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#20101 TheBunk

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 13:48

I was a massive Schumacher fan back during his first career (check out some of my oldest posts and you'll see me defending him hammer and tongues) and remain a fan to this day (albeit he's second in my affections now - his fault for leaving :p ). I think that whilst he is not the driver he once was, he is performing at a standard that deserves an F1 seat (ie he's at least an average F1 driver today) and that at age 43 that is an incredible achievement that, to me, only adds to his status as one of the greatest in the sport.

I think what he did in FP was a dumb move. I'm sure others have pulled a move that was motivated (at least in part) by a desire to "get revenge". Those people at least have the benefit of plausible deniability. The second you cut the circuit to pull the move you go from "benefit of the doubt" to "it is completely inarguable that I am doing anything other than retaliating". IMO he got off very light for that one.


Yes but retaliating for an earlier action on him should be a mitigating factor. What exactly did Lewis do to make Schumacher so upset?

Me, i was much more angry about his customary start line chops on rivals. Shoving Alonso off track at 300kmh on hangar straight. That oughta got punished. This was not as dangerous by a long shot.

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#20102 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 13:52

I was a massive Schumacher fan back during his first career (check out some of my oldest posts and you'll see me defending him hammer and tongues) and remain a fan to this day (albeit he's second in my affections now - his fault for leaving :p ). I think that whilst he is not the driver he once was, he is performing at a standard that deserves an F1 seat (ie he's at least an average F1 driver today) and that at age 43 that is an incredible achievement that, to me, only adds to his status as one of the greatest in the sport.

I think what he did in FP was a dumb move. I'm sure others have pulled a move that was motivated (at least in part) by a desire to "get revenge". Those people at least have the benefit of plausible deniability. The second you cut the circuit to pull the move you go from "benefit of the doubt" to "it is completely inarguable that I am doing anything other than retaliating". IMO he got off very light for that one.


We all do dumb things at some point. We're lucky to not have a camera showing all of them. I doubt there's a single person here who disagrees that what he did was dumb and driven by emotion. I don't know who here hasn't found him or herself apologising after DUMB behaviour in the heat of the moment. Nothing happened as a result of what Schumi did and there wasn't a reasonable amount of risk in what he did that something could have happened. The stewards are right on with finishing it off with a reprimand. No one mature and responsible will heavily penalise Michael for what he did there. Too much judgmental slur around here. I'm 44 and can be very emotional myself, testosterone laced and all. We all know about road rage and boy, have I done some obstructing when I felt I was hard done in traffic. Some may call it childish, but boy, oh boy, did I find it satisfying at the time.

So you and others here wouldn't do a thing like that under similar circumstances. Fine... more power to you, and salutations to you all. :wave: I can only breath a sigh of relief that the judicial system doesn't find people guilty of things that never happened, of things that didn't have reasonable risk of happening and of behaving childishly in a fit of emotion.

I'd give it a rest.... really. :smoking:

Edited by ali_M, 22 May 2012 - 13:56.


#20103 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 14:03



Rossi however says that he still believes he can challenge at the front, and was therefore pleased to seize the opportunity presented to him by a wet Le Mans circuit.

"I've heard many things about me lately, [and] honestly it pissed me off," Rossi told Gazzetta dello Sport. "It's as if I'm old at 33, but I'm not. I feel in shape and I've had the chance to demonstrate it."

The seven-time champion added that triumphing over Casey Stoner during the pair's late battle in France was almost more rewarding than securing his best ever finish for Ducati.


Schumi deserves a similar break and I hope that he gets one soon.

He got it in Canada last year, but the critics are so rabid that it will take a lot more than a one-off to get them silenced. :smoking:




#20104 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 16:20

Schumi deserves a similar break and I hope that he gets one soon.

He got it in Canada last year, but the critics are so rabid that it will take a lot more than a one-off to get them silenced. :smoking:


The critics are so rabid because he kicked arse from 1991-2006 regularly, consistently and at the highest level. They've had do wait until he turned into an old man with equipement that doesn't work half the time, poor judgement and pitstop errors to turn around and say "haha, I told you that he was no good....remember 1994 and 1997???? REMEMBER!!!! REMEMBER!!!! DO YOU REMEMBER????!!!!"

This is their day in the sun, let them enjoy it.

#20105 ali_M

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 18:10

The critics are so rabid because he kicked arse from 1991-2006 regularly, consistently and at the highest level. They've had do wait until he turned into an old man with equipement that doesn't work half the time, poor judgement and pitstop errors to turn around and say "haha, I told you that he was no good....remember 1994 and 1997???? REMEMBER!!!! REMEMBER!!!! DO YOU REMEMBER????!!!!"

This is their day in the sun, let them enjoy it.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
What makes it so funny, for me anyway, is that you're perfectly correct.

#20106 spacekid

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 19:57

The critics are so rabid because he kicked arse from 1991-2006 regularly, consistently and at the highest level. They've had do wait until he turned into an old man with equipement that doesn't work half the time, poor judgement and pitstop errors to turn around and say "haha, I told you that he was no good....remember 1994 and 1997???? REMEMBER!!!! REMEMBER!!!! DO YOU REMEMBER????!!!!"

This is their day in the sun, let them enjoy it.


Absolutely nail bang on the head. Its simply impossible to go a whole page of talking about MS without being reminded that he only ever competed in 4 races.

All those involved seem to have moved on, I have no clue what generates the level of bitterness we see on here.

Anyway, moving on I don't think a good result is on the cards in Monaco, but I'm really hoping a strong drive is, thats what really matters. It will be his last time round there, I really hope he can show his stuff!

#20107 jj2728

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 19:58

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
What makes it so funny, for me anyway, is that you're perfectly correct.


What makes it even funnier is that 9 times out of 10 it's the Schumacher fan base that openly throws down the gauntlet. And some of us talk about lost credibility here.....

#20108 spacekid

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 20:02

I think what he did in FP was a dumb move. I'm sure others have pulled a move that was motivated (at least in part) by a desire to "get revenge". Those people at least have the benefit of plausible deniability. The second you cut the circuit to pull the move you go from "benefit of the doubt" to "it is completely inarguable that I am doing anything other than retaliating". IMO he got off very light for that one.


Compleltely agree with all the above.

I would add though - this is a big boys sport, and I think a lot of this sort of thing goes on. I remember Hamilton and Maldonado last year.

Drivers get frustrated, I'm sure everyone involved was well moved on from this by Q1. Its just TV pundits (justifying being on air) and the message boards who blow these incidents out of proportion.

Edited by spacekid, 22 May 2012 - 21:13.


#20109 1Devil1

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 21:25

What are you're hopes for the race weekend? Hopefully Michael has a good qualifying and can get a position between three and five that he can in start in the top ten. Podium finish is only a dream - hard but true. When has a good start perhaps he can go for a different strategy. Maybe one stop less than the others to protect his position till the end with the knife between his teeth. I would love to see that fight. But no it's Mercedes they will screw it up again :rotfl:

#20110 ali_M

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 00:59

What makes it even funnier is that 9 times out of 10 it's the Schumacher fan base that openly throws down the gauntlet. And some of us talk about lost credibility here.....


Your persistence with this negative speak is quite something. The fans need their alter-egos though. Maintains the balance.

Your opinions are most appreciated. Credibility issues notwithstanding. :kiss:

#20111 ali_M

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 01:00

What are you're hopes for the race weekend? Hopefully Michael has a good qualifying and can get a position between three and five that he can in start in the top ten. Podium finish is only a dream - hard but true. When has a good start perhaps he can go for a different strategy. Maybe one stop less than the others to protect his position till the end with the knife between his teeth. I would love to see that fight. But no it's Mercedes they will screw it up again :rotfl:


I'm mentally numb where expectations are concerned. Let's just see what happens and be, as usual, prepared for the worst.

#20112 Hacklerf

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:48

The thing about Monaco, is , it is a lottery to some extent i think this year it might be a cracker, can you imagine, the leader is out front, tyres shot to bits, the pack catches him, it will be Senna Mansel stuff!

I think Schumi will have a good race, with the 5 place penalty i would expect him to maybe 8-10 on the grid, not the best place to start, but with if the luck which has deserted him this year returns, who knows?!

Personally i think Kimi will win it.

#20113 ivand911

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:54

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Kissing a Princess. I guess she like "younger" boys. :p
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Ooh, man. There will be some conversations at home.
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Match finish 2:2. MS played 90 minutes.

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Edited by ivand911, 23 May 2012 - 13:56.


#20114 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:57

Starting within the top 10 should be the goal for Sunday.

#20115 BetaVersion

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 00:01

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Petrov seems like: "There is no such thing as football in Russia. I don't wanna play it"
and Schumi seems like : "Come on Vitaly, we can win it"
:p
Perez seems to be supporting Schumi's attitude while Massa also seems uninterested in the game.


On another note, anybody interested in purchaising one of this:
http://sniffpetrol.s...w.aspx?pid=4522

:p

#20116 Wade

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:09

I'm most likely gonna miss the rest of the season. No cable, TV, and internet for me in the next few months starting tomorrow.

I wanna wish good luck to Michael. I still believe he will have a race or 2 wherein he'll get a podium or heck, even a win. It's a shame I won't be able to witness it but I would be happy for other MS fans as well. I hope by the time I come back, I hear some good news.

See you soon guys! :)

#20117 Sakae

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:19

I'm most likely gonna miss the rest of the season. No cable, TV, and internet for me in the next few months starting tomorrow.

I wanna wish good luck to Michael. I still believe he will have a race or 2 wherein he'll get a podium or heck, even a win. It's a shame I won't be able to witness it but I would be happy for other MS fans as well. I hope by the time I come back, I hear some good news.

See you soon guys! :)

Friends of Schumacher are always welcomed in here. Hopefully you will be back soon; we need every hand we can get lately. :)

#20118 sheogorath

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:51

I'm pretty sure if any other driver, at some point in the previous races had done anything remotely similar to what Shumacher did to Hamilton, people would be calling for their heads instead of spinning it as "just a little bit of frustration" and "media just looking for ratings".

#20119 ali_M

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:23

I'm pretty sure if any other driver, at some point in the previous races had done anything remotely similar to what Shumacher did to Hamilton, people would be calling for their heads instead of spinning it as "just a little bit of frustration" and "media just looking for ratings".


Nice try.... :smoking:

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#20120 Massa_f1

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 16:26

Was good to hear Jerome on the sky commentary today say the accident with senna did not deserve a grid penalty, and Senna moved in the breaking zone. Nice to hear at least one fellow driver agreeing with MSC

#20121 spacekid

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 17:39

I'm pretty sure if any other driver, at some point in the previous races had done anything remotely similar to what Shumacher did to Hamilton, people would be calling for their heads instead of spinning it as "just a little bit of frustration" and "media just looking for ratings".


I'm pretty sure if Ricciardo had done that to Di Resta no one would have given a damn.

#20122 Coops3

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 17:46

I'm pretty sure if Ricciardo had done that to Di Resta no one would have given a damn.


Good comeback and a very valid point! It doesn't escape the fact that it was dodgy behaviour from Schumi though...

#20123 zelpre

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:02

I think we should forget about top 10 on grid to the race...car is just not competitive..

#20124 spacekid

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:10

Good comeback and a very valid point! It doesn't escape the fact that it was dodgy behaviour from Schumi though...


Oh absolutely not. Sometimes he can be a bit of a tool. No one is perfect, we all get frustrated and do stupid things sometimes.

#20125 Coops3

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:18

Oh absolutely not. Sometimes he can be a bit of a tool. No one is perfect, we all get frustrated and do stupid things sometimes.


Yep, agreed. :up:

#20126 sheogorath

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:29

I'm pretty sure if Ricciardo had done that to Di Resta no one would have given a damn.

And I'm pretty sure if Maldonado had done that to Hamilton or Schumacher, people would be asking to give him a lifetime ban from all forms of racing.

#20127 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 18:35

And I'm pretty sure if Maldonado had done that to Hamilton or Schumacher, people would be asking to give him a lifetime ban from all forms of racing.


you're seriously wrong, not that it matters. Most of us would laugh our behinds off. As did LH, most possibly.


#20128 race addicted

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 19:30

Starting within the top 10 should be the goal for Sunday.


That's very ambitious. I think row six or seven is realistic, but if he can pull off a one-stopper from there, he should and could have a very, very good race!

#20129 aditya-now

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 20:51

Friends of Schumacher are always welcomed in here. Hopefully you will be back soon; we need every hand we can get lately. :)


That sounds already desperate, Sakae  ;)

Defending the indefensible.....

Anyway, we love you Schumacher fans here on the BB, like Michael you had added a lot to the sport in the last 21 years....

#20130 aditya-now

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 20:57

Was good to hear Jerome on the sky commentary today say the accident with senna did not deserve a grid penalty, and Senna moved in the breaking zone. Nice to hear at least one fellow driver agreeing with MSC


At least one fellow driver agrees with MSC...what's up with the others?


#20131 jbarokF1

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:14

Was good to hear Jerome on the sky commentary today say the accident with senna did not deserve a grid penalty, and Senna moved in the breaking zone. Nice to hear at least one fellow driver agreeing with MSC


Unfortunately, he was not one of the stewards...

But personally, I think I would have just given MS a warning instead of grid penalty..

#20132 MightyMoose

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:29

This weekend is a great one, maybe the best of the year for Motor Sports fans, may I suggest that those who wish to keep the privilege of posting here over the weekend refrain from collective grouping of certain people in a flaming paragraph.

Hope we all enjoy the racing.

#20133 aditya-now

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:35

Unfortunately, he was not one of the stewards...

But personally, I think I would have just given MS a warning instead of grid penalty..


The penalty was too harsh, racing incident, although Schumi should have known better after so many years.
Schumi's retaliation move against Hamilton was much more ill-tempered.

Meanwhile, Gerhard Berger claims the tyre talk is all Schumacher's and the teams excuses..."it is bullshit that the tyres decide everything." he said, "some like Schumacher and Red Bull are looking for an easy excuse to their problems."

"Es ist ein Blödsinn, dass die Reifen alles entscheiden. Da suchen einige wie Michael Schumacher oder Red Bull eine einfache Entschuldigung für ihre Probleme."

Berger claims the disappearance of the blown diffuser as well as of the bendable front wings are equalizers of the field just as well as the tires. Teams and individuals blaming all on the tyres are just trying to cover up their own problems, in the case of Red Bull that they don't win automatically anymore.

Tyre knowledge, on the other hand, receives it's due reward - according to Gerhard.

http://www.auto-moto...de-4981369.html

Edited by aditya-now, 24 May 2012 - 21:37.


#20134 ali_M

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 23:22

At least one fellow driver agrees with MSC...what's up with the others?


Probably minding their own business as is most often the case...

#20135 ali_M

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 23:25

The penalty was too harsh, racing incident, although Schumi should have known better after so many years.
Schumi's retaliation move against Hamilton was much more ill-tempered.

Meanwhile, Gerhard Berger claims the tyre talk is all Schumacher's and the teams excuses..."it is bullshit that the tyres decide everything." he said, "some like Schumacher and Red Bull are looking for an easy excuse to their problems."

"Es ist ein Blödsinn, dass die Reifen alles entscheiden. Da suchen einige wie Michael Schumacher oder Red Bull eine einfache Entschuldigung für ihre Probleme."

Berger claims the disappearance of the blown diffuser as well as of the bendable front wings are equalizers of the field just as well as the tires. Teams and individuals blaming all on the tyres are just trying to cover up their own problems, in the case of Red Bull that they don't win automatically anymore.

Tyre knowledge, on the other hand, receives it's due reward - according to Gerhard.

http://www.auto-moto...de-4981369.html


Firstly, Michael never claimed once that the tyres are deciding EVERYTHING.

I suggest watching his initial comments and again and see for yourself. I wonder if Berger really took the time to listen to what Michael had to say rather than respond to someone's claims on what Michael had to say?

One thing's for sure... Michael isn't making any excuses for his current issues so far. That's all made up by those who read way too much between the lines.

#20136 jj2728

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 00:19

One thing's for sure... Michael isn't making any excuses for his current issues so far. That's all made up by those who read way too much between the lines.


Like many that frequent this forum......

#20137 Sakae

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:34

That sounds already desperate, Sakae ;)

Defending the indefensible.....

Anyway, we love you Schumacher fans here on the BB, like Michael you had added a lot to the sport in the last 21 years....

I am making my way to Frankfurt (from Toronto). You can tell me then all about Monaco. :D

#20138 exmayol

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:17

Now that there are no expectations from this GP it's time for MS to surprise everyone despite all the odds ;)

#20139 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:13

I wonder if Berger really took the time to listen to what Michael had to say rather than respond to someone's claims on what Michael had to say?


Berger, such a funny guy.

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#20140 libano

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:46

The list of people Michael practically retired during the course of his carreer is long. Put a mic in front of them or give them a steward's seat and they'll retaliate. It's just a testament of how dominant he was...

#20141 Clatter

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:41

The list of people Michael practically retired during the course of his carreer is long. Put a mic in front of them or give them a steward's seat and they'll retaliate. It's just a testament of how dominant he was...


Very childish comment. :rolleyes:

#20142 1Devil1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:44

Very childish comment. :rolleyes:


I liked it :lol: Well observed - All the mediocre drivers say the most crap about Schumacher. Never heard comments like that for example out of the mouth of Hakkinen.

#20143 aliasj

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:30

Well to be fair, Berger has been quite supportive of Schumacher throughout. He's quite fair. I think its totally acceptable for people to be fair, have their opinions, sometimes agree and sometimes disagree, that's freedom. However, there ARE some people, mostly a group of journalists, ex-team mates, very old drivers who never won championships, etc., who are not only unfair, but totally offensive towards Schumacher, no matter what. Those guys, deserve a kick up their backside.

#20144 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:50

Hasn't Berger been quite "anti" ever since half-way through Schumacher's first comeback year? He said he's got "no chance against Rosberg" several times in the last two years and that he's not competitive enough.

#20145 DutchCruijff

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:20

Can someone post up a vid on Flavio commenting on Berger being "shit" following Schumacher. :p

#20146 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 13:48

I liked it :lol: Well observed - All the mediocre drivers say the most crap about Schumacher. Never heard comments like that for example out of the mouth of Hakkinen.


It's interesting that for me the irony of that claim of childishness from one I think can be so childish with his anti-shumacher comments. :smoking:

You are definitely spot on. The real accomplishers never criticize Michael's achievements and ability. If they criticize anything, it's usually his character. That's worth some discussion in terms of validity and an overall judgment, but not his abilities and achievements.

#20147 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 13:50

Hasn't Berger been quite "anti" ever since half-way through Schumacher's first comeback year? He said he's got "no chance against Rosberg" several times in the last two years and that he's not competitive enough.


Yes.... and it's difficult to eat one's words. Much easier to find ways to endorse them. Berger can be tiring too often. One may troll on lists, but there's also trolling with the media. Berger can do that at times. Just flagrantly say things with too much abandon.

Well to be fair, Berger has been quite supportive of Schumacher throughout. He's quite fair. I think its totally acceptable for people to be fair, have their opinions, sometimes agree and sometimes disagree, that's freedom. However, there ARE some people, mostly a group of journalists, ex-team mates, very old drivers who never won championships, etc., who are not only unfair, but totally offensive towards Schumacher, no matter what. Those guys, deserve a kick up their backside.


Kick up the backside is harsh, I'll say, but otherwise.... :up:

Edited by ali_M, 25 May 2012 - 13:51.


#20148 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 14:37

Ross Brawn says the team has let down Schumacher, and must improve, but that doesnt prevent Benson from writing:

Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18204882

Just when you thought Benson couldnt get to a lower level.

:down:

#20149 1Devil1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:09

Ross Brawn says the team has let down Schumacher, and must improve, but that doesnt prevent Benson from writing:

Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18204882

Just when you thought Benson couldnt get to a lower level.

:down:



The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the same in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Earlier he stated that the team let Michael down too often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.

edit: spelling mistakes

Edited by 1Devil1, 25 May 2012 - 15:54.


#20150 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:26

The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the seem in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Early he stated that the team let Michael down to often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.


But he doesnt say anything new. Its just a rehash of words, wich Benson uses to write it as if Mercedes wants Michael to improve, full stop.

Disgraceful. Bah!