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#20001 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:18

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.


I'd say arguably unjust and not totally. I'm an avid Schumacher fan... though not one of the 'he can do no wrong' types. :)

I can see where they'd come down on him for that. He was a bit overenthusiastic there and got himself into an unnecessary bind. I shook my head when I saw it happen since my immediate reaction was that it seemed avoidable, even though Senna was up to stuff. I didn't take that one at all in the same way that I took his Malaysia early race incident.

I guess the point of the collision being unnecessary was the reason for the penalty. It was not at all unlike Singapore last year, i.e., problems with the car in front; but you know.... I still couldn't help but feel it was definitely avoidable.

Of course, I'd not make a wholesale attack on his race craft and driving ability over the incident. I don't see the point in that... may as well we do that with Hamilton after last years and other messups on his part. At the end of the day, I'm happy that Michael is enthusiastic about achieving on track .... the enthusiasm will pay off in some instances and lead to what happened last race in other instances. Hopefully, they pay off more than they go sour.

He, like Hamilton last year, has a balance to make so that these ontrack incidents are minimised. He needs a bit of Kimi but not too much. :) It's quite notable that Hamilton's pace and driving ability were never really in question last year. It was all his mental application. This is how I'd judge Michael's Barcelona incident. Not an issue of driving ability, but one of mental application on the spur of the moment because of overenthusiasm and so much wanting to achieve.

I feel for him and wish for him to do well next race. I think he deserves a good result at this juncture.

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 11:21.


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#20002 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:26

Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:

Make up your own mind ... watch the whole thing. Look at the entire person through the entire episode. See buildup, see context, see aftermath. Look with an open mind. DO NOT be judgmental... we've all been there.

Don't watch selective footage and commentary from one of MANY network sports channels looking for ways to maintain/increase viewership. These channels provide great live footage, but don't let them draw you into their sensationalism.


Have done that and still think he was a total idiot that weekend. He is lucky that the only real punishment is the 5 place grid drop. In the incident with LH there was a real risk of collision and personally I think he got off very lightly with that one.

#20003 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:28

I think he would have done really well at Monaco but that crazy and totally unjust penalty has ruined his race before it starts.


There is nothing unjust about the penalty.

#20004 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:30

Schumacher caused another driver to DNF the race.

Shouldn't he get a penalty :confused:

People want to turn F1 into NASCAR. :down:

#20005 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:35

Please, don't be drugged/duped by the media sensationalism. Give the media some time with you and you'd be surprised what they'd turn YOU into.... YES YOU!!. :lol:


Kinda like the sensationalism that goes on around here.......

#20006 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:44

I can see where they'd come down on him for that. He was a bit overenthusiastic there and got himself into an unnecessary bind. I shook my head when I saw it happen since my immediate reaction was that it seemed avoidable, even though Senna was up to stuff...

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents in which I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel without any problems in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity of people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.

Edited by Sakae, 21 May 2012 - 11:52.


#20007 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:49

Have done that and still think he was a total idiot that weekend. He is lucky that the only real punishment is the 5 place grid drop. In the incident with LH there was a real risk of collision and personally I think he got off very lightly with that one.

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


#20008 flyer121

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:54

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents where I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


I know why a fan might feel that the penalty was unfair but really speaking - what else could it have been?

Schumi did spoil the race of a driver whose teammate went on to win (so Senna could ve finished with some decent points) ... and it was an awkward move from Schumi as well - not just Senna.

Since Schumi hit him from the back , he had more say in avoiding the incident - plain and simple. Since Schumi DNFed , he cant be given a time penalty and the only way around is a grid penalty ...

While I m not a fan of carrying penalties to next race weekends , there had to be some punishment and he got the lighter grid penalty (5 places) - so fair in my book.
The only unlucky bit is the next race is Monaco where grid penalty means more of a disadvantage!!

Edited by flyer121, 21 May 2012 - 11:56.


#20009 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:56

For me this is one in series of incidents where I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

#20010 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:57

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.

#20011 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:05

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.

Yes, but... did them called the other driver "idiot" :p

5 grid penalty for cursing  ;)

Edited by IceSkyrim, 21 May 2012 - 12:08.


#20012 flyer121

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:10

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.


Webber flying may be comparabe but he provided the only spectacle in that otherwise boring race , so Stewards may have let him off :). Plus Kova wasnt about to finish in points anyway.

But I wonder when Webber crashed Hamilton out without it being a 50 50 fault allocation ?

#20013 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:15

Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

You of course reffering to Spa incident. Just bringing that up perhaps say more about you than Schumacher, because by now I thought whole racing community understood what happened on that day.

#20014 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:22

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.

#20015 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:23

But I wonder when Webber crashed Hamilton out without it being a 50 50 fault allocation ?

Australia 2011 ?

#20016 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:25

Without much effort my memory gives me an example of Webber crashing Hamilton out or Webber flying over Kovalainen. No 5 grid penalty AFAIK.


HK incident is comparable, but when did MW cause a race ending crash with LH?


#20017 Jejking

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:34

HK incident is comparable, but when did MW cause a race ending crash with LH?

Singapore 2010.

Well, he ran into the back of DC too.....
His fault in Spain plain and simple and no amount of 'spin' is gonna change that. It was a boneheaded move on Schumacher's part. The stewards saw it that way and hence the 5 place grid penalty.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:

#20018 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:37

You of course reffering to Spa incident. Just bringing that up perhaps say more about you than Schumacher, because by now I thought whole racing community understood what happened on that day.


Just what exactly does that say about me? You said that he raced at 300kph next to the likes of Prost, DC and Mika inferring that there were no issues or incidents with them, yet he has trouble with so called 'lesser' drivers.

#20019 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:39

Singapore 2010.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:


I said, the stewards saw it that way and nothing more and I agree with them.

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#20020 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:41

Based on recent precedent the penalty was more or less inevitable. I don't personally like penalties for such errors, thinking they should be reserved for insane 'made to fail' overtaking stabs and very harsh cutoffs coming out of corners etc, but that's the game these days.

#20021 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:45

Singapore 2010.

You say stewards are the ultimate source of truth and wisdom? You can do better than that :stoned:


That wasn't a bonehead move by MW or one that he could rightly be held to blame for.

#20022 IceSkyrim

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 12:52

Based on recent precedent the penalty was more or less inevitable. I don't personally like penalties for such errors, thinking they should be reserved for insane 'made to fail' overtaking stabs and very harsh cutoffs coming out of corners etc, but that's the game these days.

Then again... Nico managed to get a clean pass over Senna, Grosjean enforced his way by the cost of a frong wing piece.

Schumacher was held by Senna for an entire lap. Schumy saw Nico and Groo getting away and felt the despair to be left behind and took desperate measures.

Then again... if Nico can, why can't Schumacher ?

#20023 Callisto

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:03

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.

:up:

#20024 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:09

I would challenge that for accuracy. Whilst Senna had right to block approaching car, one can argue that it was incompetent move on his part, since in large picture Mercedes was carrying far more speed, Schumacher was very close, and to change line for him after Senna's block was all too little too late. I think some poster expect Schumacher to stop racing, and just drive around perhaps on safe side, but for more racing oriented mind one must see that physical conditions of the situation speak rather about avoidable accident had Senna kept his line, and from that perspective it makes Schumacher's grid penalty in Monaco so much more painful, as it is utterly undeserved. For me this is one in series of incidents in which I see that a driver who can go wheel to wheel without any problems in speed approaching 300 km per hour with people like Prost, DC, Hakinnen, or even some of the current drivers, yet when he gets into proximity of people like Senna, Petrov, and alike, his race almost inevitably ends fifty laps prematurely.


There's a certain thing called defensive driving and this applies both in racing as well as on public roads. In such a situation, he's clearly taking a risk by utterly depending on Senna to do the right thing in a very tight situation. A small modicum of leeway should be left for the driver in front not doing the right thing. This is why you see so many times a driver backs off when attempting a pass. Why? Committing to an attempt at a pass in so many situations is just too risky for both. To make it worse, Schumi was coming from behind. The result is that Schumacher runs right in the back of the Senna, ruining Senna's race and his, of course. It's really only in exceptional circumstances that a driver can run squarely into the back of another driver and not be held liable for it. I don't think this was one of them.

Schumi, Hamilton and Montoya are all quite similar. They can be spectacular overtakers when it works out. However, they'll be the ones to have many ontrack incidents. A. Senna was another to have many ontrack incidents. This is a side effect of what makes them special. However, the penalties will come too. Just be ready for them. Ask Lewis about it. :)

#20025 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:19

http://www.bbc.co.uk...r_mediocre.html

Well well. It seems Andrew BensonĀ“s frustration has got the better of him.

Schumacher, the mediocre driver, only hired for publicity. Mercedes having an average car. Yes he takes no prisoners.


Hi Andrew :wave: Another column shot down by Merc boss about Schumachers future!

He needs to, read the Paul Di Resta thread.


I did. And the actual quote from Nick fry is: 'if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue'. So, its up to Michael, no Di Resta, or Mercedes.

Nice vote of confidence from the team. :up:



#20026 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:20

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.


You're way too emotional. Get a hold of yourself man. :well:

You know where emotions get you. Here you are, being so judgmental of emotional behaviour and then you do the very same yourself.

Schumi was upset and reacted in the heat of the moment. You're behind your keyboard and in a warm chair. You'll see things far more clearly if you calm down.

A race ban? :stoned:

#20027 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:26

Just what exactly does that say about me? You said that he raced at 300kph next to the likes of Prost, DC and Mika inferring that there were no issues or incidents with them, yet he has trouble with so called 'lesser' drivers.


Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to bring up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:

Edited by ali_M, 21 May 2012 - 17:02.


#20028 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:30

You're way too emotional. Get a hold of yourself man. :well:

You know where emotions get you. Here you are, being so judgmental of emotional behaviour and then you do the very same yourself.

Schumi was upset and reacted in the heat of the moment. You're behind your keyboard and in a warm chair. You'll see things far more clearly if you calm down.

A race ban? :stoned:


Rubbish. I'm perfectly calm. The incident wasn't even shown live, and that's when emotions would be high. What I saw was highly dangerous and I don't care how upset you think MS was, there is no place for those sort of actions and they should not be tolerated in anyway. A race ban would not have been out of order.

#20029 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:31

It's practise, it wasn't a deliberate block, it might of knocked a few tenths off of the clock, but importantly was of no danger whatsoever. Contrast that to MS's actions where he deliberately short cuts the circuit to ensure he gets in front of LH, and then sits on the exit of the corner causing a real risk of collision. Just plain stupid driving from the driver who is the most experienced on the grid. Personally I think he deserved a race ban for those actions.


Except that :
- you don't know what Lewis was thinking and doing, since we don't know what happened before Michael reacted.
- he didn't sit on the corner, just slowed down (probably he just wanted to ruin Lewis' next lap)
- there was no risk of collision whatsoever. Immature, certainly. Dangerous, no.

You ask for a race ban without having even half the info. They went to stewards, gave their opinions and Michael was penalized. From a reprimand to a race ban is a long way.

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:33.


#20030 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:33

Except that :
- you don't know what Lewis was thinking and doing, since we don't know what happened before Michael reacted. True, but I don't believe it was a deliberate move
- he didn't sit on the corner, just slowed down (probably he just wanted to ruin Lewis' next lap) You can call it what you like, but he positioned himself on the corner exit
- there was no risk of collision whatsoever Disagree



#20031 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:36

So explain why you believe there was a risk of collision. It wasn't at high speed, Lewis could see Michael from a long way and when rejoining Michael didn't do unpredictable maneuvers (i.e. accelerate and brake hard). This wasn't even a brake test.

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:38.


#20032 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:37

So explain why you believe there was a risk of collision. It wasn't at high speed and Lewis could see Michael from a long way. This wasn't even a brake test.


Really? You can't work that one out for yourself?


#20033 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:39

Really? You can't work that one out for yourself?


No. Give your reasons (if you have any). I gave mine.

#20034 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:40

Clatter:

- He didnt position himself on the exit of the corner

- He wasnt on the apex of the corner

- He wasnt on the racing line

- The sky commentator said Hamilton didnt 'flinch' (or something like that)

- The onboard showed Hamilton didnt lift or took evasive action

And im suprised at such a reaction from you. Calling for a race ban. Bit over the top, isnt it?

#20035 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:42

Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to being up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:


Actually that's the second time in a week or so when he blamed Michael for Spa. Nothing new here.

#20036 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:45

It seems many posters are very poor road drivers, or ... just hypocritical ...

Nothing extraordinary happened. In fact young and promising Schumacher got quite a dose of deliberate impeding by Senna, Berger and the likes during practice sessions (which counted for qualifying back then). And when he tried to complain to the media, got a lecture from Senna about man to man conversations. Lewis played smart ass, Michael returned the gesture.

Edited by sharo, 21 May 2012 - 13:46.


#20037 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:47

Clatter:

- He didnt position himself on the exit of the corner

- He wasnt on the apex of the corner

- He wasnt on the racing line

- The sky commentator said Hamilton didnt 'flinch' (or something like that)

- The onboard showed Hamilton didnt lift or took evasive action

And im suprised at such a reaction from you. Calling for a race ban. Bit over the top, isnt it?


It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.

#20038 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:48

It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.

Are you a traffic policeman?
You sound like one. :)

#20039 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:49

It seems many posters are very poor road drivers, or ... just hypocritical ...

Nothing extraordinary happened. In fact young and promising Schumacher got quite a dose of deliberate impeding by Senna, Berger and the likes during practice sessions (which counted for qualifying back then). And when he tried to complain to the media, got a lecture from Senna about man to man conversations. Lewis played smart ass, Michael returned the gesture.


When did a practise session ever count towards qualifying since MS has been driving?

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#20040 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:49

Are you a traffic policeman?
You sound like one. :)


Nope, and were talking about the racetrack not the road.


#20041 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:51

No. Give your reasons (if you have any). I gave mine.


I already have and you have said you don't agree with them. That's fine, but don't then try and play games and pretend I haven't.

#20042 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:52

It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.


He only wanted to show he was angry, thats all imo. As I said, from the onboard it didnt look like Hamilton had any problem with it or had to alter his line. Schumacher should know better and got a reprimand. That should be the end of it.

I remember Juan Pablo Montoya doing something in the Monaco tunnel. Now that was a much more clear case of someone doing something very dangerous. Or Hamilton himself, last year at the Hungaroring. I never heard you ask for a race ban then.

#20043 topical

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:55

I did. And the actual quote from Nick fry is: 'if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue'. So, its up to Michael, no Di Resta, or Mercedes.

Nice vote of confidence from the team. :up:



Actually, I'd say that's a pretty obvious hint that they are asking MS to do the dignified thing and hang up his helmet. They're hardly going to come out in public and say 'We don't know if we want to keep Michael', but notable is the lack of 'we very much hope Michael will stay.' I think it's clear that Mercedes patience is up but for PR reasons they can'tbe too open about it.

#20044 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:55

I already have and you have said you don't agree with them. That's fine, but don't then try and play games and pretend I haven't.


You gave no reasons for why you are saying that there was a risk of collision. You just stated your opinion while i gave you arguments why there was no risk (too slow, too far apart, too predictable).

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:56.


#20045 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:01

Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to being up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:


Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Salo. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......

Edited by jj2728, 21 May 2012 - 15:03.


#20046 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:02

Actually, I'd say that's a pretty obvious hint that they are asking MS to do the dignified thing and hang up his helmet. They're hardly going to come out in public and say 'We don't know if we want to keep Michael', but notable is the lack of 'we very much hope Michael will stay.' I think it's clear that Mercedes patience is up but for PR reasons they can'tbe too open about it.


It wouldnt make sense at all.

First of all Schumacher is driving very well this year. Last weekend was his first mistake.

Secondly, it remains to be seen whether Di Resta can match Rosberg.

Thirdly, considering his close ties with Brawn, giving 'obvious hints' to the press doesnt make any sense at all. They either back him or they dont.

Fry says that it depends whether Schumacher wants to continue, then that is the way it should be understood.

#20047 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:02

When did a practise session ever count towards qualifying since MS has been driving?



Nope, and were talking about the racetrack not the road.

1. When they had two sessions on Friday and Saturday, best time taken.
2. You are confusing racetrack with road driving. In the latter even people with disabilities drive cars. In the former - supposedly the best of the best so a car at some 50-70 meters ahead is not a problem.

#20048 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:37

Last two years, Monaco weekend didn't finish well. So , I don't see how will be different this time. Especially with 5+. Rain could help this time.

Edited by ivand911, 21 May 2012 - 14:50.


#20049 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:46

Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Sato. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......


Sorry jj2728, sometimes you get a rough deal in this thread, but not this time.

Spa 1998 has been done to death, DC himself has admitted he made a decision that he now regrets, it was his responsibility. It wasn't deliberately aimed at taking MS out, but he did ease off in the wet, barely off the racing line which is what caused the accident. Additionally, he was a lap behind. There is NO similarity between that & Spain 2012 other than MS was involved.

Not sure where Sato comes into it, I'll assume it was a typo and move on.

#20050 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:47

Fry says that it depends whether Schumacher wants to continue, then that is the way it should be understood.

I think that remark is lost on people who consider Schumacher unbeaten record as a thorn in their side. They prefer to read this as it suits them. You can't beat him in records, thus you smuge his reputation. It's a shame.