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#20751 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:37

they're trading wheels, not paint ;)

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#20752 TheBunk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:57

Saw this on the Schumacher facebook page

"1. Australia - Gearbox failure -> 5th position at least possible = 10 points.
2. Malaysia - Grosjean spun -> by his pace 5th position again at least possible = 10 points
3. China - wheel nut failure -> 2nd place at least possible = 18 points
4. Bahrain - DRS failiure in qualifying -> his pace at the race was good enough for 5th place = 10 points
5. Spain - Senna crash - easily could end at 5th place = 10 points
6. Monaco - Fuel pressure - without penalty he would win the race = 25 points. From 6th place without Grosjean and car failure his pace and strategy was enough for a podium 3rd place = 15 points.

So he would by now have a total of 83 points or 73 points(depens how you think Monaco would pay out) and would have been leading the championship or 2nd place!"



Gawd, this makes it even more depressing. So we know he has the form, however after these first 6 races, does he still have the motivation given the utterly sh*te lack of reliability and blunders?


Thats a bit optimistic. But it all costed a good chunk of points, thats for sure. Nevertheless, 3 straight wins and hes back :)


Some would have us believe famine, global warming, world recession and the ebola virus are MS' fault.


:up: :lol:

#20753 BetaVersion

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:23

Schumacher is just reaping the fruits that he sow.

If Schumy haven't dived into Senna's back, and got punished, MS would start from pole and finish in the flag, first.

Instead, he got punished and had to start in the midle of the pack.

The new generation of drivers [Maldo, Groo, Perez, Kamui, Senna, etc] won't cut some slack to Schumacher.
Quite the oposite, daring to trade paint with Schumy must be some kind of rite of passage from a rookie to a mature F1 driver.


He wouldn't win even if started on pole, because the car broke again.

#20754 TheBunk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:32

daring to trade paint with Schumy must be some kind of rite of passage from a rookie to a mature F1 driver.


Yes, its not every day you can rub wheels with a guy that won more titles than all those guys combined probably will ever win.



#20755 IceSkyrim

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:38

Yes, its not every day you can rub wheels with a guy that won more titles than all those guys combined probably will ever win.

As long as you qualify poorly and stays within the reach of rookies :rolleyes:

#20756 TheBunk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:48

As long as you qualify poorly and stays within the reach of rookies :rolleyes:


Currently the qual stats are 3 - 3 with his qualifying specialist teammate Rosberg, so Michael Schumacher must be doing something right, being old, past it, and at 80% of his old speed and all.

#20757 F1Champion

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 17:06

It is depressing that he points tally isn't better, if it were and he was in the hunt, I think he would have been performing even better than he is now. Give him competition and a WDC race, and he'll thrive. Mercedes really ought to sort out their reliability. I'm not 100% sure the fuel pump at Monaco was not due to Grosjean but for Mercedes to admit that it would have happened anyway makes me think that it would have otherwise they could have used RG as an excuse.

#20758 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 17:07

As long as you qualify poorly and stays within the reach of rookies :rolleyes:


So i guess you didn't watch any quali this year.

#20759 ivand911

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:05

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#20760 Schumacher7

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:17

Before anyone says Schumacher was hardly alongside he was up in line with the front wheels before he braked when he saw Grosjean coming at him.

#20761 ali.unal

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 19:00

I'm really shocked to read Edd Straw's last column on Plus Autosport. He "blatantly" defends Schumacher and concludes that his comeback was not a failure. It's very very odd to hear that from Straw, but here it is:

At the age of 43, he's still a competitive grand prix driver capable of setting a pole position time at Monaco and perhaps even winning the race. That's a lot better than the majority will ever achieve at their peak.

His comeback has added a lot to F1 and even if he never gets another chance to win, which is very possible, he will always have that memory of what happened on that Saturday afternoon in Monte Carlo as a monument to the fact he can still, on his day, roll back the years. One performance doesn't make a second career, but he is far from the only middling driver on the grid who is capable of that kind of showing if everything comes right.

http://plus.autospor...-is-no-failure/

#20762 libano

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 19:32

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this just confirms that grosjean overreacted. he had plenty of space to the right, there was absolutely no reason for him to squash MSC into the wall like this. nerves, inexperience, whatever you want to call it. he's on a learning curve.

#20763 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 13:11

I'm really shocked to read Edd Straw's last column on Plus Autosport. He "blatantly" defends Schumacher and concludes that his comeback was not a failure. It's very very odd to hear that from Straw, but here it is:


http://plus.autospor...-is-no-failure/


What's wrong with that article?

Edd Straw is right - Michael's comeback was definitely no failure. MS showed time and again streaks of brilliance - the only difference between his first and his second career is that now Michael is not able to provide brilliance on a consistent basis.

And were he to start winning again - who knows? There is still fire in him, there is still life in the old lion.


#20764 Jovanotti

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 13:35

this just confirms that grosjean overreacted. he had plenty of space to the right, there was absolutely no reason for him to squash MSC into the wall like this. nerves, inexperience, whatever you want to call it. he's on a learning curve.

Discussed 1000 times before...watch an onboard, he was only there because he touched Alonso before...

Edited by Jovanotti, 31 May 2012 - 13:35.


#20765 ivand911

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 15:33

Where Gene work, will tell you everything? Is he Spanish too? Was the interview given to Spanish site?
I rest my case. It is BS. Who is Mark Gene? Go ask what Badoer think. Go ask what Massa think. I am sure that Gene revelation come very spontaneous at opening of Ferrari store in Madrid. :lol: :rotfl:
What this have to do with this thread? Is this troll effort? I don't see anyone putting it in Alonso thread? So ,why it is here?

This article is more interesting that Ferrari PR shit there:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100018

Edited by ivand911, 31 May 2012 - 15:57.


#20766 spacekid

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 17:36

I echo the sentiments regards Alonso - I think he's the most complete driver out there, and at both their peaks? Very, very close.

I think he makes fewer mistakes than Michael. I also think there's no way Michael would have sat behind Petrov in Abu-Dhabi. He would have either got past, or crashed trying. Thats the difference between the two drivers for me - sometimes Michaels approach works, sometimes it doesn't.

I favour the more 'direct' style of always going for it (and sometimes making a mistake), but its a personal thing.

#20767 ali.unal

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 17:42

What's wrong with that article?

Edd Straw is right - Michael's comeback was definitely no failure. MS showed time and again streaks of brilliance - the only difference between his first and his second career is that now Michael is not able to provide brilliance on a consistent basis.

And were he to start winning again - who knows? There is still fire in him, there is still life in the old lion.

There is nothing wrong at that article. I do share the points thereof, but I think you misunderstood me due to lack of context.

Edd Straw is not known as a Schumacher fan or -let's say- admirer for that matter. He also hasn't been very appriciative about the achievements of the man. Therefore, I was shocked to read those lines from Straw. It could have been from Noble, but not Straw (I would have thought). Apparantly I was wrong. That was a well-balanced drawn picture of what's been happening.

#20768 1Devil1

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 17:55

I think he makes fewer mistakes than Michael. I also think there's no way Michael would have sat behind Petrov in Abu-Dhabi. He would have either got past, or crashed trying. Thats the difference between the two drivers for me - sometimes Michaels approach works, sometimes it doesn't.


I believe you will never see a performance like Hungary 1998 from Alonso he would have collected a secure second place with the knowledge the championship race is not over like he nearly did in 2010. Four races before the end he told the press I am confident I only have to be on the podium the next races and my chance will come. Michael had always this all or nothing approach to win except he was leading the championship by miles. And this created one of his best race than he was a beast!

#20769 ClubmanGT

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 18:03

And despite all those mistakes in 2006, the moment Michael Schumacher lost the world title was when his Ferrari died at Suzuka.

#20770 Cr0aker

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 19:00

Schumacher waves to crowd

Laughed my ass off at this.

#20771 Schumacher7

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:02

Schumacher waves to crowd

Laughed my ass off at this.

I can't see it, is it the roman salute by any chance, made me chuckle as well? :rotfl:

#20772 Sakae

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:19

What's wrong with that article?

Edd Straw is right - Michael's comeback was definitely no failure. MS showed time and again streaks of brilliance - the only difference between his first and his second career is that now Michael is not able to provide brilliance on a consistent basis.

And were he to start winning again - who knows? There is still fire in him, there is still life in the old lion.

Hmm, some of us have never doubt him, and "knew" this all along, whereas some other people... :D

#20773 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 22:18

I can't see it, is it the roman salute by any chance, made me chuckle as well? :rotfl:


You can see that salute also in German history, app. 70 years back in time - a very unfortunate photograph IMHO.
Or executed just at the right moment by the photographer....


#20774 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 22:19

Hmm, some of us have never doubt him, and "knew" this all along, whereas some other people... :D


Different lanes for different brains, Sakae.  ;)


#20775 BRK

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:30

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.

#20776 Clatter

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:34

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.


What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.

#20777 Disgrace

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:38

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.


The very essence of a racing incident. :up:

#20778 exmayol

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:47

In the essense RG has ruined 2 of MS races so far without a single warning. MS ruined Senna Jr race and got a penalty right away. The later accident was labeled as "avoidable" hence the penalty. Well I fail to see how former RG stunts were unavoidable...

#20779 jj2728

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:48

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.


Now come on BRK, I would have expected more from you. It was a start line incident plain and simple. Monaco, in years past, has been notorious for that. And Schumacher is surely not on the receiving end of second rate anything. His run of bad luck has served him no good at all, but to imply that Mercedes his giving him second tier treatment is a bit shallow don't you think?


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#20780 Muz Bee

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:31

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Teflonslow fanboys.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.

This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.

#20781 KavB

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:43

This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.

Which Ferrari driver was that?

#20782 ivand911

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:18

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.

Oh, yes, now the collateral victims are at fault?? Michael have all track clear ahead of him, and suddenly RG going strongly to the left and hit him? That guy should learn to drive forward not sidewise.


#20783 BRK

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:38

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.


Only one of them ended up looking like an idiot, though. I think the trick is to gain places at the start and stay in the race without losing control, which seems to be a difficult task for all the GP2 graduates on the grid. Maybe if Grosjean had 294 starts to his name he would've got it right.

It was a start line incident plain and simple. Monaco, in years past, has been notorious for that. And Schumacher is surely not on the receiving end of second rate anything. His run of bad luck has served him no good at all, but to imply that Mercedes his giving him second tier treatment is a bit shallow don't you think?



This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.


Legitimate points of view that I would have agreed with a few races ago, I'm not so sure any more. It's logical to accord preferential treatment to his teammate who is 50 odd points ahead of him in the standings, but it's also true that Schumacher would have been closer to (or even ahead of) his teammate had he had a problem-free start to the season.

#20784 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:04

Before 2012 the pressure was on Schumacher's back to deliver. In 2012, his performances have been very good, his speed very good and his qualifying greatly improved. In short, he has raised him game considerably.

Now, it is up to Mercedes to deliver a car that is both fast AND reliable so BOTH drivers can take as much points as possible. In 2010, MS let himself down. In 2011 it was a mixture of both. In 2012 at has largely been Mercedes not giving reliable equipment to at least ONE of their drivers. 11 DNF's over 2.5 years for Schumacher is very poor indeed.

Like I keep saying, Mercedes' image suffers more than anything else; their image, brand cache, kudos and bragging rights all suffer if they can't produce reliable cars. Toyota and Honda realised they couldn't do it and left the sport in embarrasment. I hope Mercedes doesn't do the same.

Not only this, but in the eyes of many, Mercedes will be seen as the ones who let Schumacher down and in some quarters that could mean villification, especially if Schumacher starts saying things towards the end of the season about the lack of support/good equipment etc. IIRC in 2010 he came out with the statement that him and Nico didn't have equal equipment in some races and Haug had to be forced into admitting this some weeks later.

Anyway; Mercedes need to raise their game. This reminds me very much of Mclaren and the ill-fated run of bad luck with the self detonating Mercedes engines in the early 2000's.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 01 June 2012 - 09:12.


#20785 spacekid

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:56

Much has been made of Michaels bad luck, and how his Mercedes keeps failing him. I'd like to try to blow some of this talk of either sabotage or bias, or Mercedes simply doing a duff job for Michael out of the water.

In Melbourne Michaels gear box failed. We don't know the exact nature of the failure. It could have been a physical component in the box itself that had a slight manufacturing defect (this may not even be something made by Mercedes, I'm sure some parts are sourced in) - such a component could easily have been in Nico's car. The only way I can really pin the blame on Michaels team is if the failure was related to the installation of the gearbox or a mistake in its operation. I find this unlikely.

In Malaysia Mercedes gave Schumi a good car, he got tapped by another car in tricky conditions. He isn't the only one.

In China the wheel nut failed to go on properly. Lewis' team has had this problem as well. Do Mercedes use the same crew for both Michael and Nico? If so (and I think they do) it wasn't a mistake by someone working just for Michael, it could have happened to either driver. Also I'm not sure with these wheel nut problems if the mistake is made by the mechanic, or if it is an inherent design feature of how the wheel nut gun works. I remember at the time Gary Anderson mentioning that Mercedes and McLaren are using a new system of wheel nut which is faster, but where if it fails its much harder to fix. Changing a wheel in under 3 seconds is not easy and it seems the wheel nut system is one operating on the margins of reliability.

The DRS failure in Bahrain was an odd one, as we have seen this with Michaels car before. I can't think of a good reason for this.

In Spain Mercedes gave Schumi a good car. Beware inexperienced drivers with shot tyres.

In Monaco Mercedes gave Schumi the fastest car (or at worst about level with Red Bull). It seems remotely possible but very unlikely that Schumi's car failure was caused by the collision with RJ. Again not sure of the specifics, but fuel pickup maybe an electronic sensor issue? Again very difficult to know whether to pin the blame on Merc for poor installation or QC, or whether its just an unfortuate failure of 3rd party electronic part that sometimes randomly occurs.

Michael has had some bad luck, but I'm not really seeing proof of any systemic failures from Mercedes. I can see an argument that they might be exercising poor quality control, but I refuse to believe this would be particular only to Michaels equipment, or that a professional outfit would take shortcuts like this.

#20786 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:03

Michael has had some bad luck, but I'm not really seeing proof of any systemic failures from Mercedes.

Mercedes IS responsible, as a team for the whole package - car, operations (pit stop execution, blunders with fuel, tyres etc).
the fact that the fuel pump could be produced by a 3rd party yet mercedes installed it correctly so it's not their fault is not ok. they are responsible for whatever goes on the car, may it be a pump, a fuse, a spark plug or a gearbox.

they failed really really bad this year, way too many screw ups

#20787 Schumacher7

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:13

Mercedes IS responsible, as a team for the whole package - car, operations (pit stop execution, blunders with fuel, tyres etc).
the fact that the fuel pump could be produced by a 3rd party yet mercedes installed it correctly so it's not their fault is not ok. they are responsible for whatever goes on the car, may it be a pump, a fuse, a spark plug or a gearbox.

they failed really really bad this year, way too many screw ups

That's a really stupid thing to say imo, they have no way of knowing, it looks no different to any of the other identical components they've had over the years, how are they meant to know it will fail, they can't possibly, it's not their fault, you cannot blame the team for something that is effectively out of their control, sure they could have used a different part but they would have had no reason to do so as as far as the human eye could tell the part was fine. It'll come good in the end, they just need to keep at it.

#20788 spacekid

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:20

That's a really stupid thing to say imo, they have no way of knowing, it looks no different to any of the other identical components they've had over the years, how are they meant to know it will fail, they can't possibly, it's not their fault, you cannot blame the team for something that is effectively out of their control, sure they could have used a different part but they would have had no reason to do so as as far as the human eye could tell the part was fine. It'll come good in the end, they just need to keep at it.


This is exactly my point. We don't know with these parts what the expected degree of quality control is amongst teams, and whether these failures could be predicted, or are entirely random. Mercedes have screwed up if they missed something, otherwise its possible those parts could just of easily gone on Nicos car or maybe even someone elses in another team. Then it really is just bad luck.

#20789 ivand911

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:29

Fuel pickup problem can mean 100 things. From fuel filter, to pump problem, to problem in fuel tank ,to piping problem , to fuel problem. Was this new engine? I guess not, it is slower track ,so they can use some older engine. Still this engines are used for last 2-3 years, so all parts are very reliable, so for him to have "engine" problem is over the top of any bad luck.

Edited by ivand911, 01 June 2012 - 10:40.


#20790 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:07

For technical reasons this thread is closed, please contue the discussion here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168664