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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#20051 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:02

Not sure where Sato comes into it, I'll assume it was a typo and move on.


Typo on my part, I meant Salo.

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#20052 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:27

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Edited by ivand911, 21 May 2012 - 15:30.


#20053 ForeverF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 15:49

Posts deleted. Again, discuss the post and not the poster. Thanks.

#20054 SeanValen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:02

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interfered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him.


:smoking:

Edited by SeanValen, 21 May 2012 - 16:09.


#20055 Sakae

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:06

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him. :smoking:

I see it the same way as Ralf.

#20056 hammibal

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:25

People who say Schumacher is not good enough anymore are totally wrong and haven't looked closer at his racing.
He's been up to speed with Rosberg in 2011, and even a little bit faster. The only reason for Rosberg to have more points in the end is that he had less technical errors.
Same story for 2012 until now, Schumacher has been the quicker man overall, but hasn't had the best of luck to say the least.
People who deny this have no knowledge of F1, simple as that... :wave:

While some people go over the top saying Schumacher is under performing these past 2 seasons clearly some people go the other way as well, dimissing Schumacher losing out to Rosberg last season because of technical errors seems to gloss over many self inflicted accidents caused by Schumacher himself. Also i dont see how Schumacher has been quicker than Rosberg this season for the most part its been close but when it mattered the most Rosberg made it count.

Valentino and Michael, Casey and Sebastian - how close are the parallels! Would be just awesome Vettel declared his retirement because the F1 of 2012 is not the F1 anymore that he liked.

Also striking is the parallel some 20 years ago, Wayne Rainey and Ayrton Senna. It always made me think.

Will Valentino, will Michael ever win again?

I think there's a very good chance of Rossi winning again after this season due to Stoner's retirement which could open the door to a better bike

Im sure both are still capable of winning again. Just give them what they need and they will win. :up:

The trouble with F1 at present you could say that of at least half the grid look at Madonaldo last time out, a Schumacher win wouldnt be a stand out achievement as such

#20057 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 16:51

Rubbish. I'm perfectly calm. The incident wasn't even shown live, and that's when emotions would be high. What I saw was highly dangerous and I don't care how upset you think MS was, there is no place for those sort of actions and they should not be tolerated in anyway. A race ban would not have been out of order.


Whatever dude.... :well:

#20058 ali_M

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:17

Rubbish. Read the race report from Spa 1998. Schumacher almost did the same thing to Salo. Sakea said that Schumacher was able to race at 300 kph with the likes of Prost, DC and Mika and I only said he did the same impetous thing to DC at Spa that he did to Senna in Spain. It was a comparison nothing more. I'm neither pro or con with regards to Schumacher. If you'd take the time to read what I've said in the past you'd note that my views on him are just that, neither pro nor con. You talk down to others as if your pontifical views were so far above the rest, when I see you as not much more than one of the Schumacher fan club who clambers to his defense when others have a different view point. Talk about lack of credibility......


'Talk down'? See here? :lol: You have no moral authority to speak against talking down to people here. :) Be that as it may, I spoke against your opinion and many others you've given here in this thread. It's not meant personally or to be taken as all- encompassing.

That comparison you still insist on pushing as valid is so way off the mark that it really damages your already damaged credibility on your analysis of Spain and Schumi, in general.

#20059 Konsta

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:21

You were not crying when Lewis didn't give him way in the same lap and ruined MS fast lap. He decided to stay there and not to give MS space to pass. He get reprimand , what more you want?


Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:

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#20060 jbarokF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:36

I'm a little surprised no one has posted these quotes by Ralf:

http://www.espnstar....p-podium-dream/

"But for sure, Michael came back to celebrate successes with Mercedes. And until he succeeds, he will not give up.

"I still see a lot of fire in Michael.

"He is pushing hard, as we saw as recently as Mugello last week."


"I think we will see Michael on the podium soon," he insisted.

"At some point, there surely comes a point when the body can't do it any more. But when I look at Michael, that's still a few years away.

"I certainly won't be racing as long as he has!"


I gotta agree with Ralf. And if you look at Schumacher and compare him to when he came back in 2010, he looks a bit more slimmer and shall I say youngish. If it wasn't for the tyres, the mercedes technical issues, wheel nut pit issues, fia insane penalities, the pirelli unforseen tyre lottery, all this chaos in the first 5 races that has basicially interfered with us seeing Michael very prepared for the season, hopefully it can start sometime for him.


:smoking:


So you are looking forward to see MS win a lottery race???
I thought you guys want to see drivers win by being able to push to the limit and not by a lottery?

Edited by jbarokF1, 21 May 2012 - 17:42.


#20061 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 17:50

Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:

Yeah, make you think why Lewis was so eager not to give MS to pass him then. It is FP only. Why was so important to him to start fast lap, destroying MS fast lap in the process.


#20062 Konsta

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:15

Yeah, make you think why Lewis was so eager not to give MS to pass him then. It is FP only. Why was so important to him to start fast lap, destroying MS fast lap in the process.


Unfortunately we haven´t seen the events before MS´s tantrum. Apparently Lewis hindered him somehow but the way he vented his frustration was utterly childish and downright idiotic - not that it was dangerous though.

#20063 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:16

That comparison you still insist on pushing as valid is so way off the mark that it really damages your already damaged credibility on your analysis of Spain and Schumi, in general.


Only amongst the Schumacher fan club is my point off mark. The impetuous Schumacher of present day is no different than the impetuous Schumacher of old. Leopards do NOT change their spots. And to be quite frank, amongst this crowd I couldn't care less what people such as yourself think of my credibility. But if it floats your boat then well.....

#20064 1Devil1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:22

While some people go over the top saying Schumacher is under performing these past 2 seasons clearly some people go the other way as well, dimissing Schumacher losing out to Rosberg last season because of technical errors seems to gloss over many self inflicted accidents caused by Schumacher himself. Also i dont see how Schumacher has been quicker than Rosberg this season for the most part its been close but when it mattered the most Rosberg made it count.


Yeah the countless chances Michael had to "made it count" this year. Michael had a technical retirement in this race - do you remember?
It's really hard to compare the performance of the two drivers because Schumacher hadn't an incident free weekend so far. But until now there is no evidence that Rosberg is the better man. He had one! really good weekend, was clearly faster than Michael on this favored track, who was in the position to score a second place. But Michael showed good pace at all others races and probably would have the same points as Nico if not even more.

Edited by 1Devil1, 21 May 2012 - 18:25.


#20065 glorius&victorius

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:25

can anyone tell me why Mercedes has done nothing to give Michael a better engineer?? Jock Clear former soul mates with JV and Rubens. No way he will loose sleep over MS set up problems.

Look at Kimi, he has his old engineer back, and the results are good.

Why cant Michael not get ... what's his name... the nerdy australian guy.. but oh so humble and good!

I dont get it!

I say: come back but do it proper... or otherwise.. hang up the helmet and retire in grace.

Edited by glorius&victorius, 21 May 2012 - 18:26.


#20066 jj2728

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:27

Sorry jj2728, sometimes you get a rough deal in this thread, but not this time.

Spa 1998 has been done to death, DC himself has admitted he made a decision that he now regrets, it was his responsibility. It wasn't deliberately aimed at taking MS out, but he did ease off in the wet, barely off the racing line which is what caused the accident. Additionally, he was a lap behind. There is NO similarity between that & Spain 2012 other than MS was involved.


I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.

#20067 ivand911

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 18:33

can anyone tell me why Mercedes has done nothing to give Michael a better engineer?? Jock Clear former soul mates with JV and Rubens. No way he will loose sleep over MS set up problems.

Look at Kimi, he has his old engineer back, and the results are good.

Why cant Michael not get ... what's his name... the nerdy australian guy.. but oh so humble and good!

I dont get it!

I say: come back but do it proper... or otherwise.. hang up the helmet and retire in grace.

Chris Dyer. I don't know why. His race engineer is Peter Bonnington. Jock is his performance engineer.
Race engineer (Michael Schumacher): Peter Bonnington
Race engineer (Nico Rosberg): Tony Ross
Performance engineer (Michael Schumacher): Jock Clear
Performance engineer (Nico Rosberg): Riccardo Musconi


#20068 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:32

I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.


Anyone with half a brain knows he has pulled a couple of incredibly ill judged manoveours over the years. He's an aggresive motor racer. And yes he can appear arrogant about it to. He's a competitive sports person. He's hardly the first person in F1 to fit into both these categories, though arguably the most scrutinized. I believe its his way of keeping mentally strong, you'll never see a Rubens-esque chin drop after a difficult period from Michael though you might glimpse a git, but whatever. We get it.

If you want to let that overshadow your opinion of him as a person thats your choice and I can see both sides of the argument. What I don't understand is why the need to keep reminding us that his stats are tainted because of it. There's a lot more to it than stats, just as there is a lot more to his racing career and overall qualities as an F1 driver than a few select moments.

#20069 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:41

I was making the point that Michael Schumacher's impetuousness has not changed over the years. His stats will be forever tainted and debated because of that and the bullyboy tactics he has employed. He is no different today than he was back in 1998. He is still a phenmonenal talent, but it is a talent shadowed by that impetuousness. That I dare disagree with the Schumacher fanbase on this subject has led to insults and what some would say little or no credibility. No big deal really, because unlike many here, the sun does not rise and set in my life around Michael Schumacher.

jj2728, all well and good and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment of MS' flaws but......

Your point that what happened in Spa 1998 is the same as Spain 2012 is misplaced, there is a world of difference between hitting a guy up the backside as you misjudge a passing move and hitting a guy that you're trying to lap when he eases off on the racing line in the wet. Surely you can see that?

IF MS is as impetuous as you claim him to be, there's far better evidence to put forward to make your case than an incident where he wasn't even at fault. I could suggest France 1992, maybe at a push suggest Silverstone 94. At least he bears responsibility for those.


#20070 spinster

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:46

jj2728, all well and good and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment of MS' flaws but......

Your point that what happened in Spa 1998 is the same as Spain 2012 is misplaced, there is a world of difference between hitting a guy up the backside as you misjudge a passing move and hitting a guy that you're trying to lap when he eases off on the racing line in the wet. Surely you can see that?

IF MS is as impetuous as you claim him to be, there's far better evidence to put forward to make your case than an incident where he wasn't even at fault. I could suggest France 1992, maybe at a push suggest Silverstone 94. At least he bears responsibility for those.


maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!

#20071 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:47

Ivan please, we´re talking about FP3. If Michael was impeded it really was just a lap in practise - the way he throw his toys out of the pram was just about the most childish thing I´ve see for ages. It was not really dangerous as some claim but idiotic and totally unnecessary. If he was a man, he had confronted Lewis after the session and told what he felt but to do that on track... :confused:


It happens. Its a big boys sport. Lewis isn't impervious to these things, nor other drivers. Yes Schumi could have handled that much better, but its been blown out of proportion now.

#20072 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 19:50

maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!


Thats a bit harsh. He's only made 1 mistake all year. Apart from that he's looked pretty decent.

Making a mistake in the wet at Monaco is hardly grounds for retirement.

Anyway it will be interesting. I think Nico will also be good at Monaco, but will the Mercedes? Have they learnt how to make the tyre work in the wet? Will they slip further down the grid without their trick DRS being used like in Malaysia and China? I think Michael will be in traffic, probably about 7-8th will be a fair result.

#20073 spinster

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 20:02

Thats a bit harsh. He's only made 1 mistake all year. Apart from that he's looked pretty decent.

Making a mistake in the wet at Monaco is hardly grounds for retirement.

Anyway it will be interesting. I think Nico will also be good at Monaco, but will the Mercedes? Have they learnt how to make the tyre work in the wet? Will they slip further down the grid without their trick DRS being used like in Malaysia and China? I think Michael will be in traffic, probably about 7-8th will be a fair result.


1 mistake a year?

#20074 jbarokF1

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 20:53

maybe we can wait after a wet monaco to judge MS... Monaco (one of his favourites) and wet (the rain master as told me)...

I'm really want to see what he can do... if he make a mistake ones more than it's very clear...STOP!


Better to wait til the end of the season...there is always a reason (or excuse) whenever MS does not get any good results..

#20075 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:04

Better to wait til the end of the season...there is always a reason (or excuse) whenever MS does not get any good results..


Yeah, but thats true of anyone isn't it? Of course there's always either a reason or an excuse.

#20076 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:09

A race ban would not have been out of order.

Yes but you have believed for many years that Michael should get a race ban for variously being Michael, his chin, looking at you funny, beating xyz driver, existing etc etc.

A race ban for that would have been not only excessive but completely outrageous. You don't even have to look back a year to see much much worse moves from annoyed drivers, including the supposed victim in this case.

Edited by baddog, 21 May 2012 - 21:09.


#20077 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:10

The day Merc hire Chris Dyer is the day Schumi can start putting in amazing performances again.

I have ZERO faith in any of Schumi's current team, especially Jock Clear whom I do not trust in the slightest, regarding working on Schumi's car/settings.




#20078 spacekid

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:19

I have ZERO faith in any of Schumi's current team, especially Jock Clear whom I do not trust in the slightest, regarding working on Schumi's car/settings.


I do. They are all professionals. The idea someone like Clear would harbour a grudge against Schumi and not work his absolute best for the team is pretty crazy imo.

I also think that if the team were pulling that kinda shit, Michael is smart enough to notice, and powerful enough not to stand for it.

#20079 baddog

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:21

Since Clear took over, Michael has been the better Merc driver overall, has had mostly good setups etc. He has been a damned good engineer. There have been far too many silly errors by mechanics though but presumably that would be more the other fellow's area.

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#20080 TheBunk

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:29

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Thanks! :up:

#20081 george1981

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 21:38

With regards to engineers, I think most F1 engineers know that they can replaced relatively easily and have to work hard to stay in F1. I can't see any engineer deliberately impeding their driver because of a 15 year old grudge, when they know that their driver's performance will reflect upon them. MS could retire again at the end of this season, Jock Clear has probably got at least another 10 years in him and can't afford to have a reputation of sabotaging his driver.

#20082 654321

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 22:04

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thanks for the always cool pics Ivan


I expect MS to be seeing red this weekend...



#20083 SeanValen

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 22:15

So you are looking forward to see MS win a lottery race???
I thought you guys want to see drivers win by being able to push to the limit and not by a lottery?



You imisunderstood my post.
I don't want to see a lottery race, I don't like how Pirelli have changed and how a lack of testing means races suffer because of lack of tyre experence. And temperature related tyres are the worsed. I was just saying we've had a few of those already this season, and it creates a mess where alot of good drivers might not get he results due to them.

Hopefully it won't be too much of a issue as the season goes along.

Edited by SeanValen, 21 May 2012 - 22:17.


#20084 Muz Bee

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 23:15

I think that remark is lost on people who consider Schumacher unbeaten record as a thorn in their side. They prefer to read this as it suits them. You can't beat him in records, thus you smuge his reputation. It's a shame.

The great record of Michael Schumacher up to his retirement in 2006 is somehow read into his CAREER MkII to give him some kind of rites of passage. Michael who can do know wrong for some people who fail to believe in the old adage "you're only as good as your last race" - this term should be used with some license - and keep harking back to a Michael Schumacher very different to this one in the 2010s. Massa is an example of a driver who is not a shadow of his earlier self and should be replaced some time soon. Schumacher has been cast as much slack as anyone and for two seasons he was trounced nearly every weekend by his teammate. Fortunately for him in 2012 he has continued the upswing in performance that became evident late in 2011 and he is now producing a level which has in recent weeks been on par with Rosberg if we take the China win out of the equation as "extraordinary".

I spent some effort over the last two years watching someone who made a mockery of his great record in the sport and hearing "fans" saying they would be happy to see him even if he wasn't performing well. This I find as illogical as Rossi fans celebrating Stoner's retirement from MotoGP. Racing is racing, hero worship is something different. Hero worship knows little of rationality; I have for a long time had a belief that Nico Rosberg would one day prove the faith that many had in his talent and become a race winner and champion. I must confess that despite the China win I am now struggling to believe he is truly top shelf.

Talk of a 44 year old Schumacher joining Vettel in 2013 made me chuckle, Michael makes too many errors and lacks raw pace to be put in the top league with all the great drivers in F1 today. You can tidy up a fast, young, ragged driver, but you can't put more speed into an old, slow driver. Paul diResta would be a good replacement for Mercedes.

Regards, "smudging (sic) his reputation" Michael has done that on his own. Senna did it to himself. We don't see such rubbish from many drivers pre 1990s and thankfully it hasn't grown in frequency too much.

Edited by Muz Bee, 21 May 2012 - 23:35.


#20085 TheBunk

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 00:06

and for two seasons he was trounced nearly every weekend by his teammate. Fortunately for him in 2012 he has continued the upswing in performance that became evident late in 2011 and he is now producing a level which has in recent weeks been on par with Rosberg if we take the China win out of the equation as "extraordinary".

I spent some effort over the last two years watching someone who made a mockery of his great record in the sport and hearing "fans" saying they would be happy to see him even if he wasn't performing well. This I find as illogical as Rossi fans celebrating Stoner's retirement from MotoGP. Racing is racing, hero worship is something different. Hero worship knows little of rationality; I have for a long time had a belief that Nico Rosberg would one day prove the faith that many had in his talent and become a race winner and champion. I must confess that despite the China win I am now struggling to believe he is truly top shelf.

Talk of a 44 year old Schumacher joining Vettel in 2013 made me chuckle, Michael makes too many errors and lacks raw pace to be put in the top league with all the great drivers in F1 today. You can tidy up a fast, young, ragged driver, but you can't put more speed into an old, slow driver. Paul diResta would be a good replacement for Mercedes.

Regards, "smudging (sic) his reputation" Michael has done that on his own. Senna did it to himself. We don't see such rubbish from many drivers pre 1990s and thankfully it hasn't grown in frequency too much.


Actually, Schumacher hasnt been error free in his entire career. Roebuck and Stewart often said Schumacher makes too many mistakes to be considered top driver. Then he started winning 7 championships and they shut up.

It just goes up and down. This years hes doing fine against rosberg, despite schumacher driving at 80% according to mark hughes. Its not a difference of night and day like massa and alonso. And Merc apparently lets him decide what he wants to do. Rightfully so imo. Roll on Monaco.


#20086 SeanValen

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 00:33

Actually, Schumacher hasnt been error free in his entire career. Roebuck and Stewart often said Schumacher makes too many mistakes to be considered top driver. Then he started winning 7 championships and they shut up.

It just goes up and down. This years hes doing fine against rosberg, despite schumacher driving at 80% according to mark hughes. Its not a difference of night and day like massa and alonso. And Merc apparently lets him decide what he wants to do. Rightfully so imo. Roll on Monaco.



:up:
Schumacher riskes alot in his driving, if you saw Spa 1998 and compare to Canada 2011, both wet effected GPS, Martin Brundle commenting "Schumacher getting right up on the kerbs", Brundle said the same of Schumi at Canada 2011, I think that's when Schumacher is really interesting to watch, because his will and determination of a result is injected into the laptimes and driving, searching for those extra centermetres of the racing line/grip. Sometimes when Schumacher is sensing a result/or inspired to make certain time up-Huingary 98 laptimes, he's provided something to races we don't quite get the same from others, true hard edge grit.

When he pulls it off, you can see why he's won so muich, and when he doesnt, you know he still risking and putting it out there. Schumacher did get the highest placed finishes in 2011 for mercedes because of these risks. These rules are not probabley the best for him in my view, because were not seeing the true Schumacher who wants to push, the tyre characteistics might not always help out. If the 2011 Mercedes was a faster car, I would of prefered it if pirelli kept the compounds of last year, so we can see Schumacher attack more, his race from the back at bahrain was very good, but I think we were robbed of a bit more aggression due to tyre worries, yence the reason he came out dissing the tyres, something he feels strongly about and heavily discussed in forums already.

Edited by SeanValen, 22 May 2012 - 00:35.


#20087 Sakae

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 01:54

The great record of Michael Schumacher up to his retirement in 2006 is somehow read into his CAREER MkII to give him some kind of rites of passage. Michael who can do know wrong for some people who fail to believe in the old adage "you're only as good as your last race" - this term should be used with some license - and keep harking back to a Michael Schumacher very different to this one in the 2010s. Massa is an example of a driver who is not a shadow of his earlier self and should be replaced some time soon. Schumacher has been cast as much slack as anyone and for two seasons he was trounced nearly every weekend by his teammate. Fortunately for him in 2012 he has continued the upswing in performance that became evident late in 2011 and he is now producing a level which has in recent weeks been on par with Rosberg if we take the China win out of the equation as "extraordinary".

I spent some effort over the last two years watching someone who made a mockery of his great record in the sport and hearing "fans" saying they would be happy to see him even if he wasn't performing well. This I find as illogical as Rossi fans celebrating Stoner's retirement from MotoGP. Racing is racing, hero worship is something different. Hero worship knows little of rationality; I have for a long time had a belief that Nico Rosberg would one day prove the faith that many had in his talent and become a race winner and champion. I must confess that despite the China win I am now struggling to believe he is truly top shelf.

Talk of a 44 year old Schumacher joining Vettel in 2013 made me chuckle, Michael makes too many errors and lacks raw pace to be put in the top league with all the great drivers in F1 today. You can tidy up a fast, young, ragged driver, but you can't put more speed into an old, slow driver. Paul diResta would be a good replacement for Mercedes.

Regards, "smudging (sic) his reputation" Michael has done that on his own. Senna did it to himself. We don't see such rubbish from many drivers pre 1990s and thankfully it hasn't grown in frequency too much.

Michael is a man who lives at the edge who never stopped pushing boundaries where others back off. He goes out while exploring new possibilities, paving the way, and surprisingly not everything works well all the time. It is his signature, and that’s where men and boys are separated. One could learn, as I did, to appreciate that, instead bark on it.
Reality settles in, that not everyone in the current flock of drivers carries burden of being a multiple champion who works with a crew in development, facing new rules, new equipment, and also new techniques. I do not expect that all people will understand complexity of it, but I am trying to. For me he is unique in history of F1 racing, standing alone, unequaled and unchallenged. I enjoy his time with us, and I am grateful for it.


#20088 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:18

:up:
Schumacher riskes alot in his driving, if you saw Spa 1998 and compare to Canada 2011, both wet effected GPS, Martin Brundle commenting "Schumacher getting right up on the kerbs", Brundle said the same of Schumi at Canada 2011, I think that's when Schumacher is really interesting to watch, because his will and determination of a result is injected into the laptimes and driving, searching for those extra centermetres of the racing line/grip. Sometimes when Schumacher is sensing a result/or inspired to make certain time up-Huingary 98 laptimes, he's provided something to races we don't quite get the same from others, true hard edge grit.

When he pulls it off, you can see why he's won so muich, and when he doesnt, you know he still risking and putting it out there. Schumacher did get the highest placed finishes in 2011 for mercedes because of these risks. These rules are not probabley the best for him in my view, because were not seeing the true Schumacher who wants to push, the tyre characteistics might not always help out. If the 2011 Mercedes was a faster car, I would of prefered it if pirelli kept the compounds of last year, so we can see Schumacher attack more, his race from the back at bahrain was very good, but I think we were robbed of a bit more aggression due to tyre worries, yence the reason he came out dissing the tyres, something he feels strongly about and heavily discussed in forums already.


:up:

#20089 Clatter

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 10:41

Yes but you have believed for many years that Michael should get a race ban for variously being Michael, his chin, looking at you funny, beating xyz driver, existing etc etc.

A race ban for that would have been not only excessive but completely outrageous. You don't even have to look back a year to see much much worse moves from annoyed drivers, including the supposed victim in this case.


I agree I have certainly believed he should have been banned in the past. Anyone who deliberately drives into another doesn't deserve to be on the race track. The rest of your sentence is just the usual childish nonsense.

If there have been worse moves in the past then it just shows the authorities are not doing a good enough job in clamping down on it. Harsh punishment would soon put an end to it, and in this case I personally think it would be deserved.

#20090 baddog

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:02

I agree I have certainly believed he should have been banned in the past. Anyone who deliberately drives into another doesn't deserve to be on the race track. The rest of your sentence is just the usual childish nonsense.

If there have been worse moves in the past then it just shows the authorities are not doing a good enough job in clamping down on it. Harsh punishment would soon put an end to it, and in this case I personally think it would be deserved.

Sure, but I doubt any of us would enjoy your sugar-coated F1 of people pretending to have no emotions. ALL drivers worth a damn have expressed these things in similiar, harmless, ways.

#20091 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:06

Sure, but I doubt any of us would enjoy your sugar-coated F1 of people pretending to have no emotions. ALL drivers worth a damn have expressed these things in similiar, harmless, ways.


:up: :up: :up: :up:

They'd not only be people pretending to have emotions, but they'd be distracted by the huge haemorrhoids and ulcers that they'd develop in the process. :D

Edited by ali_M, 22 May 2012 - 11:08.


#20092 Hacklerf

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:08

Tell you what pisses me off, i know this guy who every time i see him he goes on about Schumacher wasting a F1 seat, stopping some young drivers coming through etc. This really annoys me because he then says how Schumacher has been terrible this year and said that if Massa has the knives out for him for only getting 2 points, so should Schumi after being embarrassed by Rosberg. This guys been watching F1 for over 30 years, and i sometimes wonder to myself, what races are these people watching? I mean, Schuamcher this year has has such bad luck that its unreal, i mean the DNF that come from the car not him, ok he makes 1 mistake for hitting Senna, that was silly, but he was pushing, maximum attack as he knew his rubber was not to be wasted.

How many other athletes could operate at his level, at his age? not many i would say! i dont know why people cant just appreciate that a legend is still competitive and actually a honor to still be able to watch. He wont be around on track forever, and im just glad we still get to watch him. Not many drivers could cause such discussions, so i guess its true about the tallest tree.

#20093 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:12

Tell you what pisses me off, i know this guy who every time i see him he goes on about Schumacher wasting a F1 seat, stopping some young drivers coming through etc. This really annoys me because he then says how Schumacher has been terrible this year and said that if Massa has the knives out for him for only getting 2 points, so should Schumi after being embarrassed by Rosberg. This guys been watching F1 for over 30 years, and i sometimes wonder to myself, what races are these people watching? I mean, Schuamcher this year has has such bad luck that its unreal, i mean the DNF that come from the car not him, ok he makes 1 mistake for hitting Senna, that was silly, but he was pushing, maximum attack as he knew his rubber was not to be wasted.

How many other athletes could operate at his level, at his age? not many i would say! i dont know why people cant just appreciate that a legend is still competitive and actually a honor to still be able to watch. He wont be around on track forever, and im just glad we still get to watch him. Not many drivers could cause such discussions, so i guess its true about the tallest tree.


It's all about the different perspectives that we see the world and Schumi through. It's food for thought that they may well look at your own perspective with similar frustration. There's room for the differences in so long as we don't fight too much over it. :p

Edited by ali_M, 22 May 2012 - 11:13.


#20094 Hacklerf

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:17

I know what you mean, he gets aggressive over it, and i think because i dont, it gets him more mad hah

#20095 Clatter

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:31

Sure, but I doubt any of us would enjoy your sugar-coated F1 of people pretending to have no emotions. ALL drivers worth a damn have expressed these things in similiar, harmless, ways.


Thats fine, but I personally believe there was a clear and obvious danger in his actions. The stewards decided that a reprimand was enough, personally I think a sterner punishment would not have been out of order.

#20096 Pits

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:54

Great onboard of Schumacher quali Monaco 2011!
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
:smoking:

#20097 Gareth

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:08

A race ban for that would have been not only excessive but completely outrageous. You don't even have to look back a year to see much much worse moves from annoyed drivers, including the supposed victim in this case.

The only other time I have seen someone cut a circuit to "get their own back" on another driver for a perceived wrong was discussed in this thread: http://forums.autosp...w...&hl=revenge

#20098 TheBunk

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:30

The only other time I have seen someone cut a circuit to "get their own back" on another driver for a perceived wrong was discussed in this thread: http://forums.autosp...w...&hl=revenge


Probably not the first time one driver tries to get back at another though.

#20099 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 12:44

Probably not the first time one driver tries to get back at another though.


Additionally, we assume that we hear or are made aware of all of them. Schumi is more under the microscope than the majority of the grid. There are so many who love 'taking a piece' out of him in order to diminish him because they resent his presence in F1 now. Once he does something wrong, it's way overblown. Once he does something positive, efforts are made to diminish the value of it. On the one hand you're hearing that he has not earned his place in F1 today on merit, but instead, because of his record. Yet, those same voices are first to condemn him for anything he does now because he's the most experienced and most accomplished. A convenient double-standard, isn't it? :smoking:

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#20100 Gareth

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 13:29

There are so many who love 'taking a piece' out of him in order to diminish him because they resent his presence in F1 now.

I was a massive Schumacher fan back during his first career (check out some of my oldest posts and you'll see me defending him hammer and tongues) and remain a fan to this day (albeit he's second in my affections now - his fault for leaving :p ). I think that whilst he is not the driver he once was, he is performing at a standard that deserves an F1 seat (ie he's at least an average F1 driver today) and that at age 43 that is an incredible achievement that, to me, only adds to his status as one of the greatest in the sport.

I think what he did in FP was a dumb move. I'm sure others have pulled a move that was motivated (at least in part) by a desire to "get revenge". Those people at least have the benefit of plausible deniability. The second you cut the circuit to pull the move you go from "benefit of the doubt" to "it is completely inarguable that I am doing anything other than retaliating". IMO he got off very light for that one.