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#20051 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:37

So explain why you believe there was a risk of collision. It wasn't at high speed and Lewis could see Michael from a long way. This wasn't even a brake test.


Really? You can't work that one out for yourself?


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#20052 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:39

Really? You can't work that one out for yourself?


No. Give your reasons (if you have any). I gave mine.

#20053 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:40

Clatter:

- He didnt position himself on the exit of the corner

- He wasnt on the apex of the corner

- He wasnt on the racing line

- The sky commentator said Hamilton didnt 'flinch' (or something like that)

- The onboard showed Hamilton didnt lift or took evasive action

And im suprised at such a reaction from you. Calling for a race ban. Bit over the top, isnt it?

#20054 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:42

Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to being up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:


Actually that's the second time in a week or so when he blamed Michael for Spa. Nothing new here.

#20055 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:45

It seems many posters are very poor road drivers, or ... just hypocritical ...

Nothing extraordinary happened. In fact young and promising Schumacher got quite a dose of deliberate impeding by Senna, Berger and the likes during practice sessions (which counted for qualifying back then). And when he tried to complain to the media, got a lecture from Senna about man to man conversations. Lewis played smart ass, Michael returned the gesture.

Edited by sharo, 21 May 2012 - 13:46.


#20056 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:47

Clatter:

- He didnt position himself on the exit of the corner

- He wasnt on the apex of the corner

- He wasnt on the racing line

- The sky commentator said Hamilton didnt 'flinch' (or something like that)

- The onboard showed Hamilton didnt lift or took evasive action

And im suprised at such a reaction from you. Calling for a race ban. Bit over the top, isnt it?


It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.

#20057 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:48

It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.

Are you a traffic policeman?
You sound like one. :)

#20058 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:49

It seems many posters are very poor road drivers, or ... just hypocritical ...

Nothing extraordinary happened. In fact young and promising Schumacher got quite a dose of deliberate impeding by Senna, Berger and the likes during practice sessions (which counted for qualifying back then). And when he tried to complain to the media, got a lecture from Senna about man to man conversations. Lewis played smart ass, Michael returned the gesture.


When did a practise session ever count towards qualifying since MS has been driving?

#20059 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:49

Are you a traffic policeman?
You sound like one. :)


Nope, and were talking about the racetrack not the road.


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#20060 Clatter

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:51

No. Give your reasons (if you have any). I gave mine.


I already have and you have said you don't agree with them. That's fine, but don't then try and play games and pretend I haven't.

#20061 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:52

It was an absolute deliberate move that I believe warrants a harsh penalty. No driver should ever believe driving like that is correct and expect just a tap on the wrist for it.


He only wanted to show he was angry, thats all imo. As I said, from the onboard it didnt look like Hamilton had any problem with it or had to alter his line. Schumacher should know better and got a reprimand. That should be the end of it.

I remember Juan Pablo Montoya doing something in the Monaco tunnel. Now that was a much more clear case of someone doing something very dangerous. Or Hamilton himself, last year at the Hungaroring. I never heard you ask for a race ban then.

#20062 topical

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:55

I did. And the actual quote from Nick fry is: 'if Michael were to decide he didn't want to continue'. So, its up to Michael, no Di Resta, or Mercedes.

Nice vote of confidence from the team. :up:



Actually, I'd say that's a pretty obvious hint that they are asking MS to do the dignified thing and hang up his helmet. They're hardly going to come out in public and say 'We don't know if we want to keep Michael', but notable is the lack of 'we very much hope Michael will stay.' I think it's clear that Mercedes patience is up but for PR reasons they can'tbe too open about it.

#20063 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 13:55

I already have and you have said you don't agree with them. That's fine, but don't then try and play games and pretend I haven't.


You gave no reasons for why you are saying that there was a risk of collision. You just stated your opinion while i gave you arguments why there was no risk (too slow, too far apart, too predictable).

Edited by Diablobb81, 21 May 2012 - 13:56.


#20064 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:01

Some of you can write the darndest things. I agree with Sakae. For you to being up Schumi's collision with DC at Spa 1998 the way you did utterly kills your credibility for me. Not that you had much before, but I now can confirm your attitude towards Schumi. Toodle-doo..... :down:


Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Salo. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......

Edited by jj2728, 21 May 2012 - 15:03.


#20065 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:02

Actually, I'd say that's a pretty obvious hint that they are asking MS to do the dignified thing and hang up his helmet. They're hardly going to come out in public and say 'We don't know if we want to keep Michael', but notable is the lack of 'we very much hope Michael will stay.' I think it's clear that Mercedes patience is up but for PR reasons they can'tbe too open about it.


It wouldnt make sense at all.

First of all Schumacher is driving very well this year. Last weekend was his first mistake.

Secondly, it remains to be seen whether Di Resta can match Rosberg.

Thirdly, considering his close ties with Brawn, giving 'obvious hints' to the press doesnt make any sense at all. They either back him or they dont.

Fry says that it depends whether Schumacher wants to continue, then that is the way it should be understood.

#20066 sharo

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:02

When did a practise session ever count towards qualifying since MS has been driving?



Nope, and were talking about the racetrack not the road.

1. When they had two sessions on Friday and Saturday, best time taken.
2. You are confusing racetrack with road driving. In the latter even people with disabilities drive cars. In the former - supposedly the best of the best so a car at some 50-70 meters ahead is not a problem.

#20067 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:37

Last two years, Monaco weekend didn't finish well. So , I don't see how will be different this time. Especially with 5+. Rain could help this time.

Edited by ivand911, 21 May 2012 - 14:50.


#20068 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:46

Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Sato. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......


Sorry jj2728, sometimes you get a rough deal in this thread, but not this time.

Spa 1998 has been done to death, DC himself has admitted he made a decision that he now regrets, it was his responsibility. It wasn't deliberately aimed at taking MS out, but he did ease off in the wet, barely off the racing line which is what caused the accident. Additionally, he was a lap behind. There is NO similarity between that & Spain 2012 other than MS was involved.

Not sure where Sato comes into it, I'll assume it was a typo and move on.

#20069 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 14:47

Fry says that it depends whether Schumacher wants to continue, then that is the way it should be understood.

I think that remark is lost on people who consider Schumacher unbeaten record as a thorn in their side. They prefer to read this as it suits them. You can't beat him in records, thus you smuge his reputation. It's a shame.

#20070 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:02

Not sure where Sato comes into it, I'll assume it was a typo and move on.


Typo on my part, I meant Salo.

#20071 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:27

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Edited by ivand911, 21 May 2012 - 15:30.


#20072 ForeverF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:49

Posts deleted. Again, discuss the post and not the poster. Thanks.

#20073 SeanValen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:02

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interfered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him.


:smoking:

Edited by SeanValen, 21 May 2012 - 16:09.


#20074 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:06

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him. :smoking:

I see it the same way as Ralf.

#20075 hammibal

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:25

People who say Schumacher is not good enough anymore are totally wrong and haven't looked closer at his racing.
He's been up to speed with Rosberg in 2011, and even a little bit faster. The only reason for Rosberg to have more points in the end is that he had less technical errors.
Same story for 2012 until now, Schumacher has been the quicker man overall, but hasn't had the best of luck to say the least.
People who deny this have no knowledge of F1, simple as that... :wave:

While some people go over the top saying Schumacher is under performing these past 2 seasons clearly some people go the other way as well, dimissing Schumacher losing out to Rosberg last season because of technical errors seems to gloss over many self inflicted accidents caused by Schumacher himself. Also i dont see how Schumacher has been quicker than Rosberg this season for the most part its been close but when it mattered the most Rosberg made it count.

Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?

I think there's a very good chance of Rossi winning again after this season due to Stoner's retirement which could open the door to a better bike

Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:

The trouble with F1 at present you could say that of at least half the grid look at Madonaldo last time out, a Schumacher win wouldnt be a stand out achievement as such

#20076 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:51

Rubbish. I'm perfectly calm. The incident wasn't even shown live, and that's when emotions would be high. What I saw was highly dangerous and I don't care how upset you think MS was, there is no place for those sort of actions and they should not be tolerated in anyway. A race ban would not have been out of order.


Whatever dude.... :well:

#20077 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:17

Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Salo. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......


'Talk down'? See here? :lol: You have no moral authority to speak against talking down to people here. :) Be that as it may, I spoke against your opinion and many others you've given here in this thread. It's not meant personally or to be taken as all- encompassing.

That comparison you still insist on pushing as valid is so way off the mark that it really damages your already damaged credibility on your analysis of Spain and Schumi, in general.

#20078 Konsta

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:21

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:

#20079 jbarokF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:36

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interfered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him.


:smoking:


So you are looking forward to see MS win a lottery race???
I thought you guys want to see drivers win by being able to push to the limit and not by a lottery?

Edited by jbarokF1, 21 May 2012 - 17:42.


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#20080 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:50

Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:

Yeah, make you think why Lewis was so eager not to give MS to pass him then. It is FP only. Why was so important to him to start fast lap, destroying MS fast lap in the process.


#20081 Konsta

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:15

Yeah, make you think why Lewis was so eager not to give MS to pass him then. It is FP only. Why was so important to him to start fast lap, destroying MS fast lap in the process.


Unfortunately we haven´t seen the events before MS´s tantrum. Apparently Lewis hindered him somehow but the way he vented his frustration was utterly childish and downright idiotic - not that it was dangerous though.

#20082 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:16

That comparison you still insist on pushing as valid is so way off the mark that it really damages your already damaged credibility on your analysis of Spain and Schumi, in general.


Only amongst the Schumacher fan club is my point off mark. The impetuous Schumacher of present day is no different than the impetuous Schumacher of old. Leopards do NOT change their spots. And to be quite frank, amongst this crowd I couldn't care less what people such as yourself think of my credibility. But if it floats your boat then well.....

#20083 1Devil1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:22

While some people go over the top saying Schumacher is under performing these past 2 seasons clearly some people go the other way as well, dimissing Schumacher losing out to Rosberg last season because of technical errors seems to gloss over many self inflicted accidents caused by Schumacher himself. Also i dont see how Schumacher has been quicker than Rosberg this season for the most part its been close but when it mattered the most Rosberg made it count.


Yeah the countless chances Michael had to "made it count" this year. Michael had a technical retirement in this race - do you remember?
It's really hard to compare the performance of the two drivers because Schumacher hadn't an incident free weekend so far. But until now there is no evidence that Rosberg is the better man. He had one! really good weekend, was clearly faster than Michael on this favored track, who was in the position to score a second place. But Michael showed good pace at all others races and probably would have the same points as Nico if not even more.

Edited by 1Devil1, 21 May 2012 - 18:25.


#20084 glorius&victorius

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:25

can anyone tell me why Mercedes has done nothing to give Michael a better engineer?? Jock Clear former soul mates with JV and Rubens. No way he will loose sleep over MS set up problems.

Look at Kimi, he has his old engineer back, and the results are good.

Why cant Michael not get ... what's his name... the nerdy australian guy.. but oh so humble and good!

I dont get it!

I say: come back but do it proper... or otherwise.. hang up the helmet and retire in grace.

Edited by glorius&victorius, 21 May 2012 - 18:26.


#20085 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:27

Sorry jj2728, sometimes you get a rough deal in this thread, but not this time.

Spa 1998 has been done to death, DC himself has admitted he made a decision that he now regrets, it was his responsibility. It wasn't deliberately aimed at taking MS out, but he did ease off in the wet, barely off the racing line which is what caused the accident. Additionally, he was a lap behind. There is NO similarity between that & Spain 2012 other than MS was involved.


I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.

#20086 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:33

can anyone tell me why Mercedes has done nothing to give Michael a better engineer?? Jock Clear former soul mates with JV and Rubens. No way he will loose sleep over MS set up problems.

Look at Kimi, he has his old engineer back, and the results are good.

Why cant Michael not get ... what's his name... the nerdy australian guy.. but oh so humble and good!

I dont get it!

I say: come back but do it proper... or otherwise.. hang up the helmet and retire in grace.

Chris Dyer. I don't know why. His race engineer is Peter Bonnington. Jock is his performance engineer.
Race engineer (Michael Schumacher): Peter Bonnington
Race engineer (Nico Rosberg): Tony Ross
Performance engineer (Michael Schumacher): Jock Clear
Performance engineer (Nico Rosberg): Riccardo Musconi


#20087 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:32

I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.


Anyone with half a brain knows he has pulled a couple of incredibly ill judged manoveours over the years. He's an aggresive motor racer. And yes he can appear arrogant about it to. He's a competitive sports person. He's hardly the first person in F1 to fit into both these categories, though arguably the most scrutinized. I believe its his way of keeping mentally strong, you'll never see a Rubens-esque chin drop after a difficult period from Michael though you might glimpse a git, but whatever. We get it.

If you want to let that overshadow your opinion of him as a person thats your choice and I can see both sides of the argument. What I don't understand is why the need to keep reminding us that his stats are tainted because of it. There's a lot more to it than stats, just as there is a lot more to his racing career and overall qualities as an F1 driver than a few select moments.

#20088 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:41

I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.

jj2728, all well and good and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment of MS' flaws but......

Your point that what happened in Spa 1998 is the same as Spain 2012 is misplaced, there is a world of difference between hitting a guy up the backside as you misjudge a passing move and hitting a guy that you're trying to lap when he eases off on the racing line in the wet. Surely you can see that?

IF MS is as impetuous as you claim him to be, there's far better evidence to put forward to make your case than an incident where he wasn't even at fault. I could suggest France 1992, maybe at a push suggest Silverstone 94. At least he bears responsibility for those.


#20089 spinster

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:46

jj2728, all well and good and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment of MS' flaws but......

Your point that what happened in Spa 1998 is the same as Spain 2012 is misplaced, there is a world of difference between hitting a guy up the backside as you misjudge a passing move and hitting a guy that you're trying to lap when he eases off on the racing line in the wet. Surely you can see that?

IF MS is as impetuous as you claim him to be, there's far better evidence to put forward to make your case than an incident where he wasn't even at fault. I could suggest France 1992, maybe at a push suggest Silverstone 94. At least he bears responsibility for those.


maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!

#20090 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:47

Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:


It happens. Its a big boys sport. Lewis isn't impervious to these things, nor other drivers. Yes Schumi could have handled that much better, but its been blown out of proportion now.

#20091 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:50

maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!


Thats a bit harsh. He's only made 1 mistake all year. Apart from that he's looked pretty decent.

Making a mistake in the wet at Monaco is hardly grounds for retirement.

Anyway it will be interesting. I think Nico will also be good at Monaco, but will the Mercedes? Have they learnt how to make the tyre work in the wet? Will they slip further down the grid without their trick DRS being used like in Malaysia and China? I think Michael will be in traffic, probably about 7-8th will be a fair result.

#20092 spinster

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 20:02

Thats a bit harsh. He's only made 1 mistake all year. Apart from that he's looked pretty decent.

Making a mistake in the wet at Monaco is hardly grounds for retirement.

Anyway it will be interesting. I think Nico will also be good at Monaco, but will the Mercedes? Have they learnt how to make the tyre work in the wet? Will they slip further down the grid without their trick DRS being used like in Malaysia and China? I think Michael will be in traffic, probably about 7-8th will be a fair result.


1 mistake a year?

#20093 jbarokF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 20:53

maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!


Better to wait til the end of the season...there is always a reason (or excuse) whenever MS does not get any good results..

#20094 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:04

Better to wait til the end of the season...there is always a reason (or excuse) whenever MS does not get any good results..


Yeah, but thats true of anyone isn't it? Of course there's always either a reason or an excuse.

#20095 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:09

A race ban would not have been out of order.

Yes but you have believed for many years that Michael should get a race ban for variously being Michael, his chin, looking at you funny, beating xyz driver, existing etc etc.

A race ban for that would have been not only excessive but completely outrageous. You don't even have to look back a year to see much much worse moves from annoyed drivers, including the supposed victim in this case.

Edited by baddog, 21 May 2012 - 21:09.


#20096 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:10

The day Merc hire Chris Dyer is the day Schumi can start putting in amazing performances again.

I have ZERO faith in any of Schumi's current team, especially Jock Clear whom I do not trust in the slightest, regarding working on Schumi's car/settings.




#20097 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:19

I have ZERO faith in any of Schumi's current team, especially Jock Clear whom I do not trust in the slightest, regarding working on Schumi's car/settings.


I do. They are all professionals. The idea someone like Clear would harbour a grudge against Schumi and not work his absolute best for the team is pretty crazy imo.

I also think that if the team were pulling that kinda shit, Michael is smart enough to notice, and powerful enough not to stand for it.

#20098 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:21

Since Clear took over, Michael has been the better Merc driver overall, has had mostly good setups etc. He has been a damned good engineer. There have been far too many silly errors by mechanics though but presumably that would be more the other fellow's area.

#20099 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:29

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Thanks! :up:

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#20100 george1981

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:38

With regards to engineers, I think most F1 engineers know that they can replaced relatively easily and have to work hard to stay in F1. I can't see any engineer deliberately impeding their driver because of a 15 year old grudge, when they know that their driver's performance will reflect upon them. MS could retire again at the end of this season, Jock Clear has probably got at least another 10 years in him and can't afford to have a reputation of sabotaging his driver.