, and BBs, comparing with various events when in similar situation McLaren's drivers were involved. If you want to start your game on a different note, than I suggest (as someone here pointed out), you should create a list as of age eight, when mean Schumacher start messing kart event. Make a list, frame it, and post it every time someone disagrees with you.

Edited by Sakae, 19 May 2012 - 13:00.


#19966 aditya-now

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:00

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


I give you that, Sakae - Spain was extremely unlucky both for Schumi and for Senna - both were victims. Senna victim of degrading tires, Michael victim of an unsteerable car so close in the slipstream behind Senna at the end of the straight. Yes, in a way Michael himself was the idiot, he should have known that after so many years in the sport.

Interesting, Sakae, you lived on four continents, myself only on three - my homes were in Salzburg, Sao Paulo, New York City, Rome, Prague, Hamburg, Vienna, The Hague, Milan and Zurich. Where have you been around? Sorry, out of context.


#19967 ivand911

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:02

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.

BS, will never happen. Dream on. Heath doesn't have any credibility. I guess rumours came from his buddies @NobleF1, @andrewbensonf1, Joe Saward. Sorry ,but it sounds stupid, MGP screw MS so many time and now one incident and rumours started??? As you see nothing is connected with this tweet. It is simple malice. You should know that by now.

Edited by ivand911, 19 May 2012 - 13:55.


#19968 Sakae

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:02

I give you that, Sakae - Spain was extremely unlucky both for Schumi and for Senna - both were victims. Senna victim of degrading tires, Michael victim of an unsteerable car so close in the slipstream behind Senna at the end of the straight. Yes, in a way Michael himself was the idiot, he should have known that after so many years in the sport.

Interesting, Sakae, you lived on four continents, myself only on three - my homes were in Salzburg, Sao Paulo, New York City, Rome, Prague, Hamburg, Vienna, The Hague, Milan and Zurich. Where have you been around? Sorry, out of context.

EU, Africa, Americas, Japan.

#19969 Kvothe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:12

Topic was last Schumacher's altercation with Senna, and pots-incident rhetorics in paddoc, media, and BBs, comparing with various events when in similar situation McLaren's drivers were involved. If you want to start your game on a different note, than I suggest (as someone here pointed out), you should create a list as of age eight, when mean Schumacher start messing kart event. Make a list, frame it, and post it every time someone disagrees with you.


The fact is if Schumacher is held to a different standard (which he isn't) his behaviour during his career in F1 probably warrants it.

Edited by D.M.N., 19 May 2012 - 17:22.
remove URL, new thread created as a result of split


#19970 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:46

5727353[/url]']
Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....


Of course not. :p For each negative comment in the paddock, you'll find an equally positive one, especially from those closer to him. The ones who really know him as I am sure you do... Right?

5727379[/url]']
Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


Mature comments.
You don't need to have lived in four different continents to see things this way. Though admittedly, greater exposure does make it more likely, though by no means a guarantee. A close look at oneself quickly tempers the judgmental side. Traveling allows for this possibility since the contrasting experiences can make you no longer take some things for granted as true and correct. Not many do this since as quoted above, it can be difficult to do so even if one travels the bloody globe. I so see myself in Schumacher in terms of the flaws admixed with sincerity and the strong will to do well. That's the basic person and we get to see it all in someone who has achieved so much.. We try to say that he had it easy, but name the big achiever who simply didn't CONSISTENTLY make use of the opportunities offered him/her.
He may be in his twilight now, but he still definitely deserves to be where he is. The paddock is no exception for harboring egos that know no bounds. In fact, they are nurtured there. Be careful with any negative commentary about Schumi that amounts to a fundamental attack on his person. Comments like those of Joe Saward. He's just looking for some glory himself.



#19971 RSNS

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 19:30

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Much as I admire Shcumacher I's driving (not sportmanship), I sadly agree that "mediocre" (in the sense of "very average") aptly describes Schumacher II's driving.

#19972 IceSkyrim

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:00

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.

Edited by IceSkyrim, 19 May 2012 - 20:02.


#19973 654321

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:14

so MS doesnt know how to manage tyres after 20+yrs in the bussiness?....

and btw: can u tell us what is the definiton of tyre managment

and just to help u a tad here: tyre managment is not the black art its made out to be..now i give u the ball...go for it m8

lets see what you gona hatch next

Edited by 654321, 19 May 2012 - 20:24.


#19974 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:19

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.



That's amusing, what are you on? I want it too.

#19975 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 21:12

5727785[/url]']
You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.


This is simply plain silly what you're getting at. If you have traction control at your disposal then you use it to your advantage. If you don't have it then you'll simply drive differently. It's all about strategy, isn't it? Rubens simply explained what Schumi did with traction control at his disposal.

#19976 Muz Bee

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:36

Hey you are letting your cardboard mask of un-bias slip there mate :p

Michael is being out-driven by precisely WHO this year? Lets be clear. I would suggest Alonso and Hamilton as the only two drivers one could reasonably state to be demonstrably outperforming him. Everyone else is all over the place.

You say he 'is no longer good enough', but what does that say about the current drivers?? Nico must according to you not be good enough. Jenson isnt good enough, Sebastian? Not good enough. They have all made mistakes and had mixed results, no better than Michael's performance in any way.

I think they are all good enough, as Michael clearly is too. He made ONE mistake while driving extremely well. Stop being silly.


Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


#19977 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:44

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


I agree with most of your post, but you're wrong if you think these Pirellis favour Schumacher. Tyre management has never been one of this strong points, he was successful in a F1 in which each stint was a sprint race.

#19978 bourbon

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:52

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.


Put up with Michael? What a bunch of garbage. I'm not a particular fan of Michael, but I've had enough of the media and pundits slamming the WDCs. Last year I would imagine this dude said the same thing about Hamilton and Macca. :down:

#19979 finignig

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:09

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.

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#19980 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:25

I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.


The point was that both Senna and Schumacher were victims. Senna was a victim of his degrading tires and Schumacher was a victim of being too close behind a car with such problems at the end of that long straight. He just did not have the grip and downforce so close behind Senna's Williams and could not break properly anymore - if you give him the benefit of the doubt, that that was not a Coulthard-style lapse of perception.

"Idiot" would of course pertain to someone, who, with 20 years experience in F1, would come so close to a car with stricken tires at the end of the straight and have his normal aerodynamic downforce not work anymore.


#19981 4MEN

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:58

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


:up: :up: Nice reading.

#19982 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:16

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.

Any proof or just usual crap? What you expect from the guy with 4th fastest car in last two seasons and top 6-7car at the moment? In the best race this year he was going second in Nico best track. In all other tracks he was doing equal or better. What more you want? Was Button catching him in China? NO, guess he have speed. Did he beat Button and Webber in Q at Spain? Small hint for you, car is 93,5% responsible for the thing you call speed. And I guess you hear already they are not going 100% any more and MS is not happy about that. No speed, my ass.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 11:24.


#19983 Pits

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:17

People who say Schumacher is not good enough anymore are totally wrong and haven't looked closer at his racing.
He's been up to speed with Rosberg in 2011, and even a little bit faster. The only reason for Rosberg to have more points in the end is that he had less technical errors.
Same story for 2012 until now, Schumacher has been the quicker man overall, but hasn't had the best of luck to say the least.
People who deny this have no knowledge of F1, simple as that... :wave:

#19984 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:40

MS is having good time in Le Mans at the moment. Talking with Valentino. MotoGP. Maybe they are talking about MS speed deficit. :rotfl:
He is even presenting the trophy for wining Constructor.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 13:10.


#19985 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 14:01

MS is having good time in Le Mans at the moment. Talking with Valentino. MotoGP. Maybe they are talking about MS speed deficit. :rotfl:
He is even presenting the trophy for wining Constructor.


Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?


#19986 chrisaix

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:00

Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?


Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:

#19987 spacekid

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:05

Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:


I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.

#19988 chrisaix

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:15

I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.


We do have different opinions. And yes, i agreed they cannot win anymore on a consistent basis, but that doesnt mean they are not capable anymore of a win. The opposition might be to strong for ms, but i have seen and confident that if michael is confident with the car and is strong enough, he will win undoubtedly. He just needs a perfect weekend just like the past 5 winners.

#19989 SeanValen

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:25

We do have different opinions. And yes, i agreed they cannot win anymore on a consistent basis, but that doesnt mean they are not capable anymore of a win. The opposition might be to strong for ms, but i have seen and confident that if michael is confident with the car and is strong enough, he will win undoubtedly. He just needs a perfect weekend just like the past 5 winners.

I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.




This is a unique season where I think nobody is going to be as consistent as we've seen from winners in the past. I think this season it is hard for many to look consistent. Schumacher's badluck has been consistent, that's his man worry, and a trend he has to reset by keep on doing what's he's doing, it's a numbers game, in 3 decades of racing Schumahcer has largely overall done well, and his pace does not reflect the points he's gotten, it's just a matter of continue to drive hard and let everything else play out, maybe he was due more badluck, and others will get it at later parts of the season. Schumacher hasn't finished a lbert park race at mercedess, but he's looked good for a result in the past 3 years now, generally the start of seasons haven't gone his way, no more truer then this season so far, but he's driving much better then the early parts of 2010, but the competition is so wide, and lots of have finished, it's sort of masking what Schumacher can do and hopefully soon will.

This is a unique season, and I don't think any of us have seen such unpredictability, and it is the longest season of them all. Our last winner was Williams driver and who would of thought we would see Williams win a race at Spain over Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Mclaren, Lotus-Renault etc

,


The same situations that have prevented Schumi from doing well, may will play into his hands at some point, and that's relative to all drivers, but when your trying to analyse a season that's not even half a way through and with 5 different winners, iit's pretty clear this season is presenting a challenge that no other season has done so for forumers around the world!

Edited by SeanValen, 20 May 2012 - 15:30.


#19990 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 17:03

This is a unique season, and I don't think any of us have seen such unpredictability, and it is the longest season of them all. Our last winner was Williams driver and who would of thought we would see Williams win a race at Spain over Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Mclaren, Lotus-Renault etc


Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


#19991 Atonal

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 18:59

Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


So Aditya if Schumacher does win,which I doubt to be honest, will you come forward and say it was a victory deserved or shun it away as an abominable 'lottery', an unfair advantage like years gone by :) ? I believe you are very satisfied with the results of the season so far and do think that all were on merit?

#19992 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:04

So Aditya if Schumacher does win,which I doubt to be honest, will you come forward and say it was a victory deserved or shun it away as an abominable 'lottery', an unfair advantage like years gone by :) ? I believe you are very satisfied with the results of the season so far and do think that all were on merit?


Hi Atonal,

as I said many times in this 20.000 + thread, I will celebrate a Schumacher victory as the whole pit lane will. Remember Barrichello's so popular victory in 2009 - the whole pit lane was on its feet!

And I guarantee you, if and when Schumi wins, the whole pit lane will be an alley of applauding and cheering people! 2012 is definitely a good and maybe Michael's last chance to score a GP victory.

Regarding the "lottery"-word, please read my latest article at 2012 is no lottery!

Edited by aditya-now, 20 May 2012 - 19:08.


#19993 TheBunk

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:10

Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


We had 11 winners in 1982???? :eek: WOW!

#19994 puxanando

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:49

Reading HERE in this thread seems reading in a history-book :cat:

#19995 baddog

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:58

I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012.

Michael has EASILY been in the top 10 drivers for the entire last 3 years, and to say otherwise just means you are not even watching with any kind of effort. This year he has been a lot better than that. Glad to know where you are coming from though, thanks for the clarification.

#19996 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 20:01

I think that MS and Valentino can win again. In Valentino case it is even easier. Today result(2nd place) should prove that. I also think that MS was going for podium in China. They just need better machinery, also MS need some racing tyres. I watch today MotoGP and DTM and I didn't see such headache like Pirelli 2012. I saw real racing tyres. It is sad what F1 became. Tyre management exercise.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 20:03.


#19997 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:06

Michael has EASILY been in the top 10 drivers for the entire last 3 years


Yeah, but at the end of the day it's the results that count and so far he's been sorely lacking.

#19998 Pamphlet

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:16

Yeah, but at the end of the day it's the results that count and so far he's been sorely lacking.


If "You are only as good as your last race" was ever true then a whole slew of so-called legends would be considered subpar. Guess what - they're not.

Also, what the **** was that move on Hamilton all about, Michael.

Edited by Pamphlet, 21 May 2012 - 00:16.


#19999 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:25

I think that MS and Valentino can win again. In Valentino case it is even easier. Today result(2nd place) should prove that. I also think that MS was going for podium in China. They just need better machinery, also MS need some racing tyres. I watch today MotoGP and DTM and I didn't see such headache like Pirelli 2012. I saw real racing tyres. It is sad what F1 became. Tyre management exercise.

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.

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#20000 Pamphlet

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:54

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.


By all means, Michael still has it in him. Canada and Spa 2011 spring to mind.

Edited by Pamphlet, 21 May 2012 - 00:55.