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#19951 Kvothe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:12

Topic was last Schumacher's altercation with Senna, and pots-incident rhetorics in paddoc, media, and BBs, comparing with various events when in similar situation McLaren's drivers were involved. If you want to start your game on a different note, than I suggest (as someone here pointed out), you should create a list as of age eight, when mean Schumacher start messing kart event. Make a list, frame it, and post it every time someone disagrees with you.


The fact is if Schumacher is held to a different standard (which he isn't) his behaviour during his career in F1 probably warrants it.

Edited by D.M.N., 19 May 2012 - 17:22.
remove URL, new thread created as a result of split


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#19952 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 13:46

5727353[/url]']
Johan, there is already enough chatter in the pit lane - Joe Saward has been recently expressing it like this:

The ability to assess oneself honestly is vital in the job of being an F1 driver and a team boss (as in any employment where performance is important). A smart driver will always say “I screwed up” when he makes a mistake. That way he is respected much more by the team, and by sensible observers, than would be the case if he tried to shift the blame elsewhere.

I would say, for example, that Michael Schumacher needs to have a good look at himself and ask difficult questions, rather than saying that the tyres are not good and that Bruno Senna was to blame for the accident between them in Barcelona.


Of course, not many in this thread will be agreeing that he has a point....


Of course not. :p For each negative comment in the paddock, you'll find an equally positive one, especially from those closer to him. The ones who really know him as I am sure you do... Right?

5727379[/url]']
Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


Mature comments.
You don't need to have lived in four different continents to see things this way. Though admittedly, greater exposure does make it more likely, though by no means a guarantee. A close look at oneself quickly tempers the judgmental side. Traveling allows for this possibility since the contrasting experiences can make you no longer take some things for granted as true and correct. Not many do this since as quoted above, it can be difficult to do so even if one travels the bloody globe. I so see myself in Schumacher in terms of the flaws admixed with sincerity and the strong will to do well. That's the basic person and we get to see it all in someone who has achieved so much.. We try to say that he had it easy, but name the big achiever who simply didn't CONSISTENTLY make use of the opportunities offered him/her.
He may be in his twilight now, but he still definitely deserves to be where he is. The paddock is no exception for harboring egos that know no bounds. In fact, they are nurtured there. Be careful with any negative commentary about Schumi that amounts to a fundamental attack on his person. Comments like those of Joe Saward. He's just looking for some glory himself.



#19953 RSNS

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 19:30

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew Benson´s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Much as I admire Shcumacher I's driving (not sportmanship), I sadly agree that "mediocre" (in the sense of "very average") aptly describes Schumacher II's driving.

#19954 IceSkyrim

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:00

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.

Edited by IceSkyrim, 19 May 2012 - 20:02.


#19955 654321

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:14

so MS doesnt know how to manage tyres after 20+yrs in the bussiness?....

and btw: can u tell us what is the definiton of tyre managment

and just to help u a tad here: tyre managment is not the black art its made out to be..now i give u the ball...go for it m8

lets see what you gona hatch next

Edited by 654321, 19 May 2012 - 20:24.


#19956 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 20:19

You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.



That's amusing, what are you on? I want it too.

#19957 ali_M

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 21:12

5727785[/url]']
You have to bear in mind that nowadays biggest performance bottleneck is tire management.

However in his best days Schumacher never had to worry about tires, because he always rellied on Traction Control to make them last.

As Rubens used to say, Schumy used to start the race/stint giving it all, burning all the rubber he could in the first lap, then afterwards he just managed to keep on going over shot tires with the help of TC.

Schumacher doesn't know how to manage the tires, he is a driver out of his time.


This is simply plain silly what you're getting at. If you have traction control at your disposal then you use it to your advantage. If you don't have it then you'll simply drive differently. It's all about strategy, isn't it? Rubens simply explained what Schumi did with traction control at his disposal.

#19958 Muz Bee

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:36

Hey you are letting your cardboard mask of un-bias slip there mate :p

Michael is being out-driven by precisely WHO this year? Lets be clear. I would suggest Alonso and Hamilton as the only two drivers one could reasonably state to be demonstrably outperforming him. Everyone else is all over the place.

You say he 'is no longer good enough', but what does that say about the current drivers?? Nico must according to you not be good enough. Jenson isnt good enough, Sebastian? Not good enough. They have all made mistakes and had mixed results, no better than Michael's performance in any way.

I think they are all good enough, as Michael clearly is too. He made ONE mistake while driving extremely well. Stop being silly.


Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


#19959 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:44

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


I agree with most of your post, but you're wrong if you think these Pirellis favour Schumacher. Tyre management has never been one of this strong points, he was successful in a F1 in which each stint was a sprint race.

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#19960 bourbon

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:52

QUOTE
Darren Heath ‏ @F1Photographer
Just how much longer will #f1 #mercedes put up with #schumacher ? Rumours of a big name replacement are gathering a pace.

The whole thing has been simmering for a while now - Lewis replacing Michael at Merc, which is logical in many ways, given his connections with Norbert and Nico. And it saves the face for Mercedes.


Put up with Michael? What a bunch of garbage. I'm not a particular fan of Michael, but I've had enough of the media and pundits slamming the WDCs. Last year I would imagine this dude said the same thing about Hamilton and Macca. :down:

#19961 finignig

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 09:09

Yes, right you are. I have travelled around the globe a few times, and made living on four continents, yet towards end of my life I can tell you that creating moral template and expecting that all people will fit the frame has never worked properly. Saward's expectations are his only, and he can live with those, no problem. Point being, that Schumacher has come out from a slightly different culture, and for those of us who follow him long enough we know that he is a sincere person who has admitted to a mistake when he felt like that. Obviously this time he expected something else, and I do not pretend that I know what it was. (Like Vettel in Turkey). I think about it like synchronized swiming, and if one deviates, pile of them go down. I am not blaiming Senna; all what I am saying is that I do not understand techical side of the incident, but just from watching Michael, there was something else in this. Could be that word "idiot" was just a relieve valve open (others say s**t), maybe he was angry with himself. I am not sure, but based on his performance this year I would be careful to write him off, and baseless, far encompassing attack on him is really uncalled for, as pecially when there is one standard for Schumacher, and another for McLaren boys. F1 of today is markedly different from times when he chased Senna and/or Prost, yet he has adopted well. My compliment to him.


I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.

#19962 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:25

I am convinced that’s how he meant it, I scream out idiot at myself when am angry with myself, thats the first impression I got when heard it live and will stick to my gut feeling.


The point was that both Senna and Schumacher were victims. Senna was a victim of his degrading tires and Schumacher was a victim of being too close behind a car with such problems at the end of that long straight. He just did not have the grip and downforce so close behind Senna's Williams and could not break properly anymore - if you give him the benefit of the doubt, that that was not a Coulthard-style lapse of perception.

"Idiot" would of course pertain to someone, who, with 20 years experience in F1, would come so close to a car with stricken tires at the end of the straight and have his normal aerodynamic downforce not work anymore.


#19963 4MEN

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 10:58

Come on baddog. Who's cardboard mask? Michael with 2 points. I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012. Despite struggling to massage the tyres on the tyre shredder that's MGP03, Rosberg has had the upper hand despite a very erratic start to the season apart from China. Vettel has done a pretty good job of salvaging the situation, Alonso looks to be doing the same, Button has had some marvelous moments, Hamilton is looking composed and quick, Perez is a revelation, Maldonado is shaping into a pretty worthy driver in this company. I would suggest that Webber is easily the match of Michael and I'd have Paul di Resta in my future star lineup. I haven't even mentioned the two Lotus drivers are doing a sterling job.

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.


:up: :up: Nice reading.

#19964 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:16

Time waits for no man. Michael is doing an excellent job - for a man of his age who had 3 years off. Maybe he brings an enormous wealth of development driving to a team but for sheer speed he hasn't got it. I would speculate also that the Plastic Pirellis favour the old fox who, while struggling for all out pace can use his guile to massage the endurance out of a set of tired tyres! Certainly the old 0.5 gap in qualifying of 2010/11 returned in China where Rosberg looked more like himself. Time will tell in 2012 and I could well be proven wrong but I think normal transmission will be resumed once they get to grips with the Pirellis.

Any proof or just usual crap? What you expect from the guy with 4th fastest car in last two seasons and top 6-7car at the moment? In the best race this year he was going second in Nico best track. In all other tracks he was doing equal or better. What more you want? Was Button catching him in China? NO, guess he have speed. Did he beat Button and Webber in Q at Spain? Small hint for you, car is 93,5% responsible for the thing you call speed. And I guess you hear already they are not going 100% any more and MS is not happy about that. No speed, my ass.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 11:24.


#19965 Pits

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:17

People who say Schumacher is not good enough anymore are totally wrong and haven't looked closer at his racing.
He's been up to speed with Rosberg in 2011, and even a little bit faster. The only reason for Rosberg to have more points in the end is that he had less technical errors.
Same story for 2012 until now, Schumacher has been the quicker man overall, but hasn't had the best of luck to say the least.
People who deny this have no knowledge of F1, simple as that... :wave:

#19966 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 11:40

MS is having good time in Le Mans at the moment. Talking with Valentino. MotoGP. Maybe they are talking about MS speed deficit. :rotfl:
He is even presenting the trophy for wining Constructor.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 13:10.


#19967 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 14:01

MS is having good time in Le Mans at the moment. Talking with Valentino. MotoGP. Maybe they are talking about MS speed deficit. :rotfl:
He is even presenting the trophy for wining Constructor.


Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?


#19968 chrisaix

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:00

Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?


Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:

#19969 spacekid

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:05

Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:


I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.

#19970 chrisaix

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:15

I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.


We do have different opinions. And yes, i agreed they cannot win anymore on a consistent basis, but that doesnt mean they are not capable anymore of a win. The opposition might be to strong for ms, but i have seen and confident that if michael is confident with the car and is strong enough, he will win undoubtedly. He just needs a perfect weekend just like the past 5 winners.

#19971 SeanValen

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 15:25

We do have different opinions. And yes, i agreed they cannot win anymore on a consistent basis, but that doesnt mean they are not capable anymore of a win. The opposition might be to strong for ms, but i have seen and confident that if michael is confident with the car and is strong enough, he will win undoubtedly. He just needs a perfect weekend just like the past 5 winners.

I'm not convinced. Maybe if the stars align and circumstances allow either of them could snatch one last win, but I don't see any way either of them are returning to consistent race wins. Both are off their peak, don't have the machinery to do it, and the opposition is too strong.




This is a unique season where I think nobody is going to be as consistent as we've seen from winners in the past. I think this season it is hard for many to look consistent. Schumacher's badluck has been consistent, that's his man worry, and a trend he has to reset by keep on doing what's he's doing, it's a numbers game, in 3 decades of racing Schumahcer has largely overall done well, and his pace does not reflect the points he's gotten, it's just a matter of continue to drive hard and let everything else play out, maybe he was due more badluck, and others will get it at later parts of the season. Schumacher hasn't finished a lbert park race at mercedess, but he's looked good for a result in the past 3 years now, generally the start of seasons haven't gone his way, no more truer then this season so far, but he's driving much better then the early parts of 2010, but the competition is so wide, and lots of have finished, it's sort of masking what Schumacher can do and hopefully soon will.

This is a unique season, and I don't think any of us have seen such unpredictability, and it is the longest season of them all. Our last winner was Williams driver and who would of thought we would see Williams win a race at Spain over Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Mclaren, Lotus-Renault etc

,


The same situations that have prevented Schumi from doing well, may will play into his hands at some point, and that's relative to all drivers, but when your trying to analyse a season that's not even half a way through and with 5 different winners, iit's pretty clear this season is presenting a challenge that no other season has done so for forumers around the world!

Edited by SeanValen, 20 May 2012 - 15:30.


#19972 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 17:03

This is a unique season, and I don't think any of us have seen such unpredictability, and it is the longest season of them all. Our last winner was Williams driver and who would of thought we would see Williams win a race at Spain over Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, Mclaren, Lotus-Renault etc


Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


#19973 Atonal

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 18:59

Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


So Aditya if Schumacher does win,which I doubt to be honest, will you come forward and say it was a victory deserved or shun it away as an abominable 'lottery', an unfair advantage like years gone by :) ? I believe you are very satisfied with the results of the season so far and do think that all were on merit?

#19974 aditya-now

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:04

So Aditya if Schumacher does win,which I doubt to be honest, will you come forward and say it was a victory deserved or shun it away as an abominable 'lottery', an unfair advantage like years gone by :) ? I believe you are very satisfied with the results of the season so far and do think that all were on merit?


Hi Atonal,

as I said many times in this 20.000 + thread, I will celebrate a Schumacher victory as the whole pit lane will. Remember Barrichello's so popular victory in 2009 - the whole pit lane was on its feet!

And I guarantee you, if and when Schumi wins, the whole pit lane will be an alley of applauding and cheering people! 2012 is definitely a good and maybe Michael's last chance to score a GP victory.

Regarding the "lottery"-word, please read my latest article at 2012 is no lottery!

Edited by aditya-now, 20 May 2012 - 19:08.


#19975 TheBunk

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:10

Have you not been around in 1982, Sean?

To me, that season still stands out and it nearly killed me twice with Villeneuve's and Pironi's accidents. Even with these two tops drivers gone, 1982 was a real classic season, and the whole "unpredictability" issue extended well into 1983 (the first five races) as well.

Seasons still keenly remembered, as 2012 will be as well.

Looking at the positives for Schumi, 2012 is exactly the kind of season in which he should score that elusive last win for which he came back. I am quite sure he will not make it to 100 which was the original unofficial goal, yet one win will let Schumi re-retire in all honors. If 2012 provides 11 winners like 1982, how on earth should Schumi manage not to win? Especially as it is the longest season of them all with 20 races versus only 16 races we had back in 1982.


We had 11 winners in 1982???? :eek: WOW!

#19976 puxanando

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:49

Reading HERE in this thread seems reading in a history-book :cat:

#19977 baddog

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 19:58

I would not have Michael Schumacher in the top 10 of F1 drivers at any time in 2010, 2011 or the crazy opening paragraphs of 2012.

Michael has EASILY been in the top 10 drivers for the entire last 3 years, and to say otherwise just means you are not even watching with any kind of effort. This year he has been a lot better than that. Glad to know where you are coming from though, thanks for the clarification.

#19978 ivand911

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Posted 20 May 2012 - 20:01

I think that MS and Valentino can win again. In Valentino case it is even easier. Today result(2nd place) should prove that. I also think that MS was going for podium in China. They just need better machinery, also MS need some racing tyres. I watch today MotoGP and DTM and I didn't see such headache like Pirelli 2012. I saw real racing tyres. It is sad what F1 became. Tyre management exercise.

Edited by ivand911, 20 May 2012 - 20:03.


#19979 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:06

Michael has EASILY been in the top 10 drivers for the entire last 3 years


Yeah, but at the end of the day it's the results that count and so far he's been sorely lacking.

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#19980 Pamphlet

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:16

Yeah, but at the end of the day it's the results that count and so far he's been sorely lacking.


If "You are only as good as your last race" was ever true then a whole slew of so-called legends would be considered subpar. Guess what - they're not.

Also, what the **** was that move on Hamilton all about, Michael.

Edited by Pamphlet, 21 May 2012 - 00:16.


#19981 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:25

I think that MS and Valentino can win again. In Valentino case it is even easier. Today result(2nd place) should prove that. I also think that MS was going for podium in China. They just need better machinery, also MS need some racing tyres. I watch today MotoGP and DTM and I didn't see such headache like Pirelli 2012. I saw real racing tyres. It is sad what F1 became. Tyre management exercise.

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.

#19982 Pamphlet

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 00:54

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.


By all means, Michael still has it in him. Canada and Spa 2011 spring to mind.

Edited by Pamphlet, 21 May 2012 - 00:55.


#19983 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:09

By all means, Michael still has it in him. Canada and Spa 2011 spring to mind.


Don't forget Monza 2011. I was astonished at the fight in him there. A lot of controversy, yes, but it was then that his motivation and skill were confirmed for me still to be quite there. Once he smells a very good result, he tends to come into his own and perform that much better.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 02:50.


#19984 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:42

I hope he does well at Monaco.

#19985 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:04

Don't forget Monza 2011. I was astonished at the fight in him there. A lot of controversy, yes, but it was then that his motivation and skill was confirmed for me still to be quite there. Once he smells a very good result, he tends to come into his own and perform that much better.

Does this mean the old magic is still there, lying below the surface waiting to be rekindled? Just curious.....
Certainly Rossi at 33 turned back the clock yesterday with a fine ride which had been long overdue. His bad days - a bit like Michael - seem to be more common.
If I was honest I haven't been that impressed with Rosberg this year (inconsistent) apart from China of course which was really top shelf.

#19986 BetaVersion

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:48

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.


I think MSC fans will have to wait for Canada for an eventual shot at the win.

#19987 cdracer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:26

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.

Edited by cdracer, 21 May 2012 - 09:26.


#19988 CoolBreeze

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:28

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


Niki Lauda? Is that you? :lol:

#19989 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:36

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving

Slowing down as someone passes you (without any danger) and waving a hand at them is the most laughably mild case of road rage I ever heard of.. maybe you need to watch some OLD races to get a little perspective.

#19990 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:38

I think even with 5 places penalty, there is chance to do some nice things in Monaco, especially with these tyres, i think we have 4 stopper.

#19991 FenderJaguar

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:40

I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


I agree. Him trying to pass Bruno was clumsy and poor judgement. Maybe he will get some luck in Monaco to turn this around.

#19992 Owen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:43

I hope he does well at Monaco.

He needs to, read the Paul Di Resta thread.


#19993 Raelene

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:48

sounds like it will be Michael's decision - not Mercedes....and considering the way the Mercedes have been stuffing him up - more than him letting them down - then can't say I'd blame Michael for leaving at the end of the year

if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue


seems some have a lot of wishful thinking after ONE poor performance from MSC this year

#19994 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:53

If the dont renew Schumi contract at the end of the year, i would love to see him rock up at Red bull with his mate Seb

#19995 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:55

Or even in for Massa at his home, Ferrari

#19996 as65p

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:07

Slowing down as someone passes you (without any danger) and waving a hand at them is the most laughably mild case of road rage I ever heard of.. maybe you need to watch some OLD races to get a little perspective.


You might be onto something here. :)

#19997 dionisi

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:20

I hope he will take his ex-teammate and leave f-1. they wont shame themselves anymore.

#19998 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:43

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:

Make up your own mind ... watch the whole thing. Look at the entire person through the entire episode. See buildup, see context, see aftermath. Look with an open mind. DO NOT be judgmental... we've all been there.

Don't watch selective footage and commentary from one of MANY network sports channels looking for ways to maintain/increase viewership. These channels provide great live footage, but don't let them draw you into their sensationalism.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 11:00.


#19999 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:54

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.



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#20000 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:13

The article with PDR is rather unfortunate, unnecessary and premature, if it is really up to Michael to decide on his future with the team. It will fuel a lot of redundant speculations, and make his life just more difficult, as psychological pressure in the paddock from media will undoubtedly increase. I am not PDR fan, I love Mercedes brand, and I wish they would make a different choice altogether. There is no decision regarding CA as far as public is concern, but should they stay, I hope Michael will continue.