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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#20201 sensible

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:33

At least one fellow driver agrees with MSC...what's up with the others?

Well trouble is he has the "english" stewards against him.
Did anyone see Derrick (who) warwick on sky?
His considered opinion was 100% biassed anti schumi - and he is a fkin steward.
Now in this incident - I truly think you could see it either way. You could make a pretty good case to say it was senna's fault or say it was schumi's fault. But to see it in such a one sided way as warwank shows such bias that it amazes me he can be a steward. He even went as far as to claim that senna was "trying to get out of schumachers way" by moving to the INSIDE. The crash may have been michaels fault but there is no way you move to the inside line to let some one by!!!

With this sort of idiot as a steward, no wonder michael gets penalised!

Edited by sensible, 26 May 2012 - 00:34.


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#20202 Longtimefan

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:41

Well trouble is he has the "english" stewards against him.
Did anyone see Derrick (who) warwick on sky?
His considered opinion was 100% biassed anti schumi - and he is a fkin steward.
Now in this incident - I truly think you could see it either way. You could make a pretty good case to say it was senna's fault or say it was schumi's fault. But to see it in such a one sided way as warwank shows such bias that it amazes me he can be a steward. He even went as far as to claim that senna was "trying to get out of schumachers way" by moving to the INSIDE. The crash may have been michaels fault but there is no way you move to the inside line to let some one by!!!

With this sort of idiot as a steward, no wonder michael gets penalised!


Well said, I agree 100%

#20203 sensible

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:46

To all the antis - some facts:
From 1994-2004 Michael Schumacher won 7 out of a possible 11 championships. Of the other 4, in one he was injured for a approximately one third of the season and was thereore unable to win it, in two others he lost the wdc by 1 race (ie if that 1 race had gone the other way he would have been wdc) and in the other he was 3rd in the 3rd best car.
If you can show me one - just one - driver who even comes close to that kind of record over that many years then I may bother to even enter a debate that that person was the best F1 driver ever. Until then, get back in your hole. F1 is about winning!
The reason that before michael and after michael there were many "great" drivers competing for championships is that michael was a literally exceptional driver whereas the others wre just among a small elite in their respective generations. So Andrew Benson and others of your ilk, a FACT based answer would be illuminating.


#20204 Muz Bee

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:46

So much angst over a B Grade journalist's slanted headline and manipulation of Brawn's comment. I would think Ross would be giving, at the least, a pass mark to Michael for 2012. Easily more convincing than the previous 2 seasons, he has shown some flashes of top level of driving, perhaps brilliant would be an overstatement. I am in two minds about Rosberg, who really didn't get the job done in the first 2 weekends and his reputation as a rock solid over-qualifier took a hit with costly errors we hadn't seen of late. Of course Shanghai causes one to draw breath and wonder if he has recaptured the form he had seemed to have lost or whether it is just Michael doing a much better job. Too early to say IMHO.

#20205 IceSkyrim

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:48

Well trouble is he has the "english" stewards against him.
Did anyone see Derrick (who) warwick on sky?

The man was feared by Senna.  ;)

#20206 sensible

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 00:52

The man was feared by Senna. ;)

why - was he a steward when senna raced as well?;)

#20207 IceSkyrim

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 01:19

why - was he a steward when senna raced as well?;)

Do you know the Lotus story ? :wave:

#20208 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 03:46

I wonder if Benson gets paid by the word? Because he seems to repeat the same sh*te over and over again. Just think of all the money he must have made using Schumacher's name.

#20209 man

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 04:59

Delboy never liked Schumacher and it dates back to their sportscar days. I seem to recall Derek physically roughing up the young German in te paddock after some dodgy on track antics.

I agree - Andrew Benson is a bit of a numpty when it comes to journalism. However, Schumachers driving has been of a poor standard an at times reckless and dangerous.

#20210 baddog

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 05:42

I agree - Andrew Benson is a bit of a numpty when it comes to journalism. However, Schumachers driving has been of a poor standard an at times reckless and dangerous.

This year??

#20211 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:26

And it just got even worse when Kimi came back with his stellar race pace :love:

Why MS don't have stellar race pace? :confused: Maybe because his car/tyre combination is one second slower that Kimi's in last two races? We saw Kimi stellar pace in China. 7-8 positions lost in one lap, MS with his not stellar race pace didn't mange such disgrace. Stellar race pace comes from the car/tyre combo, not from the driver.

Edited by ivand911, 26 May 2012 - 07:29.


#20212 glorius&victorius

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:36

Why MS don't have stellar race pace? :confused: Maybe because his car/tyre combination is one second slower that Kimi's in last two races? We saw Kimi stellar pace in China. 7-8 positions lost in one lap, MS with his not stellar race pace didn't mange such disgrace. Stellar race pace comes from the car/tyre combo, not from the driver.


thanks for clarifying that the 6 wdc's were from superior machinery.
and the 1st was of course for graciously punting another driver of the track.

#20213 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 07:42

thanks for clarifying that the 6 wdc's were from superior machinery.
and the 1st was of course for graciously punting another driver of the track.

If you think that, OK, I don't have problem with that. Yes, all years he have car 1 sec faster than the rest. Maybe there is data that can prove that?


#20214 ali.unal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 08:02

thanks for clarifying that the 6 wdc's were from superior machinery.
and the 1st was of course for graciously punting another driver of the track.

That, I call irony (together with your avatar).

Posted Image

Edited by ali.unal, 26 May 2012 - 08:03.


#20215 IceSkyrim

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:22

thanks for clarifying that the 6 wdc's were from superior machinery.
and the 1st was of course for graciously punting another driver of the track.

:eek: Wooo-ho... MS fans cornered in their own thread :p

#20216 Schumacher7

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:31

A quantum physicist would disagree with you.

/leftfield! :drunk:

My serious point would be: Basically it sounds like you're saying there's no such thing as luck. I'm not sure I agree with that - some things simply can't be predicted.

No, I'm saying there's no such thing as chance. I think luck can be defined instead as something that works in your favour when you have no direct input in it or lack the knowledge to be able to calculate the outcome and this obviously is something that does happen.
And it is physics that guarantees if something happens identically each time there can be no deviation in the result, something would have to change for there to be a different outcome, and the idea that the universe splits after every decision is probably bullshit. That part of quantum physics is all theory with little evidence behind it.

Edit: And I've gone very off topic sorry. :L

Edited by Schumacher7, 26 May 2012 - 10:49.


#20217 spacekid

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:31

This is supposed to be a place to talk about motorsport, and in this thread how Schumi is getting along, not a place to 'corner' fans or have some sort of fan bash. It is incredibly tiring and makes it so hard for actual fans of the sport to use and enjoy the forum.

IceSkyrim and G&V, what are you trying to prove with this? Why do you have to keep littering the thread with this nonsense?

Anyway, not a promising set of practise sessions for Schumi in Monaco, but then the times look to be all over the place. I reckon he'll be starting the race from 15th. Its going to be a long afternoon tomorrow...


#20218 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:32

:eek: Wooo-ho... MS fans cornered in their own thread :p

Wooo-ho, No. It backfire as you can see. :wave: But, still keep trying.

#20219 Atonal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:47

Schumacher might be trying for a single stop tomorrow given that he will most likely be somewhere from 10-15 on the grid. That might explain somewhat his long stints on the soft tyre. Anyways tough qualifying and race tomorrow, another gloomy weekend as a Schuamcher fan. I do wish to be surprised though :)

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#20220 zelpre

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:48

Schumacher might be trying for a single stop tomorrow given that he will most likely be somewhere from 10-15 on the grid. That might explain somewhat his long stints on the soft tyre. Anyways tough qualifying and race tomorrow, another gloomy weekend as a Schuamcher fan. I do wish to be surprised though :)


Impossible.

#20221 spacekid

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:48

No, I'm saying there's no such thing as chance. I think luck can be defined instead as something that works in your favour when you have no direct input in it or lack the knowledge to be able to calculate the outcome and this obviously is something that does happen.
And it is physics that guarantees if something happens identically each time there can be no deviation in the result, something would have to change for there to be a different outcome, and the idea that the universe splits after every decision is probably bullshit. That part of quantum physics is all theory with no evidence behind it.


This is really interesting on all sorts of levels. Lets consider the manufacture of an engine - it isn't luck or chance that defines how many miles the engine will last, there are tiny inaccuracies in the construction that will eventually lead to failures and overstressed parts. However, I think there is an element of randomness in where these innacuracies of faults are, and a further element of randomness in which driver gets an engine which just happens to be more likely to go bang first.

To put it another way, russian roulette isn't random. If you know all the factors involved you know where the barrel will stop when you spin it. But no one can reasonably actually calculate that, so it ends up as luck.

Regards the true nature of the universe - who knows? Maybe humans will never find out. It doesn't really matter, all quantum theory does is give us a frame work to describe what we observe and make predictions. The theory works well enough, whether or not it is actually describing what is happening doesn't matter to me.

#20222 Pizdek

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:49

Schumacher might be trying for a single stop tomorrow given that he will most likely be somewhere from 10-15 on the grid. That might explain somewhat his long stints on the soft tyre. Anyways tough qualifying and race tomorrow, another gloomy weekend as a Schuamcher fan. I do wish to be surprised though :)


It would be better gone fishing. :lol:


#20223 ali.unal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:52

Impossible.

Not that impossible. Soft tyres will last 50 odd laps. So, if he can manage to last quali-supersofts for 15-16 laps, he can go the end with softs for ~60 laps. Long shot, but worth tyring.

#20224 race addicted

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:54

Impossible.


A one-stopper is absolutely do-able. Vettel did it last year, but with the race stopped that turned into a two-"stopper".
I think the best Schumacher can hope for, is lining up on the sixth row, but as I've written earlier; from there he can actually have a very, very good race one-stopping.

Edited by race addicted, 26 May 2012 - 10:55.


#20225 ali.unal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 10:59

Schumacher's SS try not that slow compared to Rosberg. Here is Rosberg's SS run:

12 1:23.087
13 1:15.751
14 1:26.318
15 1:15.159
16 1:26.958
17 1:15.614

He did alternate his flying laps by putting a slow lap each and every one of them. He did do his fast lap on his second attempt. We also heard him saying it's strange that on his second run rear tyres were better. Here is Schumacher's SS run:

22 1:31.179
23 1:15.893

He didn't get a lap in for his second try. So, in the first attempt, they are evenly matched although we should expect Schumacher's lap to be a tad faster as the track was rubbered in, but still. It's not 0,7s difference like the timing page suggested. It's more close. I stlil believe Rosberg has the upperhand, but Schumi is no slouch as some would make us believe.

Edited by ali.unal, 26 May 2012 - 11:00.


#20226 Jejking

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:01

Not that impossible. Soft tyres will last 50 odd laps. So, if he can manage to last quali-supersofts for 15-16 laps, he can go the end with softs for ~60 laps. Long shot, but worth tyring.

Without falling off a cliff? I don't think so, not with these supersofts, last year it was possible but I suspect that in 12 it will be a problem.

#20227 Atonal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:16

Schumacher's SS try not that slow compared to Rosberg. Here is Rosberg's SS run:

12 1:23.087
13 1:15.751
14 1:26.318
15 1:15.159
16 1:26.958
17 1:15.614

He did alternate his flying laps by putting a slow lap each and every one of them. He did do his fast lap on his second attempt. We also heard him saying it's strange that on his second run rear tyres were better. Here is Schumacher's SS run:

22 1:31.179
23 1:15.893

He didn't get a lap in for his second try. So, in the first attempt, they are evenly matched although we should expect Schumacher's lap to be a tad faster as the track was rubbered in, but still. It's not 0,7s difference like the timing page suggested. It's more close. I stlil believe Rosberg has the upperhand, but Schumi is no slouch as some would make us believe.


As I expected, almost all drivers started to hit their top times after the first flyer. Some even got it on their third run. I don't believe Michael will be very far off Nico here, maybe a couple of tenths at most if both get a clean run. One can never discount the traffic variable in Monaco and we don't know what exactly were the obstacles for both the Merc drivers in practice if there were any that is. I remember in 2010 both Michael and Nico went out almost together and both got bogged down by traffic in the form of each other.

Even though Nico has a slight reputation of being a free practice champion he always seems pretty handy in Monaco but he has never been able to stitch up the entire weekend. Maybe this is his year? What is the outlook on the weather as that might throw a spanner in how the Pirelli's work?

#20228 race addicted

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:18

Weather is unchanged. GP2's are racing now and it's roughly the same temps, up two degrees.

#20229 BRK

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:29

Tough weekend, even with DRS and the shitty tyres (or maybe because of the shitty tyres) overtaking is a going to be hard here. Hoping for a top 5 quali and some good points starting 10th or behind on the grid. I've mostly stopped watching Pirellimula but for Michael, plus Monaco's always a special weekend. :up:

#20230 race addicted

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:30

'cept there's no DRS here.

#20231 1Devil1

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:34

'cept there's no DRS here.


Again get your facts right :wave: After the start-finish line

#20232 race addicted

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:35

Didn't know. Just read "no DRS in the tunnel".
Apart from that, I'll obviously turn to you for factual info. Void of blinkered fanboy-ism.

Edited by race addicted, 26 May 2012 - 11:36.


#20233 BRK

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:35

'cept there's no DRS here.


Only in the tunnel. The regular DRS zone is on the main 'straight', like last year.

#20234 aditya-now

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:36

Why MS don't have stellar race pace? :confused: Maybe because his car/tyre combination is one second slower that Kimi's in last two races? We saw Kimi stellar pace in China. 7-8 positions lost in one lap, MS with his not stellar race pace didn't mange such disgrace. Stellar race pace comes from the car/tyre combo, not from the driver.


Why MS lost again 7 tenths to Nico in 3rd practice? :confused: Does he not know that he will have another 5 place grid penalty going against him? He should make this up by qualifying faster!



#20235 zelpre

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:37

Not that impossible. Soft tyres will last 50 odd laps. So, if he can manage to last quali-supersofts for 15-16 laps, he can go the end with softs for ~60 laps. Long shot, but worth tyring.


What? 50 laps? I think you are still in 2010.

#20236 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:39

Why MS lost again 7 tenths to Nico in 3rd practice? :confused: Does he not know that he will have another 5 place grid penalty going against him? He should make this up by qualifying faster!

Are you seriously asking me about any time difference in FP3? In Monaco.


#20237 aditya-now

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:43

thanks for clarifying that the 6 wdc's were from superior machinery.
and the 1st was of course for graciously punting another driver of the track.


I think three drivers hold this distinction:

1.) Alain Prost (1989)
2.) Ayrton Senna (1990)
3.) Michael Schumacher (1994)

Michael of course tried one more time (1997) but did not succeed. Thereafter this
form of becoming WDC by punting the competitor off disappeared again from the
sport, and I am grateful as it is not what makes the sport.

Interestingly, Senna and Schumacher are the two who always get accused for it,
while the originator of that art form, Alain Prost, gets away lightly.

Concerning this weekend (2012):

nice that Michael is still there and that Alain is back for the weekend, only Ayrton
is missing from the party - in an age of the Maldonados, Grosjeans and Perez'.


#20238 ali.unal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:44

What? 50 laps? I think you are still in 2010.

Last year Vettel did 56 laps on soft tyres, which are more-or-less identical to these years. Granted, their working rage is somewhat different, but as I said it's worth trying though (as I also said) it is a long shot.

#20239 Atonal

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 11:57

Aditya asks a valid question...why was Michael not trying to tweak the car for qualifying knowing full well that a penalty is in store and passing even with the DRS is fraught with uncertainties in Monaco? I think he should have spent more time on the super softs rather than working with the prime tyre in order to be best prepared come Q3 so that even after the penalty he would not fall out of the top 10. I don't know but looking from the outside Merc's strategy always seems suspect to a layman like me. I'm pretty sure that they have looked at it from all the angles and have sufficient data to make the right decision, after all Brawn is a smart man but as a viewer I just don't feel convinced. Come race day I won't be surprised if Michael and Nico run the same strategy even though one might be in the top 3 and the other out of the top 10. But what do I know, Michael and the team may have run the calculations and running a lengthy stint and doing the absolute minimum of stops may be the best outcome?

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#20240 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:01

Aditya asks a valid question...why was Michael not trying to tweak the car for qualifying knowing full well that a penalty is in store and passing even with the DRS is fraught with uncertainties in Monaco? I think he should have spent more time on the super softs rather than working with the prime tyre in order to be best prepared come Q3 so that even after the penalty he would not fall out of the top 10. I don't know but looking from the outside Merc's strategy always seems suspect to a layman like me. I'm pretty sure that they have looked at it from all the angles and have sufficient data to make the right decision, after all Brawn is a smart man but as a viewer I just don't feel convinced. Come race day I won't be surprised if Michael and Nico run the same strategy even though one might be in the top 3 and the other out of the top 10. But what do I know, Michael and the team may have run the calculations and running a lengthy stint and doing the absolute minimum of stops may be the best outcome?

You should ask the same question about Kimi too? Not many time on SS. I am not worried about that , they can use other driver data to see how SS is holding. Or you are not right and he have different race strategy for the race than Nico.

Edited by ivand911, 26 May 2012 - 12:02.


#20241 ivand911

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 12:11

If MS didn't lift in last sector(2sec) , he couldn't need to go out in Q1 any more. Probably.

He could save that SS in Q2 too.

Edited by ivand911, 26 May 2012 - 12:55.


#20242 Diablobb81

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:08

YES YES YES

#20243 le chat noir

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:08

Yeah!

#20244 Lelouch

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:08

I LOVE YOU MY KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#20245 le chat noir

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

Shut up coulthard

#20246 libano

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

boom!

#20247 Augurk

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

Michael!! Wow!

#20248 Disgrace

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

Ah, what a shame of all weekends for Michael to hit top form.

#20249 Scotracer

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

I'm smiling like a moron.

#20250 Umpire

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 13:09

OH YES!