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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#20001 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:09

By all means, Michael still has it in him. Canada and Spa 2011 spring to mind.


Don't forget Monza 2011. I was astonished at the fight in him there. A lot of controversy, yes, but it was then that his motivation and skill were confirmed for me still to be quite there. Once he smells a very good result, he tends to come into his own and perform that much better.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 02:50.


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#20002 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:42

I hope he does well at Monaco.

#20003 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:04

Don't forget Monza 2011. I was astonished at the fight in him there. A lot of controversy, yes, but it was then that his motivation and skill was confirmed for me still to be quite there. Once he smells a very good result, he tends to come into his own and perform that much better.

Does this mean the old magic is still there, lying below the surface waiting to be rekindled? Just curious.....
Certainly Rossi at 33 turned back the clock yesterday with a fine ride which had been long overdue. His bad days - a bit like Michael - seem to be more common.
If I was honest I haven't been that impressed with Rosberg this year (inconsistent) apart from China of course which was really top shelf.

#20004 BetaVersion

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 02:48

Right in what you say Ivan, in that Vale looked really racey today. For sure he could win on that bike in the wet where it seems to excel. Like Michael could win in the crazy 2012 Pirelli lottery if his teammate doesn't beat him. Nico aced it in Shanghai not two ways about that but he has been strangely out of sorts at some races this year. I think Michael's experience has perhaps helped him when the car has been at it's most difficult in terms of race setup. Under normal racing though I don't think Michael is better than a 1:50 to win.


I think MSC fans will have to wait for Canada for an eventual shot at the win.

#20005 cdracer

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:26

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.

Edited by cdracer, 21 May 2012 - 09:26.


#20006 CoolBreeze

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:28

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


Niki Lauda? Is that you? :lol:

#20007 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:36

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving

Slowing down as someone passes you (without any danger) and waving a hand at them is the most laughably mild case of road rage I ever heard of.. maybe you need to watch some OLD races to get a little perspective.

#20008 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:38

I think even with 5 places penalty, there is chance to do some nice things in Monaco, especially with these tyres, i think we have 4 stopper.

#20009 FenderJaguar

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:40

I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


I agree. Him trying to pass Bruno was clumsy and poor judgement. Maybe he will get some luck in Monaco to turn this around.

#20010 Owen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:43

I hope he does well at Monaco.

He needs to, read the Paul Di Resta thread.


#20011 Raelene

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:48

sounds like it will be Michael's decision - not Mercedes....and considering the way the Mercedes have been stuffing him up - more than him letting them down - then can't say I'd blame Michael for leaving at the end of the year

if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue


seems some have a lot of wishful thinking after ONE poor performance from MSC this year

#20012 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:53

If the dont renew Schumi contract at the end of the year, i would love to see him rock up at Red bull with his mate Seb

#20013 Hacklerf

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 09:55

Or even in for Massa at his home, Ferrari

#20014 as65p

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:07

Slowing down as someone passes you (without any danger) and waving a hand at them is the most laughably mild case of road rage I ever heard of.. maybe you need to watch some OLD races to get a little perspective.


You might be onto something here. :)

#20015 dionisi

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:20

I hope he will take his ex-teammate and leave f-1. they wont shame themselves anymore.

#20016 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:43

Having just watched skys f1 show where they showed him committing an act of road rage, I was shocked at his driving, with all his experience he should know better and show by example.
I think the frustration is starting to get at him just look at the crash in the race,
Its time to hang up you helmet for good Michael while you still have a reputation.


Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:

Make up your own mind ... watch the whole thing. Look at the entire person through the entire episode. See buildup, see context, see aftermath. Look with an open mind. DO NOT be judgmental... we've all been there.

Don't watch selective footage and commentary from one of MANY network sports channels looking for ways to maintain/increase viewership. These channels provide great live footage, but don't let them draw you into their sensationalism.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 11:00.


#20017 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 10:54

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.



#20018 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:13

The article with PDR is rather unfortunate, unnecessary and premature, if it is really up to Michael to decide on his future with the team. It will fuel a lot of redundant speculations, and make his life just more difficult, as psychological pressure in the paddock from media will undoubtedly increase. I am not PDR fan, I love Mercedes brand, and I wish they would make a different choice altogether. There is no decision regarding CA as far as public is concern, but should they stay, I hope Michael will continue.

#20019 SeanValen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:17

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.



Spanish stewards at Monaco 2006, started from the pitlane. The penality deserved 10 place drop at best.


Monaco 2010, robbed of 4th place points for a legal overtake on Alonso at the end. Brawn and Schumacher idendified a area of the rules and exploited it, the penality never made sense.

Monaco 5 place drop by Spanish stewards-Monaco 2012
Schumacher's merchanical DNF from Monaco 2011

FIA and technical issues have been Schumacher's competitors more so then f1 drivers at Monaco in past 3 years. Driving wise he's been solid there and pretty much has for 3 decades!

Edited by SeanValen, 21 May 2012 - 11:18.


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#20020 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:18

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.


I'd say arguably unjust and not totally. I'm an avid Schumacher fan... though not one of the 'he can do no wrong' types. :)

I can see where they'd come down on him for that. He was a bit overenthusiastic there and got himself into an unnecessary bind. I shook my head when I saw it happen since my immediate reaction was that it seemed avoidable, even though Senna was up to stuff. I didn't take that one at all in the same way that I took his Malaysia early race incident.

I guess the point of the collision being unnecessary was the reason for the penalty. It was not at all unlike Singapore last year, i.e., problems with the car in front; but you know.... I still couldn't help but feel it was definitely avoidable.

Of course, I'd not make a wholesale attack on his race craft and driving ability over the incident. I don't see the point in that... may as well we do that with Hamilton after last years and other messups on his part. At the end of the day, I'm happy that Michael is enthusiastic about achieving on track .... the enthusiasm will pay off in some instances and lead to what happened last race in other instances. Hopefully, they pay off more than they go sour.

He, like Hamilton last year, has a balance to make so that these ontrack incidents are minimised. He needs a bit of Kimi but not too much. :) It's quite notable that Hamilton's pace and driving ability were never really in question last year. It was all his mental application. This is how I'd judge Michael's Barcelona incident. Not an issue of driving ability, but one of mental application on the spur of the moment because of overenthusiasm and so much wanting to achieve.

I feel for him and wish for him to do well next race. I think he deserves a good result at this juncture.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 11:21.


#20021 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:26

Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:

Make up your own mind ... watch the whole thing. Look at the entire person through the entire episode. See buildup, see context, see aftermath. Look with an open mind. DO NOT be judgmental... we've all been there.

Don't watch selective footage and commentary from one of MANY network sports channels looking for ways to maintain/increase viewership. These channels provide great live footage, but don't let them draw you into their sensationalism.


Have done that and still think he was a total idiot that weekend. He is lucky that the only real punishment is the 5 place grid drop. In the incident with LH there was a real risk of collision and personally I think he got off very lightly with that one.

#20022 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:28

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.


There is nothing unjust about the penalty.

#20023 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:30

Schumacher caused another driver to DNF the race.

Shouldn't he get a penalty :confused:

People want to turn F1 into NASCAR. :down:

#20024 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:35

Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:


Kinda like the sensationalism that goes on around here.......

#20025 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:44

I can see where they'd come down on him for that. He was a bit overenthusiastic there and got himself into an unnecessary bind. I shook my head when I saw it happen since my immediate reaction was that it seemed avoidable, even though Senna was up to stuff...

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents in which I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel without any problems in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity of people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.

Edited by Sakae, 21 May 2012 - 11:52.


#20026 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:49

Have done that and still think he was a total idiot that weekend. He is lucky that the only real punishment is the 5 place grid drop. In the incident with LH there was a real risk of collision and personally I think he got off very lightly with that one.

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


#20027 flyer121

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:54

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents where I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


I know why a fan might feel that the penalty was unfair but really speaking - what else could it have been?

Schumi did spoil the race of a driver whose teammate went on to win (so Senna could ve finished with some decent points) ... and it was an awkward move from Schumi as well - not just Senna.

Since Schumi hit him from the back , he had more say in avoiding the incident - plain and simple. Since Schumi DNFed , he cant be given a time penalty and the only way around is a grid penalty ...

While I m not a fan of carrying penalties to next race weekends , there had to be some punishment and he got the lighter grid penalty (5 places) - so fair in my book.
The only unlucky bit is the next race is Monaco where grid penalty means more of a disadvantage!!

Edited by flyer121, 21 May 2012 - 11:56.


#20028 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:56

For me this is one in series of incidents where I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

#20029 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:57

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.

#20030 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:05

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.

Yes, but... did them called the other driver "idiot" :p

5 grid penalty for cursing  ;)

Edited by IceSkyrim, 21 May 2012 - 12:08.


#20031 flyer121

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:10

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.


Webber flying may be comparabe but he provided the only spectacle in that otherwise boring race , so Stewards may have let him off :). Plus Kova wasnt about to finish in points anyway.

But I wonder when Webber crashed Hamilton out without it being a 50 50 fault allocation ?

#20032 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:15

Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

You of course reffering to Spa incident. Just bringing that up perhaps say more about you than Schumacher, because by now I thought whole racing community understood what happened on that day.

#20033 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:22

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.

#20034 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:23

But I wonder when Webber crashed Hamilton out without it being a 50 50 fault allocation ?

Australia 2011 ?

#20035 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:25

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.


HK incident is comparable, but when did MW cause a race ending crash with LH?


#20036 Jejking

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:34

HK incident is comparable, but when did MW cause a race ending crash with LH?

Singapore 2010.

Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:

#20037 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:37

You of course reffering to Spa incident. Just bringing that up perhaps say more about you than Schumacher, because by now I thought whole racing community understood what happened on that day.


Just what exactly does that say about me? You said that he raced at 300kph next to the likes of Prost, DC and Mika inferring that there were no issues or incidents with them, yet he has trouble with so called 'lesser' drivers.

#20038 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:39

Singapore 2010.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:


I said, the stewards saw it that way and nothing more and I agree with them.

#20039 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:41

Based on recent precedent the penalty was more or less inevitable. I don't personally like penalties for such errors, thinking they should be reserved for insane 'made to fail' overtaking stabs and very harsh cutoffs coming out of corners etc, but that's the game these days.

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#20040 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:45

Singapore 2010.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:


That wasn't a bonehead move by MW or one that he could rightly be held to blame for.

#20041 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:52

Based on recent precedent the penalty was more or less inevitable. I don't personally like penalties for such errors, thinking they should be reserved for insane 'made to fail' overtaking stabs and very harsh cutoffs coming out of corners etc, but that's the game these days.

Then again... Nico managed to get a clean pass over Senna, Grosjean enforced his way by the cost of a frong wing piece.

Schumacher was held by Senna for an entire lap. Schumy saw Nico and Groo getting away and felt the despair to be left behind and took desperate measures.

Then again... if Nico can, why can't Schumacher ?

#20042 Callisto

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:03

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.

:up:

#20043 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:09

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents in which I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel without any problems in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity of people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


There's a certain thing called defensive driving and this applies both in racing as well as on public roads. In such a situation, he's clearly taking a risk by utterly depending on Senna to do the right thing in a very tight situation. A small modicum of leeway should be left for the driver in front not doing the right thing. This is why you see so many times a driver backs off when attempting a pass. Why? Committing to an attempt at a pass in so many situations is just too risky for both. To make it worse, Schumi was coming from behind. The result is that Schumacher runs right in the back of the Senna, ruining Senna's race and his, of course. It's really only in exceptional circumstances that a driver can run squarely into the back of another driver and not be held liable for it. I don't think this was one of them.

Schumi, Hamilton and Montoya are all quite similar. They can be spectacular overtakers when it works out. However, they'll be the ones to have many ontrack incidents. A. Senna was another to have many ontrack incidents. This is a side effect of what makes them special. However, the penalties will come too. Just be ready for them. Ask Lewis about it. :)

#20044 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:19

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew BensonĀ“s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Hi Andrew :wave: Another column shot down by Merc boss about Schumachers future!

He needs to, read the Paul Di Resta thread.


I did. And the actual quote from Nick fry is: 'if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue'. So, its up to Michael, no Di Resta, or Mercedes.

Nice vote of confidence from the team. :up:



#20045 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:20

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.


You're way too emotional. Get a hold of yourself man. :well:

You know where emotions get you. Here you are, being so judgmental of emotional behaviour and then you do the very same yourself.

Schumi was upset and reacted in the heat of the moment. You're behind your keyboard and in a warm chair. You'll see things far more clearly if you calm down.

A race ban? :stoned:

#20046 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:26

Just what exactly does that say about me? You said that he raced at 300kph next to the likes of Prost, DC and Mika inferring that there were no issues or incidents with them, yet he has trouble with so called 'lesser' drivers.


Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to bring up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 17:02.


#20047 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:30

You're way too emotional. Get a hold of yourself man. :well:

You know where emotions get you. Here you are, being so judgmental of emotional behaviour and then you do the very same yourself.

Schumi was upset and reacted in the heat of the moment. You're behind your keyboard and in a warm chair. You'll see things far more clearly if you calm down.

A race ban? :stoned:


Rubbish. I'm perfectly calm. The incident wasn't even shown live, and that's when emotions would be high. What I saw was highly dangerous and I don't care how upset you think MS was, there is no place for those sort of actions and they should not be tolerated in anyway. A race ban would not have been out of order.

#20048 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:31

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.


Except that :
- you don't know what Lewis was thinking and doing, since we don't know what happened before Michael reacted.
- he didn't sit on the corner, just slowed down (probably he just wanted to ruin Lewis' next lap)
- there was no risk of collision whatsoever. Immature, certainly. Dangerous, no.

You ask for a race ban without having even half the info. They went to stewards, gave their opinions and Michael was penalized. From a reprimand to a race ban is a long way.

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:33.


#20049 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:33

Except that :
- you don't know what Lewis was thinking and doing, since we don't know what happened before Michael reacted. True, but I don't believe it was a deliberate move
- he didn't sit on the corner, just slowed down (probably he just wanted to ruin Lewis' next lap) You can call it what you like, but he positioned himself on the corner exit
- there was no risk of collision whatsoever Disagree



#20050 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:36

So explain why you believe there was a risk of collision. It wasn't at high speed, Lewis could see Michael from a long way and when rejoining Michael didn't do unpredictable maneuvers (i.e. accelerate and brake hard). This wasn't even a brake test.

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:38.