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#20751 Cr0aker

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 19:00

Schumacher waves to crowd

Laughed my ass off at this.

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#20752 Schumacher7

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:02

Schumacher waves to crowd

Laughed my ass off at this.

I can't see it, is it the roman salute by any chance, made me chuckle as well? :rotfl:

#20753 Sakae

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:19

What's wrong with that article?

Edd Straw is right - Michael's comeback was definitely no failure. MS showed time and again streaks of brilliance - the only difference between his first and his second career is that now Michael is not able to provide brilliance on a consistent basis.

And were he to start winning again - who knows? There is still fire in him, there is still life in the old lion.

Hmm, some of us have never doubt him, and "knew" this all along, whereas some other people... :D

#20754 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 22:18

I can't see it, is it the roman salute by any chance, made me chuckle as well? :rotfl:


You can see that salute also in German history, app. 70 years back in time - a very unfortunate photograph IMHO.
Or executed just at the right moment by the photographer....


#20755 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 22:19

Hmm, some of us have never doubt him, and "knew" this all along, whereas some other people... :D


Different lanes for different brains, Sakae.  ;)


#20756 BRK

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:30

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.

#20757 Clatter

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:34

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.


What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.

#20758 Disgrace

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:38

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.


The very essence of a racing incident. :up:

#20759 exmayol

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:47

In the essense RG has ruined 2 of MS races so far without a single warning. MS ruined Senna Jr race and got a penalty right away. The later accident was labeled as "avoidable" hence the penalty. Well I fail to see how former RG stunts were unavoidable...

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#20760 jj2728

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:48

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Alonso fans.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.


Now come on BRK, I would have expected more from you. It was a start line incident plain and simple. Monaco, in years past, has been notorious for that. And Schumacher is surely not on the receiving end of second rate anything. His run of bad luck has served him no good at all, but to imply that Mercedes his giving him second tier treatment is a bit shallow don't you think?


#20761 Muz Bee

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:31

The Michael Schumacher thread is probably not the best choice of camping site for Teflonslow fanboys.



Crazy race, thought it was going to be a lap 1 DNF with those two retards -one in the Ferrari and the rookie in the Lotus- trying to win the race at the first corner, amazing the car survived the impact. After the Raikkonen train took off it was impossible he'd have gotten anywhere near the podium (unless it had rained) , wouldn't have been happy with a points finish so the retirement wasn't a massive disappointment.

Mercedes must be awfully proud to be treating Michael as a second driver, second rate parts, second rate service and a retirement streak that reflects that. Shame they couldn't ruin his qualifying at the one track DRS isn't that important.

He's going to need a string of podiums or wins to get back in contention in the teammate battle; tough ask in a season as random and inconsistent as this one.

This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.

#20762 KavB

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 06:43

This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.

Which Ferrari driver was that?

#20763 ivand911

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:18

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.

Oh, yes, now the collateral victims are at fault?? Michael have all track clear ahead of him, and suddenly RG going strongly to the left and hit him? That guy should learn to drive forward not sidewise.


#20764 BRK

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:38

What a stupid line. You might as well say the same about MS. If he hadn't tried to gain places at the start he wouldn't have got hit.


Only one of them ended up looking like an idiot, though. I think the trick is to gain places at the start and stay in the race without losing control, which seems to be a difficult task for all the GP2 graduates on the grid. Maybe if Grosjean had 294 starts to his name he would've got it right.

It was a start line incident plain and simple. Monaco, in years past, has been notorious for that. And Schumacher is surely not on the receiving end of second rate anything. His run of bad luck has served him no good at all, but to imply that Mercedes his giving him second tier treatment is a bit shallow don't you think?



This is a really dumb post from someone who should know better. I know you're not stupid enough to try to explain how/why M-B team are giving Michael second rate equipment and service. I can understand your disappointment at opportunities lost but it is most assuredly luck. Sometimes luck is with you, sometimes against you. Michael has had plenty of good luck in the past, it all comes around over time. Once a Ferrari driver qualified on the front row almost every race of the season and never won a race, mainly a string of DNFs. Now that's bad luck.

I would point out that the act of crashing into Senna in Spain effectively wrecked TWO of his six races anyway.


Legitimate points of view that I would have agreed with a few races ago, I'm not so sure any more. It's logical to accord preferential treatment to his teammate who is 50 odd points ahead of him in the standings, but it's also true that Schumacher would have been closer to (or even ahead of) his teammate had he had a problem-free start to the season.

#20765 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:04

Before 2012 the pressure was on Schumacher's back to deliver. In 2012, his performances have been very good, his speed very good and his qualifying greatly improved. In short, he has raised him game considerably.

Now, it is up to Mercedes to deliver a car that is both fast AND reliable so BOTH drivers can take as much points as possible. In 2010, MS let himself down. In 2011 it was a mixture of both. In 2012 at has largely been Mercedes not giving reliable equipment to at least ONE of their drivers. 11 DNF's over 2.5 years for Schumacher is very poor indeed.

Like I keep saying, Mercedes' image suffers more than anything else; their image, brand cache, kudos and bragging rights all suffer if they can't produce reliable cars. Toyota and Honda realised they couldn't do it and left the sport in embarrasment. I hope Mercedes doesn't do the same.

Not only this, but in the eyes of many, Mercedes will be seen as the ones who let Schumacher down and in some quarters that could mean villification, especially if Schumacher starts saying things towards the end of the season about the lack of support/good equipment etc. IIRC in 2010 he came out with the statement that him and Nico didn't have equal equipment in some races and Haug had to be forced into admitting this some weeks later.

Anyway; Mercedes need to raise their game. This reminds me very much of Mclaren and the ill-fated run of bad luck with the self detonating Mercedes engines in the early 2000's.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 01 June 2012 - 09:12.


#20766 spacekid

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 09:56

Much has been made of Michaels bad luck, and how his Mercedes keeps failing him. I'd like to try to blow some of this talk of either sabotage or bias, or Mercedes simply doing a duff job for Michael out of the water.

In Melbourne Michaels gear box failed. We don't know the exact nature of the failure. It could have been a physical component in the box itself that had a slight manufacturing defect (this may not even be something made by Mercedes, I'm sure some parts are sourced in) - such a component could easily have been in Nico's car. The only way I can really pin the blame on Michaels team is if the failure was related to the installation of the gearbox or a mistake in its operation. I find this unlikely.

In Malaysia Mercedes gave Schumi a good car, he got tapped by another car in tricky conditions. He isn't the only one.

In China the wheel nut failed to go on properly. Lewis' team has had this problem as well. Do Mercedes use the same crew for both Michael and Nico? If so (and I think they do) it wasn't a mistake by someone working just for Michael, it could have happened to either driver. Also I'm not sure with these wheel nut problems if the mistake is made by the mechanic, or if it is an inherent design feature of how the wheel nut gun works. I remember at the time Gary Anderson mentioning that Mercedes and McLaren are using a new system of wheel nut which is faster, but where if it fails its much harder to fix. Changing a wheel in under 3 seconds is not easy and it seems the wheel nut system is one operating on the margins of reliability.

The DRS failure in Bahrain was an odd one, as we have seen this with Michaels car before. I can't think of a good reason for this.

In Spain Mercedes gave Schumi a good car. Beware inexperienced drivers with shot tyres.

In Monaco Mercedes gave Schumi the fastest car (or at worst about level with Red Bull). It seems remotely possible but very unlikely that Schumi's car failure was caused by the collision with RJ. Again not sure of the specifics, but fuel pickup maybe an electronic sensor issue? Again very difficult to know whether to pin the blame on Merc for poor installation or QC, or whether its just an unfortuate failure of 3rd party electronic part that sometimes randomly occurs.

Michael has had some bad luck, but I'm not really seeing proof of any systemic failures from Mercedes. I can see an argument that they might be exercising poor quality control, but I refuse to believe this would be particular only to Michaels equipment, or that a professional outfit would take shortcuts like this.

#20767 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:03

Michael has had some bad luck, but I'm not really seeing proof of any systemic failures from Mercedes.

Mercedes IS responsible, as a team for the whole package - car, operations (pit stop execution, blunders with fuel, tyres etc).
the fact that the fuel pump could be produced by a 3rd party yet mercedes installed it correctly so it's not their fault is not ok. they are responsible for whatever goes on the car, may it be a pump, a fuse, a spark plug or a gearbox.

they failed really really bad this year, way too many screw ups

#20768 Schumacher7

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:13

Mercedes IS responsible, as a team for the whole package - car, operations (pit stop execution, blunders with fuel, tyres etc).
the fact that the fuel pump could be produced by a 3rd party yet mercedes installed it correctly so it's not their fault is not ok. they are responsible for whatever goes on the car, may it be a pump, a fuse, a spark plug or a gearbox.

they failed really really bad this year, way too many screw ups

That's a really stupid thing to say imo, they have no way of knowing, it looks no different to any of the other identical components they've had over the years, how are they meant to know it will fail, they can't possibly, it's not their fault, you cannot blame the team for something that is effectively out of their control, sure they could have used a different part but they would have had no reason to do so as as far as the human eye could tell the part was fine. It'll come good in the end, they just need to keep at it.

#20769 spacekid

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:20

That's a really stupid thing to say imo, they have no way of knowing, it looks no different to any of the other identical components they've had over the years, how are they meant to know it will fail, they can't possibly, it's not their fault, you cannot blame the team for something that is effectively out of their control, sure they could have used a different part but they would have had no reason to do so as as far as the human eye could tell the part was fine. It'll come good in the end, they just need to keep at it.


This is exactly my point. We don't know with these parts what the expected degree of quality control is amongst teams, and whether these failures could be predicted, or are entirely random. Mercedes have screwed up if they missed something, otherwise its possible those parts could just of easily gone on Nicos car or maybe even someone elses in another team. Then it really is just bad luck.

#20770 ivand911

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:29

Fuel pickup problem can mean 100 things. From fuel filter, to pump problem, to problem in fuel tank ,to piping problem , to fuel problem. Was this new engine? I guess not, it is slower track ,so they can use some older engine. Still this engines are used for last 2-3 years, so all parts are very reliable, so for him to have "engine" problem is over the top of any bad luck.

Edited by ivand911, 01 June 2012 - 10:40.


#20771 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:07

For technical reasons this thread is closed, please contue the discussion here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168664