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#2451 Juan Kerr

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:11

The glee with which Brundle and company have for knocking MS is obvious even to people like me who have never followed MS. Many who post here seem to have the idea that other drivers should give way to their favourite driver otherwise they are rough untalented etc drivers except when your LH. Another pitlane wheel banging incident today. Jealosy is showing out in bucket loads when it comes to knocking MS :down:

I thought that too, Martin Brundle is bitterly jealous (or something?) towards Schumacher, I mean when both drivers won't give and the road runs out they usually both go off to avoid contact, that's a completely normal result. Michael Schumacher was ahead of Kubica and on the racing line unlike what Brundle said. clinging to the inside of the track is not the racing line you head into the corner from precisely where Michael was and he was ahead so it was just a case of Robert not backing off with only half a car up the inside. Robert as with many of the newer drivers have something to prove to Schumacher obviously and they're not giving an inch to him as if to make some kinda point. I'm not knocking Robert it wasn't a ridiculous move but it was a Montoya/Webber/Liuzzi/Sutil style attempt. The other incident was Massa Michael had moved once and was slowly returning to the racing line but again the driver behind didn't drop back when realising the car in front was bound to try and get somewhere back near the racing line for such a tight chicane, Felipe just clipped his front wing by centimeters, no-one couldv'e done that on purpose.
Without front wing damage at the start and a puncture later Michael could've have been amongst the RedBulls.

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#2452 scarletf12002

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:26

Jealousy has nothing to do with it. I'm a Ferrari fan, and I could never warm to Schumi, even if I could appreciate his immense driving and what he accomplished for my team.

The problem with me is that I know what its like driving with people like Schumi. I know its not quite the same, but when playing online racing games, there's certain people who are good, but resort to some nasty driving etiquette because they dont want to get passed. In a game, its annoying. In real-life, it must be absolutely infuriating(for the other drivers). I feel for the drivers that have to put up with Schumi and his dirty tactics. Stuff like that would be absolutely unforgiveable for somebody of lesser talent. And thats where he needs to watch it. He's not good enough to be forgiven for that kind of thing anymore. He looks like an overenthusiastic rookie, not a cool headed 7 time champion.



You are right, with all due respect, its not even in the same hemisphere to compare online gaming to driving for real! I thought Brundle & Co were showing bit more balance after Monaco but seems like they were just reserving their bitterness so they could really stick the boot in when it counts! Despite the frustrating race I thought that in the post race interview, Schu came across well.

#2453 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 09:30

You are right, with all due respect, its not even in the same hemisphere to compare online gaming to driving for real!

Its not too much different, really. Schumi is the only driver that I've seen that will regularly cut a chicane to stop from getting passed, and thats something you usually dont see except in video games.

Some may call that ruthlessness, or a burning desire to win - I simply call it cheating.

#2454 ausf1webber

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:23

Its not too much different, really. Schumi is the only driver that I've seen that will regularly cut a chicane to stop from getting passed, and thats something you usually dont see except in video games.

Some may call that ruthlessness, or a burning desire to win - I simply call it cheating.

Stick to computer games :stoned:

#2455 Hacklerf

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:24

I dont know why Brundle was so down on Schumacher yesterday, i thought he drove a great race, no points , ok, but his tyres were ruined, he done well i thought

#2456 Chezrome

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:32


I don't understand the anger towards Brundle in his comments about Schumacher. He never said: 'It's scandalous', 'it's an outrage', or even suggest that he did something illegal. Al I heard frequently was the word 'naughty'. Well, well, well, if you can't use that word without being bashed.

BTW: I totally agree with Brundle's main point: if you miss the chicane in a brake-fight, you should concede the position. Hulkenburg almost took out Sutil twice because he could not defend in a normal way, just kept jumping the chicane.

#2457 Dragonfly

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 10:33

I dont know why Brundle was so down on Schumacher yesterday, i thought he drove a great race, no points , ok, but his tyres were ruined, he done well i thought

There is a saying: "Those who have talent, become writers. Those who don't, become critics."

#2458 Sakae

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 11:14

I dont know why Brundle was so down on Schumacher yesterday, i thought he drove a great race, no points , ok, but his tyres were ruined, he done well i thought

Brundle does it for years, which is why I thought his inability to render impartial comments should disqualify him from commenting on public (and international) broadcasts. Man can make a mistake; that's not a crime, but Brundle usually starts talking first instance he gets, without considering situations as a whole, with all facts before him.

#2459 Fortymark

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 11:47

BTW: I totally agree with Brundle's main point: if you miss the chicane in a brake-fight, you should concede the position. Hulkenburg almost took out Sutil twice because he could not defend in a normal way, just kept jumping the chicane.


I think it was Petrov vs Barrichello, anyway it involved Petrov. He missed the chicane but gave the position
to Barrichello. That was nice to see :up:

Edit: This was just an example on how you should race imo.
It had nothing to do with Brundles comments

Edited by Fortymark, 14 June 2010 - 11:49.


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#2460 darklightx

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 11:54

Simple answer. Tyres. He needs to learn how to get the most from the current tyres without using them up excessively. He has frankly overcome the return jitters as we see by the confidence he now has to go wheel to wheel with faster cars and his performance when he does get them working.

His starts/initial first corners have recently been the best of anyone on the grid, and when everything is working he is in fact VERY fast. But he keeps getting in a setup mess, especially when the tyres are being unpredictable.

The current tyres can be unpredicable, as we see all over the place, but other teams and drivers are on top of it, so its not an excuse, its HIS issue to resolve. Sure it would help if the team were more on top of that too, but his teammate is less inconsistent in this area so its up to him to overcome it.



Schumacher fans are living in denial. Getting used to the tyres is just an excuse for a driver who no longer has it. He is not a rookie and even with 3 years away he would not need this long to adapt and if you look objectively his pace has not improved since the first race. He is still a step behind Rosberg most of the time and its not getting better despite all the hype that it is. He has not looked VERY fast once this season. When did you ever see Michael complaining about setup problems and being half a second of his team mate, in his prime? barely ever in 15 years but now its regular, yet you still think he is not past it? That makes no sense. Compared to his previous driving standard he is now a midfield driver, who getting dominated by rosberg almost as much as nakajima was.

The fact that Michael has these issues to resolve prove he is not the same driver because the old michael would never have had them in the first place. He no longer the speed he did, and without that hes nothing special.

#2461 ivand911

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:08

Are you fine now, thank you for sharing. Bye.

#2462 as65p

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:20

I'm not his fan- still I loved the way he drove in Canada. I loved his determination- it was the Old Schumi! Drivers who "give way" to passing are not racing drivers - they should find another job at public transportation :smoking:


It was the old Schumi - with vital ingredients missing. Of course the agression is still there (people don't automatically become mellow with age), and his experience is very valuable, always. But the main thing, relentless speed, seems to have degraded a bit. Which turns him into a vicious circle, because he will find himself in battle more often, which will lead to more controversial situations.

I reckon he fought very clean in China (was surprised by it even), but not so yesterday. One explanation would be that he's beginning to feel frustration. I don't for a second believe he is happy and calm with how the season went so far, that would be totally out of character.

#2463 zawisza

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:27

I thought that too, Martin Brundle is bitterly jealous (or something?) towards Schumacher, I mean when both drivers won't give and the road runs out they usually both go off to avoid contact, that's a completely normal result. Michael Schumacher was ahead of Kubica and on the racing line unlike what Brundle said. clinging to the inside of the track is not the racing line you head into the corner from precisely where Michael was and he was ahead so it was just a case of Robert not backing off with only half a car up the inside. Robert as with many of the newer drivers have something to prove to Schumacher obviously and they're not giving an inch to him as if to make some kinda point. I'm not knocking Robert it wasn't a ridiculous move but it was a Montoya/Webber/Liuzzi/Sutil style attempt. The other incident was Massa Michael had moved once and was slowly returning to the racing line but again the driver behind didn't drop back when realising the car in front was bound to try and get somewhere back near the racing line for such a tight chicane, Felipe just clipped his front wing by centimeters, no-one couldv'e done that on purpose.
Without front wing damage at the start and a puncture later Michael could've have been amongst the RedBulls.


Oh, yea...he was ahead and on the racing line...maybe because a moment earlier he forced Kubica off that line onto the grass. Anyway neither Michael nor Kubica blame each other after the incident unlike their fans unfortunately...me including :p

Edited by zawisza, 14 June 2010 - 12:28.


#2464 Jomyboy

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 12:32

I have never seen anyone keeping his position down from the outside line into turn 4 at montreal. That was the move of the race I think. Come to think of it, Schumacher is slowly gelling back into his ownself. If only they could sort out the qualifying troubles and get better straight line speed :( Wishful Thinking

Edited by Jomyboy, 14 June 2010 - 12:33.


#2465 as65p

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 13:18

I wonder how long until everyone accepts that MS will NOT be his old self again, ever.

Time waits for noone. All he can hope for is 1 or 2 races were everything falls into place for him, once up front I think he's still capable of getting the job done.

But mounting a season long WDC challenge I just can't see it happen. Even with a dominant car, he would evidently need someone distinctively worse than Rosberg to come out on top.

#2466 Yorkie

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 13:38

Looking now to yesterday race, I feel well like Michael fan. He made again the race, they show him more than the leaders. Who really won? He still have what it takes. He made show for his fans and trolls. We are all happy. Investors are also happy, they get a lot of TV time. That is important. Looking forward to the next show.

That was for the comedy out takes

#2467 man

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 13:41

What are the odds that he and Mercedes will call an end to their partnership before next season?

He probably deserves a seat on the grid but his fans and critics expect far too much of him. Circumstances have changed, his competitors have changed, standards have changed therefore he will never be anything more than a decent-ish midfield driver from now on.

He has the same jaded look on track of Rene Arnoux in 1989 and Alan Jones in 1986. The novelty factor for Mercedes having M Schumacher drive for them has worn out or certainly will wear out pretty damn quickly at this rate.

#2468 skinnyman

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 14:24

"You are only as good as your last race"

Fans are plain stupid, everything went wrong on one weekend and they instantly forget great drives just weeks ago :stoned:

#2469 Sakae

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 14:34

I thought that too, Martin Brundle is bitterly jealous (or something?) towards Schumacher, I mean when both drivers won't give and the road runs out they usually both go off to avoid contact, that's a completely normal result. Michael Schumacher was ahead of Kubica and on the racing line unlike what Brundle said. clinging to the inside of the track is not the racing line you head into the corner from precisely where Michael was and he was ahead so it was just a case of Robert not backing off with only half a car up the inside. Robert as with many of the newer drivers have something to prove to Schumacher obviously and they're not giving an inch to him as if to make some kinda point. I'm not knocking Robert it wasn't a ridiculous move but it was a Montoya/Webber/Liuzzi/Sutil style attempt. The other incident was Massa Michael had moved once and was slowly returning to the racing line but again the driver behind didn't drop back when realising the car in front was bound to try and get somewhere back near the racing line for such a tight chicane, Felipe just clipped his front wing by centimeters, no-one couldv'e done that on purpose.
Without front wing damage at the start and a puncture later Michael could've have been amongst the RedBulls.



Brawn had it right, paraphrasing; this is what you get when you mix up or start with mid-pack (people).

#2470 grunge

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 14:53

Let's say it like this.

I thought Felipe Massa would be the last driver on the face of the earth to be almost pushed off the track by Michael Schumacher. THE LAST DRIVER EVER!

Guess I was wrong about that one as well.

that was exactly the thing i was thinking when the incident happened :lol:



#2471 arknor

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 15:26

I don't understand the anger towards Brundle in his comments about Schumacher. He never said: 'It's scandalous', 'it's an outrage', or even suggest that he did something illegal. Al I heard frequently was the word 'naughty'. Well, well, well, if you can't use that word without being bashed.

BTW: I totally agree with Brundle's main point: if you miss the chicane in a brake-fight, you should concede the position. Hulkenburg almost took out Sutil twice because he could not defend in a normal way, just kept jumping the chicane.

did you watch the f1 forum after? brundle pretty much called schumacher a cheat and then did you hear what jake said at the end!

doesnt get much worse than that and in the race brundle said his car was like a donkey kicking its back legs at anyone who got near hes never been so hard on anyone else hamilton and button get away with murder (well maybe not so much button as hes generally very respectful of anyone on the track)

#2472 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 15:29

Stick to computer games :stoned:

Am I wrong? Or do you just not like what I'm saying ?

#2473 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 15:31

"You are only as good as your last race"

Fans are plain stupid, everything went wrong on one weekend and they instantly forget great drives just weeks ago :stoned:

I dont remember Schumacher having any 'great' drives this year. He's gone from mediocre to decent, but he's still a ways off being 'impressive'.

#2474 CSquared

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 16:12

What are the odds that he and Mercedes will call an end to their partnership before next season?

Schumacher now looking towards 2011
I'm not aware of any indication from anyone involved that the odds that he'll leave before next season are anything other than 0. Unless you've read something I haven't?


#2475 cheapracer

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 16:36

What do the stats from when MS had the best car by far have to do with his driving level today? All his previous achievements are irrelevant, what counts is what happening this year and MS is quite frankly amusing me quite a lot this year.

In any case, who mentioned points? Rosberg has been the clearly faster driver in most races, despite what points say.



Of which years did MS have the best car out of his 7 WDC's, 3 x 2nd WDC and 3 x 3rd WDC?

Ask any team which they will prefer, fast or points? I'm telling you every one of them will say points.




#2476 aditya-now

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 16:54

Well I was warming to Schumacher a bit, but I think today proved that he's just as dirty as he was before, just without the immense talent that he used to have.

If he can quit the dirty antics, I'll be happy to have him on the field, no matter how much I dislike him as a sportsman, but at this rate, I'm just eager for him to retire again.

Buemi overtaking him was one of the highlights of the race for me!


Could not put it in better words.

Schumi, please leave the sport alone. Driving like an obstacle car, you have nothing to do in the field and with the field. Today´s generation of drivers is past you!


#2477 I_hate_chicanes

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:02

Pedro De la Rosa last raced in 2006 and yet his performance in qualifying and race is better vis a vis his team mate than Schumacher's

#2478 cheapracer

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:05

Could not put it in better words.

Schumi, please leave the sport alone. Driving like an obstacle car, you have nothing to do in the field and with the field. Today´s generation of drivers is past you!


Yes you could, I've seen you. :rolleyes:

Oh and apparently for his worst result this year 2/3rds of "Today´s generation of drivers is past you" were behind him. You also forgot that at the last race in Turkey all but one of the "Today´s generation of drivers is past you" was behind him.

#2479 scarletf12002

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:07

has any driver actually complained about ms driving in montreal?

kubica didnt, did massa?


Has any one got any follow up on this? BTW don't you think its fascinating to see Ferrari now protesting at every opportunity against Schumacher, is it way to distance themselves to create their own legacy with out him? Love hurts as they say....

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#2480 britishtrident

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:07

I was struck by the warmth of the congratulations Norbert gave the McLaren guys, he must be wishing he had managed to keep Button in the Mercedes works team.

Interesting it appears the Massa-Schumacher incident was investigated by the stewards as a result of request from the Maranello team --- how times change.

#2481 scarletf12002

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:11

Pedro De la Rosa last raced in 2006 and yet his performance in qualifying and race is better vis a vis his team mate than Schumacher's



You are kidding aren't you?

#2482 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:16

Today´s generation of drivers is past you!


Kubica and Massa might disagree with you. :rotfl:


Edited by Diablobb81, 14 June 2010 - 17:16.


#2483 cobart1

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 17:34

Shumi Got an email from the Autobahnpoliz. They are very proud of him! Another weekend driving a very fast car and no points!

#2484 Buttoneer

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 18:15

Please stop discussing other posters.

If another poster annoys you, but isn't breaking rules, put them on ignore.
If another poster is trolling, or otherwise breaking the rules, report their posts and we will deal with them. We cannot vet every post in all threads.
Please refrain from calling each other names. Even 'hater' and 'fanboy' are really not helpful.

#2485 Juan Kerr

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 19:58

I had quite a sense of frustration at Michael's race, if he drove rubbish then it wouldn't be an issue but there was another potential big result in there from a very low grid position, he was flying up onto the back of Button in the early stages too. Nevermind anyway there's nothing gonna come out of this year for him but I bet he can't wait until next year. There's no guarantee that Haug is the answer but I trust Ross Brawn, you cannot deny the guys fantastic Chess Brain.

#2486 scarletf12002

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 21:15

Did anyone read the "wonderful" column DC wrote in The Telegraph, comparing Michael Schumacher's comeback to that of Tiger Woods? Sorry but taking a 2 month extension on vacation because you were too humiliated to play golf is not what I would consider a comeback! Gossip and criticism probably sells more newspapers than praise but really comparing Schumacher to Woods is below the belt, in every sense of the phrase! I guess he did stick up for him a bit towards the end, but still added fuel to a fire that didn't need it!

http://www.telegraph...ormer-self.html

#2487 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 21:51

overall i don't think he says anything wrong.


#2488 valachus

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 22:18

Did anyone read the "wonderful" column DC wrote in The Telegraph, comparing Michael Schumacher's comeback to that of Tiger Woods? Sorry but taking a 2 month extension on vacation because you were too humiliated to play golf is not what I would consider a comeback! Gossip and criticism probably sells more newspapers than praise but really comparing Schumacher to Woods is below the belt, in every sense of the phrase! I guess he did stick up for him a bit towards the end, but still added fuel to a fire that didn't need it!

http://www.telegraph...ormer-self.html


Quoting from Ole Greybeard: "He pitted three times and was still lapping over 4 seconds off the pace in his final stint. He just could not get his tyres working and in my view resorted to some pretty questionable racing in an effort to hold position. ...What is wrong with him? I don’t know but something is clearly missing."
It's possible that Coulthard is either going senile, or has a deteriorating eyesight, or both. Smack down in the middle of the column is a photo of Schumacher's car, clearly missing a quarter of the front wing. It was left unrepaired until the end of the race (some guy said he was at the race and damage occured around the 10th lap of the race). As for getting the tyres to work, maybe DC is angling for a job with Mercedes and is trying to flatter Ross Brawn, but getting soft tyres to work for 37 laps was something no other sane team principal put his driver to task in Canada. DC would undoubtedly fit right on with the team, as it appears right now to be a complete royal mess.

#2489 baddog

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 22:59

To suggest Michael was lapping over 4 seconds a lap off the pace is just retarded. He was lapping at a very good pace for the first 15 laps of his last stint, only once the tyres were totally shot and he was desperately trying to even stay on track AND keep cars behind him then he went that slow, and then only during a couple of laps. I dare to predict that one DC would have been in a wall long before that even before he entered his clown-years.

#2490 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:31

I dare to predict that one DC would have been in a wall long before that

To suggest that, and I quote you, is retarded.

#2491 baddog

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:41

To suggest that, and I quote you, is retarded.

No it is speculative and insulting. The difference between my insulting comments and davids is that noone knows if the mine are true whereas what he said is flatly untrue.

#2492 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 01:43

No it is speculative and insulting. The difference between my insulting comments and davids is that noone knows if the mine are true whereas what he said is flatly untrue.

There was no need to add that part in your post though. It dismissed every bit of credibility your post had and that is a shame.

#2493 baddog

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 02:42

There was no need to add that part in your post though. It dismissed every bit of credibility your post had and that is a shame.

It was INTENDED to counterpoint the surrealism of the underlying metaphor.

#2494 Augurk

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:10

Whilst I agree the column by DC lacks any sanity in that regard and is missing a lot of the obvious evidence to the reason of the lacklustre performance, however let's all remember that this is the Daily Telegraph and his columns go through an editor that aims at selling newspapers, before they actually appear in the paper.



#2495 d246

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:34

I don't really disagree with much of what the column states. Sloppy race by MS with flashes of speed and cynical moves in equal measure which all came to nothing in the end.

#2496 aditya-now

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:43

I don't really disagree with much of what the column states. Sloppy race by MS with flashes of speed and cynical moves in equal measure which all came to nothing in the end.


+ 1 :up:

Sadly. The long and slow demise of an F1 legend.


#2497 Augurk

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:46

So you guys agree that even though he pitted 3 times he was lapping 4 seconds off the pace?

Perhaps you should take a look at the timing chart. :)

How can anyone have anything but respect for the guy for working 37 laps on the supersofts, a tire that was disposed of by all other teams in 12-15 laps.

Seriously.

#2498 ivand911

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 07:58

It is so quiet here when Michael is doing better. He broke his FW in first lap. The problem is if he can still change manually angle of the front wing. Also tires didn't help. About BBC commentary, I don't think you are good commentator if you a saying wrong things. Making mistakes with drivers, facts. I think it is easy to make good commentary than driving a F1 car. But this is hard for some commentators of BBC. What is your job, look the screen like all of us and don't make stupid mistakes(there is live timing if they don't know). I hear many incorrect things in their commentary, forgetting that driver was already changing his tire once(in 14 lap , B. say after 14 laps with primes he is doing good lap times, when R. changed his soft tires in 6 lap and was now with prime tire for 7 laps). Or there was problem with 11 and 17 numbers(by memory) , and he say"Ooo Michael will be investigated", First learn drivers numbers Dude. If you are doing so bad job how you can criticize drivers. I don't know. They need first to improve, then see others.

Edited by ivand911, 17 June 2010 - 08:04.


#2499 Arsenic

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:14

It is so quiet here when Michael is doing better...


After Spain GP it was not quiet. There was a hysteria about upgrades being made to suit Schumacher and not Rosberg :lol: Now back to antischumacher propoganda like it was after China GP :drunk:

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#2500 britishtrident

britishtrident
  • Member

  • 1,954 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 17 June 2010 - 08:17

So you guys agree that even though he pitted 3 times he was lapping 4 seconds off the pace?

Perhaps you should take a look at the timing chart. :)

How can anyone have anything but respect for the guy for working 37 laps on the supersofts, a tire that was disposed of by all other teams in 12-15 laps.

Seriously.


Seriously funny -- I love irony :clap:

As Nick Fry has now made a statement expressing his confidence in MS I think we can assume the unless former mulit WDC improves dramatically will be gone from Mercedes at the end of the season perhaps even before.