Jump to content


Photo

Michael Schumacher (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
20789 replies to this topic

#20601 Schumacher7

Schumacher7
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:19

Video footage suggests otherwise.

And no, Schuey did not have "great pace". Yes, he was held up by Raikkonen. No, he wouldn't have caught or kept up with Rosberg if that hadn't happened.

Another race to forget. At least Massa did well.

Yes he did, and no he wouldn't have caught Rosberg if not held up because Rosberg was several cars in front and it would have been nearly impossible for Schumacher to get past Massa let alone pass all the cars between himself and Rosberg.

Advertisement

#20602 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,648 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:20

Wonder if the BBC is now man enough to run an article heading: Schumacher demands Mercedes improvement.;)


Bunk, seriously, have you ever seen or heard MS make a negative comment on his team, or any of its members, or publicly demand anything?

#20603 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:20

He can try, but if the other car is alongside they have no obligation to move out of the way and any resulting impact is the responsibility of the guy making the move


No. If the other guy has room left to react and still go full throttle he´s just being a moron and causing an unnecesary incident. Schumacher showed the way to do it in Monaco 2004 start.

According to what you say, if Alonso hadn´t responded to Maldonado´s defense on Spain into turn 1 and had gone straight, the contact would be Maldonado´s fault, which is ridiculous. Maldonado was in front, and he was entitled to squeeze Alonso without pushing him off the track.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 27 May 2012 - 18:27.


#20604 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:33

As i have said in earlier posts. As daft as some of you may think it sounds. Someone at Mercedes does not want Michael there. There has been far to many gremlins on Schumacher's side of the garage.
To be honest i think its getting obvious the team want Di Resta there.

To me Mercedes and Schumacher do not fit.

#20605 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,233 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:38

No. If the other guy has room left to react and still go full throttle he´s just being a moron and causing an unnecesary incident. Schumacher showed the way to do it in Monaco 2004 start.

According to what you say, if Alonso hadn´t responded to Maldonado´s defense on Spain into turn 1 and had gone straight, the contact would be Maldonado´s fault, which is ridiculous. Maldonado was in front, and he was entitled to squeeze Alonso without pushing him off the track.


Disagree. The incident is down to the one making the move, they have to make sure they are clear before trying to occupy a piece of road already occupied by another car.

#20606 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:44

Disagree. The incident is down to the one making the move, they have to make sure they are clear before trying to occupy a piece of road already occupied by another car.


Well you´re entitled to your opinion on how racing etiquette should be, but I´m afraid that watching F1 racing shows that it´s working the other way around: it´s accepted that the guy with the nose in front pushes the guy behind wide providing he leaves room for him to stay full throttle and doesn´t push him off the track.

#20607 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:44

Schumacher wouldv likely ended behind Massa, so that would be a good result, too.

He was 20 seconds behind P1 at lap 25, and 44 seconds behind at lap 37 because of Raikonen.

When his fuel problem occured that difference was down to less than 20 seconds again, due to great pace and excellent control. Anyone saying Schumacher had a bad race didnt pay attention.


More like anyone who is saying he had a bad race wanted him to have one. I had the live laptimes up and once he was free off Kimi he was lapping on the leaders pace. He would of finished in 7th (higher if you could pass on this track) if not for Mercedes.

#20608 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,233 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 May 2012 - 18:58

Well you´re entitled to your opinion on how racing etiquette should be, but I´m afraid that watching F1 racing shows that it´s working the other way around: it´s accepted that the guy with the nose in front pushes the guy behind wide providing he leaves room for him to stay full throttle and doesn´t push him off the track.


But it's OK to push him into another car then?

#20609 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:03

Video footage suggests otherwise.

And no, Schuey did not have "great pace". Yes, he was held up by Raikkonen. No, he wouldn't have caught or kept up with Rosberg if that hadn't happened.

And ,yes his pace was very good:
http://en.mclarenf-1.....=Nico Rosberg
From 1:23.9 to 1:19.2 is big improvement after Kimi pit. The problem is he catch Lewis 3 laps after and he slow him down ,so he pit. After that his pace was similar to Rosberg/frontrunners. Fastest lap from both.

Edited by ivand911, 27 May 2012 - 19:32.


#20610 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,136 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:03

But it's OK to push him into another car then?


There was enough room between ALO and MSC to stay in full throttle. Without contact, and Gro getting scooped left, he could have stayed on it.

This thing RSC did here is "pushing into another car".

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Edited by Skinnyguy, 27 May 2012 - 19:04.


#20611 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:07

But it's OK to push him into another car then?

As you know, you have to leave space all the time. RG didn't leave, he binned MS in the barrier.


#20612 zelpre

zelpre
  • Member

  • 275 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:28

They said that Michael and Grosjean accident will be investigated after the race.

There was no confirmation that there was no further action? Grosjean that bastard should be penalised.

#20613 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,777 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:37

Grosjean that bastard should be penalised.


No he shouldn't. It was a start line incident. Grosjean had nowhere to go after getting punted by Alonso.

#20614 ryan86

ryan86
  • Member

  • 1,100 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:42

I thought it was just one of these things that happens (as incidentally I thought Schumacher vs Senna was), but history has shown that I appear to be very lenient or accepting when it comes to contact. However, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but there's probably quite a possibility that hitting Senna 2 weeks ago stopped today with the fuel problems turning into one of those real "feel-bad" stories in that Schumi has lost 7th because of the problems. Had he not hit Senna then it's possible that the car may have broke down in the lead today.

#20615 zelpre

zelpre
  • Member

  • 275 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:46

No he shouldn't. It was a start line incident. Grosjean had nowhere to go after getting punted by Alonso.


He moved to the left too aggresivelly. He has mirrors he saw Michael on the left. What a rokiee he is, hes proving that every race.

#20616 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:48

No he shouldn't. It was a start line incident. Grosjean had nowhere to go after getting punted by Alonso.


He should see what will happen. He should see alonso's line and Hamilton...

#20617 steveninthematrix

steveninthematrix
  • Member

  • 329 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:48

once again my conspiracy theory on michael's comeback remains... his car broke..

he has yet in the last 10 races to have a mechanically trouble-free weekend; drs, kers, engine, wheel change, gearbox, free practice problems ... it just keeps going on and on

#20618 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:49

I thought it was just one of these things that happens (as incidentally I thought Schumacher vs Senna was), but history has shown that I appear to be very lenient or accepting when it comes to contact. However, I don't know if it's been mentioned, but there's probably quite a possibility that hitting Senna 2 weeks ago stopped today with the fuel problems turning into one of those real "feel-bad" stories in that Schumi has lost 7th because of the problems. Had he not hit Senna then it's possible that the car may have broke down in the lead today.

This cars are rebuild from scratch you know and maybe what was left from Barcelona is the chassis only. And this problem was engine problem, maybe it was new engine. But, I doubt they work on the engines on the weekends, they just take them out and mount them.

No he shouldn't. It was a start line incident. Grosjean had nowhere to go after getting punted by Alonso.

Why the hell he was over Alonso, his way ahead was free? Even at the start there is avoidable incidents. Not to bounce from car to car. Or because Alonso was passing him he have to hit him?

Edited by ivand911, 27 May 2012 - 19:52.


#20619 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:52

What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...

Advertisement

#20620 Schumacher7

Schumacher7
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:52

"I THINK YOU HAVE TO LEAVE A SPACE, ALL OF THE TIME YOU HAVE TO LEAVE A SPACE!"

#20621 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:57

What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...

I don't think anyone at Mercedes want DiResta? Why they will want him? I think that Nico get everything good and MS get the bad parts. When there is risk, let give it to MS.


#20622 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:58


What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...


lol I just posted the exact same thing earlier up the page. I know what side i am leaning towards.

#20623 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,648 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 19:58

No he shouldn't. It was a start line incident. Grosjean had nowhere to go after getting punted by Alonso.


Well, it was, there is no question about that. He created the situation though. It was an inexperienced, dumb start, and a tad overambitious. He doesn't seem to be a multi-tasker. He bit more than he could swallow, and got punished.

#20624 zelpre

zelpre
  • Member

  • 275 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:00

What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...


Lets share the link then...

#20625 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:01

I don't think anyone at Mercedes want DiResta? Why they will want him? I think that Nico get everything good and MS get the bad parts. When there is risk, let give it to MS.


People from Mecedes have been saying his name alot after Spain. This is were this story has come from.

#20626 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,233 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:03

What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...


Well it must all be true then if you read it in some foruns. :rotfl:

#20627 sniper80

sniper80
  • Member

  • 519 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:04

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.

#20628 Mestrades

Mestrades
  • Member

  • 92 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:05

GROSJEAN must be penalized. He moved on left without seeing his left side! This guy is handless and need a 5 grid position penalty to calm him

#20629 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:06

I don't think anyone at Mercedes want DiResta? Why they will want him? I think that Nico get everything good and MS get the bad parts. When there is risk, let give it to MS.



Nick Fry? He said that this week.


http://www.motorspor...nel-c44660.html
(in hungarian)


#20630 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:06

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.


:up: true!


#20631 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,648 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:07

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.


Seriously, apart from intending to stick the knife in the soft parts, how have you come to that conclusion?


#20632 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:09

People from Mecedes have been saying his name alot after Spain. This is were this story has come from.



I mean lot's of people feel this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

#20633 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,476 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:10

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.


Name them.

#20634 exmayol

exmayol
  • Member

  • 552 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:10

Perhaps MS and Merc want to set another record: longest sting without troublefree race.

#20635 zelpre

zelpre
  • Member

  • 275 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:10

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.


Yeah DiResta could have fix the gearbox problem and kept running in 3rd and won a podium, he could avoid Grosjean, he would go out of his car and put the wheel in properly, he could fix the DRS in the middle of the fast lap, he could avoid grosjean by driving on the wall and he would still survive and then he would fix the fuel pressure problems and got a podium.simple as that.

#20636 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,476 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:13

:up: true!


You too. Maybe you can add more to the discussion than your usual smiley and a one-liner.

#20637 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:14

Di Resta would have taken more points in the Mercedes than Schumacher in the past races.

You think? Where exactly? I know you are hurt today, but still you can be reasonable. What tragedy from Kimi today. Snail slow.

Edited by ivand911, 27 May 2012 - 20:17.


#20638 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,648 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:16

You too. Maybe you can add more to the discussion than your usual smiley and a one-liner.



c'mon. You really expect Li'L Jinx to punch above her weight.


#20639 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,644 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:20

What do you think about a possible sabotage? It seems some people from the Merc squad wants di Resta to the second Merc very. I read today in several forums that this unlucky series (machanical failures, pit stop errors, DRS problem in the Q1) maybe not a coincident...


They also gave him a car capable of P1. I don't care who you are, you need a solid car underneath you to achieve that.

The run of bad luck is unbelievable, but it will end.

Advertisement

#20640 exmayol

exmayol
  • Member

  • 552 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:31

The run of bad luck is unbelievable, but it will end.


**** yeah!


#20641 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,203 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:36

They also gave him a car capable of P1. I don't care who you are, you need a solid car underneath you to achieve that.

The run of bad luck is unbelievable, but it will end.


Capable the P1 in the qualy, but not capable to finish the race...

Edited by Tarzaan, 27 May 2012 - 20:36.


#20642 Muz Bee

Muz Bee
  • Member

  • 2,531 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:42

I can understand the fans' disappointment with Michael's best weekend since comeback ruined. However there's a saying "that's motor racing". Criticising Grosjean or the team or whatever doesn't change it. He was not going to win from P6 as the race unfolded. Yes, MS has had a fair wedge of bad luck, not all of it of his own making but nowhere near the luck some are claiming. The 5 place penalty was his own, not Senna's or (ridiculously) Derek Warwick's! Luck tends to go in cycles. MS can walk away satisfied he did a good job, sometimes your best drive gains no reward, indeed that's very often the case. He has now proven that in the right circumstance he does have the pace to be a contender to win. Before Saturday that wasn't at all obvious.

#20643 Schumacher7

Schumacher7
  • Member

  • 712 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:59

I'm kind of glad he was hit by Grosjean at the start, imagine how much more gutting it would be if he was high up when his car gave out.

#20644 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:59

I can understand the fans' disappointment with Michael's best weekend since comeback ruined. However there's a saying "that's motor racing". Criticising Grosjean or the team or whatever doesn't change it. He was not going to win from P6 as the race unfolded. Yes, MS has had a fair wedge of bad luck, not all of it of his own making but nowhere near the luck some are claiming. The 5 place penalty was his own, not Senna's or (ridiculously) Derek Warwick's! Luck tends to go in cycles. MS can walk away satisfied he did a good job, sometimes your best drive gains no reward, indeed that's very often the case. He has now proven that in the right circumstance he does have the pace to be a contender to win. Before Saturday that wasn't at all obvious.

You think so? Vettel the 10th guy needed only 4 sec to win it. Kimi train destroyed his chances.
MS have chance to be 4th-5th in first corner. After everyone pitted he have free track ahead, so he can do 5-6-7 fast laps. He was able to do 1:19.2 in lap 30. Webber was doing 1:21 with new tyres. So, there was chance for MS to jump them all. But, even podium was OK. MS probably needed 6-7 sec to jump them all. MS has 2 sec faster in and out lap. In Lap 31 he gain 1,5 sec; lap 32- 1,7 sec, lap 33 - 1,1 sec to Webber. Total 6,3 sec. 2-3 more fast laps and he was jumping everybody. Nico did well there , he made everyone to pit. The problem was that softs needed 5-6 laps to get up to temperature.

Edited by ivand911, 27 May 2012 - 21:16.


#20645 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,309 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:01

I can understand the fans' disappointment with Michael's best weekend since comeback ruined. However there's a saying "that's motor racing". Criticising Grosjean or the team or whatever doesn't change it. He was not going to win from P6 as the race unfolded. Yes, MS has had a fair wedge of bad luck, not all of it of his own making but nowhere near the luck some are claiming. The 5 place penalty was his own, not Senna's or (ridiculously) Derek Warwick's! Luck tends to go in cycles. MS can walk away satisfied he did a good job, sometimes your best drive gains no reward, indeed that's very often the case. He has now proven that in the right circumstance he does have the pace to be a contender to win. Before Saturday that wasn't at all obvious.


The team deserve to be criticized by MSC fans. They do very little for him in my opinion.

#20646 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 730 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:02

The penalty was ridiculous. Senna weaved left in the braking zone when Schumacher was coming like gangbusters.

The start of this race is another indication why inexperienced children shouldn't be driving Grand Prix cars. Instead of going forward a place or two, Michael was knocked backwards three, causing him to be stuck behind the Renault for half the race.

There ought to be a special rule for this venue. If you're holding up a pack the way Raikkonnen was and you fall ten seconds behind the car ahead of you, blue flag.


#20647 aliasj

aliasj
  • Member

  • 150 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:13

The penalty was ridiculous. Senna weaved left in the braking zone when Schumacher was coming like gangbusters.

The start of this race is another indication why inexperienced children shouldn't be driving Grand Prix cars. Instead of going forward a place or two, Michael was knocked backwards three, causing him to be stuck behind the Renault for half the race.


Well, Bruno Senna isn't inexperienced. He's just - m e d i o c r e.

#20648 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,607 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:16

There ought to be a special rule for this venue. If you're holding up a pack the way Raikkonnen was and you fall ten seconds behind the car ahead of you, blue flag.


As much I hated this situations. Raikkonen fought fair and square for his position and this is racing. formula one has enough artificial rules

#20649 schumimercamg

schumimercamg
  • Member

  • 315 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:34

Looking at the birds eye photo in the Grosjean thread I'm amazed that Schuey's front right survived that impact- it broke grosjeans rear suspension!

#20650 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:54

The penalty was ridiculous. Senna weaved left in the braking zone when Schumacher was coming like gangbusters.

The start of this race is another indication why inexperienced children shouldn't be driving Grand Prix cars. Instead of going forward a place or two, Michael was knocked backwards three, causing him to be stuck behind the Renault for half the race.

There ought to be a special rule for this venue. If you're holding up a pack the way Raikkonnen was and you fall ten seconds behind the car ahead of you, blue flag.

Looking at the birds eye photo in the Grosjean thread I'm amazed that Schuey's front right survived that impact- it broke grosjeans rear suspension!


I had the same thought. I thought Schumacher's right front held on very strongly. Good to know it's tough.

I think drivers like Grosjean at times need safety car starts rather then delay rain gps for safety reasons these days like the Canada 2011 episode.

Schumacher needs to go for pole like mad and run away, the more he does, the less chance of wrong fia senteances and bumping into grojean/bruno.

With Pasto winning a race, then getting taken off, shows how much chaos is in the field. Good thing Mercedes may be able to fight for poles more often. Kudos for Schumacher's Monaco efforts in the last 3 years, driving wise, he's been on it and with this year actually being the first year with a car able to fight for pole, he got it. Schumacher's lap in 2010 was impeded by mercedes miscalcaton in letting Rosberg out, they were pretty competitive enough in one of the few races that year, and he clearly outqualifed rosberg last year and this year..