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Michael Schumacher (merged)


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#2651 mkoscevic

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:03

I'm still think Schumi need a new race engineer. It's clear they don't understand each other.


There's quite a few people there who deal with in-race data analysis and decision making. You can't point it all on Shovlin.

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#2652 Scotracer

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:04

Michael had a great start and drove well in the last stint of the race...but his strategy buggered his race up again! He needs a new strategist or engineer....or something! The Merc team just doesn't understand this 'racing' business.

#2653 Tarzaan

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:09

There's quite a few people there who deal with in-race data analysis and decision making. You can't point it all on Shovlin.



But he lead MS's crew. If there are week parts, his job is to solve the problem.

#2654 carbonfibre

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:19

So far it's clear that Schumacher hasn't lost anything racing craft wise. He again made a great first lap and gained 4 places only to see his work being screwed over again by a strange pits decision.

Im pretty sure Michael will slam his fist on the table tonight and demand better work

#2655 Diablobb81

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:22

Im pretty sure Michael will slam his fist on the table tonight and demand better work


On RTL they said that Schumi made no press statements and went straight to a heated debrief with Merc.


#2656 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:23

Expecting good results from debrief.

#2657 Herth

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:24

Another great start indeed and it looked like he could have done better than Kobayashi since he was in front of him..
It was a disastrous call to have him pit when he did.. they should have let him out and they would probably be able to pit him around lap 45 to switch to the softs..

#2658 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:27

Why they change his tactic? He just needed to pit for softs 5-6 laps from the end like Koba. 5th-6th place was his. He for sure could be faster than Koba and leave him behind.

#2659 primer

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 14:28

There's quite a few people there who deal with in-race data analysis and decision making. You can't point it all on Shovlin.

Who's the pointman? Who makes the call? Buck has to stop somewhere, this 'collective responsibility' BS only enourages more incompetence. :down:


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#2660 BRK

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 18:26

Great start and a great race ruined once again. A solid points finish was definitely on the cards. As usual.

Like I said,however,when you're trying this hard (team + driver),success is bound to come at some point. Second race that he's been as high up as third,merely a hint of what's to come.

#2661 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 18:39

I am still looking for one answer: Why they pit him when he was one hard tires? Why? Tires that last easily 50 laps. Or they forget he was on hard tyres and on the right strategy according situation.

Edited by ivand911, 27 June 2010 - 18:44.


#2662 Rurouni

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 18:52

I am still looking for one answer: Why they pit him when he was one hard tires? Why? Tires that last easily 50 laps. Or they forget he was on hard tyres and on the right strategy according situation.


Because they predict that the option tyre would hold up for the remainder of the race. What they don't predict is that at the pit exit, they were shown the red light which according to Brawn is wrong.

http://www.f1fanatic...fety-car-rules/

#2663 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:03

Still don't see the point, according to f1fanatic ,he could come out 16sec. behind Koba ,and other 8-9 cars could pass him? He could out 11-12th? Staying out on hards could give him points like Koba(with no danger for his race), going in to the pit he is 11-12? Which is best?

#2664 arknor

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:05

Because they predict that the option tyre would hold up for the remainder of the race. What they don't predict is that at the pit exit, they were shown the red light which according to Brawn is wrong.

http://www.f1fanatic...fety-car-rules/

but in qualifying and on the test days everyone was getting almost identicle times on the hard tyres....

the soft tyres werent miles better here it was a stupid call

#2665 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:17

Michael lose 80 sec in the box and he finished 49 sec from the leader. Take 42 sec for the last two stops and he could finished 7 sec. behind the leader.

#2666 Sof1

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:25

Race Fastest laps:

1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1′38.766
2 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1′38.968 + 0.202

He deserved a podium finish!

#2667 RedBaron

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:28

Race Fastest laps:

1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1′38.766
2 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1′38.968 + 0.202

He deserved a podium finish!



He did have much fresher rubber at that point. He defiantly improved his pace from qualifying though.

He is a champion and apart from the odd race this season because he's on a comeback and rusty, it shows that he is a champion.

#2668 ivand911

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:30

Any suggestions what will MGP do next time to destroy Michael race? They will make him stop 4 times? Or they will tell him that in the race he need to drive original Silverstone circuit? Or they will tell him that he need to refuel?

#2669 rog

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:37

Michael lose 80 sec in the box and he finished 49 sec from the leader. Take 42 sec for the last two stops and he could finished 7 sec. behind the leader.




You should consider the SC where MS was able to reduce his gap after his first pit stop and also consider the fact that he had a tyre advantage and clean air later in the race. So it doesn't work this way you described here.

#2670 Sof1

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:37

Any suggestions what will MGP do next time to destroy Michael race? They will make him stop 4 times? Or they will tell him that in the race he need to drive original Silverstone circuit? Or they will tell him that he need to refuel?


I think each race they are adding one extra pit stop to Michael's race! :rotfl:


#2671 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:39

He did have much fresher rubber at that point. He defiantly improved his pace from qualifying though.

He is a champion and apart from the odd race this season because he's on a comeback and rusty, it shows that he is a champion.


Indeed, it shows that the speed is still very much there and the sparkle is coming back. All that is needed now is some good luck. I have a feeling that in Silverstone he will shine.

#2672 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:43

Where are all the haters who were out in such force over the last two weeks? It's gone strangely quiet......

It's clear that while Schumacher still isn't fully up to speed, the race craft is getting better, the speed is getting there and the sparkle is getting there too. Some luck is needed and I think people's perception of his comeback will force alot of people to eat their words. I just hope they (Mercedes and Schumacher) can salvage something out of this poor poor season.

9 races

1 DNF
2 poor races with poor race strategy
1 penalty in Monaco

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 27 June 2010 - 22:55.


#2673 Sof1

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:45

Indeed, it shows that the speed is still very much there and the sparkle is coming back. All that is needed now is some good luck. I have a feeling that in Silverstone he will shine.



Maybe Silverstone would be the best place to shine again just so the Brit haters, Coulthard and friends, would STFU once and for all.

#2674 RedBaron

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 19:56

Maybe Silverstone would be the best place to shine again just so the Brit haters, Coulthard and friends, would STFU once and for all.


Coulthard actually, in my opinion has been fairly accommodating on Schumacher's return and performance in terms of criticism.

#2675 eoin

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:05

Maybe Silverstone would be the best place to shine again just so the Brit haters, Coulthard and friends, would STFU once and for all.


If Schumacher did well in Silverstone it would no doubt be down to the longer wheelbase and random updates that were designed to help Schumacher and hinder Rosberg!

#2676 baddog

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:11

Really good performance from Michael here. Nothing he could do about the wierd combination of safety car shenannigans and extra pitstops, but the speed was very evident.

If they can work out their issues with tyres we are going to start seeing two mercedes in regular top 6 positions, Im telling you

#2677 RedBaron

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:12

Did you know Schumacher hasn't finished outside the top 10 so many times in one season during his whole Formula 1 career?

http://en.wikipedia....ula_One_results

I found this chart quite interesting, this might be his worst season in Formula 1 ever, so far of course it's not even half way through 2010 yet!

#2678 man

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:26

Some pretty low expectations here. What exactly was impressive about his drive? Making the second fastest lap of the race with a light fuel load and new tyres when everybody had old ones? A good race start? Being beaten by Rosberg in qualifying and the race yet again? It wasn't a bad drive but it certainly was nothing to write home about or wetting your pants over which appears to be the case here. :-)

#2679 Sof1

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:27

Did you know Schumacher hasn't finished outside the top 10 so many times in one season during his whole Formula 1 career?


That'll make his return to winning much sweeter.

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#2680 RedBaron

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:33

Some pretty low expectations here. What exactly was impressive about his drive? Making the second fastest lap of the race with a light fuel load and new tyres when everybody had old ones? A good race start? Being beaten by Rosberg in qualifying and the race yet again? It wasn't a bad drive but it certainly was nothing to write home about or wetting your pants over which appears to be the case here. :-)


Yeh Rosberg beat Schumacher because the young German out raced his weary old countryman, you idiot. Schumacher showed good pace - disregarding that final run - he improved on his pace from the rest of the weekend and qualifying, drove round brake problems that he and his team-mate suffered from and made a tremendous start, yet again. That's what was impressive in comparison to his team-mate who he has been judged on since day 1 of 2010.

That'll make his return to winning much sweeter.


Completely, it's a transition period but I still found it interesting with how it compared to all other of his seasons.

#2681 Scotracer

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 20:48

Posted Image

Quite a telling image.

And here's the one from Canada:

Posted Image

5 place gain on Lap 1 in Canada and 4 in Spain...Michael still has the skillz in the races. Just need to sort Qualifying.

#2682 Zdeus

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 21:18

The mind(s) on the Mercedes pit wall can be seen as stock traders who 1st try to get it right only to be caught out , then panic sets in and to make up for the 1st mistake they make desperate follow on mistakes to blow the situation out of control - Thats Mercedes GP for you !

I mean - 1st mistake was not pitting during the SC period -> realized that mistake so to over-correct you pit, get caught out - > make another mistake to go frm softs to hards again...and again make a mistake to go back on softs later !! The mind of that man/men who were making this string of decisions is a scary mind to live in !

On the other hand - Sauber - good job !

Edited by Ravindra Nagpurkar, 27 June 2010 - 21:26.


#2683 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 22:57

If Schumacher did well in Silverstone it would no doubt be down to the longer wheelbase and random updates that were designed to help Schumacher and hinder Rosberg!


Ok, so why was Rosberg better and faster in the longer wheel based designed-for-Schumacher Mercedes in Canada and Valencia then?

Is the car designed for Schumacher or isn't it?

#2684 aditya-now

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 23:13

Really good performance from Michael here. Nothing he could do about the wierd combination of safety car shenannigans and extra pitstops, but the speed was very evident.

If they can work out their issues with tyres we are going to start seeing two mercedes in regular top 6 positions, Im telling you


Wow, baddog!

I never thought I´d see the day when Michael Schumacher finishing in lowly 16th place would earn him a "really good performance from Michael here" comment.

Are you sure you are not being cynical?


 ;)



#2685 baddog

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 00:34

Wow, baddog!

I never thought I´d see the day when Michael Schumacher finishing in lowly 16th place would earn him a "really good performance from Michael here" comment.

Are you sure you are not being cynical?


;)


Funny ;)

But what is your opinion of Michaels performance as a driver on sunday? I think he drove well enough that he should clearly have been in the top 6. In that car this weekend that would have been a great achievement, do you not think?

#2686 korzeniow

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:17

Funny ;)

But what is your opinion of Michaels performance as a driver on sunday? I think he drove well enough that he should clearly have been in the top 6. In that car this weekend that would have been a great achievement, do you not think?


Only with luckly SC. Without it Schumi wouldn't had a chance for 6th, therefore I don't see him fighting for top6 on regular basis as you described it.

#2687 cheapracer

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:35

Be it MS or other I have complained about the incredibly ridiculous situation where a car can be stopped on purpose during a race ie; red lights in pits.

Couldn't believe it many years ago when I first saw it happen at Bathurst and to this day can't understand it when NASCAR and INDY can run it so fairly and smoothly in the same situation forever.

What should be a great tactical entertainment for fans is just a farce - is the FIA too proud to 'lower themselves' to follow NASCAR examples, is that what it comes down to?

I feel very bad for MS as I have for any other driver previously in that same situation - combined with the poor safety car deployment, Hamilton's penalty which was correct but should never have happened and the continuous mess that F1 has recently become with the way it's run over the last few years I am losing my interest in it.

#2688 baddog

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:13

Only with luckly SC. Without it Schumi wouldn't had a chance for 6th, therefore I don't see him fighting for top6 on regular basis as you described it.


Might have needed a good run for 6 (safety car luck could have given him much more), but he should have been very definitely in the top 8.

#2689 aditya-now

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 04:44

Funny ;)

But what is your opinion of Michaels performance as a driver on sunday? I think he drove well enough that he should clearly have been in the top 6. In that car this weekend that would have been a great achievement, do you not think?


No question about it, he drove well. I thought something special would happen - I could not understand how he still went to change tyres - if we look at Kamui, Schumi could have done the same.
Which brings me to some of these awkward strategy calls of Mercedes GP/Schumi lately. I have no idea how they can do this to Schumi, and also, why Schumi has no authority to make these strategy calls for himself.

We have to look no further than to Jenson Button to see that indeed the driver can make a difference by making tyre calls himself - so how is it that in the case of Schumi such mistakes happen?

#2690 RedBaron

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 06:14

Ok, so why was Rosberg better and faster in the longer wheel based designed-for-Schumacher Mercedes in Canada and Valencia then?

Is the car designed for Schumacher or isn't it?


eoin wasn't being serious. He was saying if Schumacher does switch it up again, that will be a certain group of peoples response.

#2691 as65p

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:29

Where are all the haters who were out in such force over the last two weeks? It's gone strangely quiet......


Maybe some just don't see the point in endlessly knocking someone already down.

OTOH with his fans invariably declaring him the man of the race no matter what, it can be very tempting at times.



#2692 ivand911

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:32

What was the point changing hard tires in lap 11 ,to put softs and to drive on them 46 laps? Please, get Sauber strategist in the team. All fans when see him getting in the box were, WTF? MGP is trying really hard to destroy all Michael races. Michael is experiment mouse for them. They even didn't use softs in Q2, but was ready to try them for 46 laps in the race.

Edited by ivand911, 28 June 2010 - 07:41.


#2693 RedBaron

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 07:40

Maybe some just don't see the point in endlessly knocking someone already down.

OTOH with his fans invariably declaring him the man of the race no matter what, it can be very tempting at times.


Saying his performance was better than where he finished and that it was an improvement (performance wise) on how the weekend looked to be panning out after qualifying, that is everyone declaring him the man of the race? Interesting theory.

The whole bunch of you anti-Schumacher's are just despairing. Sure the results haven't come yet but you know things are just on the horizon and that poor luck has been the only spanner in the works. You cannot handle the Schumacher name being back near the top, you thought it was all over when 2006 drew to a close. If anything you lot are the ones down, bashing back at you is like flogging a dead horse, you've got nothing left and you had very little to begin with.

#2694 TURU

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:00

The whole bunch of you anti-Schumacher's are just despairing. Sure the results haven't come yet but you know things are just on the horizon and that poor luck has been the only spanner in the works. You cannot handle the Schumacher name being back near the top, you thought it was all over when 2006 drew to a close. If anything you lot are the ones down, bashing back at you is like flogging a dead horse, you've got nothing left and you had very little to begin with.


What ?? Near the top ??!! In which universe do you exist ?? :rotfl: . Both Schumacher and Mercedes GP are the biggest dissappointment of the season so far and nothing can change it. But ok, lets leave behind what's behind.

You say that "things are just on the horizon and only bad luck hindered their efforts". I must strongly dissagree. I can see nothing good for them on the horizon. They can't develop the car. Only thing they can do so far is making silly excuses and others doesn't sleep. Renault is already faster and you have to watch your back, because Williams and Force India are not so far behind. And now about MSC. In my opinion, he is getting worse and worse with every race this season. I don't know how anyone can describe his Valencia weekend as good. It was a nightmare! - he was nearly eliminated in Q1 by much slower cars.

#2695 ivand911

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:10

I remember drivers who are in front now ,eliminated in Q1 this year? What this mean? You need to watch F1 closely.

#2696 TURU

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:16

I remember drivers who are in front now ,eliminated in Q1 this year? What this mean? You need to watch F1 closely.


MSC was 18th for the most of the session in Q1 (and as I suppose You know that this means being eliminated/not-promoted to Q2) and escaped with his last attempt. This is what I meant by saying "nearly got eliminated". And why this "You need to watch F1 closely" nonsense :rolleyes: . You should better find some logical argument to defend MSC.

#2697 RedBaron

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:16

What ?? Near the top ??!! In which universe do you exist ?? :rotfl: . Both Schumacher and Mercedes GP are the biggest dissappointment of the season so far and nothing can change it. But ok, lets leave behind what's behind.


haha, you seriously think Mercedes can't run up 4th 5th 6th at all this season? Or even snatch the odd podium. What universe do you live in? :rotfl:

#2698 mani1

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:18

. In my opinion, he is getting worse and worse with every race this season. I don't know how anyone can describe his Valencia weekend as good. It was a nightmare! - he was nearly eliminated in Q1 by much slower cars.


Schmacher

1)Set the second faster lap of the GP
2)Gained highest no. of places at the start
3)Was well set for a top 6 position, had there been no poor strategy work by MGP
4)Was faster throughout the race compared to his team mate

If this according is a sign of Schumacher getting worse and worse, then you need not be on F1 forums. A psychiatrist probably would be a better option.


#2699 RedBaron

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:19

This is what I meant by saying "nearly got eliminated".


You're the one who needs to get clarity on the words near and nearly. haha hilariously ironic to see you forcing that across. Regarding my last post and you're ludicrous response to thinking Mercedes can't grab solid points.

Near the top doesn't mean at the top battling for wins, near the top means near it. That is what's meant by "near the top".

Edited by RedBaron, 28 June 2010 - 08:20.


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#2700 TURU

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:21

haha, you seriously think Mercedes can't run up 4th 5th 6th at all this season? Or even snatch the odd podium. What universe do you live in? :rotfl:


Yes they can or rather could run up 4th, 5th or 6th this season. Rosberg was even able to be on podium. But it was at the beginning of the season. Now they are nowhere near podium, because they CAN'T develop the car. Their technical stuff is rubbi..... Honda :). Back to MSC - as you can see, even when Mercedes was capable of fighting for so called big points, Michael Schumacher was not.