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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#20151 MightyMoose

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:29

This weekend is a great one, maybe the best of the year for Motor Sports fans, may I suggest that those who wish to keep the privilege of posting here over the weekend refrain from collective grouping of certain people in a flaming paragraph.

Hope we all enjoy the racing.

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#20152 aditya-now

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 21:35

Unfortunately, he was not one of the stewards...

But personally, I think I would have just given MS a warning instead of grid penalty..


The penalty was too harsh, racing incident, although Schumi should have known better after so many years.
Schumi's retaliation move against Hamilton was much more ill-tempered.

Meanwhile, Gerhard Berger claims the tyre talk is all Schumacher's and the teams excuses..."it is bullshit that the tyres decide everything." he said, "some like Schumacher and Red Bull are looking for an easy excuse to their problems."

"Es ist ein Blödsinn, dass die Reifen alles entscheiden. Da suchen einige wie Michael Schumacher oder Red Bull eine einfache Entschuldigung für ihre Probleme."

Berger claims the disappearance of the blown diffuser as well as of the bendable front wings are equalizers of the field just as well as the tires. Teams and individuals blaming all on the tyres are just trying to cover up their own problems, in the case of Red Bull that they don't win automatically anymore.

Tyre knowledge, on the other hand, receives it's due reward - according to Gerhard.

http://www.auto-moto...de-4981369.html

Edited by aditya-now, 24 May 2012 - 21:37.


#20153 ali_M

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 23:22

At least one fellow driver agrees with MSC...what's up with the others?


Probably minding their own business as is most often the case...

#20154 ali_M

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 23:25

The penalty was too harsh, racing incident, although Schumi should have known better after so many years.
Schumi's retaliation move against Hamilton was much more ill-tempered.

Meanwhile, Gerhard Berger claims the tyre talk is all Schumacher's and the teams excuses..."it is bullshit that the tyres decide everything." he said, "some like Schumacher and Red Bull are looking for an easy excuse to their problems."

"Es ist ein Blödsinn, dass die Reifen alles entscheiden. Da suchen einige wie Michael Schumacher oder Red Bull eine einfache Entschuldigung für ihre Probleme."

Berger claims the disappearance of the blown diffuser as well as of the bendable front wings are equalizers of the field just as well as the tires. Teams and individuals blaming all on the tyres are just trying to cover up their own problems, in the case of Red Bull that they don't win automatically anymore.

Tyre knowledge, on the other hand, receives it's due reward - according to Gerhard.

http://www.auto-moto...de-4981369.html


Firstly, Michael never claimed once that the tyres are deciding EVERYTHING.

I suggest watching his initial comments and again and see for yourself. I wonder if Berger really took the time to listen to what Michael had to say rather than respond to someone's claims on what Michael had to say?

One thing's for sure... Michael isn't making any excuses for his current issues so far. That's all made up by those who read way too much between the lines.

#20155 jj2728

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 00:19

One thing's for sure... Michael isn't making any excuses for his current issues so far. That's all made up by those who read way too much between the lines.


Like many that frequent this forum......

#20156 Sakae

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 01:34

That sounds already desperate, Sakae ;)

Defending the indefensible.....

Anyway, we love you Schumacher fans here on the BB, like Michael you had added a lot to the sport in the last 21 years....

I am making my way to Frankfurt (from Toronto). You can tell me then all about Monaco. :D

#20157 exmayol

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:17

Now that there are no expectations from this GP it's time for MS to surprise everyone despite all the odds ;)

#20158 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 06:13

I wonder if Berger really took the time to listen to what Michael had to say rather than respond to someone's claims on what Michael had to say?


Berger, such a funny guy.

#20159 libano

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 08:46

The list of people Michael practically retired during the course of his carreer is long. Put a mic in front of them or give them a steward's seat and they'll retaliate. It's just a testament of how dominant he was...

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#20160 Clatter

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 09:41

The list of people Michael practically retired during the course of his carreer is long. Put a mic in front of them or give them a steward's seat and they'll retaliate. It's just a testament of how dominant he was...


Very childish comment. :rolleyes:

#20161 1Devil1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 10:44

Very childish comment. :rolleyes:


I liked it :lol: Well observed - All the mediocre drivers say the most crap about Schumacher. Never heard comments like that for example out of the mouth of Hakkinen.

#20162 aliasj

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:30

Well to be fair, Berger has been quite supportive of Schumacher throughout. He's quite fair. I think its totally acceptable for people to be fair, have their opinions, sometimes agree and sometimes disagree, that's freedom. However, there ARE some people, mostly a group of journalists, ex-team mates, very old drivers who never won championships, etc., who are not only unfair, but totally offensive towards Schumacher, no matter what. Those guys, deserve a kick up their backside.

#20163 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:50

Hasn't Berger been quite "anti" ever since half-way through Schumacher's first comeback year? He said he's got "no chance against Rosberg" several times in the last two years and that he's not competitive enough.

#20164 DutchCruijff

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:20

Can someone post up a vid on Flavio commenting on Berger being "shit" following Schumacher. :p

#20165 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 13:48

I liked it :lol: Well observed - All the mediocre drivers say the most crap about Schumacher. Never heard comments like that for example out of the mouth of Hakkinen.


It's interesting that for me the irony of that claim of childishness from one I think can be so childish with his anti-shumacher comments. :smoking:

You are definitely spot on. The real accomplishers never criticize Michael's achievements and ability. If they criticize anything, it's usually his character. That's worth some discussion in terms of validity and an overall judgment, but not his abilities and achievements.

#20166 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 13:50

Hasn't Berger been quite "anti" ever since half-way through Schumacher's first comeback year? He said he's got "no chance against Rosberg" several times in the last two years and that he's not competitive enough.


Yes.... and it's difficult to eat one's words. Much easier to find ways to endorse them. Berger can be tiring too often. One may troll on lists, but there's also trolling with the media. Berger can do that at times. Just flagrantly say things with too much abandon.

Well to be fair, Berger has been quite supportive of Schumacher throughout. He's quite fair. I think its totally acceptable for people to be fair, have their opinions, sometimes agree and sometimes disagree, that's freedom. However, there ARE some people, mostly a group of journalists, ex-team mates, very old drivers who never won championships, etc., who are not only unfair, but totally offensive towards Schumacher, no matter what. Those guys, deserve a kick up their backside.


Kick up the backside is harsh, I'll say, but otherwise.... :up:

Edited by ali_M, 25 May 2012 - 13:51.


#20167 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 14:37

Ross Brawn says the team has let down Schumacher, and must improve, but that doesnt prevent Benson from writing:

Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18204882

Just when you thought Benson couldnt get to a lower level.

:down:

#20168 1Devil1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:09

Ross Brawn says the team has let down Schumacher, and must improve, but that doesnt prevent Benson from writing:

Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18204882

Just when you thought Benson couldnt get to a lower level.

:down:



The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the same in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Earlier he stated that the team let Michael down too often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.

edit: spelling mistakes

Edited by 1Devil1, 25 May 2012 - 15:54.


#20169 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:26

The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the seem in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Early he stated that the team let Michael down to often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.


But he doesnt say anything new. Its just a rehash of words, wich Benson uses to write it as if Mercedes wants Michael to improve, full stop.

Disgraceful. Bah!

#20170 zelpre

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:45

The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the seem in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Early he stated that the team let Michael down to often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.


:up: totally agree

#20171 jbarokF1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 15:55

The headline is tabloid - The article seems fine because I read the same in the german news. Ross had the feeling to correct his previous comments. Early he stated that the team let Michael down too often this season and now he is saying it's a team sport they make mistakes as collective - both Michael and the team have to improve. Quit honestly I have the feeling the mercedes elite forced Ross to say such things because it was no good marketing for the team but somehow I don't like the behavior of Ross sometimes he doesn't back up Michael like you think a good old friend would do.



:up:

I think saying MS needs to improve is just fair. Just 2 points in 5 races...anyone who does not agree is dellusional.
But having said that..I think the whole team needs to improve and that includes Rosberg (before I get to be accused of being biased)

#20172 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:01

:up:

I think saying MS needs to improve is just fair. Just 2 points in 5 races...anyone who does not agree is dellusional.
But having said that..I think the whole team needs to improve and that includes Rosberg (before I get to be accused of being biased)

Not really, I'd like him to improve but he doesn't need to, sure he needs to not run into the back of cars whilst overtaking but thats hardly an "improvement" he doesn't need to go away and practice how to avoid other cars. His qualifying form has been good this season as has his race pace while on the track, I'd like to see him drive faster obviously that's what you always want but it's unlikely to happen and his pace has been good anyway. I don't think the team have many improvements to make either, the gearbox failure cannot be blamed on them (I wouldn't ahve thought), Grosjean hitting Michael was not their fault either, the DRS malfunction was presumably not the team's fault, was just one of those things, the wheel nut problem would have been fine had the lights not told Michael to go, I don't know if they're manually operated so I guess if they are then that could be an area of improvement for the team, strategy has been average (why not pit Michael earlier in Malaysia? He had nothing to lose and if anyone can drive with slicks on a wet track its him surely?) but then that seems to have always been the case with Merc. I think Rosberg's been very good, he's won a race and scored solid points in most of the others although yes his driving in Malaysia was abysmal.

Whole thing has been blown way out of proportion, yes he only has two points but a lot has gone wrong and the things that have gone wrong have been outside both the team and Michael's control most of the time.

Ten years ago I would have been disappointed with this pace but now I only expect good driving and as such, to me at least, it doesn't appear as though he needs to improve.

Oh and I don't appreciate being called delusional. :p

#20173 D.M.N.

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:06

But he doesnt say anything new. Its just a rehash of words, wich Benson uses to write it as if Mercedes wants Michael to improve, full stop.

Disgraceful. Bah!

It's not really a rehash, it was quite clear in the press conference live yesterday that Brawn meant team, including Schumacher that need to up their game. So the headline "Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes" is fine.

Okay, probably should be worded a bit differently, but it's not disgraceful. As a Schumacher fan, I'd like to see him improve as well to be honest. 2 points after 5 races was not really what I wanted to see.

#20174 Disgrace

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:10

I think saying MS needs to improve is just fair.


Absolutely, given his standards, but it's just as fair to say that his position in the championship is likewise wholly unrepresentative of his overall performance thus far.

#20175 jbarokF1

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:12

Not really, I'd like him to improve but he doesn't need to, sure he needs to not run into the back of cars whilst overtaking but thats hardly an "improvement" he doesn't need to go away and practice how to avoid other cars. His qualifying form has been good this season as has his race pace while on the track, I'd like to see him drive faster obviously that's what you always want but it's unlikely to happen and his pace has been good anyway. I don't think the team have many improvements to make either, the gearbox failure cannot be blamed on them (I wouldn't ahve thought), Grosjean hitting Michael was not their fault either, the DRS malfunction was presumably not the team's fault, was just one of those things, the wheel nut problem would have been fine had the lights not told Michael to go, I don't know if they're manually operated so I guess if they are then that could be an area of improvement for the team, strategy has been average (why not pit Michael earlier in Malaysia? He had nothing to lose and if anyone can drive with slicks on a wet track its him surely?) but then that seems to have always been the case with Merc. I think Rosberg's been very good, he's won a race and scored solid points in most of the others although yes his driving in Malaysia was abysmal.

Whole thing has been blown way out of proportion, yes he only has two points but a lot has gone wrong and the things that have gone wrong have been outside both the team and Michael's control most of the time.

Ten years ago I would have been disappointed with this pace but now I only expect good driving and as such, to me at least, it doesn't appear as though he needs to improve.

Oh and I don't appreciate being called delusional. :p



Wow! what a long response...if you think they don't need to improve then that's fine...other teams will be more than happy...

Seems like Mercedes in 5th...Rosberg in 7th..and MS in lowly 18th is good enough for you...Though am quite sure Mercedes and its drivers don't agree with you.

There is nothing wrong about needing to improve(even McLaren and RedBulls who are at the top right now needs to improve)...if you keep blaming and justifying outside factors being all the main cause of your lack of points or good results then I guess that is a very wrong attitude.

Edited by jbarokF1, 25 May 2012 - 18:19.


#20176 Sakae

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:18

RB's message, as I understand it, is actually quite straight forward. They are all in it together, which includes Michael and team alike. There is not attempt that I would detect to blame, or fingerpoint anyone. It's a simple admission that things will have to be sorted out; conclusion I do agree with.

#20177 ivand911

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 18:40

:up:

I think saying MS needs to improve is just fair. Just 2 points in 5 races...anyone who does not agree is dellusional.
But having said that..I think the whole team needs to improve and that includes Rosberg (before I get to be accused of being biased)

Yeah, two points are not good. But, where he can improve in the races exactly? I see Spain as only possibility for that. He can get there maximum 8-10 points and to move from P16 to P14 in WDC. Huge. I am sure that with 12 points not everyone will be happy again. Maybe nobody.

It's not really a rehash, it was quite clear in the press conference live yesterday that Brawn meant team, including Schumacher that need to up their game. So the headline "Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes" is fine.
Okay, probably should be worded a bit differently, but it's not disgraceful. As a Schumacher fan, I'd like to see him improve as well to be honest. 2 points after 5 races was not really what I wanted to see.

Should tell the truth, it is easy even for me to see the difference from: "Brawn: MGP must improve" to "Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes". I don't think anyone here is surprised by the wording used by that guy. He is well know here for his uncorrect and manipulative articles and headlines concerning MS.

Edited by ivand911, 25 May 2012 - 18:48.


#20178 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 19:13

Wow! what a long response...if you think they don't need to improve then that's fine...other teams will be more than happy...

Seems like Mercedes in 5th...Rosberg in 7th..and MS in lowly 18th is good enough for you...Though am quite sure Mercedes and its drivers don't agree with you.

There is nothing wrong about needing to improve(even McLaren and RedBulls who are at the top right now needs to improve)...if you keep blaming and justifying outside factors being all the main cause of your lack of points or good results then I guess that is a very wrong attitude.

You're misunderstanding my point, possibly deliberately I'm not sure. Not once did I say 5th, 7th and 18th are good enough, don't put words in my mouth :p , what I was saying is that if Michael continues driving as he has been and the team keep doing as they have been then they'll move up the championship, they don't need to make improvements to get better results.
Why is it wrong to blame outside factors when they are to blame? People seem to think excuses are wrong but a legitimate excuse does exactly that, excuses you from blame, there's nothing wrong with that provided the excuses are factually accurate which, unless there's a grand cover up going on, I think they are.
A wrong attitude is one that looks for faults to fix when there aren't any there, when things aren't going right just stick at it and things will come good.
Can you point out any real areas to me where they need to improve?

#20179 sniper80

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 20:29

Di Resta will take Schumacher's seat next year, all signs lead to it. It would be nice to see Schumacher getting a podium or win this year to end his career on a high.

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#20180 puxanando

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 20:35

Di Resta will take Schumacher's seat next year, all signs lead to it. It would be nice to see Schumacher getting a podium or win this year to end his career on a high.


Looks like this! Don't believe in podium or victory of Schumi anymore!

I think it wasn't good idea to come back in F1 for him! Now there will be a very different memory....he will has lost much!!


#20181 ivand911

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 20:38

Di Resta will take Schumacher's seat next year, all signs lead to it. It would be nice to see Schumacher getting a podium or win this year to end his career on a high.

What signs? You mean Sky, manipulative article? He is on their radar , as 5-6 other drivers. Will be that update for better???? Will you bet against MS(vs DIR) in equal car? I wouldn't. Even at 43.

Edited by ivand911, 25 May 2012 - 20:42.


#20182 Longtimefan

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:04

What needs to improve is his luck.



#20183 Sakae

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:05

It's not really a rehash, it was quite clear in the press conference live yesterday that Brawn meant team, including Schumacher that need to up their game. So the headline "Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes" is fine.

Okay, probably should be worded a bit differently, but it's not disgraceful. As a Schumacher fan, I'd like to see him improve as well to be honest. 2 points after 5 races was not really what I wanted to see.

Language is (considering regularity, possibly therefore deliberately) skewed, and misleading. I much very doubt it would be the same headline if this would concern Hamilton, thus I too consider it shameful and disgraceful.

#20184 puxanando

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:09

What needs to improve is his luck.


THIS is something which need ALL the drivers! LUCK is a word too much used in relation with the Schumi-comeback.....I think!

#20185 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:10

It's not really a rehash, it was quite clear in the press conference live yesterday that Brawn meant team, including Schumacher that need to up their game. So the headline "Michael Schumacher must improve for Mercedes" is fine.


I do not agree. Bensons line suggest that Mercedes told him to up his game, while you rightly say the overal mesaage was the team as a whole performed badly, with the slight notion that Merc has let Shumi down in 3 out of 5, and Shumi has let Merc down in 1 out of 5. If one guy oughta say someone needs to improve, its shumi telling Merc.


Okay, probably should be worded a bit differently, but it's not disgraceful. As a Schumacher fan, I'd like to see him improve as well to be honest. 2 points after 5 races was not really what I wanted to see.


I hear you, but if Merc didnt f*** up China, this would be 20 points vs 41 for Rosberg.

Anyway, I expect him to do well here, and the next race at Canada.

#20186 TheBunk

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:21

Language is (considering regularity, possibly therefore deliberately) skewed, and misleading. I much very doubt it would be the same headline if this would concern Hamilton, thus I too consider it shameful and disgraceful.


Touche. This Andrew Benson has double standards. It is tasteless and unfair. In the meantime if Schumacher wasnt driving in F1, he probably had nothing to write about, since his object of affection hasnt won a race in a while either.

Schumacher is a legend, with more wins than the entire grid combined, and should get some respect for that, even if it was only for giving something to write about for longer than Bensons career in F1.

Schumacher doesnt need the pussy footing hamilton got/gets after yet another howler, but twisting reality and press conferences about Schumacher on each and every moment to write tabloid headlines is disgusting journalism and BBC unworthy.

Edited by TheBunk, 25 May 2012 - 21:22.


#20187 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 21:47

Touche. This Andrew Benson has double standards. It is tasteless and unfair. In the meantime if Schumacher wasnt driving in F1, he probably had nothing to write about, since his object of affection hasnt won a race in a while either.

Schumacher is a legend, with more wins than the entire grid combined, and should get some respect for that, even if it was only for giving something to write about for longer than Bensons career in F1.

Schumacher doesnt need the pussy footing hamilton got/gets after yet another howler, but twisting reality and press conferences about Schumacher on each and every moment to write tabloid headlines is disgusting journalism and BBC unworthy.


I couldn't agree more.

I read the article myself and also read all the articles containing the interviews he quoted from IN FULL, with all the CONTEXT preserved.

He has very conveniently twisted words. We see all the time, words being twisted and played in headlines to catch the attention of readers. You then read and realise that it wasn't as the headlines implied. Benson carries it a step further in that he does in his article, the very same thing he does with his headlines. It's amazing really. I read autosport.com mainly and not much BBC. However, this fellow is really unprofessional in his biased views and positions. I would have thought that there's a professional responsibility in this regard when it comes to journalism.

#20188 Coops3

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:01

I read that article earlier and thought at the time the headline was misleading as well. He's used similar misleading headlines relating to other drivers in the past as well though, I doubt he's got anything against Schumacher. Hell, he might not even come up with the headlines.

#20189 Jejking

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:12

I read that article earlier and thought at the time the headline was misleading as well. He's used similar misleading headlines relating to other drivers in the past as well though, I doubt he's got anything against Schumacher. Hell, he might not even come up with the headlines.

Every writer provides his own titles. So unless a major screw-up has been working in the editing department and doing a marvelously bad meaning-twisting job for the last couple of years, I suspect it IS the guy himself responsible for it.

#20190 Juan Kerr

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:13

I think everyone must agree that Andrew Benson is definitely not up to standard regarding the BBC. Also never mind the poorly informed judgement on things when has he ever written anything that any idiot sat in their armchair couldn't have thought up ?

Regarding Michael Schumacher, he's looked as quick as the car is capable of at the very least. How low must be your IQ be if you think Schumacher's performance level is based on tripping over a car braking very early whilst changing their line suddenly, a gearbox failure, a wheel failure and a grid penalty that left his race ruined ?

There really is some stupid people in this world.

#20191 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:35

Looks like this! Don't believe in podium or victory of Schumi anymore!

I think it wasn't good idea to come back in F1 for him! Now there will be a very different memory....he will has lost much!!

Bit in bold is true.
Bit in italics isn't, he's lost nothing reputationwise, nobody in their right mind will say that the failed comeback shows he wasn't as good as his seven world championships make out, the fact that at 43 (nearly ten years after winning his world championships) he is able to be pretty competitive against the "young guns" of F1 shows that surely he was something incredibly special in his prime.

#20192 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:45

THIS is something which need ALL the drivers! LUCK is a word too much used in relation with the Schumi-comeback.....I think!

No drivers do not rely on luck per se but it is essential not to be unlucky. Michael has been unlucky but does not need luck, he needs not to be unlucky, there is a distinction.

#20193 aditya-now

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:48

I am making my way to Frankfurt (from Toronto). You can tell me then all about Monaco. :D


Oh, nice - I am making my way to Salzburg from The Hague - we are in the same (transit) boat
as usual. Hope to catch the GP on Sunday though....

 ;)


#20194 aditya-now

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:51

Not really, I'd like him to improve but he doesn't need to....

Oh and I don't appreciate being called delusional. :p


I also don't think that Michael needs to improve. A perennial champion like him is far beyond needing to improve.


#20195 aditya-now

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 22:58

No drivers do not rely on luck per se but it is essential not to be unlucky. Michael has been unlucky but does not need luck, he needs not to be unlucky, there is a distinction.


In a way Michael has always been very lucky in his first career and very unlucky in his second career. Karma is a bitch.


#20196 Schumacher7

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 23:06

In a way Michael has always been very lucky in his first career and very unlucky in his second career. Karma is a bitch.

Was he lucky though, or was he simply not unlucky, I'd say rock solid reliability is down mostly to a lot of hard work and also not being unlucky, luck I'd class as being in second place with the leader crashing out giving you the win, I can't think of any times off the top of my head although I'm sure there are a couple, (was it Raikonnen or Hakkinen that broke down on the last lap of a race? Did Schumacher win that one?). But then luck's a strange concept because you can argue that he was lucky to not be unlucky when obviously chance played no part in him not being unlucky. There's no chance involved in anything really, you can not know things therefore giving the illusion of many possible outcomes but ultimately there can only ever be one outcome to an identical sequence of events.

#20197 Coops3

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 23:20

Was he lucky though, or was he simply not unlucky, I'd say rock solid reliability is down mostly to a lot of hard work and also not being unlucky, luck I'd class as being in second place with the leader crashing out giving you the win, I can't think of any times off the top of my head although I'm sure there are a couple, (was it Raikonnen or Hakkinen that broke down on the last lap of a race? Did Schumacher win that one?). But then luck's a strange concept because you can argue that he was lucky to not be unlucky when obviously chance played no part in him not being unlucky. There's no chance involved in anything really, you can not know things therefore giving the illusion of many possible outcomes but ultimately there can only ever be one outcome to an identical sequence of events.


A quantum physicist would disagree with you.

/leftfield! :drunk:

My serious point would be: Basically it sounds like you're saying there's no such thing as luck. I'm not sure I agree with that - some things simply can't be predicted.

#20198 ali_M

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 23:48

Was he lucky though, or was he simply not unlucky, I'd say rock solid reliability is down mostly to a lot of hard work and also not being unlucky, luck I'd class as being in second place with the leader crashing out giving you the win, I can't think of any times off the top of my head although I'm sure there are a couple, (was it Raikonnen or Hakkinen that broke down on the last lap of a race? Did Schumacher win that one?). But then luck's a strange concept because you can argue that he was lucky to not be unlucky when obviously chance played no part in him not being unlucky. There's no chance involved in anything really, you can not know things therefore giving the illusion of many possible outcomes but ultimately there can only ever be one outcome to an identical sequence of events.


Huh? :stoned:

#20199 IceSkyrim

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:06

I think it wasn't good idea to come back in F1 for him! Now there will be a very different memory....he will has lost much!!

It wasn't a good idea to come back while Alonso is still there, right  ;)

And it just got even worse when Kimi came back with his stellar race pace :love:

Indeed, the amount of money Schumacher just lost in the perpetuity of future incomes by diluting his stats with bad results and the inability to succed in different racing regulations is impossible to calculate. :eek:

I mean, just look at the other Michael, the Jordan one. Even after decades retired - with fails in later comebacks - Jordan is one of the guys that makes more money, year after year... peat, peat, peat...

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#20200 exmayol

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:25

It wasn't a good idea to come back while Alonso is still there, right  ;)

And it just got even worse when Kimi came back with his stellar race pace :love:

Indeed, the amount of money Schumacher just lost in the perpetuity of future incomes by diluting his stats with bad results and the inability to succed in different racing regulations is impossible to calculate. :eek:

I mean, just look at the other Michael, the Jordan one. Even after decades retired - with fails in later comebacks - Jordan is one of the guys that makes more money, year after year... peat, peat, peat...


I dont think MS is concerned about making more money. He is 43, he does what he is passionate about, has a place in an extremely competetive sport on merit, etc... what's not to be content about?

While M. Jordan is probably an extremely successful man too he has chosen one path while MS has chosen another. You can't earn all the money anyway...